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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2002-11-17

00:08<Soopaman>what does that do?
00:09<Soopaman>Chutt, you around?
00:09<Soopaman>vektor, you may be able to help me with it also
00:13<Soopaman>in order to "optimize" your tvtime or mythtv for a mpeg2 hardware tv tuner card, would the optimizations be in the application, or the linux device drivers
00:13<mdz_>Soopaman: optimizations?
00:14<mdz_>Soopaman: you mean besides writing support for a hardware encoder?
00:15<vektor>Soopaman: There's definitely something 'missing' in your question.
00:15<vektor>Do you have an MPEG2 hardware encoder card?
00:18<Soopaman>mdz, vektor, what i want to do is the tivo model
00:18<vektor>You have an MPEG2 encoder card?
00:18<paperclip>heh
00:18<Soopaman>of taking all video encoding/decoding routines off the cpu and onto the card
00:19<vektor>Using what hardware?
00:19<Soopaman>vektor, in a few weeks i will have one
00:19<vektor>Which one?
00:19<vektor>Are you writing a driver for it?
00:19<paperclip>i think your best be would be something like the buz =)
00:19<Soopaman>it's NDA
00:19<Soopaman>the buz?
00:19<vektor>He means the Iomega buz.
00:19<paperclip>external device..
00:19<vektor>Obsolete hardware mjpeg encoder.
00:19<paperclip>obsolete?
00:19<vektor>Does iomega even exist anymore?
00:20<Soopaman>oh
00:20<paperclip>yeah..
00:20<Soopaman>heheh
00:20<vektor>I thought those were unavailable except from ebay.
00:20<paperclip>they do sans and the new zip 750mb
00:20<vektor>Yeah but no more buz.
00:20<paperclip>mabye so..
00:20<vektor>Anyway.
00:20<Soopaman>so...
00:20<vektor>Soopaman: So, you're writing a driver for a hardware encoder board?
00:20<paperclip>doesn't mean it's not a viable hardware capture solution..
00:21<vektor>paperclip: Not if I have to find one used.
00:21<Soopaman>vektor, no they have one
00:21<Soopaman>for linux
00:21<paperclip>what about the matrox boards..
00:21<vektor>Soopaman: And so you're writing support in mythtv for it?
00:21<paperclip>i don't know if they sell them with mjpeg anymore..
00:21<Soopaman>i was wondering
00:22<Soopaman>can't a brother ask questions without getting the 3rd degree?
00:22<Soopaman>:P
00:22<bigguy>heh
00:22<Soopaman>"hypothetically"
00:22<vektor>I'm just curious.
00:22<vektor>Because your question sort of implied something existed.
00:22<vektor>And I was wondering if it did. :)
00:22<Soopaman>heheh
00:22<Soopaman>in due time
00:23<Soopaman>but could you answer the question mr president? :P
00:23<vektor>'Optimization' means you have something and make it faster.
00:23<vektor>I don't understand the question.
00:24<Soopaman>what would it take to take the software mpeg2 encoding/decooding in mythtv/tvtime off of the cpu, and onto the gfx card
00:24<vektor>Is your question "what could mythtv do to get better performance with a hardware mpeg encoder board if i had a hardware mpeg encoder board and it had some drivers and if mythtv used those drivers"?
00:24<vektor>Oh.
00:24<vektor>So your question is "what would it take for mythv to support an extern mpeg2 encoder"?
00:24<Soopaman>kinda, but use it exclusively
00:24<vektor>tvtime does no encoding or decoding, we do processing on the raw video stream, so we can't work with MPEG.
00:25<vektor>Hardware MPEG decoders suck too because then I can't draw an OSD onto it.
00:25<vektor>Well unless they provide some OSD API, and I guess most kinda do.
00:25<vektor>But the drivers would have to support that too.
00:25<paperclip>heh..
00:25<vektor>Dunno.
00:25<paperclip>what's up with mjpeg? same?
00:25<vektor>Difficult question to answer without knowing more about what the hardware is capable of doing.
00:26<vektor>paperclip: MJPEG isn't well standardized and kinda depends on your card. MJPEG just seems to be video frames with JPEG compression on them, no inter-frame compression. But I don't know much about it.
00:26<Soopaman>just theoretics
00:28<paperclip>which mpeg2 boards work with linux?
00:28<paperclip>i can only find mpeg1 and mjpeg
00:28<vektor>paperclip: Encoder or decoder?
00:30<bigguy>wow
00:30<paperclip>both =)
00:30<paperclip>i'd also prefer a hardware solution =)
00:30<vektor>There's the dxr2 and dxr3 cards which have some drivers. There was also a guy I met who did a driver for a PCMCIA hardware MPEG decoder.
00:31<paperclip>hmm..
00:31<vektor>The nVidia binary drivers support hardware-assisted MPEG decoding using XvMC apparently.
00:31<paperclip>well. that's out.. =)
00:31<paperclip>so there are no encoders, eh?
00:31<vektor>Well.
00:31<vektor>there's this kfir chip that's in some european card.
00:31<vektor>It's apparently working.
00:32<vektor>And some guys I met were doing a PVR driver.
00:32<vektor>But I don't know how far they got.
00:32<vektor>Like the WinPVR or whatver.
00:32<vektor>There was some other code for that around.
00:32<vektor>Again, it was sort of kinda half somewhere in June but I don't know how much further they got.
00:33<paperclip>hmm.. my ultimate platform would be some of the new mini-ITX stuff coming out with a hardware encoder/decoder
00:34<paperclip>they are small/quiet/efficient
00:35<paperclip>aren't the athlon based mythTV boxes loud?
00:35<bigguy>nope
00:36<bigguy>just depends on your cooling
00:37<bigguy>couple of panaflo L1A 120's and a single 80mm on the hs running at 7v shouldn't be noticeable
00:38<bigguy>course my workstation is loud as heck only because I have a delta HO 80mm on the heatsink
00:38<bigguy>80 something cfms of coolness
00:38* awis hoping for something like paperclip is after... don't want all that extra heat in the stero cabinet even if it is quiet
00:38<paperclip>hmm.. still putting off loads of heat.. which means it's eating tons of power..
00:39<paperclip>for a device that's supposed to be on 24/7 that's not so hot...
00:39<aw>the epia-m that's coming out claims it has decoding, dunno what linux support is though
00:39<bigguy>aw: there is no support for it YET
00:39<aw>figured
00:39<paperclip>i wonder about that too..
00:40<bigguy>I have a nice case to put my pvr in got room for a 120mm fan + rad at the front
00:40<aw>seem like a tulatine based celron w/ micro atx is about as small/cool as you can get right now
00:40<bigguy>using a laptop dvd and laptop hdd for the boot drive
00:41<bigguy>and a nice 20x4 VFD :)
00:41<paperclip>aren't the p4's pretty good with power?
00:41<aw>not according to their datasheet
00:41<dmz>p4's suck a good bit of power
00:41<dmz>they just dont fry
00:41<paperclip>i thought they were in the 40w area
00:41<bigguy>the newer p4's ary about on par with the xp's
00:42<paperclip>what's the tulatine using?
00:42<aw>a C3 would be nice, but I doubt they can cut it w/o hw encode/decode, can anyone confirm?
00:42<dmz>paperclip: like 20w
00:42<aw>@900MHz - 26W; @1.4GHz - 35W
00:42<bigguy>c3 900 is about the same as a cel450 or 500
00:43<dmz>aw: for a tualatin? i thought it was a bit less than that
00:43<paperclip>aw: i don't think they can.. they barely do dvd without hardware..
00:43<aw>dmz: just printed out that page of the datasheet...
00:44<paperclip>i have an epia-5000 (533mhz) it's silent..
00:44<paperclip>the only moving parts are the buttons on the front of the case..
00:45<paperclip>linitx.org has/is a forum for linux/mini-ITX stuff
00:46<dmz>i wish i could get heatpipes
00:46<paperclip>quite a few there are struggling with dvd playback..
00:47<aw>some friends just got a couple epia-5000s, they are _really_ cool boards
00:47* awwishes they were faster
00:48<paperclip>PXE boot is nifty
00:48<dmz>in my experience fans are alright if you keep them under 2000 rpm
00:49<dmz>pabst has some either 1200 or 1500rpm one
00:49<dmz>thats rated 12dba
00:51<paperclip>still all that "silent" gear is spendy..
00:51<dmz>http://www.plycon.com/fans/papst80_12dba.htm
00:51<paperclip>may as well cough up for a hardware solution..
00:51<paperclip>=)
00:53<aw>the zalman "flower" heatsinks are quite a bit cheaper than I remember... assuming they fit in a tiny case
00:54<paperclip>zalmans are nice..
00:54<dmz>i guess you could alway water cool everything
00:54<dmz>always
00:54<paperclip>yeah.. but that's even more money =)
00:55<dmz>i guess i need to make the first water cooled psu
00:55<aw>and a pump to keep quiet
00:55<dmz>a good pump is the expensive part
00:55<dmz>about $200
00:55<dmz>for one that will last forever
00:56<paperclip>so what do you figure the cheapest "usable" mythtv box to be?
00:56<paperclip>~$500 ?
00:58<mdz_>a water cooled psu sounds like an accident waiting to happen :-)
00:58<paperclip>aren't there non-conductive fluids..
00:58<dmz>mdz: i did a watercooled pentium before it was "cool" to do it
00:58<paperclip>well.. electrically conductive..
00:59<dmz>DI water
00:59<dmz>but you cant really run that in metal pipes
01:00<dmz>it eats them
01:00<dmz>alcohol maybe
01:00<paperclip>hmm.. works in my pipes..
01:01<dmz>paperclip: ultrapure water has a tendency to eat metal
01:01<paperclip>i ment alcohol
01:01<paperclip>for my pipes =)
01:02<dmz>if i ever did a watercooled system all the pipes would be brazed
01:02<paperclip>that's a weird thing..
01:02<dmz>copper
01:03<dmz>even if you fuckup nothing can leak from that
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01:04<paperclip>are you running mythtv?
01:04<dmz>not yet
01:05<paperclip>i'm really curious what sort of hardware ppl are using..
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01:05<dmz>yea, there needs to be a list of working hardware
01:05<dmz>or something
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01:05<paperclip>yeah.. something..
01:06<bigguy>argh
01:06<bigguy>I have a tualatin cel 1.2 but I dunno about its pvr capabilities
01:06<aw>1.4GHz T-bird here, too big/noisy/hot, but it works
01:06<bigguy>Well I was going to build a 1600+ based machine
01:07<bigguy>just need a mobo
01:07<paperclip>i'm just looking at cost/cost to operate vs. cost to buy better hardware..
01:07<bigguy>but I have a new cel 1.2 and mobo
01:07<bigguy>just dunno if the cel has enough power to do it
01:07<paperclip>_shad was using a p2/350 for low quality video..
01:07<paperclip>dunno how well..
01:08<bigguy>hmm
01:08<Chutt>bigguy, should run decently enough
01:08<Chutt>480x480 with good quality video, at the least
01:09<bigguy>got 1 gig of pc133 to go in it also but dunno how much of a difference that makes on pvr
01:09<Chutt>fast ram helps =)
01:09<Chutt>but that much doesn't relly make much of a difference, really
01:09<paperclip>what is fast?
01:09<Chutt>ddr
01:09<paperclip>mkay
01:09<dmz>rdram
01:09<Chutt>rdram would be even better
01:10<bigguy>well the board I have only takes pc133 and I'm not buying another board
01:10<dmz>intel needs to hurry with their new chipsets
01:10<bigguy>the proc was given to me unused by my uncle
01:10<paperclip>try it.. i'd like to know how well it works =)
01:11<bigguy>he was gonna use it in his sons comp but his son wanted a 2000+ machine like mine
01:11<bigguy>heh
01:12<bigguy>How to make a SFF machine into a leaf blower
01:12<bigguy>http://www.2cooltek.com/minisys.html
01:12<aw>anybody know if tv-out on the savage4 works?
01:12<bigguy>hmm
01:12<paperclip>aw: you thinking about the new epia?
01:13<bigguy>I have a couple of cards with tv out one is a trident based and the other is a radeon 7000 DDR 64meg
01:13<aw>no, was looking at the shuttle sv25... a cube is not my first choice, but I don't know where I'm gonna find low-profile plates for cards
01:13<bigguy>anyone know about the tv out support on the radeon 7000 in linux?
01:14<aw>nope, have some at work, but I've never tried tv-out
01:14<bigguy>k
01:14<paperclip>bigguy: gatos.sf.net
01:16<bigguy>paperclip: hmm that looks like its just for using the tv in stuff
01:17<paperclip>bigguy: i thought they listed the tvout stuff with the status for each card..
01:18<bigguy>hmm
01:18<bigguy>see AIW cards listed but not a regulare 7000
01:19<bigguy>course there wasn't a 7000 AIW to my knowledge
01:19<paperclip>ahh..
01:19<paperclip>this may help.. "To enable TV-out: connect your TV to the computer. Turn the computer on, or, if it was running, reboot it."
01:19<paperclip>most likely the same..
01:20<bigguy>I know in XP with the drivers I have you can use the tv as a second monitor
01:21<paperclip>dunno.. i'm pretty sure the trident is either/or in linux..
01:21<paperclip>like that helps =)
01:22<bigguy>well its a pci card never used it tho
01:22<bigguy>it has a jumper on it for vga or tv tho
01:22<aw>tv-out on the sv25 appears to be controlled by the bios, so I'd guess it's invisible where it's going
01:24<bigguy>I have 2 tv cards also one is a wintv go mono bt878 and the other is a STB bt848 card
01:24<bigguy>dunno if the stb is stereo or mono
01:29<paperclip>what's dbx Stereo mean anyway..
01:29<paperclip>i see that on some wintv cards..
01:32<bigguy>wish whoeve had this stb card before me had left the stickers on it so I could find the model
01:33<aw>paperclip: so the shuttle cube looks like a good starting point, that comes to ~$270 (w/ 1.1GHZ Celeron & Zalman)... add tv card, mem, disk, etc...
01:33<paperclip>is there an FCC id on those things..
01:33<paperclip>aw: not too shabby.. that's a nice looking box..
01:34<bigguy>1X0-0451-001 I think
01:35<paperclip>http://www.fcc.gov/oet/fccid/
01:37<paperclip>i don't think that's a valid/whole number
01:40<bigguy>stb tvi30 with Temic tuner
01:40<paperclip>coo
01:40<paperclip>l
01:40<paperclip>=)
01:42<bigguy>but I don't find much info :(
01:42<paperclip>http://www.mail-archive.com/video4linux-list@redhat.com/msg03233.html
01:42<bigguy>looks like it was an oem for gateway
01:43<paperclip>yeah..
01:43<bigguy>saw that one
01:43<paperclip>which == sux
01:45<bigguy>its old and out dated
01:48<paperclip>yeah.. the wintv 401 looks like the "better" bttv board..
01:48<paperclip>with fm and dbx stereo .. whatever that is..
01:48<bigguy>wow
01:49<bigguy>The wintv go I have has btaudio support it looks like
01:50<paperclip>is that good?
01:51<bigguy>yeah means I don't need the soundcard line in to record
01:52<paperclip>oh..
01:52<paperclip>i wonder if the 401 has that?
01:52<bigguy>uses a conexant Fusion 878A chip which is basicly a bt878
01:54<bigguy>hmm
01:55<bigguy>paperclip: can't find any info but I think that may be the same card as Chutt's
01:55<bigguy>could be wrong tho
01:56<paperclip>hmm..
01:56<bigguy>whats wintv's official name for it?
01:56<bigguy>WinTV Radio?
01:57<bigguy>yeah
01:58<bigguy>401 is the same as what Chutt has
01:58<bigguy>and it has btaudio support
01:59<paperclip>cool
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01:59<paperclip>have a look at this.. http://www.mail-archive.com/video4linux-list@redhat.com/msg03360.html
01:59<bigguy>but he said "Only the digital output seems to work, at 32kHz, stereo, 16bit."
01:59<paperclip>hmm..
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02:00<paperclip>i don't have any digital stuffs..
02:00<paperclip>audio stuffs that is..
02:00<Chutt>the digital dsp device.
02:02<bigguy>Chutt your pvr machine also your workstation/developer box?
02:03<Chutt>yeah
02:03<bigguy>ok
02:03<bigguy>I might just put that tv card back in here then
02:03<Chutt>it's so much faster than the box i was using for work, i just use it for it, too
02:03<bigguy>need to clear off some of my drives
02:03<paperclip>interesting that they have the winpvr 250 drivers for linux now
02:04<bigguy>how good is the deinterlacing in myth?
02:04<Chutt>ever used mplayer's linear blend filter?
02:04<bigguy>the dscaler program sucks butt on windows
02:05<bigguy>Chutt: no
02:05<Chutt>ah, well, same as that.
02:05<paperclip>heh
02:05<bigguy>I have too many cards in this box
02:06<paperclip>Chutt: did you see this -> http://www.mail-archive.com/video4linux-list@redhat.com/msg03360.html
02:06<bigguy>modem,ata133,scsi,wintv go all pci
02:07<Chutt>paperclip, you'll also notice that no-one ever says they work :p
02:07<paperclip>Chutt: well.. they've only been out for 2 weeks or so..
02:07<Chutt>they're not drivers for the card.
02:07<paperclip>well.. actually since 7/2/2002
02:07<paperclip>for the mpeg2 encoder..
02:08<paperclip>on the card..
02:08<Chutt>they're not redistributable, either
02:08<paperclip>oh?
02:08<Chutt>so, no go.
02:08<bigguy>got 2 60 gigs in raid 0 on the onboard raid (dunno how well this raid chipset works in linux) got a 30gig,cdrw,20gig,and 12gig on the onboard ide and a 80 gig on the ata133 card
02:08<paperclip>you distribute drivers for other cards?
02:09<bigguy>dvd in this machine is a 4x scsi
02:10<bigguy>Chutt: you using the raid in linux?
02:10<Chutt>nope
02:10<bigguy>man
02:10<Chutt>just got a single 80 gigger in there for now
02:12<bigguy>been using the 2x60gig raid0 for dvd rips copy several over at a time and the transcode them to divx at my leisure
02:15<bigguy>any clue as to how much the multiple cards on the pci bus will mess with the tv capture?
02:16<paperclip>not much... IIRC some of the wintv stuff list a p90 as a requirement..
02:16<paperclip>dma busmastering..
02:18<paperclip>damn.. there are nda notices all over these docs..
02:18<paperclip>for the itvc15
02:20<paperclip>this stuff must be used in some linux based product..
02:21<paperclip>they spent waaay too much time on these docs..
02:24<bigguy>well as soon as this compressabilty test finishes and I setup the encode on these movies I am going to bed so I'm gonna go ahead and get off irc and such so I won't get pulled into more conversation ;)
02:24<bigguy>later
02:25<paperclip>adios
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02:41<paperclip>hmm.. http://www.sigmadesigns.com/news/press_releases/021114.htm
02:41<paperclip>maybe that's why replaytv and tivo are getting cheaper
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06:58<nevertheless>juhuuu, now it worked with audio, too. Im getting closer to a usable mythtv installation :-)
06:59<paperclip>=)
07:04<nevertheless>but how can i make it work with xinerama
07:05<nevertheless>now it spans over my three monitors, only showing the picture on the first one, thats a quite bad idea ;-)
07:05<paperclip>heh..
07:58<nevertheless>hmm, when I start a 2nd xserver (without xinerama) and start mythfrontend there, I can start watching tv, but after opening the tvscreen, i cannot do a single input anymore.
07:58<nevertheless>I cannot switch channels and stuff
08:25<nevertheless>brb
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09:37<dmz>still no lirc.org
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11:15<nevertheless>great, now mythtv really works, now I just nead the new computer :-)
11:17<nevertheless>Chutt: you and all people who helped produced a really neat and usable tool :-)
11:21<dmz>what kinda ir remote can i buy that will work with lirc?
11:21<dmz>something i can pickup today at office depot, etc
11:22<nevertheless>almost every remote works with lirc, don't they?
11:23<dmz>well, if there page was up maybe i could look.. heh
11:24<nevertheless>maybe this could help you: http://web.archive.org/web/*/www.lirc.org
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14:07<sefudier>hey guys.. what kind of system is needed to do 640x480 and above in mythtv ?
14:08<nevertheless>my athlon 800 takes 480 rtjpeg compression with about 95%cpu
14:09<sefudier>ic.. i wonder if a athlon 1.2 would be able to do 640x480 ?
14:09<sefudier>is it possible to do higher resolutions? or is that the max
14:11<nevertheless>i think, you can do more than that, but unfortunatly Im new to mythtv, too. today was the first day I got it really working...
14:11<nevertheless>but very soon Ill buy a new little xp 1700+ or so and run it on that
14:21<sefudier>ok
14:21<sefudier>to fill my database
14:21<sefudier>i have to run mythfilldatabase, then mythfilldata?
14:21<sefudier>there's no mythfilldata in my system
14:22<nevertheless>now, just do mythfilldatabase
14:22<nevertheless>where do you have the idea about mythfilldata?
14:22<sefudier>README
14:22<sefudier>once you run mythfilldatabase
14:23<sefudier>does it take some time running?
14:23<sefudier>or is it instanteneous
14:23<nevertheless>it takes some time, about 30 seconds on a german 7 day setup using about 30 channels
14:24<sefudier>ok, thanks
14:24<nevertheless>probably this is a typo in the READMY
14:24<nevertheless>README ;-)
14:24<paperclip>how does 480x480 look ?
14:25<paperclip>I'm curious how it compares to some commercial PVRs..
14:25<nevertheless>ok, my tv-card only supports 384x288, so it wouldn't do anything goin higher
14:25<paperclip>which card is that?
14:26<nevertheless>a haupauge pci card
14:26<paperclip>really..
14:26<paperclip>I'm about to bid on some model 401's
14:26<paperclip>that's the wintv-radio unit
14:27<nevertheless>yes, I think Im going to buy a new one too, so that I have two cards, since the one Im using now, is only mono
14:28<paperclip>is yours really old?
14:28<nevertheless>I bought it used, its maybe 3 of 4 years old
14:28<paperclip>hmm..
14:28<paperclip>bbiaf
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14:53<sefudier>hey guys
14:55<sefudier>can anyone send me your ~/.mythtv/default.xmltv ?
14:55<nevertheless>i don't have such a file
14:55<sefudier>you must have named your source some other name?
14:56<sefudier>dont you have ~/.mythtv/*.xmltv ?
14:56<nevertheless>no
14:56<nevertheless>no, just .mythv/channels/
14:56<sefudier>really?
14:56<nevertheless>yes :-)
14:57<sefudier>do ou have any files in .mythtv?
14:57<nevertheless>chris@luna:~> dir .mythtv/
14:57<nevertheless>total 1
14:57<nevertheless>drwxr-xr-x 2 chris users 768 Nov 17 18:06 channels
14:57<sefudier>weird :/
14:57<nevertheless>all the configuration files are only in /usr/local/share/mytht
14:57<nevertheless>v
14:58<paperclip>dir ?
14:58<paperclip>=)
14:59<nevertheless>this is left from my suse times ;-)
14:59<paperclip>oh.. they did that?
14:59<sefudier>arg.. i wonder how tthe hell should my parser output the info in xml for mythfilldatabase to accept it
14:59<nevertheless>sefudier: what?
15:00<nevertheless>paperclip: yes, they try to make it as easy as possible for ex M$
15:00<paperclip>nevertheless: heh.. i'm used to debian which is quite the opposite =)
15:02<nevertheless>SuSE was really nice for me comming from windows some (...) time ago and friends of mine used it, but after realizing, that updating is almost unpossible, and i switched to gentoo
15:02<nevertheless>debian is the system my router will run, soo
15:02<nevertheless>n
15:03<paperclip>yeah.. i'm using debian for production stuff.. and gentoo for desktop/fun
15:04<mdz_>nevertheless: that file should have been created when you initally set up your channels
15:04<paperclip>i plan on checking out the BSDs tho for the production side aswell..
15:04<mdz_>nevertheless: when you ran mythfilldatabase --manual
15:04<nevertheless>paperclip: what do you mean with "production" ?
15:05<paperclip>nevertheless: stuff i don't want to break..
15:05<nevertheless>mdz_ all is just saved in the db
15:05<nevertheless>ah, ok
15:05<paperclip>stable/solid
15:05<paperclip>gentoo is frail
15:05<vektor>That's putting it lightly.
15:05<paperclip>it's so fun tho..
15:06<paperclip>anyone use the remote that comes with the Hauppage cards?
15:06<nevertheless>right :-)
15:06<paperclip>does it have an ir dongle ?
15:07<nevertheless>i use the remote, that came with a pinnacle card
15:07<paperclip>where'd you get the ir thingy?
15:07<nevertheless>the reciever?
15:08<paperclip>yes
15:08<nevertheless>it was in the package, too, its for serial connector
15:08<paperclip>hmm..
15:08* paperclipgoes to look at the loverly hauppage site again
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15:09<nevertheless>on their site they tell, that it isn't possible running two hauppauge cards in a system... is this a windows restriction?
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15:11<nevertheless>on their site they tell, that it isn't possible running two hauppauge cards in a system... is this a windows restriction?
15:12<paperclip>?
15:12<nevertheless>don't you know, or don't you understand the question? :-)
15:12<paperclip>i don't know for sure..
15:13<paperclip>but it sounds like some windows stupidness..
15:13<paperclip>do you read the mailing list?
15:13<mdz_>nevertheless: the channel definitions that mythtv uses are saved in the db
15:13<mdz_>nevertheless: but the xmltv configuration is stored in that file
15:13<mdz_>nevertheless: you need it
15:14<sefudier>mdz plz help me :)
15:14<nevertheless>I definitly don't have it... is it the same on a german setup?
15:14<sefudier>what are the contents of the .mythtv/default.xmltv after you run the setup utility ?
15:15<sefudier>can you send me yours pls, mdz?
15:18<nevertheless>I asked this question before (and I will go on to askit ;-)), but again, is there any chance running mythtv on a xinerama setup on only one monitor, not spreaded over all?
15:18<Chutt>the default.xmltv depends on your grabber, where you're located, and what channels and all that
15:18<Chutt>it's the xmltv config file, it can't be shared :p
15:18<Chutt>nevertheless, hit 'f'
15:18<Chutt>and it'll go to a window
15:19<Chutt>if someone wants to add xinerama support, they're welcome to
15:19<sefudier>chutt yes i know
15:19<sefudier>thats exactly what i need to find out
15:19<sefudier>the format of the file, because im coding a grabber for my local tv (brasil)
15:19<Chutt>it doesn't matter what the format is
15:19<sefudier>i've made the part of the /tmp/myth*
15:19<Chutt>it's entirely internal to the grabber
15:19<sefudier>yeah, i need to know what the hell is in that file
15:20<Chutt>any configuration that the grabber needs
15:20<sefudier>ok, here's the situation: i;ve coded the grabber, which works with mythfilldatabase, and it creates all those /tmp/myth* when requested by mythfilldatabase
15:20<mdz_>sefudier: tv_grab_na stores the zip code, provider ID number, channels which are selected for grabbing, etc.
15:20<sefudier>the format of my /tmp/myth* is exactly the same as the ones generated by tv_grab_na
15:21<nevertheless>Chutt: thx :-)
15:21<sefudier>now i need to know wtf is stored in .myth/default.xmltv generated by tv_grab_na
15:21<mdz_>sefudier: mythtv doesn't care about the grabber config
15:21<sefudier>cause just with the /tmp/myth* its not working.. the mysql database arent geting populated
15:21<mdz_>sefudier: so if you need to store some data, put it in that file, otherwise you don't need it
15:22<sefudier>ic
15:22<Chutt>sefudier, if it's not getting populated, then the format of the xml output isn't right.
15:23<Chutt>well, it could be following the dtd, but filldatabase isn't understanding it
15:25<sefudier>humm
15:25<sefudier>what is that parameter --offset?
15:25<mdz_>sefudier: man tv_grab_na
15:25<sefudier>ok.. its just that i havent installed tv_grab_na
15:26<sefudier>too many perl dependencies
15:26<mdz_>sefudier: you haven't installed XMLTV?
15:26<sefudier>no
15:26<paperclip>he's trying to code something elsed to do it's job..
15:26<sefudier>yes
15:26<sefudier>exactly
15:27<mdz_>sefudier: yes, but you should be using the XMLTV perl module to do it
15:27<mdz_>sefudier: if you want to be compatible
15:27<mdz_>but if you insist on doing it another way, you don't need to install any dependencies in order to read the documentation for xmltv
15:28<sefudier>well i just need to generate a text file in the same format
15:28<sefudier>i dont need several hundred kbytes of bloated code
15:28<mdz_>sefudier: is it in the same format?
15:28<mdz_>sefudier: did you validate it against the DTD?
15:28<sefudier>to parse an html file into an xmltv file
15:29<paperclip>what are you using?
15:29<paperclip>c
15:29<sefudier>yeah, pretty much the same format.. do you want to look at a sample?
15:29<sefudier>python
15:29<paperclip>=)
15:29<mdz_>sefudier: 'pretty much' may not be good enough
15:30<mdz_>sefudier: if you're not using the XMLTV code, you need to validate it to make sure that it is correct
15:30<mdz_>rxp should do it
15:30<sefudier>ic..
15:30<mdz_>I believe sp will as well
15:30<sefudier>rxp is the program i need to use to validate it?
15:30<mdz_>I do not think that mythfilldatabase tries to validate it
15:30<mdz_>if it is wrong, then it will probably just not work
15:30<mdz_>sefudier: yes
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15:42<sefudier>mdz: rxp validated my .xmltv
15:42<sefudier>yet mysql's database are empty after a mythfilldatabase
15:42<sefudier>i use exactly the same xml tabs tv_grab_na use
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15:44<OrangeSun>hey guys!
15:44<OrangeSun>what's the haps?
15:45<brunes>the 'haps'?
15:45<paperclip>that's commie lingo..
15:45<paperclip>=)
15:45<brunes>Pretty soon I will be another two tv tuners tester
15:45<brunes>second tv tuner is on the way
15:45<nevertheless>which ones?
15:46<brunes>which ones what?
15:46<nevertheless>which tuner cards?
15:46<brunes>two bttv cards
15:46<nevertheless>that is?
15:46<brunes>?
15:46<nevertheless>i mean, that are?
15:46<brunes>what are you talking about
15:47<nevertheless>about your setup, which card do you use, and which one will you get?
15:47<OrangeSun>brunes: the "happenings..
15:47<OrangeSun>paperclip: hehehehe. now you're on the right track..
15:47<brunes>I have a bt848 card, and im getting a bt878 one
15:47<OrangeSun>Question: has anybody figured out a way for myth to start on the input that you want? (composite, for example)
15:48<nevertheless>don't they have names? no maker?
15:48<brunes>ones a phoebiemicro, I forget the other one
15:48<brunes>why?
15:48<nevertheless>just for the stats ;-)
15:48<nevertheless>Im just interested
15:48<brunes>the card maker doesnt matter so much as the chip
15:49<OrangeSun>man.. i can't believe how much space mythtv's videos can take up!!
15:49<brunes>yeah I know
15:49<paperclip>can you switch the bt8x8 cards inputs on the fly.. like if i have sat on s-vid and antenna on coax ?
15:49<nevertheless>thats quite right, but my pinnacle 848 does not work with my hauppauge 8x8
15:49<brunes>I want ot find out about that
15:50<OrangeSun>paperclip: yeah.. with "c"
15:50<paperclip>OrangeSun: is that a keypress?
15:50<OrangeSun>paperclip: how can you switch them "not on the fly"?
15:51<OrangeSun>paperclip: yes. but skip the preceeding and tailing ' " ' (quotation mark)
15:51<paperclip>OrangeSun: i dunno if it can switch at all.. i'm totally new to tvcards..
15:51<OrangeSun>seriously.. how can you pre-select the input it uses? cuz I haven't at all figured this out..
15:51<brunes>WHy is it I can rip a DVD (704x304) at 1000 bps using mpeg4 libavcodec and it look sgreat, but with mythtv 1000 bps looks liekc rap
15:51<brunes>and the filessize is almost 2x larger
15:52<paperclip>anyone use the hauppage remote?
15:52<brunes>it makes no sense to me
15:52<OrangeSun>paperclip: well, they can be switched.. the question is one of whether or not the program can.
15:52<brunes>its the same library... should be the same size/quality
15:52<OrangeSun>brunes: ar eyou using mpeg4 or rtjpeg?
15:52<brunes>mpeg4 in both
15:52<paperclip>brunes: could it be the source?
15:52<OrangeSun>brunes: In that case, not sure..
15:53<brunes>like, with mpeg4 in myth you basiclly have to use 2000+ bnps to have decent quality
15:53<brunes>I have never ever seena dvdrip with more than 1500bps
15:54<brunes>only difference I can see is the container format isnt avi
15:54<mdz_>brunes: wtf are you talking about?
15:54<OrangeSun>brunes: perhaps it has to do with the codec? while mythtv uses mpeg4, it uses a heavily modified nupelvideo codec..
15:54<mdz_>brunes: surely you mean 1500kbps
15:54<paperclip>why would you expect TV to look like a DVD rip..
15:54<brunes>mdz: Yes kbps sorry
15:54<mdz_>brunes: mythtv is doing it in real-time
15:54<OrangeSun>paperclip: digital inputs can look very good..
15:55<brunes>mdz: so does my dvd encoding
15:55<brunes>does it at around 45 fps
15:55<paperclip>OrangeSun: digital inputs?
15:55<mdz_>brunes: what kind of CPU?
15:55<brunes>xp 1800
15:55<OrangeSun>paperclip: satellite, for example.
15:55<vektor>brunes: Maybe you're not deinterlacing your video input.
15:55<brunes>vektor: how od I do that?
15:56<vektor>brunes: That can really screw your compression if it has to deal with the high frequency interlaced frames.
15:56<mdz_>brunes: you must be using different quality settings or a different encoder
15:56<paperclip>OrangeSun: but you would be using an analog signal, eh?
15:56<brunes>mdz: I us emencoder for dvd rippuing, which uses libavcodec with mpeg4.. same as myth
15:56<brunes>vektor: How do I enable de-interlacing?
15:57<OrangeSun>paperclip; huh?
15:57<vektor>brunes: I don't know.
15:57<brunes># Playback options
15:57<brunes>#
15:57<brunes># Deinterlace playback (1 for on, 0 for no) -- adds to CPU usage
15:57<brunes>int Deinterlace=1
15:57<sefudier>ok, now it works..
15:57<brunes>theres an option for playback but not encode
15:57<paperclip>OrangeSun: what sort of digital connection do you make between the sat receiver and the mythtv box?
15:57<sefudier>mdz: thx for the help
15:58<OrangeSun>paperclip: there are div. video outputs on satellite receivers.. optical whatnot.
15:58<brunes>I duno I just find that mythtv recordings seem to take an incredible amout of space. Do tivo recordings take simmilar space? They us empeg2 right?
15:59<paperclip>OrangeSun: not on any i've seen.. but you might be right.. so which capture card uses optical whatnot?
16:00<OrangeSun>paperclip: a) there are digital-output satellite receivers.. (http://www.audiorevolution.com/equip/sonyhd100/). b) some have firewire output.
16:00<paperclip>OrangeSun: heh.. looking..
16:00<OrangeSun>now getting firewire into myth is a whole other story, as there aren't any v4l drivers..
16:01<vektor>If mythtv doesn't deinterlace before encoding then your quality is bound to suffer if it's using a progressive encoder.
16:01<paperclip>OrangeSun: i'm amazed that the MPAA/ networks would allow such a port to exist on a digital sat box..
16:01<brunes>vektor: well hwy isn't there an option to do that?
16:01<OrangeSun>I obviously run no such setup, though.. my point was that you can get a very crisp signal coming in from a source, and still have it treated not as well as if it were going straight to TV..
16:01<vektor>brunes: In case you can't tell, I don't run mythtv, I'm just giving suggestions.
16:02<brunes>oh
16:02<vektor>brunes: I have no idea what mythtv does or does not do.
16:02<brunes>hrom what I see, it de-interlaces on playback
16:02<OrangeSun>http://www.jvc.com/pressbox/jsx777.htm
16:02<brunes>myth needs xinerama support badly as well
16:02<vektor>brunes: Then I think that might hurt you. It probably isn't too hard to hack it to deinterlace before encoding. You should try.
16:03<nevertheless>brunes: hehe, we just talked about this
16:03<vektor>brunes: I have some Xinerama code I use from ogle that you could port into mythtv.
16:03<brunes>nevertheless: xinerama?
16:03<nevertheless>but since mythtv is intended to run on a separate box, I think this is not too necessary
16:03<nevertheless>yep
16:04<vektor>brunes: Take a look at display.[h,c] in the ogle source tree.
16:04<paperclip>OrangeSun: that sat receiver has no digital output (that i can see)
16:04<vektor>brunes: under video_out.
16:05<paperclip>OrangeSun: the article even bitches that you can't get hdtv out to an hdtv vcr
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16:06<OrangeSun>paperclip: oh well. you gotta be wrong sometime..
16:06<brunes>if you did the de-interlacing beforehand, you wouldnt have to do it in playback
16:06<OrangeSun>on that note, I must disappear.. see you soon : )
16:06<vektor>brunes: Correct.
16:06<OrangeSun>brunes: it deinterlaces on record.
16:06<brunes>seems to me thats what it should be doing anyways
16:06<vektor>Ah, OrangeSun to the rescue.
16:06<brunes>OrangeSun: Then why does the settings.txt say "Deinterlac eon Playback"
16:06<OrangeSun>vektor!
16:06<vektor>OrangeSun!
16:06<vektor>brunes: Probably a bug.
16:06* vektorgone
16:07<paperclip>heh..
16:07<OrangeSun>hmm.
16:07<OrangeSun>well, possibly I am wrong again..
16:07<OrangeSun>run it by the list.
16:07<OrangeSun>I was under the distinct impression that deinterlacing happened on record..
16:07<paperclip>OrangeSun: http://www.discountwarehouse.com/jvcjxs777.html
16:08<paperclip>OrangeSun: that's not even a receiver
16:08<OrangeSun>paperclip: I know.. but if it can bring in and send out digital, you're set..
16:08<paperclip>but you can't =)
16:09<OrangeSun>paperclip: It's possible. My inability to find you webpages talking about it doesn't mean it's not.
16:09<paperclip>there aren't sat receivers with firewire or digital output.. (again, that i'm aware of)
16:09<paperclip>OrangeSun: but it does seem to point the other way..
16:09<OrangeSun>There are definitely HDTV Satellite receivers.
16:10<paperclip>with digital output?
16:10<OrangeSun>how do they output to the TV?
16:10<paperclip>everything i've seen uses component
16:10<paperclip>i dunno..
16:10<paperclip>there could be some "secure" digital link
16:11<paperclip>so that the device only outputs to a "safe" TV or so..
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16:13<OrangeSun>hmmm. possible..
16:15<sefudier>brunes: with a xp 1.8 what kind of resolutions can you do?
16:15<sefudier>and what kind of recording quality do you get
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16:45<nevertheless>any idea, why myth(epg/tv) doens't swith to the sellected channel by pressing 'm'? it does nothing
16:45<nevertheless>and pressing a number in mythtv doesn't change to another station
16:46<sefudier>yes
16:46<sefudier>i have the exact same problem
16:46<sefudier>(pressing number does not change station)
16:47<nevertheless>hmmm, but you don't know why, right?
16:47<sefudier>nope
16:47<sefudier>maybe you need to press some other key after the number?
16:47<sefudier>or maybe its a bug
16:48<nevertheless>probably, but probably its due to our unconventional mythfilldb stuff
16:49<sefudier>its conventional
16:49<sefudier>dtd certified
16:49<sefudier>someone didnt follow the standards in between :)
16:49<nevertheless>maybe :-)
16:49<sefudier>or its a bug hehe
17:02<nevertheless>any idea, how 2 xml files can be merged?
17:02<witten>is there any way to do channel fine-tuning in mythtv? I'm using an antenna and all of the channels are static-y
17:03<nevertheless>yes, there is
17:03<nevertheless>you have to run mythfilldatabase --manual, there you can add finetuning settings (like in xawtv ;-)
17:03<witten>okay, thanks
17:04<mdz_>deinterlacing happens on playback
17:05<witten>I have to enter fine-tuning info for *each and every* channel?
17:05<nevertheless>yes
17:05<witten>there's no global setting?
17:05<nevertheless>nope
17:05<witten>argh
17:05<nevertheless>not that i know
17:07<sefudier>mdz: any idea on why stations wont change?
17:07<sefudier>after pressing the station number
17:08<mdz_>sefudier: what input are you using on the card?
17:08<mdz_>sefudier: are you using multiple inputs?
17:08<sefudier>only one card, using /dev/video (Television input)
17:09<nevertheless>i use Television, i have setup more, but i use only thelevision
17:09<sefudier>yeah, same here
17:10<sefudier>i have setup composite and svideo
17:10<sefudier>but only use television
17:10<nevertheless>dito
17:10<mdz_>I have only seen that behaviour when using multiple inputs
17:10<nevertheless>what means "using multiple inputs"?
17:10<mdz_>usually it means that mythtv cannot find the channel that you are trying to change to
17:10<mdz_>perhaps the channel table is not populated correctly?
17:11<nevertheless>where does it take the #?
17:11<mdz_>nevertheless: most capture cards have multiple inputs (antenna, S-video, composite, etc.)
17:11<sefudier>what should i type?
17:11<sefudier>the channel name?
17:11<sefudier>channel id, or number
17:11<sefudier>?
17:11<mdz_>nevertheless: the channel table
17:11<mdz_>channum
17:12<nevertheless>thats what i meant (Television...)
17:12<nevertheless>my channum contains letter, too
17:12<mdz_>nevertheless: I answered "<nevertheless> what means "using multiple inputs"?"
17:12<nevertheless>yepp
17:13<nevertheless>but my question more was about the USING, since i have them setuped, but i only watch "television"
17:14<mdz_>nevertheless: what is relevant is what is in the channel table
17:14<nevertheless>INSERT INTO channel VALUES (1000,'E5',1,'ARD','ARD','/home/chris/.mythtv/channels/ard.gif',0,NULL,'CNI0DC1');
17:14<mdz_>each channel is associated with a sourceid
17:14<nevertheless>this is part of the sqldump
17:15<nevertheless>where the 2nd field is the channum
17:15<sefudier>what entry would be associated with the channel?
17:15<sefudier>second? ok
17:15<nevertheless>CREATE TABLE channel (
17:15<nevertheless> chanid int(10) unsigned NOT NULL default '0',
17:15<nevertheless> channum varchar(5) NOT NULL default '',
17:15<nevertheless> sourceid int(10) unsigned default NULL,
17:15<nevertheless> callsign varchar(20) default NULL,
17:15<nevertheless> name varchar(20) default NULL,
17:15<nevertheless> icon varchar(255) default NULL,
17:15<nevertheless> finetune int(11) default NULL,
17:15<nevertheless> videofilters varchar(255) default NULL,
17:15<nevertheless> xmltvid varchar(64) default NULL,
17:15<nevertheless> PRIMARY KEY (chanid)
17:15<nevertheless>) TYPE=MyISAM;
17:15<witten>ok, I'm using us-bcast and fine-tuning of 15 for every channel in mythtv. these are the same settings I'm using in xawtv. but I get nothing but mostly static on every channel in mythtv. what might I be doing wrong?
17:16<mdz_>read Channel::SetChannelByString and TV::CheckChannel
17:17<mdz_>nevertheless: QString thequery = QString("SELECT channel.finetune FROM "
17:17<mdz_> "channel,capturecard,cardinput "
17:17<mdz_> "WHERE channel.channum = \"%1\" AND "
17:17<mdz_> "channel.sourceid = cardinput.sourceid AND "
17:17<mdz_> "cardinput.inputname = \"%2\" AND "
17:17<mdz_> "cardinput.cardid = capturecard.cardid AND "
17:17<mdz_> "capturecard.videodevice = \"%3\";")
17:17<mdz_> .arg(channum).arg(channelinput).arg(device);
17:17<mdz_>nevertheless: that is the query it uses to look up the channel
17:17<mdz_>nevertheless: it sounds like it isn't finding anything to match
17:18<paperclip>mdz_: would you know if it's possible to switch on the fly from s-video (sat) to coax (antenna) with one tuner card?
17:19<mdz_>nevertheless: if it returns no rows, then it will just not change the channel
17:19<mdz_>paperclip: "on the fly"?
17:19<paperclip>mdz_: yes.. so that local stations and sat stuff are seemlessly integrated
17:20<mdz_>paperclip: I do not understand what you mean. change inputs without exiting mythtv?
17:20<paperclip>mdz_: yes
17:20<mdz_>of course
17:20<paperclip>or any tv app for that matter
17:20<paperclip>ok.. so can all the channels show up on the same epg grid?
17:20* awhas a potential base component list for a mythtv box, anybody want to provide an opinion?
17:21<mdz_>paperclip: of course
17:21<mdz_>paperclip: there isn't much documentation, but this stuff is in it
17:21<paperclip>mdz_: great =)
17:21<mdz_>paperclip: start with the FAQ and the README and keys.txt
17:21<paperclip>mdz_: i'll be ordering a wintv 401 soon =)
17:21<paperclip>mdz_: mkay will do..
17:21<paperclip>thanks
17:22<paperclip>aw: i'd like to see it.. even if i'm not qualified to comment =)
17:22<aw>I'm not sure I'm qualified either, but here it is:
17:23<aw>case - http://www.caseoutlet.com/case/4117/CS-4117.html
17:23<aw>mb - fica.com FIC at31 Fusion (hoping linux likes this chipset)
17:24<aw>cpu - thoroughbred 1700+ (potentially underclocking to 1.1GHz (~35W))
17:24<aw>65mm tall zalman flower for the cpu heatsink, and potentially replacing chipset hs/fan w/ a zalman as well
17:25<nevertheless>mdz_: unfortunatly Im not very good in mysql, so this doesn't tell me too much
17:25<mdz_>aw: that case is a micro-ATX
17:25<aw>yep so's the mb
17:26<mdz_>aw: and what kind of capture card and video card did you find which are low-profile?
17:26<aw>that's the nice thing about that case, it has one full hieght slot
17:26<paperclip>micro-atx doesn't always need low-pro does it?
17:26<aw>comes w/ a pci riser
17:27<paperclip>kewl =)
17:27<paperclip>i like the underclocking idea..
17:27<mdz_>aw: how are you going to build this system with one expansion card?
17:27<aw>the video is built-in radeon, comes w/ a full height riser for the plugs, may have to chop it to fit in the low-profile slot
17:27<aw>built-in nic...
17:27<paperclip>aren't there prcessors that can clock down on the fly..
17:28<mdz_>why pay more and underclock instead of getting a lower class CPU?
17:28<aw>mdz_: thoroughbred is 0.13 mic... first athlon proc at that process
17:28<paperclip>cooler
17:28<mdz_>aw: on-board TV output?
17:29<aw>mdz_: yep
17:29<aw>manual appears to say you can force the bios to direct it to tv-out, so I'm hoping linux doesn't need to know anything but an ntsc modeline
17:29<mdz_>aw: I spent a lot of time looking into micro- and mini-atx cases when I was building my system, and I threw out the idea
17:29<mdz_>aw: that will only work if you run a VESA mode
17:30<mdz_>which means no acceleration, and a very flickery refresh rate
17:30<aw>k, but doesn't gatos have tv-out working on radeon cards anyway?
17:30<mdz_>aw: somewhat
17:30<paperclip>aw: in CVS
17:30<nevertheless>mdz_ could you probably dump you mythconverg and sent me some lines of you channel table?
17:30<mdz_>aw: not properly
17:31<mdz_>nevertheless: can't you just install xmltv?
17:31<nevertheless>mdz_ i have it installed ;-)
17:31<mdz_>nevertheless: then why not use mythfilldatabase to fill it with tv_grab_na or something and compare?
17:32<rnc>you wanna know what nightmare is ? try to mimic tv_grab_na for your local cable company
17:32<nevertheless>i use tv_grab_de, and it works, but i cannot switch the channels
17:32<mdz_>sub-ATX cases are risky
17:32<aw>mdz_: define vesa mode. are you saying I can't use the radeon X server w/ the right modelines (ie. I'll need a generic VGA driver)?
17:32<mdz_>if^H^Hwhen you find that not everything works exactly right as you have assembled it, you can't easily add or change components
17:32<mdz_>aw: you would need to use vesafb
17:33<mdz_>aw: which means that the video BIOS initializes the mode at boot, and it is never changed after that
17:33* awneeds to go borrow a radeon and see how well they work
17:34<mdz_>I started off with only one card (a Radeon AIW), and I have since had to add a separate capture card and a real sound card in order to get a decent system
17:34<mdz_>if I had built it in a micro-ATX case (even if I made it fit somehow), I would have been screwed
17:35<aw>mdz_: what do you use the capture card for? cable-box?
17:35<paperclip>mdz_: one more question.. =) do you know what's involved in making a (s)vcd from a show that's been recorded? splitting and then just transcode?
17:35<mdz_>aw: I use it for all capture
17:35<Chutt>it'll eventually have vcd burning built in.
17:36<Chutt>transcode doesn't understand mythtv's file format, so it'd be difficult to use it =)
17:36<paperclip>Chutt: cool.. would that be something like pop in a cdr and come back in the morning?
17:36<Chutt>yeah
17:36<paperclip>Chutt: ahh..
17:36<paperclip>very good then..
17:36<Chutt>some guy in sweden's working on that, i believe
17:37<aw>mdz_: couldn't that be solved w/ a better tv-card? is the aiw fully functional?
17:37<paperclip>someone told me his nick Asomething..
17:37<mdz_>aw: search the mailing list archives, this has been hashed out dozens of times on both mythtv-dev and gatos-devel
17:38<mdz_>Antw73
17:38<paperclip>ahh..
17:38<paperclip>i'll keep my eye out for him =)
17:41<nevertheless>does mysql (or mythfilldb) care about the timeoffset in the start and endtimes? ('20021116234100 +0100')
17:42<mdz_>my database has never had any offsets, so I assume they are meant to be local times
17:43<nevertheless>mine has the offset, and it is interpreted wrong, so everything starts an hour too erly in mythepg :-)
17:43<Chutt>it's not interpreted at all.
17:43<nevertheless>damn
17:44<nevertheless>why don't we have the same time all over the world... this would reduce much work ;-)
17:48<witten>anyone know where in the mysql tables I can find the mythtv us-cable/us-bcast/etc settings?
17:49<Chutt>its in settings.txt
17:49<witten>oh okay thanks
17:49<mdz_>aw: that board you were looking at has VIA 686B onboard audio...I have that in my desktop machine here and it is terrible
17:49<mdz_>witten: dpkg-reconfigure mythtv
17:49<witten>mdz: that doesn't seem to work (channels are still all static)
17:50<aw>mdz_: darn... tnx for the info
17:50<witten>hm, looks like it *is* using us-bcast in settings.txt
17:50<mdz_>aw: it will be very difficult to fit everything you want in that case, and there will be no room for error if one component is not right
17:50<mdz_>witten: dpkg-reconfigure edits settings.txt for you
17:50<witten>mdz_: so I see
17:51<mdz_>witten: perhaps you don't have the antenna connected? :-P
17:51<witten>mdz_: I do. us-bcast works just fine in xawtv and other programs
17:51<aw>mdz_: yep, but me and the so aren't willing to put a full-size pc in the entertainment center
17:52<witten>mdz_: mythtv apparently is either not using the ntsc/us-bcast/finetune=15 settings or I need to make some other changes to get reception
17:52<mdz_>aw: I went with a straight ATX and it looks and works fine
17:52<Chutt>witten, i doubt that.
17:52<Chutt>unless you broke something else
17:52<witten>Chutt: well what differences are there in settings between mythtv and xawtv that could affect channel reception?
17:53<mdz_>witten: are you sure it's using the Television input?
17:53<aw>mdz_: I still think a uATX mb has plenty of slots... AGP + 3 pci, sounds like it'd be enough for what you have
17:53<Chutt>there aren't any differences
17:53<Chutt>it's basically the exact same tuning code
17:53<witten>mdz_: yes. I get some channels very faintly, but almost all static
17:53<mdz_>aw: but a micro-ATX case ends up not being able to fit the cards that go in those slots
17:53<witten>Chutt: very odd
17:53<Chutt>witten, and it works for everyone else
17:53<Chutt>so...
17:54<mdz_>witten: how many channels do you have?
17:54<aw>mdz_: there are uATX case that can have full height PCI cards
17:54<witten>mdz_: 23 in the mythtv database
17:54<mdz_>aw: I didn't find any that looked usable...bad thermal characteristics, too
17:55<mdz_>witten: perhaps you have a ~/.mythtv/settings.txt with wrong settinsg in it
17:55<mdz_>witten: ~/.mythtv/settings.txt overrides /etc/mythtv/settings.txt
17:56<witten>mdz_: no ~/.mythtv/settings.txt here. but good idea
17:56<aw>mdz_: not what I'm looking for, but they do exist: http://us.enlightcorp.com/products/pc/detel.php?kind=pccase&serial=66
17:57<mdz_>aw: a mini-tower is not exactly what I have in mind when I talk about micro-atx :-)
17:58<mdz_>though apparently they do exist
17:58<aw>me either, but it lends itself better to full height pci slots
17:59<sefudier>brunes was complaining recording quality wasnt that good.. is it only him? and is there an option to have deinterlacing for recording also?
17:59<mdz_>I much prefer my ATX desktop to a micro-atx mini-tower
17:59<mdz_>which has plenty of full-height PCI slots
17:59<vektor>sefudier: That was just a possibility of why quality might be poor.
18:00<witten>maybe the bttv driver has shat itself
18:00<sefudier>mdz: which card(s) would you suggest for tv-out in linux/mythtv ?
18:00<mdz_>witten: that is unlikely if xawtv works
18:00<mdz_>sefudier: I don't want to make a recommendation
18:01<sefudier>i currently have a dxr3 but its probably goingto take a while before the fb driver is fully implemented, i wanted to buy some reasonably good tvout card
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18:02<witten>mdz_: true..
18:04<witten>"strange error flushing buffer ..." that can't be good :)
18:04<mdz_>witten: harmless
18:04<nevertheless> What's this 'strange error flushing buffer' mean?
18:04<witten>you know, in xawtv all my channels are off-by-one
18:04<nevertheless>- Nothing, really. It's just lame (the mp3 encoder) complaining for some
18:04<nevertheless> obscure reason.
18:04<witten>I be that's the problem in mythtv
18:04<witten>s/be/bet/
18:05<nevertheless>(from FAQ)
18:05<witten>nevertheless: ah, thanks
18:05<sefudier>tats related to some codec
18:05<sefudier>we all get it
18:05<mdz_>wow, somebody is running mythtv on a P2-400
18:07<witten>kickass! I ran "update channel set channum=channum-1;" in mysql and now I get reception
18:08<mdz_>Chutt: sounds like canada-bcast :-)
18:08<witten>except the playback is all messed up.. repeating and stuff
18:08<witten>hmm
18:08<mdz_>witten: the audio, you mean?
18:08<mdz_>witten: that means that you forgot to mute the audio input from the capture card
18:09<witten>hmm ok
18:09<mdz_>witten: that is in the FAQ, btw
18:09<mdz_>witten: now would be a good time to read through it
18:09<nevertheless>hehe :-)
18:09<mdz_>witten: /usr/share/doc/mythtv/FAQ
18:10<witten>hehe thanks. I think I read it *before* I installed but not after I started having problems :)
18:13<mdz_>who was that guy who had a code to turn on and off the motorola digital cable STB...
18:15<mdz_>apparently, the TiVo knows how to control them
18:17<aw>mdz_: see uATX desktop cases here: http://www.coolermaster.com
18:17<aw>of course these would double the cost of my box
18:19<paperclip>mdz_: that's a crazy string of hex..
18:20-!-Echo465 [~Administr@12-222-117-17.client.insightBB.com] has joined #mythtv
18:20<paperclip>newegg.com has some largish uATX cases
18:21<aw>yeah, that's where I saw these coolamster ones
18:21<paperclip>some are pretty much ATX cases =)
18:23<aw>little bit of metal work and we could just make a hoodscoop to turn those low-profile slots to normal height...
18:26<paperclip>heh.. i know some one who did that..
18:28<paperclip>http://spacemeat.com/photo/I-Note
18:28<paperclip>minus the scoop
18:29<aw>don't want to knowck over that box...
18:30<paperclip>=)
18:30<witten>why does mythtv use so much cpu?
18:31<Echo465>video capture and encoding is cpu intensive.
18:31<aw>potential low-profile tv tuner: http://www.asus.com.tw/vga/tvtuner/overview.htm
18:31<aw>no clue about linux support
18:33<aw>or the ATI TV-wonder
18:37--> quantumz[HOM](~quantumz1@c-24-129-212-33.se.client2.attbi.com) has joined #mythtv
18:37<quantumz[HOM]>evening all
18:38-!-quantumz[HOM] is now known as quantumz
18:38<aw>evening... almost
18:47<sefudier>anyone here use a geforce 2 mx as tv out (if so,how's the support/quality for it?)
18:48<rnc>sefudier: it's ok. But if you can get your hands on something better, do it.
18:50<quantumz>i am trying to run the setup program and i am getting this error " QSqlDatabase warning: QMYSQL3 driver not loaded
18:50<quantumz> QSqlDatabase: available drivers:=20
18:50<quantumz> Couldn't open database
18:50<quantumz>"
18:50<quantumz>i am looking around and i found a tutorial
18:50<nevertheless>quantumz: do you have the plugin compiled?
18:50<quantumz>and ihave to compile a plugin. i have the mysql source but i cant seem to find this plugins director
18:50<rnc>quantumz: install mysql and recompile QT, while doing so, make sure qt detects mysql
18:50<aw>so what are people using for tv-out? I know voodoo3 tv-out is a pita, and underscans on the tv
18:51<quantumz>aye
18:51<rnc>or manually compile qt's mysql plugin
18:51<quantumz>ill try it
18:51<quantumz>thats the plugin i am trying tofind
18:51<quantumz>*to find
18:52<sefudier>aw: thats exactly what im trying to find out
18:52<quantumz>there isn't a source directory in the plugins directory in the qt directory, hence my confusion
18:52<sefudier>want some decent tv-out device
18:54<quantumz>are there any special compile time options on qt-3 that will make sure it sees mysql?
18:56<nevertheless>i don't know, but are you shure, it is not compiled? look at $QTDIR/plugin/sql...
18:56<Chutt>it gets detected automatically.
18:57<nevertheless>Chutt: do you have an idea, why the channel doesn't switch when pressing numbers ?
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19:09<mdz_>apparently, somebody is making a PVR "sidecar" which can be attached to this digital cable tuner and talk to it via the serial port
19:09<mdz_>so clearly it must be possible to change the channel that way
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19:27<OrangeSun>chutt!!!!!
19:28<OrangeSun>oh, guess he was here 20 minutes ago..
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20:09<brtb>hmm... any idea why most of the recording files would be fine, but I have two that just skip and try to use 300% cpu, and one that uses half CPU, plays no audio, and plays back at about 2x speed?
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21:14<witten>where does mythtv store its recorded shows on the filesystem?
21:16<witten>nevermind, found it
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21:41<cowbud>anyone alive here I have a question
21:41<cowbud>:)
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21:54<aw>cowbud: ask, I think people are around
21:55<aw>anybody have experience w/ ali 1535 builtin audio? I think it's the trident driver
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21:56<quantumz>i know i have Xv support for my Riva TNT2 but mythtv keeps crashing out saying 'Couldn't find Xv support, exiting' any thoughts? i can hear audi
21:56<quantumz>o
21:58* quantumzis sure no one in here is awake
21:59<aw>awake, just have not clue ;^)
21:59<aw>xdpyinfo shows xv support?
22:00<aw>"XVideo"
22:00<aw>are you running multi-head, sounds like xv only works on one
22:05<mdz_>quantumz: run "xvinfo"
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22:20<witten>where can I find a list of keyboard commands?
22:20<mdz_>witten: /usr/share/doc/mythtv/keys.txt
22:20<Chutt>heh.
22:20<mdz_>witten: read all of the other files in there, too
22:21<mdz_>Chutt: I was glancing over the new documentation in CVS
22:22<mdz_>Chutt: mind if I send a patch to add a Debian section to the distribution-specific bit?
22:22<mdz_>as a matter of fact, most of the info is in there, but it's in the introduction for some reason
22:22<Chutt>not at all
22:23<Chutt>that robert kulagowski guy's done most of it
22:24<brtb>hey chutt, quick question... do you know of any reason why a few of my recordings are acting really strange? two move really slow/skip and try to use up 300% CPU, and another has lost the sound track and plays at 2x speed
22:24<Chutt>brtb, nope
22:24<Chutt>never seen that
22:24<Chutt>anything interesting on the console/stdout?
22:25<cowbud>when I first try to open mythtv it says it cannot open the DB do I need to have mysql server installed?
22:25<brtb>duh... why didn't i look before... the 2x speed one has very large amounts of "Audio buffer overflow"
22:25<Chutt>what's the exact error?
22:26<brtb>"Audio buffer overflow, audio data lost!"
22:26<cowbud>cowbud@udc ~$ mythtv
22:26<cowbud>Couldn't open database
22:26<cowbud>QSqlQuery::exec: database not open
22:26<cowbud>QSqlQuery::exec: database not open
22:26<brtb>hundreds of them a second
22:26<Chutt>cowbud, of course you need it.
22:26<mdz_>cowbud: mythtv requires a mysql database
22:26<mdz_>cowbud: that fact is all over the website and the installation documentation
22:26* cowbuddoesnt know jack about mysql
22:27<Chutt>brtb, weird.. basically, that's saying that its decoding data faster than it was able to play back its buffers
22:27<mdz_>cowbud: what distribution do you use? it probably includes a package
22:27<cowbud>debian
22:27<Chutt>brtb, which is pretty much impossible in a normal situation =)
22:27<cowbud>DBI->connect(host=localhost;database=) failed: Access denied for user: 'root@localhost' (Using password: YES) at -e line 5
22:27<cowbud>Can't call method "do" on an undefined value at -e line 6, <> line 1.
22:27<Chutt>cowbud, use the .debs
22:27<brtb>lol
22:27<mdz_>cowbud: http://dijkstra.csh.rit.edu:8088/~mdz/debian/dists/woody/mythtv/
22:27<cowbud>Chutt: I did and they didnt install the mysql-server that is why I asked
22:27<brtb>of course my machine would produce the impossible
22:27<Chutt>brtb, heh =)
22:27<cowbud>and now Ig et this about the user not having access to mysql database..
22:28<brtb>the slowed-down recordings produce those errors as well, and also have "Delaying to next trigger: 2350725205"... the numbers change, always 9 or 10 digits
22:28<mdz_>cowbud: you did not read the instructions
22:28<Chutt>brtb, the slowed down one might be fixed using current cvs
22:28<mdz_>they are on that page
22:28<brtb>ok
22:28<cowbud>mdz_: there were none all I was presented with were the debs I looked in /usr/doc/share/mythtv and didnt notice much
22:28<brtb>i'm on... straight 0.7 i think
22:28<cowbud>ohh there is a page under that hahah
22:28<mdz_>cowbud: the instructions are at the URL I pasted above
22:29<Chutt>brtb, if you pause/resume the slowed down one, anything happen?
22:29<quantumz>i got it fixed! woo hoo! this is a really pretty interface
22:29<cowbud>mdz_: so is there a quick way to setup access to my sql database for anyuser?
22:29<cowbud>or for a specifc user..
22:29<quantumz>too bad it runs like a dog on a god damn p3 800!
22:29<mdz_>cowbud: the mythtv installation does it automatically
22:30<Chutt>too bad p3 800s are ancient :p
22:30<mdz_>cowbud: just apt-get install mysql-server
22:30<quantumz>quiet you =]. its my secondary machine. is it not going to run well at all on an 800mhz?
22:31<Chutt>well, you can do stuff like not deinterlace the video, not compress the audio
22:31<Chutt>change the capture resolution, etc
22:31<brtb>chutt - that fixes it on one of them, but not the other two
22:31<cowbud>mdz_: I did and now when Mythtv tries to set itself up it says root@localhost Using Password: YES access denied..
22:32<brtb>those two have the audio buffer overflow problem too, this one didn't
22:33<Chutt>ah
22:33<Chutt>well, i'll look into it
22:33<Chutt>i may ask you to do some debugging later, if that's ok?
22:33<brtb>sure
22:34<brtb>no problem
22:34<quantumz>chutt: all of that is in settings.txt correct?
22:34<Chutt>i'm pretty much asleep right now, is all
22:34<Chutt>quantumz, mostly, yeah
22:34<mdz_>cowbud: what did you give it as the mysql admin password?
22:34<cowbud>mdz_: my root password
22:34<mdz_>cowbud: the mysql root password is not the same thing as the system root password
22:34<mdz_>cowbud: by default the mysql root password is blank
22:34<quantumz>which codec has a better performance/size ratio. rtjpeg or mpeg4?
22:34<cowbud>mdz_: yah so I am learning but I never set my mysql server password..
22:35<cowbud>mdz_: how can I change that since I dont want other people connecting to my database or do I need to worry about that?
22:35<brtb>cowbud - try giving it no password for mysql
22:35<brtb>if you've never used it
22:35<Chutt>quantumz, try em both and see
22:35<cowbud>no password worked..
22:35<mdz_>cowbud: root can only connect with no password locally by default
22:35<cowbud>mdz_: ok
22:36<cowbud>brb
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22:36<mdz_>there is a reason why the default debconf priority is 'high'
22:37<quantumz>chutt: christ my hard drive is going like a bat out of hell as soon as i start mythtv, and im not even recording anything. 256 mb or ram and a 800mhz processor and this is a dog
22:37<brtb>lol
22:37<mdz_>and why I ask nearly all the questions at <high priority
22:37<Chutt>quantumz, err, it is recording something
22:37<brtb>quantumz - make sure dma is on
22:37-!-cowbud [deformat@22-103.021.popsite.net] has joined #mythtv
22:39<mdz_>I have seen that audio buffer overflow problem before
22:39<mdz_>under weird conditions
22:39<brtb>what kinda weird conditions?
22:39<mdz_>I believe it was high load and heavy I/O
22:39<brtb>hm
22:40<Chutt>but if he's just playing back stuff
22:40<mdz_>but I don't remember for sure
22:40<cowbud>please excuse my stupidity I should have read more guys :)
22:40<Chutt>it shouldn't be
22:40<brtb>only condition I ever do that fits that is forwarding through a recording while it's recording another
22:40-!-OrangeSun [~orangey@London-HSE-ppp3539603.sympatico.ca] has joined #mythtv
22:40<brtb>but these recordings were made with it just on the frontend interface screen
22:41<mdz_>seeking around shouldn't be any more intensive than normal playback now
22:41<Chutt>heh, nope =)
22:41<mdz_>except maybe for a little bit more I/O delay since readahead doesn't do so well
22:42<OrangeSun>chutt!!!!!!
22:43<Chutt>err, hi.
22:43<OrangeSun>chutt: If that sony.pl file works out, would you mind putting it on the mythtv page somewhere? we could write a little faq for how to control the receiver from myth and stuff..
22:43<mdz_>man, I want 640x480 back
22:44<mdz_>I have not been able to come up with any obvious optimization targets
22:44<Chutt>mdz, all i need to do is make that configurable?
22:44<Chutt>that ringbuffer stuff
22:44<mdz_>Chutt: I dunno anymore, I think it's better overall
22:44<mdz_>Chutt: even at 480x480 things are smoother for me
22:44<quantumz>dma is enabled, (it is still going to full 800x600 screen for some reason), tried mpeg4 and rtjpeg, and i am still getting skipping or interlace issues every few seconds
22:45<brtb>quantumz what size?
22:45<brtb>and i vaguely remember asking what the specs were on your machine but i can't remember now
22:45<mdz_>Chutt: you mentioned before about having libavcodec draw directly to Xv and avoiding a memcpy there...can you point me in the right direction there?
22:45<OrangeSun>quantumz: how do you know dma is enabled?
22:46<quantumz>hdparm /dev/hda
22:46<quantumz>tells me that dma = 1
22:46<Chutt>mdz, well, it needs to turn on direct rendering
22:46<quantumz>aka, on
22:46<mdz_>if mythtv used similar CPU to mplayer for playback, I would be in good shape
22:46<quantumz>brtb: what do you mean what size?
22:46<Chutt>mdz, which involves setting up buffers for libavcodec to draw to
22:46<mdz_>Chutt: what sort of direct rendering? surely not DRI
22:46<Chutt>naw
22:46<brtb>what recording size
22:46<Chutt>more like, making more than one xv buffer
22:47<Chutt>and then giving that to libavcodec to draw into
22:47<mdz_>and flipping between them?
22:47<Chutt>right
22:47<quantumz>also....my keyboard shortcuts as written in keys.txt, just plain refuse to work. i am having to kill the processes
22:47<Chutt>not sure how you'd do the OSD when paused, though
22:47<mdz_>why does it continue to redraw when paused?
22:48<Chutt>so it can update how much behind real-time you are
22:48<Chutt>and if you have it paused when it wants to record something, the dialog that asks comes up
22:48<Chutt>etc
22:48<quantumz>now thats wierd. 'top' only shows me using 60% of the damn cpu cycles, yet this thing is skippin like a pentium 1
22:48<mdz_>I seem to recall you saying that it was redrawing at the same rate as normal video while it was paused, though
22:49<Chutt>harddrive's too slow.
22:49<OrangeSun>quantumz: then the CPU is not your bottleneck.
22:49<Chutt>or ram is
22:49<quantumz>brtb: 480x480
22:49<Chutt>but it's most likely harddrive
22:49<quantumz>i have 256 ram in there, i can pop in 512
22:49<Chutt>amount of ram is meaningless
22:49<Chutt>speed isn't.
22:49<quantumz>isn't it a bit inefficent to copy all data to HD before displaying to screen?
22:49<OrangeSun>quantumz: if you notice that it skips regularly (i.e., every 1 minute), it may be a croned thing or something.. watch your logs for something that happens every X minutes, and see if you can match that.. for me, everytime my mailserver does a queue check, there's a skip.
22:50<mdz_>RAM helps...even more if you have gobs and gobs
22:50<OrangeSun>quantumz: the discussion has been had on the mailing list..
22:50<Chutt>quantumz, err, how do you pause the video, then?
22:50<quantumz>chutt: at the moment, since it wont accept keyboard commands, it doesnt matter much too me :-)
22:51<mdz_>quantumz: you can try enabling some of the other hdparm options, like 32-bit I/O, unmaskirq and multcount
22:51<quantumz>may very well do that
22:51<OrangeSun>Chutt: Think about it this way.. *realistically*, TV runs live about 90% of the time.. If you have something that does write --> ram, and then IF it exceeds the ram storage, goes to HD, you would probably really help the HD writing situation..
22:52<OrangeSun>this would *only* help live situations, but still..
22:52<Chutt>it only helps live situations where you're within like 20 seconds of real time
22:52<OrangeSun>Chutt: yeah, but 90% of the time..
22:52<Chutt>that's hardly 90% of the time
22:52<quantumz>i kinda agree with oran sun on this, but you would have slight skip issues if you were running any other processes (getting kicked over to swap) or if you had to read of ram and HD simultaneously
22:53<Chutt>yeah, you can agree all you like, but it still doesn't make it workable.
22:53<OrangeSun>Chutt: depends on people's usage. for me, it's by far more common that I run live than not live..
22:53<mdz_>Chutt: have you thought about mapping the ringbuffer file?
22:53<Chutt>mdz, memlock?
22:53<mdz_>Chutt: mmap
22:54<OrangeSun>The other question is one of "why not?" Let's say it even helps in 50% of the situations.. that's still drastic..
22:54<Chutt>no, it's not a question of 'why not?'
22:54<mdz_>OrangeSun: the question is "why?"
22:54<Chutt>it's a question of 'this would make things extremely complicated for an extremely small amount of gain'
22:54-!-taer [taer@cs6669227-134.austin.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
22:55<taer>Question: Is there/ can there be a tuner card that you hook a DirecTv satelite up to?
22:56<taer>I know you can use a IR tuner..
22:56<Chutt>taer, no.
22:56<taer>but Im looking for TIVO like stuff.
22:56<taer>sigh.. That would be awesone.
22:56<mdz_>if directv is DVB, there are cards
22:56<Chutt>it's not
22:56<brtb>i was about to say that... but directv is encrypted with smartcards and stuff
22:57<OrangeSun>Chutt: but would it really complicate things that much? Can't RAM be *generally* used as a filesystem of sorts.. so.. for example, let's say that encoding takes up 90% of the CPU that is used by Myth.. and copying to HD takes 10%.. well, in this case, it would first go to RAM (no speed loss there).. then the oldest bytes could go to HD when necessary.. Imagine it like this: you get bytes ABCD.. That's all that RAM can hold.. When you
22:57<Chutt>orangesun, yes, it'd really complicate things.
22:57<Chutt>and, i really do think i know what i'm talking about :p
22:57-!-dmz [] has quit [Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement))]
22:58<OrangeSun>nobody doubts your knowledge.. but none of us are infallible..
22:58<taer>brtb: It would be awesome if there was a add0in card to a PC that also had a smartcard slot and 2 inputs
22:58<taer>like the back of my current TIVO.
22:58<taer>woudl be awesome
22:58<taer>and still have all the encryption stuff.
22:59<OrangeSun>taer: you should start a company.. callit TaerVo and go nuts..
22:59<taer>haha.. I doubt DTV would want cards made that could record via V4L.
22:59<taer>:)
23:00<taer>OrangeSun: might have worked 3-4 years ago... IPO and all./.
23:00<quantumz>and now we are back to segfaulting when trying to watch tv
23:00<quantumz>hehe
23:02<quantumz>mythtv is the best pvr for linux i have found so far, too bad about my speed issues
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23:05<mdz_>how big is a 640x480 frame with whatever colorspace mythtv uses?
23:05<Chutt>12 bpp
23:05<mdz_>so about 450k
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23:09<mdz_>seems like being able to fit a whole frame in L2 cache would show a disproportionate performance benefit
23:09<mdz_>but the only thing with 512k cache these days seems to be P4
23:10<Chutt>heh, yeah
23:10<mdz_>which is a big laugh for performance
23:10<Chutt>which is why having really fast ram helps
23:10<Chutt>it's just a ton of data being moved around, however you look at it
23:10<mdz_>yeah, I'll probably go up to DDR eventually
23:11<mdz_>eithet that, or exchange my mythtv box with my desktop :-P
23:11<Chutt>heh
23:11<mdz_>which already has 512M DDR
23:11<Chutt>i'm going to ask work for a new box early next year
23:11<Chutt>so i can just use the thing i put together as the mythtv box
23:11<mdz_>but if I could just squeeze enough out of the mythtv box to get it to do 640x480, then I could crank up the bitrate and do reencoding on the faster box
23:11<Chutt>instead of it doing double duty as my workstation
23:11<mdz_>you're running mythtv on your workstation?
23:12<brtb>how much l2 does an athlonxp have?
23:12<mdz_>brtb: 256k
23:12<mdz_>all the ones I've seen, anyway
23:12<OrangeSun>mdz: presumably one doesn't work when one watches TV : )
23:12<mdz_>while my PII-400MHz has 512
23:12<Chutt>well, it's more like the box i built to run/develop mythtv on became the machine i do most of my work stuff on
23:12<Chutt>just because it's really fast =)
23:12<OrangeSun>Chutt: what line of work are you in?
23:12<Chutt>audio recognition, mainly
23:12<aw>mdz_: sounds like you need an ia64 set-top box
23:13<Chutt>heh
23:13<mdz_>aw: if I wanted a really expensive slow box, I could get a P4 :-P
23:13<aw>mdz_: itanium 2 isn't slow...
23:13<brtb>p4 xeon maybe? don't those have like 1mb of cache?
23:14<brtb>>=]
23:14<mdz_>yeah, you can get P3 xeons with tons of cache
23:14<mdz_>we have a box at work with 4M on each of 4 CPUs
23:14<OrangeSun>audio recognition? what's that?
23:14<brtb>also expensive as hell
23:14<mdz_>yep
23:15<Chutt>name that tune
23:15<Chutt>but with a computer
23:15<Chutt>:p
23:15<OrangeSun>Chutt: the kind of stuff that was to keep Napster Legit?
23:15<Chutt>yeah
23:15<Chutt>that was me
23:15-!-_shad [shad@CPE00201888d549.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #mythtv
23:15<OrangeSun>Chutt: wow. on the one hand, you're "protecting" fair use.. and on the other, you're destroying it..
23:15<OrangeSun>I love the dissonance : )
23:16<Chutt>eh
23:16<Chutt>it's all about added value
23:17<OrangeSun>added value?
23:17<OrangeSun>what does that have to do with anything?
23:17<Chutt>you can do quite a lot of fun stuff once you know what a song is
23:17<mdz_>hmm, that threadedfilewriter buffer is only 2M
23:18<Chutt>it should be getting written to disk all the time, though
23:18<Chutt>so that should be plenty
23:18<mdz_>yeah, for compressed
23:18<Chutt>it's a bit small for huffyuv, though =)
23:18<brtb>oh, chutt... forgot to mention, all of the strange-behavior recordings I have seem to playback fine in the preview window
23:18<mdz_>definitely
23:18<Chutt>brtb, the preview window ignores the audio portion of stuff
23:19<Chutt>totally =)
23:19<brtb>ok so it's the audio part that's killing it. lol
23:19<Chutt>so, whatever causing the problem isn't an issue there
23:19<mdz_>Chutt: my theory is that before tfw, I was blocking sometimes (I would see jerky video watching live, not that I ever did that)
23:19<mdz_>Chutt: and now that it's not blocking, it's eating up the rest of that CPU
23:19<Chutt>ah
23:20<Chutt>that's quite likely
23:20<mdz_>because I really don't see why this code should be significantly slower
23:20<Chutt>before, it'd block
23:20<Chutt>and in response, it'd drop a frame or two
23:20<Chutt>and that'd be enough to drop your cpu usage down below 100%
23:21<Chutt>but now, no disk blocking, so no more dropped frames
23:21<mdz_>according to that gprof run that I sent you, out of a ~1 minute test of live TV, total CPU usage by mythtv was <1 second
23:21<Chutt>heh
23:21<Chutt>that's, well, wrong =)
23:21<mdz_>I'm not sure if I can trust it
23:22<mdz_>Chutt: that's excluding all the libavcodec stuff
23:22<Chutt>oh, hrm
23:22<Chutt>and the lame_encode stuff?
23:23<mdz_>I didn't rebuild liblame with profiling
23:23<mdz_>so presumably that time got charged to the caller
23:25<mdz_>it's so close, I can taste it
23:25<mdz_>maybe just using DDR would give me that extra push
23:25<Chutt>are you compressing the audio
23:25<Chutt>?
23:25<mdz_>yes
23:25<Chutt>does that push you over the edge, bandwidth wise?
23:25<Chutt>if you don't?
23:26<mdz_>haven't tested it recently, I've increased my bitrate since I last messed with it
23:26<Chutt>hrm, but i think you already tried not compressing that
23:26<mdz_>in particular, I haven't tried it with the new ringbuffer
23:26<Chutt>ah
23:26<mdz_>previously, it was too much I/O
23:26<Chutt>the new ringbuffer really should help, since it smooths out a lot of the smaller writes
23:26<mdz_>plenty of network bandwidth left, but it was blocking I think
23:27<Chutt>well, at least it should =)
23:27<mdz_>seems like it should
23:27<mdz_>libavcodec does all of its cpu detection at runtime, right?
23:27<Chutt>yup
23:27<Chutt>i need to steal all that
23:28<mdz_>maybe I'll go all gentoo-style and rebuild my system with i686 optimizations
23:28<mdz_>where's libc6-686 when I need it?
23:28<Chutt>hah
23:29<Chutt>i think libavcodec may be less optimized than other parts of mythtv are, though
23:29<Chutt>it uses its own opts, from the configure script
23:29<OrangeSun>well, good night my friends..
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23:29<mdz_>I just glanced at it, but it looked pretty aggressive
23:29<Chutt>i think it's just -O3
23:29<Chutt>no -march
23:30<mdz_>and they seem to have hand-optimized stuff for the most important bits anyway
23:30<Chutt>well, yeah
23:30<Chutt>they do
23:30<Chutt>i just meant compiler opts
23:30<mdz_>this direct rendering thing seems like a good target
23:31<mdz_>I should profile just plain playback and see what it's doing
23:31<Chutt>yeah, that'd be interesting to see
23:31<mdz_>the memcpys on that side should be much heavier :-)
23:32<mdz_>by the way, I get nexttrigger delays of just over 200ms on a fairly regular basis
23:32<mdz_>usually at least one if both capture and playback are happening at the same time
23:32<mdz_>203698, 206373, 209463...just over the threshold
23:35<Chutt>yeah
23:35<Chutt>it's because of linux's crappy usleep handling
23:35<Chutt>well, mainly
23:36-!-Namapoos [~soopaman@h24-66-52-13.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #mythtv
23:38<mdz_>does that mean that it's sleeping 200us too long?
23:38<mdz_>er, 200000us?
23:38<mdz_>200ms?
23:39<Namapoos>anyone here code in windows also?
23:39<Namapoos>'cause i think i may have stumbled on a foolproof epg
23:40<Namapoos>of downloading the data
23:40<Namapoos>by area code
23:40<brtb>what epg would that be?
23:41<Namapoos>the one from the evil empire
23:41<Namapoos>straight from the gemstar
23:42<brtb>how do you get that?
23:43<yebyen>Chutt: i could sure use a less cpu-intensive vis plugin ;)
23:43<yebyen>hehe
23:43<Namapoos>can't say
23:43<Namapoos>;)
23:44<brtb>Namapoos: if you can't say, it's gonna be a bit hard to use it
23:45<Namapoos>no, it downloads from gemstar
23:45<Namapoos>the tv listings per week
23:46<Namapoos>by your zip code
23:46<cowbud>in the mythtv frontend when I go to setup nothing comes up
23:46<cowbud>any idea why?
23:47<brtb>Namapoos: what does?
23:47<yebyen>cowbud: nothing is supposed to :)
23:47<yebyen>cowbud: hasn't been written yet
23:47<mdz_>Chutt: interesting, mplayer seems to use 3 Xv buffers
23:48<Namapoos>brtb, this pvr app i have in windows
23:48* Namapooscan't believe new england returned the kick for a touchdown
23:49<cowbud>how about this when I quit mythtv it does not shut off my TV card
23:49<cowbud>I still hear audio
23:50<cowbud>nevermind reading the faq for good times
23:50<yebyen>Chutt: ooh debs... *downloads*
23:51<cowbud>this program has a lot of potential sweet!!
23:51<brtb>cowbud - mute line in playback but set line in to record
23:51<cowbud>brtb: yah the faq helped me on that one
23:51<brtb>or whatever input you're using
23:51<cowbud>too bad my TV listings aren't listed
23:52<cowbud>I have like 23423 cable providers and I cant find the one that I get lame
23:53<yebyen>Chutt: if I've already got mythtv installed from source, anything special I should know about when I install from debs? like, do I still have to run mythtv-setup, etc...
23:53<cowbud>anyone started the project of creating an iso with this installed on it
23:54<yebyen>or did it fuck up my db, or what :)
23:55<cowbud>Now, let's connect channel sources to inputs on the capture cards??? what does this mean?
23:56<mdz_>yebyen: it will leave your db alone
23:56<mdz_>yebyen: you don't need to run setup again
23:56<cowbud>what is it trying to associate with my default input?
23:57<cowbud>or source
23:57<cowbud>?
23:58<yebyen>mdz_: fantastic... what's this about a mythtv user though?