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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2002-12-31

00:32<mdz>Chutt: I think I'm confused about libmythtv
00:33<mdz>it's not clear to me what belongs there
00:33<mdz>I think that maybe I placed recordingprofile and videosource there incorrectly, and they should be in libmyth
00:34<mdz>or else some of the stuff in libmyth should move to libmythtv
00:36<mdz>is libmythtv meant to be purely capture functions then?
00:51<pheller>mdz: are you using a g[24]00-tv by chance?
00:51<mdz>pheller: no
00:51<pheller>okey dokey
00:55-!-PeteCool [~PeteCool@modemcable131.217-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #mythtv
00:56<PeteCool>I have one simple question: what do you use to put the video output on your tv?
00:56<PeteCool>That part of the setup looks like a mess, from what I found in the mailing list archives
00:57<PeteCool>Is a vga->tv converter the only reasonable way?
00:58<pheller>I'm using a matrox marvel g400-tv right now, and it looks great.
00:58<pheller>however, I cannot seem to capture and playback with this card simultaneously, which is really pissing me off. :-)
00:59<PeteCool>do you thing a simple g400 would work, if I use another tuner?
00:59<pheller>I don't even know the capabilities of the g400
01:00<pheller>if it has tv out, it'd probably work.
01:06<pheller>odd. mythtv runs fine standalone, however when called by mythfrontend, it isnt displayed, but can get keyboard focus by alt-tab, and keys work, etc.
01:06<pheller>any ideas?
01:07<TheAsp>what wm?
01:07<pheller>whatever is default with rh8/gnome
01:07<pheller>enlightenment maybe...
01:08<TheAsp>metacity probably
01:08<pheller>hmmh
01:08<TheAsp>sawfish does weird stuff with those windows if i swithc to another desktop and a window should appear, like the delete confirmation
01:10<pheller>ok, works with mwm, but mwm has font size issues
01:12<TheAsp>mwm has many issues :)
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10:41<Chutt>mdz, around?
10:42<mdz>Chutt: yep
10:43<Chutt>so, about the different libraries
10:44<Chutt>libmyth is supposed to be as tv-stuff free as possible =)
10:44<Chutt>so i think those things are good in libmythtv
10:44<mdz>hmm, ok
10:45<mdz>so the recording editing stuff needs to go in libmythtv too
10:45<Chutt>or the frontend
10:45<Chutt>if it doesn't need to be shared
10:46<mdz>since I assume this means that libmyth depending on libmythtv bits is a bad thing
10:46<Chutt>right
10:46<mdz>it is used by both the scheduler and the frontend
10:46<Chutt>why the scheduler?
10:46<mdz>hmm, no, I guess it's not there yet
10:46<mdz>but it has some stuff which would be useful to it
10:46<mdz>it encapsulates the logic for matching programs to a scheduled recording
10:47<Chutt>hmm
10:47<mdz>which is done by both the epg and the scheduler
10:47<Chutt>ah
10:47<mdz>the epg bits which do that being in libmyth :-)
10:47<mdz>(programinfo)
10:47<Chutt>right
10:48<mdz>so I have a class which is needed by programinfo, scheduler and some frontend parts
10:48<mdz>being in libmyth, backend and frontend respectively
10:49<Chutt>ok
10:49<mdz>also, that class uses the recordingprofile stuff, because it keeps track of that too
10:49<mdz>recordingprofile being in libmythtv now
10:50<mdz>so the least evil seemed to be to move recordingprofile to libmyth
10:50<Chutt>that's messy
10:50<mdz>I'm open to suggestions :-)
10:50<Chutt>i'd have to see the code
10:50<mdz>there's nothing particularly TV-ish about recordingprofile really
10:51<mdz>it's just a bunch of config and db stuff
10:51<mdz>actually taking those and applying them as parameters for the encoding process is done in tvrec
11:06<mdz>Chutt: say, as long as you're writing free software, why not start a retail hardware business?
11:06<mdz>seems like a natural fit
11:06<Chutt>mdz, so diff your stuff
11:06<Chutt>lemme see :p
11:06<Chutt>heh
11:06<mdz>it's still working itself out; I don't need to resolve the organization stuff just yet. I'll send you a diff when I'm happy with how the new parts work :-P
11:06<Chutt>ok
11:09<Chutt>i've been pondering combining libNuppelVideo and libmythtv
11:09<Chutt>and moving the guidegrid stuff into libmythtv
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11:23<mdz>but a teeny tiny case is SO CUTE
11:23<Chutt>heh
11:23<Chutt>right
11:26<Chutt>hey, run the backend
11:26<Chutt>and use your webbrowser: http://localhost:6544/
11:30<mdz>I noticed you put that in
11:30<mdz>why does everybody have to make their own pseudo-implementation of http? :-P
11:31<mdz>does it display any information yet?
11:32<PeteCool>mdz: is it you that said/wrote you had success with an all-in-wonder 7500?
11:32<Chutt>not yet
11:33<Chutt>bah, it's standard http, i just didn't want to put that data elsewhere
11:34<mdz>what does it do if I send a HEAD request to it? :-)
11:34<Chutt>absolutely nothin
11:34<mdz>probably close the socket immediately
11:34<Chutt>nope
11:34<Chutt>it should only close it after a get
11:34<Chutt>i believe
11:34<mdz>so it will hang?
11:34<Chutt>naw, it'll just say 'ok, whatever'
11:35<Chutt>and leak the socket object
11:35<PeteCool>mdz, you seem to know what you do, can I ask you what your MythTV comp is made of?
11:36<mdz>PeteCool: it's a PC in a desktop case
11:36<mdz>standard ATX
11:38<mdz>PeteCool: I use an all-in-wonder 7500 for output only
11:39<PeteCool>mdz: what tuner do you use?
11:40<mdz>PeteCool: a hauppauge wintv
11:42<PeteCool>mdz: thanks for the info :)
11:43<mdz>I do not recommend the all-in-wonder card unless you are interested in tinkering with it
11:43<mdz>it should be much easier to get tv out working with an nvidia or matrox card
11:44<PhazE3>I got TV-OUT working in about 5 minutes on a GeForce 2... I would reccomend that
11:47<mdz>Chutt: so you said that QHBox stuff was weird...what's the right way to do it?
11:48<PeteCool>the tv-out howto for the g200/g400 seems like lots of tinkering too
11:48<PhazE3>It is
11:49<PhazE3>PeteCool: I would suggest the GeForce series if you want an easy setup
11:50<PhazE3>Just plug in the tv out cable without a monitor and you have tv out
11:50<PeteCool>PhazE3: and you don't have stability problems with the nvidia drivers?
11:50<PhazE3>PeteCool: My box runs for months without problems
11:50<PeteCool>PhazE3: what kind of GF do you have?
11:50<PhazE3>Every computer I own has a nvidia card
11:51<PhazE3>PeteCool: Guillemont Hercules GeForce 2 Gts W/Tv-out
11:51<PhazE3>PeteCool: Like 50 bucks on EbaY
11:52<mdz>if the guidegrid moved into libmythtv, I think that would work out fine for my stuff
11:53<mdz>I'm a bit torn for the scheduled recording edit dialog
11:53<mdz>I'd like it to be similar to the infodialog stuff so that it's intuitive
11:54<mdz>but it can't really work the same way
11:54<mdz>because of the key bindings and the list box
11:55<mdz>unless it's a wizard with the list box on the first page, so there's nothing else to nav to
11:55<Chutt>the list box can be made to give up focus at the top and bottom, though
11:55<mdz>but then in order to give up focus, they'd have to change the setting to either the first or the last option :-)
11:55<Chutt>but, it'd still be weird
11:56<Chutt>you'd have to use l/r to switch things
11:56<mdz>right
11:57<mdz>also, do you think it's worthwhile to add something which would permit the user to delete recordings for which there is no program info?
11:57<mdz>like a timeslot recording for something that doesn't come on for the next week
11:57<Chutt>no program info?
11:57<mdz>that wouldn't show up in something like the conflict screen or the epg, so it would otherwise not be accessible
11:57<Chutt>well
11:57<mdz>obviously it wouldn't be possible to change the type of recording, only look at it and delete it
11:57<Chutt>i think the conflict screen for editing should show _everything_ that's selected for recording
11:58<Chutt>just the raw records, not when they're actually going to be recorded
11:59<mdz>that is possible
11:59<mdz>but I think it's nice to be able to grab a specific one, too
11:59<mdz>then it can be changed from a channelrecord to a timeslot or single record
12:00<mdz>and refer to that specific timeslot or program
12:00<mdz>like it works in the epg
12:04<PhazE3>Chutt: Would you be opposed to me starting a mythtv-hardware channel where you could direct all these people with hardware questions. I know that you and mdz get tired of answering stupid questions and I would be willing to help out. And it would reduce a little clutter in here
12:05<mdz>a general linux pvr hardware list might be a better idea
12:05<mdz>no need to associate it with mythtv at all
12:05<PhazE3>good idea...
12:06<mdz>ask Chutt, but it'd probably be ok to announce it to the mythtv list
12:08<PhazE3>Chutt: If your interested in out I set it up as #linuxpvr-hardware and let me know and I will shoot it to the list
12:09<mdz>I think a mailing list might be better
12:11<PhazE3>Yeah... Much better for tracking and archiving. I am gonna set one up _today_ and possibly a site? I want chutts appr before sending to the mythtv mailing list though
12:11<mdz>then it will be archived, and folks can find the information more easily
12:12<PhazE3>Maybe it can a lot of the cluter out of the mythtv mailing list... I get way to many emails a day.
12:24<PeteCool>also, a list of know good/great working hardware would be good
12:25<PeteCool>I can do an index if you send me your specs
12:25<PeteCool>It will reduce the clutter from the hardware mailing list :)
12:28<PeteCool>And you could send the url for that page with the hardware list introductory message
12:32<PeteCool>My idea doesn't seem very popular :(
13:21<paperclip>i like it..
13:22<paperclip>since i had that idea myself =)
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14:25<PeteCool>paperclip: and did you do it?
14:26<paperclip>no.. i was sitting in the tub at the time..
14:26<paperclip>which was yesterday afternoon
14:26<paperclip>tho i would be glad to help parse some data from the mail-list archive if you'd like.. =)
14:27<paperclip>i'd think a generic pvr hardware db would be nice..
14:27<PeteCool>hmm, yea...
14:27<PeteCool>It'll be weird, though, because I didn't even build a pvr box yet :)
14:27<paperclip>me neither =)
14:28<paperclip>which is good.. since i'll be researching a lot of the stuff anyway..
14:28<paperclip>may as well have public notes
14:28<PeteCool>yep
14:29<PeteCool>where might we host that list? on the mythtv sf account?
14:29<PeteCool>Who would we have to ask for that?
14:31<paperclip>well.. since it's a generic pvr hardware "survey"
14:31<paperclip>it's probably ok to put it just about anywhere =)
14:31<paperclip>i think sf will let you register for sites like that..
14:32<mdz>"oh, you want me to do a little bit of work to get this feature that I want? in that case, forget it, I'd rather get a satellite"
14:32<paperclip>so you could get something like linux-pvr-hardware
14:32<paperclip>but i'd wait to see what phazE3 does..
14:32<Universe>lol... nice
14:32<paperclip>or join/recruit him
14:33<Universe>mdz.. you want me to actually learn Linux before trying to get myth working...
14:33<Universe>i dont think so
14:34<PeteCool>Universe: myth isn't for the faint of heart.. yet?
14:34<paperclip>PeteCool: just from my lurking here.. i can say.. some people are going to have trouble with any/everything
14:35<paperclip>while others install it a few times a night just to tweak it..
14:35<Universe>myth isn't a double click install
14:35<Universe>mdz... you can quote me on that one... heh..
14:37<PhazE3>I will have something going _tommorow_ for sure... I got busy at work today and I am off tommorow :)
14:37<paperclip>PeteCool: for something like a hw database to be useful tho.. i'd think the new data collected .. like after the mailing list(s) are picked.. should be *very accurate*
14:37<paperclip>PeteCool: so a small script that grabbed some info like kernel/os/some pci info.. would be nice..
14:38<paperclip>and formatted it in a nice xml file =)
14:38<PeteCool>paperclip: yeah, but too complicated for now
14:38<paperclip>not really..
14:38<PeteCool>paperclip: over my current knowledge level :)
14:39<PeteCool>paperclip: what cards other than matrox g200/g400, all-in-wonder 7500 and geforce's are currently known working?
14:39<paperclip>for TV out?
14:39<PhazE3>there is a sis card that works... cant remember the model #
14:40<PeteCool>315 with the 301 bridge
14:40<PeteCool>paperclip: yep
14:40* paperclipstarts drawing up a flow chart for the info grabbing script
14:41<paperclip>PeteCool: sadly.. i've never used a TV card..
14:41<paperclip>VGA -> TV works for some people..
14:41<paperclip>i don't think i'd be able to sleep at night tho..
14:41<PhazE3>But it usually looks like crap
14:41<PeteCool>paperclip: I already started writing something
14:41* paperclipnods
14:42<paperclip>PeteCool: for HW detection and reporting ?
14:42<PeteCool>The vga/tv converters (external boxes) work bad?
14:42<PhazE3>I have used 4 or 5 VGA->TV convertors but they all worked for crap
14:42<PeteCool>paperclip: no, just a list of hardware I read work
14:43<paperclip>PeteCool: great.. maybe there should just be a simple html table or list for now..
14:43<paperclip>and then we can all decide on a database schema
14:43<PeteCool>paperclip: txt only for now... I'll give an url in a few minutes
14:44<paperclip>and then roll out the automagic detection
14:44<paperclip>and of course 4. profit =)
14:44<paperclip>i'm pretty sure there is some sort of hardware reporting stuff in debian..
14:45<PeteCool>I don't think all mythtv users are using debian
14:45<paperclip>heh..
14:45<Universe>they aren't :-)
14:45<paperclip>i doubt much of the code is debian specific..
14:46<paperclip>i just want to lift parts of it..
14:46<Universe>none of mythtv's card is debian specific
14:46<Universe>err myth's code
14:46<paperclip>I'm not using debian.. much anymore..
14:46<paperclip>but i remember that hardware survey type package..
14:47<paperclip>so forget i said debian =)
14:48<paperclip>i suppose any hardware that isn't detected could be hand edited by the submittor..
14:49<paperclip>tho we should maybe mark it as hand edited..
14:50<PeteCool>http://petecool.dyndns.org:8081/MythTV/pvrlist.txt
14:50<PeteCool>(very basic for now)
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14:51<paperclip>doesn't mythtv need alsa?
14:51<PeteCool>I'm not up to that part
14:51<PeteCool>in reading the docs
14:52<paperclip>heh.. well.. i'm not certain..
14:53<paperclip>and that could have been an old requirement..
14:53<paperclip>anyway.. i must go..
14:53<paperclip>i'm always here..
14:53<paperclip>so i'll be seeing you
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14:54<PhazE3>AverMedia TV98 Tv Tuner works well also
14:54<PhazE3>Sound card needs to be full duplex
14:55<PeteCool>even to only do recording, then playing back later?
14:55<PeteCool>would be weird
14:56<PhazE3>to playback and record at the same time
14:56<PeteCool>it's also needed for live-tv pausing, right?
14:58<PhazE3>it is need for live tv period
14:59<PhazE3>Live tv in MythTV is buffered. Therefore it is recording while your a watching
15:00<PeteCool>ok, I just didn't want to put any lies in there :)
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15:01<PhazE3>With my crystal audio sound I could record a show then watch it as long as nothing else was recording.
15:02<PhazE3>Then I switched to Ensoniq Audio Pci and everything worked right :)
15:03<PhazE3>Do you all get tired of "Well Xawtv works why doesn't Mythtv work" lol
15:03<PhazE3>Probably because Xawtv is not MythTV
15:03<PhazE3>lol
15:04<PeteCool>mplayer is used for playback right?
15:06<PhazE3>in myth? no
15:06<PeteCool>hmm
15:06<PeteCool>what does it use then?
15:07<PhazE3>Their own stuff Im pretty sure? Someone *Slap* me if im wrong
15:07<PhazE3>it using libav for encoding and decoding I think?
15:09<PeteCool>it's freevo that is using mplayer... my mistake
15:09<PhazE3>yeah freevo does
15:09<PeteCool>THey have some good graphics setup docs...
15:10<PeteCool>I'll point to that :)
15:10<PhazE3>I do not believe that freevo records yet? I dont even think it timeshifts
15:11<PeteCool>exactly
15:11<PhazE3>Plus they are asking for a cease and desist letter with a name like freevo
15:11<PeteCool>at least they took the time to make docs - though that time might have been better spent on coding at their current project state
15:12<Universe>Mythtv docs are good....
15:13<PhazE3>Yeah they are... they even cover getting the requirements installed ex. XMLTV
15:13<PeteCool>Universe: even for setting up TV-out on vid-cards? that's the only thing I looked at in their docs :)
15:13<PhazE3>Thats not a mythtv issue.
15:13<PhazE3>Thats a hardware issue
15:13<PeteCool>PhazE3: but it can help
15:13<Universe>well... considering that is different for every hardware there is...
15:14<PhazE3>Mytv needs to Focus on Mythtv... Nvidia needs to focus on TV-OUT
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15:14<Universe>PeteCool... if you want to take on that task, I am sure Chutt will add that information into myth... otherwise...
15:14<PhazE3>And I am sure the docs mainter for myth does not have a bunch of video cards at his disposal
15:15<PeteCool>I already started noting some of the hardware that works
15:15<Universe>but noting that it worked for someone and didn't work for another isn't enough must of the time...
15:16<Universe>most people that would want something like that packaged with their PVR software wants how to, step by step walkthroughs, etc
15:16<PeteCool>Universe: If I add a link to how the guy made it work
15:16<Universe>becuase they are too lazy to look for themselves
15:16<PeteCool>then, it's different
15:16<PeteCool>if the guy doesn't want to make any effort, why should the devs? they're already making the whole app!
15:16<Universe>PeteCool... and the same why one person got it to work may not be the same for the next...
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15:16<PhazE3>Yeah but it is hard to get people to write howtos that are understandable by anyone
15:17<Universe>different hardware... different issues that might happen
15:17<PhazE3>yep
15:18<Universe>if you don't know how to troubleshoot basic problems in linux... you shouldn't even try to tackle something like this
15:18<Universe>making howto's will only feed the lazy people so far until they hit a basic linux issue and they come in here asking questions
15:19<PhazE3>Yeah but how did you learn how to troubleshoot in Linux... I learned by tackling projects... and getting things working
15:19<Universe>which, most if not all of us, will direct them to read and learn linux, which pisses them off...
15:20<PhazE3>yeah... When I got into Linux it was because I hated Windows and wanted to Learn it... Not because it was the cool thing to use.. That was like 5 years ago
15:21<Universe>exastly... a pvr shouldn't be your first experience with linux...
15:21<Universe>if it is... you will hate it..
15:21<PhazE3>that is true
15:21<PeteCool>my first experience was setting up an ipchains/ipmasq router...
15:21<Universe>same here, PeteCool..
15:21<PeteCool>was fu***n hard, but very worth it
15:22<PhazE3>my first was a workstation I setup.... My first problem was sound :)
15:22<PeteCool>now, if I can get tv-out working on my 8500, windows is gone
15:22<PeteCool>but, mythtv could remove that requirement =)
15:22<Universe>mythtv works perfectly... so...
15:23<PeteCool>Universe: I don't have the hardware yet
15:23<Universe>ahh
15:23<PhazE3>I started using hardware I already had so If I did not like it I would not have spent anything
15:24<PeteCool>I do have an unused celeron 1.1A with 512 megs ram here, but the tv in/out stuff is missing
15:24<PhazE3>To this point I have only spent about $100
15:24<PhazE3>Get it working on a monitor to see if you like it
15:25<PhazE3>It is not for everybody... some people prefer to through their money at tivo :(
15:25<PhazE3>I like it because it gives me something to work on frequently
15:25<PeteCool>that's way too much money for a (somewhat) lazy student
15:25<PeteCool>yeah, that too
15:25<PeteCool>I like tweaking stuff... that's why I use gentoo everywhere
15:25<Universe>PhazE3... I have a tivo but wish I had the money to replace it with a myth box
15:26<PeteCool>Universe: you could sell it on ebay
15:26<Universe>but that wouldn't be enough to make the mythbox I want
15:26<PhazE3>I started out with a TiVo too :( Then switched to myth.
15:26<Universe>I have the first generation Tivo...
15:26<Universe>very small HD...
15:26<Universe>I have had it for years
15:27<PhazE3>I had a DirectTV *only* tv then I switched to cable
15:27<PhazE3>One of the dual lnb ones _even_ though they did not have software support for dual lnb's at that time
15:28<PhazE3>TiVo's are slow
15:28<PhazE3>Then menus take for ever
15:28<Universe>its not that bad on mine
15:29<PhazE3>Mine was terrible.... one time it took an hour to rearrange my season pass priority
15:29<Universe>wow
15:29<PhazE3>I know
15:30<PhazE3>I thought it was the unit untill I found out of friend of mines was the same way
15:30<Universe>how many season passes did you have?
15:32<PhazE3>like 25
15:34<PhazE3>who did the pvrlist.txt?
15:34<PhazE3>the website they linked a bit ago?
15:36<PhazE3>PeteCool: Alsa is not a req that I know of. I have mytv working with oss
15:36* PhazE3is away: The MonkeYs GoT me
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16:12<PeteCool>PhazE3: alright, I fixed that
16:12* PhazE3is back (gone 00:36:02)
16:12<PhazE3>Cool
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17:07-!-m0tion [~m0tion@cae57-187-007.sc.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
17:07<m0tion>anyone here gotten LIRC working?
17:14-!-Phaze [~phaze@Lynx.viptx.net] has joined #mythtv
17:26<rkulagow>yes, i've got lirc working (receive only though)
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17:32<m0tion>rkulagow: what kind of hardware?
17:32<m0tion>home-brew?
18:09<yebyen>yebyen@deskah:~$ uptime
18:09<yebyen> 18:08:17 up 16 days, 18:16, 3 users, load average: 0.94, 0.46, 0.34
18:09<yebyen>HEH
18:09<rkulagow>no - ir receiver that came with my pinnacle card.
18:09<yebyen>i hope I don't have to reboot to install my IRMAN
18:09<yebyen>if it actually gets here
18:09<yebyen>i ordered one, and I don't see anything on my credit card statement online...
18:09<yebyen>no email confirmation
18:10<yebyen>their site was slow as balls at the time
18:12<yebyen>i'd say it's about a safe bet my order never went through
18:12<yebyen>heh
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20:46<m0tion>damn, lirc is a BITCH
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22:03<jasongrichmond>hey everyone
22:05<jasongrichmond>anyone here?
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