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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2002-11-10

00:00<Chutt>ibm makes crappy drives
00:00<brtb>yep
00:00<Chutt>had an ibm tech tell me that 'oh, that's not your harddrive making that noise'
00:01<mdz_>Chutt: are you using 3300kbit/sec now?
00:01<Chutt>yes
00:02<mdz_>do you notice much of a difference from 2200?
00:02<Chutt>little cleaner video
00:02<Chutt>not really hurting for disk space
00:02<Chutt>so
00:02<Chutt>i really hate how apt always messes up a large upgrade
00:02<brtb>how much does space/hour does it take up at 3300?
00:03<Chutt>1.5GB/hour
00:03<Chutt>assuming you compress the audio, of course
00:03<mdz_>sloccount says 71,372
00:03<brtb>oh that's not too bad
00:03<Chutt>sloccount does wacky things
00:03<mdz_>including some sh that is probably mine
00:04<mdz_>it's tough to compare bitrates side-by-side
00:04<mdz_>I've gone up to 2700 and don't notice much of a difference from 2200
00:04<mdz_>I wanted to try to get rid of some of the artifacts I see
00:04<mdz_>they're not in the middle of the scene or anything, but they're noticeable if you look for them
00:05<mdz_>if I were to record a movie to keep for a while, I would not want them
00:05<mdz_>which leads into the question of per-recording bitrate selection
00:05<Chutt>eventually
00:06<mdz_>eventually because of lack of interest, or eventually because of higher priority stuff?
00:06<Chutt>higher priority stuff
00:06<mdz_>i.e., would you merge a patch if someone sent you one?
00:06<Chutt>yup
00:06<mdz_>ok
00:06<Chutt>if it were done right
00:06<mdz_>because once I get my IR blaster, I'll probably want to record movies
00:06<Chutt>wow, got another 3 packages installed that run
00:06<mdz_>lots of breakage?
00:06<Chutt>apt rocks
00:06<Chutt>apparently
00:07<mdz_>speaking of apt, I've set up a repository with the mythtv deb
00:07<Chutt>422 packages to install
00:07<Chutt>excellent
00:08<brtb>hmm that reminds me, need to see how slackware 9's coming
00:08<mdz_>deb http://dijkstra.csh.rit.edu:8088/~mdz/mythtv/ ./
00:08<mdz_>untested
00:08<Chutt>heh, neat
00:08<mdz_>well, the deb is tested, but not the repository :-P
00:08<Chutt>right
00:09<mdz_>it's the deb I'm using, so it has the old ringbuffer stuff
00:09<Chutt>ah
00:09<Chutt>no problem there
00:09<mdz_>I would be very interested to hear comparisons of that deb vs. stock 0.7
00:09<mdz_>especially from people on slower processors
00:09<Chutt>well
00:09<mdz_>because I'm not crazy
00:09<brtb>ya know i should try debian again
00:09<Chutt>john said it fixed the problem for him
00:09<brtb>haven't tried it in a while
00:09<Chutt>which was the io starvation
00:10<Chutt>and he's the guy that did all the a/v sync stuff =)
00:10<mdz_>Chutt: he fixed his I/O bottleneck and gave me a CPU bottleneck :-P
00:10<Chutt>yeah
00:10<mdz_>robbing from Peter to pay Paul
00:10<Chutt>actually
00:10<mdz_>brtb: go for it
00:10<Chutt>i'll just fix it so it only uses the write thread when it's using rtjpeg
00:10<mdz_>brtb: if you can make it past the installer, you might just never go back
00:11<mdz_>Chutt: that doesn't sound bad at all
00:11<brtb>well i've been using slack since about 3.2, it'll probably take a lot for me to switch, lol
00:11<Chutt>just make that threadedwriter a child of some write abstraction virtual base class
00:11<Chutt>and one of the children just straight inlined writes
00:11<Chutt>378 packages left to install
00:12<Chutt>the result of 3 more apt runs =)
00:12<-- Syn-has quit ("* k8 liked it better when syn was too busy working and couldnt play quake | <k8> HISYN | <a|wiseguy> syn has it right, esp un)
00:16<mdz_>just uploaded the xmltv stuff to incoming
00:18<Chutt>sweet
00:27<Chutt>302 left :(
00:27<mdz_>wtf is taking so many iterations?
00:28<Chutt>i dunno
00:28<Chutt>kde, perl
00:28<mdz_>is it aborting and then fixing the packages in the next run? keeping them back?
00:28<mdz_>are you running a dist-upgrade?
00:28<Chutt>aborts, then fixes it next run
00:28<Chutt>using apt through dselect
00:29<mdz_>dselect...
00:29* mdz_peers at Chutt
00:29<Chutt>i've been using debian for quite some time :p
00:30<Chutt>seems to be going further this time
00:30<Chutt>doesn't help that the machine's old
00:31<mdz_>I've never taken a liking to dselect
00:31<Chutt>i dunno
00:32<Chutt>i'm comfortable with it
00:32<mdz_>aptitude is nicer, but I just prefer the command line
00:32<Chutt>got pissed off when they changed the stupid keybinding to exit out of help recently
00:32<mdz_>did they change it to something less stupid?
00:32<Chutt>talk about utterly gratuitous changes
00:32<mdz_>it was '.' or something, right?
00:32<Chutt>it was space
00:32<Chutt>now it's enter
00:32<mdz_>oh, right
00:32<mdz_>and '.' for the next page
00:32<Chutt>right
00:32<mdz_>that's insane
00:33<Chutt>yeah, but why is enter better than space?
00:33<Chutt>especially for something that's been the same interface for years
00:33<mdz_>I've seen so many people try to use dselect and get frustrated at the completely unintuitive help
00:33<mdz_>I agree that seems like a gratuitous change
00:33<Chutt>i dunno
00:33<Chutt>i just use it
00:33<mdz_>but if they're going to go fixing keybindings, there are much worse
00:33<Chutt>it's like, really fast to use and stuff
00:34<mdz_>aptitude has a sweet feature where if you install a package, and it pulls in dependencies, and then you remove the package, it would remove the deps for you automagically
00:34<Chutt>heh
00:34<Chutt>that would be nice
00:34<Chutt>apt just needs to remove stuff first
00:34<Chutt>that it's supposed to remove
00:34<mdz_>it does
00:35<Chutt>no, it doesn't
00:35<mdz_>dselect is probably making things worse :-P
00:35<Chutt>naw, i ran some junk in apt to help clear it out
00:35<mdz_>if you just run apt-get dist-upgrade, it processes any removals before upgrades and installs
00:35<Chutt>back in dselect, because apt gave up
00:35<Chutt>it processed half the removals, then started some upgrades
00:35<Chutt>which is how i got into this mess
00:35<Chutt>but it seems to have cleared itself out now
00:36<Chutt>heh
00:36<mdz_>out of curiosity, do you use apt-listchanges?
00:36<Chutt>so the only responses to the question about the status of the gcc 3.2 switchover on d-d is a bunch of 'nfc'
00:36<Chutt>nope
00:37<Chutt>i do everything in dselect, mostly
00:37<Chutt>very, very rarely even use apt-get install <blah>
00:37<mdz_>apt-listchanges works fine in dselect
00:39<mdz_>it's pretty useful for dodging brokenness in unstable, and keeping up with changes in stuff you use
00:39<mdz_>but I'm biased
00:39<Chutt>i always manage to upgrade at exactly the wrong time
00:40<mdz_>at least you don't use GNOME
00:40<Namapoos>mythtv is apt-gettable now?
00:40<mdz_>that stuff is so broken right now
00:41<mdz_>Namapoos: more or less
00:41<Chutt>i used to use gnome
00:41<Chutt>then i realized it was utter crap
00:41<mdz_>it really is
00:41<Chutt>and stopped
00:42<mdz_>I'm fine with just a window manager myself these days
00:42<mdz_>but KDE looks to be about a million miles ahead of gnome
00:42<mdz_>and I've only looked at the stuff in Debian
00:42<mdz_>which I guess is a generation behind
00:42<mdz_>(behind leading-edge KDE)
00:43<mdz_>do you use that stuff, or kde 3?
00:43<Chutt>kde3
00:44<Chutt>the debs that are available from kde's download sites
00:44<Chutt>it's really quite slick
00:44<Chutt>though, really, i just use the window manager, konq, and kmail
00:49<mdz_>konquerer seems pretty nice
00:49<mdz_>though I prefer galeon for a browser, and I'm not much of a file manager user
00:49<Chutt>i just use it as a browser
00:50<mdz_>knoppix uses KDE, that is cool stuff
00:52<mdz_>do you want to put something on the mythtv website with all of the apt sources necessary to install the mythtv deb?
00:52<mdz_>or wait for the xmltv stuff to get into unstable and tell people to use that?
00:53<Chutt>i'll wait for it to get into unstable
00:54<mdz_>liblame, of course, will never get there
00:54<Chutt>right
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00:56<brtb>grr, i have to get a hard drive patch or something, 2.4.18 doesn't recognize the athlon's southbridge
00:56<Chutt>well
00:56<Chutt>you should be using 2.4.19
00:56<Chutt>or one of the -20 prepatches
00:57<Chutt>and try using the -ac patch series as well
01:04<mdz_>you use liblame directly, not libavcodec->liblame, right?
01:04<Chutt>right
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01:07<mdz_>I see a severe flicker with the transparent EPG
01:07<mdz_>any idea what that is?
01:07<Chutt>on redraw?
01:07<mdz_>no, constantly
01:07<mdz_>I don't remember seeing it with the white background
01:07<Chutt>err, really?
01:07<Chutt>weird
01:07<Chutt>does the menu flicker at all?
01:08<mdz_>nope
01:08<mdz_>and I don't see the flicker on my CRT, of course, only on the TV
01:08<Chutt>ah
01:08<Chutt>hmm
01:08<Chutt>what resolution is the tv out?
01:09<mdz_>800x600
01:10<Chutt>can you try with the 'liquid' theme as well?
01:13<mdz_>hmm, it's still there, but significantly less noticeable
01:13<mdz_>I think it's just the colours
01:13<mdz_>which bring it out
01:14<mdz_>I just had my first scheduled recording go with the new version, and the a/v sync is screwed
01:14<mdz_>not sure why
01:16<brtb>mdz... i just put in 0.7... my cpu usage has gone DOWN 20% same settings
01:16<Chutt>how far up?
01:16<Chutt>err, off
01:16<Chutt>not up
01:17<mdz_>Chutt: unwatchable...video is slowed way down, and audio comes in and out about twice per second
01:17<mdz_>hmm, playing it back in mplayer has slightly fast both audio and video
01:18<brtb>video used to be 85%, down to 55-60%
01:18<Chutt>mdz, i dunno :(
01:18<Chutt>it's just fine for me
01:18<Chutt>i just started a recording
01:19<Chutt>and started watching it shortly after it started
01:19<mdz_>watching live works fine
01:19<mdz_>but this recording is quite hosed
01:20<mdz_>the video looks normal in the preview window
01:21<mdz_>let me try another recording
01:24<mdz_>audio sounds fine, but video is a bit choppy
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01:27<brtb>wasn't setup supposed to wipe out scheduled recordings?
01:27<Chutt>yeah
01:27<brtb>it... didn't
01:27<Chutt>except for anytime recordings
01:27<mirk_dt>I'm going to buy a video card with TV out so I can use mythtv. I'd appreciate recommendations of cards that are well supported under linux and have good quality output.
01:27<Chutt>i don't like to recommend hardware.
01:28<mirk_dt>ok. anyone else?
01:28<brtb>stay away from ati all-in-wonder boards, only suggestion I have
01:29<mirk_dt>cool
01:29<brtb>my tv-out method is a scan converter hooked to the vga port
01:29<KeyserSoze>how about nvidia geforce 4 ti's?
01:29<Chutt>mdz, so, what'd you break? :p
01:30<mdz_>Chutt: damned if I know
01:30<mdz_>Chutt: but it's definitely broken
01:30<mirk_dt>i've got an nvidia gforce2 in my laptop and haven't been too impressed with the proprietary drivers.
01:30<Chutt>why?
01:30<Chutt>do you commonly modify your video card driver's source?
01:31<mdz_>I think maybe it doesn't like the higher bitrate
01:31<Chutt>mdz, network not keeping up?
01:31<Chutt>but, if it works in livetv..
01:31<mdz_>dropping down to 480x480 makes it happy
01:31<mdz_>trying 640b480 back down to 2200 now
01:31<mdz_>I'm starting to notice it in live tv now too
01:32<Chutt>heh
01:32<mirk_dt>Chutt: no, but it doesn't compile with the kernel
01:32<mirk_dt>so any kernel changes i make, I have to compile the driver separately
01:32<mirk_dt>and I've had X lock several times without reason.
01:32<mirk_dt>I suspect the driver.
01:32<Chutt>naw, suspect xfree
01:33<mirk_dt>why?
01:33<Chutt>it's just as likely
01:33<Chutt>because whining about a binary only driver is stupid.
01:33<mdz_>yeah, looks like that's it
01:33<Chutt>anyway
01:33<mdz_>hmm
01:33<mirk_dt>well, I'm running the same version of X on my desktop with an ATI driver and have had no such lockups.
01:34<Chutt>good for you
01:34<brtb>but many other hardware differences as well
01:34<Chutt>like i said
01:34<mirk_dt>true
01:34<Chutt>i really don't like to recommend hardware.
01:34<mirk_dt>:-P
01:35<mdz_>looks like I have some tweaking to do as far as getting the network happy at higher bitrates
01:35<mdz_>it's not dropping any packets; there are only like 3 retransmits out of 2.5 million
01:37<brtb>try running iptraf on the "server" end and see what kind of transfer bitrates you're getting
01:37<Chutt>well, i'll be doin all that soon enough
01:37<mdz_>brtb: throughput is fine; the network is less than 10% utilized
01:37<Chutt>so i'll probably be adding some buffering and junk
01:37<brtb>hm
01:37<mdz_>brtb: it's just some latency that seems to be introduced when it flushes
01:37<mdz_>I'm tweaking the kernel buffers now
01:38<mdz_>and will be playing with the NFS blocksize
01:38<Chutt>mdz, though, i think i'm going to go for a different setup approach than you have
01:38<brtb>what nic? i have an rtl8139 that refuses to transfer any more than 3meg/sec, transfers from good nics (3com, intel) to the server (3com) go at about 8.5
01:39<Chutt>even 3 MB/sec should be plenty
01:39<mdz_>I've pushed over 40mbit/sec on this setup without even trying
01:39<mdz_>that's NFS throughput
01:39<brtb>heh
01:41<mdz_>Chutt: doing something TCP-ish?
01:42<Chutt>probably
01:42<Chutt>encode box/playback box type stuff
01:42<mdz_>I would like to run NFS over TCP
01:42<mdz_>but Linux only has it in 2.5
01:44<brtb>i wonder what the throughput is with a samba mount... best drive I have is in a win2k box
01:52<Chutt>damnit
01:52<Chutt>why can't the stupid debian alsa maintainer actually make working stuff
01:52<Chutt>what's the point of making that dialog to select which drivers to compile
01:52<Chutt>if you don't actually _use_ that when you go to compile
01:52<brtb>heh
01:53<mdz_>it's been worse
01:54<mdz_>used to be that the debconf stuff didn't even correspond to the right driver names
01:54<mdz_>so it wouldn't build at all
01:54<Chutt>heh
01:54<Chutt>yeah
01:54<mdz_>the maintainer has been AWOL for a while now
01:54<mdz_>but just recently someone has stepped in and started cleaning them up
01:54<Chutt>but thing is, the compile is breaking right now
01:56<Chutt>since it's trying to compile something that i suppose i don't have some kernel option set for
01:57<mdz_>all that stuff will go away soon enough
01:57<Chutt>yeah
01:58<mdz_>134217728 bytes transferred in 14.092913 seconds (9523775 bytes/sec)
01:58<mdz_>that's over NFS :-)
01:58<brtb>nice
01:58<Chutt>yeah, but that's using large block sizes
01:58<mdz_>16k
01:59<mdz_>heh, it reads it back entirely out of cache
01:59<mdz_>268435456 bytes transferred in 0.634484 seconds (423076822 bytes/sec)
02:00<mdz_>with 4k blocks, it's about the same
02:03<Chutt>always nice to reboot and have the kernel panic immediately
02:20<mdz_>hmm, my thoughput measurements do not seem to correspond to performance in mythtv
02:20<mdz_>that makes things tricky
02:24<mdz_>ran out of free AUDIO buffers :-(
02:27<mdz_>I get a lot of that when I use a very large NFS blocksize
02:27<mdz_>though raw reads/writes speed up a lot
02:27<mdz_>a LOT
02:28<brtb>hmm... samba mount doesn't work, but i'm not sure what to attribute that to yet
02:28<mdz_>SMB throughput sucks
02:29<brtb>yeah but i'm only trying at 1500 bitrate, it should at least be able to handle that
02:29<brtb>oh well
02:38<mdz_>I remember trying to move uncompressed CD audio over SMB
02:38<mdz_>it was awful, and would crash halfway through anyway
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06:45<antlarr>hello
06:45<Antw73>hello
06:46<antlarr>I've just downloaded mythtv, but I have some problems. First, there's no way to get channels information from Spanish TV channels, so I've not installed xmltv and I've not run mythfilldata, is that ok?
06:48<antlarr>vektor: It's been a long time since I met you in IRC last time !
06:48<Antw73>well, it means you won't really be able to use the program guide for a start
06:48<Antw73>and unless you manually edit your channel database live TV will be a pain too
06:49<antlarr>Editing it manually is no problem
06:49<Antw73>good, then you should at least be able to get live tv working ok
06:49<antlarr>ok, then we come to the second problem :)
06:49<Antw73>he
06:49<antlarr>when I run mythtv, I get :
06:50<antlarr>Changing from None to WatchingLiveTV
06:50<antlarr>Cannot open DSP '', dying.
06:50<antlarr>Could not detect audio blocksize
06:50<antlarr>Cannot open DSP '', exitingCan't open video device:
06:50<antlarr>open video:: No such file or directory
06:50<antlarr>VIDIOCSAUDIO: Bad file descriptor
06:50<antlarr>I've killed artsd, just to be sure it's not the problem
06:50<Antw73>ok, have you run setup?
06:51<antlarr>?? no
06:51<antlarr>ouch
06:51<Antw73>did you read the install instructions? =)
06:51<antlarr>yes, but it seems I didn't read that paragraph %-)
06:52<Antw73>hehe, you would be surprised how many miss that =) too eager to get everything working =)
06:52<antlarr>I've even started to debug the code :)
06:52<Antw73>heh =)
06:53<Antw73>well if you find bugs Isaac is always open to excepting patches, pretty cool that way
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07:11<antlarr>re
07:16<Antw73>how did it go with the setup?
07:20<antlarr>strange :)
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07:21<antlarr>I have a cable that connects the tv card's output audio to the soundcard linein
07:21<antlarr>and mythtv plays the audio "with echo"
07:21<Antw73>ahhh =) have you read the FAQ? =)
07:22<Antw73>I think thats question 4
07:23<antlarr>yes, I read something about that previously, and I thought it said something about keeping linein muted but in record mode
07:23<antlarr>I'll find it again
07:23<Antw73>yup
07:23<Antw73>say yes, question 4 of the FAQ in the distribution, not the web page
07:23<Antw73>I recall that being a major pain to get working the first few times I did it too
07:25<antlarr>capture mixer, hmmm
07:29<antlarr>Antw73: video works great, if only I could make audio work ok
07:30<Antw73>ok, still got the echo?
07:33<Antw73>antlarr: try muting everything except wave out and setting the record on linein
07:33<Antw73>antlarr: if that doesn't work, then check if your card is supported by btaudio module and run that instead with the audio passthru unplugged
07:35<antlarr>no, it doesn't work, as soon as line in is muted, then there's no audio at all
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07:36<kaveh420>hey anyone here?
07:36<Antw73>antlarr: you using sblive?
07:37<Antw73>antlarr: don't be concerned, I had the exact same problem the first time I was trying to get the mixer to play nice
07:37<kaveh420>can anyone tell me am i supposed to run the line out of the tv card to the line in on my audio card? i don't have the right cables with me so i can't test it out, other than that everything seems to be ok
07:38<antlarr>Antw73: no, it's a pci128
07:38<Antw73>kaveh420: you can use the btaudio kernel module instead of that cable if you don't have one. Provided your bt card supports it
07:38<Antw73>antlarr: do you have ingain and outgain sliders?
07:39<Antw73>antlarr: try raising those a little and unmuting them
07:39<kaveh420>Antw73: is that how i get the the audio to stop when i hit pause? the audio just keeps on going, what do i set as my audio device? /dev/dsp?
07:41<Antw73>kaveh420: if your audio keeps going you have the passthru cable attached most likely, and you have exactly the same problem as antlarr here =)
07:41<Antw73>kaveh420: read the fourth section of the FAQ in the distribution
07:42<kaveh420>Antw73: is that the same as the FAQ online? i deleted the download
07:42<Antw73>kaveh420: nope, its a different FAQ, you can go into the CVS and read it there
07:43<Antw73>kaveh420: here is the text
07:43<Antw73>) The audio's _really_ out of sync, and it doesn't pause when I pause live TV?
07:43<Antw73>- You need to mute the line-in, and set the mixer to record from the line in.
07:43<Antw73> The audio you're hearing is from the audio pass-through, enabled by the
07:43<Antw73> V4L driver, and not MythTV. If you're using ALSA, make sure to have the
07:43<Antw73> 'Capture' mixer enabled and non-muted and at a decent volume.
07:44<kaveh420>Antw73: oh! ok. can you recomment a good mixer app for KDE, i'm running gentoo 1.4-rc1 and i only have kde base installed
07:45<Antw73>kaveh420: aumix or kmix, doesn't really matter
07:47<kaveh420>Antw73: how do i mute the line in using aumix?
07:49<Antw73>good question, I hate that UI =)
07:50<kaveh420>Antw73: what package is kmix part off?
07:50<antlarr>Antw73: kdemultimedia
07:50<kaveh420>thanks
07:50<Antw73>probably multimedia
07:50<antlarr>I just found a kmix bug, fortunately, I'm using to hacking kmix :)
07:51<Antw73>hehehe =) which bug is that
07:52<antlarr>It segfaults after adding the "Brooktree Bt878 audio" mixer to the list of mixers, while trying to update the balance
07:52<antlarr>I suppose it's because it's mono :)
07:53<Antw73>doh =)
07:55<kaveh420>antlarr: does that prevent you from setting up mythtv correctly?
07:56<antlarr>kaveh420: don't worry, I'm sure you won't have that problem. I'm using the cvs version of kmix, so stable releases shouldn't have that bug
07:56<kaveh420>anyone here look at the source code, or think about messing with it? i'd like to see how easy or hard it would be to see album covers and change the visualizations, maybe even support plugins for visuals
07:56<kaveh420>antlarr: ok, thanks
07:56<Antw73>kaveh420: well, I do some dabbling in this code =)
07:57<Antw73>kaveh420: get on the mailing list, and throw your ideas in there
07:57<kaveh420>Antw73: what have you worked on or changed?
07:57<Antw73>kaveh420: get an idea of what the developers think of your ideas, if they sound positive go ahead and send in patches
07:58<kaveh420>xmame is taking forever to install!
07:58<Antw73>kaveh420: small bug fixes in MythGame, better support for euro's in mythfilldatabase, and currently burning nuv files to VCD media
08:00<kaveh420>Antw73: rtjpeg or whatever is VCD format?
08:00<kaveh420>Antw73: is that an mpg codec?
08:00<kaveh420>Antw73: what was the bug in MythGame thats the next thing i'm playing with
08:00<Antw73>kaveh420: yup mpeg-1 video, layer2 audio, its a recoding batch job
08:00<kaveh420>Antw73: do you submit code changes/ bug fixes?
08:01<Antw73>kaveh420: of course, thats what opensource code is all about =)
08:01<kaveh420>Antw73
08:01<kaveh420>;
08:01<kaveh420>Antw73 :)
08:01<Antw73>kaveh420: if you use something and find a bug, you fix it and tell the maintainers rather than whine =)
08:02<kaveh420>Antw73: i'm new to the concept but i really would like to contribute, i jsut have to find some time and sit through the source
08:02<Antw73>kaveh420: if you can't fix it, you can always try to help the people who can bughunt =)
08:03<Antw73>kaveh420: also, you don't have to code to contribute, testing and writing docs, doing graphics are also great ways to help projects
08:03<antlarr>Otoh, we were going to release KDE 3.1 in a few days, so kmix should already be stable on cvs, but well :)
08:05<antlarr>kaveh420: don't worry about that bug I mentioned, I introduced it in cvs some weeks ago :)
08:05<Antw73>heh, uhoh a KDE developer =)
08:05<Antw73>quick hide the Gnome out back
08:06<antlarr>hehe :)
08:06<Antw73>btw, thanks for working on KDE its been my favourite desktop for a long time now
08:07<antlarr>thanks to you for using it :)
08:08<antlarr>and mainly, to work in mythtv, which I plan to use for a long time ;-)
08:08<Antw73>great =)
08:08<antlarr>Btw, now I have a brooktree mixer in kmix with three Line sliders, what do they mean?
08:10<Antw73>no idea =) never seen that =(
08:10<Antw73>do they have recording buttons?
08:10<antlarr>yes, but only one of them can be set at a time (they are exclusive)
08:11<Antw73>right, one would be radio, assuming you have radio on the card? one is probably the tvaudio, no idea what the other could be
08:12<antlarr>changing the record source in the btaudio mixer makes the sound a little different , but as soon as the sound card mixer's line in is muted, there's no sound at all
08:12<antlarr>no, I don't have radio, and just mono tv
08:12<Antw73>hmmmmm
08:14<Antw73>ugh, we really have to make setting up the audio a little more transparant
08:16<kaveh420>yeah
08:17<Antw73>antlarr: sounds like you have a good lot of mixer and audio experience, you might want to take a look at that
08:19<antlarr>from the btaudio docs: "The chip has three analog inputs. Consequently you'll get a mixer device
08:19<antlarr>to control these.
08:19<antlarr>"
08:19<kaveh420>3 analog inputs? what tv card?
08:19<antlarr>well, when talking about multimedia, I have a lot of experience with MIDI (I'm the KMid author), but I only fix some things in kmix when I find something wrong :)
08:20<antlarr>kaveh420: an Avermedia TV card
08:21<kaveh420>antlarr: i have the AverTV stereo card, also is /dev/dsp for my primary audio card cause i also have a /dev/dsp1
08:21<antlarr>well, I'll go to have lunch now, I'll be back in an hour or so
08:22<kaveh420>ok think about my dsp question :)
08:22<antlarr>sure :)
08:25<kaveh420>Antw73: do you know which /dev/dsp device is the right one?
08:26<Antw73>kaveh420: do you have more than one soundcard?
08:26<kaveh420>no
08:26<Antw73>then /dev/dsp or /dev/dsp0 should be the right onw
08:27<kaveh420>Antw73: i have an audigy and an avertv stereo card, oh ok, thanks
08:27<kaveh420>Antw73: i'm a bit of a noob, can i ask you a couple questions? what does cvs stand for and how do i get all the code to use in an install
08:28<kaveh420>Antw73: are there no make files, do i have to make my own?
08:28<Antw73>ummm, how did you install? If you are unsure about CVS then stick to the release files for now
08:29<kaveh420>i installed using the releasefiles but i'm curious about how i keep up to date with CVS in order to develop or help with development
08:29<kaveh420>does cvs=current viewable source? just a guess
08:29<kaveh420>:)
08:29<Antw73>ok, well you need the CVS programs, which are Concurrent Version System
08:30<kaveh420>cvs programs?? do you mean a program that browses a CVS tree?
08:30<Antw73>best thing to do is get on the mailing list first and get a feel for the people
08:30<kaveh420>ok
08:30<Antw73>think about CVS later on
08:31<kaveh420>can i just browse the mailing list i really don't want to be getting a ton of email
08:31<kaveh420>isn't much like a message board with threads?
08:31<Antw73>yup, follow the links on the webpage, but if you want to get involved you should really join the list
08:32<kaveh420>ok
08:32<kaveh420>thanks for all your help
08:32<Antw73>no problem, I'll be here all week =)
08:34<kaveh420>haha, ok
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10:12<antlarr>bbl
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10:32<vektor>hey chutt.
10:32<vektor>how's it going?
10:34-!-Antw73 [~ant@krynn.solace.mh.se] has joined #mythtv
10:40<Chutt>i'm sleepy
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10:52<mza>Hi. I'm having the same problem as was discussed on the mailing list in August subject "No TV displayed" I get a "VIDIOCSAUDIO: Invalid argument" when I run mythtv and no window or tv appears. There was never any solution posted, I believe. Anyone know what's wrong?
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10:55<Chutt>since that's a non-fatal error, no, not without more debugging.
10:57<Chutt>oh, using a AIW, too?
10:57<mza>AIW 128
10:58<Chutt>they don't work for video input
10:58<mza>d'oh!
11:02<mza>So there's no support in mythtv for the ati cards at all? Or to say it another way, the v4l drivers for the ati cards don't work with mythtv?
11:03<Chutt>the v4l drivers for AIW cards is halfassed nnd incomplete
11:03<Chutt>there's also some hardware limitations for those cards, apparently
11:03<Chutt>you can't record video and output it using the hardware scaler at the same time
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11:24<antlarr2>hi
11:26-!-antlarr2 is now known as antlarr
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11:41<K-Man>When i try to start "mythfilldatabase" i am getting this error:
11:41<K-Man>QSqlDatabase warning: QMYSQL3 driver not loaded
11:41<K-Man>QSqlDatabase: available drivers:
11:41<K-Man>Couldn't open db
11:41<antlarr>K-Man: did you compile the mysql module in Qt ?
11:42<K-Man>I used the qt that is precompiled in mandrake 9
11:42<K-Man>do i need to recompile it?
11:42<Chutt>there's an entire README.mandrake9.0
11:42<Chutt>use it.
11:42<K-Man>ok
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11:50<K-Man>I cant find anything in the README.mandrake9.0 file about QT, it's only described how you shuld install it from an rpm, ut i have installed it :(
11:50<K-Man>ut = but
11:51<antlarr>K-Man:chek the $QTDIR/plugin/sqldrivers directory
11:53<K-Man>i got 3 files there: libqsqlmysql.so libqsqloobc.so libqsqlpsql.so
11:57<antlarr>I suppose that if you run qtconfig, then that directory is inside the plugins directories field, isn't it ?
12:01<K-Man>ahh :)
12:01<K-Man>$QTDIR/plugins/sqldrivers wosnt in the list, it started when i added it :)
12:02<antlarr>:)
12:05<antlarr>anybody has a tv card with the sound output connected with a pass-thru to the line in of the sound card ?
12:06<vektor>I do.
12:07<antlarr>vektor ! are you the same vektor that was developing a voice-over-ip app ?
12:09<vektor>Um, yes.
12:09<vektor>Hmm, your name sounds familiar :)
12:10<antlarr>well, it's been a long time since we don't meet on IRC :)
12:10<antlarr>I'm the author of KMid, KPager, and some others
12:10<vektor>ah, cool :)
12:10<vektor>i ditched kde :)
12:11<antlarr>:)
12:11<vektor>i'm now into video apps :)
12:11<antlarr>I see :)
12:11<vektor>http://tvtime.sourceforge.net/ is my latest.
12:11<antlarr>well, I have a problem for you in that case :)
12:11<vektor>cool, what is it?
12:12<antlarr>do you know how can I get mythtv to work with my configuration? as soon as I mute line-in, then I don't get any sound, but when line-in volume is up, then I get sound "with echo" (everything is said twice, with a small delay)
12:13<vektor>ok, well, you should be able to record from line in without having it sent out the speakers
12:13<vektor>run your favorite mixer app :)
12:14<vektor>there should be some sort of mixer setting for like IGain maybe or something?
12:14<vektor>basically, there should be some setting that controls the echo independent of the line-in recording volume.
12:14<antlarr>no, I don't have IGain
12:14<vektor>well you should have 'something'.
12:16<antlarr>nope
12:16<vektor>hrm..
12:17<antlarr>I've tried aumix, kmix and alsamixer and none of them have any way to change the input or output gain
12:18<vektor>hmmm...
12:18<vektor>What soundcard?
12:19<antlarr>SB PCI 128 (ens1370)
12:19<vektor>oh??
12:19<mza>K-Man, did you fix the "QSqlDatabase warning: QMYSQL3 driver not loaded" problem? I ran into that and fixed it by installing the rpm for qt-MySQL
12:19<vektor>jeez, I have one of those and it has an igain....
12:19<vektor>hmm.
12:20<antlarr>alsa 0.9.0 ?
12:20<vektor>no, oss.
12:20<vektor>but i assume that you have everything i have, just with different names
12:20<vektor>are you sure you tried all of the sliders?
12:21<vektor>it could also be that i just have the problem wrong
12:21<antlarr>I'll try again, but I think I already did
12:21<vektor>did you try turning down line-in, not muting it?
12:21<vektor>like, maybe the record volume is independent of the line-in volume.
12:21<vektor>that might be true.
12:21* vektorforgets :)
12:21<antlarr>I've tried both
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12:24<K-Man>mza: i fixed it :)
12:27<K-Man>ncftp mandrake
12:27<K-Man>ops :P
12:29<mza>I type "df" or "ll" into instant-message programs all the time
12:29<mza>:)
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12:46<rcaskey>so for optimal myth performance, what should my hdparms be set to for ide disks
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13:06<mdz_>rcaskey: man hdparm
13:07<mdz_>rcaskey: in about 50 places on that page, it explains that the optimal value will be different on different hardware
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15:18<rnc>why is MySQL required ?
15:18<vektor>for the program database?
15:19<rnc>I mean, why something as big as mysql ?
15:20<vektor>As 'big' as mysql?
15:21<rnc>I mean, it's a huge requirement
15:21<rnc>and that just for storing TV Guides ?
15:28<Universe>and programming information
15:28<Universe>like what to record, when
15:29<Universe>and its used for MythMusic
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16:34<TheMasterMind1>?
16:34<rnc>!
16:34<TheMasterMind1>~
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17:15<whatsit>I just saw the great news on the website about debian packages... how's that going?
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17:18<whatsit>hi... anyone here?
17:19<nyquiljer>no :)
17:20<whatsit>heh
17:20<whatsit>has anyone gotten .7 to work yet?
17:21<nyquiljer>i havent even tried yet
17:21<nyquiljer>but i got a cvs snapshot from a week or so to work
17:21<whatsit>oic
17:28<whatsit>anybody know which debian package libmp3lame comes in?
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17:30<nyquiljer>hmm, i know i installed it before, but i cant find it now
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17:31<whatsit>hm...
17:31<whatsit>it isn't a source package is it?
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17:32<antlarr>re
17:33<whatsit>antlarr: ??
17:33<whatsit>is xmltv going to be put in a debian package too?
17:33<nyquiljer>maybe there is no package...i probably just installed it from source
17:34<nyquiljer>there is an unstable package of xmltv
17:34<whatsit>oic
17:34<whatsit>I couldn't find it
17:36<antlarr>whatsit: nothing, I just said "re" as in "re-hi" or "hi again" :)
17:36<whatsit>oic
17:37<nyquiljer>is that the sound a pig makes?
17:38<whatsit>o (oh) i (I) c (See) ;)
17:38<whatsit>and I believe a pig says oink
17:40<nyquiljer>i know, i was just bing stupid
17:41<whatsit>:_
17:41<whatsit>:)
17:41<whatsit>doh!
17:42<whatsit>I'm a little punchy... I just got my new WinTV GO working with bttv driver
17:44<yebyen>heh cool :)
17:45<whatsit>can MythTV be used to record radio programs too?
17:45<rnc>anyone with a pinnacle pctv ?
17:45<whatsit>if not, that might be a cool module
17:45<yebyen>no idea, i don't know how you'd go about that
17:45<yebyen>but yeah it would
17:45<yebyen>you mean from the bttv's radio interface?
17:46<whatsit>yeah
17:46<yebyen>might be cool, i wouldn't use it though
17:46<whatsit>it would be a tivo-like system for radio programs
17:46<antlarr>anyone with alsa 0.9.0 and a sb pci 128 sound card ?
17:46<yebyen>i'm in a basement, out in the country no radio reception at all :)
17:46<whatsit>yebyen: that sucks
17:47<yebyen>not really, it means I don't listen to the radio
17:47<whatsit>yebyen: you could run an antenna to the roof and never miss Prairie Home Companion ever again. :)
17:47<yebyen>which makes me that much better of a person
17:47<yebyen>hehe
17:47<whatsit>lol
17:48<whatsit>I certainly wouldn't want to record the music off of the radio, but talk shows and dramas would be cool
17:48<nyquiljer>they still have radio dramas?
17:49<whatsit>nyquiljer: sure... they're just hard to find
17:49<whatsit>nyquiljer: USA has NPR and they run some every now and again
17:49<nyquiljer>they run the oldschool stuff, or new ones?
17:50<whatsit>nyquiljer: mostly new, I think... not sure really
17:50<nyquiljer>wow, i had no idea
17:50<whatsit>it would be cool if some sort of MythRadio module would record right to OGG or MP3 for portability
17:51<nyquiljer>yeh, that would be pretty cool
17:51<whatsit>copy the show over to your mobile player and go anywhere with it
17:51<nyquiljer>what i'd like is the pause, rewind functionality when listening to the radio
17:51<nyquiljer>i listen to lots of talk radio
17:51<whatsit>nyquiljer: that would be cool
17:52<nyquiljer>and it'd be nice to not miss anything. bu i listen on a real radio at work and in my car
17:52<nyquiljer>so it woulndt do me much good
17:52<whatsit>once I get my setup working, I'll have to look into what it would take to make a module like that
17:52<whatsit>I can think of at least a handfull of shows I wish I could listen to at-will
17:53<whatsit>of course, unless you had two tuner cards, you would have to keep from scheduling a radio show and a tv show at the same time
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18:01<antlarr>hi Antw73
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19:34<vektor>Chutt: According to 'Video Demystified' there are three USA cable standards.
19:35<vektor>and canada-cable doesn't perfectly match any of them, actually. it's slightly off.
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19:54<whatsit>whenever I run mythtv I'm getting "cannot open db" errors
19:54<whatsit>can anyone tell me how to reset the password mythtv uses fro the db?
19:59<whatsit>never mind... I'll just uninstall and re-install
20:01<mdz_>whatsit: /etc/mythtv/mysql.txt
20:03<mdz_>the latest debs are now available from http://dijkstra.csh.rit.edu:8088/~mdz/mythtv/
20:03<mdz_>there are also backported XMLTV packages there
20:03<mdz_>so anyone running woody or later should be able to install and use these packages
20:15-!-Antw73 [~ant@krynn.solace.mh.se] has joined #mythtv
20:58<Chutt>heh
20:58-!-Antw73 [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:58<Chutt>nice slow email day
20:59<rnc>anyone with a pinnacle pctv ?
20:59<Chutt>mdz, so, how possible are download counts occasionally of those debs?
21:00-!-whatsit [] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
21:03<mdz_>Chutt: automatic or manual?
21:04<Chutt>just whenever
21:04<Chutt>i'd just like to know every now and then, is all
21:04<mdz_>sure, just let me know when you want them
21:04<Chutt>cool.
21:04<mdz_>currently it's the only thing I have on that server, so you can have the whole access.log if you want
21:05<mdz_>want to add a link from mythtv.org?
21:05<Chutt>yeah, i will in a bit
21:05<mdz_>whatsit installed the packages a little while ago
21:05<mdz_>and I have not heard from him since :-)
21:05<mdz_>I do not know if that is a good sign or a bad sign
21:06<mdz_>I spent several hours today tweaking my quality settings
21:06<Chutt>i'm assuming the lack of bug reports on the mailing list are due to it mostly working properly
21:06<mdz_>I found that if I crank up the minquality, I get very nice looking video at about 8mbit/sec :-)
21:07<Chutt>heh
21:07<Chutt>crank up?
21:07<mdz_>2 or so
21:07<Chutt>so like 2 and 2?
21:07<mdz_>yeah
21:07<Chutt>heh
21:07<mdz_>the max doesn't really matter when you get down to that point
21:07<mdz_>unless the target bitrate is enormous
21:07<Chutt>right
21:07<Chutt>heh
21:07<mdz_>I'm trying to come up with a method
21:07<Chutt>anyway, i'll bbl, and i'll add the link then
21:08<mdz_>ok
21:08<mdz_>when I started tuning, I was running at 640x480 using 0.7 minus the new ringbuffer stuff
21:09<mdz_>and at high quality, things got a bit choppy
21:09<mdz_>nothing that looked like a drop, really, but just occasional very small hiccups
21:09<mdz_>only with video
21:10<mdz_>I guessed that it was due to I/O latency
21:10<mdz_>so I backed off to 480x480, and it got somewhat better
21:10<mdz_>then at 480x480, I went back to the new ringbuffer
21:10<mdz_>and was able to turn up the quality and still have smooth video
21:10<mdz_>which is more or less what I expected
21:11<mdz_>so since 480x480 is acceptable on my TV, I set about trying to make 480x480 look as good as possible with a reasonable bitrate
21:12<mdz_>with pretty much anything from 2mbit/sec upward, foreground objects look near-perfect
21:12<mdz_>but background artifacts seem to be very hard to get rid of
21:13<mdz_>I'm sure you know the type, where there is a smooth gradient like a cascading light, or a dark or dim sky
21:16<mdz_>everything I read tells me that at the bitrates I'm testing, MPEG-4 should look much better than I am seeing
21:17<vektor>Maybe your overlay is in 16bit mode?
21:17<vektor>Or, the idct used by your decoder is poor, see Doom9's page on idct comparisons.
21:18<mdz_>hmm, good point
21:18<vektor>Also, MPEG-4 quality will suffer greatly if you're not deinterlacing.
21:18<mdz_>I am indeed using 16bit mode
21:18<mdz_>I am deinterlacing now
21:18<mdz_>since I dropped back to 480x480, why not
21:18<vektor>Well, just because you're in 16bit mode doesn't mean that the overlay is.
21:18<mdz_>I have lots of CPU to spare at that frame size
21:18<vektor>Overlay occurs, on many cards, as it's sent out.
21:18<vektor>Well, if your deinterlacing algorithm isn't very good, then..
21:18<mdz_>hmm
21:18<vektor>What's the deinterlacing algorithm used?
21:19<mdz_>vektor: take that up with Chutt :-)
21:19<vektor>If it brings in too much from the other field, then your compression quality will suffer more than the visual quality.
21:19* vektorupdates from CVS to find out which deinterlacing algorithm is being used.
21:19<mdz_>I've been looking at a lot of digital video lately, and I think I can tell the difference between badly deinterlaced, and badly compressed video
21:19<vektor>Ok.
21:19<mdz_>these are JPEG-ish artifacts
21:20<vektor>Well, I found that when I was first playing with DVDs, I would get confused.
21:20<vektor>Like, I'd be ripping a DVD and it would look fine, then suddenly it would look like crap.
21:20<mdz_>yeah, I'm new to all this of course
21:20<vektor>And it was because it switched to pulldown expanded stuff.
21:20<vektor>Pulldown deinterlacing is less noticable, but it totally screws compression.
21:20<mdz_>sometimes I wonder if I've just been staring at this stuff too much, and I'm noticing things that I would not notice if I were actually paying attention to the action
21:20<mdz_>rather than scrutinizing it for quality
21:21<vektor>uhhhhhh
21:21<vektor>duuuude
21:21<vektor>you're not using 'linearBlend' for deinterlacing, are you?
21:21<mdz_>I'm using mythtv
21:21<mdz_>I believe that's what it uses, yes
21:22<vektor>with nuppelvideo ?
21:22<mdz_>what does nuppelvideo have to do with deinterlacing?
21:23<vektor>sorry
21:23<vektor>it's in libNuppelVideo in the mythtv sources
21:23<vektor>that's where chutt does all the compression/playback stuff
21:23<mdz_>rigt
21:23<mdz_>right
21:23<mdz_>I am using more or less unmodified mythtv 0.7
21:25<vektor>ok give me 5 minutes :)
21:25* vektorreading code
21:26<vektor>wow
21:27<vektor>so, this just blurrs the frame using a 1 2 1 vertical filter.
21:27<vektor>on every scanline.
21:27<vektor>i'm going to implement this in tvtime, should take about 5 minutes
21:28<vektor>i think it will look kinda bad :)
21:28<vektor>but i'm really just curious about how much this hides interlacing artifacts
21:31<vektor>ok codd
21:35<vektor>ok... some comparisons...
21:35<mdz_>the MPEG-2 video that I get via digital cable is, I believe, somewhere around 6-7mbit/sec
21:37<vektor>oh wow, so you're capturing MPEG-2 as analog and recompressing it?
21:37<mdz_>for some channels I do that
21:37<mdz_>for others, I get an analog cable signal and sample it
21:37<mdz_>I don't have a choice, really
21:37<mdz_>obviously I would love to be able to get access to the MPEG-2 stream
21:39<mdz_>but that's not going to happen
21:40<mdz_>it just seems like I should be able to get a better picture at these bitrates
21:40-!-OrangeSun [~orangey@London-HSE-ppp3540273.sympatico.ca] has joined #mythtv
21:40<OrangeSun>hey guys!
21:41<OrangeSun>question: Is it possible to allow my Windows Media player to use the nuppel (?) codec that myth uses?
21:42<mdz_>OrangeSun: I don't know any reason why it should not be possible to write a codec module for windows media player which can do that
21:42<mdz_>OrangeSun: but I do not think that anyone has done it
21:44<vektor>it would be pretty easy to do a directshow codec.
21:44<vektor>but i have no windows and no care :)
21:44<OrangeSun>how does one write a codec?
21:44<OrangeSun>I'll write one if I have 10% of the required knowledge..
21:44<vektor>for directshow?
21:44<vektor>you basically take the sample source filter code from the DX8 SDK and go from there.
21:45<vektor>it's a bit of a pain, the negotiation stuff
21:45<vektor>it's like in a few phases
21:45<vektor>and it's a pain :)
21:45<OrangeSun>what's directshow? If I write the codec for directshow, will it work in WMP?
21:45<mdz_>I should modify mythtv to make it possible to reset the video stream and start encoding with different parameters
21:45<mdz_>that would make it way easier to compare things side-by-side
21:45<mdz_>as it is, I have to stop and start it (from another room) to try things
21:45<vektor>OrangeSun: Yes, DirectShow is the video/audio codec architecture in MS Windows.
21:46<vektor>OrangeSun: If you get the DX8 SDK it comes with samples, and all of the documentation is in MSDN.
21:46<vektor>OrangeSun: You'll be best to use MSVC++.
21:46<mdz_>vektor: do you know if any of the projects to make a common codec API for unix systems are making any progress?
21:46<OrangeSun>do I need c++ knowledge?
21:46<vektor>mdz: Well, yeah. gstreamer is cool.
21:47<vektor>OrangeSun: That would help :)
21:47<mdz_>vektor: I thought gstreamer was an application
21:47<OrangeSun>vektor: Ok.. gots me some C++ knowledge (though it's been a while).. i'll look at it and see if I can get something going on..
21:47<vektor>mdz: _hell_no_ :)
21:48<vektor>mdz: gstreamer is basically a filter library.
21:48<vektor>mdz: there are alot of smart people working on it, although I think it's going a bit slowly. :)
21:48<mdz_>vektor: is it used by any other software besides itself?
21:48<vektor>mdz: it does work though. It comes with a sample player (gst-play) etc..
21:48<vektor>mdz: Well, there are a bunch of gstreamer based apps, sure. I mean, since gstreamer itself isn't an app, obviously anyone working on it is doing their own app :)
21:49<vektor>The main coder, omega, is quite smart. He did a bunch of libdv in the past.
21:49<vektor>Dunno if you know him.
21:49<mdz_>nope
21:49<vektor>taaz is working on a DVD player based on gstreamer.
21:49<vektor>Dunno if you know him :)
21:49<vektor>He's a debian type.
21:49<vektor>Does the libmpeg2 packages.
21:49<mdz_>mythtv and gatos are about the extent of my involvement in this community so far
21:49<vektor>Oh, ok. :)
21:50<vektor>I like to hang out on #gstreamer, even though I'm not using gstreamer. :)
21:50<mdz_>Maintainer: David I. Lehn <dlehn@vt.edu>
21:50<mdz_>him?
21:50<vektor>Yep.
21:50<vektor>He's also helped out with tvtime and movietime.
21:50<vektor>I have some linear blend screenshots that show where it's good and where it's bad.
21:51<vektor>Want me to post them?
21:51<mdz_>sure
21:51<mdz_>I would be interested in trying some different deinterlacing algorithms on my recordings
21:51<mdz_>to see if that makes a difference
21:52<vektor>yeah
21:52<vektor>it looks like it should be pretty easy to port tvtime algorithms into mythtv
21:53<vektor>i mean, that was the idea :)
21:53-!-billytwowilly [~chris@24.86.146.252] has joined #mythtv
21:54<mdz_>do you do any capture for your own personal viewing?
21:54<vektor>i have no app to capture with that i like :)
21:54<vektor>i started my own recorder but it's not done, and i'm busy working on tvtime
21:55<vektor>ok, ready?
21:56<mdz_>for what?
21:56<vektor>my linearblend shots
21:56<mdz_>are you going to paste the screenshots into the channel?
21:56<mdz_>:-)
21:56<vektor>no a url :)
21:56<mdz_>hit me with a URL
21:57<vektor>http://vektor.theorem.ca/graphics/deinterlacing/
21:57<vektor>first, check out 'motion-linearblend.png'
21:58<vektor>the linearblend deinterlacing algorithm is pretty neat. it's basically an aggressive blur.
21:58<vektor>but if there is fast motion, you get two ghosted images.
21:58<Chutt>yeah
21:58<vektor>you can see that very clearly on the fast-moving text.
21:58<vektor>it looks pretty crazy.
21:58<vektor>the other one is 'crazyhand-linearblend.png' i think
21:58<vektor>where this guy's hand looks seriously whack :)
21:59<vektor>but it's nice that it does sort of kill (although brutally) some of the chroma artifacts
21:59<vektor>although, i forgot to post a screenshot of linear interpolation
21:59<Chutt>it can get _really_ ghosted, depending
21:59<vektor>see, the danger is that if you're using linearblend, you're only really effectively getting 240 scanlines of information
21:59<vektor>so then why not capture at 480x240
21:59<vektor>but for still images linearblend does keep some of the data around, which is nice.
22:00<vektor>i should do a shot with alot of text.
22:00<vektor>like if you look at some of the text, like the two shots of parcells, you can see it's blurring alot.
22:00<vektor>still, blurring is just what you want for compression :)
22:01<mdz_>at 480x480, I have a ton of CPU left over
22:01<Chutt>mdz, if you had a beefy enough processor to turn on the high-quality option to libavcodec, stuff like artifacts in the background really look a lot better
22:01<mdz_>about 40%
22:01<mdz_>Chutt: interesting
22:01<Chutt>but it's a _lot_ slower
22:01<mdz_>Chutt: I wonder if I have enough juice to do that at 480x480
22:01<vektor>mdz: the CPU isn't the issue though, it's doing work that doesn't buy you anything. i'm wondering what the visible quality difference for you is with 480x480 vs 480x240.
22:01<mdz_>more than 2x?
22:02<mdz_>vektor: as I've said, it's really hard to compare side-by-side in my current setup
22:02<vektor>yeah :/
22:02<vektor>anyway, thanks for letting me add yet another deinterlacing alg to tvtime :)
22:02<vektor>it's better than linera interpolation for slightly more CPU power :)
22:02* vektorshould do an MMX version, but not based on theirs! it's nasty! :(
22:03<Chutt>vektor, it's from mplayer, btw
22:03<Chutt>and the wrapper code isn't _entirely_ correct
22:03<vektor>Chutt: Yes, I saw that, and will credit it.
22:03<vektor>it also looks like their function skips the last 8 lines.
22:03<vektor>for like no reason :)
22:03<Chutt>naw, it's probably my function
22:03<vektor>oh
22:03<mdz_>Chutt: what kind of artifacts do you see at 640x480 @ 3300kbps?
22:04<vektor>mdz: you sure the artifacts aren't on playback?
22:04<vektor>mdz: you may seriously consider a better idct
22:04<Chutt>mainly blockiness
22:04<Chutt>and bad gradients
22:05<Chutt>but the artifacts generally aren't all that bad
22:08<mdz_>the bad gradients are mostly what I see
22:08<mdz_>foreground objects look very good
22:08<mdz_>vektor: how much CPU would it cost me?
22:08<vektor>i have no clue
22:09<Chutt>in tvtime, the nice looking deinterlacers take ~30% cpu, when you include the chunk taken by X
22:09<mdz_>maybe I'll do some transcoding experiments
22:09<Chutt>on my xp1800+
22:09<mdz_>I could capture at 8mbit or so, and do a high-quality bitrate reduction
22:09<mdz_>(on the fast box)
22:10<mdz_>is there any magic to 480x480 and 640x480 other than being common?
22:11<mdz_>would there be any value in trying something in between?
22:11<mdz_>512x480, say
22:11<Chutt>depends on what the tuner will give you, really
22:11<vektor>tvtime takes a ton of cpu because it does 60fps out.
22:12<Chutt>vektor, exactly =)
22:12<mdz_>vektor: 60 full-height fps?
22:12<mdz_>that's a lot of bytes
22:13<vektor>why does mplayer have all these low pass filters for blurring?
22:13<vektor>mdz: yes, it's a ton of bytes,.
22:13<vektor>mdz: and 4:2:2 not 4:2:0.
22:13<Chutt>crappy low quality divx files, would be my guess =)
22:13<vektor>39 megabytes per second being uploaded to the video card.
22:13<vektor>Chutt: but on input or output?
22:14<vektor>like, would this just be for deblocking?
22:14<Chutt>i dunno
22:14<vektor>i think i'll go ask.
22:14<Chutt>don't they have a separate deblock/dering filter?
22:14<vektor>fucking ircnet...
22:14<vektor>i wonder if arpi is still up
22:15<Chutt>mdz, you're linked on the main page now
22:15-!-Antw73 [~ant@krynn.solace.mh.se] has joined #mythtv
22:15<mdz_>Chutt: nice
22:15<vektor>argh, arpi is idle 3hrs.
22:15<mdz_>I hope my server will weather the storm ;-)
22:16<Chutt>anything else you want me to say in the news bit?
22:16<Chutt>heh
22:16<mdz_>lemme look at it
22:16<mdz_>I'm sure it's fine
22:16<mdz_>heh. it's brief
22:16<Chutt>bandwidth is the issue, any crappy box can handle some minor web traffic
22:16<vektor>i'm also not sure why they do processing on these vertical 8x8 blocks.
22:16<billytwowilly>here's a question: will mythtv get any benefit from a 7200 rpm hard drive vs a 5400 rpm hard drive?
22:16<vektor>doesn't seem to make sense re:caching
22:16<mdz_>Chutt: I was being facetious
22:17<mdz_>Chutt: I posted a message to the mailing list with a couple of notes about the packages; you could paste that paragraph if you wanted
22:17<mdz_>or link to the mail archive
22:17<Chutt>billytwowilly, this stuff is being extremely stressful of pretty much everything in your computer, except your network card.
22:17<Chutt>i'll link to the archive
22:17<mdz_>Chutt: well, depends on your configuration
22:18<mdz_>my configuration is quite stressful on the network card :-)
22:18<Chutt>heh
22:18<Chutt>normal operation =
22:18<mdz_>billytwowilly: almost certainly yes
22:18<Chutt>err, =)
22:18<mdz_>billytwowilly: RPM translates pretty well to increased transfer rate
22:18<mdz_>billytwowilly: and video requires pretty high transfer rates
22:18<billytwowilly>ok. thanks.
22:19<Chutt>allright, now there's a link to snowman's websit for the mailing list post
22:19<Chutt>poor snowman and his idsl
22:19<mdz_>ouch
22:20<Chutt>it should be only temporary, though
22:20<mdz_>it seems to be all the rage to put full-length films on CD-Rs
22:20<mdz_>I wonder if they look like crap
22:21<Chutt>heavily compressed mpeg4, take a guess :p
22:21<mdz_>that's like 800kbit/sec
22:21<mdz_>yes, that's what they use
22:21<mdz_>800kbit/sec can't look very good
22:21<Chutt>well
22:21<Chutt>if you have good clean source material
22:22<mdz_>like DVD :-)
22:22<Chutt>right
22:22<vektor>or just blur the fuck out of your input
22:22<Chutt>the guys that made the dvds already did all the hard work for the compression
22:22<vektor>Chutt: want to help me do an MPEG2 requantizer?
22:22<mdz_>good point
22:22<mdz_>either that, or they didn't, and it looks like shit
22:22<vektor>the idea is to take a DVD and use the same motion vectors, just strip out more bits. :)
22:22<mdz_>like some DVDs do
22:23<vektor>that way you keep their expensive motion vectors but you change the bitrate, all in the compressed domain
22:23<Chutt>ah
22:23<vektor>so you can take a DVD and bring it down to like 1GB or so and keep alot of the quality without actually decoding and recompressing
22:23<mdz_>vektor: doesn't cinelerra do something like that?
22:23<vektor>shouldn't be too hard to do
22:23<vektor>mdz: i have no clue, been meaning to do this for about 2 years now :)
22:23<Chutt>heh, that'd be fairly neat -- we did stuff like that with mp3s a long while back
22:23<vektor>ah, really?
22:23<Chutt>yeah, kinda similar
22:24<vektor>i bet it would rock hard.
22:24<Chutt>eh
22:24<vektor>i bet it would be quite reasonable. :)
22:24<Chutt>i dunno
22:24<vektor>heh
22:24<Chutt>i never saw the attraction, really
22:24<vektor>what, of ripping your dvds?
22:24<Chutt>right
22:24<vektor>depends how much HD space you have...
22:24<vektor>;-)
22:24<Chutt>harddrives are dirt cheap now
22:24<vektor>yeah, but DVDs are like 8Gb each.
22:25<Chutt>i could store my entire dvd collection easily, with no recompressing
22:25<vektor>it's just excessive for some movies.
22:25<vektor>Then I guess you don't collect DVDs :)
22:25<Chutt>naw, not really =)
22:25-!-OrangeSun [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:25<Chutt>like, 40 or 50 i guess
22:25<vektor>I have almost 100 now, and I'm well behind in my group of friends.
22:25<vektor>So, I like to swap with them and keep copies of ones I don't feel the need to purchase myself.
22:25<mdz_>Chutt: you're sitting on enough disk to store 40 or 50 uncompressed DVDs?
22:26<Chutt>mdz, no, but i could buy enough easily
22:26<vektor>The other recompression thing I really want to do is to take an interlaced DVD and recompress it, fixing pulldown.
22:26<mdz_>ah
22:26<vektor>mdz: how many gigs do you have in total?
22:26<vektor>HDs are insanely cheap.
22:26<mdz_>vektor: hmm...total?
22:26<vektor>i just picked up another 80Gb a few weeks ago
22:26<vektor>yeah
22:26<mdz_>vektor: or total online?
22:26<Chutt>especially when you look at those new bigass maxtors =)
22:26<vektor>total at home
22:26<mdz_>I have several stacks of 4 and 9 gb disks doing nothing
22:26<vektor>Chutt: hell yea!!
22:27<vektor>yeah oh, i guess i meant hooked up
22:27<vektor>old disks don't count :)
22:27<mdz_>I have 80GB IDE + 4GB SCSI in this machine
22:27<vektor>ah
22:27<mdz_>those disks are ultra SCSI disks, not too old
22:27<vektor>i have 170Gb on this machine.
22:27<mdz_>it's just way too loud to have them all spinning
22:27<vektor>no SCSI though :(
22:27<mdz_>I have an 8-bay tower which I had mostly full of those 7200rpm disks
22:27<mdz_>it made it hard to think in the room
22:28<vektor>hah
22:29<mdz_>I'll probably get another big cheap IDE for mythtv one of these days
22:29<mdz_>I'm a slave to ide for bulk storage, it's so cheap
22:30<mdz_>but they're a pain in the ass, especially if you need more than 2
22:30<vektor>woop, tvtime webcam time!
22:30<Chutt>now that's the kind of bug report i like
22:30<Chutt>'shall i try to reproduce it to get any more data?'
22:31<mdz_>the 'try to reproduce it' stage comes before the 'report a bug' phase
22:31<Chutt>well, in that case
22:31<vektor>WOW! deinterlacing algorithms give coool feedback patterns
22:32<Chutt>the report was plenty detailed
22:36<mdz_>heh, libavcodec refers to the high quality stuff as "non real time"
22:36<Chutt>yeah
22:36<Chutt>because, well, it's not =)
22:36<Chutt>i need to update my copy of that
22:36<Chutt>since they made the 'force an I frame' stuff nicer
22:37<mdz_>it needs more frequent releases
22:37<mdz_>I don't remember the last release
22:37<Chutt>they're getting ready for one
22:38<vektor>http://vektor.theorem.ca/graphics/deinterlacing/
22:38<mdz_>Chutt: I think you said that distributed encoding was the next thing you were interested in working on, is that still true?
22:38<vektor>see the *.jpg in there
22:39<vektor>that's my reet deinterlacing setup :)
22:39<Chutt>mdz, well, encoding on one box, playback on another
22:39<vektor>Chutt: that makes tons of sense.
22:39<mdz_>Chutt: right
22:39<Chutt>yeah
22:39<Chutt>tiny small _quiet_ box in the living room =)
22:40<Chutt>big monster beefy box elsewhere
22:40<mdz_>but the monster beefy box will have the capture card?
22:40<vektor>y'know, i don't know what the whole noise thing is about
22:40<vektor>my PC is right beside my couch and it isn't very loud
22:40<Chutt>with the ability to add multiple things of both
22:40<Chutt>vektor, you don't have a new machine
22:40<Chutt>recent cpu's put out a shitton of heat
22:40<mdz_>vektor: my box has only two moving parts, a quiet PSU fan and a quiet CPU fan
22:40<vektor>Chutt: it's pretty new!
22:40<mdz_>vektor: and my girlfriend still complains about the noise
22:40<Chutt>this xp 1800+ easily heats my office
22:41<vektor>Chutt: i think that's cause amd is on crack
22:41<Chutt>naw
22:41<vektor>my brother also has an amd and it's insanely hot
22:41<Chutt>p4s aren't much cooler now
22:41<vektor>but my box is also right by the window
22:41<Chutt>they're a little cooler, but not all that much
22:41<vektor>and we keep it open sometimes
22:41<vektor>did you see the pics of my living room? :)
22:41<Chutt>heh
22:41<Chutt>yeah
22:41<vektor>the amiga monitor is coool for TV out. ;-)
22:42<mdz_>if I were to move the capture card to the beefy machine, that would mean moving the digital tuner out of the living room
22:42<Chutt>amoeba
22:42<Chutt>mdz, yeah
22:42<vektor>i should get a digital tuner
22:42<Chutt>there is that
22:42<vektor>see what the fuss is
22:42<mdz_>that would be sub-optimal
22:42<mdz_>vektor: fuss?
22:42<Chutt>about digital cable?
22:43<vektor>just being silly :)
22:43<vektor>digital cable sucks
22:43<Chutt>it's overcompressed mpeg2
22:43<Chutt>=)
22:43<vektor>i really want the dish network
22:43<mdz_>what's better about dish network?
22:43<Chutt>so you can get even more overcompressed mpeg2?
22:43<vektor>well, more channels here
22:43<vektor>i want cartoon network
22:43<Chutt>the only thing dish has going is they have more hdtv channels
22:43* vektorin canada, remember?
22:43<Chutt>ah
22:43<Chutt>heh
22:43<vektor>US channels rock
22:43<vektor>i want nasa
22:43<vektor>badly
22:43<Chutt>and dish charges like $10 a month for discovery HD
22:43<mdz_>vektor: nasa is free
22:44<mdz_>vektor: it's not even encrypted, you could steal it legally :-)
22:44<vektor>mdz: i have no BUD
22:44<Chutt>the nasa channel's boring most of the time, too
22:44<Chutt>:p
22:44<mdz_>...500 guys behind a desk...one guy in space...repeat for 4 hours
22:44<vektor>yea it's cooool:)
22:44<mdz_>well, yeah, it is
22:44<Chutt>every now and then there's something interesting going on
22:44<mdz_>but it's boring-cool
22:45<vektor>well at least you guys have the option
22:45<Chutt>mdz, also added a link down by the download section =)
22:45<Chutt>maybe that'll get some people to contribute rpms or some crap
22:45<mdz_>when I was trying to figure out what hardware to use where in this project, someone suggested I get one of those Rabbit wireless video repeater dealies
22:45<mdz_>that use RF or whatever
22:45<mdz_>Chutt: somebody was talking on the list about a gentoo bit
22:45<Chutt>but now i can say 'use debian' to those who have install troubles
22:45<Chutt>yeah
22:46<Chutt>but gentoo's, like, silly
22:46<mdz_>there is that
22:46<mdz_>but you could say the same for a lot of RPM-based distributions
22:46<vektor>gentoo broke tvtime
22:46<vektor>seems to install with preemptive kernel patches applied
22:46<vektor>and they break the bttv driver
22:46<Chutt>ah
22:46<Chutt>heh
22:46<vektor>have you guys seen that?
22:46<Chutt>nope
22:46<vektor>hrm
22:46<mdz_>Chutt: so if someone is having trouble downloading and installing mythtv, they would be able to handle dbootstrap?
22:46<vektor>maybe it was just this fucked dude
22:46<Chutt>i don't think anyone's mentioned that on the list
22:47<Chutt>mdz, yeah, true
22:47<mdz_>they do patch the hell out of their kernel
22:47<mdz_>it has EVMS and XFS and whatnot
22:47<Chutt>that big old barrier to entry called the 'debian installer'
22:47<mdz_>a lot of BIG patches
22:47<vektor>yeah i don't understand gentoo at all
22:47<Chutt>'but debian is for sysadmins!!'
22:47<vektor>and this linux HTPC forum people are like 'i'm new to linux and am thinking of installing something like debian or gentoo for my HTPC'
22:48<vektor>and i'm like WTF?! why are these ppl considering gentoo?!?
22:48<Chutt>hehe
22:48<Chutt>vektor, well, that guy actually has linux experience
22:48<Chutt>and can code, too
22:48<mdz_>vektor: d00d, you can compile ur copy of tar with -march=my-kewl-cpu -O999 -funroll-all-loops!!
22:48<mdz_>vektor: it runs 0.00001% faster and segfaults daily
22:48<Chutt>if you're talking about who i think you are
22:48<vektor>like suddenly it's the cool thing to run, while if you sit on #xfree86 for about three seconds you see a million people join with the _most_fucked_up_problems_ever_ and _no_fucking_clue_
22:49<vektor>(and all running gentoo)
22:49<vektor>ugh.
22:49<vektor>or LFS ;-)
22:49<mdz_>vektor: it looks like something intended for people who want to mess around with their system, but ended up being used by every kiddie who wants to run linux
22:49<Chutt>it's just the new 'cool' distribution
22:49<Chutt>slack -> redhat -> debian -> mandrake -> gentoo
22:49<mdz_>you forgot SLS :-P
22:49<Chutt>ya ya
22:49<Chutt>that's just what i've seen
22:50<Chutt>:p
22:50<mdz_>debian-installer has the potential to be a hell of a lot friendlier
22:50<mdz_>sometime in 2004
22:50<Chutt>riight
22:50<vektor>haha
22:50<mdz_>I should shut up and help with it
22:50<Chutt>there was going to be a nice gui frontend to apt shortly after apt was released, too
22:51<Chutt>=)
22:51<vektor>Chutt: you should try linearblend in tvtime, you might like it :)
22:51<Chutt>sure, i'll check it out next time i do an update
22:51<vektor>i should do an 'aggressive-temporal-blur' filter :)
22:51<vektor>oh, um, yeah don't update
22:51* vektoris totally breaking stuff sill.
22:51<Chutt>oh, heh =)
22:51<vektor>using the new frequencies stuff. it's coool.
22:51<Chutt>ah
22:51<vektor>i also handle channels with no tuner alot better.
22:51<Chutt>if you get that working right and all, i may steal it
22:51<vektor>nifty state machine.
22:52<mdz_>but I find that I have no problem with the current installer
22:52<vektor>yeah i think it might be worth it.
22:52<Chutt>mdz, i had a bad time getting debian onto my mythtv machine
22:52<vektor>Chutt: but wait a bit. i'll let you know when it's worth it.
22:52<mdz_>I did two installs last week, and they went really, really fast
22:52<Chutt>mdz, and before that, had a horribly time getting it on my laptop
22:52<Chutt>which were my last two installs
22:52<mdz_>what broke?
22:53<Chutt>but the laptop was a year and a half ago
22:53<Chutt>well
22:53<Chutt>cfdisk completely broke the partition tables on my mythtv box
22:53<mdz_>I install debian all the time, so I'm conditioned
22:53<Chutt>i had things setup before hand, using partition magic
22:54<mdz_>if you had things setup before hand, why run cfdisk at all?
22:54<Chutt>well, i didn't have everything setup =)
22:54<mdz_>DOS partition tables suck
22:54<Chutt>so that necessitated a re-install
22:54<Chutt>since it happily installed to a totally broken partition
22:55<Chutt>there was some other broken stuff, too, but i forget now
22:55<mdz_>cfdisk certainly sucks in a lot of ways, but I have never heard of it actually breaking anything before
22:55<Chutt>oh, i'm just lucky
22:56<mdz_>there is a guy at work who runs a lot of the same applications that I do, and manages to get them to crash several times per day
22:56<mdz_>stuff like mozilla and galeon
22:56<mdz_>that kind of 'lucky'?
22:56<mdz_>while my instances of the same versions of the same software run for weeks
22:56<Chutt>yeah
22:56<Chutt>well
22:56<mdz_>he runs xinerama, though
22:56<mdz_>which is the source of a lot of his problems
22:56<Chutt>i don't have problems with running stuff, generally
22:56<Chutt>just getting things installed =)
22:56<vektor>I should have better xinerama support in tvtime for X fullscreen modes...
22:56<vektor>Chutt: are you still using that XJ code?
22:57<Chutt>yeah
22:57<Chutt>well, mostly
22:57<Chutt>i wrapped it more in a class
22:57<vektor>ok.
22:57<vektor>ah.
22:57<Chutt>so it could be replaced at will
22:57<Chutt>with something else
22:57<vektor>i kinda looked at some of your code
22:57<vektor>but i got some _Great_ code from ogle
22:57<Chutt>i didn't write the XJ stuff, though
22:57<Chutt>=)
22:57<vektor>that was really modular, for doing fullscreen support
22:57<Chutt>it's nasty
22:57<vektor>yeah i know.
22:57<vektor>anyway, i have an xv output module in CVS tvtime now.
22:57<Chutt>but apparently its like a decade old, so it's allowed to be crufty
22:57<Chutt>ah, cool.
22:58<vektor>doesn't support xshm, dunno if XJ.cpp did
22:58<Chutt>is there really any reason to talk xv directly?
22:58<Chutt>since you're using sdl and all
22:58<vektor>well, how else would you talk to it?
22:58<vektor>oh, as opposed to sdl?
22:58<Chutt>right
22:58<Chutt>the xj stuff does do shm
22:58<vektor>well, i was trying to experiment with some performance options
22:58<Chutt>ah
22:58<vektor>and have a bit more control over stuff like resizing
22:58<vektor>SDL's windowed mode isn't really, well, very robust
22:58<Chutt>heh
22:58<vektor>and #sdl was like 'SDL window mode is more for debug than anything'
22:58<vektor>and i'm like, ugh... this just isn't for me.
22:59<vektor>the other thing was that yeah, i was hoping to get better performance.
22:59<vektor>it hasn't really happened though.
22:59<vektor>i saw about 5% speedup on my blits but it seems to be gone now, and i don't know why :)
22:59<vektor>more experimentation required :)
22:59<vektor>oh, also sdl didn't let me set Xv attributes like brightness/contrast
23:00<vektor>so now i can add that too.
23:00<vektor>now _that_ will be confusing for users: two brightness/contrast controls!
23:00<Chutt>heh
23:01<mdz_>NuppelVideoPlayer::GetFrame is pretty heavy
23:01<mdz_>I wonder which parts are taking time
23:01<Chutt>the decoder
23:01<mdz_>it's pretty big
23:01<mdz_>the decoder is in another function, no?
23:01<Chutt>and copying the frame out of the decoder's function
23:01<Chutt>decodeframe
23:02<Chutt>ah
23:02<mdz_>yeah, decodeframe shows up with less time accumulated though
23:02<Chutt>the audio decoder is in getframe, though
23:03<mdz_>lame_decode?
23:03<Chutt>yup
23:04<mdz_>I've gotta go to bed
23:04<mdz_>I want my 10% back though :-)
23:04<Chutt>heh
23:04<Chutt>g'nite =)
23:04<brtb>mdz - i dunno where your 10% went but I gained 20% somehow
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