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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-11-17

---Logopened Mon Nov 17 00:00:43 2003
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00:33<davatar>http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/fusion2.asp doesn't this use the same bt chip as pchdtv?
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01:11<warlord>ok, re-running with current CVS and coredumps unlimited.
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01:21<michal_>does anyone here own a dxr3 ?
01:21<michal_>well more to the point do they use it with 2.6.0
01:25-!-A_Young [~knoppix@adsl-18-27.swiftdsl.com.au] has joined #mythtv
01:25<A_Young>do i still need mplayer if i install mythtv?
01:25<A_Young>if so, is there a unified frontend :)
01:29<cesman>A_Young:Do you want to play Divx, xvid or other video formats? If so, install mplayer and MythVideo.
01:30<A_Young>yep, ok ta
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01:46<A_Young>does mythtv need v4l2? or only for certain hw?
01:46<A_Young>i just finished recompiling a kernel without it ;P
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01:56<A_Young>looks like maybe i'd only need v4l2 if i want a remote control ...
01:56<cesman>no
01:56<cesman>LIRC is for the remote control
01:57<cesman>V4L2 is need if you want to use a PVR-x50
01:57<cesman>compile the ivtv drivers...
01:58<A_Young>PVR-x50 is common/popular?
01:58<A_Young>and what is ivtv?
01:59<cesman>ivtv.sf.net
02:00<A_Young>ok, well anyway in the system i'm building i guess it will be a while before i get to mythtv stage .. but i want to make sure i get the kernel ~ right
02:00<A_Young>since kernel is step 0 and mythtv is step 100
02:01<A_Young>don't want to have to go back to the start when i reach 99 :)
02:01<cesman>May I suggest taking a look at KnoppMyth?
02:01<A_Young>although it's inevitable ;)
02:01<A_Young>yes, i may look .. but there is so much stuff to look at, if i look at everything, i get nothing done
02:02<linagee__>weird. mythtv seems to chew on a DVD mpeg2 stream a lot slower than a PS mpeg2 stream
02:02<cesman>KnoppMyth is my disto of Linux, you can install Linux and Myth about 10 minutes depending on your hardware
02:02<cesman>http://mysettopbox.tv
02:02<A_Young> :) i found the homepage
02:03<A_Young>hust.la/KnoppMyth heh heh
02:03<A_Young>is the iso big?
02:03<cesman>that isn't the homepage but a mirror
02:03<cesman>the iso is over 400 megs
02:04<linagee__>cesman: so it's pretty small? ;)
02:04<A_Young>how come it says it must be installed to hdd? what is the limiting factor there?
02:05<cesman>huh?
02:05<A_Young>Will it ever run completely from the CD?
02:05<A_Young> * Maybe.
02:05<cesman>it must be installed to a hard disk drive
02:06<A_Young>i am curious about why?
02:07<A_Young>is it for speed?
02:08<cesman>how else do you intend on running a pvr?
02:08<cesman>did you not plan to install Linux on a hard drive?
02:08<A_Young>basically
02:08<cesman>ok....
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02:08<A_Young>i have linux installed now .. but i'm trying to make a nice bootcd
02:09<A_Young>i dunno if i would put mythtv on it or not yet .. since i just found mythtv today
02:09<cesman>to me, it make no sense to run a pvr completely off the cd
02:09<A_Young>ok, that's what i thought
02:09<cesman>you can use the cd as a frontend
02:10<A_Young>yeah, i guess it makes sense that way, since you prolly want to write to the hdd anyway, may as well put some useful stuff there and make it go faster
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02:11<mirk>Chutt: you around?
02:12<A_Young>cesman, is ivtv instead of v4l2? for PVR-x50
02:12<cesman>no, ivtv is dependant on v4l2
02:13<cesman>ivtv is the driver to use the PVR-x50 with Linux
02:14<A_Young>ok .. :)
02:14<A_Young>and those drivers can be compiled as modules after compiling the kernel? or the kernel needs to be patched and recompiled?
02:15<cesman>you can patch the kernel w/ v4l2 of follow the directions in the ivtv faq
02:16<A_Young>ta ..
02:16<cesman>you also need Hauppuage windows drivers
02:16<A_Young>erg
02:16<cesman>the firmware must be extracted from the drivers
02:16<A_Young>heh
02:17<A_Young>is that a licensing issue for distribution of your CD?
02:17<cesman>no, I got permission from Hauppauge to include the windows drivers
02:19<A_Young>cool :)
02:19<A_Young>Hauppauge++
02:19<A_Young>ok, well since i don't have the card, i will leave it for v1.0
02:22<cesman>are you looking to make your own cd w/ myth?
02:31<Chutt>ivtv isn't dependent on v4l2.
02:35<A_Young>cesman - well yes, but myth is more of an afterthought or an ambition
02:36<A_Young>it's not among the reasons i am making the cd, but i aim to have it as an option eventually
02:36<A_Young>assuming i ever finish
02:38<mirk>Chutt: I mentioned the backend dying while using multiple tuner cards last night...well it looks like it's a problem with the version of lame in Axel's rpms.
02:39<mirk>Using the lame rpm from freshrpms fixes it.
02:40<mirk>Is there anything I can do to help debug further?
02:40<Chutt>not much i can do if it's dying in lame
02:42<mirk>nope. It looks like Axel's rpm is built from a cvs snapshot. By the way, thanks for such a cool program. I've been using it solid since .7 and my wife and I don't know how we ever did without. ;-)
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03:04<linagee_>why does mythtv not like my DVD mpeg2 streams?
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12:29* KikoV is away: I'm busy
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12:41<vinson>can anyone tell me how to elminate the 2 second lag for sound on mythtv?
12:43<Chutt>read the section of the docs on how to set up your mixer properly?
12:43<vinson>ok
12:43<vinson>i'll check that out
12:45<vinson>sweet
12:45<vinson>much better
12:45<vinson>thanks Chutt
12:45<vinson>should have looked there first
12:45<vinson>;)
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12:50<warlord>Chutt: Have you ever seen a bug where the avcodeccontext's codec paramter get's NULLed out?
12:50<warlord>I'm seeing a SEGV in avcodec_decode_video where avctx->codec is NULL
12:52<Chutt>nope
12:53<warlord>Hmm, well, let me send in the backtrace.
12:54<Chutt>didn't you already do that?
12:54<warlord>It looks like the video file is somewhat damaged or something.
12:54<Chutt>the backtrace isn't going to help figure out why it's getting nulled out.
12:54<warlord>Did I?
12:54<warlord>Hmm..
12:54<warlord>I wonder if I can set a gdb watch on the object?
13:04<warlord>Hmm, chutt -- can you think of a good reason the AVContext would change during play of a recorded show?
13:05<Chutt>nope
13:06<warlord>well, apparantly that's why it's dying -- avcodec_decode_video is being called with a different context.
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13:11<warlord>Ooh, this is ... Interesting..
13:12<warlord>It's reading a packet for stream_index == 2! 0 is MPEG2VIDEO, 1 is MP2AUDIO.. What's stream index 2? There doesn't appear to be a codec associated with it, which is why I'm getting an error.
13:13<Chutt>heh
13:13<warlord>???
13:14<warlord>well, ic->nb_streams is 3..
13:15<warlord>ic->streams[2]->codec reports itself as :
13:15<warlord> codec_name = '\0' <repeats 31 times>, codec_type = CODEC_TYPE_VIDEO,
13:15<warlord> codec_id = CODEC_ID_MPEG1VIDEO, codec_tag = 0, workaround_bugs = 1,
13:19<warlord>Do you have further suggestions?
13:21<Chutt>other than simply adding a check for it somewhere, no
13:23<warlord>ok...
13:24<warlord>let me play around there.
13:29-!-engie [~stephen@public1-macc1-3-cust17.manc.broadband.ntl.com] has joined #mythtv
13:30<engie>Hi. Does anyone know if the debian source installs from http://dijkstra.csh.rit.edu/~mdz/debian/dists/woody/mythtv/ work? I get an install error of install: cannot create regular file `debian/tmp/usr/bin/mythtv-setup': No such file or directory
13:43<henry_>Any EE's around?
13:44<warlord>Chutt: patch sent to the list.
13:44<Chutt>thanks
13:44<sfr>henry_: why?
13:45<henry_>I know its off topic, but my htpc/mythtv box has a ground problem wrt my other equip that I'm at a loss to solve.
13:45<henry_>60 hz hum.
13:46<henry_>I think my htpc causes the problme because its the only grounded (3 pronged) piece of equip.
13:47<Chutt>ground your cable line
13:47<henry_>Everything else is polarized and everything has worked fine for years.
13:48<henry_>I disconnected everything (including cable) except my tv (and rca video to the integrated amp) and the video cable from the htpc (to the ia).
13:48<henry_>With just the ia, tv and htpc I get the hum. I think the tv is seeking ground and finding it thru the htpc video cable.
13:49<henry_>The pc is turned off. It only has to be plugged in.
13:49-!-jake [~bmatheny@12-222-109-233.client.insightBB.com] has joined #mythtv
13:50<henry_>I've swapped power supplies in the htpc (to no avail). Now I'm going to try a different tv.
13:51<jake>I did a fresh install of mythtv 0.12 and of mythmusic 0.12. When I try to go to 'Music Settings' under 'Setup', mythfrontend segfaults
13:51<jake>anyone have any ideas?
13:51<Chutt>jake, without a backtrace, you're just wasting people's time.
13:52<jake>not if it's something common. if it's not I'll get a backtrace.
13:52<Chutt>without a backtrace, you're wasting people's time.
13:52<Chutt>period.
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13:56<Kasperle>huhu
13:56<sfr>Kasperle: do you have anything else to contribute?
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13:57<Kasperle>sfr: if you do not want to be greeted when i join the channel, fine, just tell me and i'm out
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14:01<warlord>Chutt: FYI, ignore that last patch -- it's not complete.. I'll send another one out sooon.
14:03<Chutt>sure, i have no problems ignoring patches =)
14:06<warlord>LOL
14:08<sfr>warlord: how did those packets get corrupted?
14:08<warlord>ok, new one sent.
14:08<warlord>sfr: no clue. I suspect "buggy ivtv driver"
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14:30* kvandivo yawns softly.
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14:56<kvandivo>a few more times of that and i'll start calling you Marc.
14:56* kvandivo snickers softly.
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14:56<Chutt>sorry, had to reboot a couple times
14:56<Chutt>i'll try not to do that in the future :p
14:57<kvandivo>i know what we'll do.. we'll make Marc a verb..
14:57<kvandivo>then we can say things like 'Chutt is pulling a marc.'
14:57<kvandivo>err.. i guess that's not a verb..
14:57<kvandivo>anyway, you know what i mean
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14:58<warlord>Chutt: FYI, second patch i sent seems to work fine for me.
14:58<kvandivo>you sent the patch before verifying that? ;)
15:00<warlord>No, but chutt wasn't around to see my message.
15:00<warlord>The first patch did uncover another problem which I only detected after I sent it... Which is why there was a second patch.
15:00<engie>HI. Do you know if there are any sound issues with mythmusic?
15:03<jake>backtrace from running mythmusic setup:
15:03<jake>#0 0x40815373 in QString::deref() () from /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3
15:04<jake>#1 0x4081546c in QString::operator=(QString const&) () from /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3
15:04<jake>that's it
15:04<warlord>jake: read the FAQ on how to get a real backtrace
15:04<warlord>jake: also, you probably want to rebuild myth and change settings.pro to set debug
15:05<jake>I did
15:05<jake>that's what the faq said to do :-)
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15:32<henry_>You around Chutt?
15:34<henry_>Chutt: Thanx. There was still one more cable connection out of the splitter that I had forgotten about. I think that was it.
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15:59<engie>Can you tell Mythmusic sounds like it's being sent through most of the worlds phone network. Anyone any ideas?
16:04<engie>whoops, alsamixer settings a bit high.
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16:58<kvandivo>hey chutt, you see my question from last night?
16:58<Chutt>what was that?
16:58<kvandivo>chutt, if you show up tonight.. i was just curious what the policy was on _changing_ text in the theme ui files wrt foreign language translations. if i change 'Rank' to 'Priority', should I delete the alt lang tags since they are no longer accurate?
16:59<Chutt>i really need to come up with a better way to do the translations in themes
16:59<Chutt>but, yeah, i'd say delete it
16:59<kvandivo>ya.. it's not real clean.. but i haven't had a suggestion of a better way, so i've kept my mouth shut. :)
17:00<kvandivo>i think i've got the changes made.. still in the testing phase.. and don't have icons to go with the round bubbles on the themes for some reason
17:00<kvandivo>(the system status bubble doesn't have an icon either)
17:00<warlord>so, let's see how well 17B works..
17:03<Chutt>if anyone can come up with a better way to do text in themes, i'm all for it
17:04<kvandivo>do i need to run the lupdate and lrelease in i18n before submitting the patch?
17:04<Chutt>i can do it
17:05<Chutt>keeps the patch smaller
17:05* kvandivo nods solemnly.
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17:08<warlord>Hmm, why is myth ignoring my 4th encoder?
17:08<kvandivo>i'll bet its that 'if (user == "warlord" and encoderNumber > 3)' line..
17:09* kvandivo thinks he must have lapsed into partial-cobol there for a second.
17:09<warlord>LOL
17:10<warlord>It's weird.. I do see use of encoder 4 scheduled for wednesday, but I just tried to set up 4 programs to record in 20 minutes and it wont use it!
17:10* warlord is confused..
17:12<engie>Hi. Did the patch from Andy Davidoff on Mar 11 to let television tuner's use an external channel changer get included?
17:12<engie>or anything similiar
17:12<Chutt>um
17:12<Chutt>march 11th?
17:12<sfr>Mar 11? i don't thing so
17:12<engie>apparantly so
17:12<kvandivo>now _thats_ a blast from the past
17:12<engie>hehe
17:13<Chutt>engie, that stuff's been in forever.
17:13<Chutt>read the docs
17:13<engie>It doesn't seem to be working
17:14<Chutt>works perfectly fine
17:14<engie>that's why I ask - the docs give the impression it's only for composite, imhp
17:14<engie>imho!
17:15<Chutt>using the tuner input for the output of a cable or satellite box is really, really stupid, anyway
17:15<engie>indeed
17:15<engie>however, composite is not playing ball
17:16<engie>even with a super pricy cable, I think my capture card's broken
17:16<engie>either way, the picture through aerial's OK
17:17<engie>Is there a way of using an external channel changing command with a tuner input?
17:18<Chutt>yes
17:18<Chutt>all you have to do is set it in the setup program
17:18<engie>right
17:18<Chutt>and have it set to tune to one specific channel, also in the setup program.
17:18<engie>that's not working. I assume it just passes the channel as the first argument
17:19<warlord>wow, my myth box just crashed hard!
17:19<warlord>i wasn't even doing anything...
17:19<Chutt>as the only argument
17:19<engie>right
17:19<sfr>warlord: you want us to believe that?
17:20<warlord>believe or not..
17:21<warlord>it just crashed again -- this time as I entered livety.
17:21<warlord>er, livetv
17:26<engie>An external command is set, as is a channel to tune to and a different starting channel,for a tuner input. The script isn't being called as far as I can see. Certainly, the script works from the command line but myth isn't changing channel. Any ideas?
17:26<Chutt>engie, start debugging
17:26<Chutt>come back when you have a fix
17:26<engie>Thanks, Chutt
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17:40<warlord>Hmm, looks like it wasn't scheduling because /dev/video3 wasn't available due to the ivtv driver I had loaded..
17:40<warlord>oops.
17:40<warlord>that's fixed now..
17:40<warlord>but the ivtv-031117B driver is b0rked
17:55<michal>peters: also it seems Alan Cox was the one who pointed out the similarities between SATA and SCSI and motivated Jeff to hack up libata
17:56<michal>does anyone here know if the kernel bitkeeper patches are cumulative or standalone?
17:57<michal>oops.. sorry.. wrong channel :P
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21:22<brunes69>could someone tell me where in the myth code is the function that sets the audio capture level to 100% on the tunder card whenever mythtv is run?
21:23<brunes69>I used to have it changed to 50%, but now I can't find the place where it is set
21:24<Chiphead>maybe backend setup?
21:25<brunes69>its not a paramater you can adjust
21:25<brunes69>its compiled in there
21:25<brunes69>hardcoded to set the gain to 100
21:25<brunes69>theres this function I need to modify.. but I lost it
21:25<Chiphead>grep for 50
21:26<Chiphead>cant be that many 50s
21:26<_rkulagow>the volume hasn't been hardcoded for a long, long time.
21:26<brunes69>I grepped for 100 but I can't find it
21:26<brunes69>_rkulagow: Well, where can I adjust it then?
21:26<Chiphead>but you said you changed it to 50
21:26<brunes69>Chiphead: Yes, in my previous copy of the sources, which ar enow gone, hence why I am looking fo rthe function again :P
21:27<Chiphead>ahh i see ...
21:27<brunes69>_rkulagow: There's nowhere in the config where you can adjustt he gain on the audio in from the tv tuner
21:27<brunes69>it just cranks it up to 100%
21:27<brunes69>which is OK for people using a line out. on tv tune r-> line in on card
21:28<brunes69>but I use btaudio
21:28<brunes69>and the gain is way too high, distorts the sound to hell
21:28<_rkulagow>sound out is set through mythfrontend->setup->general. you line-in settings are set through whatever mixer program you're using.
21:29<Captain_Murdoch>NuppelVideoRecorder.cpp: va.volume = 65535;
21:29<brunes69>_rkulagow: Thats the thing; The problem is not the line-in, it is the gain on the tv tuner card
21:30<brunes69>and mythfrontend-.setup->general is just dsp volume, has nothing to do with the btaudio gain
21:30<brunes69>maybe the value is 8 bit... (255)
21:30<_rkulagow>take a look at what captain murdoch just posted and see if that's what you had modified last time.
21:31<davatar>does anyone know why livetv recording is planar YV12, and regular recording would not be yv12, but some odd horizontally-half interleaved yv12 format?
21:31<brunes69>Captain_Murdoch: Yeah I think thats it
21:31<brunes69>thanks!
21:31<brunes69>To whoever is responsible; that should REALLY be a paramater somewheres :P
21:31<brunes69>it makes using btaudio prettu much impossible
21:32<brunes69>if (volume == -1)
21:32<brunes69> va.volume = 65535; // no more silence 8-)
21:32<brunes69>no more silence is right.. lol
21:32<brunes69>it practically blows the speakers
21:33<_rkulagow>brunes69: i think you just volunteered yourself - write some better code and mail it to Isaac. there. now you're responsible.
21:33<_rkulagow>congrats!
21:33<brunes69>yeah but if I wrot ethe code I woudl just make it a rad only param form the database :P
21:34<brunes69>read
21:34<Chiphead>there ya go
21:34<Chiphead>submit a patch
21:34<brunes69>well thatd suck
21:34<brunes69>I dont have time, too many other thing son the go
21:34<brunes69>now that I have the function im happy
21:35* Chiphead is glad everyone dont feel that way
21:35<brunes69>well I have my own project to worry about
21:35<brunes69>and we're fast appraching a release
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21:39<Lenolium>anyone want to help me troubleshoot a mythtv-xbox frontend?
21:40<Chiphead>whats up Lenolium
21:40<Lenolium>I have it all uncompressed on my E drive, and I think I have linuxboot.cfg setup correctly, but it just sits there, and never displays anything.
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21:41<Chiphead>doesnt boot?
21:41<Chiphead>linux?
21:41<Lenolium>Perhaps evolutionX is destroying my universe.
21:41<Lenolium>Yeah, just sits there... no "Starting Linux..." no kernel messages, no network interfaces
21:42<Chiphead>you need to goto the xbox-linux channel on irc.oftc.com and get linux working first... we can help there
21:42<Lenolium>ahh, was just trying the mythtv-xbox disto... I'll head over there then
21:43<brunes>Anyone know if a geforce4 MX has XvMC / doe smyth support it?
21:43<Chiphead>several of use use xbox-linux for myth
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22:03<DogBoy>does that work well using an xbox?
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22:10<kvandivo>well enough
22:11<Chiphead>works excelently as a frontend
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22:11<Chiphead>cheapest frontend you can build
22:12<Chiphead>and you dont have to build it :)
22:17<DogBoy>you have to hack it to get the frontend to boot?
22:17<DogBoy>guess that would make a good frontend
22:19<Chiphead>you have to install linux which takes a hack or modification... but it runs myth very well once that is done
22:20<DogBoy>even with not so much ram?
22:20<kvandivo>it runs well enough
22:20<kvandivo>you can't be doing massive compiles, etc while watching tv
22:20<kvandivo>but as long as you take a few cares it will do a great job
22:21<billytwowilly>xbox?
22:21<kvandivo>nod
22:21<billytwowilly>plays divx files fine?
22:21<Lenolium>With the real linux solution, does it need to swap?
22:22<kvandivo>divx.. hmm.. i had transcoded a dvd to divx with mythdvd and it played it fine, ya.. haven't messed with anything other than mpeg 2 output for mythtv itself
22:22<kvandivo>'real linux solution', len?
22:22<kvandivo>it's only got 64 megs so, ya.. it's going to be swapping from time to time
22:22<Lenolium>kvandivo: I was looking at the mythtv-xbox distro... it was looking pretty well insane
22:23<kvandivo>i switched from kde to a lighter choice and a few things like that, and it works plenty well enough
22:23<kvandivo>and the price can't be beat
22:24<kvandivo>i'm running gentoox on mine, so I have to kinda plan my myth downtimes for when i want to do massive upgrades/compiles
22:24<billytwowilly>kvandivo: I use my mythtv box ~80 % of the time to play divx file and various other file types I've downloaded off the net.
22:24<billytwowilly>or transcoded off dvd.
22:24<kvandivo>so why'd you ask if it played divx files fine? :)
22:25<kvandivo>ahh wait.. never mind..
22:25<kvandivo>i misread what yo usaid..
22:25<billytwowilly>hehe;) If I find one for cheap on edm.forsale or something I'm gonna buy it;)
22:25<kvandivo>typically anytime i start a playback it stutters for the first second or two, and then it works just dandy
22:26<kvandivo>when i come out of a playback, it has serious sent the myth gui out to swap, so i get to watch it redraw the gui as it loads it from swap
22:26<kvandivo>but all of these things are relatively minor downsides to the relatively major upsides
22:27<billytwowilly>hmmm. that's not so good.. maybe I won't.. unless I can find one really cheap. How'd you hooka remote up to it?
22:27<kvandivo>the dvd remote that comes with the dvd playback kit..
22:27<billytwowilly>so you can't plug an ati remote wonder into it?
22:27<kvandivo>(one of the best features of a frontend in myth, if you ask me.. )
22:28<kvandivo>(the ability to have a remote that just 'works' is a fine, fine feature)
22:28<kvandivo>the xbox doesn't have the normal ports that a pc has, so you can't just plug PC peripherals into it
22:28<warlord>kvandivo: that implies an ir receiver...
22:28<kvandivo>ya, the remote comes with a little ir receiver dongle that you plug into one of the controller spots
22:28<kvandivo>i just leave mine plugged into spot 4 all the time
22:29<kvandivo>if you needed to play a 4 player game you'd have to swap it out (but that implies that people use their xbox to play games..)
22:30<kvandivo>the best deal on xboxes right now is the walmart.com deal.. the box, splinter cell, and mechassault (which you need to software hack the machine) for $180
22:30<kvandivo>add the dvd remote for <$30, and you have the hardware you need
22:30<warlord>LOL
22:30<warlord>I see..
22:30<kvandivo>(that's on _new_ xboxes.. ymmv if you go used)
22:32<Chiphead>kvandivo, I only experience the stutter at the start when Im compiling in the background (niced ofcourse)
22:34<kvandivo>so, point being, it's not bad, and definitely not a reason to stay away. however, we xbox owners believe in truth in advertising, so we aren't going to hide anything from anyone
22:34<billytwowilly>interesting.. I'd probably just get someone to mod it for me.. it's so cheap here in edmonton to get that done.
22:34<kvandivo>edmonton, huh? i was up there last august
22:34<billytwowilly>oh? where you from?
22:34<billytwowilly>Cowtown?
22:34<kvandivo>had a convention at the 'shaw'
22:34<billytwowilly>heehee;)
22:35<billytwowilly>what did you think of the shaw?
22:35<kvandivo>umm.. well, it looked kinda like a work of art.
22:35<kvandivo>but i'm not horribly impressed by art
22:35<billytwowilly>yah. The shaw always amuses me because they use it for conventions and such and also concerts.
22:36<kvandivo>had a hotel about a block up the street from the shaw.. only spent about 3 hours at the convention the whole time I was there, to be honest
22:36<billytwowilly>I've been there during both functions. During conventions the place is kept really clean and nice, but during concerts (I can personally attest to this happening at the bear's halloween party) People just trash the place. I've seen people pissing in the sinks and such.
22:36<kvandivo>went to the science center (mistake of time and money) and spent a couple of days at the mall
22:37<billytwowilly>So I always gigle when I see people washing their hands at conventions;)
22:37<kvandivo>:)
22:37<kvandivo>and then, after those days, i did what i really wanted to do... get out of the city and head west
22:37<billytwowilly>yah.. the space and science center is more for the kids now..
22:37<billytwowilly>Vancouver?
22:38<kvandivo>not that far.. (that would be to another city.. :)
22:38<kvandivo>jasper, banff.. _that_ stuff
22:38<billytwowilly>I love jasper and banff. \
22:38<kvandivo>i'm a sucker for mountains
22:38<billytwowilly>Did you do any golfing?
22:38<kvandivo>nope. should i have?
22:38<billytwowilly>Really nice golf course up that way in Kimberly called trickle creek I tink.
22:39<billytwowilly>although that's an hour or two away from banff.
22:39<billytwowilly>Banff itself has a really good golf course attached to the banff park lodge.
22:39<billytwowilly>I haven't golfed either course in about 6 years though.
22:39<kvandivo>i'll keep that in mind.. a truly gorgious area, though.. it just seems like the water falls, the beautiful mountain vistas, and interesting glacial formations will never end
22:40<billytwowilly>when was the first time you were up there?
22:40<kvandivo>did the columbia icefield tour... the lake boat ride.. maligne lake it is..
22:40<kvandivo>just been there once.. spent about 3 days in that area
22:40<billytwowilly>Yah columbia icefield is neat, the glacier has receded so far though.
22:40<kvandivo>early august of last year
22:41<kvandivo>i wish i could have spent a lot more time there.. did some hiking, etc.. but it didn't work out that way
22:41<billytwowilly>I remember going up there when I was little and then last year and the thing had receded probably a kilometer.
22:41<billytwowilly>That's too bad. you can always go back though.
22:41<billytwowilly>Where are you currently located?
22:41<kvandivo>no kidding.. seems like they said it was dropping a hundred foot a year or something like that
22:41<kvandivo>illinois
22:41<kvandivo>about 2500 miles from there, if memory serves correct
22:41<billytwowilly>that's mid-westish?
22:42<billytwowilly>My American geography sucks;)
22:42<kvandivo>hmm.. 25 hours, rather.. i think.. however many miles that adds up to
22:42<kvandivo>well, chicago is in illinois.. just below one of the western-ish great lakes
22:42<billytwowilly>oh. ok, so not mid-west then. more north.
22:42<billytwowilly>Ok, I kind of know where that is;)
22:42<kvandivo>oh, and after jasper/banff we sped through calgary and went to drumheller
22:43<billytwowilly>Drumheller was kind of neat. I enjoyed it way more when I was younger though.
22:43<billytwowilly>I suppose that's because my family usually does the museum thing.
22:43<kvandivo>it was kinda aimed at the younger generation. i found the geological features around there interesting, though
22:43<billytwowilly>The hiking through the hoodoo's (right name? I haven't been there in a while either)
22:43<billytwowilly>would have ben more fun.
22:43<kvandivo>yep.. the infamous hoodoos..
22:44<billytwowilly>er. been
22:44<kvandivo>so, that was the trip, in a nutshell... definitely not a regret. i think that edmonton, etc would be a bit cold for me to stay year round, though
22:45<kvandivo>i enjoyed the long hours of daylight, though
22:45<billytwowilly>Is it that much different than down in Illinois?
22:45<kvandivo>oh god yes
22:45<billytwowilly>Really?
22:46<billytwowilly>You're only a couple of degrees different than Edmonton.
22:46<kvandivo>http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?go=1&do=nw&ct=NA&1y=US&1a=&1c=edmonton&1s=ab&1z=&2y=US&2a=&2c=&2s=&2z=61820
22:47<billytwowilly>hmm. so you're roughly 1500 km south as well. That's more south than I thought.
22:47<billytwowilly>So what time does the sun set in the summer in Illinois?
22:47<kvandivo>summer?.. 8:30, 9ish
22:48<billytwowilly>up here's it's probably 10:30ish maybe later before it's completely dark.
22:48<kvandivo>maybe just a tiny bit later than that
22:48<kvandivo>right now it is setting about 4:30-4:45
22:48<billytwowilly>That's early.
22:48<billytwowilly>up here it's probably 5:30ish
22:49<billytwowilly>I'm just guessing though. I don't really keep track.
22:49<kvandivo>:)
22:49<billytwowilly>I thought We had it tough with the sun setting early though;)
22:50<kvandivo>Sunrise: 9:02 AM
22:50<kvandivo> Sunset: 5:36 PM
22:51<kvandivo>for you
22:51<billytwowilly>Heh, so I was pretty close;)
22:51<kvandivo>Sunrise: 7:39 AM
22:51<kvandivo> Sunset: 5:36 PM
22:51<billytwowilly>hurray for my powers of observation;)
22:51<kvandivo>for me.. so i was way off
22:51<billytwowilly>That's interesting that the sunset is the same.
22:51<kvandivo>isn't it, though
22:52<kvandivo>i'm on the extreme eastern edge of my timezone.. about 30 miles from here that would be 6:36
22:53<billytwowilly>That could explain it;) I was just going to ask if you guys were off of daylight savings time yet;)
22:53<kvandivo>ya.. that ended the last sunday in october
22:54<billytwowilly>Same for us. It would be illogical for it to be different for you guys, but I was grasping for straws;)
22:54<kvandivo>ya.. it's either our way, or the highway ;)
22:54<billytwowilly>Anyway, I have to go finish some spanish homework (DAMN YOU SPANISH 111!) So I'll talk to you later.
22:54<billytwowilly>cheers.
22:54<kvandivo>ya, it's been fun
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22:56<billytwowilly>It's almost a novelty;) Most of my contact with americans has been at Christmas at various resorts in Mexico and the dominican republic and most of those people had never heard of Edmonton, let alone appreciated the mountains;)
22:57<Teflon->ah cold snowy frozen wasteland known as canada. :) (I'm in Ottawa)
22:58<billytwowilly>Although I shouldn't give Americans a bad rap just because most of my experiences with them have been bad to mediocre. I've had plenty of good experiences on IRC with them as well, they just haven't blatantly identified themselves as americans..
22:58<billytwowilly>anyhoo. I should stop suffering from foot in mouth disease any day now, and in the mean time I'm going to go study.
22:58<billytwowilly>;)
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23:52<Lenolium>any recommended apt-sources for mythtv? (aka, ones with 0.12)
23:57<warlord>sorry, not a debian user
---Logclosed Tue Nov 18 00:00:19 2003