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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2002-10-30

00:00<Antw73>will the database and the recorded file work with the 0.6 version?
00:00<Chutt>it _should_ but
00:00<Chutt>i dunno
00:00<Chutt>but, real quick
00:00<Chutt>can you comment out the WriteAudio(zeros, 1024);
00:00<Antw73>sure
00:00<Chutt>lines at 1267 and 1260?
00:01<Chutt>don't need to resend anything
00:01<Antw73>done, build yet? =)
00:01<Chutt>just want to know if it helps or not
00:01<Antw73>k
00:01<Chutt>if it doesn't, there'll be more debugging lines
00:01<Antw73>oh goodie =)
00:02<Chutt>oh yes :p
00:02<Antw73>time to double the scrollback again then =)
00:05<Antw73>nope, same thing, video goes slowmo and the audio buffer gets out of sync, then it repeats the same unsync pattern every 15 seconds or so, whether or not I us the FF/RW again, seem to resync after the FF quickly now, but loses sync again 15 seconds later and takes about 10 seconds to resync.
00:06<Chutt>hrm
00:06<Antw73>live tv is still just peachy and perfect in all conditions
00:06<Chutt>which is very weird
00:07<Antw73>yup, you'd think live would be the first thing to freak out
00:08<Chutt>exactly
00:09<Chutt>oh, and no, 0.6 won't be able to play those files
00:09<Antw73>nope, watching morning news and using ff/rw a lot just now, working great
00:10<Antw73>heh, thought it was freaky live there for a sec, was an action replay in slowmo of a sports game, doh
00:10<Chutt>heh
00:11<Antw73>btw, love the quality of the live tv, thanks a lot
00:11<Chutt>'welcome.
00:12<Antw73>I have a small patch for you at some point for mythfilldatabase to allow the swedish channels =)
00:12<Chutt>sooner the better for that
00:12<Chutt>0.7 might be coming out soon
00:13<Antw73>ok, let me get that off to you later on today then, I need to write up some docs for fixing the XMLTV output in the database too
00:13<Antw73>its all messed up for europeans just now
00:14<Antw73>I blame the lack of standard channel settings over here =)
00:14<Chutt>heh
00:15<Chutt>hrm
00:15<Chutt>so
00:15<Antw73>AHA!
00:15<Antw73>I've managed to recreate the bug live
00:16<Antw73>pressing the FF button too fast, before the feed has a chance to resync causes the same symtom
00:17<Chutt>hrm
00:17<Antw73>shouldn't that be sitting in a nice happy mutex thoug?
00:17<Chutt>it is
00:17<Antw73>hrm...
00:18<Antw73>can you recreate that bug locally?
00:18<Chutt>nope
00:18<Antw73>grrr.
00:18<Chutt>one sec
00:19<Antw73>I'm going to try playing nice with the recording and see if it survives FF and RW if I give it a chance to sync
00:20-!-Chutt2 [~ijr@dsl093-011-148.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #mythtv
00:20<Chutt2>set time: 122739 123469 93572 88452 3201124 1035952665 237879
00:20<Chutt2>set time: 118717 123469 608540 96540 3201124 1035952665 238702
00:20<Chutt>see the difference in the 3rd number there?
00:21-!-Chutt2 [] has quit [Client Quit]
00:21<Antw73>yup
00:21<Chutt>i think that's the problem
00:21<Antw73>ok, whats that number mean?
00:21<Chutt>well
00:22<Chutt>it's the total number of bytes in the internal audio buffer plus what's not been played on the soundcard yet
00:23<Chutt>it shouldn't be jumping 500kb
00:23<Antw73>ok
00:23<Chutt>now, just time to figure out _why_
00:25<Chutt>hrm
00:25<Chutt>line 679
00:25<Chutt>function: audiolen()
00:25<Chutt>before the unlock
00:25<Antw73>yup
00:25<Chutt>cout << "audiolen " << AUDBUFSIZE << " " << raud << " " << waud << endl;
00:26<Antw73>inside or outside the if?
00:26<Chutt>before the if
00:26<Chutt>anywhere in that function, really
00:26<Chutt>but not in the if (use_lock)
00:26<Antw73>done
00:26<Chutt>so i guess it's not really 'anywhere'
00:26<Antw73>heh
00:27<Antw73>want the log?
00:27<Chutt>yup
00:28<TardisX>CHECK
00:28<TardisX>sorry, damn focus :-)
00:28<Chutt>heh
00:29<TardisX>focus follows mouse, except when switching workspaces :-)
00:30<TardisX>so is a cvs update and recompile a scary proposition at the moment? I haven't yet got the version that can record extra on programs.... but is now a bad time?
00:30<Chutt>well
00:30<Chutt>current cvs is working fine for me
00:31<TardisX>ok I'll do it...
00:31<Chutt>and, if it breaks like it's doing for him for you, that'd be good to know
00:31<TardisX>I'm not scared :-)
00:31<TardisX>OK I'm not at home right now. I'll compile it now, and try it tonight...
00:32<Antw73>heheh, ok, log sent, its getting pretty big
00:32<Chutt>yeah
00:33<Antw73>sorry TardisX, but I kinda hope you have the same problem =) no offense yer know =)
00:33<TardisX>:-)
00:34<Antw73>erk, GF noticed I am still up, brb got to explain meself =)
00:34<Chutt>hrm
00:34<Chutt>that's weird
00:35<TardisX>what the GF bit?
00:35<Chutt>no
00:35<Chutt>the log
00:35<TardisX>:-)
00:37<Antw73>back =) so, whats not wierd about me today....
00:37<Chutt>heh
00:38<Chutt>are you using mp3 compression, or not?
00:38<Antw73>not
00:39<Chutt>hm
00:41<TardisX>strip: /usr/local/share/mythtv/themes/: Is a directory
00:41<TardisX>make[1]: *** [install_themes] Error 1
00:41<Chutt>what version of qt is that?
00:41<Chutt>people keep telling me it does that for them, but it shouldn't be stripping things
00:42<TardisX>[root@leela MC]# rpm -q qt
00:42<TardisX>qt-3.0.5-17
00:42<TardisX>it seems non-fatal
00:43<Antw73>I'm using 3.0.5 too, not seen that beofre
00:43<Chutt>it is, but it's means it's probably stripping all the binaries on install
00:43<Chutt>which is kinda bad if you want to debug things
00:44<Namapoos>hey Chutt
00:44<Namapoos>i've been meaning to ask you
00:44<Namapoos>is there any reason you chose qt instead of gtk?
00:44<Chutt>longstanding dislike of gtk
00:44<Antw73>oooo, thats not a question you should ask in the open =)
00:45<Antw73>thats like the vi/emacs thing
00:46<Chutt>heh
00:46<Chutt>ah
00:46<Chutt>line 1307
00:46<Chutt>if (bytesperframe <= audiolen(false))
00:46<Chutt>make that a <
00:46<Antw73>ok, anyting else?
00:47-!-Chutt2 [~bleh@dsl093-011-148.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #mythtv
00:48<Chutt2>blah
00:48<Chutt2>what'd i say last?
00:48<Antw73>make that a <
00:48<Antw73>and I said, anyting else? =)
00:48<Chutt2>[00:47] <Chutt> make that a <
00:48<Chutt2>[00:47] <Chutt> instead of a <=
00:48<Chutt2>[00:47] <Chutt> you don't need to generate a logfile
00:48<Chutt2>[00:47] <Chutt> just tell me if that helps/hurts any
00:48<Chutt2>there
00:48<Antw73>ok
00:48<Antw73>building
00:48<Namapoos>Chutt, because of what it does, or just preference
00:48-!-Chutt [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:49-!-Chutt2 is now known as Chutt
00:49<Chutt>gtk sucks
00:49<Chutt>badly.
00:50<Chutt>it's poorly documented
00:50<Chutt>things like the tree widget are _way_ overcomplicated
00:51<Chutt>and it's extremely limiting in its design
00:51<Antw73>you know what, I think that got it, let me just stress it a little more.
00:52<Antw73>BTW I agree with Chutt, for all but 3D stuff I use QT, for 3D I use gtk, but only because I've always used gtkgl widgets =)
00:53<Chutt>i've written a few tens of thousands of lines of gtk
00:53<Chutt>got tired of digging through the gtk source just to figure out how the hell i was supposed to be doing something
00:54<Chutt>so i figured i'd try and learn qt when i started mythtv =)
00:54<Antw73>nod, I only tend to write small frontends in either so I've never really hit on big problems with either =)
00:54<Antw73>ok, looks like you nailed down my syncing problem
00:54<Chutt>that was it?
00:54<Antw73>yup
00:54<Chutt>sweet
00:54<Chutt>how long did that take?
00:54<Chutt>3 hours
00:54<Chutt>geez
00:55<Antw73>hmmm, nearly 2 hours
00:55<Antw73>that long???
00:55<Antw73>ack =)
00:55<Chutt>yeah
00:55<Chutt>ok
00:55<Chutt>changes were
00:55<Chutt>that <= to a <
00:55<Antw73>oh well, work in an hour =)
00:55<Chutt>and the extra gettimeofday(&nexttrigger
00:55<Antw73>yup
00:55<Chutt>it'll be in my next commit
00:55<Chutt>i need to go to bed or something =)
00:56<TardisX>I guess I'll compile again when I get home :-)
00:56<Chutt>well
00:56<Antw73>and a couple of small things here and there, did we change anything else?
00:56<Chutt>thing is
00:56<Chutt>err, i dunno
00:56<Chutt>can you do a cvs diff and email it to me?
00:56<Antw73>let me run a quick diff
00:56<Antw73>heheh
00:56<Antw73>whats the CVS server, I've been grabbing tarballs
00:57<Chutt>anyway, thing is, if i do a checkin now, i'm going to break everything besides the mythtv module, since i've changed libmyth around
00:57<Chutt>:pserver:mythtv@mythtv.org:/var/lib/cvs
00:57<Chutt>password is mythtv
00:59<Antw73>ok, pulling out MC module, I'll whip an edited diff over in a few mins, I'll clip out the guerilla debugging bits
00:59<Chutt>ok
00:59<Chutt>thanks
00:59<Antw73>well, I'm pretty sure you don't want to commit those =)
00:59<Chutt>heh
00:59<Chutt>yeah, not quite =)
00:59<Antw73>hehe
01:00<Antw73>whats the time over there now?
01:00<Chutt>1 am
01:00<Chutt>but i got used to going to bed early during my vacation
01:00<Antw73>ouch, 7am here, thanks for all the help today
01:00<TardisX>I've got 4:30pm just for kicks :-)
01:01<Antw73>If I'm lucky I'll get an hour before I have to go be sysadmin for the Swedish government again =)
01:01<Chutt>heh
01:01<Antw73>so, no nasty attacks today plz kiddies =)
01:01<Chutt>heh
01:02<Antw73>good night, thanks again. I'll get this diff off, and a patch for the filldb stuff too
01:02<Chutt>cool
01:03<Chutt>a patch for the australian grabber would be nice, too :)
01:05<TardisX>diff -r1.13 filldata.cpp
01:05<TardisX>698c698
01:05<TardisX>< else if (xmltv_grabber == "tv_grab_na")
01:05<TardisX>---
01:05<TardisX>> else if ((xmltv_grabber == "tv_grab_na") || (xmltv_grabber == "tv_grab_aus"))
01:05<TardisX>but I wouldn't trust my grabber as far as I could throw it :-)
01:05<Chutt>heh
01:05<Chutt>heh
01:05<Chutt>but, you mailed it to the xmltv guy, right?
01:05<TardisX>yep. I'm trying to make it presentable for xmltv distribution.
01:05<TardisX>right now it only works in my state
01:05<TardisX>and has no configuration :-)
01:06<TardisX>all eveil hardcoded stuff
01:06<TardisX>but next couple of days should make it more presentable
01:06<Chutt>ah
01:06<Chutt>well, i'll make that change, at least
01:06<TardisX>I hate parsing web pages that's for sure
01:06<Chutt>yup
01:06<Antw73>don't we all =)
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01:08<Antw73>ok, found 1 other thing we did, commmenting out the WriteAudio things....
01:08<Chutt>yeah, i'm going to leave that out
01:09<Chutt>those should be fine, i was just grabbing at possible causes
01:09<Antw73>ok, I'll leave them in the diff, you can remember that =) sending it now
01:09<Chutt>cool
01:10<Chutt>pml, you just sent an email to the list, right?
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01:10<Chutt>ok, fine
01:10<Chutt>=)
01:10<TardisX>is exporting to some other video format, and editing of recorded shows anywhere near the top of the list? Just curious...
01:10<Chutt>exporting's nowhere on my list
01:11<Chutt>editing things as far as taking out commercials is, though
01:11<Antw73>ok, night all
01:11<TardisX>because exporting is just something that an external program can do, it just needs to do 'stuff' to the .nuv file right?
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01:11<Chutt>g'nite
01:11<TardisX>nite
01:11<Chutt>right
01:12<Namapoos>taking out commercials would be sweet
01:12<Chutt>yeah
01:12<Chutt>just a little edit mode when you're playing a file back
01:13<Namapoos>do you think you can catch/capture the flags when they splice the commercials in?
01:13<TardisX>is taking out commercials hard, in that, you've got a stream of bytes that you suddenly want to take a few meg out of the middle of? do you have to re-write the rest of the file after?
01:13<TardisX>or would it be more like you mark the bits to clip, and do it in batch after
01:13<Chutt>tardisx, well, i'm thinking of doing it two ways
01:13<Namapoos>i think it would be best to mark
01:13<Chutt>have a 'soft' remove list
01:13<Namapoos>verify
01:13<Namapoos>then "trim"
01:13<Namapoos>like a bin/cue file
01:13<Chutt>which just marks everything and skips it on subsequent playbacks
01:13<TardisX>gotcha
01:14<Chutt>then you'd be able to commit that, where it'd go through and remove things, creating new keyframes, etc
01:14<Chutt>which would require rewriting the file
01:14<Chutt>automatic commercial removal is more difficult, of course =)
01:15<TardisX>one of our channels it would be easy.
01:15<TardisX>because they put a watermark on EVERYTHING
01:15<TardisX>except the commercials :-)
01:15<Chutt>except commercials?
01:15<Chutt>yeah, prime time tv around here is like that
01:15<TardisX>can't watermark the paying sponsors, gosh no
01:16<TardisX>hehe being able to screen out ads based on that criteria would be the ultimate in-your-face to them ;-)
01:16<Namapoos>TardisX, that's a really good call
01:16<Namapoos>checking alpha layered watermarks
01:16<Chutt>i've seen the watermark == program in a few things that tried to do automatic removal
01:17<Namapoos>how was that?
01:17<Chutt>detecting a mark like that's fairly easy to do
01:18<Chutt>anyway
01:18<Namapoos>so wouldn't that make the commercial thing super easy then?
01:19<Chutt>no
01:19<Chutt>because you can't guarantee that
01:19<Chutt>not all channels do that
01:19<Chutt>they aren't always consistant, etc
01:19<Namapoos>can you think of a chan (outside of the weather channel) that doesn't watermark/tag?
01:20<Chutt>let's see
01:21<Namapoos>i can't find any over here
01:21<Chutt>my abc, upn, and fox stations aren't currently watermarking
01:21<Chutt>pbs has a _barely_ visible mark, i dunno if it'd be detectable
01:22<Namapoos>hmm.. only 2 channels
01:22<Namapoos>out of 50
01:22<Namapoos>don't watermark
01:33<Chutt>bed time for me
01:35<TardisX>nite!
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03:03<TechJosh>anybody active in here?
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05:12<ssharma>is anyone awake?
05:16<blinx>I am
05:23<ssharma>oh, I just wanted to know if anyone has mythtv working with a DishNetwork system yet?
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05:23<blinx>ah.. can't help you there
05:23<blinx>they don't even exists in my country :)
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09:40<skeetz>sir chutt?
09:44<Chutt>heh
09:44<Chutt>hi
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09:50<whatsit>Hauppauge WinTV GO FM... anybody use it?
09:51<whatsit>anybody alive?
09:51<Chutt>yes
09:52<whatsit>hey! Chutt's alive!
09:52<whatsit>;)
09:52<whatsit>Chutt: what tuner card do you use for your mythtv box?
09:53<Chutt>a hauppauge wintv-radio
09:53<whatsit>ic
09:53<skeetz>chutt
09:53<Chutt>and a ati tv wonder ve
09:53<skeetz>any thoughts on the wintv PVR usb?
09:53<Chutt>it's usb
09:53<skeetz>(this is skitzo btw)
09:53<Chutt>'nuff said
09:53<skeetz>wow, is it really?
09:53<skeetz></sarcasm>
09:53<skeetz>nevermind.
09:54<whatsit>i would like to get away with building a box out of parts I already have
09:54<Chutt>if it were usb2, then there'd be enough bandwidth to make it useful
09:54<skeetz>chutt
09:54<skeetz>it -does- full screen mpeg2
09:54<Chutt>at a limited bitrate
09:54<Chutt>sure
09:54<whatsit>but, i only have a pentium II 400Mhz... anybody else have a weak processor like that?
09:54<skeetz>the bitrate is 12 megabits...
09:54<skeetz>which is pretty reasonable IMHO.
09:55<Chutt>it's limited to 6
09:55<skeetz>eh?
09:55<skeetz>in the drivers its docced differently
09:56<skeetz>regardless, since when is 6 megabits not enough for mpeg2?
09:56<Chutt>heh, whatever
09:56<Chutt>it's still usb
09:56<skeetz>why are you being a jerk?
09:56<Chutt>i'm not interested until there's working drivers for an actual card
09:56<skeetz>right
09:57<whatsit>is playback going to be terrible at 352x240 full screen on a 400Mhz machine?
09:57<skeetz>keep that mentality - it'll get you far.
09:57<Chutt>don't be a dumbass.
09:57<Chutt>you asked for what i thought of the hardware
09:57<Chutt>i told you
09:58<skeetz><skeetz> any thoughts on the wintv PVR usb?
09:58<skeetz><Chutt> it's usb
09:58<skeetz><skeetz> (this is skitzo btw)
09:58<skeetz><Chutt> 'nuff said
09:58<skeetz>and you're calling me a dumbass, right.
09:59<mdz_>if a person, or a product, mentions USB and real-time video processing in the same breath, run the other way
10:00<skeetz>mdz_: i agree
10:00<skeetz>(generally)
10:00<skeetz>but this ACTUALLY looks decent
10:00<mdz_>whatsit: playback alone should be possible
10:00<skeetz>if it was raw video it would be another story
10:00<skeetz>but its not.
10:00<Chutt>low resolution recording alone should also be possible with a p2-400
10:01<mdz_>yes
10:01<Chutt>either or, though
10:01<mdz_>I was using one for a while
10:01<mdz_>DVD playback worked quite well also
10:01<whatsit>mdz_: did pausing live tv work?
10:01<Chutt>whatsit, that requires simultaneous recording and playback
10:01<whatsit>mdz_: I wonder becuase this involves recording a playback at the same time
10:02<Chutt>so no =)
10:02<whatsit>so, there's nothing I can do to the 400Mhz (short of overclocking or something) to make it work?
10:03<Chutt>you could also spend a couple hundred to get a modern machine :p
10:03<whatsit>heh... yeah but this was such a great deal at $30
10:03<whatsit>:)
10:03<mdz_>$30 including what?
10:03<mdz_>for motheboard+cpu+RAM that's no deal
10:04<mdz_>assuming you're talking US currency
10:04<whatsit>processor, motherboard, ram, case, powersupply, nic card, sound card, video card, modem (not needed)
10:04<whatsit>yes, US$
10:04<mdz_>ok, so keep the case, PSU, NIC, sound and video and get a decent board :-)
10:05<Chutt>heh
10:05<whatsit>problem: Dude! it's a Dell!
10:05<whatsit>;)
10:05<mdz_>whatsit: definitely not a deal then
10:05<Chutt>skeetz, if you want to write up support for that usb card, i won't stop you
10:05<whatsit>the case isn't really usable with another mb/proc
10:05<Chutt>:p
10:05<Chutt>the powersupply's probably proprietary too, no?
10:06<mdz_>whatsit: maybe they will fix it under warranty
10:06<whatsit>yeah
10:06<mdz_>whatsit: hello, support? my computer is obsolete
10:06<skeetz>Chutt: after being belittled for simply talking about it, i think not.
10:06<whatsit>lol
10:06<Chutt>heh
10:06<Chutt>how'd i belittle you?
10:06<skeetz>we're not going to re-cap the past 10 mins.
10:06<skeetz>forget i ever asked :)
10:06<Chutt>methinks someone's being stupid again
10:07<Chutt>anyway
10:07<whatsit>okay... so what do you think is the minimum for playback and recording at the same time?
10:08<whatsit>speaking in cpu speed anyway
10:08<Chutt>a gigahertz if you want decent quality
10:08<whatsit>how about if I just want to run 352x240 on a 20" screen?
10:09<Chutt>i dunno
10:09<Chutt>p3-600 or so?
10:09<whatsit>the site says 500Mhz, but I'm looking for some real life proof before I invest in another proc.
10:09<Chutt>right
10:09<Chutt>it's an estimate =)
10:09<whatsit>ic... thx
10:10<Chutt>since athlon xp 1500+ chips are $50 nowadays
10:10<Conaz>Well, I run a p3-1gig and playback and record (only to the 17" monitor currently) consumes about 70 percent cpu
10:11<Conaz>With spikes upward and downward of course
10:11<Chutt>rtjpeg @ 480x480?
10:15<whatsit>I'm talking about a 20" TV
10:16<whatsit>I've got an old trident video card with an S-Video out
10:16<Conaz>Yup, rtjpeg and 480x480
10:16<Chutt>you also kinda need an agp video card
10:16<Conaz>mpeg was obviously much more cpu hungry
10:17<whatsit>the agp card is built in, but has no tv out and no extra agp slot... Dude! This Dell Sucks!
10:18<Chutt>heh
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10:51<blinx>mmh.. I never got around to try and record and watch livetv at the same time..
10:52<Chutt>heh
10:57<whatsit>blinx: why not?
10:57<blinx>I just never tried it..
10:59<whatsit>ic
11:03<whatsit>okay... lets say I can get my hands on an AMD 1.13Ghz, GeForce4 AGP with TV-out, 256MB RAM, and Sound Blaster Live... would that let me record and playback at the same time?
11:03<whatsit>:)
11:03<mdz_>whatsit: it depends on what kind of quality you are interested it
11:03<mdz_>in
11:04<blinx>I have an Athlon 1400, Geforce 4 AGP, 512MB ram and SB Audigy - I can try when I get home :)
11:04<whatsit>blinx: that would be great
11:04<whatsit>I also have the potential of getting a Hollywood MPEG board, but I don't know how much that would help
11:05<blinx>also gotta test that btaudio module, it insmods correctly and creates a new dsp.. just gotta see if there is any sound
11:05<blinx>whatsit: isn't that just for decoding?
11:05<whatsit>yeah... it might be... I don't know much about it
11:06<whatsit>I thought it might be a general mpeg board that would help take the load off of the cpu when watching a recording
11:06<blinx>ok.. time to get home from work..
11:06<Chutt>right, but mythtv doesn't produce mpeg files :p
11:06<whatsit>agreed :)
11:07<whatsit>OIC
11:07<whatsit>what file format does it record to?
11:07<blinx>I'll be home in about 2 hours - I'll check the recording +livetv after I get my db sorted out.
11:07-!-Tuscany [~username@66.54.186.1] has joined #mythtv
11:07<whatsit>blinx: where do you live??? off in 2 hours?
11:08<Chutt>whatsit, he's talking about using 2 tuner cards, btw. you should be fine for pretty ok quality live-tv stuff with that cpu
11:08<blinx>whatsit, I live in Nyk\xF8bing Falster and work in Copenhagen :)
11:08<blinx>2 hours train ride..
11:09<blinx>couldn't be much farther away in this little country :)
11:09<blinx>but tech jobs are pretty much non existant in my area.
11:09<whatsit>geez
11:09<whatsit>I think half an hour to work is long... :)
11:10<blinx>I work for denmarks largest financial newspaper, as a sysadm.
11:10<blinx>we have 40K subscribers.. :)
11:10<blinx>proberly nothing compared to US standards :)
11:11<blinx>ok c'ya
11:11<whatsit>bye blinx
11:11-!-Universe [~uni@6532175hfc29.tampabay.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
11:14<whatsit>bye
11:14<-- whatsit(~whatsit@162.40.114.37) has left #mythtv
11:14<Chutt>there, fixed mythmusic
11:14<Universe>it was broken?
11:15<Chutt>yeah, i broke things last night
11:15<Universe>ahh
11:15<Chutt>putzing around in libmyth
11:15<Chutt>needed to fix it so i could have background music while i work =)
11:16<Universe>heh
11:37<Universe>question for ya Chutt if you are still there.
11:38<Chutt>yup
11:40<Universe>how do you get rid of the kde taskbar when your showing video? the mythfrontend converts it fine, but mythtv doesn't
11:40<Chutt>i've got it set to autohide
11:40<Universe>ahh ok
11:41<Universe>perfect.. thanks
11:56-!-orangey [~orangey@London-HSE-ppp3540784.sympatico.ca] has joined #mythtv
12:01<orangey>howdy, all!
12:01<Chutt>hi
12:01-!-whatsit [~whatsit@162.40.114.37] has joined #mythtv
12:01<orangey>chutt!!!!!!!
12:03<Chutt>err, yeah
12:03<orangey>I'm just excited is all : )
12:04<Chutt>obviously :p
12:05<vektor>Chutt: So, I did an output driver for the G400 TV output using tvtime.
12:05<vektor>so I can have OSD on my tv output and play with the settings and stuff.
12:05<vektor>I found out that the G400 hardware overlay is, I think, doing very bad stuff.
12:07<vektor>that is, the same Y'CbCr images, on my TV look excellent, and on the overlay/CRT are blurry and poor colour.
12:07<Chutt>heh
12:08<vektor>i mean, definitely the phosphors on my TV are much much much more powerful than my CRT
12:08<vektor>it's like 'Tide'
12:08<vektor>the whites are whiter
12:10<Universe>lol
12:10<whatsit>vektor... your taking your tv out and looping it back to your tv tuner card?
12:11<vektor>whatsit: uh, other way around, i'm capturing video from my tv tuner capture card and sending it out the TV output.
12:12<whatsit>okay.. the other way hurt my brain
12:12<vektor>also, the settings on the bttv (brightness, contrast, etc) all seem to make slightly more sense.
12:13<Chutt>they didn't make sense?
12:14<vektor>they did but i mean my whites don't seem to clip as nastily and the contrast control works better all around.
12:14<Chutt>ah
12:14<mdz_>vektor: I have a situation where my recordings look like crap on my TV, but look OK on my CRT
12:14<mdz_>my mythtv recordings, that is
12:14<vektor>mdz: hey I can believe that. you wouldn't believe the crap i had to go through to get good TV output under linux.
12:15<mdz_>other types of output seem to look better on the TV, though
12:15<vektor>I'm using this super-special-hacked-G400 driver that gives me perfect control over the TV encoder chip.
12:15<mdz_>I am not sure whether it is a capture problem or a TV output problem
12:15<vektor>How are you doing TV output?
12:16<mdz_>ATI card
12:16<vektor>And how does it do it?
12:16<vektor>Like, is it that just what you send to XVideo goes to the TV output?
12:16<vektor>Or is it like through X?
12:16<mdz_>through X
12:16<vektor>So, your whole X desktop is out there?
12:16<mdz_>correct
12:17<vektor>And does it send the overlay out there, or do you need to use software colourspace conversion?
12:17<mdz_>by overlay you mean...
12:17<vektor>I mean XVideo.
12:17<vektor>Hardware overlay surfaces.
12:17<mdz_>that just works
12:17<mdz_>don't need to do anything special with Xvideo
12:17<vektor>'anything special'.
12:17<mdz_>it shows up on the TV output
12:17<vektor>That's not what I meant.
12:18<vektor>Oh ok.
12:18<vektor>So your player uses XVideo and that also shows up on the TV output.
12:18<mdz_>correct
12:18<vektor>so, you have a video frame
12:18<vektor>you send it to XVideo
12:18<vektor>which converts it to RGB and scales
12:18<vektor>and then it converts it back to Y'CbCr to send out to the TV
12:18<mdz_>I am trying to determine if it is a peculiarity of the capture which shows up differently on the TV
12:18<vektor>I bet it's just that you're going through all these conversions.
12:18<vektor>and you lose mad precision and quality every conversion.
12:19<vektor>also, if the frames are interlaced, they won't be synced to the output
12:19<vektor>so you'll get jumpiness and flickeriness.
12:19<mdz_>the problem I see is with colour
12:19<vektor>what resolution do you record at?
12:19<Chutt>you're ignoring what hes saying :p
12:19<mdz_>vektor: I do not want to argue about quality :-)
12:19<mdz_>these recordings are 480x480
12:19<vektor>if it's just the colour then i bet it's from the multiple conversions.
12:20<-- Universehas quit ()
12:20<vektor>and the final RGB->Y'CbCr converter is probably doing some sort of tuning.
12:20<Chutt>dvds playback fine, using xv to do the same amount of scaling and conversion
12:20<mdz_>why would Xv convert it to RGB to scale it?
12:20<vektor>mdz: because it has to convert the whole X display
12:20<vektor>mdz: so the card has to convert to RGB first.
12:21<vektor>doing scaling in Y'CbCr is weird
12:21<mdz_>but it's scaling only that image...hmm
12:21<vektor>well, not that weird, but it's more complicated
12:21<vektor>like to avoid doing two conversions you'd have to do something special
12:21<vektor>i don't know, i'm just guessing.
12:21<whatsit>don't some video cards only ever output VCD resolution to the tv-out port?
12:21<mdz_>DVD video is Y'CbCr, no?
12:21<vektor>DVD video is Y'CbCr yes.
12:21<Chutt>mdz, right
12:21<vektor>hmm.
12:21<vektor>ok yeah, you got me.
12:21<Chutt>so it'd get the same amount of scaling and converting
12:22<Chutt>so it's not that :p
12:22<mdz_>I need to hook up a CRT to this box
12:22<mdz_>and see what it looks like
12:22<mdz_>I am not looking forward to the amount of hardware-lugging that will require, though
12:22<Chutt>mdz, other thing to do would be to play around with the britness/contrast settings of the card
12:22<Chutt>the tuner card, that is
12:22<mdz_>Chutt: I've been meaning to do that, but whenever I have a chance to look at it, mythtv is capturing something :-)
12:22<Chutt>heh
12:23<vektor>mdz: i thought you said that you had a CRT on that box and it looked better??
12:23<Chutt>if v4l supported multiple opens, you could do it while it was recording
12:23<mdz_>vektor: sorry, the CRT is on a different box
12:23<Chutt>too bad it doesn't =)
12:23<vektor>mdz: well then that's pretty different...
12:23<mdz_>vektor: I used to have a CRT on this box while I was assembling it, and played back a DVD on it
12:23<mdz_>vektor: but I haven't been able to compare the same source on that CRT and on the TV
12:23<vektor>mdz: so you haven't played a DVD out to TV on that box?
12:23<vektor>or have you?
12:23<mdz_>yes I have
12:23<mdz_>and it looks reasonable
12:24<vektor>and it looked fine?
12:24<mdz_>correct
12:24<vektor>and this looks even worse?
12:24<mdz_>I think the brightness may be too high on the capture card or something
12:24<mdz_>the kind of things I see are lots of motion in dark areas
12:25<vektor>but you said you played the same file on a CRT and it looked fine?
12:25<mdz_>vektor: well, it looks better
12:25<mdz_>vektor: it looks about like I would expect 480x480 mpeg-4 to look
12:25<mdz_>from an analog TV source
12:25<vektor>probably because the brightness is lower on your CRT
12:25<mdz_>I messed with the brightness on my CRT and couldn't get it to look quite the same
12:25<vektor>what about the overlay brightness?
12:26<mdz_>hmm...dunno how to tweak that
12:26<vektor>you can set the brightness/contrast of your overlay settings independently
12:26<vektor>get xvattr from http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~dvd/
12:26<vektor>on their downloads page
12:26<mdz_>I have also overlayed video from a composite source using avview, and that looks good
12:26<vektor>also inside xine you can change the overlay brightness/contrast.
12:26<vektor>on what machine?
12:26<vektor>avview on the machine with TV out?
12:26<mdz_>same machine
12:27<vektor>which one, you've got me confused.
12:27<mdz_>TV input to the ATI Card to TV output on the ATI card
12:27<vektor>ah ok
12:27<Chutt>which is why i've been saying its the tuner card settings =)
12:27<mdz_>is there a command-line utility that can change those?
12:27<vektor>Chutt: kinda sounds like it :)
12:27<Chutt>v4lctl can, i believe
12:27<vektor>mdz: in tvtime you can use the OSD :)
12:27<mdz_>vektor: I am at work and the box is at hoem
12:27<mdz_>home
12:27<Chutt>i need to add some stuff to mythtv to do those mods
12:28<vektor>jeez it sucks to be you mdz :)
12:28<mdz_>Chutt: yes it can, thanks
12:28<vektor>i've never heard of v4lctl
12:28-!-TechJosh [~root@ip68-7-170-10.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #mythtv
12:28<vektor>sounds scary
12:28<mdz_>av@lime:~$ v4lctl -c /dev/video0 show
12:28<mdz_>input: (null)
12:28<mdz_>mute: off
12:28<mdz_>audio mode: stereo
12:28<mdz_>volume: 65535
12:28<mdz_>norm: NTSC
12:28<mdz_>bright: 32768
12:28<mdz_>hue: 32768
12:28<mdz_>color: 32512
12:28<mdz_>contrast: 27648
12:29<mdz_>32768 sounds like 50%
12:29<vektor>it is.
12:29<vektor>v4l is silly that way :)
12:29<mdz_>does it actually have that kind of granularity? or is it silly?
12:29<vektor>it's silly.
12:29<mdz_>if I set it to 32767, does it snap it to 32768?
12:29<vektor>i don't know but it's easy to find out.
12:29<mdz_>it is
12:30<mdz_>I'll try 16384 or so
12:30<vektor>the range for the contrast on the bttv cards is 0-511.
12:30<mdz_>so it probably just ignores the lower bits
12:30<vektor>and the default i use is 207/511
12:30<vektor>which is the DScaler default for NTSC.
12:31<mdz_>slightly lower than 50% then
12:31<mdz_>about 40%
12:31<vektor>one thing that I don't understand is that the bttv has separate controls for sat in the u axis and sat in the y axis, but the v4l api only exposes something called 'colour'.
12:31<mdz_>what's the 'u' axis?
12:31<vektor>As in YUV.
12:31<vektor>2-dimensional colour and 1-dimension brightness.
12:31<mdz_>ah, ok
12:31<vektor>so your two colour axis are U and V.
12:32<mdz_>right
12:32<vektor>when sampled digitally you usually represent them as C_B and C_R.
12:32<vektor>which implies 16-240 8-bit.
12:32<mdz_>16-240?
12:32<vektor>Which is why I say Y'CbCr instead of YUV :)
12:32<mdz_>vektor: that's a lot more typing
12:32<vektor>yeah as in you only use the values 16-240 centered at 128
12:32<vektor>and anything below/above is for head/footroom.
12:32<mdz_>vektor: is the ' in Y'CbCr a prime, or is it just there as punctuation?
12:32<vektor>it's a prime.
12:33<vektor>since there's another colourspace called XYZ
12:33<vektor>and the Y isn't the same.
12:33<vektor>this is a special Y :)
12:33<mdz_>great
12:33<vektor>it's non-linear luminance.
12:33<vektor>rather than traditional luminance.
12:33<mdz_>why does it only use the values 16-240?
12:33<vektor>because you want some headroom and footroom
12:33<mdz_>that is, why do you need head/footroom?
12:33<vektor>well because if you get a malformed signal you can hopefully correct it
12:34<vektor>rather than losing information
12:34<vektor>it's a standard interchange format for like digital signals
12:34<vektor>so you could be getting a digital signal from a little converter box
12:34<mdz_>so it's just the sampling that quantizes to those values?
12:34<vektor>yes.
12:34<mdz_>and it would be valid to have Y'CbCr which had larger or smaller values?
12:34<mdz_>if you had postprocessed it, for example
12:34<vektor>the sampling says that nominal white should be 235,128,128
12:34<vektor>so you calibrate your equipment such that that is it.
12:35<vektor>it would be 'valid' as in 'represents a superwhite or superblack or superblue' or something.
12:35<vektor>like those values are allowed to occur
12:35<mdz_>right
12:35<vektor>but you're supposed to calibrate your equipment such that it comes out that white input is 235,128,128 output.
12:35<vektor>like so when you're building a digital tester it can tell you when it sees a signal that's too bright.
12:35<mdz_>so it's not "these are the only legal values" but "these are the values that a normal input signal should map to"
12:35<vektor>yes.
12:35<vektor>and the bttv chip is broken.
12:36<vektor>well the bt878 chip
12:36<vektor>it uses 16-253 instead of 16-235
12:36<vektor>at first i thought it was a typo in the spec
12:36<vektor>but no, it's a typo _everywhere_.
12:36<mdz_>so when I get home, hopefully my recordings will look different
12:36<vektor>they use 2-253 for chroma channels too.
12:36<vektor>so in tvtime i do a big correction map for all of that.
12:36<vektor>and map 2-253 back to 16-240 and 16-253 back to 16-235.
12:36<TechJosh>question: how do you attach a tuning source to a card input? MythTV isn't letting me change channels and syas that my tuning source (COX) is defined but not attached to a cardinput
12:37<Chutt>in the setup program
12:37<Chutt>the last set of questions
12:37<mdz_>Chutt: speaking of attaching tuning sources, I noticed there was a column in the database for that...is that unused at this point?
12:37<TechJosh>ok, i think i only built mythtv
12:37<mdz_>(externalcommand, I mean)
12:37<Chutt>for the external commands?
12:37<Chutt>yeah
12:38<Chutt>it'll be used soon
12:38<mdz_>man, I need an IR device
12:38<Chutt>the current stuff's limited to one external device
12:38<mdz_>I might have to put my Zaurus on the coffee table to control the tuner
12:38<Chutt>using the db entries'll let you use N external devices
12:38<Chutt>heh
12:38<Chutt>i've thought about doing a remote control app
12:38<vektor>i want an IR device.
12:38<vektor>they sound like so much fun.
12:39<Chutt>talk over the network with mythtv
12:39<mdz_>the zaurus would be perfect, with the touch screen and all
12:39<mdz_>vektor: apparently, everyone builds them
12:39<mdz_>vektor: I cannot find one for sale
12:39<vektor>mdz: yeah i'm not down with building shit.
12:39<Chutt>serial ir transmitters are $$
12:40<vektor>transmitters?
12:40<vektor>i'm talking about receivrs :)
12:40<TechJosh>cd ..
12:40<vektor>rm *
12:40<TechJosh>dang, wrong window
12:40<whatsit>lirc is suppose to be good
12:40<mdz_>Chutt: why are they so expensive?
12:40<mdz_>Chutt: people build them for like $10
12:40<Chutt>because it's a niche market
12:40<mdz_>whatsit: lirc is software
12:40<vektor>mdz: there's apparently this really cool remote control you can buy from ATI
12:40<mdz_>vektor: I own it :-)
12:40<vektor>mdz: is it cool?
12:40<mdz_>vektor: came with the card
12:40<mdz_>vektor: it's RF
12:40<vektor>should i buy one?
12:41<mdz_>vektor: it's great
12:41<mdz_>vektor: dunno how much they sell it for by itself
12:41<whatsit>mdz_: yeah... sorry... they have homebrew instructions on the site though
12:41<vektor>but then it can't control my dvd player, right?
12:41<vektor>they do sell it but it's $$.
12:41<mdz_>vektor: right
12:41<vektor>i just want an IR receiver so I can buy a super-remote.
12:41<Chutt>it's cheap compared to simple ir transmitters =)
12:41<mdz_>vektor: I might pay USD$25 or so for it
12:41<vektor>mdz: apparently the ATI thing is like USD $50 or so.
12:42<mdz_>vektor: that's crazy
12:42<mdz_>vektor: the card with the remote included was like $130
12:42<vektor>oh
12:42<vektor>maybe i'll buy a card :)
12:42<Chutt>tells you how much the card cost em
12:42<vektor>mdz: think radio shack sells ir receivers?
12:42<mdz_>vektor: sure
12:42<vektor>i bet i can find a radio shack around here...
12:42<mdz_>vektor: the kind that you solder
12:43<vektor>noooo....
12:43<mdz_>vektor: not the kind with RS-232 already on it
12:43<vektor>solder hurts my fingers
12:43<Chutt>bah
12:43<vektor>i have a cuecat
12:43<Chutt>heh
12:43<vektor>maybe i can make barcodes for channels
12:43<vektor>so i can swipe the 'CNN' barcode
12:43<mdz_>hah
12:43<vektor>man that would suck ass :)
12:43<mdz_>you could mount the barcode reader on a line printer
12:44<vektor>ok i think i need to purchase jolt or something
12:44<vektor>ahahah
12:44<mdz_>and have the computer print a barcode
12:44<mdz_>I found this recently
12:44<mdz_>http://www.nirvis.com/slinke_specs.htm
12:44<mdz_>but I don't know if LIRC works with it
12:45<vektor>ordering... but i want it now!
12:45<Chutt>it's only $250
12:45<mdz_>I want something I can plug into a USB port and forget about
12:45<mdz_>I do not want to build anything
12:45<vektor>usb would kick somuchass
12:45<mdz_>Chutt: holy shit, you're right
12:45<vektor>i want to save $$ for one of these: http://www.sdisilk.com/
12:45<vektor>so i can't be spending too much on the mote
12:45<Chutt>niche market, stuff's expensive
12:45<Chutt>they probably hand make everything
12:45<mdz_>ntohutnoeahusntaoehusoae
12:45<TechJosh>ATI has a usb remote for sale
12:46<mdz_>TechJosh: it's RF
12:46<Chutt>the slinke looks like a standard project box with some silkscreening on it
12:46<mdz_>I want an IR transmitter
12:46<Chutt>i bet they do hand-make each and every one
12:46<vektor>i think i'll 'Ask the Shack'
12:46<mdz_>I want a thing that blinks a little IR diode when I tell it to
12:46<mdz_>vektor: Radio "we don't carry that -- no, it's over there on your shelf" Shack?
12:47<mdz_>how hard can this be?
12:47<vektor>yeah, that's the one!
12:47<mdz_>maybe I can get some LIRC type to build me one for a 100% markup
12:47<mdz_>then I could save $230
12:47<Chutt>heh
12:47<vektor>http://www.mcglen.com/McGlenWeb/showProdInfo.asp?SSID=2139797578E4393X664&u=none&pc=none&ITEMID=ZIN114449
12:48<mdz_>vektor: that looks perfect
12:48<mdz_>vektor: oh, it's a receiver
12:48<mdz_>vektor: I hate you
12:48<vektor>well, that's what i want! :)
12:48<mdz_>I want a transmitter
12:48<vektor>yeah i do too
12:48<vektor>i want both though
12:48<vektor>this gets me half way though :)
12:49<mdz_>my motherboard has an IrDA connector
12:49<mdz_>could that be made to work?
12:49<vektor>yeah, about 3 feet worth
12:49<mdz_>http://www.lirc.org/irda.html
12:49<mdz_>vektor: that's all I need
12:49<mdz_>the box is right next to the cable tuner
12:49<mdz_>I wonder where I could get the dongle
12:50<mdz_>all I need is something like that little blaster that comes with TiVos
12:50<mdz_>it probably costs about 10 cents to make
12:50<Chutt>yup
12:51<Chutt>the controller chip's a little more than that, but, yep
12:51-!-orangey [] has quit ["Client Exiting"]
12:51<vektor>alli need is some caffeine
12:51<mdz_>I should mess around with the IrDA on the zaurus and see if it can be made to control the thing
12:51<mdz_>then maybe I'll try to find a dongle
12:51<vektor>controller chip?
12:51<vektor>scarry...
12:52<vektor>ok time for caffeine.
12:53<Chutt>http://www.lirc.org/improved_transmitter.html
12:53<Chutt>i could probably build one out of parts i have right now, 'cept for the leds
12:55<Chutt>hm, no, i don't have the diodes
12:58-!-Antw73 [~ant@krynn.solace.mh.se] has joined #mythtv
12:58<Antw73>evening all
12:58<Antw73>who
12:59<Chutt>hi
13:00<Antw73>Heh, you doing a lot of CVS stuff?
13:00<Chutt>yeah
13:00<Chutt>everything's fixed aside from mythgame now
13:01-!-Universe [~Yeah@pwc2-hs-nk.bbnplanet.com] has joined #mythtv
13:01<Antw73>great, was broken in CVS a few minutes ago =) figured you were hacking flat out =)
13:02<Chutt>well
13:03<Chutt>stuff should've been fixed (aside from mythgame) for a few hours
13:03<Chutt>what's not compiling?
13:07<Antw73>just missing iostream in a couple of .h files to do with the new theme detection stuff, and it failed to build libmyth-0.7, haven't looked why yet
13:08<Chutt>blah
13:08<Chutt>gcc 3.2?
13:08<Antw73>you got it =)
13:09<Antw73>sorry for long answer, semi afk decorating house for halloween party this weekend
13:09<Chutt>ah
13:09<Chutt>no worries
13:10<Chutt>i'll just compile it with 3.2 myself
13:10<Chutt>won't be able to run it, but =)
13:10<Antw73>was themedmenu.h and channel.h missing iostream in MC module, haven't tried the others =)
13:11<Antw73>undefined ref to MythContext stuff is why it fails the lib build
13:11<Chutt>ah
13:11<Chutt>try deleting the old libs from /usr/local/lib/
13:11<Chutt>first
13:12<Antw73>oh, ok. easy nuff =)
13:13<Antw73>much better
13:14<Antw73>I noticed in the code that you started an export function
13:14<Chutt>export?
13:14<Chutt>oh, the video stuff?
13:15<Antw73>yer, last method in NuppleVideoPlayer
13:15<Chutt>it doesn't export, merely recompress
13:15<Antw73>yup, but that could be the same thing with a little nudging
13:15<Chutt>it'd have to know about another wrapper format
13:16<Antw73>mind if I have a look at it after the 0.7 release?
13:16<Chutt>course not
13:16<Antw73>just checkin =)
13:17<Antw73>ok, afk, GF is about to kill herself with a pumpkin knife =)
13:17<Chutt>it might be better to just update the .nuv loader in transcode, though
13:18<Antw73>might be, but I'd much rather change something thats easier to completly control, have you good connections with the transcode folk?
13:18<Chutt>nope
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13:19<Antw73>might be better to fix an import, but I'd guess its easier to code an export to a more widespread wrapping format like mpg or avi
13:19<Antw73>I've always liked nuv tho =) used it for one off recording before I found MythTV
13:20<Antw73>recoding from nuv to vcd was time consuming tho
13:20<Chutt>heh
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13:21<Chutt>cvs is fixed with respect to those iostream includes
13:21<Antw73>great, how much is there to do with mythgame?
13:21<Chutt>i haven't started it yet
13:21<Chutt>should only take half an hour or so
13:21<Chutt>but i'm doing Real Work at the moment
13:22<Universe>whats that?
13:22<Antw73>ok, don't feel any pressure =)
13:22<Universe>'real work'... strange word..
13:22<Universe>words
13:22<Antw73>heh, its what fills about 8 to 14 hours a day normally leaving zero space for something called a 'life'
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13:23<Universe>thats wrong odd one... 'life'...
13:23<Universe>heh..
13:23<Universe>err... meant... thats another odd one
13:23<Antw73>oops, afk, getting hassled to hang stuff up =)
13:34<vektor>mmm
13:34<vektor>Jolt...
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13:53<rcaskey>hey all
13:54<rcaskey>I was wonderring if anyone knows how to adjust the resolution of the linux framebuffer
13:54<rcaskey>iv yet to get X working but id like to get the framebuffer running at the right res itself
13:57<rcaskey>ls
13:57<rcaskey>doh :)
14:00<Chutt>sorry, i don't know
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14:18<mdz_>rcaskey: fbset
14:18<mdz_>rcaskey: unless you're talking about the VESA framebuffer, in which case you must set it at boot on the kernel command line
14:22<vektor>ahahaha
14:22<vektor>ok
14:22<vektor>go to tvtime.sf.net :)
14:22<vektor>taaz did a php thingy so it does a random tagline every time you view the page ;-)
14:22<Chutt>what, kinda like mythweb? :p
14:23<vektor>What's mythweb?
14:23<Chutt>the web interface to mythtv
14:23<Universe>its very nice!
14:23<vektor>sounds nifty :)
14:23<Chutt>http://mythtv.sourceforge.net/mc/mythweb.png
14:24<vektor>Chutt: dude that is sooo cool
14:24<Chutt>just another interface to the scheduler for now
14:24<Chutt>should be getting enhanced shortly =)
14:24<vektor>that's so awesome.
14:25<vektor>ok so, is all of that xmltv info in a database?
14:25<vektor>and that's how you get it?
14:25<Chutt>yup
14:25<vektor>so tvtime can use that database too, right? :)
14:25<Chutt>for displaying program info?
14:25<Chutt>of course
14:25<vektor>i soo need to get that mysql stuff set up here and get myth running.
14:26<vektor>this seems soo awesome.
14:26<vektor>and i know squat about databases
14:26<vektor>when i tried to install myth i was trying to figure out how to like add a user
14:26<vektor>took me forever and i still didn't have it right :)
14:26<Chutt>i didn't know anything about mysql before i started this
14:26<vektor>cool
14:27<vektor>so it isn't hard to learn?
14:27<Chutt>naw
14:27<vektor>ok awesome :)
14:27<vektor>that makes me feel better :)
14:27<mdz_>vektor: mysql or RDBMS in general?
14:27<vektor>uh, RDBMS in general
14:27<vektor>i have no idea what that even stands for
14:28<vektor>retarted data base moma suckers ?
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14:30<mdz_>vektor: relational database management system
14:30<mdz_>hmm, what happened to my other self?
14:30<mdz_>maybe my apartment burned down
14:30<mdz_>nope, I can still ping it
14:30<vektor>maybe freenode just sucks ass
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14:31<mdz_>mdz: hey there
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14:59<Chutt>it always amazes me about how much people are willing to babble on about on a mailing list when they have no idea what they're talking about
15:02<mdz_>for example, I know almost nothing about video, but I babble on about it all the time
15:02<Chutt>no, like the most recent post to mythtv-dev
15:03<Chutt>he's going on about how some scheduling thing would be impossible to do
15:03<Chutt>and i'm fairly sure i could do it in < 100 loc.
15:04<Chutt>and he basically says timeslot recordings that verify the title of the program are 'to much AI'
15:04<Chutt>which mythtv already does, easily
15:06<Universe>and tivo has been doing it for years
15:06<Chutt>yeah
15:06<Universe>or even reply tv
15:06<Chutt>like i said
15:06<Chutt>bbaling about something he's got no idea about =)
15:06<Universe>heh
15:10<Universe>I guess some people just don't think before talking
15:12<Universe>hmm... Chutt... is the search on mythweb suppose to be functional?
15:12<Chutt>i thought so
15:12<Chutt>it may have broke awhile ago with the database mods
15:13<mdz_>hehe...AI
15:13<Universe>well... it doesn't work for me
15:14<Chutt>Thor's promised a mythweb update in a few days, though
15:14<Universe>cool
15:14<Universe>can't wait
15:14<Chutt>same =)
15:15<mdz_>personally, my favourite mythtv UI is the "mysql CLI" one
15:15<Antw73>someone slap that man =)
15:15<mdz_>very handy for setting up recordings remotely
15:15<Chutt>heh
15:16<Chutt>bah, i should've just made the context local
15:16<Universe>the web interface is happy enough to do that
15:17<Universe>Chutt... you thinking about added a search for the rec program screen?
15:17<Antw73>hmmm... anyone getting segfault trying to read CD's into MythMusic? =)
15:17<Chutt>no
15:17<Chutt>send me a backtrace, please
15:17<Chutt>after compiling it for debugging, of course =)
15:17<Chutt>univers, which screen, in mythfrontend?
15:17<Universe>aye
15:18<Chutt>then i'd have to make a popup keyboard
15:18<Antw73>will do, last time I checked it was 200 \b characters in a string buffer passed to fprintf, died in vfprintf in glibc, caller was the cddb lookup
15:18<Universe>you would
15:19<Antw73>or even, a microphone and a viavoice connection =) <ducks<
15:19<Universe>lol
15:19<Chutt>heh
15:19<Universe>onscreen keyboard would work
15:19<Universe>like Tivo... *ducks*
15:19<Antw73>uh oh, 3rd watch back on, bbiaf =)
15:20<Universe>just record it Antw73... jeez...
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15:36<Chutt>mdz, you're doing live-tv over the network, right?
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15:45<mdz_>Chutt: yep
15:46<mdz_>Chutt: currentl 220kbit
15:46<Chutt>just wanted to make sure
15:46<mdz_>not that I use that feature much
15:47<mdz_>I used it when tuning, as a guideline for what I quality settings I could use and still support simultaneous playback/record
15:47<Chutt>it's transmitting the data both ways, right?
15:47<mdz_>yes
15:48<ssharma>does anyone here have digital cable/satellite working with mythtv?
15:48<mdz_>ssharma: you mean with an IR transmitter?
15:49<Chutt>someone on the mailing list does
15:49<Chutt>he's using a serial connection to his directv receiver, i believe
15:49<ssharma>yeah, with the IR transmitter thingy. I've got Dish Network and there's no serial connection.
15:49<Chutt>should be a similar setup
15:52<Antw73>I have digital cable working, why?
15:52<Chutt>mdz, is there anyplace where space != enter?
15:53<ssharma>Antw73: do you have the remote working too? The computer has an IR receiver and an IR transmitter right?
15:54<Antw73>: nope, using a serial line, sorry, just read the rest
15:54<Antw73>but I can't really see it being a lot diferent
15:54<Chutt>shouldn't be
15:55<Antw73>just an external command with the channel number as argument
15:55<ssharma>you're computer still has an IR receiver for the cable remote right? MythTV intercepts it and then passes on the right code to the cable box, correct?
15:55<Antw73>do you have your IR transmitter working?
15:55<mdz_>Chutt: yeah, on the selection for scheduled recordings
15:56<Antw73>ssharma: yup
15:56<mdz_>Chutt: if you move to one of the buttons to seelct the type of recording and press ok, it just looks at you
15:56<ssharma>I haven't tried anything yet. I want to make sure it will work before I start buying stuff.
15:56<mdz_>Chutt: it sounds like "Harondel J. Sibble" is having a problem similar to my quality issue
15:56<Antw73>ssharma: its a bit shaky to set up the first time, but it works
15:57<mdz_>Chutt: oh wait, no, I think in that case space/enter are equivalent
15:57<mdz_>Chutt: I'm thinking of the guidegrid
15:57<Chutt>ah
15:57<mdz_>Chutt: navigating to a program and then pressing ok does nothing
15:57<Antw73>ssharma: If I were you I'd try and get a little wrapper build that you can use to control the digital box before you invest in anything
15:57<Chutt>i just always use space
15:57<Chutt>never enter
15:57<Chutt>=)
15:57<mdz_>hmm
15:57<mdz_>but ok -> enter makes more sense in most programs
15:58<Chutt>right
15:58<Chutt>which is why i've been using it interchangeably
15:58<ssharma>Antw73: I have to buy a IR transmitter for that to work.
15:58<Chutt>or at least trying to
15:58<Antw73>ssharma: You'll want the docs for your cable box, so you know the protocol to send
15:58<mdz_>Antw73: are you using an IR transmitter?
15:58<mdz_>Antw73: bought or built?
15:59<Chutt>serial
15:59<Antw73>I am using a serial line just now, ssharma is going to need one, I'd probably buy a cheap port
16:00<Antw73>ssharma: do you have access to a laptop with IR built in? might be a plan to test things and get it sorted before you spend too much
16:00<ssharma>Well, there aren't any docs for my Dish Network receiver. Most likely, I'll just setup an IR receiver on my computer and then get all the codes for each button. then write a simple script to send those to the box via an IR transmitter.
16:00<ssharma>I was hoping someone did thi work already... :(
16:00<Antw73>ssharma: sounds like a plan
16:01<Chutt>there's info on lirc.org on how to build a transmitter
16:01<Antw73>ssharma: most of the work is done, its not a big difference
16:02<mdz_>ssharma: lirc has codes for many systems
16:02<mdz_>ssharma: more than likely your receiver is in there
16:04<ssharma>Chutt: I saw the plans on lirc.org, but I don't know anything about circuits... I'll probably buy one.
16:05<Chutt>good time to learn :)
16:05<Antw73>problem over here is not that its hard to build, its hard to get the parts cheaper than buying a prebuilt =(
16:10<mdz_>Antw73: if I could buy a prebuilt for twice the cost of parts, I would. where are you shopping?
16:10<Antw73>Sweden =( Its the shipping costs that screw me over
16:11<Antw73>Anything the least bit electronic and I have to order from Stockholm
16:15<TechJosh>hey chutt, i really like the programming guide
16:15<Chutt>thanks
16:16<TechJosh>would it be difficult to have the boxes scroll off instead of just redrawing them in the right place
16:17<TechJosh>i mean difficult for you, mighty supercoder
16:17<Chutt>if you wanted them to stay semi-transparent like they are now, yes
16:17<TechJosh>(caus i know i couldnt do it)
16:20<Antw73>Ok, to buy prebuilt: Tekram IR-Mate Seriel port $35, parts cost for simple seriel port: $17 inclusive, shipping $15
16:20<Antw73>so its a little cheaper to build, I's wrong =)
16:20<Chutt>heh
16:21<Antw73>what do Ir ports go for over there?
16:23<Chutt>no idea
17:14<Universe>I need more than 2 computers at home... Its just not enough for all my projects
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17:19<mdz_>I have too many computers
17:19<Chutt>i only have 6
17:19<mdz_>I unloaded two this month that had been powered off for about a year
17:20<mdz_>and put one other to good use elsewhere
17:20<mdz_>all P2-class machines with nothing better to do
17:20<Universe>wow...
17:21<mdz_>one of them I had tried to use for capture
17:21<mdz_>har har
17:22<Antw73>ok, time for bed at a reasonable hour tonight =) night all
17:22<Universe>hmm 5 PM?
17:22<Antw73>11.30pm =)
17:22<Universe>ahh
17:22<vektor>babble babble
17:23<vektor>sup yo?
17:23<Universe>hey vektor..
17:23<Antw73>quit
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17:24<vektor>oh jeez
17:24<vektor>i say hi and they all start running
17:25<TardisX>hi :-)
17:26<Chutt>i was busy writing a checkin message :p
17:31<vektor>o you like writing checkin messages?
17:31<vektor>or do you write like 'yo sup'
17:31<vektor>i love checkins like that
17:31<Chutt>i do real ones
17:31<vektor>cool.
17:31<vektor>i do half-assed checkin logs
17:31<Universe>just use 'Use at your own risk'
17:31<vektor>like 'fixed stupid bug'
17:32<Chutt>Update mythgame for the mythcontext stuff. Make the dialogs resize to full-screen properly. Fix the slider drawing in the screenshot view.
17:32<Chutt>was my last commit :p
17:33<vektor>funny, my last was:
17:33<vektor>Oops, fixed tvtime.c.
17:33<Universe>lol
17:33<vektor>and then before that:
17:33<vektor>Got rid of the full-frame string compositor.
17:33<vektor>which is better
17:33<vektor>but the one before _that_ was this one:
17:33<vektor>Nothing interesting updated.
17:33<vektor>which is pretty silly.
17:34<vektor>i think i'm going to have to start announcing tvtime.
17:52<Chutt>heh
18:00<whatsit>!list
18:00<whatsit>doh! wrong window... ;)
18:01<TardisX>I'm glad it's not just me that does that :-)
18:04<Universe>lol
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18:19<Universe>ok... whats good enough HD performance for mythtv?
18:22<Universe>/dev/hdb:
18:22<Universe> Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 1.41 seconds = 90.78 MB/sec
18:22<Universe> Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 2.77 seconds = 23.10 MB/sec
18:22<Universe>that good enough?
18:27<Universe>I was having some slowdowns with anything above 352x240 rez and it wasn't the CPU..
18:27<vektor>did you turn on dma?
18:27<Universe>as a matter of fact, I just did
18:27<Universe>but I am at work
18:28<Universe>so I can't change the settings on the box and test it from here
18:28<Chutt>my box does 365MB/sec and 40MB/sec respectively
18:28<Universe>hmm...
18:29<Universe>what hdparm settings are you using?
18:29<Chutt>just dma and 32-bit io on
18:30<Universe>recording and doing the test will probably not give me correct results, right?
18:30<Chutt>right
18:31<Universe>ok... those results were with recording going on... I will rerun it later
18:31<vektor>well, i just found out that the tarball of tvtime i posted this morning doesn't work at all.
18:31<vektor>so, what should i do, post a new one right away, or wait until i have more 'features' in a new release?
18:33<Universe>reverting back isn't an option?
18:33<mdz_>having the current stuff broken is bad press
18:33<vektor>ok i'll see if i can nuke the release after i post a new one.
18:38<vektor>done.
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19:27<TechJosh>pointless question: do you think you can use two serial ATA converters and a serial ATA cable to replace a regular IDE calbe?
19:27<TechJosh>cable
19:29<Universe>ok... you are talking about the 80wire, 40pin cable?
19:29<TechJosh>yeah
19:29<Universe>you dont need a converter
19:29<TechJosh>i know
19:29<Universe>you can use it as a regular IDE cable
19:29<TechJosh>but CAN you
19:29<Universe>you can
19:29<Universe>I have done it
19:30<TechJosh>1.5 meters and minimal air resistance
19:30<Universe>it just uses 2 wires per pin
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20:01<Universe>hmm... done recording and ran the test again..
20:01<Universe>/dev/hdb:
20:01<Universe> Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 0.83 seconds =154.22 MB/sec
20:01<Universe> Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 2.24 seconds = 28.57 MB/sec
20:03<vektor> Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 0.86 seconds =148.84 MB/sec
20:03<vektor> Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 1.75 seconds = 36.57 MB/sec
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20:03<Universe>should mine be 'good enough'
20:04<vektor>I have no idea.
20:04<Universe>heh
20:04<vektor>Tuscany: I have some interesting results re: TV output quality.
20:04<Tuscany>sounds good
20:04<vektor>I had tvtime output to my TV using the G400 TV output code in DirectFB.
20:04<vektor>gives me an interlaced framebuffer with a field interrupt.
20:05<vektor>I can see absolutely no difference between the TV output version of the input signal, and the TV viewing the signal straight
20:05<vektor>well ok, small difference, my signal is shifted over to the left a bit :)
20:06<vektor>but i could easily tune the brightness/contrast/colour settings to match the same signal on the TV.
20:06<vektor>like i just kept flipping between video1 and tv on my tv to compare.
20:06<vektor>so, this tells me that alot of the 'crap' about the XVideo version is because the overlay sucks ass on my card.
20:06<vektor>like, it seems to blur the picture a bit, and also gives poor colour resolution (since my CRT is so much dimmer than my TV)
20:07<vektor>but i've confirmed for myself at least that the raw Y'CbCr images i get from the capture card are good.
20:07<vektor>sound reasonable?
20:10<Tuscany>yep
20:10<Tuscany>hey, how do you like the 400? i've heard linux drivers are not completey there
20:10<vektor>Well.....
20:10<vektor>For TV out they (finally) are: http://vektor.theorem.ca/graphics/tvout/
20:10<vektor>But it took forevr.
20:11<Tuscany>i'm trying to use my ATI radeon but for some reason the mythtv output looks interlaced..whereas my Geforce Mx400 looks great
20:11<Tuscany>i know ati and matrox have always excelled at 2d image quality (which is important when you're displaying on an hdtv projector)
20:14<vektor>Well, are you deinterlacing at all?
20:14<vektor>Your geforce Mx400 is probably doing some blurring to avoid interlacing artifacts
20:16<Tuscany>ahh...well, I'm using a bttv card for the video input and the ATI radeon as the myth output dev (using xv)
20:16<Tuscany>it was my impression myth has builtin deinterlacing
20:17<Tuscany>when i use mplayer to play a dvd it shows up fine though. it only occurs with myth
20:17<vektor>well, you don't want to deinterlace when outputting to a TV, right? :)
20:18<Tuscany>no, but I'm outputing to an HDTV at 960x540 PROGRESSIVE
20:18<vektor>what refresh rate?
20:18<vektor>'progressive' isn't always 'better' dude :)
20:19<vektor>my point is that if you're playing back something that shows interlaced artifacts, then you don't want to deinterlace that when going back to a TV, right?
20:19<Tuscany>well, I agree with you if we're talking about 1080i.
20:19<vektor>i'm asking what refresh rate your PROGRESSIVE display is :)
20:20<Tuscany>horizontal sync is at 33.8, vert sync at 60
20:20<vektor>wow, 60hz progressive?
20:20<vektor>that's cool.
20:20<vektor>kinda sucks for deinterlacing though :)
20:21<vektor>does the output from tvtime 'bounce' a bit?
20:21<vektor>or does it look ok?
20:21<Tuscany>bounce? not that i notice....
20:21<Tuscany>i just tried tvtime with my ATI and don't notice the issues i mentioned with myth
20:21<vektor>so, what's the 'issue' look like?
20:22<vektor>like, what do you mean by looking interlaced?
20:22<Tuscany>how do I grab a screen snapshot?
20:23<vektor>xwd ?
20:23<Tuscany>maybe it's not interlaced. for example, when you see the a font on screen they're the "stair stepping" affect on the diganol lines
20:23<vektor>sounds like aliasing :)
20:24<Tuscany>yeah....where the Nvidia has anti-alias enabled....i don't see this issue with this card
20:24<vektor>By anti-alias they mean blurr :)
20:25<Tuscany>hehe
20:25<vektor>i'd love to see a screen capture though
20:26<vektor>import should be able to capture xvideo too
20:26<vektor>with the -descend option
20:26<vektor>i think anyway
20:26<vektor>depends
20:28<Tuscany>d'oh! it didn't grab the tv background...is it because xwd won't capture the overlay?
20:28<vektor>damn, except it doesn't work here :)
20:28<vektor>well that's what i was talking about
20:28<vektor>i'm not sure if it's possible to capture the overlay data too
20:28<vektor>depends on the card i think
20:28<vektor>hrm
20:28<vektor>there must be some way
20:28<vektor>i mean, i've seen people do it
20:28<vektor>but i think it's a bit driver dependent
20:30<vektor>in tvtime you can screenshot the app to png using the 's' command :)
20:32<vektor>yeah i don't think there's a way to capture the overlay output :(
20:38-!-karjala [~karjala@ppp10-11.ath.forthnet.gr] has joined #mythtv
20:38<karjala>Hi
20:39<karjala>May I ask something small & simple?
20:41<Universe>you can ask... not sure if I'll have the answer
20:42<karjala>When using MythTV for TV recording, will there be any advantage in using an expensive ATI All-in-wonder instead of a cheap Hauppage WinTV Go?
20:42<karjala>I'm considering buying one of the two.
20:42<Universe>well
20:43<Universe>you have to look at the drivers and if they are supported with MythTV
20:43<Universe>as far as I know... ATI AIW cards aren't
20:43<Chutt>the AIW won't let you record and play back at the same time
20:44<karjala>Chutt: You mean, to be able to watch what I'm recording right now? or...
20:44<Universe>and capture drivers for the Voodoo 3500 do not exist.. :-(
20:44<Chutt>you won't be able to record and play back at the same time
20:44<karjala>Universe: I'm convinced. I'll buy a cheap wintv.
20:44<Chutt>using the AIW
20:44<Universe>karjala.. thats what i am using... a cheapo wintv
20:45<Universe>but they do have nice ones too
20:45<karjala>Universe: How much nicer? A wintv with radio. Is the remote really useful?
20:45<karjala>Chutt: thx.
20:46<Universe>the remote works, I think... thats the card Chutt has.
20:46<karjala>ok
20:47<TechJosh>the wintv cards only have mono audio
20:47<Universe>all wintv cards?
20:47<karjala>TechJosh: even when they're recording FM radio you mean?
20:47<TechJosh>except for the hdtv cards
20:48<TechJosh>and the wintv-radio
20:48<karjala>the cards "wintv-go-fm", "wintv-radio" and "wintv-theatre" have stereo (according to the Hauppage website)
20:48<karjala>stereo FM
20:49<karjala>but wintv-radio & wintv-theatre have dbx-stereo also, whatever that means.
20:49<TechJosh>Model 191 WinTV-Go-FM with mono audio and FM radio
20:51<TardisX>coming in a bit late here...
20:51<karjala>TechJosh: but on http://www.hauppauge.com/html/products.htm#pci it says FM stereo.
20:51<TardisX>but I bought a lifeview flyvideo 3000
20:52<TechJosh>http://www.hauppauge.com/html/wc_data.htm
20:52<TardisX>and from what I can tell, it's pretty cool
20:52<TardisX>stereo + FM radio
20:52<TardisX>needs a kernel patch to make it work though
20:52<karjala>TardisX: I had a lifeview, and it kept crashing my windows 2000...
20:52<TardisX>and I don't think there is any support yet for the remote
20:52<karjala>TardisX: I had IRQ problems with some other card.
20:53<TardisX>karjala: the only problem I have with it is it occasionally stops working, have to reboot. probably driver problem. Maybe.
20:53<TardisX>occasionally == 4-5 days
20:53<TardisX>http://www.bytesex.org
20:53<karjala>TardisX: does it happen on linux as well?
20:53<TardisX>that's what I meant... I don't have windows
20:53<karjala>oh
20:54<TechJosh>this is better: http://www.hauppauge.com/html/chart.htm
20:54<TardisX>what price range is the wintv cards in?
20:54<TardisX>I couldn't find them here in Australia
20:55<TechJosh>~$50 - 300USD
20:55<TardisX>My flyvideo was only $100 AUS so I was pretty happy with it
20:56<TardisX>$100 australian dollars is about 39cents US :-)
20:56<TardisX>antenna/svideo/composite in
20:57<karjala>$39?
20:57<karjala>ok
20:57<TardisX>haha no that was a joke :-)
20:57<TardisX>rpobably about $65
21:09<karjala>Does MythTV record FM radio?
21:10<karjala>It's not so necessary however. I can plug a cheap tuner to my sound card and record it from there.
21:10<Universe>in its current state, no
21:10<Universe>if you want it... I am sure Chutt will accept code that does that.
21:10<karjala>Hurray. I'm buying a TV tuner tomorrow already.
21:12<karjala>(Talking to myself. Sorry)
21:13<Chutt>people've been making noise about writing radio stuff
21:14<Universe>I would like a radio-tivo for my car...
21:14<Universe>just the rewind/fastforward live part
21:15<Universe>someones they say something and Im like, what did they just say..
21:29<mdz>is it just me, or is zap2it dead?
21:29<mdz>consistently for the past day or so?
21:29<TechJosh>yesterday i was getting a 500 internal server error
21:29<mdz>I have not been able to get listings since monday
21:29<mdz>a complete day's worth anyway
21:30<TechJosh>it worked for me this morning though
21:44<karjala>'night ppl
21:44<-- karjalahas quit ()
21:57<-- Universehas quit ()
22:13-!-Soopaman [Soopaman@h24-66-52-13.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #mythtv
22:20<Soopaman>http://acetik85.free.fr/bushie.jpg heheheheh.. funny americans and your fearless leader
22:23<TardisX>that is funny
22:25<mdz>it is still failing for me right now as I speak
22:25<mdz>dammit
22:27-!-Universe [~uni@6532175hfc29.tampabay.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
22:28<Chutt>mdz, someone on the xmltv list said things worked better if they modified the script to use tvlistings.zap2it.com instead of tvlistings2
22:28<mdz>vektor: are ou around?
22:29<mdz>Chutt: hmm, I'll try that
22:29<Chutt>i've had similar problems
22:29<mdz>Chutt: recently, or in general?
22:29<Chutt>recently
22:29<mdz>I hope they don't implode
22:29<Chutt>heh
22:31<vektor>mdz: SUP f00?!
22:32<mdz>vektor: I'm trying tvtime
22:32<vektor>W00p!
22:32<vektor>you rock my world
22:32<vektor>i'm preparing a talk i'm giving tomorrow on compositing issues in digital video :(
22:32<vektor>i'm totally not ready for it either
22:32<mdz>how do I switch between the deinterlacing algorithms?
22:33<vektor>use the 't' command.
22:33<mdz>please don't say I hit some key htat isn't on my remote control
22:33<mdz>I hate no 't'
22:33<vektor>oh.
22:33<mdz>have
22:33<vektor>want me to fix that?
22:33<mdz>I guess I'll map one
22:33<vektor>i'm sorry i have no idea how remotes work
22:33<mdz>dunno what the best thing would be to do
22:33<vektor>well you can edit all the keys
22:33<vektor>in your .tvtimerc
22:33<vektor>see docs/default.tvtimerc
22:33<mdz>the best UIs for remotes are menus which can be navigated with arrows and OK
22:33<vektor>it's really simple too
22:33<mdz>(arrows and enter)
22:34<vektor>ah, i know
22:34<vektor>we're doing the menu system
22:34<vektor>it's not done yet though
22:34<vektor>we can draw shapes and text and png graphics currently :)
22:34<mdz>I'll just make my 'c' a 't' temporarily
22:34<vektor>and we have a menu mode where keystrokes mean different things
22:34<vektor>oh no
22:34<vektor>'c' is the key for luma correction :)
22:34<vektor>you might want to play with that if you have a bttv capture card :)
22:34-!-rcaskey [~rcaskey@adsl-156-90-88.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #mythtv
22:34<mdz>crap
22:35<vektor>since it 'theoretically' makes things look better.
22:35<vektor>i haven't hooked it up to my oscilloscope yet
22:35<vektor>for that objective test, yo! :)
22:35<mdz>what's the module parameter to set the number of buffers for bttv?
22:35<vektor>modprobe bttv gbuffers=4
22:35<vektor>i hacked my bttv driver so i can get rid of macrovision though
22:35<mdz>ok, that's better
22:35<vektor>and some other stuff
22:36<vektor>modprobe bttv gbuffers=4 bdelay=0x69 lumafilter=0 chroma_adc=1 yadda yadda
22:36<vektor>;-)
22:36<rcaskey>hey, I was wondering if anyone has heard about MythGame's progress recently?
22:37<mdz>so which one is supposed to make me say "wow"?
22:37<mdz>or none of them because of my TV output card? :-)
22:37<mdz>man, I need to figure out what's up with my colors
22:37<rcaskey>whats the cheapest decent HDTV in card?
22:38<vektor>mdz: what sort of performance are you getting?
22:38<vektor>rcaskey: what apps can process HDTV in realtime?? ;-)
22:38<vektor>rcaskey: or do you mean like DVB content?
22:39<vektor>rcaskey: like MPEG-2 transport stream stuff?
22:39<rcaskey>vektor: whatever it takes to get a higher res than I currently get on my analog cable :)
22:39<mdz>vektor: I can't really say
22:40* rcaskeyis still a cluebie, and is reading up, but still kinda lost
22:40<mdz>because my TV and my computer are in different rooms
22:40<mdz>I can only check the CPU usage in this room
22:40<mdz>and I can only see which algorithm it is using in the other room
22:40<vektor>rcs: and do you get HDTV content brodcasted to you?
22:40<mdz>looks like about 20%
22:40-!-Soopaman [] has quit ["Peace & Protection 4.06"]
22:40<rcaskey>yeah
22:40<mdz>for greedy 2-frame
22:41<vektor>mdz: if you hit 'd' i print some stats to stderr.
22:41<vektor>mdz: i'd like to see them
22:41<vektor>if it's easy
22:41<rcaskey>yeah, iv been thinking about getting a dish too
22:41<vektor>if not, forget it.
22:41<mdz>hmm, looks pretty constant whatever I do
22:41<mdz>vektor: damn you! I mapped 'd' to 't'
22:41<vektor>mdz: ahahaha
22:41<vektor>sorry :)
22:42<vektor>unfortunately, tvtime has alot of keys.
22:42<TechJosh>vektor: did you actually disable macrovision or just disable the automatic gain control?
22:43<mdz>I need to find out what is wrong with my colors
22:43<mdz>it is especially noticeable when there is awhite background
22:43<mdz>it washes everything out
22:43<vektor>TechJosh: i change the BDELAY register which affects the burst delay which removes the purple lines you see from macrovision, allowing me to get great quality form my hardware DVD player.
22:44<vektor>mdz: that happens here too.
22:44<vektor>mine totally looks washed out.
22:44<vektor>and i can't figure it out.
22:44<vektor>on my TV the same content doesn't look so washed out
22:44<vektor>and based on my tests i'm pretty convinced i'm getting the same signal.
22:44<vektor>i think it's because TVs are brighter
22:45<mdz>my colors look washed out on the TV
22:45<mdz>oh
22:45<vektor>so it doesn't look washed, just 'really bright'.
22:45<mdz>hmm
22:45<mdz>mine looks both overbright and washed out
22:45<TechJosh>no, i use dscaler in windows and it doesnt look like it does in tvtime
22:46<TechJosh>I looked at my color settings in dscaler and they were far from the middle of the road that they are set to in tvtime
22:46<TechJosh>and those are the defaults
22:46<mdz>vektor: is there any way to try to correct for this?
22:46<vektor>mdz: i hope so.
22:47<vektor>TechJosh: really? i'm curious about your dscaler settings, can you send them to me?
22:47<vektor>i'm using the default dscaler settings in tvtime.
22:47<TechJosh>vektor: okie
22:47<vektor>i'd appreciate it
22:48<vektor>mdz: first, you can try playing with your v4l settings. use the F1-F8 keys in tvtime :)
22:48<vektor>F3/F4 is brightness, F5/F6 is contrast.
22:49<TechJosh>[BT8781_-1_17] Brightness=20 Contrast=207 Hue=0 Saturation=236 SaturationU=254 SaturationV=219 Overscan=6 BDelay=92
22:49<mdz>if I crank down the brightness on the TV, it looks better
22:49<mdz>but then normal TV will be too dark
22:49<TechJosh>vektor: that whatcha want?
22:49<vektor>TechJosh: ok, those aren't much different than mine.
22:49<vektor>in fact i think they're the same.
22:50<TechJosh>well then never mind
22:50<TechJosh>;-)
22:50<vektor>mdz: then crank down the brightness on the V4L input
22:50<vektor>TechJosh: justasec though let me check
22:50<TechJosh>heres my other bttv settings
22:50<TechJosh>[BT8781] BtAgcDisable=0 BtCrush=1 BtEvenChromaAGC=1 BtOddChromaAGC=1 BtEvenLumaPeak=0 BtOddLumaPeak=0 BtFullLumaRange=0 BtEvenLumaDec=0 BtOddLumaDec=0 BtEvenComb=1 BtOddComb=1 BtColorBars=0 BtGammaCorrection=0 BtCoring=0 BtHorFilter=0 BtVertFilter=0 BtColorKill=0 BtWhiteCrushUp=207 BtWhiteCrushDown=127 PixelWidth=720 CustomPixelWidth=750 VideoSource=0 VideoFormat=17 HDelay=0 VDelay=0 ReversePolarity=0 CardType=38 TunerType=6 AudioSource1=0 Audio
22:51<vektor>TechJosh: the settings are identical....
22:51<vektor>i wish the bttv driver in linux gave me access to all of the settings myself though
22:51<vektor>some of those i can't set myself, i'd have to edit the driver.
22:51<vektor>very annoying.
22:52<vektor>like the brightness is from -127 to 128, so that's why 20 is near the middle in tvtime.
22:52<vektor>also, contrast is from 0-511, again why it's near the middle in tvtime.
22:52<TechJosh>what about the latest driver? 9.X
22:52<vektor>hue is also from -something to +something, so the 0 is in the middle.
22:52<mdz>vektor: arggh
22:52<vektor>mdz: aarggh what?
22:52<mdz>vektor: tvtime seems to reset my v4l settings when it starts
22:52<vektor>yes, yes it does.
22:52<vektor>sorry.
22:52<mdz>vektor: that is evil
22:52<vektor>well... yeah you're right. i was mostly using that to test.
22:53<vektor>i'll take that out.
22:53<vektor>the point was that i'd reset it to the dscaler defaults on startup
22:53<mdz>what are the default key bindings to adjust it?
22:53<vektor>and then you'd have your own settings elsewhere.
22:53<vektor>F3/F4 is brightness, F5/F6 is contrast
22:53<mdz>onthutnhsnoen
22:53<TechJosh>what about saturation?
22:54<TechJosh>any keys for that?
22:54<vektor>yeah F7/F8.
22:55<vektor>in dscaler you get two degrees of saturation, but in V4L all i get is 'colour' which is some mix of the two.
22:55<vektor>annoying as all fuck.
22:55<vektor>btw, do you guys like how the slogan at tvtime.sf.net changes every time you refresh?
22:55<vektor>if you guys have any new slogans for me, let me know! :)
22:56<TechJosh>yeah, but the goldfish one needs to be changed to "the WHOLESOME snack that smiles back until you bite their heads off..."
22:56<vektor>it does say thatnow.
22:57<TechJosh>ok
22:58<mdz>vektor: so now that I've interactively adjusted the brightness so that it looks decent
22:58<TechJosh>is there any "toggle on top" key?
22:58<mdz>vektor: how do I find out what it's set to?
22:58<mdz>hmm, maybe it doesn't reset when I exit
22:58<mdz>it sure does
22:58<vektor>what's less-than-equal in LaTeX ?
22:59<vektor>mdz: uh... yeah can you file a bug report on this on tvtiume.sf.net ?
22:59<vektor>mdz: i keep meaning to fix that but i keep forgetting
22:59<vektor>i'd really really really appreciate some bugreports
23:00<mdz>vektor: I really really hate the sourceforge bug tracker
23:00<vektor>mdz: pleeeeeeeze?
23:02<mdz>vektor: if you tell me how to find out the brightness level, maybe
23:02<mdz>hmm, maybe I can do this in xawtv
23:02<mdz>:-P
23:02<TechJosh>vektor: is there a "stay on top" key?
23:02<vektor>uh, can i do that in SDL ?
23:03<vektor>can you do that in X even?
23:03<vektor>i don't think so...
23:03<TechJosh>i dont know
23:03<vektor>me neither
23:03<vektor>i'll look into it if you file a bugreport :)
23:03<TechJosh>dscaler does it
23:03<vektor>mdz: there's no way currently
23:03<vektor>mdz: to have tvtime print out the current setting
23:03<TechJosh>gtg
23:03<vektor>stupidity wins
23:04<TechJosh>vektor: sorry, but are there tint keys?
23:05<vektor>What do you mean by that?
23:06<mdz>vektor: how about tvtime -v?
23:06<vektor>Hue, or Colour ?
23:06<vektor>:)
23:06<vektor>F1/F2 is Hue.
23:06<vektor>mdz: it's quite verbose.
23:06<vektor>mdz: hey! it might say your settings! :)
23:06<mdz>drat, it only prints it out at startup
23:06<mdz>well, how much does it decrease it with each keypress?
23:07<vektor>uh, 1/100th ?
23:08<vektor>dude why don't you just let me commit a patch?
23:08<mdz>because I don't like checking out and compiling stuff over NFS?
23:08<vektor>oh
23:09<mdz>I copied this one over pre-built from another box
23:09<mdz>I had planned on running make install there, but automake foiled me
23:10<mdz>if you don't mind adding AM_MAINTAINER_MODE to configure.{in,ac}, that would help
23:11<vektor>huh?
23:11<vektor>i just run --enable-maintainer-mode
23:11<vektor>but i don't really know what it does
23:12<vektor>care to enlighten me?
23:14<mdz>oh, you already have AM_MAINTAINER_MODE in there
23:14<mdz>otherwise --enable-maintainer-mode wouldn't exist
23:14<vektor>reetness that means i'm cool
23:14<mdz>but...it's supposed to be off by default
23:14<vektor>oh, so i fucke dup?
23:15<mdz>no...something is weird though
23:15<mdz>the problem was that it tried to re-run aclocal when I ran make install
23:15<mdz>it's not supposed to try to regenerate any of that crap automatically unless you're in maintainer mode
23:16<vektor>oh
23:16<vektor>if you can tell me what i did wrong that would be cool
23:18<mdz>I do not have enough buttons on my remote
23:18<mdz>to use tvtime ;-(
23:18<vektor>dude, what can i do to accommodate?
23:18<vektor>oh
23:18<vektor>finish the menu :(
23:18<vektor>ok okok :)
23:18<mdz>how do I select the input source?
23:19<vektor>F9
23:19<vektor>or -i 1
23:19<vektor>-i 0
23:19<vektor>etc
23:19<mdz>aahhh, command line options
23:19<vektor>i like F9
23:19<vektor>tvtime -h lists alot of crap
23:20<mdz>ARCGH
23:20<mdz>man, nothing is going right for me tonight
23:20<vektor>oh no
23:20<vektor>i'm sorry my software is such total crap
23:20<vektor>:(
23:20<mdz>it's not you
23:20<vektor>WOOHOO!!
23:20<mdz>I bought this composite->s-video adapter
23:21<vektor>ugh, that's hard
23:21<mdz>and got it home and tried it and it looks like it's black & white
23:21<vektor>or do you mean s-video to composite
23:21<mdz>composite to s-video
23:21<vektor>yeah, that's difficult, you need a comb filter
23:21<vektor>it won't be a passive component
23:21<mdz>my capture card only accepts s-video, and my tuner only outputs composite
23:21<vektor>i don't think anyway
23:21<mdz>umm...the capture card comes with one
23:21<vektor>really???
23:21<mdz>but I am borrowing this card and the guy couldn't find it
23:21<vektor>crazy..
23:21<mdz>so I bought one
23:21<mdz>and it is crap
23:22<vektor>was that for the ati card?
23:22<mdz>no, for the wintv
23:22<vektor>i thought they had a special mode where it would accept either composite or s-video on the s-video input
23:22<mdz>the ati card comes with a nice break-out box which takes composite, and s-video on the card
23:22<vektor>and you had to switch a mode somewhere to say which you were feeding it
23:22<mdz>really?
23:22<mdz>hmm
23:22<mdz>well, it gives me a black and white picture
23:22<vektor>like, i don't think you can do composite->s-video in a passive component
23:22<vektor>yeah of course it does
23:22<vektor>since you're sending the composite signal to just the luma part of the s-video adaptor
23:23<vektor>there's a way to tell the bttv that it's a composite signal on the s-video input
23:23<vektor>i think :)
23:23<mdz>the card comes with a passive adapter which works
23:23<mdz>I just got ripped off is all
23:23<vektor>oh
23:23<vektor>sorry :(
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23:30<mdz>aahh, my colors look much better
23:30<vektor>What did you do?
23:30<mdz>v4l settings
23:30<vektor>Wow.
23:30<vektor>Send me your settings?
23:30<vektor>I'm very curious.
23:30<mdz>v4lctl -c /dev/v4l/video0 bright 32112 contrast 22282
23:30<mdz>as compared to
23:30<mdz>videoinput: Set to brightness 38036, hue 32896, colour 30330, contrast 26547.
23:31<vektor>ok
23:31<mdz>I brought down both brightness and contrast
23:31<vektor>cool.
23:31<vektor>i'll try that too.
23:31<mdz>I bet I will get better picture quality during capture
23:31<vektor>i think my big problem is the CRAPPY mga overlay and my crappy monitor.
23:31<mdz>stuff that should compress better should compress better now
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23:32<mdz>Chutt: getting a lot of "Delaying to next trigger:" currently
23:32<mdz>Chutt: what does that indicate exactly?
23:33<mdz>vektor: is there a way to have tvtime not scale the image?
23:34<mdz>vektor: and just display it at the same size as it was captured?
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23:34<vektor>ah, good idea
23:34<mdz>vektor: remember, I can't capture and use Xv at the same time
23:34<vektor>mdz: there was a feature but i don't do it anymore, since the input isn't 4:3.
23:34<mdz>on the ATI card
23:34<vektor>but Xv isn't just scaling
23:34<vektor>it's also colourspace conversion
23:34<mdz>I don't think I can use tvtime with the ati card, then
23:34<vektor>need to Y'CbCr->R'G'B' which is butt slow in software.
23:34<vektor>hrm.
23:34<vektor>ok, that's ridiculous.
23:35<vektor>i hope that's fixed in newer ATI cards.
23:35<mdz>it's a driver limitation
23:35<vektor>oh.
23:35<vektor>i don't know if DScaler works with ATI cards either.
23:35<vektor>on their website is says something about a hardawre limitation.
23:35<mdz>I think this probably works under windows
23:35<vektor>oh.
23:35<vektor>ok.
23:35<mdz>because the windows software bundle does timeshifting
23:35<mdz>so it would have to
23:35<mdz>vladimir said he could make it work using YUV textures
23:36<vektor>oh ok.
23:36<mdz>or some such thing
23:36<vektor>ugh, no page flipping then
23:36<vektor>overlay surfaces let you page flip
23:36<vektor>do it with textures and you'll tear
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23:36<mdz>I will be very interested to see how my recordings come out in mythtv
23:37<vektor>i'm going to submit bugreports for you on these issues
23:37<mdz>and whether they will now look too dark on a CRT
23:37<mdz>thanks
23:37<vektor>since i won't be able to think about them until after my talk etc tomorrow
23:37<mdz>I can send you email about any other stuff I run across
23:37<mdz>it takes about 5 minutes longer to use sourceforge
23:38<vektor>please send me email
23:38<vektor>i really appreciate it
23:38<vektor>especially feature requets/annoyances
23:38<vektor>since i want to make this app awesome by the weekend and then post to some mailing lists
23:39<mdz>you should file an RFP to get Debian packages
23:39<vektor>a friend of mine is going to package for me
23:39<vektor>for debian
23:39<mdz>oh yeah, I remember
23:39<vektor>yeah
23:39<mdz>I wish mythtv could go in debian
23:39<vektor>why won't it?
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23:39<mdz>patents
23:39<vektor>huih?? like what??!
23:40<vektor>'timeshifting'?
23:40<vektor>bullshit.
23:40<mdz>like everything in libavcodec
23:40<vektor>oh...
23:40<vektor>libavcodec isn't in debian?
23:40<vektor>sure it is, it's in xine-lib
23:40<rcaskey>auto-apt is your friend ;)
23:40<mdz>encoders? I don't think so...
23:41<vektor>mdz: uh... they're in libavifile then
23:41<vektor>libavifile includes libavcodec including the encoding.
23:41<vektor>I'm pretty sure anyway :)
23:41<mdz>Description: XviD video encoding plugin
23:41<mdz> Plugin for encoding DivX4 video.
23:41<mdz> NOTICE:
23:41<mdz> This plugin requires separate installation of libxvidecore library
23:41<mdz> which is not a part of this package nor Debian itself.
23:41<mdz> See documentation for more details.
23:41<mdz>that's for the bits of avifile that would do the encoding
23:42<vektor>oh what bull.
23:42<vektor>anyway, it can just go in with my lossless video codec
23:42<vektor>works great, patent free.
23:42<vektor>http://www.dumbterm.net/graphics/compression/
23:42<vektor>uses fuckloads of disk space, but it's cheap and works great :)
23:42<mdz>I think the bitrate would be a bit too high for NFS capture
23:42<vektor>also, doesn't myth use the jpeg encoder by default?
23:42<vektor>that's patent-free.
23:42<vektor>anyway
23:42<vektor>i need sleep
23:42<vektor>till tomorrow! :)
23:43<mdz>yeah, I suppose I could rip out the libavcodec stuff
23:43<mdz>but what's the point in having a package if I can't use it myself?
23:43<mdz>good night
23:43<vektor>because you can have it use dlopen to grab the right encoders
23:43<vektor>just like we did for libdvdread
23:43<vektor>which we got in debian
23:43<mdz>yeah, that's basically what avifile does
23:44<mdz>I think xine does too
23:44<vektor>libdvdread loads libdvdcss using dlopen
23:44* vektordid that code :)
23:44<mdz>I'm sick of the whole mess
23:44<vektor>me t00
23:44<mdz>I hope theora works out
23:44<vektor>ok night
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