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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2002-11-22

00:06-!-Markie [~mmusone@pool-141-149-139-252.buff.east.verizon.net] has joined #mythtv
00:07<Markie>Chutt, is there a better way to get the CVS than from the web interface?
00:11<Markie>anyone?
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00:21<Markie>damn
00:39<Markie>not a good night for mythtv ? :^)
00:43<lichen_>arg :( im workin on setting up my box
00:44<lichen_>i think everything is all set except trying to get v4l to find my card
00:44<lichen_>cause xawtv and everything says it cant open either /dev/video or /dev/video0
00:44<Markie>what kind of card?
00:44<lichen_>Matrox G400 and a Rainbow Runner
00:45<Markie>after you load the module, what does dmesg sy?
00:45<Markie>it ahould tell you the /dev device it's using
00:45<Markie>what module are you loading
00:45<Markie>(forgive me, i dont knowwhat a rainbox runner is)
00:46<lichen_>well its just the addon tv tuner for a g400... like i load videodev (which is the v4l module) then i load i2c-core and i2c-dev, and then i have a crapload of modules that are supposed to be drivers for v4l, so i run the script that came with that and it loads up a bunch of them
00:47<Markie>did you check dmesg ?
00:48<lichen_>yeah.. it didn't list any specific devices though
00:48<lichen_>it jsut listed a bunch of modules that were registered
00:49<Markie>what's in /proc/devices ?
00:49<lichen_>bunch of stuff, 81 video_capture, 89 i2c
00:49<Markie>good 81
00:49<Markie>ls -al /dev | grep 81
00:50<Markie>look for files with 81, <something>
00:50<Markie>ls -al /dev | grep 81\,
00:50<Markie>that might narrow it down
00:51<lichen_>yeah ther eis a bunch 81, ...
00:52<Markie>which is 81,0 ?
00:52<lichen_>video0
00:52<Markie>thats it
00:53<Markie>xawtv doesnt like it?
00:53<Markie>ohhh
00:53<Markie>who owns /dev/video0 ?
00:53<lichen_>nope :( it says open /dev/video0: no such device
00:53<lichen_>root:video
00:53<Markie>no such device or no premissions
00:53<Markie>ok
00:53<lichen_>no such device
00:53<Markie>then the driver didnt load
00:53<Markie>or isnt workng
00:53<lichen_>yeah im thinking its just missing the proper driver
00:53<Markie>(more likely)
00:54<Markie>unfortunately, i dont have that card so i woldnt know anything specific
00:55<lichen_>hmm.. okay.. well thanks for your help, im scouring the mailing lists right now
00:58<Markie>so you just got this and never had it working before, right?
01:05<Chutt>Markie: :pserver:mythtv@mythtv.org:/var/lib/cvs password is mythtv
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10:23<Markie>hey chutt
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10:29<lichen>holy shit!
10:29<lichen>i think i got too
10:29<lichen>got too? got it!
10:29<lichen>i thin ki got the drivers working for the tuner card :)
10:29<lichen>too bad i cant test it from here though :(
10:31<Markie>heh
10:31<Markie>what was the problem?
10:31<Markie>why cant you test it?
10:33<lichen>because the driver didn't build correctly.. and because im at work :)
10:34<Markie>no X at work?
10:34<lichen>hmmm actually i do have a slack machine sitting next to me running X.. i was hesitant though cause i wasn't sure if the video overlay would work properly
10:34<lichen>and thats just like one more thing i would be forced to troubleshoot :)
10:38<Markie>but you just want to see if /dev/video opens, right?
10:39<Markie>i thought the problem was non-existant /dev/video0
10:39<Markie>so just run mythfrontend
10:40<Markie>i dont know if it'll guarantee that it works completely, but if it does, at least you'll have a little happiness in your day!
10:42<lichen>er i just realized i would have to connect to my vpn at home from my linux machine, and im not in the mood to set that up :)
10:42<Markie>heh
10:43<Markie>you cant ssh into your home machine
10:43<Markie>that bites
10:44<lichen>well i CAN.. its just that its behind ip masqing, so i setup a pptp vpn server on my linux gateway so i can just vpn in from work and access the machines behind the ip masqing
10:44<Markie>blah
10:48<lichen>now i just need to figure out why mysql isn't using my config, its putting the socket file in /tmp/mysql.sock instead of /var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock where myth looks for it
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11:43<Markie>wnyknoe know anything about CVS access for mythtv?
11:43<Markie>anyone know anything about CVS access for mythtv?
11:43<Markie>heh
11:43<Chutt>it's in the howto document, like the guy said
11:44<nevertheless>je[[
11:44<nevertheless>jepp
11:44<nevertheless>arg
11:46<Markie>go tit..thakns
11:47<Markie>who said it's in the howto ?
11:47<Markie>i must not have gotten that mail yet
11:47<Markie>blah
11:47<Markie>thanks
11:48<Markie>heh..jsut got it :^)
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13:08<lichen>hey what in mythtv specifies where the socket file is for the mysql database?
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13:52<Chutt>nothing does
13:54lichenlichen_ Nov 22 13:54:43 <mdz> lichen: if it's not working, your libraries are not compiled correctly
13:58<lichen>no it works, its just not looking for the socket file in the right place
14:01<Markie>argghhhhhh
14:04lichenlichen_ Nov 22 14:04:29 <mdz> lichen: if it's not looking in the right place, your libraries are not compiled correctly
14:04<mdz>lichen: when you build mysql, the server and the library both get the same path for the socket built into them
14:06<Markie>freeken pain the butt..son of a gun..damn code!
14:07<Markie>hrm.. the mythtv CVs aint compiling
14:07<Markie>main.cpp:18: `cerr' undeclared (first use this function)
14:08<nevertheless>yeah an include is missing
14:08<Markie>yea, iostream
14:08<nevertheless>just add this #include <iostream>
14:09<nevertheless>you are running gcc 3?
14:09<mdz>Markie: do you have your changes merged into current CVS then?
14:10<Markie>mdz: 'm just doing it now
14:10<Markie>i'm having one last problem..albeit a big one
14:10<Markie>and trying to figure my way out of it
14:11<Markie>bascially, i need to cal SEtCallback in themedmenu.cpp
14:11<Markie>but the callback is in mytfrontend/main.cpp
14:11<Markie>so libmyth craps out with an undefined refernce when making the shared library
14:12<mdz>Markie: why would you need to do that?
14:13<Markie>ummm.....why.....umm.
14:13<Markie>oh..because the callback is set to TvCallback originally
14:13<Markie>wait..lemme think..
14:14<Markie>yea, thats it..
14:14<Markie>I need to open a different dialog.
14:15<Markie>themedmenu calls the callback to open the dialog for the TV menu
14:15<Markie>i need it to open my menu
14:15<Markie>i was trying to not compile my dialog directly into the library....just like the TVCallback
14:18<Markie>i kow what i'll do..it's a really bad hack but it'll work
14:20<Universe>bad hack? that doesn't sound good...
14:22<Markie>no actually it's fine
14:22<Markie>in fact, ehe i just saw where theres alreay a stub for settings in the tvcallback :^)
14:22<Markie>i'm just having it call the tvcallback ,and then in the tv callback, i'll call my settings stuff
14:23<Markie>which is i think exactly what he had in mind
14:27<Universe>so what are you coding again?
14:31<Markie>umm..the setup section
14:31<Universe>oh
14:31<Markie>making al lthe setup variables done through the front end
14:31<Universe>nothing exciting..
14:31<Markie>hey!! :^)
14:31<Universe>heh
14:32<Markie>well, i'm also doing chanel scanning
14:32<Universe>thats cool... better than editing the txt files
14:32<Markie>yep
14:32<Universe>next make the mplayer frontend for myth?
14:32<Universe>heh
14:34<Markie>yep
14:35<Markie>i was working with mplayer last night
14:35<Markie>thats my next projec,t mythvideo
14:35<Markie>that'll actually be easy
14:36<Universe>cool
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14:40<Markie>ugh
14:46<Universe>problems?
14:47<Markie>all the stuff i was workig on ,they changed it i nthe CVS version :^)
14:48<Markie>they changed function parameters to various stuff
14:49<Universe>ouch
14:49<Universe>so you have to rework all your changes?
14:54<Markie>yea..no bigg..just change the calls
14:55<Markie>ok, heres the setup catagories, am i missing any:
14:55<Markie>Setup Themes
14:55<Markie>Setup Channels
14:55<Markie>Setup Program Guide
14:55<Markie>Setup Playback
14:55<Markie>Setup Recording
14:55<Markie>thats it
14:55<Markie>date/time
14:55<Markie>?
14:55<Universe>yeah
14:55<Universe>well..
14:56<Universe>you should probably run a time update deamon on the computer anyways..
14:56<Universe>so you shouldn't have to touch the time
14:56<Markie>ok
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15:03<Markie>yea!
15:04<Universe>got it?
15:10<Markie>yep
15:10<Markie>sendingin the patch now
15:11<Universe>sweet..
15:11<nevertheless>im pretty interested in your stuff :-)
15:12<Universe>sending it to Chutt or cvs?
15:12<Markie>thats my next question :^)
15:12<Chutt>to me
15:12<Markie>ok..off it goes..
15:13<nevertheless>Chutt: did you recieve my mail?
15:13<Chutt>yeah
15:13<Markie>ijr@po.cwru.edu ?
15:13<Chutt>yes
15:14<Chutt>nevertheless, i'll look it over when i'm less busy with work
15:14<nevertheless>oki :-)
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15:24<Markie>bbiab
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15:27<Chutt>heh
15:27<Chutt>i like how he neglected to send anything to me
15:29<Universe>lol
15:29<Universe>nice
15:38<nevertheless>hmm, smth stranges is goin' on here, when i hit 'm' in liveTV nothing happens, but when i quit liveTV ('esc') then the epg opens up
15:39<Chutt>with current cvs?
15:39<nevertheless>jepp
15:39<Chutt>yeah, i might've broken something
15:39<nevertheless>oh :)
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15:50<Chutt>nevertheless, yeah, i did break that
15:51<Universe>good job....
15:51<Universe>j/k..
15:51<Chutt>heh
15:51<Markie>you're not a real coder unless you break things as much as you fix them :^)
15:51<Chutt>naw
15:52<Chutt>just something i didn't test
15:52<nevertheless>always and only the untested stuff is broken ;-)
15:52<Universe>thats not always true...
15:53<nevertheless>ok ok
15:53<Universe>heh..
16:18<nevertheless>you can tell the recorder, to record some time longer then the show goes, but is there any chance to start the recording earlier?
16:19<Chutt>i didn't feel like doing that
16:19<Chutt>should be easy to do, though
16:19<nevertheless>hmmm, I have to look, since almost every show here on tv starts too early
16:22<nevertheless>or would it be difficult to add a way to change the recording time of a special show? (somebody talked about adding a way to record without epg, do I remeber right?)
16:22<Chutt>dunno
16:22<Chutt>haven't thought about it, as i don't really need to do that
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16:47<Chutt>nevertheless, applied your patches
16:47<Chutt>and also fixed that epg stuff
16:47<nevertheless>oh nice :-)
16:54<nevertheless>did you ever notice, that --prefix from configure isn't working? or am i doing smth wrong?
16:54<Chutt>did you notice the first line of the output of configure?
16:55<Universe>heh
16:55<nevertheless>Chutt: nope ;)
17:01<nevertheless>oh, theres another compile error in settings.cpp
17:01<nevertheless>there is strKey = = line.mid(0, nSplitPoint);
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17:11<nevertheless>this damn geramik stuff has a biiig mem leak
17:21<Chutt>markie, just skimming your changes
17:21<Chutt>markie, there's no reason to have a separate mythsettings tabl
17:21<Chutt>table
17:23<Chutt>the stuff in themedmenu, where you trigger the theme change is, well, wrong
17:23<Chutt>changing it regardless of if the user actually changed the theme, that is
17:24<Chutt>and stuff should be attached to the 'setup' buttin in the tv menu, not an additional item on the main menu
17:32<lichen_>well shucks, i got my rainbow runner to act as a tuner, no audio in xawtv though :(
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17:43<witten>anyone working on automated commercial removal?
17:43<Chutt>not yet, no
17:43<witten>how would one go about working on it if one decided to do so?
17:43<witten>what's the tell-tale sign of a commercial break?
17:44<nevertheless>the programsigns for example
17:44<Chutt>that's what you'd have to figure out.
17:44<witten>programsigns?
17:44<witten>Chutt: heh
17:44<nevertheless>the logo
17:44<nevertheless>whatever that is called
17:44<witten>nevertheless: what logo?
17:44<nevertheless>or don't you have logos over there?
17:44<nevertheless>sek
17:45<witten>I don't have channel/network logos over commercials here, if that's what you're asking
17:45<Universe>we do but not all changes use then before and after a commercial
17:45<Universe>err not all channels
17:45<witten>oh, I don't see them before and after a commercial here
17:45<Universe>and they can use them right in the middle of a program too
17:45<witten>ahh, tricky
17:45<nevertheless>we have them always besides the ads
17:46<witten>nevertheless: that makes filtering easier
17:46<nevertheless>yeah
17:48<nevertheless>but i think I would not need such a filtering tool
17:48<sefudier>i think it would be quite impossible to make automated removal of ads
17:48<witten>nevertheless: why not?
17:48<witten>sefudier: why is that?
17:49<nevertheless>when watching records you easily could use the edit function to 'remove' them, this is really easy and fast
17:49<nevertheless>I would like the ide to loose half of my recording just becuase smth went wrong
17:50<sefudier>because, the existing scene change detection/frame matching algorithms give too many false positives
17:50<nevertheless>right
17:50<witten>sefudier: what about detecting the blackness between commercials and the show?
17:50<sefudier>unless you want to end up with all the comercial removed, and in 20% of the cases, 1/3 of your program removed also :)
17:50<\dmz>sefudier: combine it with other info, like caption data, etc
17:51<sefudier>witten: what about if a movie has a blackness between two scenes?
17:51<sefudier>what if it doesnt have caption data
17:51<witten>sefudier: maybe it's a different kind of blackness :)
17:52<\dmz>and commercials are usually 30s, 1min, etc
17:53<sefudier>hah, too many ifs :) .. i've grasped a while ago through a wavelet-based frame signing scheme to do scene change detection (friend is working with this now), and the false positives are just too frequent
17:53<\dmz>if you combine all the info you could do pretty good
17:53<sefudier>coupled with other data, you could eventually reduce that, but it wouldnt be perfect, wouldnt work on all cases
17:54<sefudier>maybe this could be done though
17:54<lichen_>hmm.. i getj ust a blue screen when i go to watch live tv :/
17:54<witten>so I see why no one is working on it.. it's a really difficult problem
17:54<sefudier>i mean, not automatic though.. just as a tool, to help you in the removal (lets say the algo runs through the file, and marks the spots it thinks are the comercials)
17:55<sefudier>like, selecting the intervals.. you would then check if its correct, remove the wrong ones and then delete the comercials
17:55<witten>it would just kick-ass if it could do it on-the-fly :)
17:55<witten>idealistically speaking
17:56<sefudier>here's what my friend has been working with:
17:56<sefudier>http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~wxd/draft.html
17:58<sefudier>basically, its exactly what you want
17:58<sefudier>though it doesnt work on all cases, need some improvements/adaptation
17:59<nevertheless>this ffrwd and frwd with sticky keys is dumb, i would prefer having the same mechanism like in the 'editor'
18:00<Chutt>so make it do that
18:00<nevertheless>:-)
18:01<nevertheless>I think, I'm not deep enaugh into stuff to do that, sadly
18:01<nevertheless>(yet)
18:05<lichen_>if there aren't any channels in the database will i just get a blue screen while watching tv?
18:13<witten>if "television" in mythtv has an input of "None" rather than your tv tuner card, you'll get a blue screen
18:13<witten>or if you're watching composite or something instead of television
18:13<lichen_>hmm, i could have sworn i set it to my cable definition in mythtv-setup
18:14<nevertheless>yes, the should be blue without input, but television, don't know
18:14<lichen_>like i hit c hoping it would switch inputs, but that only switches definedi nputs right? like it doesn't just switch between composite, television or svideo right?
18:16<lichen_>aw what the heck i ran mythfilldatabase, it like found all the stations, and then downloaded pictures for each, and remvoed all conflicting programs, now it looks like its doing it again
18:19<Universe>I think XMLTV changes for schedule changes, etc everytime you run it
18:20<lichen_>ohhh yeah i figured it out, it was doing like a week i think... i just ^c'd it since i had to rerun tv_grab_na --configure anyhow
18:21<lichen_>on an unrelated note, any idea why i wouldn't be getting sound with xawtv? i can play mp3s and stuff with mpg123, so i know /dev/dsp works.. but i dont get any audio.... do you think it might be because of the tuner drivers?
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18:22<witten>do you have your sound card's line in connected to the tv tuner's audio out?
18:22<witten>and the appropriate mixer settings?
18:24<lichen_>oh, no i dont, i just figured it passed through the syste, i didn't see any audio out on the tuner... xawtv -hwscan doesn't show any audio devices though, is that bad?
18:24<lichen_>ahhh so there is audio out!
18:24<lichen_>i am an idiot
18:24<lichen_>now i just gotta find a jack to go from one to the other
18:27<lichen_>haha nice! it works now!
18:30<hiren>I'm looking at the MythTV documentation and I'm confused about one thing. Do I not need two cards ? One a TV Capture card and the other a TV out card to view recorded shows on my TV ?
18:31<lichen_>i ran tv_grab_na --configure and change my grab settings, but when i run mythfilldatabase it still grabs fromt he old settings
18:31<nevertheless>if you want to watch your stuff on tv, you need any tv-out-capable grafic card
18:31<nevertheless>@hiren
18:40<Universe>lichen... setup is the program that sets what channels go into your database
18:41<Universe>and what channels are downloaded with mythfilldatabase...
18:41<Universe>I do not know if there is a way to change the configuration
18:41<Universe>other than running setup
18:41<hiren>nevertheless - I have an ATT cable box and I'm assuming that I would need to connect the ATT box to the Myth Box to the TV , right ?
18:45<witten>http://www.eeng.dcu.ie/~vmpg/papers/ICEIS2001.pdf
18:45<witten>paper on removing commercials
18:49<sefudier>ok.. i suppose i could implement this functionality into mythtv.. (scene detection/signature), you would have to select the scene though, that represents the start of your comercial. it would store the wavelet based signature in a database (just a few bytes), and when it is recognised again in the video it would perform a given action (stop recording, start recording, give a warning, whatever)..
18:49<nevertheless>hiren: i don't know, sorry
18:49<sefudier>witten: that paper uses color/luminance histograms.. its quite inferior to the wavelet approach
18:49<hiren>nevertheless, no problem, thanks for your input
18:50<lichen_>whenever i try ot watch live tv its sitll a blue screen, i ran teh setup and configured it to bind "cable" to the television input... also.. i cant seem to exit mythfrontend, alt-f4 does nothing (like keys.txt says i should use)
18:50<nevertheless>lichen_ same for me with altf4
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18:53<sefudier>witten: what do you think of the method i proposed? you would have some work to do at the beginning, until you fill your database with the comercial start/end signatures.. also, if your tv doesnt have common start/end of comercial sequences, you would have to do it by detecting the black-frames thing (used in the paper you mentioned)
18:57<witten>sefudier: hm
18:58<witten>sefudier: I think it could work very well, coupled with the muted audio detection
18:59<witten>the only problem I could think of is that most commercials here have black video / muted audio between themselves as well as between them and the actual show
19:00<sefudier>doesnt the show have some special sequence of frames before /after the comercials?
19:00<witten>none that I can see
19:00<witten>it's just black
19:00<sefudier>the show just abruptly ends, going to black screen?
19:00<witten>yup
19:00<sefudier>then comercial, black screen and abrupt start?
19:00<sefudier>thats fucked :)
19:00<witten>yup
19:00<witten>yes :)
19:02<witten>well when I get home I'm gonna watch some of my recorded shows very intently and try to see if the blackness between commercials and the show is different than the blackness between the commercials themselves :)
19:02<hiren>Anyone tried to build a Myth box with a Shuttle FS51G box ?
19:02<sefudier>ic.. the programs, at least here, have some common scene they show up before going to a commercial
19:03<sefudier>like, with the name of the program or something
19:04<lichen_>heres a godo question, when i run mythfrontend it finds all the probed devices, and then it sayas "sh: 3: command not found" .. any idea there?
19:04<lichen_>some script its running somewhere?
19:04<witten>hiren: no, but I was looking at Liam Li case
19:04<witten>sefudier: not necessarily (here anyway)
19:04<witten>er, Lian Li
19:05<witten>hiren: http://www.dansdata.com/images/llpc9300/pc9300520.jpg
19:06<nevertheless>witten: nice :)
19:06<witten>only problem is it's hard to find a place that sell it, and the cheapest price I've seen is US$115.. and no power supply is included
19:06<lichen_>also, going to setup in mythfrontend does nothing
19:07<hiren>witten: indeed, it looks nice
19:07<sefudier>ic.. another possibility of usage for this.. lets say you want to record a show in a station, but the schedule is pretty random.. i.e. it starts at different times every day (+- 10 min range), you could have it looking at the station until it finds the signature of the start of the show, and then it would start recording
19:07<hiren>I'm trying to figure out whether I can build a myth box using the shuttle sytem. I read on the list that one shoudl go for a good sound card and a good capture card.
19:08<hiren>This systems comes with only two slots open - 1 AGP and 1 PCI and the rest is built in
19:10<hiren>would the onboard audio - Realtek ALC 650 be enough ?
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19:18<witten>hiren: it may or may not be
19:18<witten>hiren: I've seen both fairly good and very shitty onboard audio
19:18<witten>then again, the same can be said of various sound cards
19:19<Universe>hiren... I am guessing those systems do not come with svideo or composite out?
19:19<Universe>so you will have to use the AGP slot for a video card
19:20<Universe>of course... its not possible to have anything else except for a video card in a AGP slot so it doesn't make any difference.
19:22<lichen_>arg whenever i try to watch live tv i get thsi error: channel '0' has no tuner (composite) and in myth ij ust get a blue picture.. any ideas?
19:22<lichen_>i have "cable" setup to define television on the tuner card
19:22<Chutt>hit 'c' a couple times
19:23<lichen_>i tried.. i only have one input defined anyhow though
19:23<Chutt>err
19:23<Chutt>how many inputs are on the card, though?
19:24<lichen_>3
19:24<Chutt>is television the first one?
19:24<lichen_>composite, svideo and television, no, third
19:25<Chutt>it defaults to the first one.
19:25<lichen_>even if the other three are assigned to nothing?
19:25<Chutt>right.
19:25<lichen_>like ther eis only one line in the cardinput table
19:25<Chutt>ok, what did i just say?
19:26<lichen_>okayokay.. but its still blue even if i hit c twice
19:26<Chutt>what's the osd say?
19:27<lichen_>nothing, it doesn't show up at all
19:27<Chutt>uh, sure.
19:28<lichen_>yeah, nothing :( i hit i and its still blue... i get a lot of "delaying to next trigger" while watching livetv though, i guess thats just debug stuff?
19:28<Chutt>no.
19:29<lichen_>hah well i know you havebetter things to od than to help some guy that cant get your stuff to work... any place i should start looking? i know its all correctly setup through mythtv-setup
19:31<Chutt>not really, no
19:43<hiren>where would I look to check that the hardware on the Shuttle box would be supported by Myth ?
19:43<witten>hiren: google groups.. put in "linux" and the shuttle model name
19:44<witten>hiren: that's usually how I figure out if linux support certain hardware
19:44<hiren>doing it right now. I'm more concerned about the audio
19:44<witten>hiren: btw, how much is the shuttle box w/ the mobo?
19:44<witten>hiren: well figure out what audio chipset it uses and whether that's supported
19:45<hiren>$869 with 256 RAM and 40 GB, DVD
19:45<hiren>http://www.centralcomputer.com/PriceList/Systems/Intel/Mini%20Shuttle.htm
19:46<witten>dang
19:46<witten>that's a lot
19:46<Markie>chutt, you there?
19:47<hiren>i''m interested in it for 2 reasons - small footprint -, it would fit in the TV room and also at a hosting site
19:47<witten>hiren: btw, I've had some horrid experiences with via ac '97 onboard sound chipsets
19:47<witten>hiren: weird form-factor though..
19:48<hiren>any recommendations for a PC that would be hosting site friendly ?
19:48<witten>I think I'd prefer something more VCR like in shape/size
19:48<Chutt>markie, yup
19:48<witten>hiren: anything in rack format :)
19:48<witten>like a 1U
19:48<Markie>can you tell me it again?
19:48<Markie>about the settings stuff
19:48<hiren>would I be able to fit a Capture card in a 1 U form factor ?
19:49<witten>hiren: hell no :)
19:49<Chutt>no
19:49<hiren>exactly :)
19:49<witten>hiren: but why do you want to colocate a box with a tv capture card?
19:49<Chutt>i figured it'd be easier for me to just fix everything myself
19:49<hiren>hence the shuttle box
19:49<Markie>ok
19:49<Markie>sorry :^(
19:49<hiren>we're trying to figure out a solution for a business problem which is interesting
19:50<witten>hiren: which is..?
19:50<hiren>the challenge is to capture a TV /radio broadcast via satellite and stream it so that a team of transcriptionits can transcribe
19:50<Markie>i'll wait for your commit..i wanna see what you fixed so that i can finish adding to it without you yelling at me :^) ;^)
19:51<witten>hiren: oh ok
19:51<hiren>or caption it
19:51<Markie>hiren: why transcribe? why not use the CC text?
19:51<Markie>it's alreayd transcribed
19:51<witten>hiren: well just use a standard ATX beige box.. no use paying for a pretty case if it's colo'd and no one's gonna see it
19:51<hiren>Colo's charge per the rack space you use
19:52<hiren>greater the real estate , higher the price
19:52<witten>hiren: right, but do any of them have racks build for little shuttle boxes?
19:52<Chutt>a quarter rack isn't all that expensive
19:52<witten>it's not like they measure the case width, do they?
19:52<Chutt>and you can fit, what, 3 standard sized tower cases in a quarter?
19:53<hiren>good question. I have to find out
19:53<Chutt>just buy 2Us
19:53<lichen_>awesome.. i got it working, now its like choppy at 480x480 using rtjpeg while watching livetv
19:53<witten>well do some research before you blow money on a pretty case.. unless you're planning to give clients a tour of the facilities or something :)
19:53<witten>lichen: try 352x240.. should be faster
19:53<hiren>2Us will get me space for 3 tower PCS ?
19:53<Chutt>err, no
19:54<Chutt>i meant for cases
19:54<lichen_>awesome ill try that, thanks
19:54<witten>lichen: what processor?
19:55<hiren>witten: good point. on a parallel track, I would like to have the box sit in my family/TV/home theater room and I wouldn't want to put a beige or a Tower PC
19:56<lichen_>1ghz
19:57<Markie>i got my videoserver in my attic
19:57<Universe>hmm... a 1 gig should handle 480x480...
19:57<Markie>it's too noisy for the TV room
19:57<lichen_>handle it during livetv?
19:57<Universe>what type of processor lichen? AMD, Pen, Celeron, etc?
19:57<lichen_>yeah i dont understand, its like choppy
19:57<lichen_>amd
19:58<hiren>witten: you indicated that you had bad experince with the AC"97 audio , so I guess the shuttle box is out as I can't fit anything else in the box
19:59<Universe>my 700 can almost run 480x480 with mpeg4
19:59<Universe>of course.. thats from the CVS with mdz's updates
19:59<witten>hiren: definitely.. a pretty case does have its place :)
20:00<witten>Markie: how do you have it in the attic and yet connected to your TV?
20:00<witten>Universe: I have a 1.2 ghz athlon and 480x480 is sometimes choppy (skips occasionally)
20:00<witten>352x240 works wonderfully and takes very little cpu time
20:00<Markie>written: umm actually i went overboard
20:00<witten>Markie: how so?
20:00<Universe>written: with the new cvs changes and mpeg4?
20:01<Markie>i have a 50' S-Video connector running down through the wall, and i also bought a ntsc modulator and i have it broadcasting to channel 65 in my house
20:01<witten>hiren: well it could be that the particular mobo I was using had a particular bad via ac 97 chipset.. maybe the shuttle one is better.. I wouldn't rule it out
20:01<witten>Universe: no. I'm running the last release and rtjpeg
20:01<witten>Universe: whenever I try mpeg4 it's visibily much worse than rtjpeg
20:01<Markie>then for audio, i just have audio out running down through the wall , and of course the modulator is also modulating it on 65
20:02<witten>Markie: nice
20:02<Markie>heh
20:02<Universe>mpeg4 actualy works better on my p3 700
20:02<Universe>now
20:02<witten>Markie: what's this channel 65 business? I don't understand..
20:02<Markie>then i have the serial cable running down too, for the remote control :^)
20:02<witten>Universe: you don't see any glaring visual artifacts?
20:02<Markie>written: just the default channel that the moulator i bought is set to.
20:02<witten>Markie: oh dear :)
20:02<Universe>witten: not at all
20:02<Markie>for $75, it couldnt be better :^)
20:03<Markie>it'll do any channel form 65-135
20:03<witten>Markie: what's the point of the modulator? I don't know that much about TV stuff
20:03<Markie>ohh..
20:03<hiren>Markie: A very interesting setup
20:03<witten>Universe: is mpeg4 encoding better in cvs or something?
20:03<Markie>well it modulates the signal on 65, then i have a combiner that splices it into the cable in the house
20:03<Markie>so all the tv's see channel 65
20:03<witten>hmm
20:03<Markie>can broadcast the movides, mp3's ..etc..to any tv
20:04<Markie>i love it!
20:04<Markie>i have 550Gig of hard drive space in it!
20:04<hiren>Markie: I should explore it , then I could have the box sit in my study and do double duty as a general purpose computer as well as a PVR
20:04<Universe>witten: yes... they were able to take out something like 3 or 4 full frame copies..
20:04<witten>Markie: that rocks
20:04<Markie>umm..lemme get the exact modulator..hold a sec..i know it's cablevision
20:04<hiren>Markie: Your setup is cool!
20:05<witten>Universe: cool.. I guess I'll wait til the next release and then give 480x480 another try and also mpeg4
20:05<hiren>Markie: I've been trying to figure out how to get a recorder show on to the TV in the garage and I think your setup gives me ideas.
20:05<witten>Markie: you should put up a site with details and stuff :)
20:05<Markie>channelvision
20:05<witten>we should start an HTPC mailing list :)
20:05<Markie>r-e1200
20:05<witten>if there isn't one already
20:05<hiren>Markie: I second witten's suggestion
20:06<lichen_>hey whats the ntsc resolution?
20:06<Markie>http://www.securityideas.com/securitycam/chanvise1rfm.html
20:06<Markie>good idea..i never thought of it..
20:06<Markie>actually it could be a case study/example of mythtv! :^)
20:06<Markie>for $77, the modulator is _awesome_
20:07<Markie>right now i'm running win XP and zoomplayer
20:07<Markie>but it's all sooo limited
20:07<Markie>thats why i wanna help so much with mythtv
20:08<Markie>the only thing that was holding me back was the PVR..that until now, was only avaialble in windows
20:10<witten>markie: what do you use for receiving the IR remote signal?
20:10<Markie>umm..i actually have a couple of things too :^)
20:10<Markie>i built the homebrew IR receiver from lirc
20:10<Markie>it's really easy
20:11<Markie>then i also bought (before i ran the serial cable) one of those RF infrared extenders.
20:11<Markie>the RF extender SUCKS!
20:11<Markie>dont buy one of them. it's was $45 and doesnt work for crap
20:11<witten>hehe
20:11<Markie>and in windows, i use "UIRC" for the software
20:12<witten>you should put up a page on how to build the homebrew IR receiver too ;)
20:12<Markie>it's on lirc.org
20:12<witten>I have an IRMAN ($35)
20:12<witten>really?
20:13<Markie>yep
20:13<lichen_>hmm okay, now my only problems are.. its choppy as crap, and i have no audio :(
20:13<Universe>did you try 352x240?
20:13<lichen_>yeah.. it was still a little choppy
20:14<Chutt>harddrive.
20:14<witten>lichen: turn off seti@home :)
20:15<lichen_>hahahah funny
20:16<Universe>do have hdparm
20:16<Universe>see how fast your HD is that you are using to store the files on
20:17<witten>and make sure dma is enabled for the harddrive
20:17<Universe>that too
20:17<witten>it just occurred to me that I should probably password my mythweb installation..
20:17<witten>I might come home one day and find my harddrive full of oprah recordings
20:18<Universe>lol
20:28<Universe>hmm... I wonder if radio shack has the parts to put the home brew IR receiver
20:29<Universe>err build the home berw IR receiver
20:32<lichen_>hmm, timing buffered disk rads, 1.96MB/sec
20:32<lichen_>s/rads/reads/
20:32<Chutt>see, that's just a _tad_ on the slow side
20:32<Chutt>my box get ~40MB/sec
20:33<Chutt>turn on dma, for one
20:33<lichen_>lemme hook up this other 30gig i have laying around thatia ctually plan on using to store stuff :)
20:37<Chutt>markie, it's in CVS now.
20:38<Chutt>if you have any questions about what i changed, lemme know.
20:42<Markie>thanks Chutt
20:42<Markie>Chutt, your 40M/sec, is that SCSI or IDE ?
20:42<Chutt>ide
20:43<Markie>holy cripes..what drive?
20:43<lichen_>yeah how the crap do you do that? my decent WD 7200rpm only gets like 4
20:43<Chutt>that's fairly normal for newer hardware
20:43<Chutt>lichen, i seriously doubt that
20:43<Markie>my brand new Maxtor 160G is only 29
20:43<Chutt>unless you don't have dma turned on at all
20:43<Markie>with the ata133 pci adapter
20:43<Chutt>it's a maxtor 80G, 7200 rpm
20:44<Markie>chutt, linux shold automatically have dma turned on, right?
20:44<Chutt>no, it doesn't
20:44<Markie>no?
20:44<lichen_>i believe it is.. pardon my stupidness though, but how i can check? hdparm -i shows all the dma modes i thought
20:44<witten>Chutt: depends on the kernel options
20:44<Markie>mine says PIO for the mode
20:44<Chutt>witten, right, and most distributions have that off
20:44<Chutt>lichen, hdparm -d /dev/hdX
20:45<lichen_>yeah it is off.. hmm
20:45<lichen_>on both drives.. good call
20:45<Markie> using_dma = 1 (on)
20:46<Markie>stil timed buffer reads 29M
20:46<Markie>it's only 5400 RPM..thats probably a big chunk
20:46<Chutt>not really
20:46<Markie>hrm..i'll test my wd tomorrow..i wonder what the issue is
20:47<nevertheless>hmmm, the current cvs crashes when switching livetv on with:
20:47<nevertheless>Couldn't find osdtheme: defaultosd
20:47<nevertheless>Segmentation fault
20:48<Chutt>works fine for me.
20:49<Chutt>make sure you did a make clean
20:49<Chutt>and removed any old libmyth* files in /usr/local/lib
20:49<nevertheless>i did (an uninstall)
20:50<Chutt>not finding the default osd theme isn't a fatal error.
20:50<nevertheless>ill try again
20:50<Markie>Chutt: did you add the qtThemeSettigns stuff for my stuff, or for your own stuff?
20:51<Chutt>for your stuff
20:51<lichen_>nice, with dma on i get 31MB/s
20:51<Markie>ok...i'll look through it tonight...thanks!
20:53<nevertheless>but the live switching theme stuff is neat :)
20:53<Chutt>it doesn't save it
20:58<witten>I just did hdparm -d 1 /dev/hda on my box at home and now it no longer responds to pings and my ssh session died :)
21:03<nevertheless>ok, the cvs runs now, don't know, what it was
21:05<hiren>can you guys give me some hardware recommendation ? I'm researching linux support for the REaltek ALC 650
21:08<hiren>My current configuration is - Shuttle SS51G, Intel 2.0 GHz, 512 MB, 80GB, GE Force MX440 TV-Out, Lifeview TV Capture and a USB wireless adapter = $1356
21:09<hiren>This configuration takes up all the open slots in the system , so the sound needs to work with MytthTV
21:10<nevertheless>if it works with linux, it works with mythtv, too
21:10<hiren>I don't see much data on RealTek ALC-650 on Google, except that it works with kernel 2.4.17 and higher and ALSA 0.9RC1
21:10<nevertheless>so better google for the linux support, don't think anybody here can help you about this question, sorry
21:10<nevertheless>so where is the problem?
21:11<hiren>One of the posts on the Myth list had suggested not to crimp on a Sound card and I have no idea how good the integrated sound is
21:12<witten>woot, found that lian li case for $109!
21:13<hiren>I'm admittedly not very knowledgeable about the features of diferent sound cards
21:13<witten>argh, and it's sold out
21:14<hiren>so I don't want to end saddled with a system which have all high end parts but the audio sucks. The lack of an empty PCI slot makes it a more difficult decision ( if I had one, then I would just buy another sound card)
21:14<witten>hiren: dood, get a case with more slots
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21:17<blahblechblam>Hi
21:18<hiren>witten: I'm looking at other cases now.
21:19<hiren>Any cases with a low fan noise that can be placed in the TV room ?
21:19<witten>hiren: you'd probably have to buy low-decibel fans and slap them on
21:21<hiren>on a different note, is everyone running MythTV as a dedicated box ?
21:21<nevertheless>i will do so, hiren
21:21<witten>hiren: I'm not. but I'm trying to build one
21:21<Universe>I am running one as a server/mythtv box..
21:22<hiren>Universe: please tell more, is the performance good and what is your configuration ? I"m assuming that it is connected to the TV
21:23<sefudier>im about to get one.. (tomorrow, hopefully)
21:23<Universe>hiren... is it connected to a monitor next to my computer...
21:23<nevertheless>ill buy my one next week :)
21:23<sefudier>ill go full atx though, dont care about a big box by the side of the tv :)
21:24<nevertheless>me too
21:24<Universe>it is a P3 700, running at 352x240 mpeg4
21:24<Universe>so it isn't a dedicated box for TV only
21:24<sefudier>i'd rather have more space, and be able to put in a live, decent tv-out card, dxr3, and 1 or more tuners
21:25<Universe>my Tivo is still alive and unless it dies or I get a better paying job, it will not be replaced anytime soon...
21:36<hiren>sefudier: what is dxr3 ? what would be a decent TV-out card ?
21:39<sefudier>dxr3/hollywood+.. hardware mpeg1/2 decoder card with tv-out.. can output divx also through mpeg reencoding and playback on the fly.. the quality i get with it is way better than with tvout of my video card.
21:40<sefudier>as for the video card with tv-out i use a geforce2 mx400.. cant tell if its decent cause its the only one i've seen, but its acceptable
21:41<sefudier>the problems are mostly geometric.. finding a mode that has a correct aspect ratio is a bitch
21:42<nevertheless>time to go to bed now, its quite early in germany ;-)
21:42<hiren>hm, so the box will have a video with TV out and also a drx3 decoder card ? Just when I thought I was getting the hang of all the hardware required ;)
21:43<witten>why do you need a drx3 decoder card?
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21:46<sefudier>well i had a dxr3 before i had a videocard with tv-out
21:46<sefudier>and since i get better image quality with it.. i decided to let it in
21:47<sefudier>so i can use it for mpeg1/2/divx, maybe running freevo, and the vid card tvout for mythtv
21:49<hiren>why freevo +mythtv ? Doesn't Mythtv do all freevo does and more ?
21:49<sefudier>no, mythtv doesnt have a module for movies
21:50<witten>wouldn't it be fairly easy to launch xine or something from mythtv?
21:50<Universe>which I think someone is working on it
21:50<sefudier>and doesnt have dxr3 support, which freevo has (i get better image quality with the dxr3, so whenever i can use it, its preferred)
21:55<lichen_>i just dont geti t, its choppy and its only using 75% of the system
21:56<hiren>thank you all , I learnt a lot today. It's time to leave
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22:36<lichen_>hmm.. i wonder why i would ahve audio during tv, but no audio during playing records
22:36<lichen_>hahah tampabay.rr.com.. i love there
22:38<lichen_>s/love/live/
22:50<blahblechblam>I'm trying to get this working for the first time. Running "mythtv" complains that "QSqlDatabase warning: QMYSQL3 driver not loaded"
22:50<blahblechblam>And ends with "couldn't open db"
23:08<blahblechblam>Hrm. Okay, got past that. Now it's complaining that "Cannot open DSP '', dying"
23:10<lichen_>looks like your sound card might not be setup
23:12<lichen_>during live tv my system+user cpu usage is like 100%.. i dont understand why thogh, one mythfrontend process uses like 80%, and the other uses like %20
23:12<blahblechblam>Well, it works fine, but not in mythtv. Is this the "str AudioDevice=/dev/" setting in the settings.txt file?
23:12<Chutt>the audio stuff's setup when you ran setup.
23:24<blahblechblam>Now I'm getting somewhere. I had to install the qt-MySQL package on RedHat also.
23:44<mdz_>lichen_: video encoding is very CPU-intensive, that is why
23:46<lichen_>yeah but its a 1ghz machine with 512k of ram.. its doing mpeg4 at 480x480 ... dont you think i would at least be able to watch live tv with that?
23:51<mdz_>lichen_: with 512k of ram, you can't even have one frame in memory, it will be hard to encode
23:52<lichen_>hahahahh..... okay typo, but im sure you can infer whati meant :)
23:57<mdz_>lichen_: 1ghz is not a lot for real-time video encoding
23:58-!-witten [~witten@sdsl-64-32-131-193.dsl.lax.megapath.net] has joined #mythtv
23:58<mdz_>lichen_: you can probably get 480x480 to be smooth if disable deinterlacing and audio compression
23:58<lichen_>yeah i was thinking of trying that
23:59<lichen_>i bet myth works great with smp machines?
23:59<lichen_>i wonder if my dual 700 could handle it better
23:59<witten>how does one typically get audio from a computer (mythtv pvr box, for example) into a TV set?