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#linode IRC Logs for 2015-08-30

---Logopened Sun Aug 30 00:00:13 2015
---Daychanged Sun Aug 30 2015
00:00<polack>I may just go with centos
00:00<kuzetsa>heh ok
00:00<polack>I dont need to make things to complicated
00:00<polack>too*
00:01<kuzetsa>I'm biased, and feel like using anything non-gentoo is more complicated (but mostly because I'm inexperienced with everything else but gentoo lol)
00:02<dcraig>isn't it really optimized?
00:02<kuzetsa>dcraig: probably not?
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00:03<kuzetsa>most of the "better optimized" gentoo stuff is just having a less old compiler for building packages than what the build teams use for most distros
00:03<kuzetsa>tweaking configure options and cflags is placebo most of the time, but unless you botch things with that it's probably no worse than using defaults :)
00:05<polack>is it easy to screw up gentoo when going through the stages?
00:05<kuzetsa>there are no stages
00:05<kuzetsa>there's "stage"
00:05<kuzetsa>stage1 / stage2 haven't been supported since like 2006 or so
00:06<kuzetsa>you start with stage3 these days, period.
00:06<polack>what is stage 1 again?
00:06<kuzetsa>it's ready to use at stage3 if you have a working kernel
00:06<kuzetsa>stage1 is to build your own compiler and system libc, etc. etc. etc.
00:07<kuzetsa>stage2 is to add some more system packages required to have a working gentoo-style build system
00:07<kuzetsa>and stage3 just adds a little more like a working init system (openrc, systemd, whatever)
00:07<polack>hmm ok
00:08<kuzetsa>starting from anything more primative than stage3 rarely added more customization or configuration choices where anyone might get better-working or more optimized results
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00:09<polack>I wonder if there is any performance increase with optimized gentoo
00:09<dcraig>so by "rarely" you mean "occasionally"?
00:09<kuzetsa>polack: if you're really curious what stage1 / stage2 was about, this is pretty accurate about the historical nature of what the older install method had:
00:09<kuzetsa>http://badpenguins.com/gentoo-build-test/
00:10<polack>thx
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00:13<kuzetsa>neat
00:13<kuzetsa>apparently I was wrong
00:13<kuzetsa>stage1 / stage2 was deprecated in 2005, not 2006 lol
00:16<dcraig>OH SNAP
00:17<avenj>I do recall doing stage1 installs on a k6-2
00:17<avenj>awesome times
00:17<kuzetsa>heh
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02:49<x86_64>hey
02:52<x86_64>can i upgrade to a higher plan if i select a lower plan before?
02:53<retro|blah>Yes
02:54<x86_64>great then
03:00<x86_64>in the ¨features¨ page, i see that you choose your distro and stuff... does this mean i can have a number virtual machines like in vmware or something?
03:01<tburke>you can create as many linode VMs as you'd like, yes
03:02<x86_64>under the set specs i paid for correct?
03:02<tburke>no, each VM you create is individually billed
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03:03<x86_64>hmm
03:03<x86_64>so i choose my VM in the plans
03:03<tburke>yes
03:04<x86_64>ah
03:04<x86_64>so they charge per month, i see...
03:04<x86_64>can we have it charge per year?
03:05<Kyhwana>x86_64: nope, per month only now
03:05<tburke>you can prepay for a year's credit
03:05<x86_64>ok, thanks
03:05<tburke>np
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03:14<x86_64>hmmm
03:14<x86_64>linode insists i try it for 7 days for free, is this normal?
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03:21<synapt>x86_64: That's otherwise the pseudo-trial period, you have 7 days to determine if you like linode or not
03:21<synapt>if at any point you're not satisified within the first 7 days you can get your money back
03:25<x86_64>cool
03:25<x86_64>can i start trying anytime i am comfortable with?
03:26<x86_64>i just created my account but for the coming week, i have a full schedule
03:26<dcraig>you might want to open a ticket and ask
03:27<synapt>Yeah not sure exactly when the 7 days start
03:27<synapt>from the start of the account opening or the start of the first linode purchase, so definitely file a ticket and ask
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03:30<bevin>Why linode doesn't let me get my old data back?
03:30<bevin>I've been using a linode child account bought from a china reseller
03:31<Kyhwana>.. because you don't own the linode account?
03:31<bevin>But recently you guys closed his account, when I ask him about it, he says his account is frozen
03:31<Kyhwana>you'll have to go through your reseller
03:31<bevin>He can't get the data back, he says
03:31<bevin>You didn't let him
03:31<Kyhwana>Well, why don't you restore from your backups?
03:32<dcraig>yeah right :D
03:32<Kyhwana>inb4 no backups: And now you've just learnt a valuable lesson
03:32<bevin>Well, as I said, I was using a child account
03:32<Kyhwana>Doesn't matter
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03:32<x86_64>tor :p
03:32<bevin>What does that mean?
03:33<x86_64>brb
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03:33<dcraig>your only business relationship is with this reseller, so you'll have to work with them
03:33<Kyhwana>bevin: it means you should restore from your backups, since there's nothing linode can do for you
03:33<bevin>You closed my account, how am I supposed to restore anything
03:33<bevin>?!
03:33<bevin>I can't log into my IP anymore
03:33<dcraig>you never had a linode account
03:33<Kyhwana>bevin: it's not your account? and you restore from your own offsite backups
03:33<Ikaros>No, what was closed was the master account.
03:34<bevin>Even ping doesn't work
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03:34<Ikaros>And therefore child accounts go away as well
03:34<bevin>Yes that's what I mean
03:34<bevin>The master account is closed
03:34<bevin>Now his problem becomes mine
03:34<Ikaros>Linode cannot do anything for you then. Your reseller is the only one able to do anything.
03:35<Kyhwana>bevin: your problem is your own, since you don't seem to have any offsite (non-linode_ backups. Suck it up and do better next time
03:36<bevin>I was paying on time, while my account is closed, so you tell me that's my mistake?
03:36*Kyhwana uses this as a good time to check his backups
03:36<Ikaros>Your mistake was not backing your own data up.
03:36<Kyhwana>bevin: were you paying linode directly?
03:36<bevin>No, I can't
03:36<dcraig>maybe the reseller offered some backup services...
03:36<bevin>I can't pay directly from china
03:36<synapt>Does linode even have official reselling plans?
03:36<dcraig>wow, there must be this whole gray market for linodes...
03:36<Kyhwana>bevin: then your problem is with the reseller, get them to reimburse you
03:37<synapt>Linode didn't close your account
03:37<bevin>Opening an paypal account is awfully hard here
03:37<synapt>the chinese dude either did or did something to have his account closed
03:37<Ikaros>Which means he screwed you.
03:37<synapt>either which way you technically weren't paying linode so you weren't a linode customer
03:37<bevin>OK, guess I should have a talk with him again
03:37<synapt>also linode doesn't even accept paypal
03:38<synapt>so opening a paypal account should be largely irrelevant
03:38<synapt>lol
03:38<Ikaros>That would be your only option at this point since he's the one that had the master account, and thus he's the one paying.
03:38<dcraig>Ikaros, can I buy a linode through you?
03:38<Ikaros>dcraig: Sure if you don't mind me charging you like 10x list price
03:39<dcraig>you can charge 2x if you provide some value-added services :D
03:39<Ikaros>No deal.
03:39<Ikaros>Anyway
03:39<dcraig>like if you log in once a month and type apt-get upgrade
03:40<Ikaros>bevin: Lesson learned, always back your data up independently, to your own system...situations like the one you're in now are the reason why that's so, SO important.
03:41<bevin>Guess I should think of something from now on
03:43<dcraig>it's always good to think of things
03:43*arlen thinks of dcraig
03:44<dcraig>I do sympathize with people who live in countries where it is difficult to buy linodes...
03:44<dcraig>that's not a life I'd want to live
03:45<Ikaros>Where it's difficult to get your hands on things others can obtain so easily?
03:45<Ikaros>I agree...that's got to be a sucky life.
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05:34<XF>hello
05:34<XF>anone on?
05:34<XF>anyone*
05:35<XF>when i do ip route add ::/0 dev he-ipv6
05:35<XF>while doing tunnel broker
05:35<XF>it says RTNETLINK file exists
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05:37<Celti>Why do you need a v6 tunnel on your Linode? Linode has native IPv6
05:38<XF>ik
05:38<XF>the one ipv6 i added in interfaces isnt working on my znc
05:39<XF>so a staff said to do tunnel
05:40<Kyhwana>o.o
05:40<Kyhwana>Your ZNC is on your linode?
05:40<XF>yup?
05:41<eric>XF I run ZNC on Linode as well.
05:41<eric>No issues with IPv6.
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05:42<XF>eric can i pm u?
05:42<eric>Sure!
05:42<Kyhwana>XF: did you follow the guide? (I think there's a guide)
05:43<XF>ik
05:43<XF>i follow
05:43<XF>the native ipv6 guide
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11:01<michelem>hello folks
11:01<michelem>does Linode containers allow FreeBSD?
11:02-!-aspis [~aspis@0001b93f.user.oftc.net] has joined #linode
11:02<kcaj>There isn't a template for it michelem
11:02<akerl>Linodes *can* run freebsd, but it's not officially supported
11:03<HoopyCat>it's probably easier and more reliable now with KVM than it was with Xen
11:05<@Rainbow>michelem, While unsupported, FreeBSD can be run
11:06<@Rainbow>michelem, this forum post may be able to help you https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=12143&p=68095#p68095
11:07<akerl>Rainbow: minor question: if I skip step 1 now that glish is a thing, where do I get my image for step 3?
11:09<@Rainbow>akerl, ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/10.2/FreeBSD-10.2-RELEASE-amd64-memstick.img
11:09<@Rainbow>:)
11:09<akerl>My point is that your note might want to be amended to say that glish lets you skip step 2, not 1+2
11:09<akerl>:)
11:10<@Rainbow>akerl, since you can curl the image and pipe to D from rescue mode (since you no longer need to modify the image) it DOES let you skip step one ;)
11:10<@Rainbow>* pipe to dd
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11:13<+linbot>New news from forum: Feature Request/Bug Report • Nodebalancer http -> https redirect <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=12220&p=68319#p68319>
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11:28<michelem>thank you
11:33<kuzetsa>[11:04:02] <HoopyCat> it's probably easier and more reliable now with KVM than it was with Xen <<< are linodes still xen by default?
11:34<HoopyCat>kuzetsa: it's account-specific; i believe new accounts are surely KVM
11:34*kuzetsa pokes blog.linode.com
11:35<kuzetsa>https://blog.linode.com/2015/06/16/linode-turns-12-heres-some-kvm/ <<< hmm, doesn't say if I'll be able to continue using my custom kernel :(
11:35<akerl>On KVM?
11:36<HoopyCat>Linux aprihop 4.1.1-sodtech #60 SMP PREEMPT Tue Jun 30 01:36:00 UTC 2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
11:36<HoopyCat>that reminds me, i'm due for a new spin
11:36<akerl>Sure, assuming you have the kvm config bits enabled
11:36<@Rainbow>kuzetsa, the drop-in replacement for pv-grub is Grub Legacy
11:37<akerl>full disclosure: grub legacy is grub2 in legacy mode, so if you like to manually edit boot opts, it's more confusing
11:37<@Rainbow>if you have the KVM virtio bits enabled in your kernel, you'll be fine. if not, temporarily use Full virtualization to boot, and recompile :)
11:37<kuzetsa>Rainbow: is that serverside or does it continue working with my existing config?
11:37<kuzetsa>err, client(guest) is what I meant
11:37<@Rainbow>kuzetsa, it's an option in the new configuration profile options once on a KVM host
11:37<@Rainbow>i can screencap both and show you if you like
11:37<kuzetsa>hmm
11:37<kuzetsa>I don't feel like rebuilding kernel today
11:38<kuzetsa>but sure, link please for screenshot :)
11:38<akerl>kuzetsa: Your existing kernel / boot/grub/menu.lst file will work, assuming you have the necessary opts turned on for kvm/scsi/etc
11:38<kuzetsa>you highlighted me once in the past few minutes mentioning KVM so I'm sure I'll be able to find it in the scrollbuffer / logs hehe
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11:39<kuzetsa>akerl: I'm pretty sure unless it's a difficult to find / difficult to disable default setting, I wouldn't have enabled (or left enabled) KVM when I was expecting a xen host
11:39<akerl>Yea, that's what I ran into :P
11:40<akerl>I'd disabled pretty much everything I could and have it still boot, had to do a few rounds finding the args to fix it
11:40<kuzetsa>nod
11:40<kuzetsa>I have a vmware (vagrant) container kernel I need to fix first
11:40<kuzetsa>for android builds o_O
11:41<akerl>Oh, also: hvc0 becomes ttyS0, so that's something you want to change in your menu.lst *first*, so you end up with text-on-console instead of "wow, this black screen probably means it didn't work"
11:41<akerl>(which is what I did)
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11:41<@Rainbow>kuzetsa, http://cloudsdale.ponix.space/~rainbow/images/pvgrub.png http://cloudsdale.ponix.space/~rainbow/images/kvm.png
11:41<kuzetsa>thanks
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11:42<kuzetsa>scary
11:42<akerl>Rainbow: Any reason it's in the deprecated list?
11:42<kuzetsa>"deprecated" implies it won't be an option in the future O_O
11:42<akerl>^^
11:42<@Rainbow>akerl, Grub Legacy? I can't say that I know, but we won't be getting rid of Grub Legacy any time soon AFAIK
11:42<HoopyCat>given that 2.6.18.8-x86_64-linode1 is still in the deprecated list for xen...
11:42<kuzetsa>just so you know -- if I can't boot my own kernel down the road I'm going with someone other than linode
11:42<akerl>That seems to conflict with the definition of deprecated :)
11:43<@Rainbow>kuzetsa, that will never be a concern, as far as I am aware :)
11:43<kuzetsa>that'd be 100% dealbreaker for me
11:43<@Rainbow>Even if, for some reason, you lost the ability to use Grub Legacy or Grub2, there's always direct disk :3
11:43<kuzetsa>the heck is direct disk?
11:43<HoopyCat>kuzetsa: given the "GRUB 2" and "Direct Disk" options under "Current", as well as the Full-virtualization choice for VM Mode, i think there's probably more options for running a kernel now than there was with xen
11:43<kuzetsa>I... know nothing about kvm :(
11:44<HoopyCat>kuzetsa: jump to the MBR
11:44<kuzetsa>oh
11:44<kuzetsa>I wasn't aware KVM could do such things
11:44<kuzetsa>huh
11:44<HoopyCat>kuzetsa: https://www.linode.com/docs/platform/kvm has misc scoop
11:44<@Rainbow>kuzetsa, mmhmm! You can load your own bootloader, if say you have a custom setup
11:45<kuzetsa>HoopyCat: oh, the https://blog.linode.com/2015/06/16/linode-turns-12-heres-some-kvm/ <<< this uh... didn't link to that KVM docs page AFAIK
11:45<@Rainbow>For example, I run FreeBSD on my Linode, using Direct Disk
11:45<kuzetsa>HoopyCat: thanks for pointing out something I didn't know based on the linode blog announcement O_O
11:46<HoopyCat>caker: 11:45 < kuzetsa> HoopyCat: oh, the https://blog.linode.com/2015/06/16/linode-turns-12-heres-some-kvm/ <<< this uh... didn't link to that KVM docs page AFAIK
11:47<kuzetsa>caker: I just checked, and it doesn't (link to >>> https://www.linode.com/docs/platform/kvm <<< Very Important [tm] info)
11:47<kuzetsa>v_v
11:49<kuzetsa>I really don't want to fix this stupid vagrant container with a non-booting kernel, but I also don't want to abandon the vagrant-based android development toolchain container thingy 'cause like... there's absolutely no way I could afford to use linode for building this -- it takes several tens of gigabytes of storage for the source (which would need redownloaded every time if reprovisioning
11:49<kuzetsa>fresh was a thing and I rented linode hourly or whatever) and it requires absurd amounts of RAM
11:49-!-michelem [~oftc-webi@xdsl-31-165-80-6.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
11:50<kuzetsa>this 1.3ghz laptop barely has enough ram & disk to build android from source, so I'll be passing the toolchain off to "somewhere else" in the form of a vagrant container to do the heavy lifting lol
11:50*kuzetsa glares at vague kernel issue one last time and walks off to go have coffee / breakfast
11:51<kuzetsa>(that's unrelated to linode / KVM-kernel thing... higher prioririty for this weekend though)
11:57<kuzetsa>https://www.linode.com/docs/assets/kvm_upgrade_context.png <<< hmm, my linode manager "upgrade" thing doesn't mention KVM
11:57<kuzetsa>and when I click it, just says:
11:57<kuzetsa>Linodes with configuration profiles referencing a 32 bit kernel are currently not eligible for this upgrade. For more information please see our switching kernels guide, or redeploy this Linode using a 64 bit distro.
11:58<@Rainbow>kuzetsa, you're currently on a legacy Linode. You'll need to migrate to your most current hardware before you receive an offer for the KVM upgrade,
11:58<kuzetsa>I decided to check / try to find out and see if the KVM upgrade was even an option for me since I'm on one of the older grandfathered octocore (8 vCPU) / 1 GB ram linodes
11:58<kuzetsa>yeah no, screw that
11:58<kuzetsa>thanks anyway O_O
11:58<kuzetsa>this hardware is plenty "current" (fast)
11:58<@Rainbow>kuzetsa, in a nutshell, shut down your Linode, temporarily swap your configuration profile to latest 64 bit, migrate, accept KVM migration, switch configuration profile to grub Legacy, boot :)
11:59<@Rainbow>heh
11:59<kuzetsa>migration would mean less vCPUs
11:59<@Rainbow>s/your/our
11:59<kuzetsa>I think this still counts as "current hardware" >>> Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2670 (/proc/cpuinfo)
12:00<Nivex>fewer vCPUs, but better contention management as I understand it
12:00<dzho>oh, right. I knew there was something else in the way of my upgrading.
12:00<kuzetsa>when I said "older" I was referring to the plan
12:00<kuzetsa>Nivex: I'm not getting any contention though
12:01<HoopyCat>kuzetsa: still on rotational disks, old network, and half the RAM per unit price... linode hardware is more than CPUs
12:01<kuzetsa>2.72% "steal" / 6.23% "user" / 2.17% "softirq" <<< my current host doesn't have contention issues :)
12:01<kuzetsa>idle @ 785% hehe
12:02<kuzetsa>if the steal was higher I might actually worry
12:02<kuzetsa>HoopyCat: nah, the disk bottleneck isn't one I'm being slowed down by
12:02<HoopyCat>eh, it's only one order of magnitude higher than mine :-)
12:03<kuzetsa>yeah, but your limit for CPU workqueues and stuff (upper limit) is several orders of magntiude worse
12:03<rnowak>oO
12:03<HoopyCat>true, but at least i can scale up to 20 cores ;-)
12:04<kuzetsa>convincing me that less CPU cores is better just isn't gonna happen when my "steal" CPU time is less than 6 cores worth :)
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12:04<kuzetsa>significantly less than a tenth of one CPU core... no
12:04<kuzetsa>no on the migration (just no)
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12:06<HoopyCat>as long as the old hardware is still running, it'll probably still be running
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12:06*Peng unplugs HoopyCat
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12:07<kuzetsa>the stuff I run is cpu-bound
12:07<kuzetsa>so calling the hardware "old" just because the disk it's on isn't SSD seems counterintuitive to me :)
12:07<HoopyCat>kuzetsa: well, what do you call it when it isn't the current generation of hardware?
12:08<kcaj>But Linode backups are still stored on HDDs :0
12:08<kuzetsa>better value, since it's faster considering how the CPU is nearly the exact same CPU in terms of "generation of hardware", but would be less cores
12:08<HoopyCat>linode doesn't publicly expose numbers for them; best we've got is "crazy old" from long ago, "nextgen" which is the generation in question, and "cloud" which is either xen or kvm
12:09<HoopyCat>calling it "nextgen" seems... awkward, since it's the previous gen
12:09<kuzetsa>heh
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12:10<kuzetsa>either way -- for my usage case, I'll gladly take half the ram with 8x vCPUs on the E5-2670 over "might be faster because SSD and KVM"
12:10<HoopyCat>kuzetsa: at least you're not on the L5520s... those were stinkers
12:10<kuzetsa>I was on those a few years ago
12:10<kuzetsa>pre-nextgen was kinda ... meh
12:11<Peng>I have an L5630 still >_>
12:11<HoopyCat>or was it the L5630s? one of those was an absolute stinker
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12:11<kuzetsa>Peng: still on that because of the vCPU thinger?
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12:12<Peng>HoopyCat: I thought they were both equally stinky?
12:12<kuzetsa>pretty sure the reason I got put on a host with new CPU was that I was in one of the hardware betas
12:12<HoopyCat>the E5-2670s were quasistank in practice precisely because of the 8 vCPU thing, but now that they've thinned out a lot, they're probably fine (as evidenced)
12:13<Peng>kuzetsa: Laziness mostly. At the moment I do need better single-threaded performance, but also don't want to lose the cores.
12:13<kuzetsa>then the host running the beta hardware configuration (they opted to do full SSD instead) got shut down so they had to put me on hardware with at least as modern for the CPU
12:14<HoopyCat>kuzetsa: your hardware: https://blog.linode.com/2013/03/18/linode-nextgen-the-hardware/
12:14<kuzetsa>HoopyCat: yes, that's what I'm on -- it's plenty fast :)
12:15<HoopyCat>'cuz there's like two linodes left on it :-)
12:16<kuzetsa>yep
12:17<dzho>kuzetsa's and mine, maybe :\
12:18<kuzetsa>and because it's "old" hardware, rather unlikely any new guests will show up to compete with my sporadic / spikey workload with more interupt and timing and latency requirements (and runs in-ram) than anything to do with disk access speeds
12:18-!-mega_ [~oftc-webi@subs12-223-255-228-110.three.co.id] has joined #linode
12:18<mega_>hi linode
12:18<kuzetsa>I tend to feel that I'm doing it right when 1 GB ram is plenty to keep my usual workload 100% in-ram :)
12:18<dzho>mega_: hi
12:19<kuzetsa>also, I vaguely remember 512 was ok (when I first got a linode it was half as much ram)
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12:20<kuzetsa>oh snap, it's dzho
12:20<mega_>hi dzho, i saw the tutorial on hosting a website on linode's website, and i feel that it overwhelms me with long detail explanation. do i really need to do that?
12:21<kuzetsa>how's roch today?
12:21<mega_>is there any default service for that?
12:21<dzho>mega_: if it overwhelms you, you probably need it all the more.
12:21<mega_>hehehe
12:21<dzho>mega_: to be honest, though, I know little to nothing of the tutorials.
12:22<mega_>i'm new to linux
12:22<dzho>mega_: then you might want to take it slowly and carefully. Also, you might want to install linux somewhere on a local machine, isolated or protected from the network, to get some basics in hand.
12:22<kuzetsa>if you're comfortable installing putty (to be able to use the port forwarding) using webmin or some other configuration GUI securely over a SSH tunnel is a good choice
12:23<dzho>seek out a local linux user group, etc
12:23<dzho>webmin, the third rail of linode
12:23<mega_>yeah i think so
12:23<mega_>but, dont they have cpanel?
12:24<dzho>not really
12:24<HoopyCat>they include a license with their managed service, or you can buy a cpanel license directly from cpanel (or a cpanel reseller)
12:24<dzho>you can install cpanel, or I think it comes with the much-more-expensive managed service.
12:24<kuzetsa>http://cherokee-project.com/doc/other_faq.html <<< see section: "How to access cherokee-admin from a remote machine"
12:24<kuzetsa>cherokee (and the friendly web-gui, securely forwarded over ssh tunnel) is lovely
12:25<mega_>hmmm so cpanel is not free then
12:25<dzho>not in the least
12:25<dzho>"securely forwarded over ssh tunnel" does not strike me as a newb task.
12:25<kuzetsa>cpanel / WHM might be more friendly and easy to use, but it costs WAY more than "free"
12:25<mega_>what is cherokee? is that cpanel alternative?
12:25<dzho>a web server
12:25<kuzetsa>cherokee is a web server which has a web-based configuration interface
12:25<kuzetsa>no manual editing of config files
12:26<dzho>huh. TIL.
12:26-!-Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #linode
12:26<mega_>hahaha so it's a linode alternative then?
12:26<kuzetsa>also, if most of the content on your site is static (not PHP or other cgi) cherokee has some of the best throughput / speed / request handling capacity out there
12:27<kuzetsa>mega_: no, I'm running cherokee on my linode
12:27<HoopyCat>linode is not a web host. you are the web host
12:27<kuzetsa>hmm
12:27<kuzetsa>I think what HoopyCat is trying to say:
12:27<dzho>heh
12:27<mega_>hmmm
12:27<Xel>Don't paraphrase HoopyCat
12:27<Xel>HoopyCat: will cut you
12:27<kuzetsa>all web hosts (web sites) run on servers
12:28<mega_>hahahah
12:28<Xel>He will cut you good
12:28<Xel>Tell em HoopyCat
12:28<kuzetsa>linode just provides a server (infrastructure) you can use to host a web site, or any other thing you would want to use a server for
12:28<kuzetsa>to say "you are the web host" means you use your linode as the server to do the web hosting :)
12:29<dzho>linode gives you access to a virtual machine only. You can put on that machine whatever you want and can.
12:29<kuzetsa>cherokee is one way to do that, but cpanel / WHM is another (more expensive) choice a lot of people prefer because it's easy to use -- linode doesn't sell cpanel licenses though
12:29<@Rainbow>mega_, my advice to anyone new to UNIX in general is jump right in. Install things. Break things. Read things. manpages are your best friend, #linode is your second best friend. :)
12:29<mega_>yeahh
12:29<Xel>Rainbow: Not on the internet though
12:30<Xel>That's how we get more pwned servers to attack us
12:30<@Rainbow>Xel, oh, I of course meant a machine segregated from the net :P
12:30<mega_>it's a looong way then for me to use linode
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12:30<dzho>mega_: glad you said it :-)
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12:30<mega_>hehehehe
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12:31<kuzetsa>I like using gravy on my bacon to make the salty
12:31<@Rainbow>mega_, if you need help, I'm sure most people in here are happy to put you on the right track, even if you're not a linode customer yet. I know I'm happy to :)
12:31<mega_>i thought i can start like i use Digital ocean
12:31<dzho>uh.
12:31<mega_>yes, thank you
12:31<kuzetsa>dzho: salty salty
12:31<kuzetsa>perhaps my brain O_O
12:31<dzho>mega_: you *can* but the question is still whether you *should*
12:32<dzho>and then, if you do, how you go about it.
12:32<mega_>i just read a forum stating that linode is way faster than DO
12:32<dzho>you can put up a linux server on linode following the directions and using stackscripts and so on.
12:32<HoopyCat>digital ocean and linode are essentially identical from a what-you-get standpoint; they both give you servers, which you do things on (e.g. building a web host)
12:32<dzho>heh. faster can be good, unless you crash.
12:33<dzho>then it hurts more :\
12:33<mega_>hahahaha
12:33<mega_>i crash
12:33<mega_>learning ssh tunnel
12:33<@Rainbow>HoopyCat, except we're like 50000% more awesome :3
12:33<mega_>and command
12:34<HoopyCat>Rainbow: yes, of course. :-)
12:34<dzho>(Objects in Rainbow claims may appear larger)
12:34<mega_>hahaha
12:35<mega_>you guys are funny too
12:35<HoopyCat>it's the same linux
12:35<dzho>mega_: if you have access to a beefy enough laptop or desktop, consider installing something like VirtualBox, and install a linux distro on that.
12:35<xand>every time I try to use RIPE whois from one of my linode VMs it says I'm blocked due to excessive usage, which is nonsense... anyone know if they're likely blocking the /64 my IPv6 address is in?
12:36<mega_>dzho, i'll study your suggestion
12:36<HoopyCat>xand: yes, because they assume a /64 is a single customer because -- paradoxically -- they're morons
12:36<mega_>hhahahaha
12:37<Peng>xand: Pick up a /64 from Linode to avoid stupid blocks.
12:37<Peng>stupid bans*
12:37<xand>hmm
12:37*kuzetsa facepalms
12:37*dzho wanders afk
12:38<kuzetsa>[12:36:27] <HoopyCat> xand: yes, because they assume a /64 is a single customer because -- paradoxically -- they're morons <<< amazing O_O
12:40<mega_>so, why doesnt linode use cpanel? or atleast make their own version of cpanel?
12:41<HoopyCat>i'm sure every device in their offices has its own /64
12:41*HoopyCat adds "twitter-shame RIPE for their /64 assumption" to his todo list
12:41<xand>mega_: why would they?
12:41<xand>mega_: linode isn't a web-hosting service
12:41<Peng_>HoopyCat: heh
12:41<xand>it's a VM (VPS) provider
12:41<kuzetsa>mega_: there are opensource alternatives, also... a lot of people who use linode servers use them for things unrelated to web hosting
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12:41<kuzetsa>for that matter, you can buy a cpanel license
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12:42<kuzetsa>linode is compatible with cpanel
12:42<mega_>well if you want to host website, it easier to do that
12:42<xand>mega_: linode provide the VM and the OS that runs in it
12:42<xand>mega_: the idea is you run the machine yourself. you can install cpanel if you wish.
12:42<kuzetsa>I have a good analogy
12:42<mega_>ooooo
12:43<xand>(not gonna start on how people running servers shouldn't be relying on software like cpanel :D)
12:43<kuzetsa>sometimes a cellphone carrier pre-installs lots of apps on the smartphones which can't be uninstalled even if you don't need or want to use them
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12:44<mega_>yes, good analogy
12:44<kuzetsa>a lot of people feel like you can always add things later, so there's no harm in NOT including things by default, but the phone carriers are kinda ... actually I'm not gonna talk smack about that right now
12:44<mega_>hehehehe
12:44<kuzetsa>either way, cpanel is compatible, and runs fine on linode
12:45-!-sparticle [~oftc-webi@no-dns-yet.demon.co.uk] has joined #linode
12:45<sparticle>hi
12:45<sparticle>is it possible to add more disk apce to my 2gb linode
12:46<mega_>but still ssh command is way too complicated for newbie like me
12:46<kuzetsa>https://www.linode.com/stackscripts/view/11078 <<< Compatible with: CentOS 7, CentOS 6.5 (if you use that for your linode, it should work fine)
12:47<kuzetsa>(linode still supports centos 7)
12:47<mega_>is that cpanle?
12:48<mega_>is that free?
12:48<Cromulent>sparticle: no you need to upgrade your plan
12:49<kuzetsa>mega_: cpanel is expensive --- https://store.cpanel.net/
12:49<kuzetsa>linode isn't spending money on licenses for that, since cpanel charges more for licenses than a lot of the more affordable linode plans
12:50<Cromulent>plus cPanel kinda sucks
12:50<mega_>yeah I think so too
12:50<mega_>so what is that cpanel by professional in stackscript?
12:51<kuzetsa>it just downloads and installs cpanel
12:51<kuzetsa>you still need to configure the license for it though, otherwise it won't run
12:51<mega_>oooo
12:52<kuzetsa>it's up to you if you feel like spening more for the cpanel license than the cost of your linode O_O
12:52<mega_>hahahaha
12:52<kuzetsa>personally, I'm glad linode doesn't charge extra (passing the cost on to the customers) to include something I wouldn't personally be using
12:52<mega_>not going to
12:53-!-sparticle [~oftc-webi@no-dns-yet.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:54<mega_>yea..I'm newbie and familiar only with cpanel
12:54<mega_>i think i should start to study more advance command lie ssh
12:55<kuzetsa>yeah
12:55<mega_>linux in my image is for professional and hackers
12:55<mega_>hehehhe
12:55<kuzetsa>sure
12:55<kuzetsa>http://cherokee-project.com/doc/other_bundle_cherokee-admin.html <<< it's really nice (the web admin works great, and it's a fast web server too)
12:55<mega_>you are one of the hackers?
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12:56<kuzetsa>[quote] "In the programmer subculture of hackers, a hacker is a person who follows a spirit of playful cleverness and loves programming. It is found in an originally academic movement unrelated to computer security and most visibly associated with free software and open source. It also has a hacker ethic, based on the idea that writing software and sharing the result on a voluntary basis is a
12:56<kuzetsa>good idea, and that information should be free, but that it's not up to the hacker to make it free by breaking into private computer systems." <<< wikipedia @ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(term)#Programmer_subculture_of_hackers
12:56<kuzetsa>sure, I'm a hacker :)
12:56<HoopyCat>i go to 2600 meetings, collect staff shirts from hacker conferences, and am on the board of directors for a hackerspace. people have called me a "hacker"
12:57<xinming>Is there a problem for japanese linode servers?
12:57<kuzetsa>HoopyCat: but do you ever wear a black hat D:
12:57<mega_>woowowow great people i met now
12:57<xinming>I can't connect to my linode with ssh
12:57<xinming>and I found that in rrdtool output of my linode.
12:58<kuzetsa>xinming: does lish work?
12:58<Peng>Great Firewall?
12:58<xinming>It seems that sometimes my linode is not responding
12:58<HoopyCat>xinming: no other reports here yet. what does mtr/traceroute look like?
12:58<xinming>hmm, I'll torubleshoot it tomorrow
12:58<xinming>thanks
12:58<xinming>bed time
12:58<HoopyCat>i can reach speedtest.tokyo.linode.com from here
12:59-!-scorche [~scorche@ip72-201-94-154.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:00<xinming>seems the problem of my ISP
13:00<xinming>Will try it tomorrow
13:01<Peng>Good night and good luck
13:03-!-mega__ [~oftc-webi@subs12-223-255-228-106.three.co.id] has joined #linode
13:04<mega__>what??? why?
13:04<mega__>the webchat freeze and restart
13:05<mega__>i lost my conversation with great people
13:05-!-mega_ [~oftc-webi@subs12-223-255-228-110.three.co.id] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:05<Peng>mega__: http://irclogs.thegrebs.com/linode/2015/08/30#12:18
13:07<mega__>oh thanks peng
13:07<mega__>are you the admin here?
13:08<Peng>heh, not at all
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13:09*akerl looks around
13:11<Peng>looking for CaptainBeard?
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13:24<+linbot>New news from forum: Web Servers and Web App Development • How do I setup my Linode without a domain? <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=12213&p=68320#p68320>
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13:30<kuzetsa>make && make modules_install && nano /etc/grub/conf thinger woo!
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13:34<sparticle>hi
13:35<sparticle>Is it possible to add more disk space to my 2GB linode
13:35<akerl>Resize to a larger Linode
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13:39<sparticle>wow I never thought of that! My question relates to addding more storage to my 2GB linode I don;t need more memory or cpu
13:40<akerl>Nope
13:40<HoopyCat>sparticle: upgrade the storage, and you get the RAM and the CPU for free
13:40<@Rainbow>sparticle, Linode doesn't offer a la carte upgrades at this time
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13:41<sparticle>There is no point in ading cup and memory that is never used
13:41<akerl>k
13:42<sparticle>Thanks for th e info. Sound slike there is no option for adding storage at this time.
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13:42<akerl>:|
13:42<sparticle>ciao!
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13:44<Peng>:|
13:44<@Rainbow>|:
13:44<akerl>Sometimes I feel that what we just witnessed is the natural inverse of the "oh, so you're having an issue with your apache config? Use nginx"
13:45<akerl>"Ah, so you're saying that other than the ways to add storage, I cannot add storage"
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13:49<HoopyCat>i'd tell the story of the Extras but it just gets confusing, especially the part where it was like $50/GB in the end
13:49<HoopyCat>actually, $50/GB at the beginning and at the end
13:50<kuzetsa>but... nginx and apache are both rubbish and I'm not sure how that's an analogy for anything ever under any circumstances other than like saying it's a switch between using drain cleaner versus industrial bleach to bake a cake O_O
13:50<kuzetsa>web is bad
13:50<kuzetsa>always, even cherokee O_O
13:54<Peng>Is $38 too much for a cable I don't really need?
13:54<Peng>>_>
13:57<@Rainbow>Peng, pfft, make your own
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13:59<Peng>D:
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15:31<MMiller>Does Linode also handle domain transfers? Or is Linode strictly hosting?
15:33<HoopyCat>linode is not a domain registrar, so you'll need to work out your own relationship with a domain registrar of your choosing
15:33<MMiller>Any recommended?
15:34<MMiller>either officially or personally, HoopyCat?
15:37<Xel>Hover
15:37<Xel>Hover.com
15:37<Xel>They are awesome
15:37<Xel>Cheap, you can google coupon codes, their web interface is easy and supports MFA
15:37<Xel>It's a tucows company
15:41<Peng>MMiller: Linode *does* offer DNS hosting, though.
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15:44<MMiller>Thanks, Xel :) Looking into it now.
15:44<MMiller>Peng, really just need domain registration and handling but thanks!
15:48<Ttech>Also there's NameCheap or Google Domains, etc.
15:48<Xel>No, there is only Hover
15:50<Peng>did it Hoover up all competitors?
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15:59<dcraig>why does every domain registrar feel like some sort of fly-by-night company?
16:00<Xel>Because they sell commodity-items generally very cheaply.
16:00<Xel>tucows has been around forever though
16:00<Xel>So I'm cool w/ my choice.
16:00<dcraig>how many cows?
16:01<gparent>tu of the
16:01<gparent>m
16:01<Xel>seven, maybe eight
16:01<dcraig>:D
16:01<dcraig>maybe it actually means "your cows"
16:01<gparent>those cows
16:01<dcraig>the cows among us
16:03<dcraig>everyone in here was always namecheap namecheap namecheap, so I switched to them, but I find their web interface a bit cluttered and confusing
16:04<dcraig>aside from that, they seem fine, I guess
16:04<Peng>I use Namecheap some. Agreed about their interface. It's so... Web 1.5.
16:05<Peng>Last time I logged in, they had a box at the top insisting they were working on it.
16:05<dcraig>the main website is very pretty now
16:05*mode14 uses amazon route 53
16:05<dcraig>but the control panel is sorta like an iframe from 2000 surrounded by the pretty site
16:05<eric>xf
16:05<eric>ups
16:05<Peng>dcraig
16:06<Peng>oops
16:06<dcraig>what is going on with you two
16:06<Peng>dcraig++
16:06<Peng>Peng--
16:06<Peng>Pengskeyboard----
16:06<dcraig>I got a very tiny keyboard, and I love its smallness, but sometimes I screw things up because of it
16:06<dcraig>I was trying to conserve desk space
16:07<Peng>dcraig: This keyboard seemingly has a dead column. :D No plus key. I had to copy and paste to ++ you!
16:08<dcraig>awww, that is so sad
16:08<dcraig>we can all chip in for a new keyboard for you
16:08<dcraig>start a kickstarter
16:08<dcraig>or gofundme
16:08<Peng>please get me a Model M manufactured on my birthday and painted blue
16:08<dcraig>can you bracket {} ?
16:09<Peng>dcraig: Yes.
16:09<Peng>dcraig: It's a laptop. Plus/equals, backspace, and up and down are dead.
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16:09<dcraig>ohhh, well, that complicates things
16:09<Peng>a bit!
16:09<dcraig>I'm using my laptop with an external keyboard (the tiny one) and monitor
16:10<dcraig>maybe you'll have to go that route eventually
16:10<Peng>I have two external keyboards handy... one is crappy and one is PS/2.
16:11<dcraig>hey the linode forum should have a thread where we can post our "battlestations"
16:13<HoopyCat>MMiller: it's probably a dead horse by this point :-), but i use nearlyfreespeech.net, namecheap.com, and budgetnames.ca
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16:30<Xel>HoopyCat: Use Hover.
16:30<Xel>kthxbai
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16:32<HoopyCat>i only have a dozen or so domains
16:32<arlen>gandi.net is good
16:32<arlen>better than hover
16:33<dcraig>I should "clean house" with my domains
16:33<dcraig>dcraig.tv didn't exactly take off
16:33<Peng>how about dcraig.ninja?
16:33<dcraig>oh yeah, I have so many options now!
16:34<arlen>dcraig.space
16:34<xand>daniel craig?
16:34<dcraig>david
16:34<Ttech>dcraig.gg
16:34<Ttech>dcraig: you have some cool though
16:34<dcraig>I have most of the cool
16:35<xand>lol, didn't notice your nick, thought it was a site about the actor
16:35<Ttech>photos*
16:35<dcraig>oh yeah?
16:35<Ttech>dcraig: cool photos yes
16:35<dcraig>I was oh yeahing at xand
16:35<dcraig>who's on first?!
16:35<arlen>kool-aid man
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16:58<Ethan>Hello, can I upload my own OS to run on my Linode instance?
16:58<Peng>Yes.
16:58<Peng>!custom
16:58<+linbot>https://www.linode.com/docs/tools-reference/custom-kernels-distros/running-a-custom-linux-distro-on-a-linode-vps
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17:40<dcraig>the current linode platform presents lots of opportunities for hobbyist tinkering
17:40<dcraig>people can run weird OSs, etc...
17:40<dcraig>but it is an expensive hobby if you just want to play around
17:41<dcraig>is there any way to have a linode pricing structure that would allow for some sort of "limited" linode that coud be used for playing around and not for "real, production" purposes?
17:42<akerl>how... would that differ?
17:42<laser`>By the hour pricing can be fairly inexpensive for tinkering
17:44<dcraig>well, if people come up with new uses for linodes, that might ultimately result in more business for the company, so maybe the company should be incentivizing this kind of behavior
17:45<akerl>I'm asking what kind of behavior you're describng
17:45<laser`>If they reduce the prices for some Linodes, why wouldn't people just use that for their production instances, I guess is the question
17:45<akerl>How would the "non-prod" Linode be different than the "real" Linode, to justify the lower cost
17:45<laser`>what is it that Linode could do that will reduce their costs to make an "experimental" set of nodes cheaper
17:45<dcraig>well, the freebie instances would have to be limited in some way such that they wouldn't be suitable for production...
17:45<akerl>Like...
17:46<dcraig>I don't know! this is why I turn to the experts here :P
17:46<laser`>So AWS have the t2.micro, which has loads of CPU contention
17:48<laser`>I'm not sure it's really in Linode's interest, especially given the cheapest instances are like £.650/mo
17:48<laser`>which is cheap enough for experimentation, that's less than 2 pints of beer nowadays :P
17:50<dcraig>I guess if you want to do something new with your linode, you can write a library how-to guide, and get 25 months of free service...
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17:59<Kyhwana>laser`: you can always get a $5 DO 512MB instance ;)
18:00<Kyhwana>tho to be fair, it's been a while since i've seen any CPU steal on my droplets
18:00<Xel>The $5 ones come with jack shit for storage though
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19:49<HoopyCat>here's what $10 normally gets you: http://i.imgur.com/xwXTbTP.gifv
19:52-!-djweezy [~matt@weezy.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:52<dcraig>umbrella launcher
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20:21<pharaun>HoopyCat: accurate
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20:26<akerl>On one hand, case-insensitive filesystems are evil. On the other, if you make files whose names are identical except for casing, you're probably going to hell
20:27*akerl looks at iptables
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20:35<warewolf>ipfwadm
20:36<warewolf>also known as a stroll down memory lane: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/IP-Masquerade-HOWTO/iptables-vs-ipchains-vs-ipfwadm.html
20:36<akerl>:P
20:46<HoopyCat>Considered by caker to be the "best part" of the service, Desert Linode is a trick minigame and a featured part of Virtual Server Monthly's preview. The objective of the game is to drive a Linode from Newark, New Jersey to Fremont, California in real time at a maximum speed of 45 MPH. The feat requires 57 hours of continuous play to complete, since the game cannot be paused.
20:46<gparent>akerl: much younger and not having much clue when it came to Linux, I remember clearly at least one time I renamed a lot of files so every space was an underscore and the caps were all lowercased
20:46<gparent>music folder from NTFS
20:46<gparent>talk about memory lane
20:47<akerl>gparent: My issue here is that I'm submoduling the iptables git repo, and doing so on a Mac automatically and immediately causes headaches because there's no (good) way to have a clean checkout
20:47<HoopyCat>-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_%26_Teller%27s_Smoke_and_Mirrors#Desert_Bus
20:47<gparent>ah
20:48<gparent>shows you for trying to contribute
20:48<gparent>jackass
20:48<akerl>haha
20:48<akerl>I'm not that good a person, I'm trying to build a static iptables package
20:48<gparent>dont forget to omit iptables-restore and iptables-save symlinks
20:50<akerl>heh
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21:37<Peng>https://gfycat.com/WeeklyEvergreenGrouse <- I don't know what IT reaction this applies to, but I'm sure there is one
21:38<Peng>(the little thing is a water bottle)
21:38<synapt>I just saw something about that somewhere
21:38<synapt>didn't that cause a fire or some shit? lol
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21:55<HoopyCat>current status: https://vine.co/v/eIXejbQ2utM
22:08<Nivex>HoopyCat: that is ... wow
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22:38<+linbot>New news from forum: Email/SMTP Related Forum • Email with Postfix, Dovecot, and MySQL problems <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=12221&p=68321#p68321>
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23:02<zetufu2u>So - anyone else having issues with spamvertised tickets & sites?
23:03<akerl>Not since I stopped putting my link in emails and sending them to everybody in my netblock
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23:11<x86_64>hi
23:12<arlen>hi
23:12<x86_64>how can I transfer files between my local computer and the server at linode? for example: I may write some config files on my local computer, run it to test it and if it works i deploy it to the remote server
23:13<akerl>https://www.linode.com/docs/search?query=file+transfer
23:20<Peng>although your example gets into configuration management and deployment as much as 'transferring files'
23:21<x86_64>so as long as ssh is enabled, i can do sftp right?
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23:21<x86_64>i know how to sftp,already
23:21<x86_64>just wanna know if the server supports it
23:22<x86_64>(i may be talking weird, havent had breakfast :p)
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23:28<Peng>x86_64: Yes.
23:29<Peng>x86_64: Your Linode is running an SSH daemon with SFTP enabled, unless you changed that.
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---Logclosed Mon Aug 31 00:00:26 2015