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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-03-21

00:05<thor_>Chutt, one outstanding issue if you're still up
00:06<Chutt>yeah, for a little while longer
00:06<thor_>OK, say you have a playlist up in the tree (upper half)
00:06<thor_>And you want to edit
00:06<thor_>you go up, hit i, get a popup, and select Make Current
00:07<thor_>In the tree it gets grayed out and it becomes the UP/DOWN stuff at the bottom
00:07<Chutt>edit as in move stuff around?
00:07<thor_>with me so far
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00:07<Chutt>why can't it just do the stuff it was doing down below?
00:07<thor_>yes, edit as in Current Queue, move stuff around
00:08<thor_>because you can't add tracks if it isn't "current"
00:08<thor_>So ... yeah .. edit as in add tracks and/or move around
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00:09<thor_>Now, you add some tracks, everything is honky dorry, you watch some MythTV and go to sleep :-)
00:09<thor_>Come back next day, want to save "Active" as what it was, but can't remember
00:10<thor_>One possible solution:
00:11<thor_>If Active is the result of a move to Active, have the root of it say "Current Queue (was "The Name")", something like that
00:11<Chutt>have it auto save back?
00:11<thor_>not auto, but as a popup
00:12<Chutt>Save Back to Original Playlist
00:12<Chutt>or something?
00:12<Chutt>that'd work, i think
00:12<thor_>yes, but need to persist that somewhere
00:12<Chutt>ah
00:12<Chutt>yeah
00:12<thor_>can either change the id in the table and key off default_playlist_storage
00:12<thor_>of change name and key off id == 1
00:13<thor_>or add a colum
00:13<Chutt>the first two are kinda hacky
00:13<thor_>should really go in settings
00:13<Chutt>so, adding a column, or even just a normal setting for it (non user-editable, of course)
00:14<Chutt>LastMusicPlaylistWas == <id>
00:14<Chutt>or null for nothing or something
00:14<thor_>yup, ok, that was all I wanted to check, will send you code tomorrow ..... thanks
00:14<Chutt>cool
00:15<thor_>one tiny last thing, does gContext-> handle which host is asking automagically?
00:15<Chutt>yeah
00:15<thor_>great
00:15<thor_>night
00:15<Chutt>the normal GetSettings() does that
00:15<Chutt>you can ask for a specific host, too
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02:00<rkulagow>compusa 6 hour sale starts later today, but why wait when you can get a 175GB hard drive for $99 after rebates?
02:00<rkulagow>http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product%5Fcode=301996&csearch=1&cmid=gosku&pfp=srch1
02:01<bigguy>nice
02:01<bigguy>I wish I had the $$$
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04:01<datadevil>hi
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05:31<datadevil>anyone inhere use tvout under linux, and know a good card to use for it?
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13:26<rkulagow>chutt, are you here?
13:26<Chutt>yup
13:27<rkulagow>hey; could you please sync cvs docs to main website?
13:27<Chutt>sure
13:31<thor_>Chutt, can you think of anything I'll break if I add an infoPressed() and/or numberPressed() signal to MythListView in libmyth?
13:32<Chutt>nope
13:32<thor_>good (need keypress to activate popups)
13:33<rkulagow>chutt: thanks
13:37<Chutt>rkulagow, all updated
14:03<bigguy>Chutt: you could cron the updating of docs right?
14:03<Chutt>not quite, no
14:04<rkulagow>chutt: do you remember who's running the gossamer-threads archive?
14:04<Chutt>nope
14:05<Chutt>thor, hey, in lcddevice.cpp
14:05<Chutt>you've got two different fallbacks, don't you?
14:05<Chutt>for 3.1.x, you close the socket, for 3.0, you delete it
14:06<Chutt>won't that break stuff?
14:08<rkulagow>nate ziarek, are you here?
14:21<thor_>Chutt, no I downgraded Qt, tested with the delete, and it worked fine
14:21<Chutt>ok
14:21<Chutt>just wasn't sure if there'd be any trouble with it getting deleted then being assumed it was still there later on
14:22<thor_>None of the writes go through if connected is not true, so deleting the socket is not an issue
14:22<Chutt>ah, ok
14:22<thor_>Only way you might have a problem is if you diabolically started LCDd after the initial fail but before the socket was deleted
14:23<choenig>hmmm, how come, mythtv is scaling that bad...
14:23<choenig>when I record (or livetv) one video, my system runs at about 30PU, but if I start a second one, it takes 100%cpu. same with watching one on the backendhost and one on another host.
14:23<choenig>arg
14:23<choenig>30% CPU
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14:38<rkulagow>nathan: the docs on the website have been updated. can you mail me a .pdf please?
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14:39<nziarek>sure, but I won't be home until Sunday. Get it to you first thing, though
14:39<rkulagow>ok
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16:00<merf>can someone gimme a hand with mythepg? it seems pretty touchy about when it'll get data from mysql :/
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16:01<moegreen>merf: what is it doing?
16:01<merf>moegreen: sometimes it works perfectly (and it's DAMN cool :D)
16:02<merf>but other times it just says 'Unknown (Unknown)' for everything
16:02<merf>however, mythfilldatabase has been run regularly and i can select the data from the database, so i know it's there
16:02<moegreen>merf: An unknown program is when there is no data in the mysql database for that showtime.
16:02<moegreen>did you look at your fill log to see if there are any errors?
16:03<merf>moegreen: i ran it myself a minute ago, i didn't notice anything abnormal
16:04<merf>there's this: possible candidate for program detail we didn't identify (Pa.)
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16:37<rmj>chutt: I'm having some issues trying to dynamically alter deinterlacing strategy (my experimental bob stuff), i.e. changing frame size dynamically makes myth unhappy, i've tried changing state to NONE then back to WatchingTV in TVRec but I suspect I need to reset things in the player as well, any advice on exactly what I have to do to get the new frame size recognized by both the recorder and player at the same time (short of restarting the
17:05<Chutt>heh
17:05<Chutt>i'm not really sure
17:05<Chutt>it's not really designed to alter frame size on the fly
17:06<Chutt>you'd basically have to shut the player down, and restart it
17:06<Chutt>since all of the display buffers and everything would have to be reallocated
17:12<rmj>hmmm, which part of the system has the handle on the player which needs to be restarted, there is a fairly
17:13<Chutt>like, everything
17:13<rmj>long communications path between the player and the recorder so I'm not sure at which point I should be trying to re-init it.
17:13<Chutt>the video output, frame reading code
17:13<Chutt>i don't really think it makes much sense to flip on the fly like that
17:15<rmj>fair enough, it was mainly to make testing each strategy very quickly after eachother (to increase the ease with which to see quality differences), its probably less useful in a production system.
17:15<Chutt>yeah
17:16<rmj>btw could you give a bit more detail on what the quality decrease you were seeing with the patch? You mentioned text issues, can you explain those in a bit more detail?
17:16<Chutt>well
17:16<Chutt>mainly, mpeg4 compression artifacts were much more noticeable
17:16<Chutt>ringing around text, etc
17:17<rmj>yes that doesn't suprise me because of the fields bobbing up and down slightly, I see a noticeable shimmer over the whole screen at very high bit rates but at lower bitrates I think mpeg4 is losing lots of its bits in encoding the slight one-line differences between the frames so it doesn't have enough bits left to encode the actual scene well.
17:19<rmj>fixing the problem is not as easy as I'd hoped. I was hoping moving the bottom field down one that after scaling x-video would have the lines from each field aligned correctly but x-video probably has a fairly sophisticated scaling algo which doesn't end up like this (a simple line doubline would have done the trick). I'm going to experiment with line double the new fields both before and after encoding to see if I can improve this.
17:20<rmj>doubline = doubling
17:20<Chutt>weaving?
17:22<rmj>I'm not sure weaving is the same thing, I thought weaving meant taking the non-moving parts of both
17:22<rmj>fields and doing something else with the moving bits but I'm not sure so what i've just described might be weaving ;-)
17:23<rmj>I'm a bit concered about passing full frames through the encoders but I can see how it goes, I can also steal
17:24<rmj>some mmx code to do bobbing with full frame size (xine and transcode has one of these that looks like it works in yuv420)
17:26<rmj>(although they've introduced a bug into the code (they ported it from dscaler) which means they are just dropping every second field (which can look ok, it removes interlacing artefacts but decreases smoothness)
17:26<Chutt>heh
17:27<rmj>I was also wondering, do you see interlacing problems on your tv when looking at sports material with mythtv?
17:27<Chutt>nope
17:28<rmj>yup, I figure the g400 in clone mode is doing something different to some of the nvidia setups.
17:29<rmj>do you run in a mode which clones your computer display or do you have a true dual-head output where the computer and tv are different screens?
17:29<Chutt>when i have it hooked up to the tv, that's the only display
17:31<rmj>ok, this is probably the difference, the card knows its sending to an interlaced device so the interlaced frames you've captured from the card and presented as two fields straight to the tv-out rather than to the progressive monitor then cloned out. This is the problem which the directfb code attempts to solve.
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17:31<rmj>it creates an interlaced fb to output directly to hence solving the problem.
17:32<rmj>I dont suppose you've noticed if you see interlacing artefacts in fast moving sports programs on your computer monitor?
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17:34<rkulagow_>this was on the v4l list:
17:34<rkulagow_>"I was looking at the myth-tv project for a while, but they do all their mpeg
17:34<rkulagow_>encoding in software, and they have problems with the audio and video losing
17:34<rkulagow_>sync. :("
17:34<rkulagow_>we do?
17:35<rkulagow_>duh, next message is isaac.
17:36<Chutt>rmj, of course
17:37<rkulagow_>what's the "of course" refer to. have i missed some sort of scandal?
17:37<Chutt>nope
17:37<Chutt>just discussing the deinterlacing stuff he's working on
17:37<rmj>ok just making sure that some tv cards do deinterlacing on board whilst others don't
17:38<rmj>anyway I think i'll keep trying to get this a bit better coz I'm sure progressive output devices will become more common as tv's in the near future so its worth having even if only g400 ppl get a benefit for now.
17:42<Chutt>yeah, i agree
17:42<Chutt>i just don't want quality to be worse =)
17:43<rmj>of course, :-)
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19:54<WAAB>Looking into MythTV to replace my existing ReplayTV home system. Can someone help me with a few questions?
19:56<thor_>Ask away, but you probably will not get much feedback for questions that are already answered in the docs
20:03<WAAB>Thor_: Well I saw the recent announcement of ver 0.8, which mentions split encoding/playback. What I want to know is how this is presented to the user. For instance if I have a unit in each room, do I have to "copy" shows from one unit to another, or are they all presented as a unified show library?
20:05<thor_>No copying ... any machine (with suitable hardware) can be a backend and/or frontend, and (properly configured) you can easily see all content at any frontend
20:06<WAAB>Thor_: Excellent, also... Lets say I have all my input feeds (digitial cable boxes) attached to my backends, can the front ends view "live tv" through the network?
20:09<Chutt>of course.
20:09<Chutt>that's the entire point of splitting things up
20:09<thor_>bbl, dinner ... Chutt you get new code real soon
20:09<Chutt>great
20:09-!-PeteCool [~PeteCool@modemcable110.15-201-24.timi.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #mythtv
20:10<PeteCool>nziarek: have you taken a look at oxine?
20:10<PeteCool>nziarek: Iulius would look great with that
20:11<nziarek>no, i haven't what is it (got a web address?)
20:11<Chutt>heh
20:11<WAAB>Next, I have digitial cable boxes connected to several backends/frontends - I'm watching live tv, and recording different shows. How does the network of backends and frontends choose which units are performing the recording and live tv? is there a logic?
20:11<Chutt>petecool, looks like they're ripping off freevo
20:12-!-_inman_ [~dert@pcp01402373pcs.radnor01.pa.comcast.net] has joined #mythtv
20:13<PeteCool>ripping what? UI looks, or code?
20:13<PeteCool>nziarek: http://oxine.sourceforge.net/
20:14<Chutt>the ui
20:14<Chutt>not the code, obviously, since it looks to be in c, but...
20:14<_inman_>sorry, ripping the UI from what? oxine?
20:15<PeteCool>nziarek: actually it may not be the best dvd player frontend... the main menu in the screenshots page has too many redundant things
20:15<nziarek>PeteCool: yeah, i was thinking that.
20:15<WAAB>Chutt: Can you answer my previous question, Thor_ has gone away...
20:16<Chutt>it just chooses whatever's free
20:16<PeteCool>anybody seen a microATX board with serial ata yet?
20:17<WAAB>Chutt: Does it prioritize the local cable box for local live viewing?
20:18<Chutt>nope
20:18<Chutt>i haven't bothered making it do that yet.
20:18<nziarek>PeteCool: are you using oxine?
20:19<WAAB>Chutt: Are you the author?
20:20<PeteCool>nziarek: no, just saw it
20:21<Chutt>yup
20:22<nziarek>PeteCool: ah. I thought maybe you were using it in supplement somehow...
20:23<WAAB>Chutt: Very nice peice of code!!! Will love running it on my debian boxes :)
20:23<WAAB>Chutt: I will be moving to a new place in 2 months and want to have a complete MythTV system installed.. beyond the ovious need for a switched network :).. Could I ask you a few quick hardware questions?
20:24<Chutt>i don't really answer hardware questions
20:25<WAAB>Chutt: Fair enough, is the mailing list the best place?
20:27<nziarek>WAAB: I get about 75 messages a day from MythTV-users. The archive is a great way to start: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/archive/MythTV_C2
20:28<Chutt>bah, -users is only 35 messages a day
20:29<WAAB>nziarek: Thank you very much....
20:29<nziarek>well, i haven't been home in three days and my mailbox is at 150 messages, so, you might be right.., :)
20:29<nziarek>WAAB: yup
20:30<Chutt>-dev is at 40 or so
20:30<nziarek>Chutt: do you read them all? if so, doesn't it feel like 75? :)
20:30<Chutt>i skim most stuff
20:30<Chutt>i do ignore large portions of it
20:31<Chutt>like the people telling me how to release software
20:31<Chutt>=)
20:31<nziarek>i love those!
20:32<nziarek>:)
20:32* _inman_snickers.
20:34<_inman_>the backend's reliance on X may not be a result of "broken design", but I don't see why it's a positive feature.
20:34<_inman_>X libs are not exactly small.
20:34<Chutt>to get rid of that dependency, you're going to have to rewrite it without qt
20:34<_inman_>eh?
20:35<Chutt>and how can size matter?
20:35<Chutt>this is recording video
20:35<Chutt>on a server machine :p
20:35<_inman_>i've been recording to NFS...
20:35<Chutt>the backend is written using qt
20:35<Chutt>qt needs x
20:36<_inman_>yeah it does look pretty well entrenched.
20:37<Chutt>very entrenched =)
20:37<_inman_>hmm. so the best we can do is to zotz binaries, eh?
20:37<thor_>Hey, even Cobalt RaQs come with X libraries
20:37<_inman_>ugh. i hated that product.
20:38<thor_>Headless does no mean X-less
20:38<Chutt>i think the whole thing's silly
20:38<_inman_>i agree that it doesn't make much sense if we can't rip the libs.
20:39<_inman_>man i wish i was home.
20:40<_inman_>is skeeterskip here?
20:46<_inman_>Chutt: it looks like the MC/i18n directory may be missing from CVS...?
20:46<_inman_>i can't `make distclean` after updating...
20:47<Chutt>cvs -z3 update -PAd
20:47<_inman_>thanks
20:47<Chutt>well, just need the -d, i believe
20:47<Chutt>to create new directories
20:47<_inman_>yeah, forgot about that.
20:47<Chutt>unless i really did forget about adding that
20:47<Chutt>but i don't think i did =)
20:47<_inman_>no, it's there.
20:49<PeteCool>Chutt: I have "problems" with the cutpoint editor with a 2hour movie
20:49<PeteCool>I have to get in/out of the editor mode or it crashes
20:49<Chutt>have to get in/out?
20:49<PeteCool>press m, then m again
20:50<PeteCool>or over time it moves only a few frames back/forth insted of the defined time
20:50<thor_>Chutt, on its way
20:50<Chutt>sweet
20:50<PeteCool>ends up getting "out" of that recording (back to watch recorings), or it hangs mythtv
20:50<PeteCool>like it just did
20:50<Chutt>petecool, can you describe it more?
20:51<PeteCool>I try to edit out the ads, so I move back/forth LOTS, and change move length lots too
20:52<PeteCool>but after about 100 moves, it doesn't work as it should
20:52<PeteCool>I say to move 1 minute, but it moves frame-by-frame
20:52<PeteCool>looks a little like the "moving-backwards-wall" problem
20:52<Chutt>could be the same thing, yeah
20:53<PeteCool>actually this might be exactly it, because I had to "get in and out" of the editor to back up a few times
20:54<PeteCool>but it's an old recording, maybe it's missing something?
20:54<Chutt>how old?
20:55<Chutt>really old recordings shouldn't be editable in the first place
20:55<PeteCool>march 1st, so it was recorded with feb 25 CVS at worst
20:55<Chutt>naw, that's not old =)
20:55<PeteCool>now I can't even enter the cutpoint editor
20:55<Chutt>thor, need a 'using namespace std;' in playlist.cpp
20:56<thor_>ok
20:56<Chutt>and an include for iostream and that same line in treecheckitem.cpp
20:56<thor_>ok
20:57<Chutt>heh
20:57<Chutt>need to update mythtv for the widget changes
20:58<thor_>bleeding edge
20:58<Chutt>i need to spend time with my wife, so, i'll be back in an hour or two
21:10<_inman_>poptix: who are you "paying beer" to add PVR support to Myth?
21:16<nziarek>moegreen: a while back you mentioned a page that you refer to instead of the actual weather page on mSNBC...how did you find that? I am working on MythSports (slowly but surely!) and I was wondering if I could ifnd an easier way to grab info...
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21:58<PeteCool>Chutt: I said I couldn't enter the cutpoint editor...
21:58<_inman_>liar
21:59<PeteCool>but, as ads are about to arrive, I press pause once (to pause the video), fast forward about two minutes, unpause, and it starts playing back to where I set the playback to resume!
21:59<PeteCool>very weird stuff
21:59<_inman_>hey, i can never edit. must need to rtfm.
21:59<RagnaRoC>Hello! I am running MythTV 0.8 on Gentoo and am having sound problems...before anyone gives me the stock answers I did go over the docs(Unless I did not udnerstand something) Alsamixer is set up with "captur" set to Aux and muted (my TV tuner source) and the second captur set to Capure with level at 100 %...I can get analog sound from actual broadcast but not the encoded sound from mythtv :(
22:00<RagnaRoC>Video is smooth and working and rewinds ect
22:00<RagnaRoC>I know it is not a cpu time issue ect
22:00<_inman_>are you sure myth is pointing at the right device?
22:00<PeteCool>RagnaRoC: if you're using alsa you should tell mythtv to use /dev/sound/dsp
22:00<RagnaRoC>yes pretty much. Is pointed to /dev/dsp but this is what I get from mythbackend:
22:01<RagnaRoC>Changing from None to WatchingLiveTV
22:01<RagnaRoC>Cannot open DSP '', dying.
22:01<RagnaRoC>Could not detect audio blocksize
22:01<RagnaRoC>Cannot open DSP '', exitingaudio volume set to '32768'
22:01<RagnaRoC>I have allready killall artsd as well
22:01<RagnaRoC>everythign else that needs /dev/dsp works
22:02<RagnaRoC>... /dev/dsp/ is a link on my system to /dev/sound/dsp I believe
22:03<Chutt>thor, still around?
22:03<thor_>yes
22:03<Chutt>i think this works really well
22:03<Chutt>except for it doubling the entries in the current queue when you select 'save to new playlist'
22:04<thor_>few bugs, lots to clean up, but the interface is right?
22:04<Chutt>yeah
22:04<thor_>Yeah!
22:04<thor_>Will clean, improve, debug tomorrow and put another patch on the list
22:05<RagnaRoC>just to be sure I just changed it to /dev/sound/dsp in setup>playback inside mythtv just now and still only orignal sound no sound from myth TV
22:05<RagnaRoC>and when I mute the orignal TV input (Aux) and set second captur (In alsamixer) to Caputure I still onyl get orignal sound :(
22:06<RagnaRoC>I don't know what else could be done as I have read isntructions pretty carefully
22:06<Chutt>the error messages indicate that the sound device is not in the database.
22:06<RagnaRoC>chutt: So what did I do wrong OR what would soloution be?
22:07<RagnaRoC>this is driving me nuts
22:07<RagnaRoC>video is so smooth even on my slow box but without the audio it is not good for much
22:07<Chutt>i dunno, figure out why it's not in the database
22:07<thor_>Setup?
22:08<RagnaRoC>rerun?
22:08<thor_>can't make things worse
22:08-!-bigguy [bigman@h33.44.102.166.ip.alltel.net] has joined #mythtv
22:08<RagnaRoC>thor: ok Will give it a try
22:08<Chutt>make sure your db is setup properly, etc.
22:08<thor_>and make sure you all the way through the setup
22:08<Chutt>thor, i think this will work very nicely once the minor little bugs are ironed out =)
22:08<RagnaRoC>chutt: My database works fine
22:09<RagnaRoC>I can list all program listing ect
22:09<RagnaRoC>if that is what ya mean
22:09<RagnaRoC>can you change channels with out going to program guide from within mythtv?
22:09<RagnaRoC>is there a command key for that?
22:09<Chutt>the arrow keys?
22:09<Chutt>the number keys?
22:10<thor_>Is there a jump key?
22:10<Chutt>jump key?
22:10<RagnaRoC>When I use the key pad I get the OSD for channel and then video freezes
22:10<thor_>kidding
22:10<Chutt>because your sound isn't working.
22:10<thor_>sound problems
22:11* RagnaRoCbangs head and goes to try ./setup again
22:11<RagnaRoC>:(
22:11<_inman_>audio is overrated.
22:11<RagnaRoC>bah
22:11<RagnaRoC>Can't watch tv with no sound
22:11<RagnaRoC>:P
22:11<thor_>So is video .... hmmmmm ..... MythBook
22:11<_inman_>put on some Ralph Towner or Richard Thompson -- much better.
22:12<Chutt>thor, i was seriously considering doing a frontend for books
22:13<Chutt>since, for example, all of baen's books are available cheaply in nice formats
22:14-!-WAAB [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:15<RagnaRoC>It's working!
22:15<RagnaRoC>Weeeeeeeeeee
22:15* RagnaRoCjumps for joy
22:16<RagnaRoC>Thanks folks for help
22:16<RagnaRoC>:))))
22:17<_inman_>i'm thinking of breaking the imdb hack out into its own module
22:18<thor_>Chutt, problem is the interface
22:20<Chutt>i dunno, it could probably be done nicely
22:20<Chutt>sitting back in a comfy chair, remote in hand
22:20<Chutt>reading off the screen
22:20<Chutt>some music playing in the background
22:20<thor_>Did you have wine with dinner?
22:20<Chutt>heh
22:21<_inman_>do you really think e-books are viable?
22:21<thor_>Yes, but only in paper format
22:21<Chutt>heh
22:21* _inman_smirks.
22:21<thor_>I'm not kidding, see http://www.3billionbooks.com
22:21<_inman_>i think they'd work if i could put an entire reference shelf in an e-book.
22:22<_inman_>have you seen the O'Reilly deal where they give you online access to any books you want?
22:22<Chutt>i prefer the dead tree format
22:22<Chutt>but, free ebooks are nice, too
22:22<thor_>Even better, free e-books in dead tree format
22:22<Chutt>heh
22:22<thor_>Really, I'm not kidding
22:22<_inman_>mmmm, dead trees... ;-P~
22:22<thor_>paper
22:23<Chutt>i'd really just like anything that gave me access to out of print stuff
22:24<thor_>There's lots of digital formats out there (and all the Gutenberg stuff, etc.), just be nice that when you decide which one you want to read and out rolls a library quality paperback
22:24<_inman_>that would be sweet
22:24<_inman_>sometimes, though, digital is better. eg. for a dictionary.
22:25<thor_>Lots of startups trying to make it happen .... anyway, this is getting way off topic ...
22:25<_inman_>what, are you paying by the character?
22:25<Chutt>bah, it's my channel
22:25<Chutt>i can be as off topic as i want
22:26<thor_>Might makes right
22:26<Chutt>i need more books
22:27-!-Captain_Murdoch [~buy_more_@ip68-107-147-80.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #mythtv
22:27<_inman_>sup Chris
22:27<Captain_Murdoch>hey.
22:28<Captain_Murdoch>just reading all the messages from people coming into the list and saying "You know, MythTV would be better if you did X, and Y, and Z..."
22:28<_inman_>you gotta admin, Y is pretty compelling...
22:28<Chutt>it'd certainly would be better
22:28<_inman_>s/admin/admit/
22:29<thor_>Also better if someone invented a 72 hour workday
22:30<Captain_Murdoch>I just wonder why we have to stick to alphabetical order. I can say the alphabet backwards faster than forwards, I could be on Dave Letterman's Stupid Human Tricks, so I'd prefer to start with Z
22:31<_inman_>you had your chance to sort -r, what happened?
22:33<Captain_Murdoch>that's how I encrypt my emails.
22:34<Captain_Murdoch>still working on a good decryption routine though, takes too long to do it in my head.
22:35<_inman_>mythtv is in sourceforge, right?
22:36* _inman_doesn't have access to a browser ATM.
22:36<thor_>nopy
22:36<thor_>nope
22:36<Chutt>i have a sf project setup for it to host my screenshots at
22:36<Chutt>but that's all
22:36* _inman_nods.
22:37<_inman_>do you have any interest in the bug-tracker or future-feature lists?
22:37<Chutt>not the bug tracker
22:37<Chutt>bug trackers where people can post anonymously are pretty worthless
22:38<Chutt>can never get enough information on things
22:38<_inman_>i know the one on SF sucks, but i mean "a" bug tracker or "a" feature list.
22:38<Chutt>i know
22:38* _inman_nods.
22:38<Chutt>as for features, i pretty much just work on what i think would be fun =)
22:39<thor_>Chutt, you know, I think infinite recursion has gone away
22:39<Chutt>yeah
22:40<Chutt>well, hmm
22:40<thor_>Always unique root, and no way to transform a leaf into a reference to that root
22:40<Chutt>so you can't re-reference something
22:40<Chutt>and it always should be possible to completely resolve a list
22:41<thor_>You can never reference Active
22:41<thor_>Snake can never get its tail into its mouth
22:42<thor_>Damn, and all that containsReference() code was starting to work well ...
22:42<Chutt>heh
22:42<thor_>Plus I wrote a setCheckable() routine
22:42<thor_>Ah, now I'm annoyed
22:43<thor_>wait a sec ...
22:43-!-RagnaRoC [] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
22:45<Chutt>well
22:45<Chutt>maybe if you save a playlist back onto itself
22:45<thor_>Yeah, exactly
22:47<thor_>As soon as there's an overwrite, I'll be in trouble
22:47<Chutt>right
22:48<thor_>so do I prevent the overwrite, or do I prevent the ability to include stuff that would be a problem iff it was written back?
22:49<Chutt>hrm
22:49<Chutt>might be best to just grey out playlists that are parents of the list in that case
22:50<thor_>so, the latter
22:50<Chutt>yeah
22:50<Chutt>if it's not too much trouble
22:51<thor_>No, no, although if I had known playlists would be so damn complicated at the outset, I probably would have just kept working on MythWeb
22:51<thor_>:-)
22:51<Chutt>heh
22:52<Chutt>they wouldn't be if playlists couldn't hold playlists
22:52<Chutt>but, what's the fun in that?
22:53<thor_>So ... to make it sensible to the user WHY things are greyed out, should I put the old/probable write-back name of the playlist in parenthesis after "Active Play Queue"?
22:53<Chutt>sure
22:54<thor_>and grey-out/freeze the "old" one above
22:55<Chutt>right
22:55<thor_>Alright, will do (and debug, and clean) ... now ... sleep
22:55<Chutt>heh
22:55<Chutt>have fun
22:56<thor_>At least I get to use that setCheckable() code ...
22:56<PeteCool>why not just hide the playlists that can't be included?
22:57<thor_>2 reasons, the display bounces around a lot
22:57<thor_>(trees opening and closing)
22:57<thor_>and it would be hard to keep track of what can't currently be included versus things that have been deleted
23:29<poptix>wah wah wah
23:30<poptix>i'm too fucking lazy to ssh -X <backend> and run setup
23:30* poptixuses mutt's delete thread feature
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23:57* bigguyis [away -={ S.L.E.E.P }=- ]