Back to Home / #mythtv / 2003 / 11 / Prev Day | Next Day
#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-11-16

---Logopened Sun Nov 16 00:00:20 2003
---Daychanged Sun Nov 16 2003
00:00<Doukegata>it looked lie this before: srw-rw-rw- 1 root root 0 Nov 15 20:12 lircd=
00:00<Doukegata>s/lie/like
00:04* Doukegata explodes
00:05<cmorgan>lircd device?
00:05<cmorgan>you'll be using the lirc device i would imagine
00:11<Doukegata>nevermind about the lircd thing, I figured it out. sort of. it's still not working for me, though
00:11<Doukegata>back to my transcoding zombie...
00:11<Doukegata>I'm getting: 2003-11-15 23:05:09 Transcoding /var/video/record/1054_20031106013000_20031106020000.nuv aborted because of cutlist update
00:12<Doukegata>in the backend.log
00:23<Doukegata>2003-11-15 23:15:29 Position map found
00:23<Doukegata>IVTVFB_IOCTL_GET_STATE: Invalid argument
00:24<Doukegata>my front end crashes every time i want to playback in myth
00:34<Teflon->yuck
00:35<Doukegata>yeah, yuck is right
00:36-!-cmorgan [~cmorgan@cpe-68-118-244-105.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
00:37<Chutt>you don't have the ivtv-fb module loaded, or your ivtv driver is out of sync with your mythtv install.
00:38<Doukegata>it IS loaded
00:38* Doukegata waits for mythcommflag to finish
00:38<Chutt>then your ivtv driver is the wrong version for the version of mythtv you're running.
00:39<Doukegata>it's pretty new... either CVS or axboe's
00:40<Chutt>what's that have to do with anything?
00:40<josephk>well you need nov 8th which I believe is cvs
00:41<josephk>plus latest myth cvs = fun fun fun
00:41<Doukegata>so, what. now that a new ivtv cvs is out, it's incompatible with myth?
00:41<Chutt>unless you're using mythtv cvs, yes.
00:42<Chutt>i emailed the ivtv list, and both mythtv lists about that
00:42* Doukegata explodes
00:42<josephk>I belive I read both emails
00:42<josephk>or believe
00:42<Doukegata>could I get a subject line on that?
00:43<Chutt>you can search for it, or i can search for it
00:45<josephk>ivtv/mythtv cvs changes for pvr-350 decoder.
00:45<josephk>Nov\xA08,\xA02003,\xA02:00\xA0PM
00:45<josephk>Post #1 of 1 (68 views)
00:45<josephk>
00:46<josephk>http://www.gossamer-threads.com/archive/MythTV_C2/Dev_F10/ivtv/mythtv_cvs_changes_for_pvr-350_decoder._P89009/
00:48<Doukegata>well, there goes my effortless gentoo package installation
00:49<Chutt>use an older ivtv driver
00:49<Chutt>current one's busted, anyway
00:49<josephk>howso chutt?
00:49<Chutt>the internal buffering's messed up
00:50<Chutt>much more fragile, easier to break it
00:50<josephk>ahh
00:50<josephk>which are you using?
00:50<josephk>10/29?
00:50<Chutt>something around there
00:50<josephk>hehe
00:51<Doukegata>anything before 11/08/03 would work okay, i take it?
00:51<Chutt>yup
00:51* Doukegata reads up on CVS
00:51<josephk>that might explain why sometimes I would get 20 minutes, and others I would get 20 hours
00:52<josephk>thats my slogan now
00:55<CyberKne2>:| Why does mysql hate me so?
00:55<CyberKne2>Oracle and I ... we're such great pals, but mysql ... it abhors me.
00:55<josephk>it smells oracle on you
00:56<CyberKne2>is mysql's IN (subquery) syntax different?
00:56-!-CyberKne2 is now known as CyberKnet
00:57<CyberKnet>With oracle, I can just use... 'AND COL NOT IN (SELECT COL FROM TAB)' or 'AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT COL FROM TAB WHERE COL=OTHER_TABLE.COL)'
00:57<CyberKnet>but mysql seems to not like it, though the docs say it should.
01:00<josephk>no it doesn't
01:00<josephk>apparently IN only likes values
01:00<josephk>no subselects
01:01-!-Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: kvandivo, Katmando, Octane, Morph, bline, De_Mon, o_cee, yebyen, engie, FryGuy, (+18 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
01:03-!-Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: GreyFoxx, henry_, dja, Magick, Netslayer, Gumby, Teflon-, dopez, lmatter, term
01:03<CyberKnet>Hmm. I'm gonna have to read the docs again.
01:03<CyberKnet>I swear I read in there that it supported subselects within an IN
01:03-!-Netsplit over, joins: GreyFoxx, Magick, kvandivo, lmatter, warlord-afk, harba, Captain_Murdoch, bline, Teflon-, FryGuy (+10 more)
01:03-!-Netsplit over, joins: Doukegata, ahbritto, lmatter_work, Cloak, poptix, o_cee, linagee, dopez, elho, yebyen (+8 more)
01:03<josephk>I'm reading comments that say it aint so...hehe
01:03<CyberKnet>I must be wrong though. =) Because it sure doesn't work! heh
01:03<josephk>so take that with a grain of salt
01:03<CyberKnet>Thanks joseph
01:03<CyberKnet>Appreciate your insight.
01:03<josephk>not insight
01:04<josephk>just reading:)
01:04<CyberKnet>Yeah. Apparently I was reading the 4.1 docs, not the 4.0 docs. Sorry for the hassle.
01:04<josephk>insight comes through ones own experience doesn't it?;)
01:04<CyberKnet>I did try to do the right thing and read the docs though =)
01:05<CyberKnet>thus my exasperation when it didn't work. heh
01:05<josephk>hey I don't care...I'm not chutt...I won't kill you
01:05<josephk>:D
01:05<CyberKnet>=D
01:05<CyberKnet>The force runs deep within that one. *grin*
01:05<josephk>Chutt KILL HIM!
01:05<josephk>hehe
01:05<CyberKnet>At first when I joined the mailing list, I thought I was misinterpreting it.
01:06<CyberKnet>then ... I realised his way... you really get to appreciate it after a while. heh
01:07<josephk>riight:)
01:07<CyberKnet>It's like he says "You're an idiot!" and I would at first try to calm the noobs ... "You're taking it the wrong way!" and he would reply "No, they're just an idiot!"
01:09<CyberKnet>cause ... I'm definitely not one of those noobs ... really. heh.
01:09<josephk>riight:)
01:09<CyberKnet>You can tell that because I say 'noobs'. Only a non-noob would say that.
01:10<josephk>zzzz
01:11<linagee>Slashdot requires you to wait 20 seconds between hitting 'reply' and submitting a comment.
01:11<linagee>It's been 4 seconds since you hit 'reply'!
01:14-!-kro` [~user@sdn-ap-020dcwashP0212.dialsprint.net] has joined #mythtv
01:15<kro`>Does anyone know how to rebuild the program guide database? Mine got corrupted somehow.
01:15<kro`>mythfilldatabaase only seems to add new stuff, it won't touch the stuff that is currently corrupt.
01:18<josephk>try using setup to clear you current program settings?
01:22<kro`>hmm. I'll give it a try
01:22-!-DogBoy_ [~john@cs2428116-149.houston.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
01:31<josephk>hmmm....10/29 and 10/31 wouldn't work with my mythcvs
01:31<josephk>time to update
01:55-!-warlord-afk is now known as warlord
02:00<Doukegata>I thought chutt was telling me that if you have the cvs of either myth or ivtv, you need the cvs of the other
02:06<warlord>I just "upgraded" to current-cvs today, and my myth box is now extremely unstable.
02:06<warlord>I keep getting ivtv dma timeouts.
02:09<josephk>well I didn't have much trouble with current-cvs of ivtv
02:09<josephk>besides the normal waiting for data
02:10<warlord>Well, it's feeling like myth isn't reading the data fast enough off my card..
02:10<josephk>I tried reducing the bitrate, which seems to stabilize live tv
02:11<warlord>I did, too, but it hasn't helped.
02:11-!-chopra [~chopra@CPE0010a702d464-CM000039ae486b.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #mythtv
02:11<josephk>but that is only from little testing
02:11<josephk>are you using current-cvs of ivtv?
02:11<warlord>yes
02:11<josephk>chutt tells me the internal buffering is screwed up
02:11<warlord>Lovely..
02:12<chopra>anyone have thoughts on mythtv along with directv? Does it work well, or just mostly, or perhaps suck?
02:12<josephk>dunno
02:13<chopra>I guess I'll troll the list archives some more for a bit
02:16<warlord>ok, I just sent my backend backtrace to the -dev list.
02:17<warlord>hopefully it will help.
02:26-!-kro` [~user@sdn-ap-020dcwashP0212.dialsprint.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
02:38-!-linagee__ [~linagee@68.101.151.129] has joined #mythtv
02:40-!-warlord is now known as warlord-afk
02:47-!-Teflon- [~rhooper@CPE00a0cc30463d-CM014110200038.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
02:51-!-linagee [~linagee@ip68-101-151-129.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
03:04-!-chopra [~chopra@CPE0010a702d464-CM000039ae486b.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #mythtv []
03:14-!-Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Chiphead
03:18-!-CodyB [ulfy@12-206-79-10.client.attbi.com] has left #mythtv [" "]
03:25-!-Chiphead [~Chiphead@dhcp160166234.columbus.rr.com] has joined #MythTV
03:27-!-marc [~Marc@195.218.18.21] has joined #mythtv
03:57-!-bishop [~bishop@adsl-65-43-111-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
04:28<engie>Sound - Yay!
04:30-!-Doukegata [foobar@CPE-24-211-15-13.wi.rr.com] has quit ["Jya, ne"]
04:40-!-engie [stephen@public1-macc1-3-cust17.manc.broadband.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
04:46-!-robbie [~rob@rotapile.winshop.com.au] has joined #mythtv
04:46<robbie>moegreen been around ?
04:47-!-Kasperle [~lboehne@p508E8554.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #mythtv
04:47<Kasperle>huhu
04:51<marc>moin
05:24-!-sfr [~sfr@pD9518AFB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #mythtv
05:28-!-marc [~Marc@195.218.18.21] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
05:49-!-engie [stephen@public1-macc1-3-cust17.manc.broadband.ntl.com] has joined #mythtv
05:49<engie>Captain_Murdoch: Thanks for the help you gave me yesterday. Now I'm using ALSA I've got sound working great!
05:50-!-Netslayer [~chris@c-24-126-201-221.we.client2.attbi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
05:53-!-engie [stephen@public1-macc1-3-cust17.manc.broadband.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
05:55-!-FryGuy [~fryguy@c-24-2-50-122.client.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
05:55-!-Gumby [~blowme@209.121.68.111] has left #mythtv ["Leaving"]
06:20-!-engie [stephen@public1-macc1-3-cust17.manc.broadband.ntl.com] has joined #mythtv
06:21<engie>Note to self: Before checking through thousands of lines of config files and log outputs, try turning the volume up...
06:45<engie>Is it possible to get myth to change channel using an external script if the source is a tuner?
06:51<cesman>yes, it should be possible
06:52<cesman>My boxen is off at the moment so I cannot double check
06:53<cesman>but if you run setup, you should see an option there for a external script that will change the channel
06:53<cesman>try that...
06:53<robbie>cept theres no documentation on how to parse a channel to the script
07:20<engie>I've set that script (the script works manually by setting the channel to the first argument) but it doesn't seem to be used
07:20<engie>any ideas how I could debug this
07:20<engie>?
07:21<engie>the docs seem to suggest this is for use where there isn't a tuner involved - the tuner has to be used but its channel not changed
07:36-!-aliz [nobody@213.187.216.84] has joined #mythtv
08:55-!-Drikus [~Drikus@cc45940-a.deven1.ov.home.nl] has joined #mythtv
09:04-!-motardo [ryan@commons10k2.mo24.107.67.137.charter-stl.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
09:10-!-choenig [~choenig@pD9E09536.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #mythtv
09:20-!-sfr_ [~sfr@pD9518494.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #mythtv
09:22-!-sfr [~sfr@pD9518AFB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:46-!-holger [~holger@dialin-212-144-006-038.arcor-ip.net] has joined #mythtv
10:13-!-warlord-afk is now known as warlord
10:30-!-motardo [ryan@commons10k2.mo24.107.67.137.charter-stl.com] has joined #mythtv
11:24-!-warlord is now known as warlord-afk
11:24-!-holger [~holger@dialin-212-144-006-038.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
11:28-!-lmatter [~lmatter@cpe-66-1-150-141.ca.sprintbbd.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
11:29-!-cmorgan [~cmorgan@cpe-68-118-244-105.ma.charter.com] has joined #mythtv
11:33-!-sc00p [~sc00p@adsl-212-84-204.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #mythtv
11:40-!-Kasperle [~lboehne@p508E8554.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Happiness ... is watching Windows reboot"]
11:40-!-Kasperle [~lboehne@p508E8554.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #mythtv
11:43-!-warlord-afk is now known as warlord
11:45-!-marc__ [~Marc@195.218.18.21] has joined #mythtv
11:48-!-warlord is now known as warlord-afk
12:17-!-holger [~holger@dialin-212-144-091-051.arcor-ip.net] has joined #mythtv
12:18<josephk>Chutt...are you sure you can use an earlier ivtv driver with current myth-cvs...I'm finding the opposite...thought that was the point of the emails to the list.
12:22<josephk>s
12:33<Chutt>try jens' latest patch
12:35<josephk>am right now
12:35<josephk>:)
12:35-!-holger [~holger@dialin-212-144-091-051.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Client exiting"]
12:36<josephk>Doukatega is going to come back pissy;D
12:37<Chutt>he wasn't using cvs mythtv, so he has to use an older ivtv cvs snapshot
12:37<josephk>ah ok
12:37<josephk>nevermind then
12:38<josephk>mmm...Reese's for breakfast
12:38<josephk>Reese's and pepsi
12:40<josephk>can't believe how often jens updates
12:41<josephk>may have decoder at beta in a month;)
12:43* kvandivo is going to hold off on jens' latest since there are reports of SMP being even more unstable than before.
12:44<josephk>I think the 11/16 patch is to address smp
12:44<josephk>isn't it?
12:44<cmorgan>it fixes some smp issues
12:44<cmorgan>apparently not the ones i was seeing with the previous version and with ivtv cvs
12:45<Chutt>bah, who needs smp :p
12:45<cmorgan>:-P
12:45<josephk>hehe
12:45<sfr_>pfff
12:47<kvandivo>honestly, I don't need it on one box.. but the other box is a dual 400, and that extra 400 on that box is quite handy
12:48<Chutt>i can imagine that
12:48<kvandivo>on one box it's just giving my hyperthreading, and I am not yet convinced of the extreme additional value of having SMP yet
12:49* kvandivo goes off to work on the Recording Priorities word change.
12:57<term>so apparently the lirc people didn't feel it necessary to have the daemon go, "gee, I tried to open /dev/lirc, and it came back "it's a directory".. maybe I should figure out it's devfs and scan the directory underneath.."
12:57<Chutt>for that, just include what files should be renamed to what, and i'll take care of it
12:58<Chutt>not the text substitutions, of course, but =)
12:58<term>include what files should be renamed..?
12:58<term>oh.
12:58<term>nevermind, I thought you meant lirc
12:59<term>mythtv still wants lircd and lircmd, right?
13:00<term>I can make this work using --device, but then it logs 5-6 entries a second of no key being pressed.
13:04<josephk>hmmm...Reese's and pepsi may have been a bad choice
13:04<kvandivo>will do, chutt
13:05-!-josephk [~josephk@pool-162-83-159-246.ny5030.east.verizon.net] has left #mythtv []
13:05-!-josephk [~josephk@pool-162-83-159-246.ny5030.east.verizon.net] has joined #mythtv
13:12-!-davatar [mmulder@h0050049e9c4e.ne.client2.attbi.com] has joined #mythtv
13:14<davatar>can someone help me get mythbackend to dump core on segfault?
13:14<cmorgan>gdb mythbackend
13:15<cmorgan>assuming you've built mythbackend with symbols run bt after the hang and you should see a bunch of functions
13:15<davatar>yes..
13:15<cmorgan>priv msg me with them if you'd like
13:16<davatar>ok, I'm going to compile the latest cvs first..
13:17<Chutt>multi threaded core files on linux tend not to have anything useful in them.
13:18<Chutt>best way to debug is by running it through gdb, as cmorgan said
13:19<davatar>hmm. I just want to find which functions are segfaulting..
13:19<cmorgan>that will do it
13:39-!-quink [~quink@h-68-167-6-104.LSANCA54.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #mythtv
13:39<quink>anyone else having trouble wiht the sound being lagged and not syncing to whats on tv?
13:43<Chutt>read the 'setting up the mixer' section of the docs.
13:44<quink>ok
13:45-!-Teflon- [~rhooper@CPE00a0cc30463d-CM014110200038.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #mythtv
13:46<josephk>reading is fun and mental
13:47<quink>i don't use alsa. i have emu10k1 drivers
13:48<Chutt>it's not about alsa.
13:48<Chutt>try reading it next time
14:05-!-quink [~quink@h-68-167-6-104.LSANCA54.dynamic.covad.net] has left #mythtv ["Client exiting"]
14:11-!-bishop [~bishop@adsl-65-43-111-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #mythtv
14:16-!-engie [stephen@public1-macc1-3-cust17.manc.broadband.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
14:16<bishop>having error with mythgame. snes9x <romname> works fine from cmd line. but mythgame is passing extra flags that don;t work. where can i change that?
14:19<josephk>Your problem is important to us...we will have an answer to your problem in the order it was received. Thank you for holding.
14:20<bishop>i can't find the options to not make mythgame load snex9x -soundquality 4 -alt etc...
14:20<josephk>hmmm
14:21<josephk>dunno
14:22-!-Kasperle [~lboehne@p508E8554.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Happiness ... is watching Windows reboot"]
14:30-!-Teflon- [~rhooper@CPE00a0cc30463d-CM014110200038.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
14:35<Chutt>i wonder if i can get someone to redo the themes section on the website
14:35<Chutt>be nice to have it support more than one screenshot of the theme
14:35<Chutt>and have it more automatic to make my work easier
14:36<cmorgan>who works on the website?
14:36<josephk>monkeys with typewriters
14:37<josephk>on horseback
14:39<josephk>I kid I kid
14:39<josephk>I joke with you
14:39<Chutt>define 'works'
14:40<Chutt>no one does, really
14:40<josephk>who attacks the website from time to time
14:41<cmorgan>i would imagine it would be easy to solicit screenshots from people here
14:42<Chutt>no, no, that's not the problem
14:42<Chutt>the problem is the code supporting it on the site
14:42<cmorgan>ahh
14:43<josephk>my flash of "Badger Badger Mushroom Snake" goes out of sync after 1 hour and stops audio after 3 ...is this myth's fault?
14:43<Chutt>be nice if it better supported versioning and stuff as well
14:46<bishop>found it. it was in the snessettings table. but it was uneditable because there was no primary key, so i had to add one
15:00-!-D-side [pfft@bgp526783bgs.ebrnsw01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #mythtv
15:12-!-tmk [~no@12-234-205-129.client.attbi.com] has joined #mythtv
15:16<D-side>afternoon.
15:17<sfr_>night
15:18-!-warlord-afk is now known as warlord
15:26<warlord>hmm, i'm trying to find the configuration for PiP location -- how do I reset which quadrant displays PiP?
15:28<sfr_>is it even configurable?
15:34-!-Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: o_cee, poptix, robbie, Justin_, linagee__, Snow-Man, motardo
15:34-!-Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Morph, Octane, paulproteus, cesman, Cloak, lmatter_work, DogBoy_, ahbritto
15:35-!-Netsplit over, joins: sc00p, motardo, choenig, Drikus, aliz, robbie, linagee__, DogBoy_, Katmando, o_cee (+7 more)
15:35-!-Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: kvandivo, bline, De_Mon, yebyen, Omnic, Ripp, elho, Captain_Murdoch, warlord, harba, (+1 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
15:35-!-Netsplit over, joins: ahbritto, paulproteus, Morph, yebyen, elho, bline, farce, Captain_Murdoch, harba, Omnic (+4 more)
15:35-!-Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: GreyFoxx, henry_, dja, bishop, davatar, Magick, sfr_, dopez, term
15:35-!-dilate [~dilate@adsl-68-72-118-37.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #mythtv
15:35-!-Netsplit over, joins: dopez, Magick, GreyFoxx, bishop, davatar, sfr_, dja, henry_, term
15:41-!-dilate [~dilate@adsl-68-72-118-37.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has quit ["BitchX: the un-Cola"]
15:58<Captain_Murdoch>warlord: I don't think it's configurable.
15:58-!-cmorgan [~cmorgan@cpe-68-118-244-105.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
15:59<warlord>Captain_Murdoch: that's what I thought...
16:02<Captain_Murdoch>would be easy to add an option I would think if you want to check into it and submit a patch.
16:03-!-Omnic [~mjb@ds9.ethernal.org] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:03-!-Omnic [~mjb@ds9.ethernal.org] has joined #mythtv
16:03<warlord>my wife is swearing to me that i was able to move the location of the PiP...
16:03<warlord>I dont recall that, tho.
16:05<sfr_>prob. that's her way of asking you to add that feature.
16:05<warlord>LOL.
16:06<Captain_Murdoch>is PIP in the upper left hand corner about 50 pixels down and 50 pixels over?
16:06* Captain_Murdoch has never used it.
16:06<warlord>Captain_Murdoch: yes
16:07<Captain_Murdoch>yeah, it's hardcoded in videooutbase.cpp. from a quick look, I think it centers the picture at the pixel 50 down and 50 over.
16:07<warlord>Hmm, I wonder what we'd have to do to get PiP to work with a pvr-350 output.
16:08<Captain_Murdoch>is the osd in color?
16:08<Captain_Murdoch>if so pip could probably be done, but if Chutt hasn't implemented already it there's probably a good reason why.
16:09<warlord>yes
16:09<warlord>I suspect it's because it would require s/w decode for the embedded picture
16:10<warlord>Hmm, why is hdparm -tT reporting onlky 15MB/sec -- that seems pretty poor for a UDMA(100) HDD, no/
16:10<warlord>?
16:14-!-FryGuy [~fryguy@c-24-2-50-122.client.comcast.net] has joined #mythtv
16:18<Captain_Murdoch>software decode isn't a problem really, I think it's the speed you can update the framebuffer at, but I"m not sure.
16:20-!-hfb [~hfb@adsl-63-201-201-224.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] has joined #mythtv
16:21<warlord>Hmm, I suppose that could be a problem...
16:21<warlord>let me ask tmk ;)
16:23<josephk>I don't think 15MB is too slow
16:23<josephk>My system drive is that fast..although my buffer/recording drive is 25MB/sec
16:24<josephk>I have recorded to the system drive and don't see a problem...at least any different than the other
16:25<warlord>But are you recording 4 MPG streams?
16:25<warlord>(my buffer reads are like 200+MB/sec)
16:26<josephk>4??
16:26<warlord>Yes. 4
16:26<sfr_>4 x pvr cards?
16:26<josephk>have you tried reducing that to 2?:)
16:26<warlord>sfr_: yes
16:27<warlord>josephk: why? i want use all of my cards.
16:27<sfr_>warlord: how many channels?
16:27<warlord>besides, a UDMA(100) drive should be able to do more than 15MB/s
16:27-!-cmorgan [~cmorgan@cpe-68-118-244-105.ma.charter.com] has joined #mythtv
16:27<warlord>sfr_: what do you mean? I've got cable and can tune in analog to (almost) all channels from 2 to 97
16:27<josephk>warlord...do you do anything for the purposes of testing hypotheses or what?:D
16:28<warlord>josephk: Well, it was always working fine with 3 tuners. it's the fourth that seems to have started the instabilities.
16:28<sfr_>warlord: how many hours does your day have? wonder when you're watching all the recordings. ;)
16:28<warlord>sfr_: during the time when there is CRAP on TV
16:29<warlord>I dont use all four encoders all the time. Indeed, the 4th is only used once a week.
16:29<warlord>But I want it to _work_
16:29<davatar>these are pvr's? in the same machine?
16:29<warlord>davatar: yes
16:29-!-Teflon- [~rhooper@CPE00a0cc30463d-CM014110200038.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #mythtv
16:30<warlord>3 pvr-250s and 1 pvr-350
16:30-!-cmorgan is now known as cmorgan_afk
16:30<Captain_Murdoch>I have 3 M179 cards (Aver's version of the 250) in an old P2-400 and have had all three recording at the same time before
16:30<josephk>bitbytebit uses 4 cards
16:31<warlord>Captain_Murdoch: which is why I'm questioning my HDD I/O b/w, not the # of PVR cards I'm using.
16:31<davatar>it may not be disk issues, but then again 15mb/s read, write speed is probably half that, factor in fragmentation.
16:31<josephk>he said he had trouble with recent drivers
16:33<Captain_Murdoch>warlord: yeah, I know, my message was directed at the people who were asking about the # of cards.
16:33<warlord>True, i have had problems with recent drivers. I was considering dropping today's tarball C and seeing if that helps.
16:33<warlord>Captain_Murdoch: ok. :)
16:39-!-bishop [~bishop@adsl-65-43-111-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:46-!-elho [elho@psycho.elho.net] has left #mythtv []
16:46<Captain_Murdoch>warlord, you running current CVS of Myth?
16:47<warlord>Captain_Murdoch: well, current CVS as of like yesterday I think.
16:47<warlord>I'm about 27 or 28 hours old.
16:48<warlord>Should I pull down the changes from yesterday and today?
16:49<Captain_Murdoch>nah, just asking because I about have that movable PIP window change ready. compiling to test now. gives 4 options, upper left, upper right, lower left, lower right.
16:50<warlord>Cool...
16:50<warlord>How hard do you think it would be to put the PiP window into the OSD on a -350? ;)
16:51<Captain_Murdoch>dunno, haven't even looked at how the osd is done on the 350 cards. look in videoout_ivtv.cpp I think.
16:51<warlord>Is the PiP screen treated differently than the "main" video out?
16:52<Captain_Murdoch>when using software decoding, pip is decoded separately and overlayed on the main video in videooutbase.cpp
16:53<warlord>Ahh, Cool.. So perhaps I can do something similar for the 350. I'll take a look at some point. first I need to get the -350 working with a reasonably stable base system before I go hack on it ..
16:56-!-brunes [~jason@CPE0004e23b2195-CM00e06f152a84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #mythtv
16:56<brunes>can anyone else not connect to zap2it.com ?
16:58<henry_>I'm running mythtv and ivtv from cvs (this morning) on a pvr-350. Are there any recommendations for stablizing it (freezes after channel changes). I know this is an ivtv issue. Are there settings that can help? Is there a particular cvs date that I should use?
16:58<Captain_Murdoch>brunes: came up fine here
16:58<brunes>must be my isp
16:59<warlord>henry_: grab the ivtv driver from the other site listed on ivtv's home page.
17:05-!-bishop [~bishop@adsl-65-43-111-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #mythtv
17:09<henry_>warlord: I'm sorry, english really is my first language. Does the paragraph on the ivtv website mean I should grab the diff from axboe/ivtv?
17:09<warlord>henry_: yes.
17:10<henry_>thanks
17:10<warlord>you're welcome.
17:10<warlord>the 'C' driver seems to be working pretty well, so far.
17:12<henry_>Its just that the following line (on the web page) says "His patches as of today are merged into ivtv CVS", so I was a little confused.
17:13<henry_>I should have realized that today meant 10-31 duh.
17:17<warlord>Yea
17:17<brunes>what is this ivtv ?
17:17<henry_>So take the 10-31 version and apply the 031116C diff?
17:18<warlord>henry_: or just download the full tarball.
17:19<warlord>brunes: it's the driver for the Hauppauge PVR-250/350 cards
17:19<henry_>ivtv -> driver for hauppauge pvr-250/350
17:20<henry_>thanks warlord.
17:20<brunes>ah
17:20<brunes>id like one of those babys. how much do they run anyways?
17:21<brunes>I have been looking at upgrading my cpu and getting another tuner.. but it' dprobably be better to just get a PVR card to do the hardware encoding, right?
17:22<warlord>brunes: the -250 is about $130, the -350 is about $190
17:24<brunes>what is the difference between them
17:24-!-jmw [~jmw@cpe-024-163-070-005.nc.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
17:24<warlord>-350 also includes an mpg DECODER with tv-out
17:25<brunes>can you use the decoder w/o the tv out function?
17:25<jmw>hi, i have a problem where my backend crashes when i start frontend and watch tv
17:25<jmw>if i run frontend on another box, it works fine.
17:25<warlord>brunes: no
17:26<brunes>oh well that kinda blows :/
17:26<jmw>error reading from: /dev/video0 is all i get.
17:26<brunes>how can you use two in one box then?
17:27<warlord>brunes: you have two TVs connected to one box?
17:28<warlord>brunes: the mpeg ENCODER (tv-in) is separable from the mpeg DECODER (tv-out)
17:28<brunes>no., but like, I have two tuners (or that was the plan)
17:28<brunes>hrmm
17:28<brunes> does mythtv still do the overlays on the output?
17:30<jmw>does anyone know if perhaps an irq conflict would prevent backend and frontend from playing well together on the same box? (i can play mpg with a regular player and record at the same time, but can't run the frontend and backend together)
17:30<jmw>using pvr250 and an nvidia card on the same interrupt
17:30<warlord>jmw: what kind of hardware (cpu/memory/etc.)?
17:31<jmw>warlord: dell 420, 866 mhz pIII, 1.5 gig memory
17:33<jmw>warlord: i can run mplayer to play the video i cat from /dev/video0, but i can't watch it on frontend with out crashing backend.
17:33<warlord>jmw: that might not be a fast enough processor..
17:34<warlord>how does the backend crash?:
17:34<warlord>run it under gdb? get a backtrace?
17:34<warlord>(see the FAQ for how to do that)
17:35<jmw>ok. i'll try to get a backtrace
17:35<josephk>11/16 appears to be much better than 11-08
17:38<warlord>josephk: Yea.. I've got 11/16C
17:39<brunes>namely, I dont really care about hardware decoding so much as hardware encoding anyways
17:40<warlord>brunes: then you dont need the -350
17:40<brunes>wonder if i shoul dget one fo those 250s
17:40<jmw>warlord: actually, backend doesn't segfault, i just get "unable to capture video for 15 seconds, game over man"
17:40* brunes scours ebay
17:40<warlord>jmw: that's probably the ivtv driver.. what version are you using?
17:40<jmw>warlord: should i just capture the gdb output around the time that message comes out?
17:40<brunes>hrm 99 CDN
17:40<brunes>not bad
17:40<warlord>jmw: nope.
17:41<brunes>Note: The Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-250 TV Tuner Card must be placed in the middle PCI slot on the motherboard.
17:41<brunes>?
17:41<brunes>whats with that?
17:41<warlord>I dont know
17:41<warlord>I've got 3 250s and a 350...
17:41<warlord>they work fine next to each other
17:41<jmw>warlord: my ivtv is an rpm: ivtv-0.12-cvs20031004_16.rh9.at
17:41<brunes>heh
17:41<warlord>just make sure they are in bus-mastering slots.
17:42<brunes>4 tuners, holy crap you must watch a lotta tv to need that :P
17:42<warlord>jmw: I have no clue what driver that is, but I suspect it's a broken driver.
17:42<jmw>ok. i'll try building a new one
17:42<warlord>brunes: not really -- just a few shows which happen to be broadcast at the same time
17:43-!-Kasperle [~lboehne@p508E8554.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #mythtv
17:43<Kasperle>huhu
17:43<Captain_Murdoch>brunes, I think that's because the motherboard they are talking about only has one busmastering slot
17:51-!-holger [~holger@dialin-145-254-068-252.arcor-ip.net] has joined #mythtv
18:05-!-billytwowilly [~chris@h24-66-18-138.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #mythtv
18:07-!-Omnic [~mjb@ds9.ethernal.org] has quit ["Changing server"]
18:10-!-marc__ [~Marc@195.218.18.21] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:17-!-choenig [~choenig@pD9E09536.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:36-!-billytwowilly [~chris@h24-66-18-138.ed.shawcable.net] has quit ["Client exiting"]
18:49-!-Drikus [~Drikus@cc45940-a.deven1.ov.home.nl] has quit ["toedeledoki"]
18:55-!-holger [~holger@dialin-145-254-068-252.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Client exiting"]
19:07<D-side>warlord: where did you get the 350s anyway? i'm looking for one
19:14-!-tmk [~no@12-234-205-129.client.attbi.com] has quit []
19:23<warlord>D-side: amazon.com
19:23<D-side>wellthen.
19:24-!-Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: cmorgan_afk, Chiphead
19:25-!-Netsplit over, joins: cmorgan_afk, Chiphead
19:35-!-burden [burden@24-116-46-86.cpe.cableone.net] has quit ["ircII EPIC4-1.1.11 -- Are we there yet?"]
19:38-!-Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: cmorgan_afk, Chiphead
19:39-!-Netsplit over, joins: cmorgan_afk, Chiphead
19:48-!-Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: kvandivo, Katmando, DogBoy_, Octane, Kasperle, Morph, bline, De_Mon, o_cee, yebyen, (+20 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
19:49-!-Netsplit over, joins: warlord, kvandivo, bishop, sc00p, Katmando, Ripp, De_Mon
19:49-!-burden [burden@edge.ipv6.avioc.org] has joined #mythtv
19:49-!-Netsplit over, joins: Kasperle, linagee__, o_cee, poptix, robbie, Cloak, lmatter_work, ahbritto, harba, Captain_Murdoch (+13 more)
19:50-!-jmw [~jmw@cpe-024-163-070-005.nc.rr.com] has quit ["Client Exiting"]
19:56-!-Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: o_cee, linagee__
19:58-!-Netsplit over, joins: linagee__, o_cee
20:06-!-Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: cmorgan_afk, Chiphead
20:07-!-sfr_ [~sfr@pD9518494.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Client exiting"]
20:07-!-Netsplit over, joins: cmorgan_afk, Chiphead
20:10-!-Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: cmorgan_afk, Chiphead
20:10-!-cmorgan [~cmorgan@cpe-68-118-244-105.ma.charter.com] has joined #mythtv
20:10-!-Netsplit over, joins: Chiphead
20:20-!-billytwowilly [~chris@h24-66-18-138.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #mythtv
20:23-!-Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Morph, paulproteus, Octane, cesman, Cloak, Kasperle, lmatter_work, motardo, ahbritto, DogBoy_
20:23-!-Netsplit over, joins: Kasperle, ahbritto, lmatter_work, Cloak, motardo, DogBoy_, Morph, paulproteus, Octane, cesman
20:25-!-Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: DogBoy_, Octane, Kasperle, Morph, bline, o_cee, yebyen, Cloak, billytwowilly, aliz, (+14 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
20:25-!-hfb [~hfb@adsl-63-201-201-224.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] has quit ["Client exiting"]
20:25-!-Netsplit over, joins: Kasperle, ahbritto, lmatter_work, Cloak, robbie, Justin_, Snow-Man, poptix, motardo, DogBoy_ (+4 more)
20:25-!-Netsplit over, joins: burden, aliz, yebyen
20:26-!-Netsplit over, joins: o_cee, linagee__, harba, Captain_Murdoch, bline, billytwowilly, farce
20:27-!-billytwowilly [~chris@h24-66-18-138.ed.shawcable.net] has quit ["Client exiting"]
20:54-!-_rkulagow [~rkulagow@12-206-148-147.client.attbi.com] has left #mythtv []
21:05-!-harba [~tdsch@ip68-99-206-82.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:13<josephk>dum dum dittaaaaay
21:13-!-D-side [pfft@bgp526783bgs.ebrnsw01.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["bbl"]
21:15-!-Viddy [~lsk@visp194-179.visp.co.nz] has joined #mythtv
21:15-!-harba [~tdsch@ip68-99-206-82.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #mythtv
21:16<kvandivo>dittaaaaaaay dum dittaaaay do
21:17<josephk>kvandivo: did you try 11/16 just to check?
21:18<kvandivo>yes. and it works
21:18<kvandivo>busy working on the rank->recording priorities, but i took time out to check that
21:19<kvandivo>11/16 with the 179 patch seems to work fine, though
21:21<josephk>much more consistant than previous drivers...for the 350 that is...for me I should also say:)
21:22-!-rkulagow [~rkulagow@12-206-148-147.client.attbi.com] has joined #mythtv
21:29-!-bishop [~bishop@adsl-65-43-111-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has quit []
21:34-!-Katmando [~tjones@12-241-169-173.client.attbi.com] has quit [Operation timed out]
21:35<warlord>'179 patch'?
21:35<warlord>is that 11/16C?
21:37<kvandivo>yes, and yes
21:37<warlord>What's the "179 patch"?
21:37<kvandivo>for the avermedia m179 card
21:38<warlord>Oh.
21:39<josephk>much cheaper card isn't it?...same connexant chip?
21:40<kvandivo>chutt, you around?
21:40<kvandivo>same video as the 250, different audio (hence the patch from the Captain)
21:40-!-rizzi [~root@roc-24-93-16-37.rochester.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
21:41<warlord>ok
21:42<Captain_Murdoch>I'm recording 2 shows right now using the 031116c driver with M179 patch. recorded about 6 earlier today using it as well. just stopped in to check on them, bbl.
21:43-!-Kasperle [~lboehne@p508E8554.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Happiness ... is watching Windows reboot"]
21:48<josephk>I've been using B...have to try C
21:49<warlord>C fixes a locking/race condition.
21:51<brunes>Who is the maintainer of mythweb?
21:51<brunes>I have a small patch for him
21:52<brunes>ill just mail the list I guess
22:03<kvandivo>mail patches to dev. they'll end up in the correct place
22:11<brunes>done
22:16<kvandivo>good deal. best to not attempt to send to an individual dev unless they have explicitly asked for it.. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#uselists
22:19<brunes>well different projects have different policies
22:22-!-Katmando [~tjones@12-241-169-173.client.attbi.com] has joined #mythtv
22:25-!-Katmando [~tjones@12-241-169-173.client.attbi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:26-!-Katmando [~tjones@12-241-169-173.client.attbi.com] has joined #mythtv
22:44-!-flyer [sdk@bambi.visi.com] has joined #mythtv
23:01<warlord>Hmm, why is myth recording Taken twice?
23:01<warlord>It recorded it at 9, and now it's trying to record the 11pm show too..
23:09<cmorgan>heh
23:09<kvandivo>do you not like it that well?
23:09<warlord>:-P
23:10<warlord>Not particularly, no.
23:10<cmorgan>wait until myth starts learning what you like
23:10<warlord>And my backend just crashed
23:10<cmorgan>i read a story about tivo getting confused and recording all kinds of shows, the guy was complaining that it thought he was gay, it was recording lifetime specials and decorating shows
23:10<warlord>(no core dump, as far as I can tell)
23:10<warlord>Yea, common urban legend (even if it may be true)
23:11<kvandivo>http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/living/4662397.htm
23:12<cmorgan>yeah, thats the story ;-)
23:12<cmorgan>even if it isn't true its still pretty funny
23:13<warlord>yea.
23:15<warlord>I wish the backend had dropped a corefile...
23:17<warlord>Grf.. redhat's 'daemon' function sets the coredump limit to 0 -- no wonder it's not dumping core!
23:19<warlord>Ok, well, next time it's restarted it'll be fixed.
23:25<kvandivo>whew.. I can go back to work now, then.
23:26<warlord>well, the backend may still crash -- i haven't fixed THAT, yet.
23:26-!-brunes [~jason@CPE0004e23b2195-CM00e06f152a84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Client Exiting"]
23:26<warlord>In fact, I got:
23:26<warlord>2003-11-16 21:10:35 Changing from None to WatchingLiveTV
23:26<warlord>ERROR: file I/O problem in 'safe_read()'
23:26<warlord>: Invalid argument
23:26<warlord>ERROR: file I/O problem in 'safe_read()'
23:26<warlord>: Invalid argument
23:26<warlord>ERROR: file I/O problem in 'safe_read()'
23:26<warlord>: Invalid argument
23:26<warlord>ERROR: file I/O problem in 'safe_read()'
23:26<warlord>: Bad address
23:26<warlord>ERROR: file I/O problem in 'safe_read()'
23:26<warlord>: Bad address
23:26<warlord>ERROR: file I/O problem in 'safe_read()'
23:26<warlord>: Bad address
23:26<warlord>(before it crashed)
23:27<josephk>can you access that video source after that?
23:28<kvandivo>you checked the obvious things? df -k, kernel logs for read errors on the disk, etc?
23:28<josephk>I would get that when my vidsource went kerplunk
23:29<warlord>plenty of disk space
23:29<warlord>nothing in the kernel logs.
23:30<warlord>The only thing close is
23:30<warlord>Nov 16 22:56:29 mythtv kernel: ivtv: timed out waiting for firmware
23:30<warlord>(which is about when the backend died)
23:30<warlord>but there were no other ivtv messages
23:30<josephk>do you know which card it was using?
23:31<warlord>and in fact those came AFTER I restarted the backend
23:31<warlord>It was using cards 1 and 2 (both pvr-250s)
23:31<warlord>(or 0 and 1, depending how you count)
23:31<josephk>if those came after it definitely sounds like one of them is not sending data
23:31<josephk>can you cat them both?
23:33<warlord>No need -- myth is running just fine right now.. recording off #1 and livetv off #2
23:33<warlord>the backend died. I restarted it.. restarted the frontend, and it's happy again.
23:34<josephk>ok...I noticed not too long ago my cards would stop sending data even after I shutdown the backend
23:34<josephk>hasn't happened with more recent drivers
23:35<warlord>what version of the ivtv driver?
23:35<warlord>I'm running 11/16C
23:35<josephk>I believe it was all hallows eve
23:35<josephk>hehe
23:36<warlord>I'm just wondering why the backend crashed. I didn't get a core dump due to redhat's scripts, so I dont know. I'll have to wait until I can restart the backend another time.
23:36<warlord>(it's still running with cordumpsize limited to 0
23:37<cmorgan>can't change the coredump size on the fly?
23:37<josephk>what drive is this that you only get 15MB on an udma 100 interface?
23:37<warlord>cmorgan: i have no idea..
23:38-!-bbeattie [~mythtv@cpe-66-1-180-69.ut.sprintbbd.net] has joined #mythtv
23:38<warlord>josephk: uh, i think it's a maxtor. /dev/hda (my one and only drive)
23:38<josephk>size?
23:39<warlord>200gb
23:39<cmorgan>that seems a bit low by todays standards
23:39<josephk>I guess it's 5400?
23:39<kvandivo>depends on the speed of the machine, too.. i went from 40 megs down to about 15 when i went from a 2.4 to a 400
23:39<warlord>and my last test (after a reboot) I got 30MB/sec
23:39<warlord>I thought it was 7200
23:39<bbeattie>Could some offer some ideas on why when building a new myth server and I've loaded up a database from another system, everything is there except song ratings in mythmusic are not there? Meaning I'm unable to change song ratings and I have no rating at all (No stars, on any song, and I can't "up a rating" that I can see that occurs.
23:39<cmorgan>should be around the 30's
23:39<josephk>yeah...my 8GB seagate does 15
23:39<josephk>sounds right
23:39<warlord>I've got a 2600+ athlon xp
23:40<warlord>it should be getting better performance, but it's possible I dont have the RH kernel configured properly.
23:40<cmorgan>the latest scsi drives are up around 70-80mb/s
23:41<warlord>80mb/s is 10MB/s, which is less than I'm seeing
23:41<warlord>(or do you mean 80MB/s?)
23:41<cmorgan>my bad, i meant 80MB/s
23:41<warlord>Ah.
23:41<warlord>Well, as I said, I did see 30MB/s earlier.
23:42<cmorgan>ide disks aren't that far behind
23:42<kvandivo>when I get to the point of needing 70 streams of tv at once, i'll consider getting one of those
23:42<kvandivo>;-P
23:42<cmorgan>even though they often spin slower they have high data densities
23:42<warlord>right now I get 206 MB/s on buffer-cache reads, and 25MB/s on buffered disk reads.
23:42<warlord>But it's also got two MPG streams going right now.
23:43<cmorgan>yeah, ide drives are great for sequential workloads, not so hot for random ;-)
23:43<mirk>exit
23:43-!-mirk [~mirk@del224095.columbus.rr.com] has quit ["leaving"]
23:43<warlord>but myth is pretty sequential
23:43<cmorgan>yep
23:44<cmorgan>thats why they recommend you get 5400 rpm drives for pvr stuff, keeps the temperature down and less noise
23:46<warlord>hda: 390721968 sectors (200050 MB) w/8192KiB Cache, CHS=24321/255/63, UDMA(100)
23:46<cmorgan>have to love a drive that reports 255 heads ;-)
23:46<warlord>sorry, it's a western digital, not a maxtor
23:47<warlord> Model=WDC WD2000JB-32EVA0, FwRev=15.05R15, SerialNo=WD-WMAEH1218086
23:47<warlord> Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw>15uSec SpinMotCtl Fixed DTR>5Mbs FmtGapReq }
23:47<warlord> RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=57600, SectSize=600, ECCbytes=74
23:47<warlord> BuffType=DualPortCache, BuffSize=8192kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=16
23:47<warlord> CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=268435455
23:47<warlord> IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
23:47<kvandivo>potay-toe, pataah-toe
23:48* kvandivo is seriously considering a beefier backend. Waiting an hour for myth to compile for testing a code change is just too much.
23:48<josephk>go for it!
23:49<josephk>:D
23:49<warlord>I should probably pull down current CVS to grab the fixes from yesterday afternoon and today..
---Logclosed Mon Nov 17 00:00:43 2003