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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-11-25

---Logopened Tue Nov 25 00:00:10 2003
---Daychanged Tue Nov 25 2003
00:00<davatar>er, 0x3f8
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00:01<hadees>sorry
00:01<hadees>button got stuck
00:04<rcam>\33+
00:04<rcam>|33+
00:06-!-robbie__ [~rob@ESS-p-144-138-94-106.mega.tmns.net.au] has joined #mythtv
00:07<davatar>actually, whenever lirc_serial gets loaded after serial, but before the ups service connects to /dev/ttyS1, lirc_serial takes over, regardless of it's module options.. hrrmmph..
00:07-!-hadees [~hadees@pcp01500034pcs.univde01.de.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:07<robbie__>hey i just unsubscribed from mythtv-users (too much noise)
00:07<robbie__>however i have a feature request
00:08<robbie__>when in delete recordings you can only selete on eshow at a time
00:08<robbie__>however if you choose a show name on the left and hit delete have the option to delete all recordings of that show
00:08-!-Viddy [~lsk@visp194-179.visp.co.nz] has joined #mythtv
00:08* robbie__ has way too many simpsons episodes
00:09<dopez>heh
00:09<robbie__>hi dopez
00:09<dopez>i wish i had too many simpsons eps..
00:09<dopez>hi robbie__
00:09<robbie__>its on atleast 10 times a week here in oz
00:10<robbie__>i found out why ivtv was getting unstable for me, was running not recent enough cvs of myth and there simply wasnt a driver that worked well
00:10<dopez>i think they are repeating it here in holland too, about 5 times a week
00:10<robbie__>updated and all was good again :)
00:10<dopez>nice :)
00:11<robbie__>man i just got a box ready for my dad so he could watch mash and they took it off last friday :)
00:11<robbie__>and replaced it with that damn riva
00:11<dopez>i know a way to fix the tinny audio, but i have no idea how to add it in mythtv or the itvt driver :(
00:11<robbie__>is the problem more myth or ivtv related ?
00:11<dopez>ivtv
00:12<robbie__>why dont you post it to the mailing lists
00:12<dopez>i did, but im waiting for tmk to release the new ivtv drivers (he's quite busy rewriting it)
00:12-!-Captain_Murdoch_ [~cpinkham@p129.n-dcpop07.stsn.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:13<dopez>and if i knew a little more c/c++ i would just hack it in mythtv or the driver
00:13<robbie__>it was getting depressing, couldnt work out why everything was turning to shit on my myth box
00:13<robbie__>so whats your fix ?
00:13<dopez>change the input
00:13-!-Captain_Murdoch_ [~cpinkham@p129.n-dcpop07.stsn.com] has joined #mythtv
00:13<robbie__>and then back ?
00:13<dopez>indeed
00:14-!-pmowry [~pmowry@ip-66-218-239-211.cableaz.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:14<dopez>it fixes the audio, and seems to also fix the corrupted video some have sometimes
00:14<robbie__>is that a proper fix for whatever the problem is or a bandaid fix ?
00:14-!-robbie__ is now known as robbie
00:15<dopez>im not sure actually
00:16<Teflon>the oc and firefly... worthy uses of the pvr by my wife. (good writing in both, albeit the OC isn't stellar, its entertaining and funny)
00:16-!-Captain_Murdoch_ [~cpinkham@p129.n-dcpop07.stsn.com] has quit [Client Quit]
00:16<dopez>i guess if it fixes the tinny audio and the video corruption it should be a good fix
00:16<robbie>true
00:16<robbie>i havent encountered video corruption
00:17<dopez>i have, but not as much as the tinny audio
00:17<robbie>however before zero length files and tinny audio i had occasional non audio
00:17<Teflon>i still occasionally get no audio
00:17<Teflon>vertical banding seems to be fixed though
00:17<dopez>i resolved the no audio with adding a standard= to the msp3400 module
00:17<robbie>i should try that again
00:18<robbie>msp3400 once=1 simple=1 standard=3
00:18<robbie>should i do it like that ?
00:18<robbie>ive been loading it with no opotions
00:18<dopez>i've heard the standard option doesnt work for ntsc tho
00:18* robbie is pal country
00:18<dopez>ok
00:19<dopez>you might want to lose the once=1 as it might give you mono once in a while
00:20<dopez>(it only detects stereo or mono on channel changes with that)
00:22<robbie>cool, atleast my logs arent filling up with dma errors now, previous if i used those options /var filled up rather quick
00:22<dopez>maybe using a wrong debug option?
00:23<robbie>even with debug = 0
00:23<dopez>odd
00:23<robbie>and i got many lost frames
00:23* dopez notices this isnt #ivtv-dev ;)
00:23<robbie>that was with my old cvs myth and recent ivtv
00:23<robbie>heh, yeah
00:24<robbie>well we are using myth
00:24<dopez>indeed
00:25<robbie>i had to quit the myth list, too much noise, top posting and people not starting fresh threads
00:25<robbie>it was too hard to follow
00:25* robbie is certain they wont miss him
00:25<dopez>i'm only subscribed to the ivtv-dev and mytht-dev list, but hardly reading the myth list
00:26<robbie>i like getting mail from myth-commits :)
00:26<dopez>i dont have too much to do tho, so its not too hard to follow the lists
00:26<dopez>i should subscrive to the myth-commit list indeed ;)
00:27<robbie>good to know when something interesting has happened
00:27-!-DogBoy [~john@cs2428116-149.houston.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
00:28<dopez>yeah, especially since i've move the backend to a p3-500, it takes a while to compile mythtv on it
00:28<dopez>(on a p4 2.8 it was only 10 minutes orso)
00:28<robbie>ya, myth does take a long tim eto build
00:31-!-warlord is now known as warlord-afk
00:33<dopez>hm, good time to go afk indeed
00:33<ChaosExiguum>hrm... just updated my mythcvs, and now frontend freezes on playback recorded screen
00:33<ChaosExiguum>before it populates with data
00:34<ChaosExiguum>and watch live take me to a dead black screen
00:34<robbie>what is afk ?
00:34<ChaosExiguum>mythweb works fine
00:34<ChaosExiguum>robbie, away-from-keyboard
00:34<robbie>aha
00:34<ChaosExiguum>or komputer if you prefer :o)
00:34<dopez>hee
00:35<dopez>+h
00:35<rcam>HI
00:35<dopez>hello
00:35<rcam>I am so excited about installing MythTV.
00:35<rcam>I am downloading KnnopMyth now.
00:35<rcam>Taking a long time.
00:37<rcam>You guys like KnnopMyth?
00:37<dopez>i've never used knopmyth
00:37<rcam>o:(
00:37<dopez>sounds like a good idea tho
00:37<rcam>It seems to be a great solution.
00:37<dopez>(ie, no hd's spinning in the frontend)
00:37<rcam>ALl in one... so we know it works.
00:37<rcam>Plus out of the box I dont have to do much :)
00:38<dopez>indeed :)
00:38<rcam>The one thing that kills me is all my systems are high end.
00:38<davatar>bootable usb key frontend would be even nicer :)
00:38<rcam>The one I am going to put Myth on is a AMD64 3400+
00:38<robbie>crikey
00:38<rcam>AMD just sent a bunch of them.
00:38<dopez>damn, thats quite a nice box ;)
00:39<rcam>Yeah.
00:39<rcam>And I have found no use for it yet :)
00:39<rcam>AMD64 WIndows sucks right now.
00:39<dopez>my fastest box is a p4 2.8, slowest is a p133 ;)
00:39<dopez>i dont use windows, no idea there
00:39<rcam>Its funny... in 32bit mode the AMD64 out performs my Intel 3.4 ghz P4 Extreame
00:39<davatar>mmm. 720x480+denoise3d capture :).. of course if you can afford that for a myth box, get digital/hdtv...
00:40<dopez>i've no doubt there, amd's are ussually faster then intels, its just that most amd chipsets suck :( (VIA/SIS/etc)
00:40<rcam>nForce 3 :)
00:41<rcam>I am thinking of a nice custom case.
00:41<dopez>i just hope nvidia have better memory compatiblity now :)
00:41<dopez>(nforce2 was pretty bad)
00:41<rcam>I use a Geforce FX 5950 Ultra 256 Meg for video
00:41<rcam>nForce 3 is nice... I have the AMD boards as well.
00:42<rcam>I needed to find a use for some of the extra AMD boxes.
00:42<dopez>still usiing a gf4ti here, and it dont hope to replace it for a few years :)
00:42<rcam>He.
00:42<rcam>I get whatever is the latest and greatest. Usually before it comes to market.
00:42<dopez>hm, where do i get such a job ? :)
00:43<rcam>I am the President and CEO of RCAM Games at Universal STudios in Orlando, FL.
00:43<dopez>i guess that helps ;)
00:43<rcam>It makes me wonder what to do with all the old crap. Like the 3Ghz Intel machines with messly Geforce FX 5900s.
00:44<dopez>sell it?
00:44<rcam>measly* ?
00:44<rcam>I can't.
00:44<dopez>give it away :)
00:44<rcam>I would violate our agreements.
00:44<rcam>I genrally give or trade things away.
00:44<rcam>A lot of it goes to our quality assurance guys.
00:44-!-DogBoy [~john@cs2428116-149.houston.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
00:44<rcam>And sometimes I send stuff to people... Like r00t.
00:45<dopez>maybe it would make a nice cluster for dvd-ripping or such
00:45<rcam>We have a Beuwolf cluster offsite.
00:45<dopez>hehe
00:45<rcam>I used to run one in my garage.
00:45<rcam>It got old...
00:45<rcam>I had little use for it.
00:45<DogBoy>I got one in my car
00:45<rcam>A cluster?
00:46<DogBoy>just kidding
00:46<rcam>O...
00:46<dopez>i could run one too, but it would only be p90-233 and k6-350-550, it would match up with one p4 2.8
00:46<dopez>wouldnt even..
00:46<rcam>I was thinking of putting a AMD64 in the escalade but the LCDs kinda small... 6.4 inchs on the seats.
00:47<rcam>Have you ever used MythTV to rip DvDs?
00:47<dopez>only dvd:rip
00:47<dopez>or mencoder
00:47<rcam>Why not Myth>?
00:47<dopez>i dont own dvd's :)
00:47<rcam>I see.
00:48<rcam>Well I wish to use it to do so... I have a rather large DvD collection.
00:48<rcam>I wish there was room in a Dodge Viper for an AMD64. I would tarde 100 Horsepower!
00:48<dopez>i do capture allot of tv-shows/movies with a pvr250 and convert it to divx/mpeg4
00:49<dopez>hmm
00:49<rcam>Thats cool.
00:49-!-billytwowilly [~chris@h24-66-18-138.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #mythtv
00:49<rcam>I was thinking of putting together a nice skin for Myth.
00:50<rcam>Any ideas? I was thinking of an Aqua skin... Appleish.
00:50<dopez>might be nice
00:50<rcam>I wish I had a better idea.
00:50<rcam>Does the weather really affect the backround on some themes?
00:50<billytwowilly>rcam: Go nuts. That'd be cool.
00:50<dopez>im not really any good with graphics tho, or coding, or anything on that mather :)
00:50<ChaosExiguum>be wary of too much whiteness on tv screens looking bad
00:51<rcam>I am good with the graphics, never dabbled in the coding.
00:51<billytwowilly>you can search in the mythtv mailing list archive for ideas on skin usability issues to think about.
00:51<davatar>the blue skin needs work.. Everything else just seems.. gaudy.... I'm just a function of function over form.
00:51<rcam>I like blue.
00:51<rcam>:)
00:51<dopez>i kinda like the default theme
00:51<davatar>mm that made sense :)
00:51<rcam>Freevo looks nice.
00:52<rcam>No funcionality... I wish the projects would merge.
00:52-!-beau [~beau@adsl-66-127-113-94.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #mythtv
00:52<billytwowilly>rcam: They are almost completely different..
00:52<rcam>More effort would allow for a single better solution.
00:52<billytwowilly>freevo is written mostly in python I think.
00:52<rcam>billytwowilly I know it would be a difficult thing to do... but it would make things very nice.
00:52<rcam>Imagine double of the development power.
00:53<billytwowilly>rcam: Probably not. It'd be better just to scrap one and get the developers to work on the other.
00:53<billytwowilly>The nice thing about a free market of ideas is that that actually happens to some degree.
00:53<rcam>I would like to see an offical MythTV distro.
00:53<ChaosExiguum>i dunno, sometimes myth seems like its growing too fast as it is
00:53<billytwowilly>knoppmyth
00:53<rcam>Yeah.
00:53<rcam>I know.
00:53<rcam>But its not offical.
00:53<rcam>Cesman should work with the Myth team.
00:54<rcam>Any direct links to skin ideas?
00:54<rcam>Does the weather really affect the backround in some themes?
00:54<billytwowilly>I think the nice thing about the GPL is that you don't need anyone to make it official. cesman idles on here and I think most/all of the developers know about it.
00:54<ChaosExiguum>I have never heard of the weather affecting the theme background
00:55<billytwowilly>I have no idea. I don't code or do the graphics. I just leech;)
00:55<rcam>Does the weather move in this one http://mythtv.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=index&do=showpic&pid=20&orderby=hitsD
00:55<billytwowilly>rcam: Why don't you install it and check it out?
00:55<rcam>I am downloading the KnopMyth distro now.
00:55<rcam>Taking a while.
00:55<rcam>Had to use the torrent.
00:55<ChaosExiguum>ahh, no, always the same sky
00:56<billytwowilly>oh. what's the specs on the box you're installing it on?
00:56<rcam>Hmm someone on the fourms said it moved.
00:56<rcam>That would be cool.
00:56<billytwowilly>I don't think I've heard of any of the themes having moving stuff. cool and good are two different things.
00:56<billytwowilly>if the background moved it would distract the user from the menus and make them harder to read.
00:57<beau>let alone the cpu-suck
00:57<rcam>billytwowilly AMD 64 3400 + AND Geforce FX 5950 AND 512MB AND 80GIG AND DVD AND 2X PVR 350
00:58<davatar>the menus are slow as it is, althought themes may only be a minor contributor to that, no need to help it :)
00:58<billytwowilly>rcam: You're going to install knoppmyth on that and not use it for anything else?
00:58<davatar>what does a gffx 5950 do in a mythtv box?
00:58<rcam>davatar, What are your specs?
00:58<rcam>billytwowilly, Yes.
00:58<rcam>davatar, Its lying around.
00:58<ChaosExiguum>davatar, make noise
00:58<ChaosExiguum>:o)
00:59<davatar>rcam: athlon 1300, 1.5GB ram, ~1TB gffx 5200
00:59<billytwowilly>rcam: hook me up with part of your trust fund;)
00:59<rcam>I am going to water cool it if I am annoyed by the sound.
00:59<knight->why do you have 1.5gb of ram?
00:59<knight->seems like a waste
00:59<knight->unless you've got a ram disk
00:59<davatar>./quake announcer overkill!
00:59<beau>indeed. ;-)
00:59<rcam>billytwowilly I wont bother explaining... I have to much hardware anyway.
01:00<billytwowilly>rcam: I'm kind of curious;)
01:00<davatar>it's a hand-me-down from my old box.. I bought three 512mb dimms for $22 a piece back in that summer when ram priced hit rock bottom.
01:00<davatar>it's also a file server... cache=good.. otherwise I pretty much cache all necessary system files.
01:00<rcam>An old machine to me is a 3Ghz Intel machines with a messly Geforce FX 5900s.
01:01<knight->what are uyou using to cache?
01:01<billytwowilly>rcam: Do you own a hardware store or something?\
01:01<dopez>to me an old machine is anything that doesnt run linux ;)
01:01<rcam>I am the CEO of RCAM Games at UNiversal Studios in Orlando, FL.
01:02<davatar>knight-: well, in general..... system disk, and the raid5..
01:02<knight->davatar but how are you enabling caching?
01:02<knight->rcam, what is rcam games?
01:03<davatar>knight-, afaik you _can't disable_ cache under linux.. type "free"
01:03<knight->indeed
01:03<billytwowilly>rcam: Ooh, you would be a good guy to talk to about getting me a summer job at a financial institution;)
01:03<knight->i thought you were doing some kind of additional caching
01:03<billytwowilly>I'm a second year econ student at the University of Alberta.
01:05<rcam>Maybe so.
01:06<davatar>aren't they shipping pretty much all of that overseas, except for bank tellers? :p
01:06<rcam>knight- Sorry missed your question... We are a commercial game dev company.
01:06<knight->rcam, any titles in particular I might recognize?
01:06<billytwowilly>Although I'm up in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and you probably don't like to do favors for people you meet in chat rooms;)
01:06<rcam>davatar Yeah actully.
01:07<rcam>knight- Nah.
01:07<rcam>Just a few little ones... Like Q3, CS, HL, and so on.
01:07<knight->uhm, HL was written by Valve.
01:08<knight->same with CS.
01:08<rcam>Yes it was... We worked as a contractor.
01:08<knight->Gotcha
01:08<knight->What did you guys do smpecifically
01:08<rcam>On CS most of the work was outsourced.
01:08<rcam>It varied... Basicly whatever Valve wanted...
01:08<rcam>In the end we did a lot of engine coding and created the first stand alone version of Counter Strike.
01:09<knight->cool
01:09<billytwowilly>rcam: Thanks for helping me waste a significant portion of highschool;)
01:09<rcam>Yeah.
01:10<rcam>billytwowilly, We try.
01:10<rcam>We are working on the Phantom game console now.
01:10<billytwowilly>phantom game console?
01:10<dopez>hehe
01:10<rcam>www.phantom.net
01:10<rcam>Its sweet contrary to some of the early press.
01:11<knight->rcam, arent you worried about competition with other consoles?
01:11<rcam>People are going to go nutts once they play it... It owns Xbox and PS2.
01:11<rcam>knight- Not at all.
01:11<knight->Really?
01:11<rcam>Yes.
01:11<knight->What's the initial price?
01:11<rcam>Street price will be $299
01:12<knight->not bad
01:12<rcam>There are 5 in the world right now... I have one sitting here. The Gen1 Proytostypes are about 50% bigger then the production unit, but its an awsome distro model.
01:12<billytwowilly>hurray, something to try out mmsclient on.
01:12<rcam>Everything via high speed internet.
01:13<rcam>Using the same protection banks use on thier harddrives.
01:13<dopez>hm, 'high speed' can mean anything :)
01:13<knight->what kind of protection is that?
01:13<rcam>I mean ISDN or above.
01:14-!-robbie [~rob@ESS-p-144-138-94-106.mega.tmns.net.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:14<billytwowilly>so you wouldn't go out and buy the games? You would pay a monthly subscription fee or something? or you mean that all the games will be networked?
01:14<rcam>AEM? Wrong initials but close.
01:14<rcam>I mean you dont go out and buy games.
01:15<knight->rcam, is valve's Steam competition? or have you licensed their software?
01:15<rcam>Competition... But different market...
01:15<rcam>This is a game console.
01:15<rcam>Its for the living room... not computer room.
01:15<dopez>i doubt steam is alive in a few years (from what i've heard of ppl using it)
01:15<rcam>You pay a monthly fee for game demos, short movies, and betas. You pay full price for full games and movies which are downloaded.
01:16<knight->Steam works great for me
01:16<knight->sure beats having to manually download patches, etc
01:16<rcam>dopez Steam is plauged by bad code and lack of content.
01:16<rcam>knight- If the auto update does not screw your install its great :)
01:16<billytwowilly>rcam: So you don't get any actual media AND the thing uses up your monthly bandwidth allocation?
01:16<knight->I get game demos, movies, betas, patches, maps, etc on Xbox Live
01:17<rcam>billytwowilly, Most people don't have limits.
01:17<rcam>knight- Remember you also pay for XBox Live.
01:17<dopez>from what i've heard steam is way too buggy to be taken serious
01:17<rcam>dopez, That is ture.
01:17<rcam>true*
01:17<knight->and I'll also have to pay for this console wont i?
01:17<billytwowilly>rcam: They do, they just don't know it;) My service plan up here is supposedly unlimited, but if you do more than 30 gigs a month then they phone you.
01:17<rcam>Arg I just got home from the hospitial a few days ago and am still out of it.
01:18<davatar>"apt-get update xmltv" screwed my fedora rpmdb.. just like it did my rh9 rpmdb, before I reinstalled. anyone else experience this?
01:18<rcam>knight- Yes just like everything else.
01:18<billytwowilly>I still don't like the idea of not getting any physical media. If I buy an xbox game I can sell it and make back part of the money I invested in the title.
01:18<knight->Indeed
01:18<rcam>billytwowilly Whats nice is you get constant seamless updates to your games.
01:18<rcam>Including updated content etc.
01:19<rcam>Of cource we all know execlusive titles are what sell consoles... So Infinium Labs and RCAM Games have that covered.
01:19<knight->rcam, when does the console go into production?
01:19<billytwowilly>rcam: I also don't like that. It supports the mentality of getting the game to market and fixing it later.
01:19<rcam>It will hit the market in 2004. I cannot say an exact date.
01:20<rcam>billytwowilly We have a quality assurance test it must go though.
01:20<rcam>billytwowilly You will still get console quality games.
01:20<rcam>No random crashs etc like with PC games.
01:20<dopez>hm, that would be something new ;)
01:20<rcam>Yeah.
01:21<knight->How do we know that'll be followed 1 year after the consoles are out?
01:21<knight->:)
01:21<dopez>but very welcome tho, even tho i hardly play games anymore
01:21<knight->investors may say "hey pull back on the testing"
01:21<knight->all big business cheats to save the bottom line
01:21<rcam>You have faith :) Seriously you must look at the history to prove it to yourself.
01:21<billytwowilly>well, It'll be interesting to see how it goes. I personally don't think it will take off. for the above mentioned reasons. How big is the hard drive?
01:21<knight->I think it would take off.
01:22<rcam>80 - 120 - or 300
01:22<knight->Steam has been a huge success even though people think it's failed.
01:22<rcam>knight- You would be right.
01:22<rcam>:)
01:22<knight->Xbox+Steam would be very powerful.
01:22<knight->And that's exactly what this is.
01:22<rcam>Yes it is.
01:23<rcam>And more powerful hardware.
01:23<knight->rcam, I sure hope you'll release the ability to locally proxy :)
01:23<rcam>O we will.
01:23<dopez>as long as idsoftware still releases linux clients for there games i dont care too much :)
01:23<knight->i.e. if you have 2 or more consoles on the network, let them share the same cache downloads
01:23<knight->rather than have to redownload streams over and over and over
01:23<billytwowilly>knight-: Maybe the used game community isn't as big where you are. Up here it's pretty huge.
01:23<rcam>knight- That would present some sequrity issues.
01:24<knight->I live in the Bay Area. We're all rich and we can all afford 10 computers per household and 3 consoles.
01:24<knight->rcam, why is that?
01:24<rcam>Hehe.
01:24<knight->well i see
01:24<knight->however
01:24<rcam>knight- People could make attempts to trick the client into accepting the wrong data.
01:24<rcam>Its not worth the risk.
01:24<knight->there's gotta be a way to help combine traffic
01:24<knight->yep
01:25<knight->3 consoles could quite possibly leech up the bandwidth on a dsl for updates
01:25<knight->etc
01:25<knight->you know, you could sell add on devices
01:25<knight->that sit on the lan
01:25<rcam>How many of you have limits on your data transfer?
01:26<knight->that get detected by the consoles by zeroconf/Rendevouz
01:26<rcam>sell add?
01:26<rcam>You guys are more then welcome to send me your ideas. ryan
01:26<rcam>ryan@rcam.ws
01:27<rcam>As long as you don't mind us using them.
01:29<billytwowilly>rcam: Have you guys done any research into broadband in the US? I'm pretty sure the situation is better up here in Canada and we have limits, although they are mentioned as "reasonable usage" in the contract we sign.
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01:30<billytwowilly>it's around 30 gigs/month and then they call you.
01:30<rcam>billytwowilly I am sure IL has.
01:31<rcam>billytwowilly We are doing the UI, OS, hardware desgin, and SDK.
01:31<rcam>design*
01:33<billytwowilly>So you might be screwed for downloading games to the machine... My ideal console would have a dvd burner built in and the ability to buy the game on dvd, stick it in the console and then have the console copy it to the hard drive and destroy the dvd.. then you could burn it back to a dvdr and have it remove itself from the console. That way you could still sell used games and you wouldn't alienate the game rental business.
01:33<billytwowilly>of course, that'd be next version if you ever did it because dvd burners are too expensive right now.
01:33<billytwowilly>Then again I might just be crazy;)
01:34<knight->rcam, I will preregister
01:34<rcam>Great!
01:35<rcam>Don't assosiate retail cost with our cost.
01:35<rcam>They are nothing alike for price and demand mean nothing.
01:35<billytwowilly>rcam: Was that directed at me?
01:36<rcam>Yes sir it was.
01:36<billytwowilly>heh, I like the specs;) everything's going to be soldered down eh? I won't be able to pull the thing open and salvage all that choice hardware??;)
01:36<rcam>So is this -===>*
01:37<billytwowilly>rcam: So you're saying that my idea is feasible?
01:38<rcam>In concept.
01:38<billytwowilly>hehehe. I'm not entirely sure what that is;)
01:38<rcam>But when it comes to security it does not work.
01:38<rcam>Dvds can be copied.
01:38<rcam>Look as DeCss... noone thought it would be broken.
01:39<beau>there without realtime communication (and even then) you have no mechanism to copy protect media
01:39<billytwowilly>that was what? a 40 byte key?
01:39<knight->Security is really all just an illusion.
01:39<billytwowilly>I think lots of the linux community was expecting decss to be broken.
01:40<billytwowilly>It was ridiculously insecure encryption because of the US encryption export controls.
01:40<rcam>knight- Data must be avalible in some way... Until we have opticial computing.
01:41<knight->indeed, and even then, i bet there's a hack that hasnt been designed yet
01:41<davatar>trying to prevent something from being copied that was invented TO BE copied... talk about backwards ideas....
01:41<beau>optical computing is just another digital medium, perhaps easier to copy
01:41<rcam>For opticial it will be hard. Its analog :|
01:41<billytwowilly>Also, decss was cracked because of sloppyness on the part of one software maker. They didn't encrypt their key.
01:42<rcam>I just talked to the guy that cracked the CD protection... They were suing him for breaking thier encryption... All he did was hit the shift key!!!
01:42<rcam>He explained why it worked... But how stupid do you have to be!
01:42<billytwowilly>rcam: and you have everything setup and connecting to a central server right? it'd be very easy to stop copying then. You just associate a unique ID with every copy of the game that is purchased. No unique ID, or an ID that is registered to another user and your copy of the game doesn't work.
01:43<knight->rcam, all it requires is a shift of thinking (for the analog hacking)
01:43<rcam>billytwowilly Its all over the net.
01:43<rcam>So yes.
01:43<rcam>knight- Hehe.
01:43<knight->eventually, when optical computing becomes common place, we'll have already paradigm shifted from where we are today
01:44<knight->thoughts of security will shift again
01:44<rcam>Its nice to see some activity in Myth. I would like to get invloved but have to idea what to do.
01:44<billytwowilly>rcam: you said you can't code right? I think a theme would be a good idea.
01:45<billytwowilly>Or perhaps troll the mailing list archives and add more stuff to the documentation.
01:45<rcam>billytwowilly MY coding skills are ok.
01:45<rcam>But not good enough these days to work on anything like Myth.
01:45<billytwowilly>rcam: How old are you out of curiousity?
01:46<rcam>This is the question I get most...
01:46<billytwowilly>heh.
01:46<rcam>I just did an interview with Radio Disney on this infact...
01:46<rcam>It freaks people out...
01:46<rcam>15
01:46<dopez>hehe
01:46<billytwowilly>heh.
01:46<rcam>Yeah.
01:47<beau>foodtv covers the most bizarre shit
01:47<rcam>I did Fox News International a few years back... It really scared people.
01:47<rcam>I never imagined that I would be running a game company at Universal by age 15.
01:47<rcam>But one thing led to another,.
01:47<rcam>At this point I don't think I feel so young.
01:48<billytwowilly>I call bullshit. You're not old enough to be held legally liable for any bad decisions you make.
01:48<dopez>hmm, at 15 i was only thinking of drugs alcohol and getting out of school :)
01:48<knight->you're 15?
01:48<rcam>billytwowilly But my legal staff is. And my father, Rick Pamplin, the film maker is.
01:48<rcam>knight- Your correct.
01:48<billytwowilly>therefore you can't be the ceo.
01:48<knight->I'm not sure how investors take you seriously.
01:48<rcam>billytwowilly There is no age requirement to hold a position.
01:49<rcam>knight- Because they meet with me... And understand that it does not matter.
01:49<knight->billytwowilly, Corporations are limited liability in most cases anyways.
01:49<bitbyte>altho you cant enter into a contract with a minor
01:49<rcam>If I can do it... and I am emotionally going on 30... what is the difference?
01:49<knight->The company itself is liable.
01:49<rcam>bitbyte, With a judges consent I can.
01:49<rcam>knight-, Thats correct.
01:50<beau>well a corp itself is, but most other business instruments do not have a "veil"
01:50<beau>corps are equivalent to a human entity really, it's odd but cool
01:51<billytwowilly>So you were leading the work on a standalone version of CS when you were ten?
01:51<rcam>I don't think it limits me anymore... Infact it makes people more interested.
01:51<billytwowilly>Come on, that isn't even believable.
01:51<rcam>billytwowilly, Something like that. More along the lines of 10.5 or so.
01:51<rcam>I did no programming... I just ran the company. My title was Independant Team Lead.
01:52<knight->So, do you run the office and manage your team when you get out of school at 2:30pm?
01:52<rcam>I don't have school.
01:52<dopez>do schools end at 2:30 these days? :)
01:53<rcam>I am eating lunch then :)
01:53<beau>dopez: 7:30am til 3pm typically
01:53<knight->omg
01:53<dopez>i'm not even awake at that time :)
01:53<knight->who in their right mind would let a 10 year old manage a game development team on a major project?
01:53<rcam>Me ethier... I get up at about 9AM.
01:53<billytwowilly>right... if this was a movie this is where we would cut to a fat 42 year old guy with a beard sitting at an old computer wearing a t-shirt saying "I'm that 13 year old bukkake princess you cybered with last night"
01:53<rcam>dopez, Why not?
01:53<knight->Did you have an extensive background in game development management before 10?
01:53<dopez>rcam: no life ;
01:54<dopez>;)
01:54<davatar>school is for those who can't teach themselves, if you don't need it, better for you..
01:54<rcam>knight- I started a game revirew site when I was seven...
01:54<knight->billytwowilly, yeah he's the guy named "beth" in The Parlour
01:54<rcam>By accident really.
01:54<rcam>By age nine we turned it into a game development company.
01:54<knight->Dood, I'd really love to support you on this, I mean after all, I was programming in basic at 8, but crap, i couldnt even type.
01:55<rcam>Hehe.
01:55<dopez>i was programming basic at 8 too
01:55<rcam>I started young.. And I was lonely.
01:55<knight->Those were the days of hunt and peck.
01:55<dopez>(i loved my c64 :)
01:55<knight->me too
01:55<knight->my c64 was bad ass
01:55<billytwowilly>classic: http://ryanmpamplin.cjb.net/
01:55<knight->then i got a c128
01:55<rcam>People always ask if I am like some extrodinary mind but I don't think so. Be all you can be right?
01:56<rcam>billytwowilly O that.
01:56<dopez>i've gone from a c64 to ibm xt, and on with pc's
01:56<knight->my first computer was a trash 80
01:56<dopez>heh, i still have a tsr80
01:56<knight->you should send me it :)
01:56<knight->i miss mine
01:56<dopez>hehe
01:57<dopez>im not sure where it is, i have way too much hardware stacked up here
01:57<rcam>So does Myth crash much?
01:58<knight->all the time
01:58<billytwowilly>rcam: I've never had it crash. in knoppmyth
01:58<beau>rcam: about once in... 30 days or so
01:58<rcam>Nice.
01:58<beau>one of the most helpful things is to feed it a clean signal
01:59<rcam>As in cable?
01:59<beau>and try to find driver base that is at a solid point.. if you follow the cvs all the time you will sacrifice stability
01:59<rcam>Once it works I will stick with it.
02:00<rcam>billytwowilly Do you have the ISO?
02:00<beau>cable would be ok probably, an 866Mhz modern cable for sure. I use sat which is very similar.. the reciever seems to always output something clean, even if it's black-screen while the buffer is filled or the polarity/transponder is tuned/output.
02:00<rcam>I am downloading it from the bit torrent and its taking forever.
02:01<rcam>I was thinking of getting a Direct TV satalite and a DVB card with a card slot.
02:01<beau>I really look forward to a 2.6 kernel and myth and ivtv built all on that platform, right now lots of stuff is pending
02:01<billytwowilly>do you have bit torrent setup properly to upload as well?
02:01<rcam>O yes.
02:01<rcam>Always.
02:01<beau>yeah directivo would be good for pure hacking fun
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02:02<dopez>2.6 kernel and mythtv worked fine here, never tried with the ivtv drivers tho..
02:02<rcam>beau Not Tivo... the DVB card replaces your Tivo.
02:02<billytwowilly>then I can't really help you.. hey, one way you could help mythtv out is by mirroring knoppmyth.
02:02<beau>yeah a dvb card would be great
02:02<beau>dopez: thanks for the words of encouragement. I'm building the 2.6.beta10 now
02:03<rcam>Is the support good for DVB?
02:03<rcam>2.6.beta10 Is the last kernel Linus released.
02:03<beau>which aspect of it? there is only about 4 cards out there total. The only common one is the hauppague card
02:03<dopez>beau: if your using a bttv card i wouldnt expect any trouble, not sure about the ivtv drivers tho
02:04<rcam>Is it supported? Does it act as the DTV Box?
02:04<beau>dopez: yeah cool, so provided I can get msp3400.o and ivtv.o I should be fine
02:04<dopez>i'd think so
02:04<beau>rcam: no hands on experience, buy one and come back to let me know
02:04<rcam>Hah.
02:04<beau>I almost bought one
02:04<rcam>Which one should I buy?
02:05<beau>but the hauppauge pvr350 seemed a more solid bet since a driver project was underway
02:05<beau>rcam: first, find a card that has a driver and does dvb.. the first condition may not be something you can satisfy unless the dvb card can be talked to via the bttv driver
02:05<rcam>I guess I will just stick witht he pvr350s.
02:06<beau>the day I can pull down dishnetwork on a dvb card in my pc, I will be in hog heaven, even moreso if it's hdtv
02:06<rcam>I head that can be done now.
02:06<rcam>heard*
02:07<beau>tell me how
02:07<rcam>I will have to remember who I talked to.
02:07<rcam>I need to come up with a better idea for a Theme.
02:07<beau>I find it hard to get excited about a theme
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02:08<rcam>Why is that?
02:09<rcam>beau ^
02:09<beau>I'm just more practical in my nature.. It can look like a steaming pile of shit as long as it works solid
02:09<rcam>I find most of the "open" community feels that way.
02:10<beau>While I'd rather drive a nice sports car, if I need to get A-->B I can drive a '77 Buick Roadmaster with wood panelling too.
02:10<rcam>Though I like eyecandy too.
02:10<rcam>Hehe.
02:12<rcam>Why did they start Freevo with MythTV already around?
02:13<beau>why did bavarian motorwerks sell "cars" in the US when GM and Ford was arround?... Difference of oppinion makes the world go 'round
02:14<rcam>I know that... But in this case it makes little since.
02:14<rcam>sense*
02:14<rcam>I know they had there reasons... But no one seems to know them
02:15<billytwowilly>I think freevo was around first.
02:15<rcam>billytwowilly Really? Huh.
02:15<ChaosExiguum>its a lot more stable
02:15<ChaosExiguum>and mature
02:15<rcam>FreeVO?
02:16<ChaosExiguum>yea
02:16<billytwowilly>I heard about freevo way before I heard about mythtv.
02:16<rcam>Hmm...
02:16<rcam>But FreeVO lacks so many features.
02:16<rcam>Its userbase is not very big ethier.
02:16<rcam>You cannot even pause in freevo.
02:17<billytwowilly>yah, but it was a step up from openpvr, which is what I knew about previous to freevo.
02:17<ChaosExiguum>it also requires a lot less horsepower than myth
02:18<rcam>Thats nice.
02:18<ChaosExiguum>i think the freevo people are more looking for a media box/vcr replacement
02:18<ChaosExiguum>where as myth is a pvr replacement/convergence box
02:21<ChaosExiguum>and on that thought, good night
02:23<rcam>Night man.
02:23<dopez>nn
02:24<billytwowilly>night
02:25<beau>g'night chaosexiguum
02:29<rcam>So any ideas for the theme?
02:30<dopez>dont use bright colors :)
02:30<beau>how about streaming porn, skinned onto the window trimming
02:30<dopez>beau: that might work :)
02:30<rcam>Hehe.
02:30<rcam>I want to create something for the mainstream site.
02:31<beau>ok, then how about... candy apple red and chrome with leather accents?
02:31<rcam>Really?
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02:32<dopez>allmost sounds like we're talking about a car :)
02:32<beau>call it corvette
02:32<dopez>indeed
02:32<rcam>I wash thinking Viper.
02:32<rcam>Blue with white stripes.
02:32<rcam>Maybe in various colors.
02:32<beau>that would be royale metalic blue and silver with cream accents
02:32<dopez>hmm, too viper, the blue and white
02:33<dopez>i'd like the mustang
02:33<rcam>Maybe I should do various car themes.
02:33<beau>and see.. this is how freevo gets support
02:33<dopez>hehe
02:33<beau>all sorts of opinions on what is "best"
02:33<rcam>It would be awsome if the car was where the TV is and it was slowly rotating.
02:33<dopez>rcam: the car themes might work
02:34<beau>allow me to share with you all that BLT is food of the gods.. dayam this is a tasty sammich
02:34<beau>you could blatently rip off Need For Speed Models
02:34<rcam>Haha.
02:35<rcam>Or just use legal ones.
02:35<beau>or that
02:35<beau>in fact all the car designs need to be licensed since they are property of the designers and manuf.
02:36<rcam>Yes and no...
02:36<rcam>I will have to check with my legal department.
02:36<beau>go for it
02:36<rcam>I think they will say as long as we don't use the names of the cars we will be ok.
02:37<rcam>But I like the idea of leather and smoothed bubble looking textures.
02:37<rcam>And Chrome.
02:39<rcam>I need a more clear idea.
02:39<rcam>I will ponder.
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02:40<beau>do "poisonous snakes" a'la Crocodile Hunter.. vibrant colors.. lots of variety, and who doesn't like snakes.. and... orchids.. snakes and orchids.
02:41<rcam>I don't :|
02:42<rcam>It could always be candy :)
02:42<beau>ok.. s/snakes/candy/
02:43<rcam>Man its almost 3AM wow.
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02:43<beau>you can do it
02:43<dopez>wow, its allmost 9am here :)
02:43<rcam>I got up late.
02:43<beau>start with the tequilla now.. it will power you through the single digits
02:43<dopez>damn, and i still need to sleep ;(
02:44<beau>oh, you'll sleep
02:44<beau>just maybe you won't go to work
02:44<beau>it's almost thanksgiving if you're in the US
02:44<beau>so.. it's not like tues/wed. are "big days" for most people
02:44<dopez>that wouldnt be a problem, just the waking up part..
02:45<beau>amen
02:45<dopez>here in holland i doubt they do the thanksgiving thing
02:45<rcam>I took the week off... I had my apendix out Friday so.
02:45<beau>ahhhh .nl
02:45<dopez>.nl idd ;)
02:45<dopez>i should get a bouner ;)
02:45<dopez>bouncer even..
02:45<beau>well tell them all to piss off and that you're celebrating Thanksgiving in honor of America.
02:46<dopez>hehe, i'm not that fond of the us-way
02:46<beau>no, I didn't think you would be.. but I can poke fun at us too
02:46<dopez>(i do like the language)
02:46<rcam>dopez, Why is that?
02:46<beau>I wish I could remember *ANY* of the dutch I learned 2 years ago
02:46<dopez>rcam: one word, bush..
02:47<dopez>beau: you dont have too, everyone in holland understands english
02:47<beau>dopez: yeah I spent 3 weeks there in 99
02:47<beau>loved it
02:47<rcam>dopez No only do we have Bush running the country... But a Dick and a Colan as well.
02:47<dopez>holland isnt that bad tho
02:47<dopez>rcam: hehe
02:48<rcam>I like Bush.
02:48<beau>you'd think with Dick and Bush we could at least fuck up in style... but no.
02:48<rcam>Lol.
02:48<dopez>haha
02:48<dopez>i liked clinton
02:48<dopez>at least he gone out with style
02:48<rcam>lol
02:48<beau>clinton made our foreign policy into a shambles
02:49<dopez>hehe
02:49<beau>I don't mind that he was getting some on the side.. what politician doesn't? But it was a huge waste of time here in the US
02:50<dopez>well, i guess that was true, but at least he didnt start a war etc..
02:50<dopez>(note, i dont know anything about it all tho)
02:50<dopez>and this is really not the channel to chat about it :)
02:51<beau>bush is a war monger to be certain, but I have lost no love for iran/iraq/saudi arabia/syria
02:51<beau>true.. /me clams up
02:51<rcam> /join #iraq
02:52<dopez>im not a fan of those country's myselfs too
02:52<dopez>(those ppl need to 'grow up' so to speak, but that just my opinion..
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03:08<billytwowilly>rcam: Still around?
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03:26<rcam>Darn
03:26<rcam>Now I am.
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03:28<dopez>but noone else is :)
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03:47<rcam>So you guys want a dark interface?
03:49<dopez>dark sounds good
03:49<rcam>How about a blue arura for the backround?
03:49<rcam>I just finished it in Photoshop.
03:49<rcam>Black clouds.
03:49<dopez>i prefer black backgrounds, with green text
03:50<dopez>(like my console :)
03:50<rcam>Green text would not work for this.
03:51<dopez>i dont have an opinion at the moment tho.
03:51<rcam>Why?
03:51<rcam>O...
03:52<rcam>Have not seen it right.
03:52* dopez had too much to drink..
03:52<rcam>lol
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04:40<rcam>hi
04:42<rcam>You know... An AMD64 bit version of MythTV would be very nice.
04:44<rcam>I would expect we would see an actual improvement with 64bit over 32bit versions.
04:44<knight->why cant you compile it on AMD 64?
04:44<rcam>Hi knight-
04:44<knight->hey rcam
04:45<rcam>knight- Myth does not have support for AMD64... You cannot just decide to compile with different headers.
04:45<rcam>I think its mainly because of the headers.
04:45<rcam>That way I can take advantage of my 64bit processors.
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04:46<rcam>How many minutes of video do you get per gig?
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04:51<rcam>That annoys me.
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04:54<rcam>Hey beau
04:54<rcam>Up already?
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05:22<Doukegata>out of curiosity, of those that have one, how many seconds does it take to change channels with the pvr-350?
05:24<bline>1.4 maybe
05:25<Doukegata>ok, I wasn't sure if what I was experiencing was normal or not.
05:25<bline>normal
05:25<Doukegata>do you get a little bit of green and garbage on the right side of the screen, too?
05:25<bline>good thing I don't watch livetv with myth
05:26<bline>no
05:26<Doukegata>hmmm.
05:26<Doukegata>what res do you use?
05:26<bline>480x480 maybe
05:26<bline>do you mean recording or for the tv?
05:27<Doukegata>ah, I'm using 640x480
05:27<Doukegata>no I mean for livetv
05:27<Doukegata>seems to get worse with higher resolution
05:27<bline>so you mean the recording resolution
05:28<bline>could try a different driver and or firmware
05:29<bline>probably search the -dev and -users mailing list
05:29<Doukegata>yeah, i ahven't upgraded the firmware...
05:29<Doukegata>oh great... I changed the res, and now I get a black screen
05:29* Doukegata explodes
05:29<bline>I'm using an older driver because it _works_ now
05:30<Doukegata>which ver? I'm using the latest from axboe that's meant for mythtv .12
05:31<bline>I'm still using the version before the branch
05:31<bline>been too busy to upgrade and it works
05:37<Doukegata>well, that's reassuring... sort of.
05:38<Doukegata>not sure which version was before the "branch"
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05:45<Doukegata>ah, I figure out which one it is on my own. I'm betting it's the halloween release
05:45* Doukegata explodes: good night
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07:17<rcam>Finally! Burning KnopMyth now!!!
07:18<StuartL>Let me know what it's like... :)
07:18<rcam>Hey pal.
07:19<rcam>I never burn at more then 16x for I find the cds tend to fail at higher rates.
07:19<rcam>16x is plenty fast anyway.
07:19<rcam>I am waiting for my TV in card to come.
07:20<rcam>StuartL I have heard people saying that even the PVR350 has noise on the sides at times... Is that true?
07:21<rcam>My TV card will be here sometime today so :)
07:21<rcam>I am going to play with the OS anyway.
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07:29<rcam>How many minutes of data are in one gig in myth?
07:30<hadees>What do i need to do (programing wise) to get mythtv to react to TCP/IP
07:30<hadees>rcam: depends on what you encode to
07:31<rcam>explain please?
07:31<hadees>well mythtv can do mpeg2 and mpeg4
07:31<hadees>and the quality of each can be changed
07:32<rcam>Well from x to what x?
07:32<rcam>Between 1 hour and 10 or?
07:32<hadees>i get about a gig an hour i guess
07:32<hadees>and i consider that watchable
07:33<hadees>oh a gig an hour with mpeg2
07:33<rcam>Good?
07:33<hadees>yeah real good quality
07:33<rcam>What input card?
07:33<hadees>hauppage 250, it is a hardware encoder
07:33<rcam>Thats right :)
07:33<rcam>So no lines like the pvr250 right
07:34<rcam>?
07:34<hadees>pvr250 is a hauppage 250
07:34<hadees>same card
07:34<rcam>O...
07:34<hadees>what do you mean lines?
07:34<rcam>I hear that it screws up.
07:34<rcam>Has lines on the sides
07:34<rcam>And such.
07:35<hadees>from who and where?
07:35<rcam>Just in here over time
07:35<rcam>.
07:35<rcam>Why... Do you beg to differ?
07:35<hadees>well currently it is the favorite card
07:35<hadees>if you have questions about it go to ivtv-dev
07:35<rcam>Better then the 350?
07:35<hadees>#ivtv-dev
07:36<hadees>the 350 and the 250 are the same
07:36<rcam>Really... hmm ok.
07:36<hadees>350 can just also decode mpeg 2
07:36<rcam>I see.
07:36<hadees>with the 250 your chip does it
07:37<rcam>Hardware is better.. I would imagine.
07:37<rcam>Right?
07:38<hadees>its prefrence really but i like hardware because hard drives are cheap now and my computer doesn't get really slow while recording
07:38<rcam>If I am running a dedicated AMD64 3400+ will I notice a slow down?
07:39<rcam>I might want to watch TV at the same time.
07:39<hadees>you need an input for each
07:39<hadees>so that would be two cards to watch tv and record
07:39<rcam>Right.
07:40<hadees>you probaly wouldn't but my problem was i wanted to do lots of things at once
07:40<rcam>I could always watch a recorded show while recording.
07:40<rcam>Thanks very much! I am going to go install now.
07:40<rcam>Bye.
07:40<hadees>bye
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08:16-!-Manta|Labs [~muffin@media01.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #mythtv
08:17<Manta|Labs>Anyone about who uses/has experience of PVR-250/350 cards?
08:17* StuartL raises hand tentatively.
08:17<StuartL>Not much experience (still installing atm) but some...
08:18<Manta|Labs>Well, I'm meant to be getting a signal from S-Video in
08:18<Manta|Labs>any way to test it, simply?
08:18<Manta|Labs>i was trying to use VideoLan
08:18<Manta|Labs>but it's not receiving anything on any inputs
08:18<Manta|Labs>any way to go directly from the PVR card?
08:18<Manta|Labs>dd ?
08:18<StuartL>The way I did it was by cat /dev/video0 > /tmp/capture.mpg
08:18<Manta|Labs>k
08:19<StuartL>But I had a few problems selecting the video standard and input before it worked.
08:19<Octane>yah what he said
08:19<StuartL>:)
08:19<Octane>make sure you set settings through test_ioctl
08:20<StuartL>Make sure you set the resolution/standard before selecting the input.
08:20<Manta|Labs>hmm
08:20<Manta|Labs>whenever I set with test_ioctl
08:20<Manta|Labs>it doesn't work
08:20<StuartL>And remove/insert the modules if you want to change the resolution/input.
08:20<StuartL>Erm.
08:20<StuartL>Remove the "/input" from the latter one.
08:22<Manta|Labs>is there a way to use dd to display it?
08:22<Manta|Labs>straight to the monitor
08:22<StuartL>Not as far as I know.
08:22<StuartL>I had a complete failure getting VLC to work.
08:23<Octane>StuartL you mean when calling the module?
08:23<StuartL>Though I understand you need V4L2 to get VLC to work.
08:23<Manta|Labs>VLC works but it's streaming "static"
08:23<Manta|Labs>(i.e. as tho it wasn't tuned to anything)
08:23<StuartL>Ah, okee.
08:23<Manta|Labs>on all inputs
08:23<Manta|Labs>i'm not sure if it's a) videolan not selecting input properly
08:23<StuartL>What video standard (NTSC/PAL/Secam) are you using?
08:23<Manta|Labs>or b) there's genuinely no correct input
08:23<Manta|Labs>should be pal, I thinkl
08:23<StuartL>Where are you?
08:24<Manta|Labs>UK :)
08:24<Manta|Labs>but the camera could be anything :)
08:24<StuartL>Camera?
08:24* Manta|Labs goes to try and find out
08:24<Octane>camera?
08:24<Manta|Labs>we have a webcam -> s-video in
08:24<Manta|Labs>well, a proper camera
08:24<Manta|Labs>not a webcam
08:24<Manta|Labs>but it's a camera
08:24<StuartL>Get a video player, cable feed or something to try it out.
08:24* Manta|Labs goes to find out what input type
08:24<StuartL>Get the input working first.
08:24<Manta|Labs>that's quite hard to do :O
08:25<StuartL>Where did you buy the camera?
08:29<Manta|Labs>It's a special industrial style camera
08:29<StuartL>So could be anything :)
08:29<StuartL>Try to find another video source...
08:29<StuartL>Something reliable that you know what it is.
08:29<Manta|Labs>Panasonic WV-CSR400 Composite Video Camera
08:30<Manta|Labs>a problem i'm having is
08:30<Manta|Labs>whenever I use test_ioctl
08:30<Manta|Labs>the card stops sending
08:31<Manta|Labs>I have to modprobe -r and modprobe ivtv again
08:31<Manta|Labs>any ideas? :)
08:34<StuartL>Sounds similar to the problems I was having.
08:34<Manta|Labs>hmm
08:34<Manta|Labs>I think I hadn't set it to PAL
08:34<Manta|Labs>so it defaulted to NTSC?
08:35<hadees>is there anyway to get nuvexport to be automatic or make a queue
08:35<hadees>so i don't have to sit there and type each one in
08:37-!-rcam [~rcam@73.155.33.65.cfl.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
08:37<rcam>Hello
08:38<rcam>I just installed KnopMyth! Its great but... I have not heard any sound... When I made my first attempt to make a sound, by playing an imported cd, it does not start counting time. Any idea why?
08:42<rcam>Also how do I update the guide manually?
08:45<o_cee>tried reading the documentation?
08:46<o_cee>did anyone try the new date stuff in mythweb cvs? doesn't seem to be working?
08:48<rcam>o_cee Support here seems to be easier.
08:48<rcam>When people respond.
08:49<o_cee>this IS no support channel.
08:50<rcam>Ok. I am here all the time.
08:50<rcam>When I need help people are here for me.
08:50<o_cee>still, it is not a support channel.
08:51<o_cee>and you just joined, can't see how that's "I'm here all the time."
08:51<o_cee>why did you CTCP VERSION me?
08:51-!-dja [~alden@zaphod.math.ohio-state.edu] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
08:51<rcam>Wanted to know what you were using.
08:51<o_cee>right, don't do it again.
08:53<o_cee>you are beeing very annoying.
08:53<rcam>Stop trying to fight with me... I am not going to do so.
08:53<o_cee>do what?
08:53<o_cee>stop?
08:55-!-beau [~beau@adsl-66-127-112-63.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #mythtv
08:56<rcam>beau Good.
08:56<rcam>beau Hows it going?
08:56<StuartL>o_O
08:57<rcam>StuartL Hey bud...
08:57<rcam>I installed KnopMyth.
08:57<StuartL>And...
08:57<StuartL>No sound?
08:57<rcam>Its great... but.
08:57<rcam>Thats right,
08:57<rcam>as far as I can tell.
08:57<StuartL>What video capture card are you using?
08:57<o_cee>http://mysettopbox.tv/phpBB2/
08:57<rcam>I had sound on Mandrake...
08:57<o_cee>that's where you want to discuss this.
08:58* StuartL shrugs.
08:58<rcam>o_cee Are you cesman?
08:58<StuartL>Just being curious :P
08:58<rcam>StuartL no card yet...
08:58<o_cee>rcam: are you annoying?
08:58<rcam>StuartL I imported a cd... and it wont play.
08:58<rcam>I have no idea whats up?
08:58-!-dja [~alden@zaphod.math.ohio-state.edu] has joined #mythtv
08:59<o_cee>checking the logs never occoured to you?
08:59<StuartL>You'll have to find an IRC channel for KnopMyth to solve that one :)
08:59<o_cee>there's the forums
08:59<o_cee>use them
08:59<rcam>o_cee Instant results come from IRC. Not message boards.
09:00<StuartL>Message boards often have problems and solutions in their archives.
09:00<o_cee>this is the wrong channel.
09:00<rcam>I looked there.
09:00* StuartL points at o_cee.
09:00<rcam>And there is no channel for KnopMyth.
09:00<rcam>So.
09:00<StuartL>What he said.
09:00<o_cee>look in the friggin documentation
09:00<StuartL>We don't know.
09:00<rcam>o_cee It does not solve my problem.
09:00<StuartL>And it's the wrong place to get someone to look at your problem.
09:00<o_cee>it's up to you to solve your problems.
09:00<o_cee>exactly.
09:01<rcam>o_cee Why do you care so much about my problems?
09:01-!-Racer [~t@dslam1-176-59-62.adsl.zonnet.nl] has joined #mythtv
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09:03<rcam>Anyone use KnopMyth?
09:05<Racer>nope
09:05<rcam>Darn...
09:06<rcam>Well in MythTV when I try to play an audio cd it does not play.
09:07<Racer>:( No idea, sorry!
09:08<Racer>for me it works
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09:28-!-Ku-less [~nana@1Cust1.tnt1.farmland.in.da.uu.net] has joined #mythtv
09:29<Ku-less>I know this project doesn't cover xmltv, but I was wondering if anyone else was having problems with xmltv.
09:29<DogBoy>rcam, I am
09:29<Ku-less>Specifically, my problem is the following: "Parameterless "use IO" deprecated at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/XML/Writer.pm line 16
09:29<Ku-less>Undefined subroutine &main::say called at /usr/bin/tv_grab_na line 556."
09:29-!-warlord-afk is now known as warlord
09:29<DogBoy>what kind of soundcard are you using rcam
09:30<warlord>Ku-less: I just hand-modified XML/Writer.pm
09:30<Ku-less>warlord: To what?
09:30<warlord>but xmltv .23 is working just fine for me.
09:30<warlord>Ku-less: google for that error and you'll find some web pages that describe the problem
09:31<Ku-less>I did google for the error.
09:31<Ku-less>I didn't get any hits.
09:32<warlord>Then you're blind.
09:32<warlord>it's the first hit I get
09:32<warlord>what did you google for?
09:33<rcam>Hi
09:33<Ku-less>The second line.
09:33<warlord>try the first
09:34<Ku-less>That returns two hits.
09:34<warlord>try the first 4 words
09:34<warlord>without the quotes
09:39<Ku-less>Found some links that describe the problem.
09:40<warlord>when I searched for "parameterless use UI deprecated" the first link was the issue.
09:41<Ku-less>The issue is xmltv.
09:42<o_cee><warlord> but xmltv .23 is working just fine for me.
09:42* Ku-less upgrades.
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09:44<Ku-less>Upgrading to xmltv .23 didn't fix the problem. :/
09:45<warlord>Ku-less: which problem?
09:45<warlord>you have two of them above
09:45<Ku-less>The latter one. The former isn't a problem.
09:45-!-beau [~beau@adsl-66-127-112-63.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:45<Ku-less>The former will be a problem.
09:46<warlord>what version of perl?
09:46<Ku-less>5.8.0-r12 5.6.1-r3 5.8.1-r2
09:47<warlord>so you have three versions installed?!?
09:47<Ku-less>Seems so.
09:48<warlord>that sounds.... probelmatic
09:49<Ku-less>The only problem would be not having some packages not visible to certain versions.
09:49<Ku-less>err, scratch one not
09:50<warlord>but that's already the case.
09:50<warlord>what do you get from 'perl -v'?
09:51<Ku-less>"This is perl, v5.8.1 built for i686-linux ..."
09:51<warlord>Ok, then I think you can safely remove 5.6.1 and 5.8.0
09:52<Ku-less>How?
09:52<warlord>how did you install multiple versions?
09:52<Ku-less>emerge <some package>
09:53<warlord>well, do the gentoo reverse. I have no idea what it is -- I dont use gentoo
09:53<Ku-less>Far as I know, there isn't a reverse.
09:53<warlord>by reverse i meant "remove" or "uninstall"
09:54-!-bishop [~bishop@adsl-65-43-111-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #mythtv
09:55<Ku-less>Would help if perl actually told me what it was missing. :/
09:57<warlord>I have no clue. xmltv .23 worked just fine for me.
09:58<Ku-less>On a side note, what's with all the recording profiles in mythtv 0.12?
10:01<o_cee>Ku-less: what does emegrge search perl give you?
10:02<o_cee>check man emerge for some cleaning stuff.
10:03<o_cee>it's supposed to do that automatically you know
10:05-!-poo [~langfors@shields.experience.com] has joined #MythTV
10:06<Ku-less>How will cleaning help?
10:07-!-m0j0 [~m0j0@64.73.34.180] has joined #mythtv
10:08<warlord>it reduces one potential issue in the search for answers.
10:08<warlord>another possibility is that you have multiple versions of xmltv installed in different places.
10:09<Ku-less>The problem is, as a pretty obvious guess, that 5.8.1 can't see 5.8.0 packages.
10:09<Ku-less>xmltv has a lot of dependencies. So, the solution is to reemerge everything that's in 5.8.0 to have a copy in 5.8.1
10:10<Ku-less>If that doesn't work, I'll have to remember 5.8.1 and go back to using 5.8.0.
10:11<warlord>sounds like a plan.
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11:10-!-Ryan__ [~Ryan@73.155.33.65.cfl.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
11:10<Ryan__>All of a sudden Myth is giving me odd errors? Any help would be nice. Unable to connect to database!
11:10<Ryan__>Driver error was [1/-1]:
11:10<Ryan__>QMYSQL3: Unable to connect
11:10<Ryan__>Database error was:
11:10<Ryan__>Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)
11:12-!-Ryan__ is now known as RCAM_mythTV
11:14<o_cee>bjm here?
11:16<farce>RCAM_mythTV: is mysql running?
11:16<RCAM_mythTV>It was when I booted before... why would it not be now?
11:17<farce>could be because it's a shoddy pos
11:17<farce>try connecting from the command line
11:17<RCAM_mythTV>How?
11:18<farce>mysql -uroot -p
11:18<farce>enter your root pass
11:18<StuartL>mysql -u mysql -p mysqlpasswordgoeshere
11:18<farce>if that gives you a mysql> prompt
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11:18<farce>then it's good
11:18<StuartL>Erm, mythtv, I meant.
11:19-!-RCAM_mythTV [~Ryan@73.155.33.65.cfl.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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11:19<farce>guess he gave up
11:19<rcam>I am here.
11:20<rcam>farce I am here.
11:20<farce>oi
11:20<farce>did you log into mysql?
11:20<rcam>ERROR 2002
11:20<farce>what distribution are you running?
11:20<farce>or what OS
11:21<farce>well, whatever it is, try stopping/starting mysql service
11:21<rcam>Cant connect to local MYSQL server though socket /var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock
11:21-!-_Nero_ [~Nero__@mdobossy.student.Princeton.EDU] has joined #mythtv
11:21<rcam>I am using KnopMyt
11:21<rcam>I am using KnopMyth
11:21<farce>hrm. strange.
11:21<farce>i'd reboot
11:21<rcam>10-4
11:22<_Nero_>I think I may have finally gotten my system to be stable!! yay..
11:22<StuartL>_Nero_: You turned it off? :)
11:22<_Nero_>lol
11:22* StuartL mutters about Ciscos.
11:22<_Nero_>ok.. "More stable".. now it will stay up without freezing for longer than 5 minutes..
11:22<StuartL>\o/
11:22<StuartL>What was it?
11:22<_Nero_>redhat.. ;)
11:23<StuartL>And you fixed it by...?
11:23<_Nero_>I tried compiling the vanilla 2.4.22 kernel, with and without ACPI..
11:23<_Nero_>installing Mandrake..
11:23* StuartL laughs
11:23<StuartL>That'd do it :)
11:23<rcam>Eww... the new Mandrake blows.
11:23<rcam>9.2 is broken to bits.
11:23<_Nero_>well, I installed Mdk first, and it was totally unstable..
11:23<StuartL>I'm a Debian person myself but the Debian XFree86 autoconfig tends to break...
11:23<rcam>farce still not bootig
11:24<_Nero_>rcam- howso?? seems nice to me.. :)
11:24<StuartL>I don't run Linux Xfree86 (apart from Myth) so I avoid the problem :)
11:24<rcam>farce still not booting MythTV
11:24<StuartL>rcam: Where does it fail?
11:24<_Nero_>now I just need to get ivtv to do sound..
11:24<StuartL>Heh, the legendary problem :)
11:24<rcam>Same error.
11:24<_Nero_>that was the one thing that was working fine in RH.. heh..
11:24<rcam>I could always just reinstall lol.
11:25<StuartL>You could try starting mysql manually...
11:25<StuartL>And/or checking the syslog.
11:25<rcam>How?
11:25<_Nero_>any tips?? I think I am loading the right msp3400.. when I installed ivtv, it copied my old msp3400 to msp3400.o.old..
11:26<StuartL>rcam: Erm, you haven't checked any logging yet?
11:26<rcam>lol
11:26<rcam>no
11:26* StuartL slaps rcam
11:26<StuartL>You've been asking on this channel for help pretty much all day and you haven't even looked for the problem yourself?
11:27<rcam>No... that was another problem.
11:27<rcam>Fixed that..
11:27<rcam>Qsettings error creating /.qt
11:28<rcam>Then that same driver error
11:29<rcam>You know... It all started after i used apt-get
11:29-!-steelep [~signwatch@69.26.192.55] has joined #mythtv
11:33<farce>what did you apt-get updgrade ?
11:33<farce>er s/dg/g/
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11:50<_Nero_>damn.. once i get one thing working right, the other thing stops.. lol
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12:48<JonnyRo>hello
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13:00<o_cee>Chutt: i thought i'd do some stuff with the backend status page.. is that ok or are there patches waiting or something?
13:00<Chutt>not that i'm aware of
13:00<Chutt>ask rkulagow
13:01<JonnyRo>is there a way to duplicate the mythconverg recorded table on another system easily from within mysql?
13:01<o_cee>i will when i see him
13:01<Chutt>read the mysql docs
13:01<o_cee>just small fixes
13:01<o_cee>btw, there shouldn't be anything done about the appearance of the page? it's prefered to be that 'simple'?
13:02<Chutt>feel free to spruce it up as well
13:03<o_cee>cool. nothing as big as mythweb, but something minimalistic tastefull ;)
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13:12<o_cee>who did this stuff anyway?
13:13<o_cee> os << "<HTTP>\r\n" <-- there's no such tag in html?
13:14<Chutt>it's been touched by a number of people
13:15<o_cee>i'll try to get it xhtml validated
13:19<o_cee>btw... you don't have some kind of testapplication to test the qtlook.txt file? where you can see the different kind of elements and so on?
13:23<Chutt>nope
13:24<Chutt>all those values are standard qt theme color values
13:26<o_cee>allright.. if you're all bored someday it would be great to have such util when fiddling with it :)
13:27<o_cee>line 2515 of mainserver.cpp, dblock.unlock();, then it gets three values.. doesn't it need to close the connection after that?
13:29<Chutt>what connection?
13:30<o_cee>to the db?
13:30<o_cee>nevermind then :)
13:30<Chutt>did it open the db connection?
13:31<o_cee>it does mfdLastRunStatus = gContext->GetNumSetting("mythfilldatabaseLastRunStatus");
13:31<Chutt>yes, so?
13:31<o_cee>nevermind:)
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13:45<o_cee>Brett Lucey isn't here, right?
14:14-!-CyberKnet [blom@ip68-13-248-23.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #mythtv
14:14<CyberKnet>what a debacle this whole AVerMedia M179 has become.
14:16<bitbyte>how so
14:18<CyberKnet>Did you order?
14:18<CyberKnet>I have the names of 16 people who ordered from the first auction who have still not received their cards.
14:18<CyberKnet>Just from the MythTV-Users list.
14:19<CyberKnet>I suspect there were more on the list who just chose not to respond.
14:19<CyberKnet>But I have not heard from a single person having received a card yet.
14:19<Chutt>oh no, they're taking a little long to ship
14:19<Chutt>the world's going to end!
14:19<bitbyte>ahhh
14:19<CyberKnet>bleh
14:19<bitbyte>from avermedia? or ebay or somthing?
14:19<CyberKnet>AVerMedia
14:19<Chutt>you're getting the cards for half their retail
14:19<Chutt>i don't think anyone has any reason to complain.
14:20<bitbyte>why half retail? some group buy?
14:20<Chutt>they're discontinuing the card
14:20<CyberKnet>Chutt: if you get a burger from McDonalds that's been sitting there for an hour, do you not complain because it costs half the price of a burger from Lonestar??
14:20<Chutt>i don't eat at mcdonalds.
14:20<Chutt>i don't buy stuff from ebay, either.
14:21<CyberKnet>This is being shipped from aver direct.
14:21<Chutt>so?
14:21<Chutt>you bought it from ebay
14:22<CyberKnet>so? It's not like I twisted Aver's arm to get it. They agreed to sell, at set terms. And they've neglected to follow through on that. Why should it be different just because I didn't walk into a store?
14:22<Chutt>you didn't buy from aver.
14:22<Chutt>you bought from someone who works there's wife.
14:22<bitbyte>ahhh
14:22<CyberKnet>The wife was just the listing agent. The listing was on behalf of Aver
14:22<Chutt>how long would it take _you_ to ship out a few hundred cards if you had no consumer shipping department?
14:23<CyberKnet>I wager I wouldn't offer to ship them if I couldn't do it.
14:23<Chutt>i wager you need to learn a little patience.
14:24<CyberKnet>Noted.
14:24<Chutt>all the bitching on the mailing list was annoying, don't do it in here too.
14:25<CyberKnet>If you like.
14:26<CyberKnet>I'll make certain to respond to people individually when Grant gets back to me with the status of people's orders so that it doesn't go to the list again then.
14:32<bitbyte>ya, for half price, you cant gripe too hard. unless you don't get it at ALL
14:33<CyberKnet>anyway. we won't talk about that here any more.
14:34<Chutt>shoulda bought one from newegg when they were going for $35 if you really wanted one :p
14:35<bitbyte>hehe
14:35<bitbyte>neweeg ricks
14:35<bitbyte>ack
14:35<bitbyte>newegg rocks
14:35<bitbyte>:\
14:35<CyberKnet>I very much like newegg.
14:36<bitbyte>indeed
14:36<CyberKnet>Chutt: I would have even preferred $60 from newegg to ebay. I guess I didn't look hard enough. Live and learn.
14:36<bitbyte>i've bought a few things off ebay, makes me nervous everytime tho
14:36<bitbyte>no recourse
14:37<CyberKnet>Yeah. This is only the second thing I have gotten, and probably the last. Zipzoomfly and Newegg are so much nicer.
14:38<bitbyte>zipzoomfly? never seen that one
14:39<CyberKnet>GoogleGear renamed.
14:42<bitbyte>ah
14:43<CyberKnet>I've had good experiences with them.
14:43<CyberKnet>I got a 120GB 'cuda from them.
14:44<bitbyte>i'm still trying ot find an affordable box to use for muth with HD
14:44<bitbyte>uhhh.. Myth
14:44<CyberKnet>I got a used dual PIII 733 for $100
14:44* bitbyte makes a note to take typing lessons
14:44<bitbyte>i said HD
14:45<bitbyte>AITCH DEE
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14:45<bitbyte>:)
14:45<CyberKnet>My 120 was just under $100
14:45<bitbyte>that's not gonna ecode HD
14:45<bitbyte>decode
14:46<CyberKnet>that's not going to decode [hard drive|high definition]?
14:46<bitbyte>HDTV
14:46<CyberKnet>Hmmm... I don't have hdtv anyway. just regular analog cable.
14:47<CyberKnet>I'm hoping it can decode the 179 mpeg2
14:47<CyberKnet>but maybe it cant
14:47<CyberKnet>in which case, I'll get a celeron 2ghz
14:47<bitbyte>the pcHDTV card needs a miniimum p4 1.8ghz to decode. plus whatever you need for Myth
14:47<bitbyte>and other processes
14:47<CyberKnet>I'm going to run M179's
14:48<CyberKnet>equivalent to PVR-250's
14:48<bitbyte>my plan is for a pcHDTV card and a 350
14:48<CyberKnet>that would be a nice setup.
14:48<Chutt>i don't think the 350 will decode hd
14:48<CyberKnet>I had originally planned for a 250 and a 350
14:48<bitbyte>it wont
14:48<bitbyte>my tv out will be a vga converted signal
14:49<CyberKnet>that's what I run currently.
14:49<CyberKnet>a vga converted signal.
14:49<bitbyte>with component outs
14:49<bitbyte>so i can run 1080i
14:50<Chutt>then why spend the extra cash on the 350?
14:51<bitbyte>to be able to encode regular input
14:51<bitbyte>the pcHDTV is just for the HD content
14:51<o_cee>why not the 250 then?
14:51<bitbyte>perhaps
14:51<o_cee>perhaps?
14:51<CyberKnet>Chutt: Would I be correct in saying that a single PIII 733 Mhz cpu would have difficulty decoding MPEG2 and overlaying an OSD simultaneously?
14:51<Chutt>that's at least $50 :p
14:51<bitbyte>i forget what it was now, but i read something the 350 does better
14:51<Chutt>cyberknet, no, it should be fine
14:52<Chutt>as long as you don't go insane on the bitrates.
14:52<Chutt>and have xv support, of course
14:52<Chutt>bitbyte, it has a decoder/tv out, and a radio tuner. it's identical, otherwise.
14:52<CyberKnet>I'll have to look into the xv support.
14:52<Chutt>except that it's a larger card, and produces more heat.
14:52<bitbyte>chutt, ok, i had thought i read the encoder on the 350 was a diff chipset
14:52<bitbyte>and did a better job
14:53<Chutt>the firmware does all the encoding
14:53<bitbyte>ok
14:53<Chutt>and that's the same for both cards.
14:53<bitbyte>so a pcHDTV and a 250
14:53<bitbyte>but the 250 is the lesser factor, since the HDTV content is what takes the most juice to playback
14:54<Chutt>yup
14:54<bitbyte>more cpu yet if you want to timeshift
14:54<bitbyte>thats just playback of recorded content
14:54<bitbyte>from what i've read
14:54<Chutt>why would that be?
14:54<Chutt>it's essentially just dumping the stream to disk, after doing some extremely minimal processing on it.
14:55<bitbyte>encoding, not decoding
14:55<bitbyte>decoding it for playback is what takes all the cpu
14:55<bitbyte>it's mpeg2
14:55<Chutt>um
14:55<Chutt>i know what hd is.
14:55<Chutt>there's no encoding going on.
14:55<bitbyte>i know
14:56<Chutt>then what are you talking about?
14:56<bitbyte>i'm not talking about encoding,
14:56<bitbyte>playback
14:56<bitbyte>it's software decoding
14:56<Chutt>'more cpu yet if you want to timeshift'
14:56<bitbyte>according to the information i've gotten form the threads and from pchdtv, you need a minimum of 1.8ghz p4 to playback
14:56<bitbyte>right
14:57<bitbyte>1.8 to playback reocrded content only. if you want to pause live playback, it takes even more cpu
14:57<Chutt>since there is no encoding going on, timeshifting is identical to playback.
14:57<bitbyte>perhaps it's an io issue
14:57<bitbyte>i don't know
14:57<bitbyte>that's why i'm here
14:57<bitbyte>:)
14:57<bitbyte>this is the info i've gotten from the threads
15:02<bitbyte>got quiet
15:04<CyberKnet>I'm looking for whether my video card has XV support or not =)
15:04<CyberKnet>Google is my friend.
15:06<sfr_>did you try 'xvinfo'?
15:06<ChaosExiguum>does anyone know if there is a card that will recieve digital broadcast for playback on a pvr350?
15:06<CyberKnet>I would, but I'm at work, and the machine is down. But I'll keep that in mind, thanks.
15:17<ChaosExiguum>anyone know if there is a dvb card that will recieve directtv w/ a card?
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15:18<farce>ChaosExiguum: you mean w/o a receiver?
15:18<ChaosExiguum>correct
15:18<farce>that'd be nice =)
15:18<bitbyte>define what you mean by "digital"?
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15:19<ChaosExiguum>bitbyte, atsc
15:19<bitbyte>like 780?
15:19<bitbyte>you need to get an HD card then
15:19<ChaosExiguum>I was thinking 480
15:19<bitbyte>they arent tht expensive anymore
15:19<bitbyte>the pcHDTV card does atsc
15:19<ChaosExiguum>I dont think the pvr350 handles higher
15:20<bitbyte>so are you talking about capturing at a higher resolution and downconverting to be able to playback on the 350?
15:20<ChaosExiguum>that would be the ideal, if its possible
15:21<bitbyte>transcoding that video is gonna be resource intensive i would think
15:21<bitbyte>why do you want to play it on the 350?
15:21<farce>he wants a homebrew directv pvr
15:22<ChaosExiguum>I dont have an hdtv, and my mythbox is a 1ghz c3 :o)
15:23<ChaosExiguum>but the digital stations come in so much clearer :o)
15:24<bitbyte>you wanna have your cake and eat it too
15:24<ChaosExiguum>yup
15:24<bitbyte>i dont think you are going to like how long it takes to transcode that video down to something your tv can play
15:24<bitbyte>especially with a 1ghz cpu
15:24<bitbyte>i transcode stuff all the time ot author dvd's with, and my 2 ghz has to go for hours as it is
15:25<bitbyte>yours is a celery too, so it's even slower
15:25<ChaosExiguum>hehe, thats why I was hoping maybe there was a hardware solution that decoded the hd signal to 480i
15:25<bitbyte>no
15:25<bitbyte>HD is streamed directly to the disk
15:25<Kuwanger>Well. :(
15:25<bitbyte>it's already mpeg2
15:25<farce>ChaosExiguum: afaik you gotta have a receiver to get any direcTV chans, some dishnetwork chans (unencrypted) can be done tho
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15:25<Kuwanger>Trying to update to 5.8.1 didn't work.
15:26<bitbyte>he's talking HDTV, not Directv
15:26<ChaosExiguum>well I asked about both
15:26<bitbyte>off an antenna i'm guessing
15:26<bitbyte>oh sorry
15:26<farce><ChaosExiguum> anyone know if there is a dvb card that will recieve directtv w/ a card?
15:26<bitbyte>i only saw the digital one
15:26<bitbyte>i got disconencted in the middle of the convo even tho my bnc was still here
15:27<bitbyte>it doesn relay me everything said while i'm gone
15:27<ChaosExiguum>ahh
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15:28<bitbyte>anyhoe
15:29<bitbyte>you can capture the hd signal and watch it on your local machine
15:29<ChaosExiguum>that might be a solution, it'd be hd then as well
15:30<bitbyte>yes
15:30<bitbyte>still going to tak emore than 1ghz to playback tho
15:30<bitbyte>unless you have a hardware mpeg2 decoder
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15:31<ChaosExiguum>ive got a athlon 1800 w/ an nvidia card
15:31<bitbyte>athlon 1.8 isnt the same as a p4 1.8
15:32<bitbyte>according to the pcHDTV folks, you need at least 1.8 p4 to decode for playback
15:32<bitbyte>i don't own one yet, so i cant rally say either way
15:32<bitbyte>really
15:32<ChaosExiguum>well I've been looking at getting a 2.4 for a lowly $70, maybe thats the way to go :o)
15:33<bitbyte>2.4 what
15:33<ChaosExiguum>amd 2400+, sorry
15:33<bitbyte>isnt that a 1.6ghz cpu?
15:34<bitbyte>i wish amd would stop playing games
15:34<bitbyte>and just tell me what it is
15:34<ChaosExiguum>thats the fastest they make 'em at my fsb speed, no its a 2ghz I think
15:34<ChaosExiguum>truth is, my 1800+ benchmarks about the same as a p4 1.8
15:34<bitbyte>it's gotta be better than the 1ghz
15:34<bitbyte>hehe
15:35<bitbyte>eh, benchmarks don't tell the whole story
15:35<ChaosExiguum>I wonder if there is a linux driver for the wintv-d
15:35<bitbyte>i dont believe so
15:36<bitbyte>avs has a FAQ on hd cards
15:36<ChaosExiguum>too bad, it looks like it would be perfect, decodes hd to 480i in hardware, outputs svideo -> svideo in on 350 :o)
15:36<bitbyte>to my knowledge, the pcHDTV is the only HDTV card with linux drivers
15:36<ChaosExiguum>avs? do you have a url on hand?
15:37<bitbyte>i msg'ed it to you
15:37<bitbyte>dunno if they allow url's in here
15:37<ChaosExiguum>ahh, got it, thanks
15:37<bitbyte>not lookin ot piss anyone off
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16:20<Kuwanger>Okay, uh.."fixed" the &main::say issue..
16:21<Kuwanger>Now I'm getting "zap2it gave us a page with no service provider options
16:21<Kuwanger>check postal/zip code or www site (maybe they're down)"
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16:24<Chutt>you are not using the latest version of xmltv.
16:25<Kuwanger>0.5.23?
16:27<Chutt>yes.
16:27<Kuwanger>Installed.
16:27<Chutt>that doesn't have anything to do if you're using it or not.
16:27<Chutt>you likely have an older install somewhere.
16:28<Kuwanger>That might be it..
16:30<Kuwanger>Well, now I get another error..but it's a step up..
16:35<Kuwanger>'Can't locate object method "getProviderList" via package "XMLTV::ZapListings" at /usr/bin/tv_grab_na line 923.'
16:35<Chutt>yeah, you're still mixing and matching versions
16:38* Kuwanger isn't sure where.
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16:39<isaac_>why does changing channels take like 4 seconds? is this just due to not enough processing power or is this just how it works?
16:39<o_cee>search the archives
16:39<isaac_>will do
16:39<o_cee>been discussed... quite a bit
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16:39<bitbyte>typical of pvr's
16:40<bitbyte>live tv isnt really live
16:40<isaac_>bitbyte: i assumed.
16:40<isaac_>just wondering if i had something setup blatantly wrong or something
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16:40<isaac_>i'm getting a better switch to hopefully improve network thoroughput ;D
16:41<bitbyte>pvr's aren't really best suited for channel surfing
16:41<bitbyte>it's a common complaint even with tivo and replays
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16:41<isaac_>i assumed it was just due to having to stop encoding, switch channels on tuner, and begin encoding + sync again
16:42<bitbyte>well, it's also because it buffers
16:42<Kuwanger>Nah, that's just prebuffering.
16:42<Kuwanger>Wait until tv tuners can switch fast enough to prebuffer all channels necessary to remove the delay. :)
16:42<Kuwanger>Chutt: You were right. Old 5.6.1 was interfering somehow.
16:43<bitbyte>so if there's a 3 second buffer, you add that to the time it takes to change chans etc. i dont know that it actually uses a 3 second buffers, just an example
16:43<isaac_>oh, neat
16:43<isaac_>i didn't know it buffered
16:43<bitbyte>thats what i meant when i said live tv wasnt really live
16:43<bitbyte>it's like a 3 or 4 second delay
16:44<isaac_>neat :)
16:44<Kuwanger>Weird..it's claim version 0.5.4 :)
16:44<isaac_>hopefully better network hardware will stop some of the chopiness
16:44<isaac_>and i'll have a managed switch to play with. heh!
16:44<bitbyte>kuwanger, that would require huge amounts of disk space to buffer each and every channel at once
16:44<Kuwanger>bitbyte: Well, the other hack is to play while you're buffering.
16:45<bitbyte>they ar eplaying while buffering
16:45<bitbyte>it's a fifo buffer
16:45<Kuwanger>Not at the beginning.
16:45<bitbyte>or "spool"
16:45<bitbyte>heh
16:46<Kuwanger>Think of a history buffer.
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16:46<bitbyte>they run a few seconds behind
16:46<Kuwanger>You can still be live. You'd actually be playing non-encoded video if possible.
16:46<bitbyte>i'm not a developer, so i dont know why they choose the delay they choose
16:47<Kuwanger>It's just more complicated..
16:47<bitbyte>if you hav elive, then you' have to initiate e buffer when yo hit pause
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16:47<bitbyte>so everything you watch is recorded
16:47<bitbyte>to avoid that
16:47<Kuwanger>If you, for example, had a buffer underrun..
16:48<Kuwanger>Well, the "cheap" solution is to play it live and keep a back buffer. The second you pause or rewind, you skip out of "live" mode and use the buffer solely.
16:48<hadees>anyone know any place i can learn about bitrate, i am trying to convert my tv shows to divx with nuvexport but the quality sucks and i don't know what values to put in to get a watchable quality
16:48<Kuwanger>hadees: The higher the better. :)
16:49<Kuwanger>hadees: What resolution you using?
16:49<hadees>yeah but isn't incremental otherwise it doesn't look right
16:50<Kuwanger>Hmm?
16:51<hadees>here is what i got Audio bitrate 64, Video bitrate 256, Horizontal resolution 320, Vertical resolution 240
16:51<Kuwanger>64? Wow.
16:51<hadees>its the default
16:52<isaac_>does mythbackend log anything that would be printed on the console to /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log?
16:52<hadees>i am guessing i should really use 128
16:52<hadees>isaac_: not sure but it shouldn't be that hard to compare it
16:52<Kuwanger>Uh, audio bitrate is set by a quality slider..
16:52<Kuwanger>So, how do you know the bitrate?
16:53<Kuwanger>I'm quite surprised a 256 bitrate works well, though.
16:53<hadees>no quality slider this is a command line interface
16:53<hadees>kuwanger: it doesn't work well thats the problem
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16:53<isaac_>hadees: yeah, probably not. i'm just too lazy to kill it, heh.
16:53<hadees>everytime there is alot of motion i see all these blocks
16:54<Kuwanger>hadees: Hmm..don't use 256 bitrate. :)
16:54<hadees>i just switch windows back to the xterm i started it from
16:54* isaac_ food
16:54<hadees>should i double it? should i use 257
16:54<hadees>thats what i don't know
16:54<Kuwanger>Trial and error.
16:55<hadees>thats going to take for ever, there has to be a guide out there
16:55<Kuwanger>For 320x240 on just about anything, you want an output size around 300MB/hr.
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17:28<_Nero_>My video coming from ivtv has colored vertical banding in it.. any idea why this might happen?
17:30<Chutt>why would you ask here instead of the ivtv channel?
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17:32<hadees>_Nero_ check out the channel #ivtv_dev
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17:34<_Nero_>oops.. sorry about that.. I thought I was in the ivtv channel.
17:34<_Nero_>my bad.
17:35<_Nero_>(too many open channels, not enough screen space.. ;) )
17:36<warlord>get a bigger screen
17:36<warlord>(or use a smaller font.. or talk to fewer people..)
17:38<hadees>is there anyway to figure out the bitrate of a divx file?
17:39<warlord>sizeof(file)/lengthof(video)
17:44<hadees>hehe, i was kind of hoping for a already writen perl script, i really just need advice on what a good quality is from mpeg2
17:45<hadees>so if anyone uses nuvexport and has found a good mixture of quality and smallest file size...
17:45<Ku-less>hadees: mpeg2? I thought you were using divx.
17:46<hadees>i have a pvr250, so all my sources are mpeg2 i want to archive them in divx
17:47<Ku-less>Okay, just use half the size. :)
17:47<Ku-less>Well, assumping you're compressing the audio in mpeg 1 layer 2.
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18:01<ChaosExiguum>where look to find out what version if the ivtv driver is in sync with mythcvs tvout?
18:03<hadees>i would assume that if you got the latest cvs from both sources they are in sync
18:03<hadees>but don't quote me on that
18:03<ChaosExiguum>so would I, but the ivtv-ext-api.h files are different :-/
18:04<hadees>check out the channel #ivtv_dev
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18:06<Chutt>if they're different, you don't have latest cvs of something.
18:07<ChaosExiguum>hmm, I checked them out back to back, I'll try once more
18:08<Chutt>there's a couple comments different, of course
18:12<ChaosExiguum>'#define IVTV_IOC_GET_FB 0xFFEE7789' is only in myth
18:14<Chutt>you _do_ realize that ivtv-ext-api.h isn't directly used by the ivtv driver, correct?
18:14<Chutt>and that all those defines and structs are in driver/ivtv.h
18:14<ChaosExiguum>yes, and no I hadn't looked there
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18:26<ChaosExiguum>another question, when I go to the watch recording screen the theme elements are drawn, and then the frontend hangs, but mythweb works fine, and mysqlcheck okays
18:30<o_cee>Chutt: i've got something for you to look at, privmsg ok?
18:31<o_cee>maybe easier to email it to you
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18:33<ChaosExiguum>okie, I fixed the frontend hang
18:33<Pupeno>hello
18:34<Pupeno>can mythtv show DVD menues ?
18:34<o_cee>Chutt: just emailed you, would apreaciate if you could look at it.. going to bed very soon
18:34<Chutt>sure
18:34<o_cee>Pupeno: 1. this is no support chan. 2. myth doesn't play dvd's
18:34<Chutt>pupeno, for dvds, it just runs whatever dvd player program you tell it to
18:34<o_cee>defaults to mplayer
18:35<o_cee>and no, mplayer doesn't do menus i think
18:35<warlord>you could change it to ogle..
18:35<Pupeno>MythDVD just runs another player for DVD ?/
18:35<Pupeno>o_cee: no, mplayer can't, xine can.
18:35<warlord>Pupeno: correct
18:35<o_cee>then change your settings to use xine
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18:37<o_cee>right..
18:38<Chutt>o_cee, looks nice
18:39<o_cee>allright :) then i'll continue tomorrow or something
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18:39<o_cee>g'night!
18:39<warlord>see ya o_cee
18:43<ChaosExiguum>okay, I feel retarted now, somehow I got my mythtv user out of the video group, so they had no permissions to use the 350tvout
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19:06<davatar>damnit.. 'apt-get update xmltv' broke my rpmdb, AGAIN. someone else on here must have seen this happen.. or I have the worst luck ever.
19:07<ChaosExiguum>I have seen a few other people complain about it
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19:50<davatar>ChaosExiguum: hear of any fixes? I found redhat's recomended fix method, but rpm macros don't work as described (I think the instructions are for rh 7.x) http://www.ale.org/archive/ale/ale-2002-03/msg00063.html
19:54<hadees>in mythvideo to get two files to play back to back you add cd1 to it right?
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21:05<Netslayer>anyone use that new caller id feature here? wondering what the best/cheapest modem is
21:05<mikegrb>I use it but not for caller id
21:06<mikegrb>I'm using it for email notification
21:06<Netslayer>how does that work?
21:06<Netslayer>sounds cool
21:07<isaac_>caller feature?
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21:07<Netslayer>what linux mail program are you using? does it just send off a notification
21:07<isaac_>er, caller id feature?
21:07<Netslayer>http://www.gossamer-threads.com/perl/mailarc/gforum.cgi?post=91211;search_string=caller%20id;guest=1646807&t=search_engine#91211
21:07<Netslayer>it's in /mythtv/contrib/mythnotify
21:07<Netslayer>on cvs
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21:08<Netslayer>has caller id been around for a while on modems? i might have one around here that actually works
21:08<mikegrb>I have a perlscript called on my colo box
21:08<mikegrb>that sends the udp packet to router at home
21:08<Netslayer>wow
21:08<mikegrb>which forwards it to the broadcast address
21:09<Netslayer>so it tells you the subject and who sent it?
21:09<mikegrb> then any frontends runing get ut
21:09<mikegrb>yes
21:09<mikegrb>subject from and if it is for me or wife
21:09<Netslayer>so your box is running email software then?
21:09<mikegrb>I run my own email server
21:09<mikegrb>at huricane electric in california
21:10<mikegrb>it uses maildrop for delivery (kind of like procmail)
21:10<Netslayer>oh ic, ya i'm having a fun time trying to find a simple pop3 mail client in nux
21:10<mikegrb>maildrop sends a copy of the message to stdin on my perl script
21:10<mikegrb>mozilla has a client
21:10<mikegrb>and then there is evolution and kmail
21:10<isaac_>Netslayer: use fetchmail and a local mail queue
21:10<Netslayer>trying to stick with console
21:11<isaac_>that's what i use for everything
21:11<mikegrb>mutt will do it
21:11<mikegrb>I think pine even
21:11<isaac_>then you just run fetchmail, and then use mutt
21:11<mikegrb>try dotfiles.com
21:11<Netslayer>sweet thx
21:11<isaac_>and the best part is all your mail is on an imap server (assuming you run an imap mail queue) so you can use your mail from everywhere
21:11<mikegrb>yes
21:12<Netslayer>i don't think i watch enough tv right now, just record it all heh
21:13<Netslayer>that caller id is cool for the fam, i'm setting up a box in the other room with a wireless connection
21:13* Netslayer goes to find the pile of modems he has
21:13<isaac_>i want a rack :(
21:14<isaac_>heh, caller id. that's neat
21:14<isaac_>but lazy.
21:17<Netslayer>i have a ton of crap lying around: 5 nic cards (prob 2 work), two capture cards, a ton of broken cards (heh), scsi, sound, and only 56k modems that hook up on those amr slots oh well
21:19<isaac_>can i have your capture cards or scsi cards? :D
21:19<Netslayer>moving em to the new mythbox. scsi card is really old, don't even know how fast it is
21:19<Netslayer>i'd guess 10MB/s came with a scanner
21:19<Netslayer>isa heh
21:20<Netslayer>what i have an amr slot on my board, no way
21:21* Netslayer runs to check again to see if it's an amr modem
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21:25<Netslayer>heh i have one and it's unbelievably on sale on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3443409516&category=14925
21:25<Netslayer>prob doesn't support caller id hmm
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21:27<Netslayer>heh linux support and caller id support, damn i'm lucky
21:27* Netslayer doesn't want to reboot his server, it's been on for almost a month
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21:28<Netslayer>what a dilema
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21:45<isaac_>just hotswap
21:45<isaac_>and hope for the best
21:59<Netslayer>heh
21:59<Netslayer>ya like burning it out.. although i think i have another one here
21:59<Netslayer>it's not that big of a deal, just kill all my friends dling of me
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22:29<Ku-less>Well, I'm not sure for the exact cause, but if I press Z to skip commercials at just the right moment mythfrontend hangs. Hitting esc closes mythfrontend.
22:30<Ku-less>That right moment seems to be exactly right over the commercial checkpoint.
22:33<Netslayer>hmm that's not good
22:33<Netslayer>hey how stable is cvs these days? I'm using a pre12 cvs version, probably should upgrade
22:34<isaac_>heh, i can't get 0.12 or cvs to compile
22:34<isaac_>:(
22:34<Netslayer>if you really need help post your error to the mailing list
22:34<isaac_>and the debs are still 0.11
22:34<Netslayer>really huh
22:35<isaac_>Netslayer: yeah, but i think that's just a problem with my boxen.
22:37<Netslayer>who was at socal linux showing off mythtv? i missed it dang
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22:38* Ku-less should run mythfrontend in a terminal so he has some clue on if mythfrontend segfaults or not.
22:39<Ku-less>Race condition, probably.
22:39<Netslayer>good idea
22:49<schwin97> I compiled cvs a couple days ago with no problems
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22:52<paulc>I saw a post a few days back regarding a switch to the TV listings. I tried updating my perl modules but I get an error and not TV listings won't work. anyone have any suggestions?
22:54<Ku-less>paulc: Remove any old copies of xmltv.
22:54<Ku-less>paulc: That was my problem.
22:54<paulc>oh...but you need the latest version, right?
22:55<Ku-less>For NA listings.
22:59<paulc>ok, don't think that's my problem. When I'm in CPAN and try to update some of the packages, I get an error. I think perl CPAN has an error in it, again.
23:00<Ku-less>Oh, can't help you there. I used portage.
23:01<isaac_>paulc: apt-get install xmltv :D
23:02<paulc>It's already installed
23:02<paulc>so, I just re-installed to make sure
23:02<isaac_>that'll update it though.
23:02<paulc>it's already updated, but I did --reinstall just to cover
23:02<isaac_>heh. well.
23:02<isaac_>touche
23:03<paulc>now when I run setup in myth, which I've had working successfully before, and I go to video isources and put in my zip code, it doesn't find anything
23:04<paulc>I think this is a problem with the website changing format and my perl not updating the perl modules
23:04<isaac_>paulc: i think the modules don't really affect how xmltv parses the website
23:04<isaac_>but i might be wrong.
23:04<Ku-less>paulc: What's the error out of mythsetup?
23:05<isaac_>make double sure you don't have two different tv_grab_na binaries (ie updatedb && locate tv_grab_na)
23:05<paulc>no error, it just doesn't list any providers in the tv_grab_na_config section
23:05<Ku-less>paulc: Very weird.
23:05<paulc>ok, will do
23:06<paulc>If I go into CPAN and try install Video::Frequencies for example, it will end in an error. I've had this happen before but it got fixed in perl I believe
23:06<isaac_>why don't you use the .debs for perl modules?
23:07<paulc>I did
23:07<isaac_>oh
23:07<isaac_>heh
23:07<paulc>hold on, still doing updatedb
23:08<paulc>yeah, just one tv_grab
23:08<paulc>which package does that come in?
23:08<isaac_>xmltv
23:08<isaac_>i think xmltv may be a metapackage
23:08<paulc>aha xmltv-util
23:09<isaac_>apt-get install it :D
23:09<paulc>going...
23:09<paulc>nope...still no providers
23:10<isaac_>have you tried putting your zip into zap2it in a browser and seeing what it returns?
23:12<paulc>lots of stuff...I've had this working before. I think perl got updated somehow and now is screwing things up
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23:13<paulc>for example, I have XMLTV within the /usr/share/perl5 directory, but I have also two perls (5.8.1 and 5.8.2) under /usr/share/perl directory. I think my machine is using the 5.8.2. Does the perl5 directory do anything?
23:17<paulc>I guess it does. On Debian, the Zaplistings.pm is in the libxmltv-perl
23:17<paulc>it looks like Zaplistings.pm has to be updated
23:22<paulc>Yeah, ok, there is a fix for Zaplistings available on the myth mailing archive. I applied that fix and everything seems to be ok again. Thanks.
23:23<paulc>reference page is: http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2003-November/020713.html
23:23<paulc>g'nite
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23:23<linagee_>ut ohh. did xmltv break? i only have today and tomorrow in my TV database (been working fine since now)
23:24<davatar>I just did apt-get install xmltv on a brand new fedora install, hopelessly hosed the rpm db again. just a warning :)
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23:25<linagee_>davatar: what i meant was, is their web scraping script in xmltv borked
23:25<linagee_>(it's been working fine until now. didn't upgrade anything)
23:25<davatar>linagee_: Well I assumed you meant the actual program... I'm battling other demons here.
23:25<linagee_>i see
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23:33<hadees>can anyone recommend a good remote for mythtv?
23:38<davatar>hadees: I just got one of my old (well, just useless) vcr remotes and set it up :)
23:40<robbie_>the pvr350 remote isnt too bad
23:44<hadees>i want a remote that can do everything...
23:44<hadees>i really want netremote... i wish i was a better programer
23:45<hadees>i use the pvr250 grey remote i just feel like there arn't enough buttons and the volume buttons are also the arrows so it doesn't work so well as a myth remote
23:47<dopez>i like my pinnacle remote, it has allot of buttons, the bttv card itself sucks tho..
23:48<hadees>you see the remote that HP has for microsoft media edition, what do you think of them?
23:49<dopez>never seen that i think
---Logclosed Wed Nov 26 00:00:04 2003