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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-10-28

---Logopened Tue Oct 28 00:00:18 2003
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00:29<Chutt>why are people on my list so dumb?
00:29<rkulagow>everyone's been drinking dumb juice?
00:30<Chutt>like the guy that's insisting that there's only one directory for video storage and the live tv buffer
00:30<rkulagow>that must be one of the 800 messages i haven't read yet.
00:31<Chutt>try 6 or 7 messages about it
00:35<hadees>Chutt: i would have to say it is because there are only 3 options for a real htpc, freevo, myhtpc and mythtv
00:35<hadees>mythtv is the best so you get alot of windows folks trying to use linux
00:35<hadees>which they don't understand
00:36<hadees>or you could blame it on sun spots
00:36<hadees>either or
00:37<Cloak>5 points to the sun spots
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01:33<thor_>ugh
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01:53<tmk>any epia users in here?
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02:14<Chutt>tmk, hi
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02:43<thor_>tmk, power supply?
02:51<tmk>thor: eh?
02:51<tmk>sup chutt
02:52<tmk>i just powered on my epia
02:52<tmk>at first it didn't work
02:52<tmk>now it turns on
02:52<tmk>but nothing to screen
02:52<tmk>and noise like a helicopter out the headphone jack
02:56<Chutt>heh
02:56<Chutt>never heard of anything like that before
02:57<tmk>could be bad ram i guess
02:57<tmk>but it's' brand new
02:57<tmk>just out of the bag today
02:57<Chutt>power supply?
02:58<thor_>tmk, power supply
02:58<tmk>dunno
02:58<tmk>the fan spins
02:58<thor_>heh
02:58<tmk>on the cpu
02:58<Chutt>i'd try it with another power supply
02:58<tmk>yeah i guess that's the next plan
02:58<tmk>i really need it to work with this one though
02:58<thor_>tmk, 12 volt mobo?
02:58<tmk>since i've already cut the case to fit it
02:58<tmk>it's a epia-m
02:58<thor_>sorry, 12 volt dc
02:59<thor_>with the dc-ac daughter board?
02:59<tmk>no
02:59<thor_>ah
02:59<tmk>it's this one: http://www.directron.com/hec200srt.html
03:00<thor_>you get no POST on startup?
03:01<thor_>not even beeps?
03:01<tmk>like i said. no beeps - noise like a helicopter
03:01<tmk>thwup thwup thwup
03:01<tmk>fast
03:01<thor_>hmmmmm
03:01<tmk>constant also.. no breaks or anything
03:02<Chutt>it's either the board or power supply
03:02<thor_>yup
03:02<Chutt>bad ram would let it post
03:02<Chutt>well, at least it'd get to it =)
03:02<thor_>sure you have video plugged into the right place?
03:03<tmk>the vga port?
03:03<thor_>yup
03:03<tmk>yeah
03:03<Chutt>bed time for me
03:03<tmk>nite
03:03<thor_>night Chutt
03:03<tmk>the vga is on-board
03:03<thor_>right
03:03<Chutt>should be easy to rule out the power supply, though
03:03<tmk>yeaha
03:03<tmk>i just need to dig anohter one up
03:03<thor_>yup
03:04<thor_>this the Via Arena contest board?
03:05<tmk>aye
03:05<thor_>mine worked fine ... I could send it to you ...
03:06<thor_>(it's been gathering dust since they sent it to me)
03:07<tmk>well i think it's a bit early for that
03:07<tmk>how did you mount it?
03:07<tmk>metal screws? or plastic standoffs
03:07<thor_>mine came in a case
03:07<thor_>(lower powered)
03:08<thor_>nice little machine
03:09<tmk>cool
03:09<tmk>i built a machine around this one
03:09<thor_>SolarPC branded .... part of that vague effort to do a Linux-based VIA set top box before anyone realizes that an EPIA 500 won't decode a DVD
03:09<tmk>but it seems dead
03:10<tmk>heh
03:10<tmk>just add a pvr350!
03:10<thor_>yup
03:10<thor_>anyway ....
03:10<thor_>if you need the mobo, just send me your address
03:11<thor_>(also, PCI riser port, but no riser)
03:11<thor_>and no HD
03:12<thor_>seems to me, though
03:12<thor_>...
03:12<tmk>i have a riser card
03:12<thor_>ah
03:12<tmk>and everything really
03:12<tmk>just the mobo doesn't work right now
03:12<tmk>i bought a slot-dvd even :)
03:12<thor_>hmmmm
03:13<thor_>dvd might pop the power supply
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03:13<thor_>.... sorry .. should explain ....
03:13<thor_>they sent me a 500 in a case
03:13<thor_>with a DV inverter
03:13<tmk>ah
03:13<thor_>and no AC unit
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03:14<thor_>I got it working with an AC unit from Crap Shack
03:14<thor_>anyway, if you want the mobo and/or the case, just send me an e-mail (whatever@lamedomainname.com)
03:15<thor_>the ivtv driver works far too well for me to argue about postage
03:16<tmk>:)
03:16<tmk>i'll let you know
03:16<thor_>cool
03:16<tmk>does it have sp/dif out?
03:16<tmk>err s/pdif
03:17<thor_>in principal, yes ...
03:17<thor_>I plopped in an old Fujitsu drive to check things
03:17<thor_>(laptop drive, low power)
03:17<thor_>and most everything seemed to be fine
03:18<thor_>but I did not wire it up to a 5.1 receiver
03:20<mechou>hey Chutt, don't mean to ask a stupid question, but what does the function findAllProgramsToRecord supposed to do? Enumerate all programs that are scheduled to record?
03:21* thor_ thinks mechou is still pissed off he's missing local programming ....
03:22<mechou>hehe, you got me all figured out. To bad Chutt went to bed....
03:23<thor_>mechou, you just need to phrase your question with exact technical precision ... and then Chutt will be happy to answer it
03:24<mechou>hmm, my question doesn't have enough technical precision? Can you suggest an improvement?
03:24<thor_>well ....
03:25<thor_>should findAllProgramsToRecord() actually find all programs to record?
03:25<thor_>or not ?
03:25<thor_>dunno
03:26<mechou>ok, but I don't really think that's any more precise than what I stated....
03:26<thor_>no ... but I'm not hoping for a response
03:26<thor_>better to say ...
03:27<mechou>I'm afraid the nuance is lost on me....
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03:27<thor_>... if findAllProgramsToRecord() is supposed to find all programs to record, the I think in line x ....
03:27<mechou>Is my question too confrontational?
03:28<thor_>no
03:28<thor_>not precise enough
03:28<thor_>you said, what is some function supposed to do?
03:29<mechou>My question was supposed to just "get the converstion started," with the same follow-up as you just suggested....
03:29<thor_>I know
03:29<thor_>....
03:29<thor_>I'm being a bit pedantic ....
03:29<mechou>I still think the sql quey is fubar....
03:29<thor_>and I apologize
03:30<mechou>s/quey/query
03:30<thor_>yeah, the SQL stuff in that function block is inhuman
03:30<thor_>but the onus isn't on Chutt
03:30<thor_>it's on you
03:31<thor_>to say ... hey, this it too mixed up
03:31<thor_>and here's why
03:31<mechou>correct, and I want to know what line 9 of that query means.....
03:31<thor_>and here's how it could be better
03:31<thor_>I dunno
03:32<mechou>hopefull Chutt can explain that one for me....
03:32<thor_>no
03:32<thor_>wrong attitude
03:32<thor_>...
03:32<thor_>I know
03:32<thor_>... it's nice to have access to a piece of code that works well
03:33<mechou>wrong attitude?? I'm no expert on sql, just asking Chutt for a little help is considred wrong attitude?
03:33<thor_>...
03:33<thor_>well
03:34<mechou>thor_: In order to provide a fix I have to understand what's going on first....
03:34<thor_>... it could well be that Chutt has no idea how that code block works
03:34<thor_>he may not have written it
03:34<thor_>he may have written it
03:34<thor_>... and forgotten it
03:35<thor_>... small point ....
03:35<thor_>but important
03:35<thor_>...
03:35<mechou>and that would be fine, he can point me to someone who "owns" the code, or at least someone who can give me a quick run-by....
03:35<thor_> ... no ....
03:36<thor_>it may well be that nobody owns it
03:36<thor_>...
03:36<thor_>hang
03:36<thor_>on
03:36<thor_>... let me me back up a sec ...
03:36<thor_>open source, lots of contributors, etc., etc.
03:37<thor_>Chutt is really smart
03:37<thor_>but code comes in from all over the place
03:37<mechou>anyway, why are we discussing this (kissin' ass) instead of working on the problem?
03:38<thor_>the point is not to say, "AH HAAA .... here's where it breaks!"
03:38<thor_>the point is to say, "Ah HAAA ... I think this is why it breaks!"
03:38<mechou>no, I'm sorry if you think I'm coming across that way, but that isn't where I'm coming from.
03:39<mechou>It's more like: here's what I think what's goiung on, can you confirm?
03:39<thor_>slippery slope
03:40<thor_>anyway ... I've had only a few hours sleep and am not really making much sense ....
03:40<mechou>more eyeballs on the code....Don't see why this would be slippery. It's how code gets worked out everywhere I've worked. Intel & HP
03:41<thor_>yup
03:41<thor_>you are right
03:41<thor_>.... sorry
03:41<thor_>I'll get off the high horse now
03:41<thor_>what's the problem?
03:42<thor_>(oh crap, you're going going to give me an internal join)
03:42<mechou>thor_, where you around earlier on this channel, say 12 hrs ago?
03:42<mechou>s/where/were
03:42<mechou>right, u got it....
03:42<thor_>yup, on the educational channel thing?
03:43<mechou>right.
03:43<thor_>you get anywhere on looking at the sql code?
03:44<mechou>well, that's the thing. Piping that query into mysql does *not* return all scheduled recordings......
03:44<mechou>so, not being an expert in sql, need some little guidance....
03:45<mechou>and I was hoping that's where Chutt can come in....
03:46<thor_>so ...
03:46<mechou>who knows, maybe I'm piping the query wrong....
03:46<mechou>more eyeballs...
03:46<thor_>yeah ...
03:47<mechou>but so far no one on this channel can explain it....
03:47<thor_>the basic problem is still recording stuff on a channel that Myth doesn't really understand, yes?
03:47<thor_>... ie no xmltv data ...
03:48<mechou>well, not quite right. It has xmltv data, just "generic." "Eduactional Programming" randomly parsed into 2-3 hr. blocks....
03:49<thor_>ok
03:49<thor_>but no "semantic" understanding
03:49<mechou>right...
03:49<thor_>good
03:50<thor_>so ... not a simple problem to solve ....
03:50<mechou>in other words, program.title!=recod.title in DB
03:50<thor_>well, one level above that
03:50<mechou>s/recod/record
03:50<thor_>yeah
03:51<thor_>the terrible answer, it would seem ... is that you have to get into that SQL code and inject a reason why it should do something
03:51<thor_>... which is really, *really* hard ...
03:52<mechou>hmm, don't undrstand what you're saying?
03:52<mechou>get into sql code and inject reason??
03:52<thor_>Chutt's code knows what to do when it is presented with XMLTV alternatives
03:53<thor_>you need to give it another clause
03:53<thor_>...
03:53<thor_>when program.title="my program" and ....
03:53<thor_>which is hard
03:54<mechou>we need a special case for manual record (or more specifically, manual record where record.title != program title)
03:55<thor_>for your (and, presumably other's) purposes, you need a way to inject a non-XMLTV overide
03:55<mechou>don't see why this would be hard as you suggest....pretty much just another join if I figure it right....
03:56<mechou>thor, I don't think you understand, there is xml data for the channel I'm talking about. Or maybe I just dont understand what u're saying?
03:57<thor_>but the xmltv data does not specify the program
03:57<thor_>yes or no?
03:57<thor_>(hang on for 3 minutes, I need to pee)
03:58<mechou>yes it does. Pretend that the xml data programming info is "wrong," inthe sense title and timeslots dont "line up."
04:00<thor_>eh?
04:01<thor_>you have programming data, but it's wrong?
04:01<mechou>what eh?
04:01<thor_>what miracle where you expecting?
04:01<thor_>were
04:03<mechou>virtually everything program title on that channel is "Educational Programming." I think you need more sleep. Think about it. Isn't that a good reason to use manual recording as "override?"
04:04<mechou>when the xmltv info is "wrong."
04:05<mechou>it's not really wrong, it just has no "match-up" to what I'm manually recording....
04:05<thor_>to the extent that you think I need more sleep, I can almost guarantee that you are correct
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04:05<thor_>but what are you trying to make Myth do?
04:06<mechou>sigh....
04:06<mechou>I'm recording some coursework on the educational channel via myth.
04:06<thor_>there is a field that is "Educational Programming"
04:06<thor_>yes?
04:07<mechou>yes, where field == program.title in DB..
04:07<thor_>ok
04:07<mechou>who's on first?
04:07<thor_>who
04:07<thor_>(hehe)
04:09<mechou>so, u understand what I'm talking about now?
04:09<mechou>at least the basic problem, (not the solution)
04:09<thor_>and you want Myth to say, when the field (that is, when program.title) == "Educational Programming", I should do .... what ... ?
04:10<mechou>thor, have u ever scheduled a manaul record in myth?
04:10<thor_>yes
04:10<thor_>....
04:11<mechou>you get to assign your own title, correct?
04:11<thor_>yup .... but it's still a function of XMLTV data
04:12<thor_>sorry to keep bringing that up
04:12<mechou>no, not necessarily. The UI allows u to use *any* title
04:12<thor_>the UI might allow it
04:13<thor_>but that's not necessarily true of the programmatic logic ....
04:13<thor_>(don't know)
04:13<mechou>bravo, hence the bug.
04:13<thor_>well,
04:14<thor_>at least I'm up to speed on your problem
04:14<thor_>:-)
04:14<thor_>so .. can I tell Myth to manually record "mechou explains to thor what an idiot he is" ?
04:15<mechou>the title u assign to the manual recording goes to record.title in DB. program.title!=record.title, hence query is fubar.
04:15<thor_>ah .....
04:15<thor_>ok ....
04:16<thor_>well,
04:16<thor_>....
04:17<thor_>despite the fact that you definitely would not want to record, ""mechou explains to thor what an idiot he is" more than once
04:17<mechou>hmm, don't know what u mean?
04:17<thor_>ah ah
04:17<mechou>who's the idiot now?
04:18<thor_>still me
04:18<mechou>:)
04:18<thor_>so....
04:19<thor_>when the recording engine kicks in (every minute or so)
04:19<thor_>it never launches a recording
04:19<thor_>(in your story)
04:19<thor_>... because ....
04:19<mechou>well, I haven't checked that part of the code....
04:20<mechou>recording engine.
04:20<thor_>there's a bit of myth backend
04:20<mechou>I don't think myth queries the DB every minute.
04:21<thor_>that checks the database every minute or so
04:21<thor_>to look for changes
04:21<mechou>correct, settings.dbchanged field in db
04:21<thor_>sound right
04:22<thor_>sounds
04:22<mechou>but it certainly doesn't do the original query I'm talking about.
04:22<thor_>nope
04:22<mechou>every miniute
04:22<thor_>nope
04:23<thor_>I still think that what you want to do is operate on sub-XMLTV data
04:24<thor_>XMLTV says a channel is "blah blah" for 12 hours
04:24<thor_>and you want to pull sub-programming out of that
04:24<mechou>nah, that's too much a pita. Get manual record funcyion right, don't ever need to worry about it again....
04:25<thor_>so ... too be clear, you're saying manual recording is fubar'd?
04:25<thor_>to
04:26<mechou>only in the specific case when program.title!=record.title, yes...
04:27<thor_>sorry, that is not parsing here ....
04:27<mechou>actually, there's also the the xml timeslot issue. What u man manually want to record may span multiple xmltv timeslot boundaries....
04:28<mechou>thor_: what doesn't parse?
04:29<thor_>is xmltv is true or it isnt't
04:29<thor_>(this is getting Hegelian)
04:30<mechou>I don't understand why u're so hung up on xmltv. Think about it. Manual record should not have any dependence on xmltv data. You, the user, are providing complete info.
04:30<thor_>nope
04:31<thor_>myth has a lot of logic to work out in any given minute
04:31<mechou>yes, so?
04:31<thor_>program at any time on any channel?
04:31<mechou>this is one of the logic.
04:32<thor_>program at any time on *this* channel ...
04:32<thor_>etc., etc.
04:32<mechou>If a vcr can do it, I'm sure myth would have no trouble :)
04:33<thor_>how many slaves does a VCR have to deal with?
04:33<mechou>number of slaves or tuners have nothing to do with what I'm saying.
04:34<thor_>what does any time on any channel mean to a VCR?
04:34<thor_>what you want to do is say, "during this time on this channel, just do this"
04:35<thor_>but that is an exception to a whole bunch of other possibilities
04:35<mechou>what do you mean any time, any channel? When u set up manual record, u spec. channel, start time, stop time, title, etc. It's not any time, any channel.
04:36<thor_>but it has to be integrated with all the other combinatorial permutations
04:36<mechou>It a specific time at a specif channel.
04:36<thor_>and so is "Seinfeld, no matter what"
04:37<mechou>so, that's conflict resolution.
04:37<thor_>yup,
04:37<thor_>and it's hard
04:37<thor_>that's why that SQL stuff is so damn complicated
04:37<mechou>no, there is conflict resolution module....
04:38<thor_>hey, this is like the blind leading the blind
04:38<thor_>Chutt wrote the conflict resolution stuff
04:39<thor_>he know what Myth is doing on a TV basis
04:39<thor_>all I'm saying
04:39<thor_>is that if you have a complaint
04:39<thor_>you need to specifically be able to say
04:40<thor_>I told it to do X under constraints of Y
04:40<thor_>and it did Z
04:40<thor_>what's wrong?
04:40<mechou>which is what I just explained to you.
04:41<mechou>did X, under Y, Z happened (or didn't happen)
04:41<thor_>ok, fine,
04:41<thor_>I'm an idiot
04:41<thor_>appeal to Chutt
04:42<mechou>sigh. You going sarcastic on me?
04:42<thor_>hey,
04:42<thor_>I don't have an answer
04:42<thor_>so it's frustrating
04:43<thor_>... and I need to sleep
04:43<mechou>no, I'd like to think people put there heads together to come up w/ the answer. Rome wasn't built in a day.....
04:43<mechou>s/there their
04:43<Octane>thor did you manage to post?
04:44<thor_>Octane, post what?
04:44<Octane>POST
04:44<thor_>mechou, agreed ....
04:44<Octane>oh it was tmk not you sorry
04:44<thor_>Octane, tmk's POST?
04:44<thor_>nm
04:48<thor_>Hey, I know this is OT, but anyone been to the Dominac Republic?
04:48<mechou>Quoi??
04:48<thor_>Dominican
04:48<thor_>Que?
04:49<thor_>I need to be there on the 18th (November) for a wedding
04:49<mechou>Why do u ask? You smuggling dope??
04:50<mechou>make sure u get me some....
04:50<mechou>hehe
04:50<thor_>He
04:52<thor_>I'm an old man (over 30, married, children, etc.), just looking for a hotel reccomendation ....
04:53<mechou>sorry, can't help u there....best man ought to be able to tell yu, no?
04:53<thor_>Yeah, 'cept I'm the best man
04:53<mechou>oops, u better get on it....
04:54<thor_>... crap ...
04:54<mechou>expedia ought to be able to give u suggestions w/ rankings, no?
04:55<thor_>yeah .... I got a bunch of stuff from AMEX travel 3 months ago that I should have dealt with at the time ...
04:56<mechou>thor_: where do you live?
04:56<thor_>execellent question
04:57<thor_>(even if I can't spell excellent)
04:57<thor_>right now, DC
04:58<mechou>heck man, go to the Dominican Republic consulate. They'll set u straight....
04:58<thor_>mechou, where are you?
04:59<mechou>they'll stuff u so full of the tourist crap it will be coming out ur pants.
04:59<mechou>CA, northern, no fires.
04:59<thor_>I spent a lot of time in the late 1990's in San Francisco
04:59<mechou>well, maybe 5 years ago we had fires.
05:00<mechou>yeah, I'm in Cupertino
05:00<thor_>groovy
05:00<thor_>you know anyone in the Linux IPO realm?
05:00<mechou>thor_, u know, I never lived in SF. That would be cool.
05:01<thor_>(how long have you been there?_
05:01<mechou>Some. But who's going ipo these days?
05:01<mechou>10 years
05:01<thor_>hang on ....
05:02<thor_>you lived in Cupertino for 10+ years
05:02<thor_>and you don't know VA people, etc.?
05:02<mechou>no, Cupertino for 3, Sunyyvale, various other palces in South Bay for 7.
05:03<thor_>hmmmm
05:03<thor_>....
05:03<thor_>tell you what
05:03<mechou>na, I don't follow VA much. Are they still Linux HW, or have they changed?
05:04<thor_>solve the SQL-recording problem that Myth TV has
05:04<thor_>and I'll set up a dinner meeting with the ex-CTO of e-toys (hee hee)
05:04<thor_>and if you solve it well
05:04<thor_>I'll fly out
05:05<mechou>ain't he in Folsom prison :)?
05:05<thor_>have dinner with both of ypu
05:05<thor_>not e-Toys
05:05<thor_>good code
05:06<thor_>in fact, great code, picked up by the VC group
05:06<mechou>crap, maybe I'm getting confused. E-Toys, weren't they busted, or did the just go under?
05:06<thor_>they went **very** bankrupt
05:06<thor_>but early in the collapse
05:07<thor_>when principals could still walk away with a fortune
05:07<thor_>like Torvalds
05:07<mechou>one of the early poster children of the internet bust
05:07<mechou>etoys.
05:07<thor_>yes,
05:08<thor_>but the code was really, really code
05:08<thor_>good
05:08<thor_>anyway, look him up ....
05:08<thor_>Rob Ferber
05:08<thor_>tell him I said hello
05:09<mechou>u know what town he lives?
05:09<mechou>or shoul I ask my VC?
05:09<mechou>or should I ask my VC?
05:09<thor_>he's SF
05:09<mechou>hehe, just joking.
05:09<thor_>or immediately south
05:10<thor_>(around the airport)?
05:10<mechou>where did you work when u lived inb SF?
05:10<mechou>Burlingame?
05:10<mechou>Millbrae?
05:10<thor_>never lived there, was a resident of NYC at the time
05:11<mechou>I grew up in NYC
05:11<thor_>best city on earth
05:11<thor_>bar none
05:11<mechou>yep. All the babes. More models than u can stick a stick at.
05:12<mechou>oops, meant shake :)
05:13<thor_>shake, stick, whatever, wtill NYC
05:13<mechou>Lucy Liu was my classmate.
05:13<thor_>still
05:14<thor_>Village?
05:14<mechou>Naw, I lived in Queens.
05:14<mechou>went to school in Manhattan.
05:15<thor_>Oh, you're "bridge and tunnell" crowd?
05:15<thor_>he
05:15<thor_>je
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05:15<thor_>I'm Canadian
05:15<mechou>yep, that's me. Long Island Railroad saved my ass....
05:16<thor_>what the hell any company was trying to do to hire me is a complete mystery
05:16<mechou>Where did you work?
05:16<thor_>Now?
05:16<mechou>now & in NYC
05:17<mechou>any part of Canada I would know?
05:17<thor_>When in NYC, at PwC (nice office overlooking Radio City)
05:17<thor_>if you want to see Canada
05:17<thor_>go skiing
05:17<mechou>U're in finance?
05:18<thor_>go to Whistler
05:18<thor_>I'm an entrepreneur at the moment
05:18<mechou>Is that where u're from, so to speak?
05:18<thor_>hard one
05:18<thor_>mostly
05:19<thor_>I speak 5 languages
05:19<thor_>workin on a lot of stuff
05:19<mechou>English, French, Spanish, what othe two, Norweigian?
05:20<thor_>English (good)
05:20<thor_>French (pas mal)
05:20<thor_>Latin (classical)
05:20<mechou>Seriously, what are u working on, that u can share?
05:20<thor_>Arabic (wife)
05:21<thor_>couple of things
05:21<thor_>give me 5 minutes, I need to piss (again)
05:22<mechou>Arabic? U can go work for CIA and FBI :)
05:24<thor_>mechou, I'm not American
05:24<mechou>sheesh, they'll probably take virtually anybody....
05:24<thor_>nope
05:24<mechou>do you tune in to al'jazeera?
05:24<thor_>I know lots oif expats in DC
05:25<thor_>of Arabic origins
05:25<thor_>good salary
05:25<thor_>good benefits
05:25<thor_>etc
05:26<thor_>but renounce non-US citizenship
05:26<thor_>whatever
05:26<thor_>not my bag
05:26<thor_>nothing for
05:26<thor_>or against'
05:26<thor_>anyway
05:27<mechou>yeah, expect CIA and FBI is too lily white to accept US ciizens of Arabic descent.
05:27<thor_>they will take them
05:27<mechou>according to the latest Newsweek.
05:27<thor_>but they have to give up second citizenship
05:28<mechou>They take tem and chuck them out in a year or so....
05:28<thor_>what are you up to in Cupetino?
05:28<thor_>Cupertino?
05:28<mechou>Intel.
05:28<thor_>great
05:28<thor_>labs?
05:28<mechou>Microprocessor research....
05:29<thor_>ok ... fine .... undergrad ... Intel fellow ... whatever ... what are you doing?
05:31<mechou>well, give u a hint. Worked at HP & Intel. Microprossors, can't go into much more than that on a public forum, I'm afraid....
05:31<thor_>OK
05:31<thor_>fine
05:31<thor_>interesting work?
05:32<mechou>It pays the rent.
05:32<mechou>:)
05:32<thor_>in Cupertino, that's a lot
05:32<thor_>you don't need any hints on mysql then ....
05:32<mechou>Actually, I'm getting too old for research....
05:33<mechou>sure I do.
05:35<thor_>Seriously, if you're interested in doing something Linux-oriented ... pop me a cv ... and I'll send it along to Rob ... he made way too much money in the e-toys IPO (he was CTO at the time)
05:35<thor_> anyway, you're in the right part of the country ....
05:36-!-MrChook_ [~mca@c210-49-88-138.rochd3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #mythtv
05:36<thor_>according to slashdot, the geeks are "back in charge!"
05:36<mechou>I don't know, I believe linux is here to stay, but has anyone really figured out a viable long-term business model for linux business? (I'm not talking Redhat)
05:37<thor_>I have no idea
05:37<mechou>What did u do at PwC?
05:37<thor_>I have a PhD in economics, and I have no idea
05:38<thor_>decide where they should but their dot-com money
05:38<mechou>if you were in finance, u probably have enough background in business to figure that out.
05:38<thor_>s/but/put
05:38<thor_>nope
05:38<mechou>economic modeling?
05:38<thor_>crap shoot
05:38<thor_>yup
05:38<thor_>and then some
05:39<mechou>You work with any Physics types while at PwC?
05:39<thor_>nope, but I spent 10 months at the Santa Fe Institute
05:40<mechou>cool. Did you enjoy your residence at Santa Fe Inst.?
05:40<thor_>sublime
05:41<thor_>but not part of practical reality
05:41<thor_>and that's what I spent the 4 years of my life convincing people who wanted to hire me
05:41<mechou>Well, that's what happens when u go to an Institute.
05:42<thor_>hey, you're close to PA
05:42<mechou>Used to live in PA for a while....
05:42<thor_>sorry, PA = Palo Alto
05:43<mechou>yes, I understood.
05:43<thor_>ah
05:43<thor_>so, go work for Google
05:43<thor_>they're going to do an auction ... it seems
05:44<mechou>Dude, If I wanted to go work at an internet company , I'd probably go to ebay. At least they have a business model I can understand.
05:44<mechou>:)
05:44<thor_>ok
05:44<thor_>hey
05:44<thor_>you're in Cupertino
05:45<thor_>wtf are you up to
05:45<mechou>Google is cool, but they have an IPO already, which means I can't be a robber baron.
05:45<thor_>harumph ...
05:46<thor_>their IPO may be a public auction
05:46<mechou>who, google or ebay?
05:46<thor_>which would be insanely interesting to be a part of
05:46<thor_>google
05:46<thor_>I know the sub-CTO
05:47<mechou>yes, for you economics/game theory types. Not fun for the *participants*
05:47<thor_>ah
05:47<thor_>clever
05:48<thor_>but if the "insiders" know the value of their technology
05:48<thor_>then of value to them
05:48<MrChook_>thor_, you used to work at PwC ?
05:49* MrChook_ works there now
05:50<thor_>MrChook. yup
05:51<MrChook_>cool
05:51<thor_>worst run company I have ever seen (of not many(
05:52<thor_>)
05:52* MrChook_ grins
05:52<thor_>but they payed me well
05:52<MrChook_>i woulnd't know, I'm just a code monkey 8^)
05:52<thor_>whereabouts?
05:52<MrChook_>brisban
05:52<MrChook_>e
05:52<thor_>AU?
05:52<MrChook_>yup
05:52<thor_>excellent
05:52<MrChook_>only 600 or so staff, not too big
05:53<thor_>I was there once on a PWC ticket
05:53<thor_>great city
05:53<MrChook_>but I'm not going to comment on how the place is run
05:53<thor_>are you guys IBM now, or are you accounting?
05:53<MrChook_>brisbane is a damn nice place to live
05:53<MrChook_>nah, I'm with ABAS/GRMS
05:54<thor_>Did consulting split cleany?
05:54<thor_>cleanly?
05:54<MrChook_>depends on what you mean by clean
05:54<thor_>amicable?
05:54<MrChook_>to be honest I don't really know, never heard of any major problems
05:55<mechou>Where's the Chinese wall???
05:55<MrChook_>did you hear about the "Monday" thing?
05:55<MrChook_>in China?
05:55<thor_>I have a "Monday" business card
05:55<thor_>which I cherish
05:55<mechou>wise guy, eh??
05:55<MrChook_>cherish?
05:56<thor_>last vestigage of the dot com era
05:56<MrChook_>don't tell me you think it was a good idea.. oh
05:56<thor_>that the market should give 15 billion
05:57<MrChook_>some of the emails from partners talking up the name made me laugh
05:57<thor_>to a company that failed to convince even HP
05:57<mechou>hehe...
05:57<thor_>it was sublime
05:57<MrChook_>cost them over $1M or so for something that got dumped like a hot potato
05:58<MrChook_>did you ever see wearemonday.co.uk ?
05:58<thor_>yeah ....
05:58<thor_>... well ...
05:58* MrChook_ sniggers
05:58<thor_> ... move the books ...
05:58-!-MrChook_ is now known as MrChook
05:59<thor_>and IBM are hte guys who got totally fucked
05:59<mechou>no, you meant MrCrook :)
05:59<MrChook>i dunno much about the details
05:59<MrChook>mechou, nah, I'm just a tiny cog in the machine
06:00<thor_>IBM now has retirement liabilities that exceed their purchase price by 3-4 times
06:00<MrChook>plus, I don't really care that much about all that sorta shit
06:00<thor_>nope
06:00<thor_>me neither
06:00<thor_>just that he guys I'm working with now
06:00<thor_>are all ex-PwC
06:01<thor_>and love to exclaim "how they f*ked Big Blue"
06:02<MrChook>heh
06:03<thor_>MrChook, where are you?
06:04<MrChook>where?
06:04<thor_>geographically .. just curious?
06:04<MrChook>brisbane
06:04<MrChook>8^)
06:04<thor_>excellent
06:05<thor_>is PWC actually seperate there?
06:05<MrChook>well, it's all separate really
06:05<thor_>But legally?
06:06* MrChook doesn't really know
06:06<MrChook>webiste says... PricewaterhouseCoopers refers to the network of member firms of PricewaterhouseCoopers International Limited, each of which is a separate and independent legal entity.
06:07<mechou>BS Cough....
06:07<MrChook>just a legal trick to limit liability as far as I'm aware
06:08<mechou>exactly.
06:08<thor_>I went to Israel/Palestine during the time of the merger (1998/1998?) and it was the Israeli version of the (American) INS that gave me an insanely hard time ...
06:08<MrChook>offer up a couple of partners as sacrificial goats and keep on trading
06:08<thor_>1998/1999
06:09<thor_>crap on me for speaking Arabic
06:09<mechou>hehe...
06:09<mechou>how did they know u spoke arabic?
06:09<thor_>they looked at my passport
06:09<mechou>American INS in Israel
06:10<MrChook>INS?
06:10<mechou>Immigration and Naturalization Service
06:10<MrChook>ahh
06:10<mechou>Border guards.
06:10<thor_>no
06:10<thor_>not customs
06:11<thor_>different beasts
06:11<mechou>well, not customs.
06:11<thor_>sorry
06:11<thor_>I'm a bit a sensitvie
06:11<thor_>anyway
06:11<mechou>But haven't they since consolidated after 9/11?
06:11<thor_>ha
06:11<MrChook>I'm just glad I live in AU
06:12<thor_>and double ha
06:12<thor_>anyone see frontline in early October
06:12<mechou>which program?
06:13<mechou>Iraq?
06:13<thor_>Frontline, searching for the Lacawana 6?
06:13<mechou>I missed that one...
06:13<thor_>program myth
06:13<mechou>no, I remember now. I did see it.
06:13<thor_>it's important
06:14<mechou>6 arabic youths who went to paki
06:14<thor_>you see the last 4-5 minutes ?
06:14<mechou>yeah, saw trhe whole program. Remind me about last 5 min?
06:15<thor_>(uhm ... us citizen)
06:15<mechou>the US citizen that got killed?
06:15<thor_>yeah, whatever
06:15<thor_>probably nothing
06:15<thor_>just an american
06:16<mechou>well, they didn't set out to kill him specifically, but the imam that he was with.....
06:16<mechou>what is that called, colateral damage?
06:16<thor_>yeah, ok
06:16<mechou>not that it would be justified.
06:17<thor_>whatever, Jefferson isn't respected anywhere
06:17<mechou>at least that's the "official story"
06:18<thor_>he's just a "founding father"
06:18<thor_>that doesn't mean anything
06:18<mechou>well, I'm not optimistic. Arnold Schwartznegger in CA, Bush will probably be re-elected in 2004. Who are thewse people that put crap in office?
06:19<thor_>great
06:19<thor_>fine
06:19<thor_>take out Colling Powell
06:19<MrChook>the american public and the money that is spent on putting a good spin on idiots that they vote for ?
06:19<mechou>I'm suprise nobody has recalled George W. for lying.
06:20<thor_>ok
06:20<thor_>kill me
06:20<thor_>I'm not American
06:20<mechou>that ought to be the real recall.
06:20<thor_>I live in DC
06:21<mechou>DC people get a skewed view of the world :)
06:21<thor_>why?
06:21<mechou>it's called beltway mentality.
06:22<thor_>wrong
06:22<thor_>the difference between me and mushwrawi is that I have pull
06:23<thor_>who's "mushwrawi"?
06:24<thor_>heh?
06:24* MrChook has no idea
06:24<mechou>You know there's is something wrong when we have people named Bush, Dick, & Colon in office (Chris Rock)
06:24<thor_>stop googling?
06:24<MrChook>google tell sme nothing
06:25<thor_>there's lots there
06:25<thor_>he was probably a very nasty guy
06:25<MrChook>Your search - mushwrawi - did not match any documents.
06:25<thor_>ok
06:26<mechou>go to http://www.pbs.org/frontline
06:26<thor_>yup
06:27<thor_>a crazy dude
06:27<thor_>a fundamentalist
06:27<thor_>in short
06:27<thor_>a total nutbar
06:27<thor_>but
06:27<thor_>a US citizen
06:28<mechou>Well, don't forget Waco and Branch Davidians......
06:28<thor_>ok
06:28<thor_>fine
06:28<MrChook>nothing there either
06:28<thor_>he payed his taxes
06:28<MrChook>any religous fanatic scares the shit outta me
06:28<thor_>non worse than Ashcroft
06:29<MrChook>i don't care what god or prohpet they profess to follow
06:29<thor_>exactly
06:29<thor_>so
06:29<thor_>some
06:29<thor_>dude
06:29<thor_>with a very mis-aligned
06:29<thor_>sense of or worng or right
06:30<mechou>well, that's my point. We are an equal opportunity fanatic killer regime.
06:30<thor_>hang on
06:30<thor_>you are stealing my (frontline) thunder
06:31<thor_>this guy is not just "vaguely" middle eastern
06:31<mechou>you're taking too long to get there:)
06:31<thor_>he's a fucking US citizen!!!!!
06:32<thor_>is that short enough for you?
06:32<mechou>Dude, we covereed this like 1 hr. ago already.
06:33<mechou>Thunder clap over 1 hour ago....
06:33<thor_>mechou, cool ... please still send me your CV"
06:34<thor_>I will still send it to people I know in SV
06:35<thor_>I'm still a happy go lucky Canadian
06:35<mechou>why don't you msg me with your email.
06:36<thor_>mechou, just send something to crazynutbar@lamedomainname.com
06:37<mechou>haha....circular file, eh?
06:37<thor_>no, just anything to lamedomainname.com
06:38<mechou>dude, are you for real? that's your domain name?
06:39<thor_>mechou, yeah
06:39<mechou>that's funny.
06:39<thor_>where are you at geograohically?
06:39<thor_>geogrphically?
06:39<mechou>Cupertino, remember?
06:40<thor_>ok
06:40<thor_>give Rob Ferber an email
06:42<mechou>u got his email?
06:42<thor_>one sec
06:43<thor_>not right in front of me ....
06:43<mechou>that's OK. I'm really in no hurry :)
06:44<thor_>more interestingly .... how do you think new DOT com is doing in SF ...
06:45<mechou>thor_: nobody wants to be associated with the internet here in SV> It's back to basics. Good business model is fundamental.
06:45<thor_>good
06:45<thor_>you know how to code?
06:46<thor_>I mean C++ at a bash prompt?
06:46<mechou>in a past life. Too low level for me now except as a hobby....
06:46<mechou>yeah, I still can code if I need to.
06:46<thor_>ok,
06:47<thor_>look
06:47<thor_>I don't represent any mony
06:47<thor_>money
06:47<thor_>I represent only the promoise of money
06:48<mechou>hey, that's what all people say.
06:48<mechou>:)
06:48<mechou>But at least u're up front about it....:)
06:48<thor_>yup
06:49<thor_>I'm a CTO
06:49<thor_>backed by 5 persons
06:50<thor_>who want to make money off of Sarbanes Oxley
06:50<mechou>% people holding the pursestrings?
06:50<mechou>s%/5
06:50<thor_>%?
06:50<mechou>s/%/5
06:50<mechou>typo
06:50<thor_>yup
06:51<thor_>but wrong question
06:51<mechou>Consultants at building the Chinese Wall?
06:51<thor_>No.
06:51<thor_>Major principal is ex-Ford administration
06:52<thor_>this is DC- bases
06:52<thor_>bassed
06:52<thor_>based
06:52<thor_>...
06:52<thor_>...
06:53<mechou>I thought Sarbanes Oxley implies Chines Wall and (better) accounting?
06:53<thor_>Yup
06:53<mechou>So what am I missing?
06:53<thor_>Code word == "continuous"
06:54<mechou>you mean like "insurance?"
06:54<thor_>nope
06:54<thor_>like data flows in
06:55<thor_>and the pengaton has payed 50 million dollars
06:55<thor_>and it's not
06:55<thor_>continouous
06:58<mechou>sorry, must be densse today. missing your drift.....
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07:12<thor_>yup
07:13<thor_>sorry to poloticise myth
07:14* MrChook shrugs
07:14<MrChook>happens on most chanels at some time or another
07:14<MrChook>any idea how to cast a string as a QString?
07:15<thor_>(cast *)
07:15<MrChook>i have a function that takes a QString.. can I just call it like this?
07:15<MrChook>function(QString("some string"))
07:16<MrChook>C is not something I know a lot about
07:16<MrChook>nope, that doesn't work
07:16<thor_>receiving is oK
07:17<thor_>returning is complicated
07:18<MrChook>it's a void so that aint the problem
07:18<MrChook>playing with stuff to set the window caption
07:19<MrChook>i have a function that sets it but it takes a qstring
07:19<thor_>myth logic is pretty good
07:20<thor_>if you have a void
07:22<MrChook>well, this is the funciton... pretty simple
07:22<MrChook>void MythMainWindow::SetCaption(QString caption)
07:22<MrChook>{
07:22<MrChook> setCaption(caption);
07:22<MrChook>}
07:23<MrChook>if I call it with a qstring is works but I can't figure out how to call it with a plain string
07:23<MrChook>I'm sure I had this working last night but it fails now
07:24<thor_>drink less, program more ....
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07:27<MrChook>ahhh, hmm
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08:36<MrChook>ah hah !
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08:42<riksta>does mythtv has issues with BT8X8 cards? i dont seem to be able to change channel, however i can change it fine in 'tvtime'?
08:42<riksta>maybe i went wrong in the configuration?
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09:54<o_cee><titles> in the theme is not possible to do any other way than <image>? not possible to use a translated text?
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13:05<o_cee>would a simple change in tv_schedule.xml make it possible to add one more type to buttondef? i'm talking about PROGFIND that belongs to <type>TV_SCHEDULE</type>.. would chaning that to TV_PROGFIND make it possible to change that button as well? is it that simple? can't recompile right now since i'm recording
13:07<o_cee>ah dammit, don't need to recompile that:) it's an xml
13:08<o_cee>it actually worked :) great..
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14:41<De_Mon>how high is the replay value of GunValkyre?
14:41<De_Mon>oops wrong window :)
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15:34<mechou>Hey Chutt, you around? I need some help with a big sql query code block in myth.....
15:37<Chutt>yes, i've seen you going on about that
15:37<Chutt>i didn't write that code
15:37<Chutt>i don't care to spend time looking at it
15:38<mechou>Can you point me to someone who can?
15:38<Chutt>nope
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16:18<D-side>anyone around who's successfully made an IR-200L work?
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18:16<orogor>hi
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19:07<D-side>anyone with an actisys IR-200L ?
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19:33<D-side>barring that, anyone know of an lirc irc support forum?
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20:08<D-side>ugh this is pissing me off.
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22:18<D-side>anyone around?
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22:41<hadees>anyone seen http://www.netremote.org?
22:42<hadees>i wish there was a backend for linux, it would make my mythtv box so cool
22:57<cesman>Am I may be mistaken, but you can do with with Linux...
22:57<cesman>a properly configured firewall and mythweb
23:00<cesman>ok, looks like netremote maybe able to do some more
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23:06<MadScientist>can anyone tell me if a pentium pro 200 would work acceptably if I get a card with mpeg encode & decode chips such as the wintv pvr-250 or pvr-300
23:21<cesman>Probably not a 250, maybe a 350
23:21<cesman>http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-3.html#ss3.1
23:31<MadScientist>hmm ok, thanks
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 29 00:00:35 2003