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#linode IRC Logs for 2015-03-16

---Logopened Mon Mar 16 00:00:39 2015
---Daychanged Mon Mar 16 2015
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00:01<virtual>Odd. I've rarely had questions/queries from (I suppose, technical) users about what the time actually is, on a maintenance I might perform. I use ISO 8601 format.
00:02<virtual>oh, not truly ISO. I add 'UTC' at the end.
00:04<Peng>Am I being an elitist nerd for reading that forum person's post as, "It's your fault I don't know unambiguous international standard time and think the only unambiguous time format is my personal version of nonstandard ambiguous American time"?
00:05<virtual>No, you're being sensible.
00:05<virtual>Perhaps 'yes and no'.
00:06<virtual>btw, that thread is great. :)
00:06<virtual>"how manydays are in 2 weeks moron?"
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00:16<Eugene>I'm amazed people like that can use computers
00:20<Cromulent>Peng: the forums have always been a gold mine of stupidity
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00:21<Cromulent>I remember posting in the misc forum (or whatever it is called these days) and no one would believe me that the germans were the first nation to actually have jet fighters in operational service...
00:22<Cromulent>and of course they thought the US invented radar
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00:22<Peng>Radar was... the British, right?
00:22<Peng>Cromulent said too much!
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00:32<nate>Cromulent: Operational service being the key word, they didn't come up with it though :P
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00:33<Cromulent>nate: not but if I'm not mistaken the british invented the jet engine
00:33<Cromulent>frank whittle
00:34<nate>neg, I think some romanian dude actually did
00:34<Cromulent>everyone on that forum seemed to think that everything was done by the US
00:34<Peng>So bodybuilders really are as dumb as the stereotype? :D
00:34<nate>he also apparently built the first flying saucer
00:35<virtual>Peng: It seems only some are, just like every other field. :)
00:35<virtual>anyway, that was really entertaining, that thread. :)
00:35<Peng>I'm not a member of that bodybuilder forum by the way -- I saw a link to that thread on Twitter.
00:35<virtual>stopped me from doing real work for a while though.
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00:36<Peng>Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with being a member of that forum. :|
00:36*Peng puts foot in mouth
00:37<Cromulent>heh I used to be really into weight lifting hence the membership - now I'm just fat
00:38<virtual>I know a small number of people who either consider themselves current or former body builders. Some of the 'former' did look rather overweight.
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00:39<Cromulent>virtual: I'm blaming it on me being fat but I had some medical issues which caused me to put on weight (medication) - that doesn't excuse the fact that I ate too much but it is a well known side effect of the medication
00:41<TwoWholeWorms>Urgh. Is there any chance that london919 is in the process of falling over? As far as I can tell, my linode on it isn't doing anything at all (load is showing as 0.01, 0.01, 0.00), and the network throughput is around 25 kBit/s total, yet it's acting like it's either downloading Wikipedia, or calculating π to a trillion trillion digits. >.<
00:41<Eugene>We wouldn't have a clue, sounds like a support ticket question
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00:42<TwoWholeWorms>Well, you guys tend to know things before the staff do, so I figured it was worth asking here as well. :p
00:42<virtual>Cromulent: that sucks. :/
00:44<Peng>TwoWholeWorms: Yeah, but there are thousands of servers. Usually we only know widespread things.
00:45<TwoWholeWorms>Like that Xen bug. o.o
00:46<TwoWholeWorms>Well, whatever it was seems to have stopped just in time for Esper to boot me off again. :p
00:46<Peng>See? No good comes from IRC :D
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01:37<DanielBR>Anybody here played much with an Amazon S3 bucket mounted as s3fs on a Linode?
01:39<DanielBR>I've been with Linode almost since the start, and don't plan on leaving, but for a large music collection Linode's business model is not feasible. My power at home is unreliable, and so is my internet connection, so a home server is out.
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01:40<DanielBR>I want to keep total control over my music collection, and I love Subsonic for that, but so far I haven't been able to get Subsonic to see my music collection when mounted as an s3fs filesystem.
01:40<nate>I haven't, but I also despise amazon so
01:40*nate has been having much love for keycdn lately though
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01:41<DanielBR>What alternatives for 100-200 GB?
01:41<nate>Storage or transfer?
01:41<akkii>hi..what should be the minimum traffic on my website to take VPS
01:43<DanielBR>storage - just music files
01:43<DanielBR>Looking at KeyCDN, how can I mount this on Linode and use with Subsonic?
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01:45<DanielBR>I've got no loyalty to Amazon, if you have another way to serve 200 GB for $10/month range I'm open
01:45<DanielBR>(storage not transfer) I just listen to music at work
01:46<DanielBR>akkii: not sure what you mean
01:46<akkii>what should be the minimum traffic on my website to take VPS ?
01:47<DanielBR>what do you mean "to take"?
01:47<DanielBR>please reword
01:47<nate>I think he's asking what kind of traffic he needs to be dealing with to 'require' a VPS
01:47<virtual>akkii: If you're asking is there a minimum bandwidth requirement, there is none.
01:48<nate>the simple answer is any amount of traffic, it depends entirely upon your needs akkii
01:48<virtual>If you're asking something else, then we don't know what you're asking. :)
01:48<akkii>I mean as a feasibilty
01:48<nate>If you want something you have otherwise full (root) control over, a VPS is what you want probably yes
01:48<nate>Other than that there's no 'minimum' requirements and if $10/m is too much to maintain for a website well :P
01:48<DanielBR>Given that Linode lower tier is $10/month, it doesn't take much....
01:49<akkii>I do understand I'll have full access, I hope I don't end up killing mosqitoes by using missles ;)
01:49<virtual>what a weird phrase. :)
01:49<DanielBR>The hard part is learning Linux. If you already know that, Linode is hard to beat. I've been with them almost from the start.
01:51<akkii>I do know linux, but my concern is: How do I know if I need a VPS instead of shared hosting ?
01:51<virtual>DanielBR: Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think you need a CDN just to serve files to you, at work?
01:52<virtual>Also thinking, if it's just music - could streaming from home (via your Linode, if you like) be an option?
01:52<Peng>akkii: It's okay if you just want one.
01:52<nate>Akkii: Simplest way is get shared hosting and if they tell you that you're using too many resources, get a VPS.
01:52<nate>Akkii: FOr whatever it's worth most of us here dramatically under-utilize our linodes
01:52<DanielBR>I'm trying to find a solution to how to serve music online, cheaply, with low maintenance, for the next 10-20 years.
01:52<nate>or well maybe not most, but many
01:52<Peng>akkii: And you may want or need the greater control of a VPS even if you don't have high traffic.
01:53<Peng>akkii: Plus, the smallest package is $10/month. That's around the price of decent shared hosting.
01:53<DanielBR>The best solution (in theory) seems to be Subsonic/Amazon S3/Linode for 200+ GB of music.
01:53<virtual>DanielBR: Ahh, I see. So a file store is what you're looking for. Any reason why you picked KeyCDN as an example?
01:53<akkii>I do want greater control, not sure need it now :)
01:53<nate>virtual: I was the one that brought up keycdn in passing
01:53<nate>(just because I like their prices and they've seemed less criminal to me than amazon has been to me)
01:54<virtual>it's definitely 200GB?
01:54<akkii>thanks guys
01:54<DanielBR>It's around 120 GB now, but if I add my wife's collection it would be closer to 200 GB. She just got her first smartphone, so once she finds out that is a possibility she will want it.
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01:56<DanielBR>I'm open to anything I can use with Subsonic, but that means I need to be able to mount it as a drive. In theory I can do that with Amazon S3. I can see the files as the tomcat7 user, but Subsonic isn't seeing them.
01:56<virtual>that does seem odd.
01:56<DanielBR>The s3fs FUSE filesystem works great at the shell level, but for some reason Java is having a problem.
01:56<virtual>nothing silly like a permissions issue?
01:56<DanielBR>No Java exception traces in Tomcat.
01:56<DanielBR>I can login as 'tomcat7'
01:57<DanielBR>and see the files
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01:57<DanielBR>I'm working on debugging by adding log lines to the Java but it's a pain with a Java project that big.
01:58<virtual>if you just (as a test) tried to point a web server to those files, from yoru linode, that's all good?
01:58<virtual>though I think that's a silly test, if you can do 'ls', etc.
01:58<DanielBR>I can 'cat <file>' using the 'tomcat7' user and see the mp3 files etc.
01:59<DanielBR>Probably something quirky about either s3fs or Java
01:59<virtual>yeah, that really does sound odd!
01:59<Peng>catting an mp3 to your console doesn't sound fun?
01:59<DanielBR>It messes up the virtual terminal settings usually.... :)
02:00<virtual>Have you made subsonic work by pointing it to a local dir, with a few files?
02:00<DanielBR>But it does prove that I can read the file.
02:00<virtual>haha Peng :)
02:00<DanielBR>Oh yeah I use Subsonic all the time
02:00<DanielBR>Currently I have a subset of my music on Linode
02:00<virtual>ah, fair enough.
02:00<DanielBR>I just want it all
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02:01<virtual>I used to do it when I had a colo, but I also had far less music, around 30GB.
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02:01<virtual>oh, wait, no, I streamed from home, to my server, and then from the server, to everyone else.
02:01<DanielBR>I have a lot of classical. I am probably older than you. :0
02:01<virtual>so ig nore that.
02:01<virtual>worth getting a UPS for your home? :)
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02:02<DanielBR>I used to serv from home, but the internet/power not reliable.
02:02<DanielBR>Also I am not reliable at keeping backups
02:02<DanielBR>I like an online solution if I can find one.
02:02<virtual>SO that's 200GB which will be a backup of your collection at home too?
02:02<DanielBR>Linode is awesome, but no reasonable option for a lot of storage like with Amazone.
02:02<virtual>and, hey, I like classical music too. But don't have much in my collection, I admit.
02:03<DanielBR>200 GB would be total collection size
02:03<DanielBR>Most is encoded at 256 kb
02:03<virtual>sure, just thinking 'what if you lost home OR online'.
02:03<DanielBR>I would like my backup to be at home, but my primary source to be online
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02:04<DanielBR>Any new stuff would probably be FLAC
02:04<DanielBR>A friend of mine has 300+ GB because it is all FLAC. He would probably run this setup if I could figure it out.
02:05<virtual>I currently have no personal solution for large online storage. :/
02:05<virtual>And I, like nate, am not an Amazon fan.
02:06<DanielBR>It's hard if you hate Amazon. I don't really love them either, but I have recently been looking at S3.
02:06<Peng>use Google or Rackspace instead of S3? :P
02:06<DanielBR>Is there any reason to think they are less reliable than they claim for the normal service?
02:06<dcraig>FLAC? lol
02:06<DanielBR>How do you mount a google drive in Linux for Subsonic?
02:06<DanielBR>Google has been promising a linux client for how long now? screw them.
02:07<virtual>I think you can take the 'for Subsonic' out of there. :)
02:07<nate>DanielBR: well their entire East US-1 center has historically had a hilarious number of issues over years, beyond that a client of mine got 'taken' by a sales pitcher of theirs andended up with a huge bill so I was like meh
02:07<DanielBR>Yeah, I don't trust them that's for sure. My main concern is data reliability although I will of course have a home backup.
02:08<virtual>uploading multiGB if it fails won't be fun.
02:08<virtual>but that doesn't matter who you use.
02:08<virtual>How much is S3 anyway?
02:08<Peng>S3 is Amazon's most reliable service. Usually when us-east-1 explodes S3 is still okay.
02:09<Peng>And you can just use us-west-2.
02:09<DanielBR>They will charge me more to use us-west-2
02:09<Peng>us-east-1 and us-west-2 have the same prices.
02:09<DanielBR>Not sure how much, although it might be worth it based on what I'm hearing here.
02:09<virtual>Why, because that one isn'r broken? :P
02:09<Peng>us-west-1 is more expensive.
02:09<DanielBR>Oh ok
02:10<dcraig>go for the oregon one :D
02:11<DanielBR>I'm open to any solution other than Subsonic also. It just seems like the best option I've found to keep control of my music library with Linode.
02:11<virtual>I just realised that's only $6/month for you.
02:11<DanielBR>Yeah, that's why it's so enticing.
02:11<virtual>And there's no transfer costs (i.e. to read it via your linode)?
02:11<DanielBR>What would Linode charge for 200 GB? Exactly...
02:12<DanielBR>For my listening needs, the transfer costs for S3 would at most double, but probably far far less.
02:12<virtual>Even so, if there were, I can't see it being super high.
02:12<nate>how much transfer are you doing overall DanielBR
02:12<nate>like monthly
02:12<virtual>Yeah, it's not like you need 200GB of SSD storage here. :)
02:12<DanielBR>My client caches, so we're talking 5GB per month or so
02:12<nate>That's all?
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02:13<nate>Honestly, it's a bit hobo-ish
02:13<virtual>If the client caches... won't that cope with short outages at home?
02:13<James_T>a 1G linode can handle 2TB transfer/mo
02:13<virtual>Wasn't concerned about Linode limits - more just the transfer Linode <-> S3.
02:13<DanielBR>I suppose so. I just seem to go for stretches where I don't have the mental fortitude to keep up with it
02:14<nate>unless you really would like the coverage of a 'CDN', I'd say get a really generic like, $1 or $2/m shared hosting plan
02:14<virtual>oh of course, a shared hosting plan would have enough storage!
02:14<nate>For simple shit like that, I've literally just snagged a generic shared hosting at somewhere like 1&1 and used them as my pack mule because they normally offer a stupid amount of storage/bandwidth
02:14<virtual>nate: that be out of the box thinking, that. :)
02:14<DanielBR>My registrar is 1&1... what's their deal these days for storage?
02:14<nate>Not sure, let me see...
02:15<DanielBR>I never even considered that.
02:15<nate>They're actually claiming "Unlimited", which I'm used to seeing in place of unmetered for bandwidth but
02:15<virtual>You might even be able to mount the drive as http or ftp.
02:15<nate>hey, give them a shot
02:15<nate>$1/m might be worth it
02:16<nate>virtual: Well 1&1 generally gives limited SSH access, so he could prob even do some kind of rsync
02:16<DanielBR>But what I really want is something I can mount as a drive in Linode.
02:16<DanielBR>So that I can use it in Subsonic or whatever.
02:17<nate>Well if it's something you can do over SSH you -might- be able to, but on 1&1 not sure,but for generic storage space with low traffic volume
02:17<nate>using a shared host like 1&1 as a packmule is definitely a price you're prob not gonna beat
02:18<DanielBR>Oh crap I better get to bed, I've got to take daughter to school at 8am
02:20<virtual>Seeing as it's 2:21PM here, that's quite early to go to bed for an 8AM start ;)
02:20<virtual>but, it sure feels late for lunch. bbl
02:25<DanielBR>Haha, the world is a small place. TCP was invented the year I was born.
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02:26<DanielBR>It's 1:25am here. Good night, or g'day
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05:36<+linbot>New news from forum: The linode fiasco: Surprise deletion in Customer Testimonials <>
05:38<virtual>well, that forum post is odd.
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05:46<phlux>I saw that on WHT as well
05:46*phlux shrugs
05:46<phlux>I only have the one VPS and I'm not breaking any rules
05:46<Peng>WHT? That's never good.
05:46<virtual>I noticed he linked to there too.
05:46<phlux>so my service has been great
05:47<virtual>phlux: I have a massive 2! :)
05:47<phlux>Movin' on up!
05:47<virtual>And, ditto, service has been greart.
05:47<virtual>great too. Unsure what greart is.
05:47<phlux>it's a new word that we're going to invent
05:47<phlux>and by 'we' I mean 'you'
05:47<phlux>but I'm taking some credit
05:48<virtual>It's only fair. (It's not really)
05:48<virtual>I'm actually interested/intrigued to see what response Linode has to that post. If any.
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05:56<+linbot>New news from forum: Stop root login with password - Not working with lish in General Discussion <>
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06:06<+linbot>New news from forum: Stop root login with password - Not working with lish in General Discussion <>
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06:18<Ahmed>how are you all ?
06:18<Ahmed>I need some
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06:19<Ahmed>I want to enable TTFB (Time To First Byte) on VPS
06:19<Ahmed>Can somebody help me according to this
06:20<Ahmed>how can i enable that on my VPS
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06:21<Ahmed><Ahmed> I want to enable TTFB (Time To First Byte) on VPS [15:19] <Ahmed> Can somebody help me according to this [15:20] <Ahmed> how can i enable that on my VPS
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06:24<Ahmed>Any one from support ?
06:24<Ahmed>I need some help
06:27<virtual>how do you enable it? That doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense...
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07:22<James_T>How do I enable the vibrator function of my linode?
07:22<James_T>kyhwana: ?
07:23<kyhwana>set 1
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07:33<James_T>how can cloud at cost be so cheap
07:33<smoats>Anyone notice performance issues from Fremont Linodes to Level3?
07:34<smoats>Never mind L3 issue not Linode problem :-)
07:34<smoats>2. 0.0% 13 0.2 5.6 0.2 13.1 4.6 3. 0.0% 13 5.9 4.3 0.7 12.0 4.4 4. 0.0% 13
07:34<smoats> 6. 39.2% 79 93.4 94.2 93.3 130.4 5.3 7. 35.4% 79 93.4 93.5 93.3 97.2 0.5 8. 25.3% 79
07:34<James_T>pastebin better
07:34<smoats>Yep true :-)
07:34<James_T>won't garble the text
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07:38<Raja>which is the best fee third party webmail/email server for Ubuntu
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07:45<Cromulent>Raja: you mean things like iRedMail?
07:46<Raja>like SquirrelMail
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07:47<Cromulent>Raja: squirrelmail is just an open source webmail client - it isn't a full email server stack where as iRedMail is a full email server stack
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07:52<Raja>Cromulent guide is there for install in Ubuntu?
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08:05<virtual>Raja: has a bunch of instructions. In particular:
08:05<virtual>Probably best to read up about it before you go and install it though.
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10:05<Guest501>hi All... When I send emails using postfix from my linode server, In gmail, for SPIF, I get following "xxxxx xxx does not designate 2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe33:63 as permitted sender"
10:05<Peng>Fix your SPF then
10:05<Guest501>why my ip isn't shown instead of 2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe33:63?
10:05<Peng>That's not your IP?
10:05<Guest501>yahoo mail properly shows my IP and says SPF pass
10:05<Guest501>that is not my ip
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10:06<akerl>It looks like it's your IP
10:06<akerl>What makes you think it's not?
10:06<Peng>Guest501: Is it someone else's IPv6 IP, or were you expecting Google to only support IPv4?
10:06<Guest501>no its not because I have IP4 address which I can properly access... with ping.. via webserver
10:07<Peng>You also have an IPv6 address.
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10:07<Guest501>you mean i have both IP4 and IP6?
10:07<Guest501>i see..
10:07-!-aforster [~aforster@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe73:602a] has quit [Quit: Bye]
10:07<Guest501>so I am suppose to list both in my SPF record ?
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10:07<Guest501>thanks a lot
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10:07<Guest501>I wasn't aware about it
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10:08<Guest501>and will I be able to access my machine via either IPs?
10:08<Guest501>let me try
10:09<Peng>Well, your Linode supports both IPv6 and IPv4. Your home or office or whatever might not.
10:09<don-johnny>well, does anyone know that when will the Tokyo node be on sale.
10:09<Peng>don-johnny: No :(
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10:10<Guest501>when I ping on IP6, no reply.. my http server too not accessible via ipv6
10:10<Guest501>is there anything special I need to do?
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10:11<Peng>I can ping your IPv6 address, but HTTP refuses the connection.
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10:11<Peng>Perhaps your web server is misconfigured.
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10:12<don-johnny>well, does anyone know when will the Tokyo node will be on sale?
10:12<Peng>don-johnny: No :(
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10:14<Guest501>just for my information, I would like to know why to have both IP4 and IP6 enabled at the same time ? Can't I disable IP6 and only use IP4
10:14<akerl>Why would you do that?
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10:15<Guest501>Does IP6 requirement is must now a days ?
10:15<Guest501>I am new to the field so sorry for my ignorance
10:15<Peng>Guest501: No, but it will be a must eventually, and it's still cool now.
10:16<Peng>Burying your head in the sand is still practical now, though.
10:16<don-johnny>IPv6 have no NAT, need ISP provide inteligent route and large IP blocks.
10:16<Peng>don-johnny: No, there's NAT for IPv6.
10:16<akerl>And BGP is still BGP
10:17<Peng>don-johnny: I mean, it exists. Luckily nobody uses it.
10:17*akerl laughes maniacally
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10:17<Guest501>I see..
10:17<Guest501>so better I configure SPF to access both IP4 and IP6
10:18<SNy>Peng: Somebody is bound to be using it. The same somebody you will be forced to work with.
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10:18<Guest501>Thanks for the help
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10:23*don-johnny 晕倒
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10:27<ITL>i need suport
10:27<ITL>who online?
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10:27<akerl>This is the user community. If you have a question, you're welcome to ask it
10:28<ITL>the Linod has the WHM and Cpanel panel for your customers?
10:28<ITL>the Linod has the WHM and Cpanel panel for your customers?
10:29<akerl>Linode does not sell cPanel
10:29<@rohara>You can install it though.
10:29<dzho>of course not
10:30<akerl>ITL: Read the page?
10:30<dzho>none of it is free
10:30<dzho>you pay more to get more
10:30<ITL>thank you!
10:30<dzho>ITL: you're welcome. good luck with your decisions!
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10:34<don-johnny>bye bye guys.
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11:02<Cromulent>hmmm do I print out a 3400 page PDF or not....
11:03<Peng>print it out and burn it
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11:03<Cromulent>heh and post pictures on twitter with #savetherainforest I presume?
11:04<Cromulent>seriously though I hate reading long documents on screen
11:04<akerl>That's why you hire an assistant
11:05<Ubik>Cromulent: Bonus points if you post the pictures and tag them, yes.
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11:18<zifnab>why do people love cpanel so much
11:19<dzho>that might actually be a pretty deep question about UX
11:20<zifnab>i guess i'm the weird one
11:20<zifnab>i like my ssh apps
11:20<zifnab>, mutt, weechat
11:20<Peng>no, you're the indoctrinated one :D
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11:20<akerl>The fact that you consider them "ssh apps" is amusing, given the discussion at hand
11:21<dzho>from the original MacOS on down to, the folks who try to sell computer stuff to people try to make it "easy" by making it like TV, full of attractive pictures.
11:21<dzho>this is not completely hollow, but it leaves lots of room for BS
11:21<zifnab>akerl: i just woke up, 'ssh apps' probably isnt the best way to put it
11:21<Peng>dzho: yeah Apple and Microsoft have only made like a trillion dollars in sales doing that
11:22<dzho>Peng: your point?
11:22<Peng>"not completely hollow"
11:22<dzho>it's not
11:22<dzho>are you arguing it is? If so, you are doing spectacularly poorly.
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11:23<dzho>in the meantime, people who run other entertainment industries also rake in big bucks. And I'd argue that some of it is even good, too.
11:23<akerl>"not completely hollow", I believe, would be a great example of damning with faint praise
11:24<dzho>good, you take my point.
11:24<akerl>and Peng is pointing out that it's in fact very very far from hollow
11:24<Peng>akerl: <3
11:25<dzho>ok, so there we have our answer: cpanel is popular because it makes money.
11:25<dzho>wow, this has been a totally intriguing and insightful conversation.
11:25<dzho>thank you, #linode.
11:25<akerl>It makes money because it's popular, and it's popular because it provides a useful feature set for a large body of users
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11:26<auraka>and it is one of the oldest panel so it has just a lot of market dominance
11:27<dzho>market dominance due to incumbency argues against pure utility, though.
11:27<auraka>it use to be a pretty big POS...but people used it because customers were used to it
11:27<dzho>it's useful because people are used to it, rather than due to other advantages, in other words.
11:28<auraka>I would argue there are better panels out there but cpanel retains its market share because of brand
11:29<dzho>the brand argument further undercutting the argument of utility. people use it because that's what gets sold.
11:29<dzho>"here, use this, everyone else does"
11:29<dzho>"also, it will make your whites whiter and your colors brighter"
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11:30<dzho>which is not to say GUIs are useless, but . . . what makes them useful?
11:30<dzho>they're useful because people use them is a tautology.
11:30<dzho>not all that interesting.
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11:30<zifnab>i guess someone has to support the plebs
11:31<zifnab>(plebs being 'cant do anything without cpanel' people)
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11:31<dzho>zifnab: anyway, thought I'd throw this view from the other side of things out there
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11:35<virtual>you've got to love the amount of times he uses 'bullshittery' on that page
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11:57<zifnab>dzho: its in the 'to read' list, contacts are fucked up atm
11:58<zifnab>long weekend, fucked up my sleep timing again
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11:58<zifnab>had a nasty headache all day saturday and somehow slept all but 7ish hours of the day
11:59<Peng>Would any of you who recently got "Server closed connection"'d happen to know if you were on graviton?
11:59<Peng>(Actually all of you are probably AFK.)
12:00<Peng>Never mind.
12:01<Peng>Looks like graviton is still in DNS, so it's probably not the server shedding.
12:01<zifnab>whoever designed this contact case made it on my hitlist
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12:01<zifnab>green is clearly markd with an 'L'. green is always right.
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12:13<v0lksman>issues with newark929?
12:13<akerl>Do you have a ticket?
12:13<v0lksman>not yet
12:13<Eugene>If there are we likely won't have a clue. Ask in a ticket.
12:13<v0lksman>went offline about 8 minutes ago
12:13<akerl>What does "offline" mean?
12:14<v0lksman>trying to figure that out but lish ajax doesn't connect either
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12:17<v0lksman>fuck another hardware issue notification
12:17<v0lksman>3 on this node since Feb 25
12:17<akerl>One day folks will learn to build distributed systems
12:17<akerl>One day
12:17<v0lksman>2 different hosts
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12:18<v0lksman>distributed would be major overkill for this site
12:18<akerl>Oh, so problem solved
12:18<v0lksman>I don't have a problem with the odd outage but 3 in about 2 weeks is killing me
12:19<v0lksman>for obvious reasons
12:19<gparent>that is a bit unlucky
12:20<akerl>v0lksman: Either having a single point of failure is killing you, and you should see the above about distributed systems, or it's not killing you
12:20<v0lksman>akerl: you are so right
12:21<akerl>I hear that a lot
12:21<v0lksman>people only hear what they want to hear
12:22<akerl>What is the sound of one VM crashing?
12:23<@rohara>Similar to a VW crashing - a loud crunching sound.
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12:24<Dionathan>good day I'm buying an SSL certificate for my domain " " need an additional ip . how should I do ? urgently needed thanks a lot
12:24<gparent>maybe he has a distributed system and still likes to see his VMs stay up
12:24<gparent>I must be crazy though
12:25<akerl>Dionathan: Why not use the existing IP?
12:25<Dionathan>SSL deployment
12:25<akerl>Yea, why not use the existing IP?
12:26<v0lksman>nope...spf on this one but usually you don't get hit with 3 hardware failure migrations in 2 weeks
12:26<Dionathan>SSL deployment
12:26<akerl>Dionathan: Yea, I read that
12:26<akerl>SNI is supported by almost every non-EOL browser, and allows one IP to serve as many SSL certs as you want.
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12:32<Dionathan>Akerl: This means I can have several SSL Certificates About Running a single ip address ?
12:36<Dionathan>Akerl: there is some form of specific SSL certificate for this? Or it could be a certificate like this
12:36<akerl>Nothing special about the cert
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13:27<kcaj>Impossible to completely remove rDNS?
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13:28<@caker>kcaj: yes. You can set it back to what it was ( or set it to the IP address itself (ghetto)
13:28<akerl>note the "Reset" button :>
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13:29<kcaj>caker I've tried inputting the IP into the field, but it complains there is not A record.
13:29<kcaj>*no A record
13:29<kcaj>akerl I'm trying to remove rDNS etc, and replace with nothing.
13:30<kcaj>Personal preference
13:33-!-Shogun_ is now known as Shogun
13:33<Ubik>seems like I found a way to do it before, but can't remember
13:33<Ubik>perhaps if you just type the IP address in there... or (a.b.c.d being your IP)
13:34<Ubik>or perhaps I just imagined doing the whole thing, lol
13:35<Ubik>kcaj: FWIW, if you are trying to hide from your clients what vendor you are using.... people can still WHOIS the IP address and find out... not sure if that's what you were trying to accomplish or not
13:36<kcaj>I know
13:36<kcaj>Personal preference if anything
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13:40<ramesh>hi anyone can help me?
13:40<+linbot>New news from forum: developing elasticity based on network load in General Discussion <>
13:40<akerl>This is the user community. If you have a question, you're welcome to ask it
13:40-!-rfeliciano [~rfelician@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe50:40fc] has quit [Server closed connection]
13:40<ramesh>i have linod - debian - litespeed installed
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13:41<NiTe>i got a support ticket in for 1 hour now is support backed up?
13:41<NiTe>usually pretty quick
13:42<akerl>rsync /support offsite-server:/backups/support ?
13:42<ramesh>any file to add the domain names for litespeed config?
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13:42<ramesh>my host not working
13:43<ramesh>newly created domain
13:43<akerl>ramesh: What does "not working" mean?
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13:43<ramesh>new domain not accessable
13:43-!-NiTeMaRe is now known as Guest529
13:43<akerl>what's the domain?
13:43<ramesh>i was added the virtual host...etc all
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13:44<akerl>HTTP/1.0 504 Gateway Timeout
13:44<akerl>so check your web server logs
13:44<ramesh>right my ip
13:44<@caker> isn't responding on 80 or 443
13:45<akerl>caker: It is for me?
13:45<ramesh>caker yes
13:45<akerl>oooh, shenanigans are occuring on my end
13:45<@caker> is not responding on port 80 for me, from 5 places.
13:45<Ubik>I'm getting "connection refused"
13:45<Ubik>as if nothing is listening on that port
13:45<akerl>Yea, as caker noted, your web server isn't responding, so either it's not running, it's not listening, or your firewall is blocking those connections
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13:46<ramesh>1 sec to change the port to 80
13:46<Peng>Change what?
13:47<ramesh>domain listing port to 80
13:48<ramesh>i was set the port to listen 8088
13:48<ramesh>now changing to 80
13:49<Peng>Indeed, port 8088 works.
13:49<Peng>and 80 does now
13:49<ramesh>wow.. its working with 80
13:49<ramesh>great thank you legends
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14:05<DrJ>What is the best way to find out what the location is of whatever is eating up all my disk space all of a sudden?
14:05<akerl>cd / ; du -sh * ; cd /biggest-abuser, rinse repeat
14:06<Peng>I prefer du -hd 1 | sort -h
14:06<Peng>You may need to be root if the problem directory isn't readable to you
14:06<DrJ>says there is no -d
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14:07<DrJ> du -hd 1 | sort -h
14:07<DrJ>du: invalid option -- 'd'
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14:25<Eugene>DrJ - ncdu
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14:27*Peng looks up ncdu. Interesting.
14:27<Peng>What will they think of next!
14:28<Tom_Dorsher>Hi Cromulent. I have a question about the Linode service.
14:28<Tom_Dorsher>Can you assist?
14:28<+linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient!
14:28<Tom_Dorsher>Will the servers support Nginx + PHP-FPM + opcode cache
14:28<Eugene>A VRML model
14:28<Cromulent>Tom_Dorsher: yes
14:29<Eugene>Oh, right.
14:29<Tom_Dorsher>Wonderful. So, they have Linux?
14:29<Cromulent>Tom_Dorsher: it is just a linux server with root access you can install whatever you like on it
14:29<Tom_Dorsher>Ok, wonderful. Thanks kindly for your time.
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14:47<pronto>We keep warning people that the available IPv4 jokes will get exhausted soon, but they are slow to adopt IPv6 jokes...
14:48<Peng>I have years worth of NAT jokes left
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14:53<@wblew>Peng: Well I hope you get them all sorted out for usage.
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15:16<zifnab>dzho: i disagree with that command line bullshitery article
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15:17<zifnab>'this bullshit is not intellectually interesting in any way'
15:17<zifnab>seems insulting
15:18<zifnab>'linux cli is just another programming language' <-- good teacher said that once
15:18<akerl>A) it's a warranted insult
15:18<akerl>B) That's the problem being described in the article
15:19<zifnab>C) its an opinion peice, i just disagree with his opinion
15:20<akerl>The fact that we've spent decades building tools that require the user to learn an elaborate and often single-purpose dialect before the user can actually wield the tool *is* the bullshittery
15:20<+linbot>New news from forum: "Broken" PHP after Xen upgrade in Web Servers and Web App Development <>
15:20<zifnab>i'm trying to come up with an apt metaphore but i'm not finding one
15:21<zifnab>something about wanting to mow the lawn but thinking the lawnmower is too complex
15:21<akerl>Imagine an airplane where, instead of having a series of control interfaces, we gave the pilot a screen and keyboard
15:22<akerl>to change heading: './bin/heading --redirect --new 0300'
15:22<akerl>To disable autopilot: './bin/autopilot --disengage'
15:22<rnowak>itym systemd-heading and systemd-autopilot
15:22<zifnab>so, this problem has been 'solved' using a gui
15:23<akerl>The lawnmower is a great example: I am not a mechanic, but if you put a random lawnmower in front of me, there's a decent shot that I can turn it on and use it to cut grass
15:23<Cromulent>akerl: what is really annoying is going from BSD to GNU or GNU to BSD and finding the same utilities have different command line options
15:23<zifnab>although i think most guis provide too much information, lots of things i don't need
15:23<akerl>I won't be the best grass mower in town, and I won't be able to take it apart and put it back together, but I can at least at a basic level operate the tool
15:23<akerl>By contrast: tar
15:23<akerl>Cromulent: Yup
15:23<zifnab>tar create filename.tar list of files
15:24<akerl>OSX vs Linux still kills me
15:24<zifnab>now that wa sa problem i didn't know existed
15:24<akerl>Also: every command out there that responds to "./{command} -h" with "this isn't a valid argument, to learn more, try --help"
15:25<akerl>Or worse, "this isn't a valid argument, try `./{command} help`"
15:25<zifnab>more or less the issue is 'lack of unity between different commands and their flags'?
15:25<zifnab>i can see that bein gan issue
15:25<akerl>❯ tar create foo.tar *
15:26<akerl>tar: You may not specify more than one '-Acdtrux', '--delete' or '--test-label' option
15:26<akerl>Try 'tar --help' or 'tar --usage' for more information.
15:26<akerl>My first thought, every time I see that: What the hell is an acid truck"
15:27<zifnab>er, should have said 'tar (c)reate' or something
15:28<akerl>so like `tar c foo.tar *` ?
15:28<zifnab>none of this knowledge will ever come in useful
15:28<akerl> Note how the program is almost certain what I want, but still wants me to properly incant
15:28<zifnab>if anyone ever asks me to recite ar flags from memory, i'll laugh at them
15:29<akerl> is especially relevant
15:30<Cromulent>heh that's a good one
15:30<binaryatrocity>yeah that one hits home with me :D
15:30<zifnab>tar cvfz file.tgz list of flies
15:30<zifnab>i'd win
15:30<akerl>that's not a valid command
15:30<zifnab>yes it is :)
15:31<akerl>Negative; z after f
15:31<rnowak>you just killed us all, good job
15:31<zifnab>order doesn't matter in gnu world
15:31<akerl>Is the bomb in the gnu world?
15:32<Cromulent>zifnab: bad luck if you are using any BSD, Solaris, AIX, Mac OS X etc etc :)
15:32<akerl>And what self-respecting bomb would run something besides FreeBSD
15:33<zifnab>you know my favorite thing about tar?
15:33<zifnab>tar -H ustar -c recovery.img > recovery.tar && md5sum -t recovery.tar >> recovery.tar && mv recovery.tar recovery.tar.md5
15:33<zifnab>fucking samsung and odin
15:33<zifnab>for some reason they decided ustar was the correct format for everything
15:33<Karrde>gunzip < foo.tar.gz | tar xf -
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15:35<zifnab>maybe i should try freebsd somewhere
15:35<zifnab>on the large list of things that annoy me, cli flags are not on that list
15:35<zifnab>it isn't even close to 'envelopes that dont open without ripping' and 'french canadian midgets'
15:36<zifnab>'defaults to /dev/rst0'
15:36<zifnab>thats some legacy stuff
15:37<zifnab>i should probably go back to work :/
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15:52<jessej>hey.. my linode looks to be sending spam mail
15:52<jessej>how can I see what script is responsible?
15:52<agentbob>is there any benefit to the linode 1024 plan vs the new linode 2gb plan? i seem to be paying $20/month for 1gb ram but i have more storage than the linode 1gb plan on the homepage
15:53<buhman>agentbob: if you upgraded, you would get a linode 2GB plan
15:53<buhman>agentbob: this would also involve a migration to newer faster strong better hardware
15:53<Peng>you would also have fewer vCPUs
15:53<@caker>faster CPUs
15:54<@caker>SSDs, 40Gbit network, etc etc etc
15:54<kyhwana>jessej: well, what scripts do you have running/installed that send email? Or rather, are you running an unpatched webapp that's been owned and someone has uploaded a script using it to send spam?
15:54<jessej>i am looking at mail.log and there's an email sent every other second to various addresses
15:54<Eugene>Your'e really on the $20 plan, which now includes 2Gb of RAM, SSDs, and such
15:54<kyhwana>jessej: Or you're running an open relay
15:54<Eugene>The $10 plan is 1GB and less storage than your current $20 ;-)
15:54<jessej>kyhwana: maybe wordpress?
15:54<Peng>Probably WordPress.
15:54<Eugene>So you can save money, or get more stuff at the same money
15:54<Peng>Unless your password is "passw0rd" or you're running an open relay or something else even worse.
15:55<Peng>It's probably WordPress.
15:55*buhman wants to know what 'even worse' is
15:55<jessej>mail.log is full of this
15:55<kyhwana>jessej: or one of the WP plugins, etc
15:56<jessej>i plugged one hole by enabling x-headers and saving to phpmail.log
15:56<jessej>but mail.log still keeps filling up and doesn't show me what script is responsible
15:58<jessej>how can i identify the culprit?
15:58<kyhwana>jessej: well, what scripts did you install that send mail? Otherwise check your wordpress/webroot directories for stuff that shouldn't be there.
15:58<kyhwana>(also check your audit logs, but I doubt you have those)
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15:59<jessej>is there no way to see what php file is calling sendmail to send those mails?
15:59<jessej>otherwise it's a bit of a wild goose chase
16:02<jessej>syslog looks like it's logging a lot of the spam too
16:02<kyhwana>jessej: I imagine you could change the mailer in php.ini to a script that logs where it's coming from?
16:03<kyhwana>jessej: you probably want to shutdown sendmail until you sort that out, otherwise you'll start getting abuse complaints/your IP will get blacklisted
16:03<jessej>good idea
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16:04<jessej>logs show it's been running for a week so probably already blacklisted
16:04<Nathanael>recommended remote MySQL management app for windows?
16:04<jessej>hope those clear out once the spam stops
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18:11<bonjurkes>is there a need to keep both upstream php-fpm and fastcgi_pass values in same vhost?
18:12<bonjurkes>lol wut
18:12<bonjurkes>I lost my vhost files for nginx and just trying to understand should I keep both upstream php-fpm variable and fastcgi_pass path in same vhost
18:12<akerl>I feel like if you think about what those directives do, the answer will be pretty clear
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19:26<@caker>uh ... :)
19:27<akerl>I'd never even considered "limited shell" as a possible expansion
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19:37<alexandcote>I plan to take a server with Linode for three of my sites.Should I take a cPanel?
19:37<akerl>I generally recommend against using cPanel
19:39<alexandcote>I would like to use nginx and mariaDB. cPanel has this flexibility ?
19:39<akerl>Not last I looked, no
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19:42<technoid_>shouldn't I be able to do a "dig -t txt default._domainkey.domain.tld" and get the dkim info?
19:42<technoid_>I can see the entry in my linode DNS manager for the domain.
19:43<akerl>technoid_: How recently did you add it in the DNS Manager?
19:43<+linbot>New news from forum: Xcache VS APC at Linode server in Performance and Tuning <>
19:43<akerl>Also what's the domain / what did you put as the hostname for the record
19:45<technoid_>akerl: last week.
19:45<technoid_>name is set to "default._domainkey"
19:46<akerl>what's the domain?
19:46<akerl>Yea, that record is being served
19:46<technoid_> says success
19:47<akerl>dig -t txt works fine from here
19:48<technoid_>Okay, thank you. Now to figure out why gmail fails the dkim.
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19:50<nate>You know I've been doing web and tech stuff since I was like 14, and I'm actually finding wordpress difficult to functionally use. Is it just because it's written so stupidly for really inept people that it breaches that area where intelligent people have issues with it?
19:50<nate>Probably doesn't help that I expect it to have what seems like it should be a really obvious search feature and sadly doesn't
19:51<Ikaros>It's written stupidly anyway. Doesn't matter who it was written for.
19:51<alexandcote>How much time it's suppose to take before my account will reviewed? I signed up 20 min ago
19:52<nate>Ikaros: Indeed
19:52<akerl>alexandcote: May be worth going to refill your beverage of choice and then rechecking your email
19:52<nate>Just stupid I've had to spend 15 minutes trying to find a "Page" to disable it's redirect and have so far been unable to, sure there's a sheer number of pages but why the hell WP doesn't let you search by link URL I have no idea
19:53<akerl>I heard SQL supports that
19:53<alexandcote>akerl : Thanks ahaha
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20:00<nate>akerl: True I suppose, guess I can dig into the DB directly
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20:11<v0lksman>I just messed my fstab and on boot in lish it says press S to skip and M for manual recovery but keystrokes don't seem to register. is there a trick here
20:13<@caker>using lish-via-ssh?
20:13<v0lksman>either via ajax or ssh
20:14<@caker>sounds like it's not on our end, then. Boot into rescue mode, mount the disk, fix the problem, reboot back into reality
20:14<v0lksman>CTRL+A+D drops the screen session.. :)
20:14<@caker>as it should
20:15<v0lksman>yep...keys are ringing
20:20<nate>akerl: Well that worked out uselessly, can't find the shit in the DB either, lol
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20:24<zifnab>its wordpress
20:24<zifnab>its written for 12 year olds without computer knowledge, and grandmas
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20:25<nate>zifnab: I know but god damnit I'm pretty pro if I might say so myself, and I cannot for the fuck of it findwhere exactly this "Page" is internally
20:26<zifnab>i can't be of any help there
20:26<jrhunt>im confused, do the grandmas *have* computer knowledge?
20:26<nate>all I know is it redirects when you go to the URL, but it's not in .htaccess, and it's not in the redirect plugin, so it has to be a "Page", except there's no "Page" listed with the URL
20:26<nate>jrhunt: as someone who has taught intro to computers at a senior center, yes, some do
20:26<zifnab>curl -D pageurl
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20:27<zifnab>jrhunt: my grandmother could probably set up wordpress
20:27<zifnab>she knows enough to check ipconfig for valid data
20:27<jrhunt>have her pm nate then
20:27<v0lksman>caker: fixed but it was really just a buggered fstab (forgot the fstype dec)
20:28<nate>zifnab: That's not going to really reveal to me what the internal page is
20:29<zifnab>nate: i was wrong nayways, curl -i http://page
20:29<zifnab>if it has a x-powered-by wordpress is doing it
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20:29<zifnab>if it doesn't, its not
20:29<virtual>nate: Kinda confused what your actual problem is, other than 'a redirect' - what's happening?
20:29<nate>zifnab: I already caught it in firebug when I noticed it wasn't in .htaccess or a folder w/ some generic file
20:29<nate>virtual: They want me to disable the redirect
20:30<nate>to disable the redirect, I have to actually find the 'page' in wordpress
20:30<virtual>disable a redirect to ... another page?
20:30<nate>and since a redirect doesn't show a page title, I can't search by page title, but the URL is usually stored as post_name in wp_posts
20:30<nate>virtual: indeed
20:30<nate>it's a horribly complicated super-duper tons of pages marketing WP site
20:30<virtual>heh, that is indeed going to be fun.
20:31<virtual>do they have some redirect plugin installed too by any chance?
20:31<zifnab>question: does wordpress allow extra urls per page
20:31<zifnab>any chance its set on the page it redirects to
20:31<virtual>by default, no, I don't think so.
20:31<nate>Neg, either you redirect a page or it displays the page
20:31<nate>virtual: Yeah as noted above though, it only has two redirects in it, neither match this
20:31<nate>And -best- part
20:32<zifnab>my default wordpress reply to customers is 'this is our rate, ew require x*5 hours upfront'
20:32<nate>There's not just a /foo/ redirecting, but also a /foo/bar redirecting under the same path, both redirecting to different things, yet neither seemingly being in wordpres
20:32<nate>this thing hates me I think, simplest explanation
20:32<zifnab>you want to pay me 5/mo for a website, have me set it up, spend 3-4 hours dealing iwht it being hacked? fuck that
20:32<virtual>did zifnab's suggestion reveal the x-powered-by header?
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20:33<virtual>nate: not something lame in the actual vhost config perhaps (someone put a redirectmatch in there perhaps) ?
20:33<zifnab>or x-pingback
20:34<nate>virtual: Indeed, also noted earlier already found that after I didn't see anything in .htaccess, I just captured it with firebug, it even has WP's silly X-Pingback crap
20:34<nate>(though we blackhole xmlrpc anyways)
20:35<nate>virtual: Only myself and the other sysadmin have that level of access, and we wouldn't do that
20:36<nate>... unless
20:36<virtual>dun dun dunnnnn!
20:36<nate>Nope, cPanel adds it by .htaccess, not the main conf, so
20:36*nate just had to double check
20:36<nate>I know
20:36<nate>that would have made my day
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20:37<nate>now I'm back to where's waldo
20:37<zifnab>i set our asa up to blacklist xmlrpc.php
20:37<zifnab>poor customers
20:37<virtual>dump the sql db, and grep for the pre-redirect url? :)
20:38<zifnab>mysqldump -u root -p database | grep url
20:38<zifnab>oh hey
20:38*zifnab gives virtual a cactapus
20:38*virtual eats the catapus, but isn't sure that was actually a good idea.
20:39<zifnab>catapus works too i guess
20:39<virtual>damn typos.
20:39<zifnab>its an 8 legged cat cactus
20:39<zifnab>i think?
20:39<virtual>Yeah, I googled. :)
20:39<zifnab>maybe no cat
20:39<virtual>You were right, I made a typo.
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20:40<virtual>nate: you do always seem to have weird and wonderful issues.
20:41<virtual>And, if you don't, well, I'm going to continue to think you do.
20:41<zifnab>i hvae an interesting issue for you
20:42<zifnab>client doesn't think its bad their password hasn't been changed since 2002
20:42<akerl>password rotation ends up being way less relevant than password entropy and password uniqueness
20:42<virtual>If "meh" is the password, it's bad.
20:42<dzho>and general good opsec
20:42<zifnab>well their domain admin password is octopus3 (or something similar)
20:42*zifnab actually did type that password in on irc a few weeks ago
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20:43<akerl>password rotation is an infosec stopgap that gets implemented because it feels like you're doing something, and because it can mitigate some of the risks from people choosing shite passwords or reusing them
20:44<Peng>You know the "/channel add" command in irssi? I was once super tired and accidentally did "/msg add" instead and sent my linbot password to someone named "add" on Freenode. :-\
20:44<virtual>Doesn't it have the downside that people write their passwords down, because they have to keep changing them?
20:44<akerl>Checking password strength and making it easy for people to use unique passwords per service end up being far more helpful
20:44<dzho>written down passwords is pretty peripheral to the threat model these days
20:45<akerl>virtual: depends. If you're making them remember them, sure, it makes them weaker or makes writing them down more likely
20:45<zifnab>our password policy is stupid
20:45<virtual>dzho: depends where you work I guess. A post it note with the password on your monitor... ;)
20:45<akerl>But if you're providing people a secure way to store passwords (hello 1password), "not really", since they just update it
20:45<zifnab>it leads to (last number+1) every 30 days
20:45<virtual>akerl: of course.
20:45<dzho>virtual: as with other aspects of this, there are better ways and there are worse ways
20:46<virtual>I still liked the job where there was a constantly running 'crack' type job. When it cracked a password, it notified the user, and the sysadmins.
20:46<virtual>I was happy that my password was never cracked. :)
20:46<zifnab>i did that on a student server once
20:46<virtual>Of course, that's not an amazing system either, and only helps in one vector.
20:47<zifnab>wrote a perl thingy that ran something to break them, lots of 'password' 'password1' '1password' shit
20:47<virtual>I still liked it, because it made me feel good. :P
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20:48<zifnab>why have i never worn dress shirts regularly before
20:48<zifnab>too cold? sleeves roll down. too warm? sleeves roll up
20:48<zifnab>its like magic
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20:49<virtual>Because you need to iron them.
20:49<zifnab>oh right
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20:49<alexandcote>my account stuck in : Your account is currently being reviewed
20:49<zifnab>i have an iron somewhere, might be covered in wax though
20:49<virtual>(or spend money getting someone to iron them)
20:50<zifnab>alexandcote: give it time, watch your email, if in doubt email
20:50<virtual>I consider getting our partner to do that counts as paying someone. :)
20:50<akerl>alexandcote: Did you check your email?
20:50<virtual>I need a new keyboard.
20:50<zifnab>partner? you mean my hand?
20:50*zifnab hides
20:51*virtual shakes his head and goes for a lie down. Stupid backache.
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20:51<alexandcote>zifnab : 1h30 is not enough ?
20:51<zifnab>alexandcote: probably, i fyou didn't get an email yet, email
20:51<zifnab>this is the 'community support', none of us can do anything
20:52<HoopyCat>alexandcote: also has phone and fax numbers for linode, in addition to e-mail
20:52<zifnab>HoopyCat: can i really fax in tickets
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20:52<arlen>try it
20:53<zifnab>next time i have a problem, i'll fax them a napkin
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20:53<alexandcote>HoopyCat: ahahha thanks the info ;)
20:56<HoopyCat>zifnab: i might do it at some point, if i can figure out how to
20:56<zifnab>it kinda works
20:56<Eugene>Show me the carfox
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20:56<zifnab>Eugene: have you faxed linode befor
20:57<HoopyCat>there's a fax machine 20 meters from my desk, i just... well, i assume it's like scanning, but i enter a phone number instead of an e-mail address? do i have to dial 9 first?
20:57<zifnab>of all people i'd expect that from you
20:57<zifnab>HoopyCat: is it connected to a phone line
20:57<zifnab>thats normally the first question
20:57<Eugene>I'm more likely to figure out how to SIP them
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20:57<zifnab>if yes, then probably?
20:57<HoopyCat>zifnab: i think so, because the one 10 meters from my desk has a sign saying it's not connected to a phone line
20:57<zifnab>same way you'd dial out on a landline, might need 9, might need 8, might need nothing
20:59<HoopyCat>i have a phone on my desk... it has a big blinking red light and says i have voicemail. there's also a "x missed calls" counter where x increments every few days
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21:00<HoopyCat>alexandcote: (you're welcome! sorry i sometimes forget my manners...)
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21:01<HoopyCat>TIL there is such a thing as "snow mold"
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21:04<zifnab>if you ever have to deal with network solutions
21:04<zifnab>they refuse to do any work except vi afax
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21:22<kyhwana>zifnab: the 80's called, they want their fax machines back
21:25<zifnab>i've only made one customer fax me something
21:25<zifnab>but it was because they pissed me off
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21:38<James_T>did they fax you their genitals
21:38<rsdehart>thought that was SOP
21:38<James_T>my spacebar on my laptop is broken
21:38<James_T>several of the clips for the bar thing are snapped
21:39<HoopyCat>James_T: do i have to dial an 8 first?
21:39<James_T>an 8? nah, a 666
21:39<James_T>parents got me a fitbit surge for my birthday
21:39<rsdehart>was that supposed to be a hint?
21:39<rsdehart>"uh, thanks, you guys"
21:39<James_T>a big hint
21:39<James_T>;) ;) ;)
21:40<HedgeMage>James_T: I just got a Charge HR, mostly because my parents agreed to do it if I did.
21:41<HedgeMage>I seem to not be the target audience for this thing...though I'm liking the vibe alarm and caller ID a lot.
21:41<HoopyCat>a sure sign that spring is right around the corner: the damned john denver special
21:41<HedgeMage>HoopyCat: should I know what that is?
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21:45<HoopyCat>HedgeMage: our local public television station tends to run a john denver documentary about this time, with pledge drive spots injected
21:45<HedgeMage>Ahh, I don't know who that is, but have fun.
21:45*HedgeMage doesn't do TV much
21:46<HoopyCat>HedgeMage: neither do i, but 1) it's an opportunity to share a sofa with my spouse and 2) i ended up on the pledge drive phone bank during the john denver special once
21:48<HoopyCat>HedgeMage: there's a certain subset of people who are inspired to get their credit card out and call a television station during the john denver special
21:49<HedgeMage>HoopyCat: none of them are me
21:50<HoopyCat>HedgeMage: me either, oddly enough
21:51<dcraig>JOHN DENVER'S ON TV?!?!?!
21:55<rsdehart>John Denver was an apparently insanely obscure music personality, not so much exclusively tv
21:55<HoopyCat>dcraig: yep... 485 MHz, 8-VSB ATSC, subchannel 1
21:55<dcraig>ok, tuning in
21:57<zifnab>James_T: no genitals
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22:03<waltman>"insanely obscure"? John Denver was one of the most popular singers of the 1970s.
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22:07<vpn_way>hi there
22:07<vpn_way>is this linode customer service?
22:08<vpn_way>no one here?
22:08<akerl>This is the user community. If you have a question, you're welcome to ask it
22:09<vpn_way>I couldn't find tokyo node in the pricing section. is ti still available ?
22:09<akerl>The pricing page applies to all locations, if you're referring to
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22:10<akerl>If you're talking about availability, I'm pretty sure tokyo still has little to no available space, as per
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22:43<ctpdump>is there any way to sort of safely wipe out a remote system without console access? something better than rm -rf /* &
22:43<akerl>What's the goal here?
22:43<ctpdump>I need to decommission a remote server (physical) without console access
22:44<ctpdump>and I'd like to wipe it completely
22:44<Peng>You can wipe a Linode by clicking a button in the manager ;)
22:44<akerl>What are you going to do with it afterwards?
22:44<ctpdump>have no idea, so I'll probably zero-fill it after removing all the non essentials
22:44<ctpdump>and simply r'
22:44<ctpdump>rm the essentials
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22:45<akerl>No, I mean "what are you going to do with it once it's all zeros"
22:45<akerl>The server
22:45<gregwork>Has anyone used the centos7 image, its pretty quirky
22:45<gregwork>no lvm2?
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22:45<akerl>gregwork: Linodes don't use LVM
22:45<ctpdump>I don't know, it will probably go to the server heaven
22:45<gregwork>akerl why
22:45<akerl>gregwork: Because they don't?
22:46<gregwork>not really an answer
22:46<akerl>ctpdump: So spawn a static busybox process and rm away?
22:46<akerl>gregwork: I don't know what you're looking for
22:46<Peng>gregwork: The manager has several disk image managing features.
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22:46<akerl>The default Linode configuration uses disk images, it does not use LVM, which is probably why the default images lack lvm
22:46<ctpdump>akerl: that's actually quite a nice idea.
22:47<akerl>Note: your connection would likewise want to be via something that wasn't going to freak too badly as libraries go away
22:47<akerl>Another note: you more or less get 1 shot
22:47<akerl>for obvious reasons :P
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22:48<gregwork>yeah running everything out of 1 partition isnt really a good idea
22:48<akerl>I'd suggest starting by nuking data before you go nuking lib
22:48<akerl>gregwork: Why
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22:48<gregwork>because unexpected / unanticipated things can fill your disk
22:48<gregwork>like logs
22:49<akerl>Sounds like a job for logrotation
22:49<akerl>If "logs" are an unexpected thing on your system, I'm curious what you do expect
22:49<akerl>It's worth noting that Linodes don't use partitions either
22:50<ctpdump>real men (tm) don't use separate partitions for /usr, /var etc
22:50<akerl>ctpdump: my /var is a tmpfs :P
22:50<ctpdump>that actually increases your penis size
22:51<Peng>My only partition is swap and my *everything* is tmpfs
22:51<akerl>This is beginning to sound like one of those adverts
22:51<ctpdump>but what about /var/lib, /var/spool?
22:51<ctpdump>don't you kinda need those to persist?
22:51<ctpdump>hmm.. worth looking into it
22:52<ctpdump>do you create something at boot?
22:52<ctpdump>apart from the mountpoint itself?
22:52<akerl>I guess to be fair, /var on my system is ext4 (or btrfs, I forget), but the device is LUKS'd with a key I don't bother writing down
22:52<akerl>so it's essentially tmpfs
22:52<ctpdump>I'm thinking some programs might need a full path to work
22:52<akerl>ctpdump: My system boots from a readonly rootfs with the aforemenioned ext4/btrfs volume overlay'd on top
22:53<gregwork>anyhow are there any traditional images for centos 7
22:53<purrdeta>gregwork: no.
22:53<akerl>gregwork: The images that exist are the images you see
22:53<ctpdump>akerl: I'm assuming it's a workstation and not a server. out of curiosity, what distribution?
22:53<akerl>It's an Archlinux linode :P
22:54<gregwork>"This guide is handy for people who prefer distributions that aren’t heavily used in the community, or for those interested in creating a highly customized Linux environment and porting it to their Linode." -- an amusing statement given what im looking at here
22:54<akerl>boots up, does LUKS/overlayfs magic to put readonly root + read/write overlay onto / , then starts up s6 and starts stuff up
22:55<akerl>gregwork: You'd be shocked how many folks run Linode's centos7 image and haven't fretted how terrible its lack of lvm is
22:55<purrdeta>I ran Linode's CentOS image for quite some time and never bothered to give a damn about LVM in fact
22:56<akerl>In all honesty, if I could purge any chunk of memory from my mind, I'd *keep* middle school history classes and purge LVM instead
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22:56<akerl>Which reminds me, I ought to look into these btrfs subvolumes or whatever so I can get rid of LVM from these servers
22:56<purrdeta>btrfs is weird.
22:59<gregwork>is there a compiled list of alterations linode made to the centos 7 image
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22:59<akerl>Not that I've ever seen
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23:04<gregwork>how do backups work on linode
23:04<James_T>they run
23:04<gregwork>since i dont have lvm i cant create a read-only snapshot, i also dont have a method of quiescing the disk
23:05<akerl>gregwork: Assuming you enable the Backup Service, roughly like this:
23:05<akerl>gregwork: You do realize that you have root, and can thus install LVM / munge your disk images / etc to your hearts content, yes?
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23:06<akerl>If you don't want to use the backup service, backups work however you'd like to do them; you have root, and backing up your data is entirely in your court
23:07<gregwork>yes, i realize i can do that. I just never thought anyone would unlearn the last 15 years and remove something as elementary as the volume manager from a disk image that was meant to be extra convenient for me
23:07-!-murdock [~ceph@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:07<akerl>Ah, I must have missed the day in middle school history where they went over how important LVM was to the fate of the universe
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23:09<James_T>gregwork: your disk images are on top of lvm
23:09<James_T>i (therefore) run lvm on luks on lvm ;)
23:11<gregwork>right, i was just not expecting such a hacked up centos image .. should at least rename or warn people that this really isnt cannon at all
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23:12<akerl>You make it sound like they took scissors to it. It's the CentOS image, cajoled onto Linode disk images. They didn't just run 'round the boat tossing things overboard for fun
23:13<jrhunt>that's how i build virtual images.
23:13<jrhunt>it's a genetic algorithm
23:14<gregwork>what is the boot loader for linode
23:14<gregwork>since /boot is empty
23:15<akerl>As per your config profile in the Linode Manager, Xen loads a kernel from the host and boots that, no guest-side bootloader involved
23:16<gregwork>how do you pass boot arguments to the kernel
23:16-!-sivy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:16<akerl>You do not
23:16<akerl>If you're interested in running a custom kernel,
23:17<gregwork>noop deadline [cfq]
23:17<gregwork>the first thing i went to change was the disk elevator for this guest
23:17<gregwork>since its a guest and on an ssd
23:17<gregwork>i should use noop
23:17<gregwork>hence my confusion at there then being no boot loader
23:18<akerl>Welcome to xen paravirt
23:18<gregwork>i dont understand your comment
23:18-!-Entomo [] has joined #linode
23:18<gregwork>what does being in a paravirtualized guest under xen have to do with my guest using cfq
23:19<gregwork>cfq is the wrong scheduler for being a virtual guest
23:19-!-dmarr [] has joined #linode
23:19<gregwork>almost any scheduler is if you are a guest
23:19<gregwork>you want the host to figure out how to handle the io
23:19<akerl>Xen is the virtualization platform which Linodes use, and "paravirtualization" is a mode of operation for virtual machines on xen wherein the guest uses paravirtualized drivers. One of the facets of this approach is that in most configurations, the host supplies the kernel for the guest, unless custom tools like pv-grub are used to pull a kernel from the guest FS
23:20-!-bbankes [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:20<akerl>And the host is figuring out how to handle I/O, as part of the whole "paravirtualized drivers" bit
23:20<akerl>I'd suggest leaving cfq and focusing on larger fish
23:22<ctpdump>interesting point, so, if I'm using pv-grub, should I care about the scheduler (and possibly discard or fstrim)? or is it something that's done by the host?
23:22<gregwork>so cfq is the default scheduler of the linux kernel, this guest booting up with cfq is a lack of arguments being passed to the kernel so the defaults are being used. While I agree there are most likely bigger fish to fry it serves as another example of where this image has pruned away some simple tuning
23:22<akerl>The kernel is compiled by Linode and distro-agnostic
23:23<akerl>It's using cfq because the person who compiled it chose that
23:23<virtual>I thought they chose that to annoy anyone who wanted different?
23:24<akerl>ctpdump: As far as any testing I've seen, discard/fstrim you definitely don't have to care about, and I've never seen any evidence of the scheduler on the guest kernel actually affecting perf
23:24*akerl checks what he's using
23:25<akerl>Yup, cfq
23:25<gregwork>because it has been the default in the mainline linux kernel since 2.6.18 ?
23:25<virtual>Is it default now?
23:25<gregwork>not optimal for virtual guests
23:26<akerl>gregwork: citation?
23:26<virtual>Have you actually seen a problem because of this, or are you just assuming?
23:27<gregwork>when we were doing benchmarks with kvm and vmware both performed poorly when the guest was set to cfq
23:28<akerl>Linode does not use KVM or VMWare
23:28<virtual>And with Xen?
23:28<Eugene>It's a good thing Linode isn't either of those things
23:28<gregwork>the concept is the same
23:28<Eugene>It really isn't.
23:28<Eugene>But don't let facts get in the way of your argument
23:28<virtual>VMWare is not paravirt.
23:28<Eugene>And neither is KVM, unless you're really careful
23:29<akerl>gregwork: You seem to have come in here determined to be very upset at every decision Linode has made. It doesn't seem like a worthwhile endeavour, all things considered.
23:29-!-fstd_ [] has joined #linode
23:30<gregwork>akerl: nah, this has been entertaining so far
23:30-!-sivy [] has joined #linode
23:32<virtual>If this counts for entertainment... Heh.
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23:35<virtual>nate: did you get to the bottom of your issue? I'm curious. :)
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23:48<gregwork>Eugene: unless you're really careful ?
23:49<gregwork>nobody intentionally chooses to not use virtio for network and disk
23:52<James_T>my fitbit gave me a badge!
23:52<James_T>internet points for walking
23:52<virtual>lol James_T.
23:52<James_T>what next?
23:53<virtual>Internet points for sleeping.
23:53<James_T>it does that too!
23:53<virtual>heh, tis why I mentioned it. :)
23:54<virtual>You reminded me, I should charge mine. It's been discharged for a month or so.
23:59<James_T>virtual: so, if you had a visible light allergy...
23:59<James_T>you can't use a fitbit
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---Logclosed Tue Mar 17 00:00:12 2015