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#linode IRC Logs for 2017-06-19

---Logopened Mon Jun 19 00:00:40 2017
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01:10<linbot>New news from forum: Email/SMTP Related Forum • SpamAssassin, The query to URIBL was blocked. <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14920&p=73825#p73825>
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01:58<Arvind>hi
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02:30<linbot>New news from forum: Email/SMTP Related Forum • SpamAssassin, The query to URIBL was blocked. <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14920&p=73826#p73826>
02:31*dcraig tickles linbot around a bit with a large skipjack tuna
02:36*arlen tickles dcraig
02:39*dcraig tickles arlen around a bit with a large char
02:40<dcraig>arlen what up
02:40<arlen>not much
02:40<arlen>what's up with you
02:40<dcraig>nothin
02:40<dcraig>gotta go to bed
02:40<arlen>:-/
02:40<dcraig>it's hot here
02:40<arlen>here too
02:41<arlen>ax on all day
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02:41<arlen>ac
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02:51<linbot>New news from forum: Email/SMTP Related Forum • SpamAssassin, The query to URIBL was blocked. <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14920&p=73827#p73827>
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03:43<Eugene>Every day I'm Linodin'
04:29<Woet>early one
04:29<Woet>or very late one
04:29<Woet>zifnab's fault again?
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04:34<Praba>hi anyone is there?
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04:36<Praba>hi
04:36<arlen>hi
04:38<Praba>demo available in your VPS cloud?
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05:10<arlen>no but there's a 7 day money back
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05:20<StephenR>is anyone with knowledge of NodeBalancer's around? I can't find much in the way of technical documentation about them
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05:24<hawk>StephenR: I'd suggest just asking the actual question(s)
05:25<Woet>!ask
05:25<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient! You may want to read http://alexfornuto.com/how-to-ask-for-help-on-irc/
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05:25<StephenR>@hawk ok, so based on the features available, I'm guessing it's basically just HAProxy as a service.
05:26<StephenR>i can't see any mention of things like PROXY support, though and besides one line saying it's "highly available" i can't find any details about whether the service itself has failover (i.e. ip failover to N balancers)
05:30<StephenR>it also appears that there is no way to have the balancer <> backend connection use TLS - all communication will be in the clear over the DC's private network - but that could mean hundreds or thousands of other VMs right?
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05:35<Bob>Question for anyone
05:35<Bob>I'm using WeeChat IRC in my terminal on an Ubuntu distro
05:36<Bob>How would I discover more servers, and how would I find the server info for use on this program?
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05:42<bcg>Hello. Hoping someone can help. I have a web server linode running Ubuntu with little customisation. This hosts several WordPress websites, two of which I have recently configured to send email via Gmail's SMTP servers. I also host several websites in a shared hosting environment (for my sins) which also send email via Gmail's SMTP servers. For some reason my Linode server seems to need the Gmail account to have the 'less secure apps' set
05:42<bcg>...shared server does not. I'm guessing something about my linode setup needs tightening up but I'm not quite sure where to look. Any ideas?
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05:54<syed>my linode server has dissapeared from the manager any idea what it might be?
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05:55<grawity>are you logged in to the correct account?
05:57<syed>yes i only have 1 account, i read some status message about xen servers but i believe mine is kvm but the server is missing. cant even ssh to it and the billing is up to date. i have access to all the billing info
05:57<Peng>Even if it was Xen, it wouldn't go missing.
05:57<Peng>Like... does it still work?
05:58<Peng>File a support ticket, i guess.
05:58<grawity>call Linode or submit a ticket
05:58<syed>nope, no ssh access even
05:58<Peng>Check your ticket and invoice history?
05:58<Peng>But file a ticket.
05:58<syed>submited ticket but its only giving me access to submit to the billing team
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06:20<syed>looks like i had more than 1 account and i was logging in with a restricted account. thanks for your assistance
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06:39<santosh>hello
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06:41<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • Does anyone else have LISH issues? <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14890&p=73829#p73829> || Current Betas • Linode Block Storage (beta) <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14906&p=73828#p73828>
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07:25<syed>anyone come across this message when booting Network Helper did not run: could not determine distribution or distribution version
07:25<syed>no access to vm
07:26<dwfreed>what distro did you deploy to your Linode?
07:26<syed>standard linode image
07:26<@armiller>syed: You can work around that by statically configuring your interfaces yourself
07:27<syed>its a centos 6.5 from linode
07:29<syed>it keeps powering off when i try and reboot it
07:29<@armiller>syed: Sounds like you may be in a Lassie loop. Do you see Lassie reboot jobs in your job log?
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07:32<syed>yea once i boot once it keeps rebooting a few times by itself with the same message
07:32<linbot>New news from forum: Email/SMTP Related Forum • SpamAssassin, The query to URIBL was blocked. <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14920&p=73830#p73830>
07:32<dwfreed>look at the console log
07:32<@armiller>You are likely having an issue with the init process that is ending in a kernel panic. You should be able to check the console with LISH
07:33<dwfreed>(log into LISH, detach from the console, then run the logview command)
07:33<dwfreed>!lish
07:33<linbot>LISH allows you to perform certain actions without having to log in to the Linode Manager. LISH's primary function is to allow you to access your Linode's console, even if networking is disabled. https://www.linode.com/docs/networking/using-the-linode-shell-lish
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08:12<linbot>New news from forum: Email/SMTP Related Forum • Bulk Mailing Best Practices <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=4742&p=73831#p73831>
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08:52<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • Does anyone else have LISH issues? <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14890&p=73832#p73832>
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09:02<linbot>New news from forum: Email/SMTP Related Forum • SpamAssassin, The query to URIBL was blocked. <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14920&p=73833#p73833>
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09:13<samj>Hi
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09:15<samj>I need help please explaining the pricing plans, I'm kind of new to this ..
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09:15<samj>For example there is a plan that says 10$/month and then (0.15$ per hour )
09:16<samj>I'm looking for a new hosting provider, how is this calculated exactly ?
09:16<ponas>samj: it's 0.15$ per hour but max $10/month
09:16<hawk>If you use said plan for an entire month it's calculated as $10, if used only part of the month it's calculated as num_hours * $.15
09:17<samj>aah Ok, so it means that I pay max 10$ per month , right ?
09:17<MrPPS>That's right
09:18<samj>Perfect , Thanks a lot guys
09:18<hawk>samj: With the possible exception of a situation where you've exceeded the transfer quota
09:18<samj>Yes that would make sense
09:19<samj>I'm not sure though If it would be a good option for hosting a website since I'm not much into technical stuff
09:20<MrPPS>Depends on if you're willing to put in a bit of time to learn, or not! If you don't want to deal with technical things to set it up, or fix it when it breaks down
09:20<samj>this is a cloud service, no ready made hosting plans installed, right ?
09:20<MrPPS>Then either go for shared hosting, or Linode Managed :) And yes, that's correct - all that is provided is the server
09:21<MrPPS>It is up to you what gets installed on there, configured, etc.
09:22<samj>Aha I understand now, but I can't find the Linode managed plans
09:22<linbot>New news from forum: Email/SMTP Related Forum • SpamAssassin, The query to URIBL was blocked. <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14920&p=73834#p73834>
09:22<MrPPS>https://www.linode.com/managed - to be honest, this is more for management after it's all set up
09:22<MrPPS>https://www.linode.com/managed
09:22<MrPPS>sorry, double linked!
09:23<MrPPS>There is also linode professional services - https://www.linode.com/professional-services
09:25<samj>thanks a lot MrPPS , I guess what I'm asking is if there is a hosting plan like other hosting companies, where you just login to your cpnale and start developing your website
09:26<MrPPS>Not that sort of hosting, I'm afraid!
09:26<MrPPS>And no worries - happy to help :)
09:26<samj>I apologize for the noobness , but I already got bitten twice with two bad hosting plans,
09:26<MrPPS>Absolutely fine - better to ask up front than be bitten later on :)
09:27<samj>Yeah, It's always nice finding helpful honest people .. I can't thank you enough
09:28<samj>Do you know of any good hosting companies ? .. Ratings can't be trusted so I've learned the hard way
09:28<MrPPS>Any time! And in the past, I've had an acceptable experience with bluehost - nothing outstanding, but it always worked, and was reasonably priced (for shared hosting)
09:28<MrPPS>Unfortunately I don't have much personal experience to compare it to, so I can say whether it's better than others or not - only that I didn't feel I was ripped off
09:30<samj>Well yes, add to the mix few plans for Shared hosting, then semi dedicated, then business, then vps then reseller .. etc . .. That is more like a jungle
09:30<samj>For a new comer .. Good luck not getting bitten
09:31<MrPPS>Yeah, there's plenty out there! I started off shared hosting with bluehost many years back, but then moved on to Linode when I wanted more control + better performance. It worked well for me, as I am employed in a related field, so server administration isn't something I really had to learn
09:31<MrPPS>But obviously if you've no experience administering linux servers, then it may be a bit of a steeper learning curve!
09:32<samj>Sigh, I will have to keep digging I guess
09:33<MrPPS>Could always spin up the cheapest one, set your website up on it, and see how much you struggle to do that
09:33<MrPPS>If you're happy with how difficult it is, maybe try running it on there for a while. If not, $5 is not a great deal lost!
09:33<samj>Yeah I thought so at the beginning then it occured to me that it might be more complicated than that
09:34<samj>The only way to know if the hosting is working good or not is when site is under load , by then it will be big trouble to find out that you need to switch hosting
09:35<MrPPS>Oh, yeah I can attest to the fact that linode hardware etc performs well
09:35<MrPPS>So it's more how much would your website need in the way of resources + are you comfortable with configuration of Linux servers
09:36<MrPPS>But you can also do load testing (using Apache benchmark etc)
09:36<MrPPS>Which simulates high load to see how your website will work
09:36<samj>Yes, Reason I got here is because of the good reviews I find about Linode, problem apparently I don't have enough expertise and cant afford wasting time learning .. Need to attend to business rather than learning hard technical stuff
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09:37<samj>Oh I didn't know about such tests ! .. thanks for pointing it out
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09:38<MrPPS>No worries :) but as you say, if you don't have the time to learn, it's probably not right for you for the moment (unless you pay someone to set it up + configure as needed)
09:38<samj>MrPPS can I have your email or contact in case I decide to go the hard way ? .. That is if you freelance on your free time of course
09:39<MrPPS>samj: I'll pm it to you :)
09:39<samj>Great, thank you :)
09:40<ponas>if you want something managed that has some kind of guaranteed performance you could look into webfaction
09:40<ponas>never tried them but I've read some positive reviews
09:41<samj>thank you ponas, will take a look
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11:18<AlexMax>Got a question
11:19<AlexMax>Getting a free linode upgrade doesn't change its IP, correct?
11:19<millisa>nope
11:19<grawity>the IP only changes if migrating to another datacenter
11:19<grawity>not during resizes within the same location
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11:28<cristovaosoliveira80>Hi
11:28<nbrewer>hello, feel free to ask your question
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11:30<cristovaosoliveira80>I bought a service on 06/16 and added 20.00 USD, requested verification of data I sent my ID and copy of my card ... and so far I have not objected to the release and no email was sent to me about that release. I tried to reset password this morning and no email has arrived so far, I have added + 5.00 USD balance and no answer, no one can help me?
11:32<cristovaosoliveira80>my email: cristovaosoliveira80@gmail.com
11:32<nbrewer>include the last six digits of the credit card on file, so they can authenticate you. they're not going to discuss account details in here - this is a community channel.
11:33<cristovaosoliveira80>okay
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11:40<cbirk>achoo
11:41<@jleal>bless you :)
11:41<cbirk>lel
11:41<cbirk>sup jleal
11:41<@jleal>rolling kernels, you?
11:42<cbirk>hiera eyamling
11:42<@jleal>nice
11:42<cbirk>rolling kernels? is that what they're calling it nowadays? :D
11:42*jleal giggles
11:43<dwfreed>jleal: I take it this is why? http://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2017/06/19/1
11:45<cbirk>wat
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11:45<cbirk>Our research started with a 96-megabyte surprise"
11:45<cbirk>that's how i start every weekend
11:45<cbirk>with a 96 megabyte surprise
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11:48<@dmonschein>lol
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12:04<dwfreed>"an experimental version of our Exim exploit unexpectedly gained control of eip"
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12:07<cbirk>hahah
12:07<synfinatic>"oops"
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12:14<Peng>Why do people always exploit Exim? Is it more fragile than other mail servers? Do they just like it?
12:15<dwfreed>i think it's because it's a steaming pile of crap
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12:15<Peng>:<
12:16<cbirk>exim == gabbage
12:16<cbirk>the front page of their website is them explaining how they've fixed a CVE
12:16<cbirk>hahah
12:16<cbirk>http://www.exim.org/
12:17<FluffyFoxeh>"Exim leaks the private DKIM signing key to the log files."
12:17<FluffyFoxeh>doesn't sound too severe
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12:18<newfbsd>hello.
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12:18<cbirk>nah not at all, leaking private keys?
12:19<cbirk>so you can sign fake email?
12:19<FluffyFoxeh>only if someone has access to the log files
12:19<cbirk>lawl
12:19<cbirk>donno bout you but here we give customer support access to Kibana
12:19<cbirk>so stuff in our logs... needs to not have anything private in it.
12:20<cbirk>luckily we dont use exim. unfortunately, we use kibana
12:20<cbirk>ELK
12:20<cbirk>garbage
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12:36<Harsh>hi any one there ?
12:37<millisa>usually
12:37<Harsh>Millisa
12:37<Harsh>are you from linode support group
12:38<millisa>!ops
12:38<linbot>Users with ops are employees of Linode, and know what they're talking about. The rest of us are the ever-so-helpful(?) community. Official Linode contact information: https://www.linode.com/contact
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12:39<synfinatic>lol
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12:42<newfbsd>hello.
12:42<synfinatic>good morning
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12:42<tmddhks123>hello?
12:42<synfinatic>is there an echo here?
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12:43<newfbsd>I've just set up a freebsd node, added another user onto fbsd but i don't know to which ip should I connect with the new user to.
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12:44<synfinatic>same IP address as your freebsd node? I honestly don't understand the question
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12:45<cbirk>chem trails
12:45<newfbsd>synfinatic, I tried but I get connection refused, will double check rc.conf if sshd is enabled, should be...
12:50<synfinatic>check to see if sshd is running. connection refused sounds like it isn't
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12:56<newfbsd>synfinatic: yes I updated it on the rc.conf file. This is my first node/virtserver install sorry
12:56<synfinatic>no need to appologize
12:56<synfinatic>i've never run fbsd :)
12:56<dwfreed>my only experience with fbsd is pfsense
12:57<newfbsd>Thos channel is also for linode.com dashboard questions?
12:58<millisa>we like talking about just about all things linode
12:59<newfbsd>almost everytime I click on another tab on linode web page I get a login page
13:00<dwfreed>do you have IPv6 at home? you might be flipping between IPv4 and IPv6
13:00<newfbsd>I've got to reenter username/pass all the time. I disabled adblock and popup in chrome.
13:00<newfbsd>I think I've got just ipv4 enabled on the router. Could be an issue with my dual wan router?
13:00<dwfreed>that would do it
13:00<MajObviousman>... yes
13:01<dwfreed>if your router is flipping between upstreams on a per connection basis, your apparent IP address will change regularly
13:01<MajObviousman>disable round-robin, go to a hashing method
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13:03<newfbsd>MajObviousman: What's the ip range for linode NJ? I would set that range to a specific wan
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13:04<dwfreed>the linode manager uses 3 IP addresses
13:04<dwfreed>linbot: dns6 manager.linode.com A
13:04<linbot>dwfreed: 72.14.191.204, 72.14.180.204, 69.164.200.204
13:04<MajObviousman>last I knew, they were all based out of DFW
13:04<dwfreed>aye
13:04<MajObviousman>these days, I think they're doing anycast to get entrypoints into their network and then shuttling it to Dallas across MPLS
13:05<MajObviousman>or had plans to. Or something.
13:05<MajObviousman>maybe that was temporal while Bad Things were happening
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13:05<dwfreed>I believe anycast is definitely in the cards
13:05<dwfreed>once they have the backbone finished
13:06<MajObviousman>ahh that's it. Not there yet but heading that direction
13:06<dwfreed>I've seen it at play in Dallas<->Fremont traffic already
13:06<dwfreed>"hey, those are all Linode IPs; that's weird"
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13:25<Peng>Dallas-Atlanta too
13:26<Eugene>Every day I'm Linodin'
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13:30<MAKcubes>i swapped my IP ... and Changed all my Domains' DNS to new Ip, now i all my domains redirected to cgi .......... any help
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13:44<ashokkumar>is there anyone here i can message for support?
13:44<ashokkumar>im not a customer yet
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13:47<arlen>!ask
13:47<linbot>If you have a question, feel free to just ask it -- someone's always willing to help. If you don't get a response right away, be patient! You may want to read http://alexfornuto.com/how-to-ask-for-help-on-irc/
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14:34<zifnab>i have a dilemma i need some input in
14:34<zifnab>cheap rent, but comcast
14:34<zifnab>vs expensive rent, but gigabit
14:36<cbirk>i always try to steer as far away from comcast as possible
14:36<cbirk>they are the devil.
14:36<zifnab>so, seattle prices, my current rental place wants $2400 at renewal
14:36<zifnab>this place is $1910-ish
14:36<zifnab>which is fantastic, its cheap
14:37<cbirk>id rather live in a sewer than use comcast
14:37<millisa>cbirk's in a halfshell!
14:37<cbirk>fact ^
14:38<cbirk>zifnab: whos providing the gigabit
14:38<zifnab>some local place
14:38<cbirk>hmmm
14:38<cbirk>yeah sounds better than comcast
14:38<zifnab>there's centurylink or a local cable provider who has gigabit
14:38<zifnab>"is it worth more money"
14:39<cbirk>"yes"
14:39<zifnab>like, if htats the only downside about this apartment
14:39<zifnab>appears i only use 300GB (down) / 900GB (up) in a month
14:39<zifnab>or, well, two months, uptime is 60 days
14:40<cbirk>wait - they limit your bandwidth ?
14:40<zifnab>nope
14:40<cbirk>i thought you were talking speed
14:40<zifnab>thats from ip -s link on the router
14:40<cbirk>in any case
14:40<zifnab>so, what i've actually used
14:40<cbirk>i would avoid comcast at whatever costs necessary
14:41<zifnab>well, back to setting up an elasticsearch cluster
14:41<zifnab>idk, i've got a few weeks to figure it out
14:42<cbirk>man
14:42<cbirk>i do not envy you
14:42<cbirk>elk, faced with the fact that you might have to use comcast
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14:44<zifnab>haha
14:44<zifnab>work related
14:44<zifnab>this job dies soon
14:44<zifnab>or so i keep hoping
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14:48<cbirk>yea
14:49<cbirk>i figured
14:49<cbirk>i dont know any sane person that sets up ELK for giggles
14:49<zifnab>its an ok thing
14:49<zifnab>we need aggregated logs
14:49<zifnab>thats really it
14:49<cbirk>yea
14:49<cbirk>i get it
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15:51<linuxGod>What CPU do Linode servers use?
15:51-!-mode/#linode [+l 368] by ChanServ
15:52<linuxGod>Does anyone know?
15:52<dwfreed>varies depending on which host you end up on, but it's a Intel Xeon, either E5-2670 or better
15:54<@caker>E5-2680 or E5-2697. I don't think there's anything older than those remaining in the fleet
15:57<linuxGod>thanks
15:57<Peng>Back in my day...
15:59*dwfreed remembers the L5520s
15:59<Peng>:D
16:00*Peng remembers the E5-2680 v2s
16:04<MajObviousman>that wasn't so long ago
16:04<Peng>It was Saturday for me :D
16:08<zifnab>i always want to see counts on remaining xen hosts
16:08<zifnab>i guess that'd require linode to hire me to see though
16:08<zifnab>and, meh, east coast is worst coast
16:09<Peng>I had a Xen node until Saturday :<
16:11<arlen>happy upgrade day!
16:11<BDIkaros>Heh, Peng, I'm currently on a E5-2680 v2
16:11<@caker>everything xen .. I don't think so
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16:12<BDIkaros>Apparently had to be thrown onto said host to test block storage. >.<
16:12<Peng>UMK forever!
16:12<Peng>UML forever! Spelling never!
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16:24<linbot>New news from forum: Email/SMTP Related Forum • SpamAssassin, The query to URIBL was blocked. <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14920&p=73835#p73835>
16:28<zifnab>today's "what the fuck, internet"
16:28<zifnab>setting up an elk cluster
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16:28<zifnab>ansible runs `apt install openjdk-8-jdk`
16:28<zifnab>and
16:28<zifnab>box goes poof
16:28<zifnab>where'd it go
16:28<zifnab>fuck aws
16:28*zifnab restarts all the things
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16:31<zifnab>game of "where's my network"
16:31<dwfreed>AWS still doesn't have a proper console, does it?
16:31<zifnab>i'd argue it isn't supposed to
16:31<millisa>its lets you see a screenshot. they added a 'refresh' button for it sometime recently
16:31<zifnab>its scale
16:31<zifnab>you don't have servers, you have cattle
16:32<zifnab>any problem that would require a console, you redeploy
16:32<dwfreed>how do you get a working cow in the first place?
16:32<millisa>make troubleshooting your qa cow really painful
16:32<dwfreed>^ exactly
16:32<millisa>that's why linode uses goats.
16:32<zifnab>"you redeploy"
16:33<zifnab>their way: cloudformation + codedeploy
16:33<zifnab>my way: terraform + ansible + jenkins/lambda magic
16:33<zifnab>qa is a full instance creation/test/destruction loop, staging/production are the same thing
16:33<zifnab>new deployment = new boxes, byebye old ones
16:33<zifnab>its a pain in the ass
16:34<zifnab>really nice when it works
16:34<zifnab>shit never works though
16:34<zifnab>i think i need tacos
16:34<dwfreed>things are a lot easier to debug when you can log into the console and poke around
16:34<millisa>it's not even tuesday. are you mad!?
16:34<zifnab>millisa: taco monday comes before taco tuesday
16:35<zifnab>millisa: its followed by taco wednesday, taco thursday, and taco friday
16:35<dwfreed>otherwise you spend hours taking stabs in the dark until you figure it out
16:35<zifnab>dwfreed: i swap out aws for a docker instance when doing initial bringup stuff
16:35<zifnab>millisa: 'taco tourism', tis a way of life
16:35<dwfreed>except docker isn't aws
16:35<zifnab>everyday is taco day
16:42<ponas>I work on a "(C) 2003-2017" homegrown identity management system written in python that's also an integration hub that literally speaks powershell through winrm to provision users in microsoft exchange
16:42<ponas>it's definitely not cloud ready but we could redeploy in like 5 hours \_(ツ)_/
16:43*dwfreed pulls out the cross and starts the exorcism chant
16:45<zifnab>ponas: that sounds...painful?
16:45<ponas>we aspire to one day support unicode, get over 1% code coverage and run it through docker!
16:45<ponas>it's better than it sounds
16:47*zifnab shudders
16:47<zifnab>i've seen worse
16:47<zifnab>i guess
16:48<ponas>i guess the good parts
16:48<zifnab>PCI compliance? who needs that! you can access the full credit card number of any customer through our templating system!
16:48<ponas>are that it's open source and has literally saved the higher education sector in my country MILLIONS of whatever currency
16:49<ponas>compared to off-the-shelf software from vendors that lock you in
16:49<ponas>oh and legal is scared of cloud
16:50<ponas>whatever cloud is
17:00<zifnab>buzzwords
17:00<zifnab>'cloud' == 'someone elses machine you rent'
17:04<arlen>https://arlen.io/cloud.png
17:05<vlaja>linode is cloud
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17:24<FluffyFoxeh>zifnab: IT department at work says our email will be deleted from our local machines starting next year and we should "archive them in the cloud". it's "more secure"
17:24<FluffyFoxeh>somehow storing our emails on external Microsoft servers is more secure than not doing so
17:24<zifnab>meh
17:26<FluffyFoxeh>oh and the bitbucket will be replaced with OneDrive as the new "file sharing" service
17:26<zifnab>:(
17:26<FluffyFoxeh>dunno if they're aware that bitbucket is a git repository server and not a file sharing service
17:26<FluffyFoxeh>because that makes no sense
17:27<zifnab>yeah
17:27<zifnab>you know what i miss about having an it department
17:27<zifnab>coming to work and saying "I literally can't do my job right now"
17:28<FluffyFoxeh>that happens semi regularly when they turn off some essential network component for no apparent reason for 4 hours in the middle of the day
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17:28<zifnab>oh well
17:28<relidy>I'll have you know that we always have our reasons. They may be reasons like, "it'll be funny", but it's a reason.
17:28<zifnab>maybe i'll have to deal with that hell in the future again
17:29<zifnab>best part of startups
17:29<zifnab>"here's a macbook"
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17:30<akerl>Oh, storing emails in cloud hosting vs local is literally way more secure
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17:30<akerl>No joke
17:30<zifnab>akerl i thought you died
17:30<FluffyFoxeh>I don't see how it could be more secure to put them outside your network instead of inside it
17:30<zifnab>"users"
17:30<akerl>For a company, basically every threat vector for emails starts with "and then the employee..."
17:30<zifnab>"stolen computers"
17:31<zifnab>etc
17:31<akerl>"... took their laptop to a bar", "... screwed up the hardware maint and rm -rf'd the drives", "... stole the drives"
17:31<FluffyFoxeh>lol
17:31<FluffyFoxeh>I'll give you that
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17:32<FluffyFoxeh>fwiw our laptops use FDE
17:32<FluffyFoxeh>but that's probably only as strong as the employee's password
17:32<akerl>And the venn diagram of "people employed at your company" and "people with direct connections to your company" is a circle, so the odds of somebody getting real stupid and also knowing where the email server sits physically or electronically is way higher than the odds some Microsoft employee or attacker both decides to do malice to O365 *and* picks/finds your data
17:33<akerl>It's also only as strong as the employee's opsec. Leave the laptop just slept as you cross the border? Screwed. Unlock the laptop at the bar and then head to the toilet? Screwed.
17:33<FluffyFoxeh>yep
17:33<akerl>Now, for *individuals*, we're talking a super different model
17:34<akerl>Since you don't have to worry as much that somebody else with access to your personal data goes rogue
17:34<FluffyFoxeh>I guess the issue with the central IT department is that the development staff is a very small portion of the people it serves, and the rest of them are mostly bad at computers
17:34<zifnab>yeah, thats normally rule #1 of hiring me
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17:34<zifnab>"i want a macbook. no you can't touch it, its mine"
17:34<akerl>Oh, I hate people like you
17:35<zifnab>and i hate people like you
17:35<akerl>My general answer is "enjoy the job hunt"
17:35<zifnab>its pretty simple, don't hire me
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17:35<akerl>Yup
17:35<zifnab>yeah, i'm ok with that
17:35<zifnab>"sorry, you can't install atom, its not on the approved software list"
17:35<zifnab>shit like that? fuck off
17:35<akerl>You can install it, but my endpoint tooling will snoop on it and its network connections go through my network inspection
17:36<FluffyFoxeh>I use a SSH tunnel at work because they block IMAP and I need it if I want to use email without dealing with the horrid outlook webmail
17:36<zifnab>i interviewed somewhere recently where i made the mistake of connecting to their wifi with my phone
17:36<zifnab>and...everything was blocked
17:36<zifnab>so i asked the interviewer, and yeah, of course, we have a sonicwall, it keeps people off facebook
17:37<zifnab>"wait, you mitm all your employees traffic" "...yeah, of course we do" "..."
17:37<zifnab>i realize thats probably normal some places
17:37<akerl>I mean, anybody dumb enough to get on facebook after the above disclaimer that all traffic passes via my grubby, neckbeardy fingers is welcome to do so
17:37<FluffyFoxeh>if I worked at a place like that I'd probably proxy the shit out of it and if they tried to stop me I'd leave
17:37<zifnab>yup
17:37<zifnab>ssh tunnels everywhere
17:37<akerl>Heh
17:37<akerl>Good luck :D
17:38<akerl>Honest question: why would you evade vs just not mixing work and not work?
17:38<FluffyFoxeh>there's enough things to get frustrated with in software dev without the idiotic corporate web filter being one of them
17:38<FluffyFoxeh>because it invariable hits things I actually need
17:38<zifnab>^^
17:38<FluffyFoxeh>like they block outbound SSH. so no git repos for me
17:38<zifnab>and, becuase work inevitably decides they should mix not work with work
17:39<FluffyFoxeh>and seeing as a lot of my job right now involves third party git repos, that's really not helpful
17:39<zifnab>i tend to be pretty flexible, if i'm needed at 2am i'm available
17:39<zifnab>i expect the same shit out of my employer
17:39<MajObviousman>zifnab: damnit, now I think _I_ need tacos
17:39<MajObviousman>I was happy in my taco-less state until you wrote that
17:39<zifnab>MajObviousman: i had italian tacos (pizza)
17:39<zifnab>taco place had a line
17:40<FluffyFoxeh>or the email example. I use a linux machine at work, so without IMAP it'd be the web mail. which means I'd miss a lot of emails on account of browser notifications being shitty or having rebooted and forgot to open the tab
17:41<zifnab>akerl: i think there needs to be a level of trust between employers and employees, and "we watch everything you do", and "we block certain sites" betrays that level of trust
17:41<zifnab>culture thing, you're paying me a ton of money, if you're not able to trust me enough to do my fucking job and want to babysit me all day, i'm more than happy going somewhere else
17:41<akerl>What about the attacker who steals your laptop?
17:42<MajObviousman>fold the pizza slices in half
17:42<akerl>I mean, he's taking a ton of money, but it seems like a much worse arrangement
17:42<MajObviousman>I too did the "I'm working on a macbook pro. Oh you're a windows shop? That's too bad, I'm working on a macbook pro. With these specs."
17:42<MajObviousman>it's not even joined to the domain
17:42<zifnab>bitlocker, filevault, etc
17:42<akerl>o.O
17:43<akerl>FDE covers one super narrow threat vector though
17:43<MajObviousman>but then, I don't work for large companies. I did once, for 18 months. It was about as tedious as I expected.
17:43<zifnab>sure, "you stole my laptop"
17:43<akerl>No, "You stole my laptop and it was powered off"
17:44<FluffyFoxeh>they expect me to do my job and if I don't then they'll throw me out. it's all in the papers I signed. trying to micromanage my internet connection is a waste of time
17:44<MajObviousman>on macs you can set it to forget the FDE key every time you lock the screen
17:44<MajObviousman>which if you use your user password as your FDE key, isn't that big of a deal. Doing <-- also reduces the value of FDE considerably
17:44<akerl>Heh
17:44<MajObviousman>and if you don't share keyphrases, then you're typing both things in all the time, which gets tiresome
17:44<akerl>It also slows re-login considerably :(
17:44<zifnab>and, if you want to make that a policy that thats what you have to do
17:45<zifnab>"You're fired if you don't do this"
17:45<MajObviousman>there's also a nasty little bug in OS X where if it goes to sleep and you told it to forget FDE keys, it doesn't ever work quite the same way when it wakes up
17:45<zifnab>or, cool someone steals your laptop and leaks a bunch of proprietary shit? you're obviously at fault
17:45<MajObviousman>restoring the RAM from swap, something fucks up in there
17:45<akerl>zifnab: that's not how leaks work, though
17:45<zifnab>i guess followup: where in the hell will i be working that cares that much about a data breach
17:45<zifnab>"oh, someone got a piece of code"
17:46<zifnab>"meh"
17:46<akerl>Like, if data leaks via an employee, it doesn't matter if I can point to a contract that says "Hey, the employee swore he'd follow the rules and he didn't and a ton of data got leaked" doesn't really help
17:46<akerl>because the NYT headline isn't gonna say "Oh, it's kosher, they can pass the buck to their employee"
17:46<arlen>MajObviousman: had that issue with el cap but seems fixed now
17:46<zifnab>don't have customer data on your machine
17:46<zifnab>problem solved
17:46<zifnab>don't have monolithic git repos, another problem solved
17:46<akerl>Attacker gets laptop -> attacker uses laptop to pull data -> data data data
17:47<MajObviousman>arlen: I've had that issue back to 2012. If Sierra has finally fixed it, then I've finally got my reason to upgrade
17:47<zifnab>ssh keys should always have passphrases
17:47<akerl>hence network controls being relevant
17:47<FluffyFoxeh>also my workstation sits under my desk and if someone is able to steal that we have bigger problems than the contents of my disk
17:47<zifnab>(as should openvpn/etc keys)
17:47<zifnab>all of this shit gets fixed with 2fa
17:47<akerl>Eh
17:47<arlen>MajObviousman: fixed it for me but have seen reports of it not working for others, worth a try I guess
17:48<zifnab>anyways, yeah, thats about my entire opinion
17:48<MajObviousman>I've no idea how or why it's not a bigger deal, but I struck that bug on three different MBPs across five years
17:48<MajObviousman>so it's not just me
17:48<zifnab>cluster: elk, status: green, node.total: 3, node.data: 0
17:48*MajObviousman makes note to test again
17:49<zifnab>so close
17:49<akerl>I guess I'll just make the statement that there are industries where the risk of data breach, the overall size of the company, and the realities of managing imperfect humans leads to "well we all trust each other and we're all smart tech people" not being sufficient
17:49<MajObviousman>zifnab: ONLY INGESTION NODES AND MASTER NODES NO DATA NODES IT GOES SO FAST
17:49<zifnab>akerl: correct. so far, the industries i've worked in? "cool you got our fota client, meh?"
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17:50<zifnab>customer data never hits a personal machine
17:50<zifnab>google? probably cares a bit more
17:50<MajObviousman>I think what I'd really like is a silent second factor in the form of a bluetooth presence of my phone
17:51<MajObviousman>and if the phone's not present, there's a hideous sha256 hash to type in instead
17:51<zifnab>fwiw the company that was going insane about data was bestbuy, it was for a backend developer
17:51<zifnab>and, their entire reasoning was "we don't want our employees on facebook"
17:51<dwfreed>MajObviousman: define "presence"
17:51<dwfreed>Bluetooth MAC addresses are as spoofable as ethernet ones
17:51<dwfreed>also easier to pick up
17:52<zifnab>MajObviousman: why would i skip data nodes?
17:52<MajObviousman>zifnab: so your ELK stack can be web scale
17:52<zifnab>:(
17:52<zifnab>but
17:52<MajObviousman>WORN
17:52<zifnab>then i can't store anything
17:52<MajObviousman>and it's so fast!
17:52<zifnab>also do you need ingestion nodes
17:52<MajObviousman>Web. Scale.
17:52<zifnab>i assumed the masters could ingest
17:53<MajObviousman>they can, but the ELK docs are extremely particular that you shouldn't run anything on a master. Don't even sneeze at a master
17:53<MajObviousman>which I've flatly ignored and made master also ingestion nodes
17:53<zifnab>oh, wait, i don't even need ingestion nodes afaik
17:53<zifnab>this is just logs
17:53<zifnab>ingestion is for pipelines, which...meh?
17:53<MajObviousman>because what I see is that ES has a mix of "We did this a bunch of times and discovered that if you do X or Y, bad performance happens" and "This is really a myth and explaining the nuance would take too long so just do $THING"
17:54<MajObviousman>master nodes doing nothing is in the latter category
17:54<zifnab>yeah, i have some tiny (i think t2.medium) nodes for master
17:54<zifnab>and a couple of m4.large things for data
17:54<MajObviousman>perfect
17:54<zifnab>and figured i'd just point everything at the data nodes
17:54<MajObviousman>there's actual value in a coordinating node
17:54<zifnab>or, well, elk-data.service.consul
17:55<MajObviousman>if you have large datasets that you're crawling, that is
17:55<zifnab>yeah we don't
17:55<zifnab>literally nginx logs + service logs
17:55<MajObviousman>yeah pffft you're golden
17:56<MajObviousman>but seriously, WORN = web scale
17:56<zifnab>kibana is a gui i can give developers who don't get journalctl and can't seem to learn `ansible hostgroup -ba "journalctl -u <service-name>"`
17:56<zifnab>its funny what developers seem unable to learn
17:56<zifnab>ansible is black magic
17:56<zifnab>i even got to the point of "just run this jenkins job, it'll give you logs"
17:56<MajObviousman>it's ... not really. You run the thing and it runs the things on the things you tell it to thing
17:56<MajObviousman>it's just a big switch board
17:56<zifnab>"but i just write code"
17:57<zifnab>....grrrr
17:57<MajObviousman>"then you should love ansible because it's all code"
17:57<zifnab>yup
17:57<zifnab>i'd fire people who aren't willing to learn things
17:57<MajObviousman>if you could fire them
17:57<zifnab>#startups
17:57<MajObviousman>well thre's also no universal rule
17:57<zifnab>i don't want to be friends with my boss
17:57<zifnab>that sounds mean
17:57<MajObviousman>some times I just want something to fucking work without me having to learn Yet Another DSL
17:58<MajObviousman>I've got enough of those in my head, and the past five years have been very very bad for reinventing wheels that are ever so slightly rounder than the ones before them, with entirely different syntax
17:59<zifnab>terraform's dsl is the worst
17:59<zifnab>"what do you mean i can't store a list in a map"
17:59<MajObviousman>I've had the most success with tying in a jenkins instance with one job = one ansible task, push button get result
17:59<MajObviousman>the devs feel like they didn't learn anything, and you don't have to maintain kibana
17:59<MajObviousman>which admittedly isn't hard to maintain
18:00<zifnab>i have that already
18:00<zifnab>its 'too hard'
18:00<zifnab>'it doesnt go back far enough, i want all logs from this thing forever'
18:00<zifnab>thats going to be fun too fwiw
18:00<zifnab>i'm pretty sure they're going to get kibana and be entirely lost
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18:08<MajObviousman>there's no saving these clowns, so cease investing time in trying to do so
18:08<zifnab>yup
18:08<zifnab>its fine, new job incoming soon
18:12<MajObviousman>which will have similar challenges
18:14<zifnab>yup
18:14*MajObviousman stares at 9.49 MB/s transfer and wonders what the hell happened to the array
18:14<MajObviousman>it was moving at 177MB/s not too long ago
18:16<zifnab>MajObviousman: fluentd or logstash
18:16<zifnab>i keep hearing bad things about logstash, but fluentd is ruby
18:16<zifnab>which is evil
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18:34<Sourish>Hello
18:34<Sourish>Is there a option to spin server from ISO ?
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18:35<millisa>sort of. https://www.linode.com/docs/tools-reference/custom-kernels-distros/install-a-custom-distribution-on-a-linode
18:36<millisa>you could also install on a virtualbox locally and image it over
18:37<Sourish>can i transfer the virtualbox to linode and setup server from it ?
18:38<Sourish>* virtualbox OS image
18:41<millisa>you could by booting both into a rescue environment and dd'ing the disks over; what are you trying to install?
18:42<Sourish>vicidial or goautodial
18:46<millisa>well, for goautodial, you could just go with a centos7 linode and install it according to: http://www.goautodial.org/projects/goautodialce/wiki/Centos7
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22:25<linbot>New news from forum: General Discussion • Gmail.com Log On <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14921&p=73836#p73836>
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22:36<relidy>^ spam
22:37<FluffyFoxeh>really weird spam
22:37<FluffyFoxeh>I clicked the link and it's a massive wall of text
22:38<FluffyFoxeh>"4 Tips For Gmail.com Login Sign Success"
22:38<FastLizard4>lol wut
22:38<retro|blah>lolno.
22:38<relidy>Step 1: Use the correct username and password.
22:38<FluffyFoxeh>it has but one link in the middle of it that goes to some website, I assume it's some SEO ploy
22:39<millisa>4 tips? You mean 3 loser tips and 1 top tip
22:39<FastLizard4>Reminds me of those YouTube videos that purported to show some program you could download to hack into anyone's gmail account
22:39<FluffyFoxeh>this one tells you to enable file extensions and install wireshark
22:40<FastLizard4>With a convenient link to the .exe in the video description
22:45<linbot>New news from forum: Current Betas • Linode REST API (v4) - Early Access <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14885&p=73837#p73837>
22:55<linbot>New news from forum: Linux Networking • Logging drop records iptables <https://forum.linode.com/viewtopic.php?t=14922&p=73838#p73838>
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 20 00:00:41 2017