Back to Home / #mythtv / 2002 / 10 / Prev Day
#mythtv IRC Logs for 2002-10-11

01:12-!-Namapoos [Soopaman@h24-66-52-13.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #mythtv
01:12<Namapoos>hello
01:12<Namapoos>is anyone around/awake?
01:23<Chutt>for a few more minutes
01:24<Namapoos>what is up
01:24<Namapoos>and what is your association with mythtv
01:24<Namapoos>?
01:24<Chutt>i'm the author
01:28<Namapoos>did i talk to you on AVS?
01:29* Namapoos= Soopaman
01:29<Chutt>"what's up. I've been meaning to email you for a while, but work has gotten really hectic as of late. I was wondering if you wanted to join efforts on the MythTV project. I have been creating the same thing as you, except I put more time into the audio portion, and the ui, with the tv portion being my next venture. The only concern that may arise, is that I may bundle/sell my version of the software package, where I am not too sure as for
01:29<Chutt>that?
01:30<Namapoos>heh
01:30<Namapoos>that was damn quick
01:30<Chutt>had a browser open
01:30<Namapoos>so what's new?
01:31<Chutt>nothing
01:32<Namapoos>you mind if we privatize this convo?
01:32<Chutt>does it matter?
01:33<Namapoos>i guess not
01:33<Namapoos>but what are your thoughts on my perspective
01:33<Chutt>what perspective?
01:34<Namapoos>the joining and such
01:35<Chutt>i haven't seen anything you've done
01:35<Namapoos>true, but i don't want to show, because I am worried it will get jacked
01:35<Chutt>suuuure
01:35<Namapoos>heh
01:36<Namapoos>what's with all the attitude?
01:36<Chutt>well
01:36<Chutt>you _do_ know what the term 'open source' means, right?
01:37<Namapoos>for the most part
01:37<Namapoos>but i don't know what would happen if I added my part
01:37<Namapoos>would i HAVE to give you the source?
01:38<Chutt>ok, so you don't know what it means, then
01:39<Namapoos>can you summarize
01:39<Namapoos>for the win32 kids?
01:39<Chutt>mythtv's a linux program, too, btw
01:39<Namapoos>i know that
01:41<Chutt>it's distributed under the GPL
01:41<Chutt>anything that links to it must also be distributed under the GPL
01:43<Namapoos>ok
01:44<Namapoos>i'll just a custom version for mythtv
01:44<Namapoos>err "make a"
01:44<Namapoos>gtk/qt, or custom drawkit?
01:44<Namapoos>err toolkit
01:44<Chutt>you still haven't told me what you want
01:46<Namapoos>more or less to overhaul the ui
01:46<Namapoos>to one that is more similar/commercial to my own
01:46<Chutt>to look like, what, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=788935&fullpage=1
01:46<Chutt>that?
01:46<Namapoos>i just wanted to move awawy from windows
01:46<Namapoos>nah, that was my old old old one
01:46<Chutt>which looks like ass.
01:46<Namapoos>i know
01:46<Chutt>and really says to me, 'here's a guy that's full of shit'
01:46<Namapoos>hahahah
01:47<Namapoos>you sure got a mouth on you
01:47<Namapoos>don't really understand the need for it
01:48<Chutt>saying 'i don't want to show you anything, because i'm afraid it's going to get jacked' translates to 'i have nothing'
01:49<Namapoos>true, but you gotta understand that I have alot of time invested into it
01:49<Chutt>err, so?
01:49<Namapoos>it may be more of a pride thing, but i just don't want someone eating off my work
01:51<Namapoos>hmm.... jordan picks up charles oakley...
01:54<Chutt>so anyway, you've basically got 0 credibility with me until i see some code.
01:55<Namapoos>that's cool
01:55<Chutt>and come back when you've read the GPL
01:55<Namapoos>but i need your help to know with what to start to code with on linux
01:56<Chutt>err
02:01<Chutt>why would i do that?
02:03<Namapoos>simple
02:03<Namapoos>if you use qt
02:03<Namapoos>and i start with gtk
02:03<Namapoos>i assume i couldn't blend my code with yours
02:04* Syn-wonders why you dont just download the source and look
02:04<Namapoos>blah
02:04<Chutt>it's on the webpage several times, as well
02:04<Namapoos>i'll just do that
02:04<Chutt>and it's pretty obvious from looking at the screenshots what toolkit it is
02:04<Syn->this has to be the funniest convo ive seen in a while, its going in my 'save' bin :)
02:04<Chutt>yeah, i've been laughing my ass off for quite some time
02:04<Namapoos>glad to know i amuse you syn
02:04<Namapoos>heheh
02:04<Syn->:)
02:06* Namapoosfinishes ordering his gun online, and now begins his patient 7-day wait for justice...
02:08<Chutt>so, let's see a screenshot
03:35<Syn->hrm still generating a ss i see ;)
03:35<Syn->chutt, any way of integrating a better audio rip? (like if its digital cable and has dobly digital on the broadcast)
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06:56* vektorROTFL
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11:31<vektor>Chutt: That was fucking hilarious dude :)
11:32<Chutt>heh
11:32<Chutt>hey, tvtime's fairly neat
11:33<Chutt>did you see what i said about it?
11:45<Chutt>syn, around? do you have a digital audio input that you can record from?
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13:54<Syn->nope not as of yet, I just stumbled upon this project when lookin for how mature the do it yourself PVRs are compared to a Tivo. So instead of buying a tivo i intend on going this route. Ive gotta research the hardware alot more still, know of any cards that have a digital in? Audigy might but ive heard bad things about them...
13:55<Chutt>dunno, really
13:55<Chutt>but, that's really the only way to get higher quality audio input
14:01<SadMan>Chutt: what tv card you got?
14:01<vektor>Chutt: What did you say about it?
14:02<Chutt>vektor, seems to be kinda flickery?
14:02<Chutt>i dunno how to describe it
14:02<vektor>Yes, it would be.
14:02<vektor>When you're running it, hit 'd'.
14:02<vektor>I'm _very_ curious to know what stats you're getting.
14:02<vektor>This will also tell you your XVideo upload latency.
14:03<Chutt>tvtime: aquire 10434, build top 3085 blit top 2268 built bot 3287 free input 174 wait bot 11924 blit bot 2209
14:03<vektor>Um, WOW!
14:03<vektor>What machine do you have?
14:03<Chutt>xp 1800+
14:04<vektor>And what video card?
14:04<Chutt>good wow or bad wow? :)
14:04<vektor>No, that's like _very_ low blit latencies.
14:04<vektor>And it's _very_ fast to construct the frames too.
14:04<vektor>Makes me want an xp 1800+.
14:04<Chutt>sadman, a ati tv wonder ve and a hauppauge wintv-radio
14:04<vektor>So, you're able to build the field and blit it and have 10ms of idle time.
14:04<Chutt>vektor, fast ram, a gf4 ti4200, etc
14:04<vektor>Out of 16 total.
14:04<Chutt>yeah
14:04<vektor>Yeah, that kicks ass.
14:05<Chutt>like i said, the frame rate is smooth
14:05<vektor>Ok, what's the refresh of your monitor?
14:05<SadMan>Chutt: and you can get audio off wintv using btaudio module?
14:05<Chutt>sadman, yes
14:05<SadMan>w/o any tweaking?
14:05<Chutt>the digital dsp device, 32000 sampling rate
14:05<vektor>The flickering you're seeing is almost definitely aliasing between the refresh of your monitor and the framerate of the video.
14:05<Chutt>vektor, it _looks_ more like the interpolation between fields
14:05<vektor>Really?
14:06<vektor>Hrm.
14:06<vektor>Sounds wrong.
14:06<Chutt>almost as if stuff's bouncing up and down one line
14:06<Chutt>well, not bouncing
14:06<Chutt>but
14:06<vektor>Yeah, you'll notice that if your monitor refresh is causing a beat pattern with the interpolated video.
14:06<vektor>What's your mointor refresh?
14:06<Chutt>dunno
14:06<SadMan>Chutt: btw, there seem to be some bugs when you got less than 5 or 6 chans defined
14:06<SadMan>tho you americans w/ bazillion chans won't see them :P
14:07<Chutt>sadman, should be fine with at least 3 channels
14:07<Chutt>in cvs at least
14:07<vektor>Chutt: I can send you an app to tell you your refresh rate. Want it?
14:07<Chutt>sure
14:07<vektor>I wrote it two days ago for some guy on #xfree86
14:07<vektor>Based on some code I already had.
14:07<SadMan>Chutt: well, i was populating db manually
14:07<SadMan>i made an mistake and started w/ chanid 1 and not 0
14:07<SadMan>mythepg weas segfaulting immediately
14:07<Chutt>that shouldn't matter
14:08<SadMan>it does
14:08<Chutt>doubt it
14:08<SadMan>i can tell you the line where it dies
14:08<Chutt>since my first chanid is like 1003
14:08<vektor>Chutt: Can you accept the dcc?
14:08<Chutt>and not 0
14:08<Chutt>vektor, would prefer if on a website, i'm not ircing from the computer it'd be running on
14:08<SadMan>then there had to be some more factors involved
14:08<SadMan>but when i inserted chan w/ chanid 0, it started to work
14:08<vektor>Chutt: Ok justasec.
14:09<Chutt>sadman, a backtrace would be nice.
14:09<vektor>Chutt: http://vektor.theorem.ca/graphics/refresh/vidinfo-0.1.tar.gz
14:10<Chutt>vektor 75
14:10<vektor>Chutt: Ok, well, that's going to cause bad aliasing. :)
14:10<Chutt>heh
14:10<SadMan>Chutt: ain't got it anymore, i've recompiled a few times
14:10<SadMan>but it was in guidegrid.cpp
14:10<SadMan>getProgramInfo()
14:10<SadMan> if (m_channelInfos[chanNum].chanstr == "" || !m_timeInfos[col])
14:10<vektor>Chutt: I find it looks _awesome_ if my monitor is at 800x600x120hz.
14:10<SadMan>died on this comparison
14:10<vektor>Chutt: But that's a bit infeasible.
14:10<Chutt>vektor, i don't think my monitor handles that =)
14:11<vektor>Chutt: You should consider putting your monitor at 60hz (I can tell you how) and seeing how it looks.
14:11<Chutt>it's a cheapy
14:11<vektor>just change VertRefresh 50.0-160.0 (or whatever) in your XF86Config-4 to 50.0-62.0 and then X will almost definitely pick a 60hz mode.
14:12<Chutt>ok
14:12<Chutt>'sec.
14:12<vektor>Coooool :)
14:13<vektor>BTW, the tvtime in CVS has an awesome OSD when you change channels or change volume (+/- on the keypad). It looks really cool. You should copy the style in mythtv ;-)
14:13<SadMan>Chutt: btw, what should Setup button in tv menu do? it does nothing for me and i'm lazy to search in src ;-)
14:13<Chutt>it's not hooked up to anything
14:13<SadMan>ok
14:13<SadMan>that explains it
14:14<Chutt>vektor, same thing
14:15<Chutt>vektor, i'll probably make it fade out like that =)
14:15<vektor>Chutt: It's cool :)
14:15<vektor>(the fade-out)
14:16<Chutt>yeah
14:16<vektor>I'm weirded out by the flicker. I mean, it should _flicker_ a bit, but it shouldn't look any worse than a TV, and clearly from what you've said, it does.
14:16<Chutt>i need to make it only calculate the text once per string anyway
14:16<Chutt>yeah
14:16<vektor>What do you mean by only calc once per string?
14:16<Chutt>it would give me a headache if i watched it for long
14:16<Chutt>do all the character layout once per string of text
14:16<Chutt>instead of doing it each frame
14:16<vektor>Ok, something is wrong then, I'll see if I can figure it out here.
14:17<vektor>You regenerate the text each frame?
14:17<vektor>Odd, I didn't get that from your code.
14:17<Chutt>yep
14:17<vektor>You see how my code works, right?
14:17<Chutt>yup
14:17<vektor>It's dirt simple.
14:17<Chutt>i'd been meaning to do that =)
14:17<vektor>heh.
14:17<Chutt>was just lazy
14:17<vektor>I still think I should be filtering the chroma a bit though
14:17<vektor>Like, I think my colour is sucking on the edges.
14:18<vektor>And I want to try your method of constructing edges around the text.
14:18<vektor>Text without edges is a bit nasty, although I want to find a Sony TV and see what they do.
14:18<vektor>Like, do Sony TVs just use ugly-bright-green text?
14:18<vektor>If so, I might do that too.
14:18<vektor>I really like their green :)
14:18<Chutt>heh
14:18<Chutt>i like the white with black border
14:18<Chutt>makes it show up regardless
14:18<vektor>If they have a border then I'll have to figure out what they're doing or do my own font with border.
14:18<Chutt>just takes a little more cpu =)
14:18<vektor>Yeah, it's true.
14:18<vektor>Well, the way you do it it does.
14:18<Chutt>yeah
14:18<vektor>But I think you can generate text borders better.
14:19<vektor>I tried by doing a two-pass thing per scanline to do horizontal borders.
14:19<Chutt>if i could calculate once and then just blend
14:19<vektor>Looked 'ok'.
14:19<vektor>Ah, true.
14:19<vektor>Still, there must be a better way to do borders.
14:19<Chutt>probably
14:19<vektor>I want soft borders though, so maybe your method is cheap enough and can give me that :)
14:19<Chutt>yeah
14:19<Chutt>'specially with the freetype 2 update
14:19<Chutt>it's a lot softer than it was
14:20* vektorcan't wait.
14:20<Chutt>that's all in cvs
14:20<Chutt>i did change the api, though =)
14:20<vektor>Do you like my nasty object oriented C style? :)
14:20<Chutt>heh
14:20<vektor>Yeah it's ok.
14:20<Chutt>made it an actual class
14:20<Chutt>per font, instead of just random functions
14:20<vektor>I can easily put your C++ object into a C-API file.
14:20<vektor>Yep.
14:21<Chutt>yeah
14:21<vektor>So we can share a bit easier :)
14:21<Chutt>the main reason was so that i could just do a forward declaration of the ttffont class in osd.h
14:21<Chutt>so anything else that included osd.h wasn't pulling in the freetype includes
14:22<vektor>good.
14:22<vektor>freetype includes pollute! :)
14:23<Chutt>i'm putting a 0.6 release out tomorrow afternoon, i think
14:24<vektor>Chutt: Also, for performance and cache coherency, scanline algorithms rock.
14:24<Chutt>heh
14:24<vektor>So, I would recommend having your font drawing code be a scanline function.
14:24<vektor>That way, you scan grab a scanline from the input, composite, write to the output, go to the next scanline.
14:24<Chutt>doesn't it sorta do that already?
14:25<vektor>um...
14:25<vektor>Well last I saw you had a full merge function... no?
14:25<Chutt>haven't changed that
14:25<vektor> void DrawString(unsigned char *yuvptr, int x, int y, const QString &text,
14:25<vektor> int maxx, int maxy, bool white = true,
14:25<vektor> bool rightjustify = false);
14:25<vektor>exactly.
14:25<vektor>I would recommend instead just have a function DrawStringOnScanline();
14:26<vektor>That way, you can composite as you copy to the XVideo or whatever output.
14:26<Chutt>it composites to the xv buffer
14:26<vektor>BTW, re: performance, on my machine it takes 5ms to build the frame, and 3-4ms to blit.
14:26<vektor>Yes, but you've already copied the input frame onto the XVideo buffer.
14:26<Chutt>yeah, hrm
14:27<vektor>I mean, do it one scanline at a time, so that way you've got the input scanline already in cache.
14:27<Chutt>ok
14:27<vektor>So, copy input scanline to XVideo scanline, composite onto XVideo scanline.
14:27<Chutt>i'd need to build the entire osd beforehand, then
14:27<vektor>It's a technique I learned at work. Scanline functions were one of the best ways we improved speed.
14:27<vektor>Well, compositing is associative, right?
14:28<vektor>So the way I'm going to do it is to have a stack of virtual OSD screens.
14:28<vektor>So per scanline I go through who's on it, and composite to the output each one, back to front.
14:28<vektor>Well, I haven't really decided how I'm going to do it.
14:28<Chutt>heh
14:28<vektor>But at least all my functions are scanline functions so I can figure out the big algorithms later ;-)
14:29<Chutt>heh, right
14:29<Chutt>anyway
14:29<Chutt>i'll bbiab
14:29<Chutt>need to go get a full tank of gas
14:29<vektor>lates.
14:44<Chutt>heh
14:45<Chutt>so i wonder what that calvin guy's db problem is
14:45<vektor>Is he the guy I completely cut off?
14:45<Chutt>naw
14:45<Chutt>some guy on the mailing list
14:45<vektor>oh ok :)
14:45<Chutt>can't record for some reason
14:46<Chutt>he's not too timely in responding to emails =)
14:46<vektor>he's 1n n33d 0v l337 sk1llz maybe?
14:46<Chutt>so it's hard to debug
14:46<Chutt>naw
14:46<Chutt>probably something simple
14:46<vektor>k.
14:47<vektor>i like how you consider 'linearblendyuv420' to be an "effect" :)
14:47<vektor>i want to support transitions when changing channels. like, do a soft wipe from channel 5 to channel 6 ;-)
14:47<Chutt>heh
14:48<vektor>i should go buy another bttv i guess, eh? :)
14:48<Chutt>needed a name for the file =)
14:48<vektor>do you have two capture cards?
14:48<Chutt>yup
14:48<vektor>and do they both work ok when run concurrently?
14:48<Chutt>yup
14:48<vektor>at full rez?
14:48<vektor>:)
14:48<Chutt>yup
14:48<vektor>I'm worried about the PCI bandwidth.
14:49<Chutt>it's enough, seems like
14:49<vektor>Wow.
14:49<vektor>That _would_ be cool to see like a radial wipe to the next channel ;-)
14:49<Chutt>heh
14:49<vektor>star!
14:49<vektor>hehe
14:49<Chutt>some guy asked me if he could compress 3 streams of data at once, and handle a playback
14:49<Chutt>with an xp 2000
14:49<vektor>ahaha.
14:49<vektor>foolio.
14:50<Chutt>well
14:50<Chutt>he _could_
14:50<Chutt>if it was like 320x200
14:50<vektor>yep.
14:50<Chutt>probably
14:50<Chutt>but that'd bite
14:50<vektor>I'm still freaked out by your 'flickering' problem.
14:50<vektor>Can you do me a favour?
14:50<vektor>Do you get 'cnn'?
14:50<Chutt>sure
14:50<vektor>You must :)
14:50<Chutt>of course
14:50<vektor>You know the scrolling text along the bottom?
14:50<Chutt>the text scroll is smooth
14:50<vektor>Can you tell me how 'smooth' it looks?
14:50<vektor>Damn.
14:51<Chutt>heh
14:51<Chutt>it's like, the topmost scanline seems to be blinking on and off, too
14:51<vektor>Well, yeah, I know that's my fault.
14:51<vektor>But it should be kinda.
14:51<Chutt>which, i'd assume would be a interpolation artifact
14:51<vektor>I mean, remember, you're seeing the overscan.
14:51<Chutt>right
14:51<vektor>Have you ever seen a video monitor with the overscan?
14:52<vektor>There's a half-scanline on the top, and it bounces ;-)
14:52<Chutt>but the rest of the flickering is in time with that top scanline
14:52<vektor>Yeah, see, you shouldn't be able to _see_ the flicker.
14:52<vektor>It should just sort of flicker at that annoying 60hz.
14:52<vektor>But this sounds different.
14:52<vektor>This sounds like more visible bouncing.
14:52<Chutt>it's really very obvious on text
14:52<vektor>Yeah.
14:52<vektor>You shouldn't see that.
14:52<vektor>Ok.
14:52<vektor>I'll look into it when I get home.
14:52<Chutt>less so on people and junk
14:52<Chutt>cool =)
14:52* vektorcan't debug this over ssh :)
14:52<Chutt>heh
14:52<Chutt>"why not?" =0
14:53<Chutt>blah blah blah
14:54<vektor>I should do a test where I just draw black-white-black-white frames and see how even/uneven it looks.
14:54<vektor>That should tell you pretty conclusively how much the refresh rate is affecting it.
14:55<Chutt>right
14:55<vektor>(affecting or effecting in that sentence?)
14:55<Chutt>a, i think
14:55<vektor>k.
14:56<vektor>I did a patch to X to allow you to change the refresh rate dynamically.
14:56<vektor>I need to submit it back.
14:56<vektor>That's where the code in vidinfo is from.
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15:48<Chutt>wonder who he was
15:48<vektor>Was that... Conaz the BARBARIAN?!
15:49<Chutt>hah
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