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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-06-27

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00:41<FreddieD>neat.. 640x480 decodes with about 15-20% CPU idle time with my Athlon 750
00:43<fulbert>what format?
00:43<FreddieD>pvr-250's hardware encoding
00:43<FreddieD>i forget the exact term
00:43<fulbert>mpeg2
00:44<FreddieD>it's considered normal to get a "Not enough free buffers" message at the beginning, right?
00:44<fulbert>I sometimes see that, but I have two cards, not sure.
00:44<FreddieD>ah crap, nevermind.. "message repeated 49 times" :P
00:44<FreddieD>it seems to get bitchy when i drop to swap space :)
00:45<fulbert>I get ~35% on my P3 1GHz, and ~15% on my P4 1.8 with 720x480 mpeg2 from my 250 cards.
00:45<fulbert>yeah, it will be unhappy when it swaps I note. I had 256MB when I first built, but moving to 512 helped a lot.
00:46<FreddieD>i popped in 512 earlier that definitely helped
00:46<FreddieD>i think every so often tho it dips still
00:46<FreddieD>perhaps i should just run the database on a different box
00:47-!-Captain_Extremis [extremis@121-17.waldenweb.com] has joined #mythtv
00:47<fulbert>I have 512MB in a 1GHz P3 with dual cards now, and I don't seem to have any problems. I am using another machine as the backend though.
00:48<Scrye>i use a thunderbird 1200 w/ 512mb sdram and a quantum 20 gig drive.
00:48<Scrye>the quantum is sooooooooooo loud
00:48<Scrye>mythtv works so much better with seagate drives
00:48<fulbert>the load is driven high on the machine when both cards are recording, but it's all IO based, the CPU is near idle.
00:49<FreddieD>yeah it's awesome to see your CPU yawn during encoding
00:49<fulbert>I tend to find that seagate is louder that most other drives I have, but then again, I only have a handfull of IDE drives. I've been a scsi snob for too long I guess ;)
00:49<FreddieD>i think i'll move the DB to the back end
00:49<Scrye>what size seagate
00:49<fulbert>yeah, it's cool also to see 2MB/s being dumped to disc.
00:49<Scrye>since the 60 gig seagates with liquid bearings, they are by far the quietest
00:50<Scrye>i got a couple 80's in another box and even with long seeks they arn't that loud
00:50<fulbert>I have 2 maxtor 200GB ata drives, that are rather quiet, and I have a 20GB WD drive which is very loud, all are 7200 rpm.
00:50<fulbert>I have a 15K rpm scsi seagate in my workstation and it's very loud.
00:50<Scrye>must be nice to have money
00:51<FreddieD>wow.. the audio was playing at 48kHz even though I had it set to 32... you ever get that before?
00:51<fulbert>I yeah
00:51<fulbert>yeah, the audio is always listed at 48 from the 250
00:51<fulbert>you are seeing the output from mplayer on the frontend?
00:51<FreddieD>yep
00:52<FreddieD>after i CTRL-C'ed it i was perusing
00:52<fulbert>I have my settings listing 48000 now, but when it was 32000 I was still getting 48000 printed from mplayer.
00:52<fulbert>I don't think it matters, I think the ivtv driver only does one rate.
00:52<fulbert>I could be wrong, but that's how it seems to me.
00:52<FreddieD>ah ok, no biggie then... i was just trying to see where i could shave unnecessary CPU decoding cycles
00:53<mechou>extremis, you there?
00:56<fulbert>anyone tweaked the 250's bitrate? I changed it with test_ioct but it does not seem to change what rate is used to record with.
01:03<FreddieD>Not I
01:03<FreddieD>so a 100mB lan connection should be plenty fast enough to allow a separate server for a backend?
01:04<fulbert>oh yeah.
01:04<FreddieD>my wheels are turning right now as to how i can put my back end on a piece of crap box since the encoder is hardware-based
01:04<FreddieD>this app is so freakin flexible, i love it
01:04<fulbert>right. I just used my existing nfs server for the backend.
01:05<FreddieD>NFS instead of SMB?
01:05<Scrye>why not just use a single box
01:05<Scrye>my 1200 with a normal tv card works fine
01:05<FreddieD>Scrye: im on an athlon t-bird 750
01:05<fulbert>well, near my tv, I don't have to keep all the noise from the discs.
01:05<Scrye>then you should be fine
01:06<Scrye>I was running it fine on a dual-450
01:06<fulbert>for one, and second I don't need a big honking pc case to hold/cool it all.
01:06<FreddieD>640x480 runs at about 10-20% CPU idle time, and 720x480 goes from 0-10.. i was trying to see if i could dump the backend elsewhere and be able to run 720x480 with no probs
01:07<fulbert>yeah, that's more or less what I am going to do in my final system setup.
01:07<FreddieD>right now on 720x480 i hemmorage frames faster than a hemopheliac at a boxing match
01:07-!-tmk [~no@ip-64-139-6-119.dsl.sca.megapath.net] has joined #mythtv
01:08<fulbert>I have tested with 720x480 dual stream, over a 100Mb/s link to a nfs server which is also doing the database/mythbackend.
01:08<fulbert>really? I have a P3 1GHz and don't seem to have any problems with 720x480.
01:08<FreddieD>out of curiousity, why do you use NFS instead of SMB?
01:09<FreddieD>yeah i dunno... i dropped 50 frames in about 3 minutes at 720x480
01:09<tmk>it's all about i/o
01:09<Scrye>nfs can be tuned well to large files
01:09<fulbert>well, I only have one windows PC to game on, so I don't really use any SMB.
01:09<Scrye>nfs is inherent to unix.. nfsv3 is quite fast
01:09<fulbert>nfs3 with a large window size I find to be faster too.
01:09<Chutt>smb has a 2GB limit to files.
01:10<fulbert>8k blocks over GigE hauls ass ;-)
01:10<FreddieD>great reasons :)
01:10<tmk>we'll never need more than 640k
01:10<tmk>err
01:10<fulbert>heh
01:10<tmk>fulbert: with jumbo frames too
01:10<tmk>mmm
01:10<fulbert>mmm
01:11<fulbert>one day nfs4 will be ready. I remember being at a demo in 98...
01:12<fulbert>then again I had a training class on IPv6 in 97...
01:12-!-bbeattie [] has quit ["Client Exiting"]
01:12<Chutt>www.donotcall.gov is online and active if y'all are interested in that
01:12<bline>what is that
01:12<Scrye>www.reportyourselfforstealingtv.com is up if anyone cares
01:12<Scrye>heh
01:13-!-Ripp [] has quit [einstein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
01:13<FreddieD>haha
01:13<Scrye>bline : the national do not call list..
01:13<Chutt>the national do not call list for telemarketers
01:13<Chutt>went online like an hour ago
01:13<Chutt>:p
01:13<Scrye>they call you and you can sue them
01:13<bline>they never call me
01:13-!-Ripp [~ripp@209.194.224.236] has joined #mythtv
01:13<Scrye>You are also a canuck
01:13<Chutt>i get about a dozen calls a day
01:13<Chutt>on average
01:13<bline>yoy!
01:13<Chutt>yeah, no shit
01:13<fulbert>I log as many as 35 a day.
01:14<bline>I'd spend 10 minutes on each call
01:14<bline>just cussing them out
01:14<Scrye>oh i see
01:14<fulbert>my pbx (www.asterisk.org) at the house stops them from getting my phone to actually ring, but they still call.
01:14<Scrye>they make you give you your phone number and email address..
01:14<Scrye>so they can email spam you for much cheaper!!!
01:15<tmk>i've gotten email-spam to my cell phone
01:15<tmk>in spanish
01:16<bline>hey tmk
01:16<tmk>anyone here using a pvr card with myth?
01:16<tmk>sup
01:16<bline>yeah, me :)
01:16<fulbert>two of them here.
01:16<Chutt>tmk, i'm not
01:16<tmk>fulbur: do you notice a high-pitched whine?
01:16<Scrye>I use a cheapo avermedia
01:17<fulbert>there is a slight whine in the audio as of a few days ago cvs. yes.
01:17<tmk>damn
01:17<tmk>guess i better fix thata
01:17<tmk>i thought it was just chutt with the dog-like hearing
01:17<tmk>;)
01:17<bline>do the decoder framebuffer first :)
01:17<fulbert>I have cvs from last night on another machine, and it's also there I just noted.
01:17<tmk>nah chutt asked first
01:17<tmk>cvs from cvs
01:18<tmk>or cvs from tarball
01:18<Chutt>i asked several months ago
01:18<fulbert>cvs... I actaully got in.
01:18<tmk>indeed
01:18<tmk>that qualifies as 'first'
01:18<tmk>does it not?
01:18<fulbert>looking at history, I only had to login 27 times.
01:18<tmk>hehe
01:18<tmk>it's always up for me (developer access ;)
01:18<Chutt>fulbert, you at least sleep for few seconds between, yes?
01:19<Chutt>and, you do know there's a tarball on the webpage?
01:19<fulbert>*nod*
01:19<tmk>ok i'll go fix the whine now
01:19<bline>luck be with you
01:19<Chutt>thank you
01:19-!-tmk is now known as nowhinehere
01:20<bline>heh
01:23<mechou>fulbert, your pbx, you using hw line card?
01:24<fulbert>yeah, I actaully am a reseller for digium, the ones making the Wildcard units. I have a T1 linecard in use right now.
01:24<fulbert>I was using a single port card for a long time though. the x100p model.
01:25<mechou>x100p, what's the going $?
01:25<fulbert>very low hardware requirements, my first test system was a celeron 300/128MB.
01:25<fulbert>x100p is $99.
01:27<fulbert>it's the lowest cost reliable way to get hang-up detection. some people have had luck with ISDN TA's that are supported in linux, or voice modems, but they lack disconnect supervision.
01:27<mechou>so how does a pbx actually recognize a telemarketer call? (besides caller id?)
01:28<fulbert>well it's not so much that it recognizes them, as much as I have an IVR (auto-attendand) which automaticaly answers and makes you enter an extension. (0 for the operator rings all the house lines).
01:28<fulbert>I have never had a telemarketer bother to dial an extension, that filters them right out.
01:29<mechou>ok, gotcha.
01:29<fulbert>there is also a software module called the somethingzapper which will do like the telezapper unti you can purchase does, it looks for deadspace and autodialer type traits and it will play the tones to make it look like a dead line.
01:30<fulbert>I never use it, the IVR answering has fixed all my problems, and it's fun (press 7 to hear a goat...)
01:30* FryGuypresses 7
01:30<FreddieD>fulbert: you said that the ivtv forces encoding to 44.1kHz regardless of what myth states, right?
01:30* fulbertbaaaa
01:30<mechou>do you think the sit tones actually work against telemarketer types? I mean they upgrade their autodialers too, eight?
01:31<mechou>s/eight/right
01:31<fulbert>freddied: yeah, seems to.
01:31<fulbert>mechou: I think it will for sometime.
01:31<FryGuy>you shouldn't have to buy something to stop telemarketers from calling
01:32<fulbert>they want to weed out numbers that are fax machines and the like. the zapper module can play the fastbusy/fax/disconnect message, or the "tri-tone", so it's pretty configurable.
01:32<fulbert>I agree.
01:32<mechou>I just record the sit tones on my answering machine, but I still get telemarketer calls...
01:33<FryGuy>well i don't really get many telemarkers at home
01:33<FryGuy>my dad's appartment gets a whole bunch, but he lives in utah
01:34<fulbert>yeah, I would not trust that device solution 100% to work, that's why I went to the ivr. my state has a lot of CLECs compeating for local phone service, I was getting upto 10 calls a day just being asked to switch phone cos.. it was unreal.
01:34<FryGuy>we get like 2 a day asking us to change to some kind of satellite
01:34<FryGuy>always leave messages on the answering machine
01:36<fulbert>I look at the mysql dump from my pbx to see who called and didn't hit a extension, it's fun to see the caller-id info for them all.
01:37<FryGuy>i don't have caller id :/
01:37<FryGuy>are some of them real?
01:37<fulbert>yeah, but you get a lot of them that are "info, marketing", "save, youmoney" and stuff like that.
01:38<mechou>caller id rarely work for screening telemarketers.
01:38<fulbert>since so many of them are using large banks of lines on PRI, they can set their own caller-id info, most leave it blank, but it's funny to see their caller-id spam sometimes
01:38<mechou>telemareters use "out of area" or some such non-sense...
01:38<fulbert>"we, saveyoumore"
01:39<fulbert>well that's a limit of your local phone switch not getting the info from the remote switch.
01:40<mechou>hmm, learn something new every day....
01:40<fulbert>many rural areas have switches that don't fully pass all the caller-id stuff down the raod, depending on where you are you may get a lot of out-of-area calls.
01:40<mechou>you're saying my local phone switch is probably "old"
01:40<fulbert>likely, yes.
01:41<FryGuy>it's funny to see the telco play both sides though
01:41<FryGuy>"get caller id to know who's calling to avoid telemarketers"
01:41<fulbert>it's even worse with things like the "privacy" manager the telcos sell.
01:41<mechou>yeah, what a scam...
01:41<FryGuy>"heretelemarketers, have your number blanked for a fee"
01:42<FryGuy>"customers, show even blank numbers for a bigger fee"
01:42<mechou>they're playing both sides of the street.
01:42<fulbert>SBC (ameritech) sells PRI access lines to telemarketers that can avoid the caller-id blocked privacy manager /they/ sell.
01:43<FryGuy>it's ridiculous
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01:44<Scrye>that should be illegal
01:44<fulbert>you would think...
01:44<fulbert>I work with several CLECs in the area, and half the stuff SBC does should be illegal.
01:45<Scrye>the ILEC here killed off all the CLECS
01:45<FryGuy>stupid monopolies
01:45<Scrye>by only hiring incompetent workers heh
01:46<Scrye>the switchovers would go so bad and line quality / etc theyd go back to 'ole reliable'
01:46<fulbert>that's the new SBC policy here, they are telling the union installers that all the CLECs are the reason they are getting pink slipped, and that if they don't "slow it down" they won't have any jobs in 6 months.
01:46<Scrye>heh
01:47<Scrye>same thing here
01:47<fulbert>lost ordered, bad installs, workers that don't show up, working cutting lines on the NID... all a mess.
01:47<Scrye>most of the CLECs here are dead
01:47<FryGuy>what are CLEC's?
01:47<Scrye>hell AT&T canada is about to be bought by the local ILEC
01:47<FryGuy>and ILEC
01:48<fulbert>the state here is keeping them alive. SBC was so bad in the state, at one point about two years ago, a residential repair was running 6 weeks average...
01:48<Scrye>well albertas ILEC bought BC's ILEC and now they are western canadas ILEC
01:48<Scrye>which is buying AT&T which is just gonna be another monopoly
01:48<fulbert>it was insane, I had a line out at my moms house then, it was april and they gave me a june repair date.
01:48<Scrye>ILEC = incumbant local exchange carrier
01:48<Scrye>i dont know what the C in CLEC stands for
01:48<fulbert>competitave
01:49<Scrye>ILEC means they own the lines and stuff and have to give them at a good rate to the CLECS
01:49<fulbert>if I could only spell ;-)
01:49<Scrye>its the same with dsl here :/
01:49<Scrye>the ILEC (telus) sells the actual line then another 'dsl provider' plugs into that line
01:49<fulbert>dsl is like that everywhere. the ilec's bought a law a few years ago.
01:49<Scrye>which all plugs into telus' 'CLEC DSLAM' (which is a piece of poo)
01:50<FryGuy>bleh
01:50<Scrye>then if they want to switch to telus DSL its literally a plug in the CO or wherever
01:50<mechou>fulbert, who makes the dslam in telus' case?
01:50<fulbert>SBC sells the CLES dsl at a rate 2$/mo lower than SBC sells it to customers here.
01:50<fulbert>no clue.
01:50<FryGuy>it shouldn't be allowed to use a monopoly to have bad service on purpose for the customers to save the bottom line from competetors
01:51<Scrye>i dont know who telus uses for thier DSLAM
01:51<FryGuy>that's what the ISP I work for has to deal with
01:51<fulbert>SBC is using all kinds of dslam gear, I've seen at least 6 vendors.
01:51<Scrye>they use 3com CPE's
01:51<FryGuy>they make almost $7/mo from SBC's DSL line
01:51<Scrye>when i was working a telco in Maine, we used the only bay networks DSLAM to ever make it out of thier office
01:52<FryGuy>with that they have to pay employees and all the other overhead
01:52<Scrye>no not bay networks
01:52<FryGuy>it's ridiculous
01:52<Scrye>some other stupid company
01:52<mechou>redback?
01:52<Scrye>cabletron
01:52<Scrye>thats it
01:53<Scrye>they went tits up shortly after delivering us thier DSLAM
01:53<fulbert>dsl is crappy. distance limits, gear density, speeds, it's all a mess. cable is better, but it's another monopoly system.
01:53<Scrye>shortly after i left that telco, the ISP part went tits up
01:53<Scrye>cable is a hell of a lot better here
01:53<Scrye>ask bline
01:53<Scrye>he was on telus' dsl for all of a month
01:53<FryGuy>well cable has its problems too
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01:54<fulbert>from a SBC report n 99, they estimated that 30% of their serviced lines could get DSL, and 20% of those only IDSL (144Kb/s)
01:54<Scrye>god telus has that 'its not shared internet' bull crap in its adverts here
01:54-!-nowhinehere is now known as tmk
01:54<mechou>it's a wonder dsl works at all, given how touchy it is...
01:54<fulbert>mostly because of distance, it's a joke.
01:54<FryGuy>when they don't divide the nodes up when they should
01:54<Scrye>tcpdump on cable here == nothing but your packets
01:54<Scrye>tcpdump on dsl here == everyone elses mac traffic
01:55<fulbert>yeah, cable is nicer, but the closed system makes it a mess.
01:55<FryGuy>really scrye?
01:55<FryGuy>i thought it was the other way
01:55<Scrye>100% honest
01:55<fulbert>my local provider, time warner, just added a selection of 5 ISPs to provide data over their cable at least.
01:55<bigguy>FryGuy: depends on the cable isp
01:55<Scrye>with the DSL you can steal other peoples ip's
01:55<Scrye>with cable you get a dhcp lease once and they lock on to your mac address
01:55<FryGuy>that's not good
01:55<Scrye>then it wont bridge anything but your mac
01:56<FryGuy>i've had my ip from cable modem for a year
01:56<fulbert>I'm lucky, with my contacts at the CLECs I was able to avoid all that and I have a T1 run to the house, and I'm thankfull everyday ;-).
01:56<Scrye>ive had 3 ip's in 4 years
01:56<Scrye>T1's are horribly overpriced still
01:56<bigguy>how much that t1 cost you, fulbert ?
01:56<mechou>fulbert envy....
01:56<Scrye>even just local loop
01:57<Scrye>T1 is just 192kb full duplex
01:57<Scrye>my cable modem is 8mb down 1mb up
01:57<fulbert>I only pay the loop, I own the cisco gear at both ends, that was part of my deal with the CLEC who let me get the loop at cost, $160/mo.
01:57<fulbert>it's a 14mile loop.
01:57<bigguy>Scrye: no cable or dsl in my area
01:57<FryGuy>well, T1's are gauranteed.. you're paying for someone to blame if something goes wrong
01:57<fulbert>my cable was faster, 3mb/512k, but I'll take a /24 of my own IP space and reliable service over the speed anyday.
01:58<fulbert>well, and 1.5async is nice too ;-)
01:58<FryGuy>of course one of my friends still says the telcos are over allocating if they are charging less than $100 for megabit+ access
01:58<mechou>fulbert, which state do you live in?
01:58<Scrye>all telcos oversell
01:58<fulbert>michigan.
01:58<Scrye>its a part of business
01:58<Scrye>we used to oversell 8-1
01:58<Scrye>which is fairly good
01:59<FryGuy>well to some extent
01:59<FryGuy>i think my isp was going at like 15:1 for dialup
01:59<Scrye>modem oversell?
01:59<FryGuy>yes
01:59<fulbert>we ran 20:1 dialup with business, that's tight on residential.
02:00<Scrye>we guarunteed no-busys so we were always overprovisioned
02:00<Scrye>8:!
02:00<Scrye>but we owned the local loop as a telco
02:00<Scrye>8-1
02:00<FryGuy>well, we gaurantee no busy signals too
02:00<FryGuy>whenever modem usage ever got above 90% they would go put more modems in the racks
02:00<fulbert>we were that way with data, but that's just because we were scamming off the university of michigan bandwidth on a 100Mb connection.
02:00<Scrye>1 t1 usually could serve a full as5300 with 192 modems
02:00<FryGuy>i would watch the usage data. it was pretty cool
02:01<FryGuy>customers per modem i mean, not bandwidth
02:01<Scrye>FryGuy rs232 modems?
02:01<fulbert>we had old skool, couriers and portmasters ;-)
02:01<Scrye>or modem bank cards?
02:01<Scrye>i couldn't imagine having to do PSTN modems + pm2e's
02:02<Scrye>that would be INSANE cabling
02:02<fulbert>we converted to 5200/5300's later, but then the ISP market tanked and we stopped doing dialup ;-) and the phone calls ended.
02:02<FryGuy>i'm not technical. they were like 8 modems per card and you could put 10 or so cards in a 3u rackmount box
02:02<Scrye>FryGuy sounds like an AS5200 cisco
02:02<FryGuy>i think it was one "wire" for the whole box
02:02<FryGuy>i think it was cisco
02:02<Scrye>or even a USR total control
02:03<FryGuy>wait
02:03<Scrye>as5200 sucked when 96 modems were in them
02:03<FryGuy>that might be it
02:03<Scrye>they couldn't handle the pps
02:03<FryGuy>does hiper sound right?
02:03<Scrye>hyper?
02:03<fulbert>yeah, the 5200 had to slow of a cpu.
02:03<FryGuy>i think it was hiper
02:03<Scrye>no idea
02:04<FryGuy>i don't know where the modem reports are anymore
02:04<Scrye>try /mrtg
02:04<Scrye>heh
02:04<FryGuy>well we've moved from linux and gone windows based on almost everything
02:04<FryGuy>much to my dismay
02:04<FryGuy>went to a windows radius server recently
02:04<fulbert>we went from sun, to linux, to out of business ;-)
02:05<FryGuy>hehe
02:05<Scrye>fulbert heh for that isp i worked for -ditto
02:05<FryGuy>well we're still bringing in the dough
02:05<Scrye>god i pity anyone that ever had to use TACAS+
02:05<FryGuy>but my boss doesn't undertand anything about the way things work :/
02:06<Scrye>first thing i did when i got at that ISP was move from TACAS -> radius
02:06<Scrye>TACACS
02:06<FryGuy>i helped write the sql queries for our radius server
02:06<FryGuy>it's really cool the way the software works
02:06<FryGuy>except the windows box sucks ass
02:07<fulbert>we were mostly a hosting setup, dialup and access was a side product.
02:07<Scrye>the isp i run now is all commercial broadband
02:07<FryGuy>the ODBC connection randly borks
02:07<Scrye>odbc is junk
02:07<FryGuy>i agree
02:07<Scrye>has its use but its junk
02:07<FryGuy>i like php's method of directly connecting
02:07<Scrye>pear has a odbc like interface
02:07<FryGuy>well I wrote my own sql wrapper
02:08<FryGuy>a bit of overhead, but i like how it returns a 2d array
02:08<fulbert>someone talked our developers into using cold fusion. that was nightmare.
02:08<FryGuy>instead of having to call mssql_fetch_array
02:08<Scrye>you mean like *sql_fetch_array_ref?
02:08<FryGuy>i started out on cf actually
02:08<fulbert>I moved them all to php or java as soon as I could.
02:08<fulbert>we ran cold fusion on unix. their product was a mess.
02:08<FryGuy>i moved over to php 2 years ago
02:08<FryGuy>ya on unix it was terrible
02:08<FryGuy>which version?
02:08<FryGuy>4.5 or 5
02:09<fulbert>it would run 800MB in memory, and that was in 96 or so, when 1GB was a leg or more in cost.
02:09<fulbert>2.1
02:09<FryGuy>on windows boxes it wasn't bad at all
02:09<Scrye>hah
02:09<FryGuy>there was 2.1 on unix?
02:09<FryGuy>i thought 4.5 was the first unix release
02:09<Scrye>we had bad bad problems with cfengine on win32
02:09<fulbert>we were users from 2.1 on windows up to 4.5, was the last we ran.
02:09<fulbert>I think we had 3 on solaris, that was the first unix.
02:09<fulbert>I have the box somewhere ;-)
02:09<FryGuy>it would get random memory leaks sometimes though
02:10<FryGuy>i still use the cold fusion studio text editor at work too
02:10<fulbert>it was a port emulated, there were all kinds of DLL's embeded in the .so's and it was a mess under unix.
02:10<fulbert>the editor was cool, many of the developers loved it.
02:10<FryGuy>at home i use homesite
02:10<FryGuy>too bad it still takes a while to load
02:10<Scrye>php is thankfully killing cf
02:11<FryGuy>and there are resource problems
02:11<FryGuy>well my boss didn't like php because it was free
02:11<Scrye>im the boss.
02:11<fulbert>yeah, cf and java is all we used at the end, we ran cf to support older customers.
02:11<fulbert>php and java that is.
02:12<Scrye>our whole automated ISP runs on 20k lines of java and 100k of php
02:12<FryGuy>well, i'm not that lucky :)
02:12<FryGuy>we use a crappy accounting software called platypus
02:12<Scrye>wrote mine
02:13<FryGuy>and the bosses don't like the way it works, and because they want it their way or it's wrong, we had to rewrite almost everything it does
02:13<FryGuy>so right now, the only thing the software is doing is the charges
02:13<FryGuy>it's ridiculous
02:14<Scrye>ive only still got to write an inventory management system then im done
02:14<fulbert>is there an iostat type app under redhat to show current disk io?
02:14<FryGuy>mainly the stuff I did was the trouble ticket system, and the other coder is more intimite with platypus
02:15<Scrye>we have a trouble ticket system integrated with our monitoring system
02:15<Scrye>so tickets are automatically generated on incoming call, or monitoring system event
02:15<Scrye>or manual entry
02:15<fulbert>we used rt and a customer monitor app.
02:15<Scrye>i looked at rt for all of 2 minutes
02:15<FryGuy>heh i wish it could be used on an incoming call
02:15<fulbert>s/customer/custom/
02:15<Scrye>what a piece of trash taht is
02:16<FryGuy>our phone system is archaic
02:16<FryGuy>it's at least 15 years old
02:16<Scrye>eh
02:16<Scrye>heh
02:16<Scrye>callerid -> database lookup -> ticket
02:16<FryGuy>no caller id
02:16<FryGuy>and it doesn't create any events
02:17<FryGuy>so there's no way to create a ticket for them
02:17<Scrye>one of our radios misses a packet its logged heh
02:18<FryGuy>the way i'd like it to work is when someone calls in it'd create a ticket for them and it'd open it on the screen, and the ability to transfer a call to someone and have the ticket move with the call
02:18<FryGuy>but to transfer a call it has to be paged with the line number
02:18<FryGuy>it's really ghetto
02:19<Scrye>we have an event system that pops up on the extension
02:19<Scrye>you click on transfer to user
02:19<Scrye>user gets a event saying call for you on line x
02:19<Scrye>we need a unix based PBX to beable to automatically transfer calls to ring extensions
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02:20<fulbert>www.asterisk.org
02:20<Scrye>we just have 4 PSTN's hooked up to callerid boxen
02:20<FryGuy>through their computer?
02:20<Scrye>thanks fulbert
02:20<FryGuy>i'm actually researching something better
02:20<Scrye>i never use 3rd party software anymore
02:20<Scrye>too much of a pain in the ass to support
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02:22<FryGuy>oh and the other stupid thing is, the boss doesn't want people to be "on hold", so if the phone rings 5 times it transfers to another company which emails us their information
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02:22<Scrye>hey fulbert how much does a quad channel fxs card cost?
02:22<Scrye>digium
02:23<fulbert>fxs or t1?
02:23<fulbert>the fxs card is ~300, the T1 1499
02:24<fulbert>more cost effective to get a single t1 and a channel bank.
02:24<fulbert>unless you only need 4-8 fxs ports.
02:26<Scrye>i might be getting that backwards
02:26<Scrye>i always mix up FXS and FXO
02:26<Scrye>which one provides dialtone
02:26<fulbert>fsx is to plug in a phone device, dialtone.
02:27<fulbert>fxo is to take a ports line into the system.
02:27<fulbert>pots.
02:27<fulbert>man, I'm getting tired ;)
02:28<Scrye>yeah so fxs then
02:28<Scrye>we got like 10 phones
02:28<Scrye>so what would we use to interface say 12 phones to 4 pots lines
02:28<fulbert>you would want a single t1 card, and a channel bank with 4 fxo and 12 fxs ports.
02:29<fulbert>you dump the extensions to the fxs ports on the channel bank, the pots lines to te fxo and then dump the t1 out of the channel bank into the t1 card in the server.
02:29<Scrye>whats this channel bank you talk of
02:29<fulbert>the t1 channels can be split in software into x and o ports, and you are all set.
02:30<Scrye>an external piece of hardware?
02:30<fulbert>yeah.
02:30<Scrye>ok so how much for all the equip
02:30<Scrye>minus server of course
02:31<fulbert>channel bank is an ebay item for ~300-600, or new for ~1000-1800.
02:31<fulbert>then the single t1 card is 450
02:32<fulbert>that channel bank can be split to whatever config you need, 24 ports total.
02:32<Scrye>USD?
02:32<fulbert>yep.
02:34<Scrye>so how does this channel bank thing work
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02:35<fulbert>? it's a inverse mux
02:35<fulbert>it takes ds0, 64k chans and muxes it to a full t1.
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02:36<fulbert>it will have a amp (centronic like) connector on it, and you wire that to a 66block, punch the extensions and pots lines to it, and your all set.
02:36<Scrye>yeah i know what an amp is
02:36<Scrye>where does the linux box come in for transfering lines
02:37<fulbert>the asterisk software is a soft switch. when you pickup a phone, it generates the dialtone, if you dial a 9 to get an outside line, it bridges you to an outside line
02:37<fulbert>it does all the call routing, voicemail, and has a full scriptable ivr setup.
02:38<fulbert>there is a perl gateway (cgi like interface, called AGI, asterisk gateway interface) and you can script from a database and all.
02:38<Scrye>so you couldn't use a channel bank with asterisk?
02:38<fulbert>no, you do use them together. the channel bank provides the lines for asterisk to use.
02:39<tmk>hey chutt
02:39<Scrye>meh i'll read the asterisk howto
02:39<tmk>do you set NTSC mode when you start a recording
02:39<tmk>or only if it's pal do you change it
02:39<fulbert>#asterisk on on this server also...
02:40<Scrye>i dont like bugging developers heh
02:40<Scrye>I know how annoying it is for a noob to bug a developer
02:41<fulbert>lots of users hang there also.
02:41<Scrye>im a lurker
02:41<FryGuy>i've got my own project that have really annoying people bug me on how to get it working :/
02:42<Scrye>whats your project
02:42<fulbert>they sell a developers kit which will get you a pci fxo card, and a usb fxs port for $150, you can use the fxo again later too.
02:43<FryGuy>it's a script that can complete multiple areas in diablo 2 unassisted
02:43<FryGuy>nothing like mythtv or anything :p
02:43<Scrye>i run dynup.net
02:43<Scrye>i got some real retards
02:44<FryGuy>i would imagine
02:44<fulbert>yeah, windows users and ddns sound fun.
02:45<Scrye>anyway later
02:45<Scrye>bedtime
02:45<bline>later
02:45<fulbert>nite
02:47<FryGuy>night
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08:42<Conaz>Snow-Man: hey, if you see failed email deliveries to cmaahs@eatenbygrue.com I'm afraid I had a disk failure yesterday afternoon, and of course yesterday was the one day in a long time I didn't even go into the dungeon I call my office
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11:30<FreddieD>Is there a vid card that you recommend for this thing?
11:30<fulbert>for tv out?
11:30<FreddieD>yeah
11:31<FreddieD>i've been told the nvidia cards have very poor linux compatability
11:31<fulbert>I'm using a nVidia GF4 4200 with the CX25871 chip, and it looks great.
11:31<fulbert>the nvidia driver really seems to work quite well when compared to other vendors poor linux drivers.
11:32<FreddieD>Is the on-board video card memory pretty important you think?
11:32<fulbert>the nvidia one has full hardware acceleration, and it has overscan control for the tvout, important to get rid of the black space at the edge of the screen.
11:32<fulbert>no, you will not hit a res high enough that over 32MB will matter.
11:32<fulbert>the card I have happens to be a 128MB version, but the 64MB version is just as good.
11:32<FreddieD>I was considering a GeForce MX
11:33<fulbert>I have a 440 MX 64MB card I have not used yet, I undestand that with the latest drivers, as long as the card is supported, the tv out should be.
11:33<fulbert>before the CX25871 was thought to be "the" chip to have.
11:33<FreddieD>hmmm
11:34<fulbert>I guess the CX25871 can drive 1024x768 somehow, I'm using 800x600 for svideo when I was testing.
11:34<vektor>fulbert: Not really very useful if you're going to TV output though.
11:35<fulbert>right.
11:46<poptix>why would you push anything >800x600 via svideo?
11:46<poptix>hell, i don't like above 720x480
11:47<fulbert>? I was screwing around trying to see what the best looking output I could get to my hdtv was.
11:47<fulbert>my tv won't sync anything more than 640x480 on it's dvi in from the pc for some reason.
11:47<poptix>if it's hdtv, then you need something that isn't normal format
11:48<fulbert>I find the svideo from my geforce looks better... which is odd.
11:48<fulbert>well I tried 1280x720 (720p) and others, but it will not sync.
11:48<fulbert>seems that most of the makers are not hip to the idea of a PC driving the display and they all assume we want to connect a laptop to give a powerpoint...
11:50<fulbert>I hope one day to have a tv I can drive at native 720p, that would be great. I might play with a VGA/DVI to component video converter see if I can get it to sync at 480p that way, but I'm not sure I care enough to spend more money on it.
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12:03<poptix>friend finally got married
12:03<poptix>er
12:03<poptix>w/w
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15:31<extremis>so, the mythtv-users modirator still hasn't approved my message
15:31<extremis>moderator even
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15:33<extremis>who should I bribe?
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15:47<Chutt>subscribe and resend it.
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16:45<extremis>heh, I did, nothing yet
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16:59<extremis>ahh, someone replied saying they have the same problem and if I figure it out to help them
16:59<extremis>heh
16:59<extremis>nice
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17:15<extremis>bah, Ihave a feeling that I'm not going to get any resolution to my problem
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17:31<bline>mornin
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20:45<Timon>moegreen, you here?
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21:47<yussef>anyone using a soundblaster live for audio on their myth box?
21:48<yussef>ive been able to get audio working with onboard via82xx, but not with an sblive, following the directions on the mythtv docs
21:52<ahbritto>yussef: I was, am not, but will again.
21:52<yussef>ic
21:52<yussef>any special tricks you had to do to get alsa audio working with mythtv?
21:53<ahbritto>I just specified: /dev/dsp
21:53<ahbritto>So, I did not turn on MythTV alsa support. I don't even know where the option is...
21:53<yussef>ah ic
21:53<yussef>so you're using oss, and it works fine?
21:54<ahbritto>I was using ALSA oss emulation, yes it worked fine.
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21:56<yussef>what os are you running?
21:56<ahbritto>Gentoo
21:57<yussef>ic. i initially chose that for my myth box, but got frustrated because so many things seem specific to gentoo
21:57<ahbritto>In the long run, gentoo will be the easiest to manage and upgrade.
21:58<yussef>most likely :)
21:58<yussef>id really like to work on getting mythtv to run on the bsd's [if this hasnt been done already]
21:59<ahbritto>There is much talk by FreeBSD to move to gentoo's portage.
22:03<yussef>really?
22:04<yussef>cant say ive heard any of that. generally fbsd is pretty arrogant about its superiority in these matters, but im not expert on the subject
22:04<ahbritto>If you don't believe me, ask Jordan Hubbard.
22:05<yussef>not saying i dont believe you, only that i havent heard such
22:05<yussef>hasnt hubbard detached himself from much of the involvement with fbsd?
22:06<ahbritto>Gee, I thought he managed the Mac version.
22:07<yussef>mac osx doesnt have use the ports system does it?
22:08<ahbritto>yussef: This is way off topic. If you really care, try google.
22:08<yussef>was just about to
22:15<tdb30_>woot got my transmiter to work
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