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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-11-21

---Logopened Fri Nov 21 00:00:09 2003
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00:52<Morph>hmm. zap2it..*grumble*
00:53<Teflon>uhoh
00:54<Teflon>what happened w/ zap2it now?
00:54<Morph>configuring myth and its coming back without a list of providers
00:54<Teflon>ah
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00:59<billytwowilly>arg.. another zap2it problem?
01:01<billytwowilly>damn.. it doesn't work for me either...
01:08<Morph>hrm.
01:08<billytwowilly>and the zap2it webpage looks different than it did the last time I looked...
01:09<Morph>uh oh.
01:10<billytwowilly>which brings us back to the fundamental question of why the hell isn't the information available to the public in an xml file or something? We pay for the cable service already.
01:10<Morph>good question.
01:17<billytwowilly>With an equally good answer. The cable company doesn't actually own the information on the shows that are showing on its very own network.
01:17<billytwowilly>They licence it.
01:39<billytwowilly>The CRTC needs to do something productive and mandate that this information needs to be available in an open format for people that pay for cable.
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01:58<o_c>oops. i'm already connected dammit. to early in the morning ;)
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01:59<o_cee>Geoffrey isn't here?
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02:18<linagee>if i put my pvr250 in a windows box, will the mpeg2 stream be more compatible?
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02:23<o_cee>more compatible?
02:24<dopez>the output stream might be a little more compatible for svcd/dvd usage
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02:30<o_cee>lol, that <b1tbkt> guy was funny :) (reading tonights log.. hehehe)
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02:39<tmk>lina: you can set all the same options with ivtv as you can with windows
02:39<tmk>you might just have to dig into what the right settings are
02:40<tmk>there's no setting for ivtv which will configure all the settings for 'dvd' streams
02:40<tmk>or svcd
02:40<tmk>or w/e
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02:41<o_cee>hey tmk
02:41<tmk>hi
02:41<dopez>at the rist of being completly wrong, but mpeg and dvd have a different mpeg packet size, was this added to the ivtv driver lately perhaps?
02:41<tmk>no
02:41<tmk>there's a 'dvd' streamtype
02:41<tmk>which presumably sets that
02:42<o_cee>i'm using the special2 for everything
02:42<o_cee>not that i've seen any difference
02:42<tmk>does the firmware die much?
02:42<dopez>me too, and reencode anything i want as svcd/vcd
02:43<o_cee>never
02:43<tmk>dopez: do you play them on dvd players?
02:43<o_cee>not that i know of at least, i have some problems sometimes but dunno what causes them
02:43<dopez>tmk: only after reencoding so i dont have interlaced mpeg's mostly
02:43<tmk>right, but you make 'valid' svcds right
02:44<dopez>indeed, using avidemux to reencode the megs
02:44<dopez>mpegs
02:44<tmk>can you email to the list which program and settings you use?
02:44<tmk>i need to do some archival myself
02:45<dopez>could you remind me again in about 10 hours? (i'm seeing double and im kinda tired at the moment, not a good time to do emails etc)
02:45<tmk>heh
02:45<tmk>i'll try
02:45<dopez>ok
02:46<dopez>(basicly its just reencode to mpeg2 at 480x480 at 2000/2500kbit with mp2 sound tho)
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04:37<linagee>i tried using special2 for everything. but the files come out about twice as big....
04:37<linagee>(and mythtv does not like to play them)
04:45<linagee>what stream_type do i set if i want windows to just be able to play the file with no special drivers besides media player?
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05:24<linagee>i've tried twice to make a playable DVD with the pvr250. always ends up in audio/video desync. :(
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09:39<bitbyte>mornin
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10:04<bitbyte>mornin thor
10:09<thor_>heh
10:09<bitbyte>indeed
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12:10<sanity>i am about to start putting together some dedicated hardware for a mythtv box - anyone got any suggestions for TV cards (in the UK)?
12:11<Chutt>kvandivo, are you still here? your patch is broken.
12:11<bline>pvr350 is nice
12:12<kvandivo>still here
12:13<Chutt>malformed patch :p
12:13<Chutt>doesn't apply
12:13<kvandivo>at all? or certain files?
12:13<Chutt>at all
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12:14<Chutt>gets to the menu xml files then bails.
12:15<kvandivo>checking out fresh cvs to try it out and see what needs to be done..
12:16<kvandivo>line 867...
12:18<Chutt>also, you sent it with a .tgz extension when it was just a .gz
12:19<kvandivo>line 854.. change the 19 to a 9
12:19<kvandivo>i hate having to tweak patch files to remove other pieces of uncommitted code
12:19<Chutt>that's why you don't do that.
12:20<kvandivo>and, sorry about the tgz.. the earlier version had multiple files and i apparently wasn't thinking
12:20<kvandivo>well, i realize it isn't good to do that.. short of some incantation of commands that i'm not aware of, though...
12:21<kvandivo>i guess for that one i could have had multiple copies checked out and probably have been ok
12:23<bbeattie>Has anyone reported successfully compiling myth when optimized for p4?
12:24<kvandivo>i guess in the future i'll have to do the 'patch against a clean checkout' before submitting patches that i've had to tweak... :)
12:29<Chutt>hmmm
12:29<Chutt>this'll break all existing themes.
12:29<Chutt>oh well
12:30<kvandivo>speaking of which... what's the preferred theme to be editting? should i have done 'default' instead of 'blue'? i was curious about that
12:30<bitbyte>mornin gents
12:31<Chutt>default contains fallbacks for things
12:31<Chutt>it's not a theme itself
12:31<kvandivo>ahh.. ok...
12:35<sanity>bline: what about the 350 is better than the 250?
12:35<sanity>also, anyone have a good recommendation for a quiet hard drive?
12:37<Chutt>kvandivo, you've tested all this?
12:37<kvandivo>yes
12:37<kvandivo>double tested the dbcheck stuff, even
12:38<kvandivo>(since i personally consider that the most dangerous part.. anything that screws with the db)
12:38<kvandivo>i was _this_ close to sending this in a while back before i realized/discovered that the variable names in 'settings' had/needed to change
12:39<kvandivo>would have lost previous preferences without that..
12:41<bline>sanity: I have a 250, but I understand the tvout on the 350 is much better than any video card.
12:41<bline>sanity: search the -users archive to get a ganeral opinion, lots of posts about the pvrx50
12:43<thor_>uhm , what are we breaking in themes?
12:43<bline>sanity: my seagate is pretty quiet, there are also special noice dampening harddrive mounts you can get
12:44<Chutt>thor, just the record ranking screens need renamed
12:44<Chutt>nothing major
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12:45<thor_>k
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12:47<Chutt>cvs should be compileable again
12:48<thor_>cool
12:55<warlord>wow, what a concept..
13:01<Chutt>err, nope
13:01<Chutt>kvandivo left an extra include in there =)
13:01* kvandivo mutters to himself.
13:01<kvandivo>again.. sorry..
13:02* kvandivo makes a mental note that not only will he have to apply the patch to a fresh checkout from cvs, he'll also have to compile it.
13:04<thor_>yeah, well, let's see him turn off everyone's right audio channel !
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13:06<mdz>kvandivo: the easiest thing to do is to keep a separate working directory for big changes, then you can easily update and resolve conflicts
13:06<kvandivo>ya.. i didn't really expect this to be that big of a change when i started it.
13:06<warlord>renames are always big changes ;)
13:09<kvandivo>at any rate.. i've got everything on my laptop now (which i'm going to take out of town with me) and hopefully over the next week I'll get actual ranking code in where the user can rank the shows they actually like
13:13<warlord>you mean my myth might start recording stuff on my behalf that it thinks I might like?!?
13:15<kvandivo>absolutely.. if you let it
13:16<kvandivo>i've already got it doing it (see patches sent to -dev) based on rows in 'record', 'recorded', and 'oldrecorded'
13:16<kvandivo>but that doesn't give me the control i want
13:17<warlord>Heh.
13:18<thor_>excellent
13:19<bline>doesn't tivo do that?
13:19<thor_>now ... p2p exchange of matched rankings set = distributed reccomendation engine (hee hee)
13:20<kvandivo>bline: yes, but not with near the customizability that i have planned
13:20<bline>nice
13:20<kvandivo>thor_: yes, collaborative is definitely planned as well
13:20<thor_>dig em
13:22<warlord>:)
13:22<kvandivo>http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~kvandivo/mythtv/recommend/thoughts.txt has a small number of things i've done with it so far. i've got other docs as well, but they aren't online yet
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13:25<thor_>oh crap, people are paying attention to my ill thought ramblings
13:25<thor_>thought out
13:26<kvandivo>they are recorded... no proof that anyone is paying attention, though.
13:26* kvandivo grins evily.
13:26<thor_>:)
13:27<thor_>namespace is going to be a bitch ...
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13:28<kvandivo>yep. my current code uses title, subtitle, and description.... which actually does impressively well, given what it has to work with..
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13:28<kvandivo>for the new stuff, i think i'm going to let users rank programs, and then store subtitle and description info in another table for calculation purposes
13:28<kvandivo>so you'll rank 'Friends'.. not a particular episode of friends.
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13:30<thor_>yup ... but what do they call Friends on, say, German television ?
13:30<kvandivo>but, i don't want the new to be less accurate than what i've got now, so i'll go ahead and store specific 'friend' show information so that those words can be used.
13:30<kvandivo>oh, you are meaning collaborative stuff.. ya.. the foreign language thing is going to be tricky
13:31<bitbyte>you haven't lived til you've watched Alf and "The Golden Girls" in German
13:31<sfr>thor_: Friends :)
13:31<thor_>yeah ... well ... walk then run
13:31<thor_>sfr, ah ...
13:31<kvandivo>that's a question.. sfr.. do all shows produced in america retain their english names, or is friends special?
13:32<sfr>kvandivo: depends on the title. some keep the original title, some don't.
13:32<kvandivo>i would imagine that subtitles and descriptions are probably translated to the local language..
13:32<sfr>sure.
13:32<kvandivo>hmm... interesting
13:33<bitbyte>germans don't typically subtitle, they overdub. or that's how it used to be
13:33<sfr>bitbyte: unfortunatelly, yes
13:33<kvandivo>i'm actually referring to the show episode title, bitbyte
13:33<bitbyte>ah ok
13:33<bitbyte>sorry
13:33<kvandivo>np
13:33<thor_>Zee one vith zee male nanny
13:34* kvandivo presents thor_, who knows way too much about Friends.
13:34<bitbyte>scary huh?
13:34<thor_>and someone's probably recording this
13:35<bitbyte>hehe
13:35<bitbyte>logs babyyy
13:35<sfr>thor_: ? dutch?
13:35<kvandivo>http://thegrebs.com/irc
13:35<bitbyte>kaaskop?
13:35<thor_>sfr, that was my lame attempt at an IRC german accent ... maybe closer to austrian
13:35<sfr>thor_: blush. yeah, got it ;)
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13:36<kvandivo>hmm... well, folks.. it's been fun. Have a great thanksgiving, if you swing that way, and i'll see everyone afterwards (if not sooner)
13:37<sfr>vacation? have fun
13:37<warlord>take care
13:37<kvandivo>later
13:43<warlord>dont gorge too much
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13:55<o_cee>guys
13:55<o_cee>http://cvs.mythtv.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/mythtv/themes/blue/theme.xml?content-type=text%2Fplain&rev=1.16
13:55<o_cee>is fucked up
13:55<o_cee> <buttondef name="TV_RECPRIORITIES"> <-- look at that one
13:56<Chutt>um, no, it's fine.
13:56<sfr>latest cvs commit, i guess. from kvandivo's patch afaik
13:57<o_cee>exactly.
13:57<o_cee>Chutt: please have another look.
13:57<Chutt>oh, oops, i thought i had committed the fix for that
13:57<Chutt>i did fix it here :p
13:57<o_cee>:)
13:57<o_cee>thought i'd upgrade my theme
13:58<o_cee>have to get a release out, haven't had time to work on it at all lately
13:58<warlord>oh, is there some reason the Status button doesn't have an icon?
13:58<Chutt>because no one made one?
13:59<o_cee>i just added one to my theme ;)
13:59<o_cee>i'll try to get out a preview release today, promise
13:59<o_cee>or. that would be, in thte next hour. of not, then maybe tomorrow
14:02<sfr>how made the blue theme anyway?
14:02<sfr>pfft, Who...
14:04<o_cee>dunno, chutt i think? :)
14:04<o_cee>did you look at the bt btw?
14:04<Chutt>it's in the authors file.
14:05<Chutt>geoffrey hausheer looked at your backtrace.
14:05<sfr>the TangoBlue theme?
14:06<Chutt>yes
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14:11<o_cee>yeah, will see what he says
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15:57<gulliver>hi all
15:58<gulliver>I'd like to play a bit with coding mythtv-plugins. is there maybe a short introduction how to start?
15:58<gulliver>or a very simple plugin which is easy to understand?
15:59<sfr>hi. mythweather or mythnews maybe.
16:00<sfr>what idea are you thinking about?
16:00<gulliver>I'd like to implement a xine-frontend as mythtv-module
16:01<gulliver>I would like this better than loading the normal xine-ui as external ui, which has a very different OSD to mythtv, other IR behavior, etc.
16:01<sfr>but you already can use xine for playing dvd's today. ah, i see
16:02<gulliver>I don't really like the way of loading an external program which has other ui-behaviors than the rest of the application. doing a frontend in myth-style should make the whole thing somewhat more "complete"
16:04<gulliver>also it would be interesting, if I could "recycle" the mythtv-osd code to do a similiar looking osd for xine. (the osd-stuff in xine is done by the ui)
16:04<sfr>so mythdvd starts xine in gui-mode? haven't used it yet.
16:05<warlord>hmm, i've got a video that gives me an mpeg1video error and then the video remains choppy after that point. playing in mplayer works fine.
16:06<warlord>[mpeg1video @ 0x85327c8]ac-tex damaged at 2 26
16:06<warlord>[mpeg1video @ 0x85327c8]concealing errors
16:06<warlord>[mpeg1video @ 0x85327c8]Warning MVs not available
16:06<warlord>[mpeg1video @ 0x85327c8]slice below image (69 >= 30)
16:06<warlord>[mpeg1video @ 0x85327c8]slice below image (37 >= 30)
16:06<warlord>[mpeg1video @ 0x85327c8]slice below image (55 >= 30)
16:06<warlord>[mpeg1video @ 0x85327c8]concealing errors
16:06<gulliver>it starts xine with the parameter -ghfq i think. this means, that the UI gets hidden (but it's running), it switches automatic to fullscreen (but first it is a window) and quits xine automatically after the video is completed
16:06<warlord>[mpeg1video @ 0x85327c8]slice below image (38 >= 30)
16:06<warlord>[mpeg1video @ 0x85327c8]concealing errors
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16:10<schwin97>Just saw the caller id / mythnotify... I like the idea
16:10<bitbyte>hm, interesting
16:10<schwin97>also like the vosd... it should make a lot more applications easier to implement
16:11<Chutt>i need to make the scroller not clear out existing text when adding new stuff
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16:11<Chutt>for a news ticker thingie
16:11<gulliver>schwin97: what is vosd?
16:12<Chutt>heh
16:12<Chutt>warlord, i've gotten 114 hits to mythtv.org from your website this month :p
16:12<schwin97>Chutt: Maybe I'll try to integrate mythnews into mythtv... let us add a ticker of our news feeds
16:13<warlord>Chutt: really?!? Wow, I dont think I even announced my website anywhere except in here.
16:13<schwin97>I am not sure exactly what the v stands for, but I would assume virtual? Need to look at in more depth
16:14<schwin97>but first I must download the latest cvs... been using 0.11 for awhile now
16:14<gulliver>is it like the normal osd, shown in tv mode?
16:17<gulliver>this would possibly make my life implenting the osd for the xine-frontend much easier
16:18<schwin97>nope... it allows for outside programs to put information into the osd...
16:19<gulliver>but it shows the same way, the tv-osd does? or is it just an extra (non-transparent, not osd-theme-following) window?
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16:20<bitbyte>warlord, whats the url for your site?
16:21<warlord>heh
16:21<warlord>if you're not running RH9 then it's not important.
16:23<bitbyte>well, i am
16:23<bitbyte>:)
16:23<warlord>www.ihtfp.org/mythtv/
16:25<schwin97>gulliver: shows the same I believe, but with a different template
16:25<gulliver>schwin97: but the template is customisable, isn't it? - and does it work when in menu, too?
16:25<warlord>Chutt: I definitely think there is either a bug in myth's libavcodec or myth's handling of mpeg2 errors. I just ran mplayer and forced the ffmpeg2 video codec. It shows the same ac-tex damages but not the same video effects after the errors.
16:26<schwin97>gulliver: I would assume, but don't know yet...
16:27<gulliver>schwin97: ok, thanks. will have a look at it myself, too
16:28* warlord is looking at the differences now..
16:29<bitbyte>phooie, got disconnected
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16:48<thor_>warlord, you tried the mfd serving of mythmusic content ?
16:48<warlord>thor_: no. i dont have any content in mythmusic.
16:49<warlord>I'm waiting for mfd to use content served from iTunes
16:49<thor_>right, ok
16:49<warlord>*THEN* I'll play ;)
16:49<thor_>yup
16:49<warlord>(or, rather, my wife will ;)
16:53<warlord>HMM... I've got ffmpeg build 4684, whereas myth seems to have 4692. I wonder if that's part of the reason I'm seeing the problem -- I dont know if it's an ffmpeg issue or a myth issue. :(
16:53<schwin97>anyone using the pcHDTV card?
16:53<schwin97>and if so, you don't need a decoder box with it correct?
16:54<bitbyte>you mean a set-top box?
16:54<bitbyte>to decode the signal?
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16:56<bitbyte>the antenna hooks to the pcHDTV card, then it simply streams the mpeg2 data to a file for "recording". There' sno encoding needed because the stream is already mpeg2
16:56<thor_>hey, new (for me) gcc error: declaration does not declare anything
16:57<schwin97>thought so... actually listened to the radio shack guy... what was I thinking
16:57<bitbyte>radio shack sells pcHDTV cards?
16:57<schwin97>no... radio shack for the antenna
16:57<bitbyte>oh
16:57<bitbyte>the card acts as a set top box, has a tuner etc in it
16:57<bitbyte>cept it's in your pc
16:57<schwin97>guy said, "Gonna cost you 600 for hdtv on the computer
16:58<bitbyte>heh
16:58<bitbyte>even the windows based cards aren't THAT much
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17:00<schwin97>yeah... I didn't think he knew what he was talking about, but I haven't gotten that far in my home theater
17:00<bitbyte>it's kinda confusing at first
17:00<bitbyte>well ok, it's still a tad confusing later on too
17:01<schwin97>the next part is to determine just how many hdtv channels I can get ota
17:03<thor_>http://www.antennaweb.org
17:03<schwin97>thor_: are all the channels they list hdtv? If so, then I am a happy guy
17:04<thor_>Anything with a * in the Digital column
17:04<schwin97>:)
17:22<o_cee>thor_: you got time?
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17:40<o_cee>thor?
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17:47<Apophis>What is the prefered mod chip for an xbox front end?
17:48<o_cee>uh
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17:54<schwin97>pwd
17:54<schwin97>w/w
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19:12<linagee>wow. the pcHDTV card is only $189.99? geez. should have gotten that rather than the pvr250. :(
19:17<warlord>I just wish my pvr-350 output was more stable.. it's SO MUCH better than s/w decode.
19:18<warlord>but it crashes hard a lot.
19:18<o_cee>everyone says it looks beautiful
19:18<warlord>It does.
19:18<o_cee>can't wait
19:18<warlord>when it works.
19:19<o_cee>:)
19:19<warlord>:)
19:19<warlord>It crashed during the EPG from LiveTV
19:20<o_cee>did you change the trans epg?
19:20<warlord>"trans epg?"
19:20<o_cee>transparent
19:20<warlord>Ahh, no, not yet.
19:20<o_cee>got used to it?
19:20<warlord>No, just haven't played with that, yet.
19:21<o_cee>hehe
19:21<o_cee>k
19:21<warlord>I suspect I need to change '164' -> '0'
19:21<warlord>but I'm not 100% sure.
19:21<o_cee>or -> 255
19:21<o_cee>;)
19:21<warlord>Yea, I don't know..
19:22<warlord>I'll play with it another time.
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21:23<bbeattie2>I just want to verify, but is the reason mythtv's architecture is set to pentiumpro simply for reverse compatibility? -- And any idea how much performance can be gained in the playing of tv shows if using i686 or athlon-xp compile architures?
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21:41<thor_>Clay is not really the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree
21:42<josephk>derr, huh?
21:42<thor_>mailing list
21:42<bbeattie2>thor_: does it normally take you about 4 hours to transcode a dvd with the excelent setting?
21:42<thor_>depends on the CPU :-)
21:43<bbeattie2>athlon 2600+
21:43<thor_>I can do excellent in about 1.2 times the playing time on a Pentium 4 2.something
21:43<thor_>real Pentium 4
21:43<thor_>ht and everything
21:44<bbeattie2>I'm using the debian transcode packages, probably not optimized, hmm, I'm about 2.2 times Ahh,
21:44<thor_>lot slower on an old AMD
21:44<bbeattie2>thor_: did you copmile transcode yourself?
21:44<thor_>yup
21:44<bbeattie2>march=pentium4?
21:44<thor_>oh, I dunno ... let me look at the config.h
21:45<bbeattie2>I have been setting up my fathers new p4 3ghz w/ht and myth won't compile with pentium4, had to sue i686
21:46<thor_>I just ran configure
21:46<thor_>gcc line looks like this:
21:46<thor_>-O3 -funroll-loops -ffast-math -DLINUX -Wall -g -O3 -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -MT avilib.o -MD -MP -MF ".deps/avilib.Tpo" \ etc.
21:47<bbeattie2>can you find any line using march?
21:49<thor_>doesn't look like it ... I think you need to do ./configure --march=blah (or whatever) to get it to do that
21:49<thor_>ah
21:49<thor_>hang on
21:49<thor_>-O2 -g -Wall -ffast-math -DARCH_X86 -DHAVE_MMX
21:50<thor_>the ever powerful _X86 !
21:50<bbeattie2>hmm, I'll try building my own transcode, monsters inc, 90 minutes, took 4.2 hours to transcode :) first pass was 2 hours alone . X86, heh, I'll look into the compile flag, could you watch #flood, I want you rto check my transcode summary to see if I'm missing anything critical,
21:51<thor_>yup, although I have to go out shortly, you can always e-mail it to me (whatever@lamedomainname.com)
21:51<bbeattie2>neverind on flood,
21:51<bbeattie2>I can't cut and paste on this syste, ;-/
21:56<bbeattie2>basically it won't compile pvm3, mjpegtools dependant modules, libdv, theora, liba52, aviapi file support, mmx (Dunno if this is because it's an athlon?), liblzo, xml2, exper. lve, libmpeg3 dep. mod., libpostproc, quicktime dep. mod., or freetype2. [ Is this about what you get, or do I need some of those items also for mythdvd? ]
22:00<josephk>whats a pretty stable version of cvs?
22:00<josephk>like to use a wee bit back...possibly 10-28
22:02* Captain_Murdoch doesn't know cause he runs the CVS of the future since he has uncommitted patches in his tree.
22:02<Captain_Murdoch>why use such an old version?
22:02<josephk>hmmm...that might be too far...lol
22:03<josephk>I want to get passed a certain error with exiting live tv, but early enough to use older ivtv driver
22:03<josephk>so I guess first week in Nov is ok
22:03<josephk>pre-Nov-8
22:04<josephk>of course future versions are always fun to try;D
22:05<Captain_Murdoch>I didn't think anything was different in current cvs that made it not work with any ivtv newer than 10/31 or so. maybe I'm wrong.
22:07<josephk>current cvs can't be used with anything earlier than Nov-8
22:07<josephk>bah...I
22:07<josephk>'ll just try and fix the problems;)
22:08<josephk>although the ones in the ivtv driver may be difficult:D
22:09<thor_>bbeatie2, everything compiles fine for me ....
22:10<thor_>only thing you really need for mythdvd is dvivX/XViD (I think)
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22:58<bbeattie2>thor_: alright. I'll give my build a time test try.
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---Logclosed Sat Nov 22 00:00:35 2003