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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-01-20

00:01<knoppix>poptix_v6: I just re-ran mythtv-setup (part of debian package) and chose /dev/dsp2 and /dev/video for Card 1? Sound okay?
00:02<knoppix>I already modprobed btaudio, so in a few minutes I'll restart all things mythtv and hopefull should be fine. No need to yank loopback cable I suppose since it does not harm now.
00:02<yebyen>hrm
00:02<yebyen>this isn't working either
00:02<yebyen>odd
00:03<yebyen>i'm missing macgyver too
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05:37<nevertheless>damn, whats up with that lindows guy
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07:48<giuppi>hi! to watch tv while recording another channel i _must_ have two capture card ?
07:51<nevertheless>giuppi: yes
07:53<giuppi>nevertheless is there any card with multiple tuners ?
07:56<nevertheless>don't know of any
07:57<nevertheless>don't you have enough pci's ?
08:01<giuppi>no i don't
08:07<nevertheless>thats sad, even better then the watch'n'rec feature I like the PiP stuff
08:20<rkulagow>i've seen cards that have multiple Bt878's on-board, but they don't have multiple tuners, so you'd need an external channel changer and feed a composite or s-video signal into the card.
08:21<giuppi>rkulagow so basically i can't have two pal tv signals ?
08:34<rkulagow>i don't believe so. like i said, external tuner, feed the tuned signal to the card and then take it from there.
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11:22<m0tion>when mythfrontend executes an outside program (like, mythmusic, for example) is there anyway to return to mythfrontend without ending the outside program?
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12:43<merf>does anyone know why mythtv just sits there and does nothing when i run it?
12:43* merfasks ambiguous questions :/
12:45<Conaz>How about mythfrontend?
12:45<Conaz>I guess I've never tried just running mythtv
12:47<merf>well, mythfrontend just hangs when i run mythtv
12:47<merf>i think it's something to do with my sound..
12:47<nevertheless>any output on the console?
12:47<merf>it probes, and then sets volume levels, and then that 'strange error flusing buffer' (which i assume is unrelated)
12:47<merf>and then nothing
12:49<Conaz>xawtv works?
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12:49<merf>yep, xawtv works perfectly
12:50<merf>however.. if i run xawtv, mute+caputre the linein, and then aplay /dev/dsp0, i hear no sound
12:50<merf>which is why i suspect the sound
12:52<Conaz>hmm
12:55<merf>i know
12:55<merf>it's annoying as all get out
12:55<merf>i might have to switch to freevo :D
12:55<Chutt>you probably have something like artsd or esd running
12:56<Conaz>freevo has nothing on MythTV :)
12:56<Conaz>It may be hard to get going, but it is very cool once it works
12:56<merf>artsd doesn't start, and i don't even have esd
12:56<merf>i'm getting pretty goddamn annoyed.. i really really want mythtv :D
12:56<Chutt>then your soundcard doesn't do full-duplex
12:57<Conaz><- been there, had to purchase a cheap SB PCI card
12:57<Chutt>might try alsa if you're using the kernel sound drivers
12:58<Conaz>I'm gonna tackle switching from my WinTV::Go card to the Matrox G200TV this week, so I'm sure I'll be in the fun with ya merf :)
12:58<merf>i installed alsa specifically for mythtv..
12:58<merf>but that's a good point
12:59<merf>i bet you twenty bucks this crappy isa soundcard -doesn't- do full duplex
12:59-!-Universe [~Yeah@pwc2-hs-nk.bbnplanet.com] has joined #mythtv
12:59<merf>well, i'll search for a pci one and let you know how it goes
12:59* merfmust goto school tho
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15:18<nevertheless>Chutt: did you look over my stuff in the meantime?
15:32<rkulagow>chutt: for the MP3 quality slider, you're using the same parameters as lame, ie, higher number is lower quality, correct?
15:40<knoppix>How can I scale the video playback window. If I type 'F' I get out of full screen and get a window, but resizing that window does not scale the video playback inside the window. I *DO* have DGA extension loaded in X. (vers. 2 of it)
15:49<Universe>you have to change the resolution getting
15:49<Universe>the video in the box isn't meant to auto scale
15:50<Universe>getting/setting..
16:20<knoppix>Universe: I presume I should change the 'capture' resolution in settings.txt? Can one set the resolution with v4lctl program?
16:23<Universe>yes... the capture resolution
16:24<Universe>and i am not sure about the v4lctl program
16:27<knoppix>Universe: thanks ... I'll give that a shot. In other news: MythTV is one rocking media-convergence system!
16:29<knoppix>I have hacked and tweaked my mythtv setup quite a bit over the past few months (no changes to source code however). I have enough info for a mini-howto regarding certain topics. Is there a way to register so that one can edit the documentation. (Presumably CVS access would be enough ...?)
16:30<nevertheless>better talk to rkulagow about your stuff
16:30<nevertheless>hee maintains the howtos
16:31<knoppix>okay I'll try to speak with him
16:41<rkulagow>knoppix: send me an email at mailto:rkulagow@rocketmail.com with the items that you'd like to include in the HOWTO. I'll take a look.
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16:55<TheAsp>mdz/chutt? Either of you here? Need to verify my understanding of the record channel
16:55<TheAsp>if the dates are null, it's a timeslot record, right?
16:56<TheAsp>or does the type column play into that?
16:56<nevertheless>hmm, here the date is not null for a timeslot one
16:56<TheAsp>I have both
16:56<nevertheless>so i assume it to depend on the type, but i don't know
16:57<TheAsp>i'm looking at fixing mythweb for the new db layout
16:58<nevertheless>hmm, i think the type selects the kind of recording.
16:58<nevertheless>i choose a record it all time and got a type = 3 and timeslotrecording ist type=2 so
16:58<TheAsp>hmm
16:58<TheAsp>*nod*
16:59<nevertheless>hmmm, always = 4, always on this channel = 3, timeslot = 2
17:00<nevertheless>the mysqlnavigator is a really neat tool for that sql stuff :-)
17:00<TheAsp>so is the mysql client :)
17:01<TheAsp>those nulls must be from when I converted
17:01<nevertheless>yepp, but my mysql skills are not that great :-)
17:03<TheAsp>can you show me a record for always record?
17:04<TheAsp>since you have one already :)
17:04<Chutt>nevertheless, haven't had time yet, really
17:04<Chutt>i was out of town for most of the last week
17:05<nevertheless>Chutt: hmmm :-)
17:05* TheAsplooks at chutt
17:05<TheAsp>hey
17:05<Chutt>theasp, there've been 2 sets of patches made for mythweb
17:05<Chutt>sent to the list
17:05<TheAsp>oh
17:05<TheAsp>hmm
17:05<TheAsp>either any good?
17:05<Chutt>i'd _really_ like someone to look at em and see if they're ok
17:05<TheAsp>ok
17:05<Chutt>i don't know php =)
17:05<nevertheless>yeah, i realized nothing goin' on the last days
17:05<TheAsp>i spose i should subscribe
17:05<TheAsp>neither do I, but that hasnt stopped me yet
17:06<TheAsp>can you send me the patches? the archive doesn't keep atachments
17:06<Chutt>i think the searchable one does
17:06<nevertheless>Chutt: unfortunatly i don't dare going on with my implementation before I get a confirmation of you
17:06<Chutt>nevertheless, i think things looked ok
17:06<nevertheless>I don't know, if you like the scheduler keep track of the idle status
17:06<Chutt>and i will look at it more soon
17:07<Chutt>that's fine
17:07<nevertheless>TheAsp: always record is type 4
17:08<TheAsp>nevertheless: yea, wanted to see the full record, but nm now
17:08<nevertheless>Chutt: but I'll wait for you to check my stuff, since I really don't know how to solve the two issues marked in my "patch"
17:09<nevertheless>TheAsp: the line is normal except beeing type 4
17:09<TheAsp>does php/qt support placeholders, like dbi does?
17:09<Chutt>qt does
17:09<Chutt>well, in 3.1
17:09<TheAsp>ah
17:09<Chutt>but i'm only requiring 3.0.x, so, can't use em
17:09<Chutt>i don't know php =)
17:10<-- Universehas quit ()
17:10<TheAsp>*nod* :)
17:10<TheAsp>were you refering to 2 seperate patches, or the 2 from that same guy?
17:10<Chutt>there's 2 from one guy, and another guy sent in something else
17:11<Chutt>i'm going to just check one of them in in the next couple days
17:11<Chutt>lichen was going to look them over, but.. =)
17:11<TheAsp>i'm looking at the latest one right now
17:12<TheAsp>patching file functions.php
17:12<TheAsp>Hunk #2 FAILED at 55.
17:12<TheAsp>*sigh*
17:12<TheAsp>not a good sign
17:12<Chutt>nope
17:13<TheAsp>what card do you use for tvout?
17:14<Conaz>is the current cvs in a fairly working state these days? been awhile since I looked at it
17:14<nevertheless>Conaz: hmmm, think so
17:15<TheAsp>is for me
17:15<nevertheless>PiP is kinda crappy
17:15<Conaz>Excellent, purchased a cheap G200TV I think I'll play a little bit when it arrives :)
17:15<nevertheless>but liveTV and video works quite fine
17:16<TheAsp>grr, why doesn't diff default to -u?
17:16<nevertheless>TheAsp: I hate that, too :-)
17:16<Conaz>hmm, I always use -c, I'll have to try -u :)
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17:24<TheAsp> if (smellsLikeMovie($proginfo->duration, $proginfo->progType)) {
17:24<TheAsp>heh
17:25<nevertheless>:)
17:28<TheAsp>hmm
17:28<TheAsp>well the guy who posted the diff's changes a bunch of stuff not related to the db
17:28<TheAsp>seems to mess with the interface a bit
17:29<TheAsp>and it doesn't apply cleanly
17:29<TheAsp>some russ guy is patching up the other one according to the list
17:29<TheAsp>have that installed now, but it's just the files, not a diff
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17:30<TheAsp>gonna schedule a few movies, since thats all i wanted it for, and see what happens
17:34<TheAsp>seems to work
17:36<TheAsp>doesn't show the [R] in the movie listing any more
17:50<aw>has anybody noticed problems when their ringbuffer fills up? (latest cvs)
17:51<aw>I think I've finally ironed out all my other segfaults, but if I leave it on the same channel and just let it run, I get a segfault in mythbacked and the ringbuffer is suspiciously right at 4GB (as is my limit)
17:51<nevertheless>i didn't come that far, but, when using the ringbuffer as a temp recording, I was scary about mythtv just crashing when the buffer fills up :-)
17:52<nevertheless>aw: which fs?
17:52<TheAsp>i havent watched livetv in weeks
17:52<aw>ext3
17:52<aw>I cat'ed a couple bytes to the end of the file after mythtv died, so I don't think it was the fs
17:53<nevertheless>ah, sorry, 4gb is YOUR SET limit
17:53<nevertheless>my fault
17:53<aw>yeah
17:53<nevertheless>honestly, I don't know how tested the new code is about this stuff
17:54<TheAsp>`are you sure it had just reached 4gb?
17:54<aw>guess I just have to change the channel more often ;^)
17:54<TheAsp>it could have wrapped around
17:54<aw>TheAsp: no, I'm not sure that it made it there in correlation to the segfault
17:55<TheAsp>*nod*
17:55<aw>I should set it low and my bitrate up and see what happens
17:55<TheAsp>i think a "random" segfault is more likely :)
17:55<nevertheless>I think Ill test that in the next days
17:55<aw>it's been so stable otherwise lately though
17:56<nevertheless>yepp
17:56<aw>the only other problem I have is when it dies from a btaudio buffer overrun
17:56<TheAsp>btaudio only works for some cards, right?>
17:56<Chutt>the ringbuffer overflowing around might cause problems with the current code
17:56<nevertheless>I have some random hangups, but nothing I could track down, yet
17:56<Chutt>i haven't tested that, yet
17:57<nevertheless>excactly my thought
17:57<TheAsp>hey! my card supports it!
17:57<aw>TheAsp: yeah, this is basically a WinTVGO, btaudio seems to work well on it (except for the overrun once in a while)
17:58<nevertheless>the wintvgo is the mono one?
17:58<aw>yep :(
17:58<nevertheless>I've got this one, too, but I couldn't get btaudio to work
17:58<aw>I have a really old one, I think before they actually started calling them wintvgo
17:59<nevertheless>I bougth a 2nd audio card (except the onboard one)
17:59<TheAsp>this all goes over i2s?
17:59<TheAsp>how freaky
17:59<nevertheless>aw: mine is very old, too :)
17:59<nevertheless>(2nd) to use my 2 tuner cards
18:00<aw>the subsys device id shows up as wintvgo though
18:00<TheAsp>aw: does it work with oss?
18:00<TheAsp>err
18:00<TheAsp>alsa
18:00<aw>dunno, I avoid alsa as best as I can
18:01* TheAspdoubts it
18:01<TheAsp>i avoid oss
18:01<TheAsp>:P
18:02<nevertheless>hmm, now mythbackend goes crazy again... takes 100%cpu without a client and no recording
18:02<nevertheless>and, due to no debug code, i cannot track it down :-(
18:02<aw>I'll probably switch to alsa when it gets put in 2.4 proper, or I move to 2.5
18:03<TheAsp>i doubt it's going into 2.4
18:03<aw>me too, but I won't exclude it
18:03<TheAsp>it's in debian though :)
18:04<aw>yeah, I pulled the latest alsa-source from sid yesterday, and all the saound proc interfaces were fubar'd
18:09<TheAsp>wfm....
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20:16<poptix>why is everyone bent on using alsa?
20:16<Chutt>because it works better than oss for a bunch of cards
20:16<poptix>oss has been working with 0 problems for me on multiple systems =p
20:16<poptix>well great, use alsa on those cards
20:17<poptix>use the best tool =p
20:17<Chutt>the oss stuff's deprecated, anyway
20:17<poptix>shrug
20:17<poptix>i don't see how
20:17<vektor>poptix: you're big on complaining, aren't you :)
20:17<Chutt>alsa's the default in 2.5/6
20:18<poptix>vektor: my qualification of 'working' for a sound device is the ability to grab and play sound
20:18<poptix>my emu10k works great
20:18<vektor>ok
20:18<poptix>_with_ artsd running
20:18<vektor>ok
20:18<vektor>so what?
20:18<vektor>i'm just curious what your point it
20:18<vektor>is
20:19<poptix>the point is that if it works, why pressure people into using something else
20:19<vektor>I think that's the wrong point to make.
20:19<poptix>unless 48khz sounds better with the alsa drivers than the oss drivers =p
20:20<vektor>You should be offering to maintain the OSS code if the developers move to ALSA.
20:20<vektor>I know that in my apps, I support OSS because I use OSS-compatible drivers.
20:20<poptix>vektor: maintain what code?
20:20<vektor>If I had ALSA running, then I'd use the ALSA API.
20:20<Chutt>i don't use the alsa api
20:20<TheAsp>alsa drivers work better for me....
20:20<vektor>And someone else would have to write the OSS code.
20:20<Chutt>since, well, it sucks.
20:20<vektor>ah ok.
20:20<vektor>So then what's the issue?
20:20<TheAsp>besides, the alsa stuff is just cooler
20:20<poptix>hah
20:21<vektor>The ALSA API is a pain in the ass.
20:21<poptix>it's cooler
20:21<Chutt>but the drivers work a whole lot better than oss for a bunch of cards, so i recommend using it instead
20:21<vektor>Ah.
20:21<poptix>Chutt: you're cool by association for using alsa
20:21<poptix>Chutt: =)
20:22<poptix>anyway.
20:23<poptix>use what works.
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20:23<vektor>use what you like.
20:23<poptix>don't rip your hair out trying to get the alsa drivers working if the oss drivers work fine.
20:23<vektor>don't rip your hair out trying to develop for linux when windows works just fine.
20:23<poptix>vektor: absolutely.
20:23<poptix>unfortunately, windows doesn't work.
20:24<TheAsp>luckily, that never happens
20:24<vektor>linux is full of people using software that is worse than something else, trying to make it better.
20:24<vektor>the fun is making things work, not using what works now.
20:24<TheAsp>everything i use is better then whats for windows...
20:25<vektor>TheAsp: hah
20:25<poptix>vektor: yes, it's fun to hack away at things to get them to work
20:26<poptix>but the alsa drivers don't offer any benefit over the oss drivers as far as functionality is concerned.
20:26<TheAsp>more things in the mixer...
20:26<poptix>at least not for any sound cards i have
20:26<TheAsp>atleast for me
20:26<TheAsp>plus i can use my 2nd dac
20:26<poptix>TheAsp: for my SB Live! i can remap all the lines back and forth from timbuktu and back =)
20:26<vektor>poptix: so why don't you port the emu10k driver to alsa?
20:27<vektor>i think there is an alsa driver already that is identical
20:27<vektor>is there something wrong with it?
20:27<poptix>vektor: why would I do that? it works fine right now.
20:27<vektor>i soo don't understand your point
20:27<TheAsp>he has no point
20:27<vektor>i don't think he does
20:27<TheAsp>but im still waiting for you to name something that i can do better in windows
20:27<TheAsp>:P
20:27<vektor>like what are you complaining about?
20:27<vektor>TheAsp: maybe you use your computer differently than i do
20:27<poptix>the point is that there's people who have no idea wtf they're doing, and people here are telling them they _must_ use alsa drivers
20:28<TheAsp>it's worded as recomended...
20:28<poptix>the alsa drivers are a pain in the ass unless you're using a dev kernel, which a newbie shouldn't be using
20:28<vektor>poptix: i guess you get what you pay for :)
20:28<vektor>free advice is just that :)
20:28<poptix>TheAsp: i recommend that people put a splintered broomstick up their arse
20:28<poptix>TheAsp: doesn't mean everyone is doing it =)
20:28<vektor>poptix: for many cards the alsa drivers are more maintained than the ones in the kernel
20:29<TheAsp>poptix: apt-get install alsa-source, cd /usr/src/; tar xvfz alsa-driver.tar.gz;cd linux;make-kpkg modules_image;cd ..;dpkg -i alsa*
20:29<vektor>so, in some cases..
20:29<vektor>TheAsp: that's not exactly easy or deterministic to work :)
20:29<vektor>TheAsp: i've had my share of alsa pain in the past
20:29<TheAsp>vektor: but it's in the readme :)
20:29<poptix>TheAsp: as opposed to 'modprobe emu10k'
20:30<TheAsp>poptix: for someone who hasn't used alsa, you are complaining alot
20:30<poptix>TheAsp: and do you really want to sit their and hold peoples hands to fix their compilation problems?
20:30<poptix>TheAsp: oh, i've used alsa
20:31<poptix>then i determined that it wasn't going to get me anything the oss driver didn't have, and simply wasn't worth the hassle =)
20:31<TheAsp>and thats why you are complaining?
20:32<poptix>i'm simply making the point that the oss drivers are _easier_
20:32<vektor>poptix: i stillcan't tell if you're complaining that the alsa driver offers no benefit, or that the alsa system (api etc) offers no benefit, or that applications should not support alsa, or what?
20:32<poptix>especially when you're walking some person who knows nothing about linux through setting up their system
20:32<vektor>do you think that alsa shouldn't go into the kernel?
20:33<vektor>or what?
20:33<vektor>or i guess you're complaining that anyone would suggest that alsa might be better?
20:33<poptix>vektor: if it's in the kernel, great, then $distribution will have the modules precompiled for $newbie to modprobe
20:33<TheAsp>why does linux have to be a newbie os?
20:33<vektor>debian does have a binary package for the alsa modules
20:33<poptix>at the moment, there's no need to tell $newbie to go download+compile alsa when the oss drivers are already there, and compiled.
20:34<vektor>but you need to for some cards whre there is no oss driver
20:34<vektor>it's not like the drivers are the same either
20:34<vektor>for the i810 onboard audio they are different, for example
20:34<TheAsp>*BLINK*
20:34<poptix>TheAsp: it doesn't, if you're proficient enough to deal with the errors without crying to this channel, or the mythtv mailing list, then more power to you
20:34<TheAsp>why would they be the same?
20:35<vektor>TheAsp: they're not the same that's what i said
20:35<poptix>if there's no oss driver then $newbie is has no choice =)
20:35<vektor>poptix: ok so your only problem is that someone recommended people to use the alsa drivers?
20:35<TheAsp>vektor: i think he's trying to avoid answering that question
20:35<TheAsp>:)
20:36<poptix>vektor: my problem is people telling newbies that they must use alsa drivers
20:36<vektor>ok
20:36<vektor>so, next time someone does it, maybe you could suggest to them that it's not always good
20:36<poptix>those people complain to the mailing list with a multitude of problems with sound
20:36<poptix>i mean, really, have you looked at all the sound issues on the mailing list?
20:36<vektor>I don't read the mailing list.
20:37<poptix>mythtv doesn't do anything special
20:37<poptix>it should be a no-brainer
20:37<vektor>Unfortunately, sound drivers are a difficult thing under linux.
20:37<vektor>Always have been, just like anything else where lots of people have different hardware.
20:38<vektor>And full duplex audio without dropouts hasn't always been simple either.
20:38<vektor>So I have some sympathy.
20:38<poptix>sound drivers aren't hard =p
20:38<vektor>Um, they are if you're a voulenteer.
20:39<vektor>And if you're trying to do low-latency stuff...
20:39<vektor>Look at all the soundcards with crappy drivers.
20:39<vektor>The emu10k is a classic example even.
20:39<vektor>I've had tons of problems with my es1371 since I bought it in 1998.
20:39<TheAsp>poptix: the only card i had that didnt suck under OSS was my SB1.0
20:39<vektor>The driver author and I went through a few rounds with some bugs :)
20:39<poptix>shrug, i've never had sound problems =p
20:39<vektor>What audio apps have you written?
20:40<poptix>heh
20:40<poptix>i wrote a perl program to spit out callerid once
20:40<poptix>(actually generate the tones)
20:40<vektor>Ok, and what full-duplex apps have you used?
20:40<vektor>In fact, before using mythtv, did you run _any_ full duplex audio applications?
20:41<poptix>i'm not referring to the API
20:41<vektor>What about full duplex with multiple applications?
20:41<poptix>i've done audio streaming from the line input
20:41<poptix>which included pumping it right back out the speaker out
20:41<poptix>i've never had any problems with multiple applications using the sound card at the same time
20:41<vektor>Ok, you've been pretty lucky then.
20:42<vektor>When did you start?
20:42<poptix>perhaps.
20:42<poptix>i've been using Linux since early '95
20:42<vektor>Wow, and you've _never_ had problems??
20:42<poptix>i'll admit, i didn't do much in the way of audio until mp3's came around
20:42<TheAsp>you've only had a sound card for 6 mo haven't you
20:42<TheAsp>:)
20:43<poptix>i've always used creative sound cards though =p
20:43<poptix>and some $5 sound cards
20:43<vektor>Under linux I've used a PAS16 ISA, SB16 ISA, SB32AWE, es1370, es1371 (x2), i810 onboard audio, ess solo-1, mpu-ipc-t
20:43* poptixtries to remember the chipset on those
20:43<vektor>And I've had problems with all of them, and purchased the 4front-tech drivers twice. :)
20:43<vektor>I've also written a few audio apps, and MIDI apps.
20:43<poptix>some ISA piece of crap =p
20:43<vektor>There's been problems with all of them.
20:44<vektor>MIDI drivers are the worst by far though.
20:44<vektor>And low-latency stuff.
20:44<vektor>Alot of the work on audio stuff has been for low-latency support.
20:44<vektor>Also, for a while I had two or three soundcards in the box.
20:44<vektor>Problems there too.
20:45<vektor>The ALSA stuff has been a looong time needed though, sound drivers are a nightmare under linux because it's so fragmented, and like you're saying, it's hard to get users to use experimental drivers
20:45<vektor>Since ALSA isn't marketed to newbie users.
20:45<vektor>There's no real work being done to make them easy either.
20:45<vektor>Nobody cares.
20:46<vektor>So apps that rely on the ALSA API get fucked (so nobody can use it without having to support it _and_ OSS)
20:46<vektor>And users get fucked too since they have to deal with all the crap
20:46<poptix>i'm not commenting on the API
20:46<poptix>personally, i think it's all rather stupid
20:46<vektor>And then the whole OSS-Free vs OSS-kernel crap.
20:46<vektor>Why do you think it's stupid?
20:46<poptix>the sound drivers should be using a common API
20:46<vektor>Um...
20:46<vektor>Yeah but the OSS API is USELESS for lots and lots and lots of apps.
20:46<poptix>there should be a sound server for 99% of configurations
20:47<vektor>It is no good at all for low-latency use, for example.
20:47<vektor>And there is NO MIDI API suitable for anything.
20:47<TheAsp>why the hell would you need a sound server?
20:47<vektor>TheAsp: because people need software mixing?
20:47<TheAsp>why?
20:47<vektor>because I don't like my system freezing because I go to a page that uses flash and have xmms running?
20:47<vektor>I want the flash audio mixed with the mp3 audio
20:47<TheAsp>but pop has a live
20:47<TheAsp>32 channels
20:47<vektor>pop?
20:47<vektor>what?
20:47<TheAsp>poptix:
20:47<poptix>TheAsp: some cards can't exactly play a 22khz .wav while playing a 44khz mp3 in the background
20:48<vektor>exactly.
20:48<vektor>you need a software control infrastructure
20:48<vektor>also for priority access etc
20:48<TheAsp>yes yes, but there is a project for alsa to do that
20:48<TheAsp>not sure how far they got
20:48<vektor>but it's too big a job and app writers don't like supporting it
20:48<vektor>and so it goes nowhere
20:49<poptix>if the sound card supports multiple channels, the sound server should be able to find out via the API
20:49<poptix>and instead of resampling the audio, just send it on its way
20:49<vektor>yep.
20:49<vektor>just like DirectSound.
20:49<vektor>TheAsp: there, Windows is better because it has a better sound API.
20:49<poptix>otherwise you give it a kick in the ass, resample it, and mix it in with the stream you've already got going
20:49<vektor>and applications use it.
20:49<TheAsp>vektor: :P
20:49<vektor>TheAsp: oh, but i guess you never use audio apps.
20:50<TheAsp>i do, but i like them blocking eachother
20:50<TheAsp>:)
20:50<vektor>hah
20:50<poptix>hehe
20:50<poptix>vektor: so do you see my point?
20:50<TheAsp>seriously, do i need to hear jabber making noise at me while playing tribes?
20:50<TheAsp>:)\
20:51<vektor>poptix: Of course, the situation sucks, but the reality is that the ALSA drivers are better maintained and support more cards so that many people should use them if they are technically proficient enough.
20:51<poptix>vektor: exactly.
20:51<poptix>if they are technically proficient enough.
20:51<vektor>Yeah, but dude.
20:51<vektor>I don't think you should necessarily be complaining.
20:52<vektor>You didn't write mythtv, you don't maintain the webpage, you're not the one devoting time to help people on IRC.
20:52<poptix>i think i'm just annoyed by the number of mails about audio problems =p
20:52<vektor>So maybe when _you_ help people, _you_ can tell them not to use ALSA if they can avoid it.
20:52<poptix>i do help people on IRC, and the mailing list
20:52<vektor>Ok, well, you come across like an annoying complainer.
20:52<poptix>i've been telling people to just use the btaudio module and skip recording from the sound card altogether
20:52<vektor>When of course we all think the situation sucks.
20:52<poptix>it seems much more intelligent to me =)
20:53<vektor>Well that's peachy. You go do that.
20:53<poptix>millions of peaches, peaches for me
20:53<poptix>millions of peaches, peaches for free
20:53<poptix>=)
20:53<vektor>Thanks.
20:53<yebyen>ok, this is interesting
20:54<vektor>No it isn't :)
20:54<yebyen>i haven't fixed the sound on mythtv...
20:54* poptixsmacks his forehead
20:54<yebyen>but i pinpointed the moment in time it stopped working, during a simpsons episode
20:54<yebyen>nothing to do with the recording device
20:54<TheAsp>and you are still using it like that?
20:55<yebyen>TheAsp: the sound isn't working, there's nothing I can do that I know of so far, heh
20:55<TheAsp>didny you say it kept playing?
20:55<TheAsp>when paused?
20:55<yebyen>TheAsp: huh?
20:56<TheAsp>must have been someone else
20:56<TheAsp>:P
20:56<yebyen>TheAsp: no, heh
20:56<yebyen>not me
20:57<yebyen>the sound got really loud for about 5 seconds, then stopped altogether
20:57<TheAsp>odd
20:57<TheAsp>:P
20:57<TheAsp>other stuff work?
20:59<yebyen>but if I turn up the mic input, i have the sound
20:59<poptix>question
20:59<yebyen>for some reason
20:59<poptix>do you have a line-in on that card?
20:59<yebyen>poptix: i've got a mic and a line in... the sound is coming through the mic
21:00<poptix>or an internal CD-AUDIO/AUX-IN connector to run from the TV card?
21:00<poptix>yebyen: you should try using the line-in
21:01<poptix>the mic input is meant to be used with a non-powered microphone, and usually gets amplified in odd ways.
21:01<yebyen>poptix: the mic input sounds better for some reason
21:01<poptix>really?
21:01<poptix>what sound card?
21:01<yebyen>last i checked
21:01<yebyen>sblive
21:01<poptix>er
21:01<poptix>weird.
21:01<yebyen>i'll try the line in for the hell of it, seeing how the mic isn't working with mythtv
21:01<poptix>yebyen: what TV card do you have?
21:02<yebyen>hauppauge
21:02<yebyen>bttv.o
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21:02<poptix>yebyen: try 'modprobe btaudio'
21:02<poptix>then tell mythtv to use /dev/dsp2 for audio input
21:03<poptix>instead of /dev/dsp
21:03<poptix>(it's in there with the capturecard settings)
21:03<yebyen>yeah, i tried that, it didn't have any effect iirc...
21:03<poptix>no sound at all?
21:03<poptix>or what
21:03<yebyen>i forget, let me try it again
21:03<yebyen>do I have to use the setup app, or can I use the main menu
21:04<poptix>do it manually
21:04<poptix>mysql
21:04<poptix>use mythconverg;
21:04-!-Soopizzle [~soopaman@h24-66-55-126.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #mythtv
21:04<Soopizzle>hola
21:05<poptix>update capturecard set audiodevice='/dev/dsp2';
21:05<poptix>(assuming you only have one TV card)
21:05<poptix>then type 'quit;'
21:05<poptix>restart mythbackend and mythfrontend
21:06<poptix>make sure you loaded the btaudio module
21:06<poptix>disconnect the loopback cable going into the mic input
21:07<yebyen>shit, works nicely :)
21:07<poptix>*nod*
21:07<yebyen>didn't work when I updated it with the setup app yesterday
21:07<poptix>note you'll still need the loopback cable if you plan on using xawtv or tvtime
21:07<yebyen>or I didn't actually update it
21:07<poptix>they don't do anything with the audio
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21:08<yebyen>i don't use this machine for anything but mythtv and a network server
21:10<poptix>well great now you have a spare cable
21:10<yebyen>heh
21:10<yebyen>i'm leaving it in for now, too lazy to get up
21:10<yebyen>and i've got both of those channels muted
21:11<yebyen>so there's no real need to take it out at all
21:12<poptix>i should just write a quick addition to the howto
21:13<yebyen>heh
21:13<poptix>i think it would solve 99% of peoples audio problems.
21:13<poptix>no fumbling with mixer settings, no loopback cables =p
21:13<yebyen>yeah, there are like 2 or 3 things that go wrong and confuse people (have confused me at least)
21:14<yebyen>so what's been going on in cvs
21:14<yebyen>i haven't updated in ages
21:16<poptix>lots of pretty OSD stuff
21:18<yebyen>are there screenshots? :)
21:19<poptix>i should make some
21:19<Soopizzle>agreed
21:19<Soopizzle>;)
21:19<yebyen>lets see em!
21:20<poptix>it's not easy =)
21:22<yebyen>yeah, screenshots of video is not easy
21:22<poptix>http://mythtv.sourceforge.net/mc/osdinfo.png
21:22<yebyen>heh
21:22<Soopizzle>yeh it is
21:22<Soopizzle>are these mockups, or actual OSD's
21:23<yebyen>what's new on that osd?
21:23<yebyen>or maybe my cvs is recent enough that I've got it already
21:23<yebyen>heh
21:23<poptix>snsnactually it isn't
21:24<poptix>er
21:24<poptix>fucked up.
21:24<poptix>it is relatively hard to get a screenshot from applications that use xv
21:24<poptix>due to the fact that it's using an overlay
21:24<yebyen>yeah
21:25<poptix>Soopizzle: they're actual OSD's
21:25<poptix>yebyen: it's the layout, transparency, and the fadeout
21:25<poptix>it's nice eye candy
21:25<yebyen>poptix: i thought i already had that :)
21:26<yebyen>i'm running cvs, just not very recent cvs
21:27<poptix>cvs update
21:27<poptix>make; make install
21:27<poptix>=)
21:27<yebyen>heh
21:28<yebyen>i think there've been some db changes since I last installed
21:28<yebyen>probably wait for 0.8
21:31<poptix>i'm about to submit a patch that will allow you to change the channel in the alternate EPG
21:31<poptix>yebyen: do you use the alternate EPG?
21:31<poptix>http://mythtv.sourceforge.net/mc/epgvideo.png <- this one
21:32<yebyen>i rarely use epg, i usually use mythweb
21:32<yebyen>but no, i don't
21:32<poptix>i haven't tried mythweb yet
21:32<poptix>yebyen: try it
21:32<poptix>i like the alternate epg a lot more
21:34<yebyen>does the current cvs warn you when you hit "watch tv" if it's recording something? i don't think what i've got installed does, though 0.7 before it did..
21:34<poptix>the current cvs does, yes.
21:34<yebyen>i may update just for that
21:35<poptix>it also does the whole 'myth wants to record so-and-so show in 30 seconds, would you like to [ ... ]
21:35<poptix>gives you multiple options
21:35<yebyen>yeah, 0.7 did that too
21:35<poptix>ie, don't record
21:35<poptix>watch and record
21:35<poptix>i never used .7 =p
21:35<yebyen>heh
21:35<poptix>well, i did for about 5 minutes
21:36<Chutt>yebyen, mythweb'll break if you update to current cvs
21:36<yebyen>i think it stopped doing it around the time that the network stuff was introduced
21:36<poptix>Chutt: what all is broken in mythweb?
21:37<Chutt>it hasn't been updated to the new record format in the db yet
21:37<poptix>seems to be a poorly maintained part of myth*
21:37<poptix>ah
21:37<Chutt>there've been a couple patches on the list, though
21:37<poptix>i should look at it
21:37<yebyen>Chutt: new record format?
21:37<poptix>rewrite it in perl.
21:37<Chutt>the original author of it's back now, though
21:37<Chutt>so he's going to be working on it again
21:37<poptix>Chutt: i decided i don't like the behavior of auto-tuning in the alternate EPG to the currently selected channel
21:38<Chutt>just want a key to trigger it?
21:38<poptix>Chutt: so i'm just going to give it a hot key
21:38<poptix>yeah
21:38<poptix>what key do you suggest?
21:38<Chutt>i dunno
21:38<poptix>well, i'm not using a remote control..
21:38<poptix>so i've got no idea what's accessable
21:38<Chutt>eh, don't worry about that
21:39<poptix>mmkay.
21:39<poptix>it can always be changed later i suppose.
21:39<Chutt>it's an 'extended' function
21:39<poptix>i'll submit a patch tonight if the girlfriend doesn't confiscate my time.
21:39<Chutt>more, and there's no exisiting key that i can think of that could be used
21:39<Chutt>so, just pick something that's unused elsewhere
21:40<poptix>alright.
22:02<rkulagow>chutt, would you accept a patch that sets the the various mixer settings using the OSS API rather than telling people to use kmix or the alsamixer application? I'm thinking the easy stuff, like setting master volume, and setting the capture source.
22:03-!-Conaz [~Conaz@c66.188.155.175.stc.mn.charter.com] has joined #mythtv
22:03<knoppix>Chutt == Isaac Richard ?
22:04<Conaz>If he's not he certainly has alot of knowledge about MythTV :)
22:06<-- knoppix(~knoppix@h00a024e2b5d6.ne.client2.attbi.com) has left #mythtv ("Client Exiting")
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22:11<TheAsp>chutt is actually a clone
22:12<TheAsp>oh, he's gone
22:14<poptix>this is great
22:14<poptix>my girlfriend is cleaning my entire apartment
22:31-!-moegreen [jdanner@pa-steclge-u2-c3a-154.stcgpa.adelphia.net] has joined #mythtv
22:44<yebyen>damned sa
22:44<yebyen>err, damned saq
23:15<rkulagow>chutt, you there?
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