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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-12-05

---Logopened Fri Dec 05 00:00:30 2003
00:04<topgun98>billytwowilly: well, that's not really an option for us due to physical limitations
00:05<topgun98>I don't really need to stream it anyway
00:05-!-robbie [~rob@ESS-p-144-138-96-18.mega.tmns.net.au] has joined #mythtv
00:11-!-Teflon [~rhooper@CPE00a0cc30463d-CM014110200038.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #mythtv
00:13* kvandivo wonders who is on right now.
00:15<dopez>i am, sorta..
00:15<topgun98>not I.
00:17-!-Oct [octane@dsl092-100-149.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #mythtv
00:17-!-Octane [octane@dsl092-100-149.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
00:17-!-Oct is now known as Octane
00:22<thor_>bah
00:24<kvandivo>do remoteutil functions _need_ QStringLists returned? What if I just want to fire and forget a command to the backend?
00:24<thor_>boy I hope that's not a question for me ?
00:26<kvandivo>i'll let anyone that wants to answer it answer it. :)
00:27<Chutt>kvandivo, naw, they don't need it, i just made most of em wait for a return
00:27<kvandivo>i'm not picky, as long as the answer is guaranteed to be correct
00:27<Chutt>and i only exported sendreceivestringlist =)
00:27<kvandivo>i'm adding a FORGET_RECORDING command and it doesn't really need to return anything
00:28<Chutt>eh, just make it be the same
00:28<Chutt>queries like that don't take that long
00:28<kvandivo>ok. can do.. i'll just send back an empty stringlist, then
00:28<Chutt>well, send back _something_
00:28<Chutt>'ok' or whatnot
00:29<kvandivo>fair enough.. how about zero, to indicate correctness. :)
00:29<kvandivo>i'll dig.. maybe i can uncover an error condition somewhere i can return non zero for.. ;)
00:29<Chutt>whatever, really
00:31-!-kro [~user@sdn-ap-025dcwashP0402.dialsprint.net] has joined #mythtv
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01:02<Chutt>xmltv is broken!@!
01:02<Chutt>wait!
01:02<Chutt>i know!
01:02<Chutt>i'll email the several thousand people on the mythtv lists!
01:02<Chutt>that'll get me an answer quicker than visiting the xmltv website!
01:02<ChaosExiguum>lol
01:02<dopez>sounds like a plan :)
01:02<thor_>0.5.23
01:03<thor_>it's in incoming
01:03<Chutt>they're up to .24 now :p
01:03<thor_>crap
01:03<Chutt>nothing to do with tv_grab_na, though
01:03<dopez>im still using 0.5.19 i think :)
01:03* thor_ thinks dopez is not in North America
01:03<ChaosExiguum>guessing your not in na then :o)
01:03<dopez>indeed
01:04<thor_>Can mythbackend be run on a system without kde?
01:04<thor_>I mean ...
01:05<thor_>how do you even begin?
01:05<ChaosExiguum>yea
01:05* thor_ sighs
01:05<thor_>... back to work
01:06<thor_>heh
01:07<thor_>this is hilarious --> http://www.sco.com/copyright/
01:07<thor_>(from /.)
01:08<thor_>and bad grammar to boot
01:10-!-vax is now known as vax_
01:11<robbie>i got a copy of sco server to take to linuxconf.au next year for a ritual burning
01:12<kvandivo>wow.. it violates the constitution.. you go, GPL!
01:15<thor_>Jefferson isn't rolling in his grave, he's just shaking his head from side to side and chuckling
01:16-!-burden [burden@2001:470:1f00:272:0:0:0:1] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
01:19<ChaosExiguum>gotta love sco, keeping that positive outlook :-P
01:26-!-cobryce [~brycec@ip68-99-209-169.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #mythtv
01:30<kvandivo>just got a 'select: Bad file descriptor' on frontend stdout at some point while watching a recording..
01:32-!-kro [~user@sdn-ap-025dcwashP0402.dialsprint.net] has quit [Client Quit]
01:36<Chutt>ah, just a warning to people using cvs
01:37<Chutt>i didn't test the change i just committed, so key bindings in video watching may be a tad broken
01:37<topgun98>heheh
01:37<kvandivo>ahh.. fair nuff..
01:37<thor_>heh
01:37<topgun98>what does Debian/unstable use?
01:38<topgun98>cvs snapshots?
01:38<Chutt>err
01:38<Chutt>in what respect?
01:38<thor_>eh?
01:38<topgun98>I meant, do they wait for a release, or use snapshots
01:38<Chutt>there aren't any mythtv packages in debian unstable.
01:38<topgun98>ahh, you're right
01:39-!-shamoun [~shamoun@c-24-10-37-99.client.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
01:40<thor_>Chutt, my current fix for "play child" in mythvideo is pretty weak, but to fix it properly, I need to change the table a bit ... which means I have to finally figure out how the automagic table updating is done ... what's the ETA on 0.13 (ie. how much time do I have) ?
01:41<Chutt>mid next week or so
01:41<thor_>k
01:42<Chutt>maybe a little earlier, maybe a little later
01:42<Chutt>i dunno
01:42<thor_>I'll try and deal with it this weekend (and play with the key bindings stuff)
01:43<Chutt>cool.
01:43<Netslayer>.13 is next week. cool next weekend i'm setting up a new box. maybe i'll just use cvs
01:45<Netslayer>cvs at the same time of a version release is relatively the same right
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01:46<thor_>before the next commit, yes
01:46<thor_>except the release code base goes for extensive QA
01:46<thor_>(heh)
01:47<Netslayer>u being sarcastic?
01:47<Netslayer>u guys don't actually reformat a spare box and test out each version do you heh
01:48<Chutt>hell no
01:48<Netslayer>didn't think so
01:48<thor_>absolutely
01:49<kvandivo>we reformat _two_ boxes! just to be sure
01:49<Netslayer>heh
01:49<topgun98>is mythbrowser in working condition?
01:49<Chutt>yup
01:49<billytwowilly>hehe. now I know why you haven't released a 1.0 yet;) actually requires testing.
01:49<Netslayer>well i'm using a ~.12 cvs, it hasn't crashed yet on me, so i'm really happy with stability nowadays
01:50<Netslayer>in MythNews is there an ability to make a news article go fullscreen, not just in that little window at the top i can't read?
01:50<thor_>sure
01:50<Chutt>most rss feeds don't contain much text.
01:51<thor_>... just write a bit of code ...
01:51<thor_>:-)
01:51<topgun98>what's it coded in C or C++?
01:51<Netslayer>ya well the whole point is to read news, and i can't read it heh
01:52<thor_>no, to read news _headlines_
01:52<thor_>topgun98, C++
01:52<topgun98>Netslayer: then disable the plugin until you finish the addon for it =]
01:52<thor_>that's the spirit
01:52<Netslayer>heh, just curious if i was missing something
01:52<Netslayer>i have to try mythbrowser one of these days
01:53<topgun98>the RSS feeds contain a 'full article' URL of some sort in nearly every case, so I doubt it would be hard to make that work with mythbrowser...
01:53<topgun98>of course, it may already do that, as I haven't setup my mythTV yet
01:53<Netslayer>that reminds me, when was that feature added that shows icons for different types of records in watch recordings? i emerged 12 on my laptop and noticed it has that
01:54<topgun98>if mythtv is coded in C++, I'll see if I can't make mythnews work with mythbrowser or something
01:54<topgun98>after I get it up and running, of course
01:55<topgun98>I'm still waiting on my 160gb drive and a slimline DVD drive
01:55<topgun98>my mom has been asking for a Tivo, so this will be her xmas gift, heheh
01:56<topgun98>I'll have to build one of my own once I move off to college, if it's any good
01:56<topgun98>and it looks DAMN good =]
01:56<topgun98>has anyone tried writing a mail client yet?
01:56<billytwowilly>It's good. And it's getting better.
01:57<Netslayer>do u think having a set of 4 disk drives on raid5 with a timeout -> standby will be a problem for mythtv? aka when it requests access to write to my drives it will take em a few secs to turn on.. should post this on the list. hmm
01:57<thor_>topgun98, just curiosity here, please don't take it the wrong way, if you have yet to actually install myth anywhere, how did you hear about this IRC channel?
01:57<Netslayer>i couldn't live without mythtv anymore, it grows on you
01:58<topgun98>thor_: I've been using freenode for a long, long time... I idle in #debian and just randomly tried #mythtv to see if it existed =].
01:58<thor_>ah
01:58<thor_>just curious
01:59<topgun98>is that not how most people find it?
01:59<topgun98>jk... but I would seriously think there is alot of overlap.
01:59<Netslayer>i never did until now.. think it was discussed on the list
02:00<topgun98>I'm gonna try to write mythmail if mythtv works out for me
02:01<Netslayer>interesting idea
02:01<billytwowilly>topgun98: write mythsms, a program that sms's my phone when a program I flagged is about to start.
02:02<Netslayer>one thing i'm looking forward to.. well it would be nice ... mythradio or mythmusic with internet music stream support. Think I read that has been worked on, have to go back and see
02:02<topgun98>alright, that sounds like a good idea
02:02<topgun98>but it'd be dependant on another project
02:02<thor_>Netslayer, there is a patch that worked ....
02:02<Netslayer>past tense? or just not updated
02:03<thor_>escapes me now
02:03<Netslayer>dang i really should make a new theme for myth, customized mine a lot but why not heh
02:03<thor_>Chutt, sorry ... do you know the status of that streaming stuff for mythmusic?
02:03<Chutt>sfr's stuff?
02:03<Chutt>nope
02:03<thor_>yup
02:04<topgun98>I just need to make a list of stuff that shold be writen and sort it by what I want the most
02:04<topgun98>any other ideas?
02:04<Netslayer>heh
02:04<billytwowilly>topgun98: Check out the thread on the mythtv-users list.
02:04<thor_>mythStarbucksLocator
02:04<thor_>definitely
02:04<Chutt>yeah, there was lots of horrible ideas posted recently
02:04<topgun98>lol
02:05<Netslayer>gosh
02:05<topgun98>was it a joke?
02:05<thor_>if I move my TV three feet to the left, has it changed ?
02:05<Netslayer>heh
02:05<thor_>oh, and integration with WindexBlaster
02:05<topgun98>have any of you guys used a mini itx board?
02:06<Octane>hi guys
02:06<thor_>via board?
02:06<Netslayer>oh ic those little icons at the bottom of watch recordings are just available in blue theme, i'm using purple galaxy :-(
02:06<topgun98>yeah
02:06<topgun98>with mythtv
02:06<Octane>im doing a fresh install with my old epox board. should i have acpi enabled?
02:06<Netslayer>i think acpi is generaly for laptops
02:06<Netslayer>don't see any reason for desktops
02:06<Octane>yah thats my feelings
02:06<Chutt>my mini-itx will be back on tomorrow
02:07<Chutt>replacement fan's finally getting here
02:07<thor_>VIA sent me one in the mail
02:07<topgun98>really?
02:07<topgun98>that's cool
02:07<Chutt>heh
02:07<Chutt>i blew off via
02:08<thor_>largely of off Chutt's work :-)
02:08<Chutt>thor, the guy sent me the source to the mpeg decoder libs and stuff, and said 'don't distribute this'
02:08<billytwowilly>Chutt: Why? that'd be a cool box.
02:08<Chutt>so i said 'that's utterly useless to me then'
02:08<thor_>poison
02:08<thor_>I mean, you're totally tainted
02:08<billytwowilly>so now you can't even write your own because you've seen the source..
02:08<Netslayer>what does the hammer and book (the icons) mean in watch recordings? rip is pretty obvious
02:08<Chutt>naw
02:08<Chutt>he sent that after i did the cle266 stuff that's already in mythtv
02:09<Chutt>and after i decided not to work on it anymore, since it's pretty pointless now that i have a pvr-350 in there
02:09<topgun98>hah
02:09<thor_>did he say "don't distribute this", wink wink nudge nudge ?
02:09<Chutt>nope
02:09<thor_>ugggg
02:10<Chutt>he said 'i really should have you sign an nda first, but i'm going to let that slide since you've already done most of the work'
02:10<Chutt>so i'm clear and stuff :p
02:10<CyberKne2>to what avail?
02:10<thor_>but he sent you the source in an e-mail ?
02:10<Chutt>he didn't actually get to the mpeg decoder bits
02:10<Octane>alright guys
02:10<Chutt>that was going to be in the next email
02:10<Octane>im gonna time my mythtv install
02:10<Octane>:D
02:11<Octane>start 2:11
02:11<thor_>anything happen with WGBH ?
02:11<Chutt>naw
02:11<Chutt>haven't had time to email em
02:11<Chutt>want to spend more than a couple minutes on it, etc
02:11<thor_>ah
02:12* kvandivo yawns softly.
02:12<thor_>anyone tried to track you down re: Comdex January ?
02:12<Chutt>nope
02:13<thor_>hmmm
02:13<thor_>I suspect there will probably be a bunch more people screaming "media convergence" and demo-ing myth boxes
02:14<thor_>(sigh)
02:15<kvandivo>Netslayer: hammer means that commercial skip detection is in progress, and book means that a bookmark has been set for the recording. i wonder if that is in the docs anywhere..
02:15<thor_>anyone know when the next Comdex after January is ?
02:15<CyberKne2>Is there a lot of commercial interest in Myth?
02:15-!-CyberKne2 is now known as CyberKnet
02:15<thor_>not as such
02:16<Chutt>i get rather amusing emails from people wanting to sell boxes every now and then
02:16<thor_>but mom and pop stuff, no?
02:16<Chutt>pretty much
02:16<thor_>any word on how the Italian venture is doing?
02:16<Chutt>nope
02:16<CyberKnet>amusing because they don't need your permission, or ?
02:17<Chutt>because most of em are very funny =)
02:17<topgun98>MythAnsweringMachine? MythDVDDatabase? MythKaraoke? what the heck?
02:17<CyberKnet>my mistake =)
02:17<Chutt>topgun98, 'lots of horrible ideas'
02:17<thor_>MythWalmartRadar !
02:17<CyberKnet>MythMakeMyCoffee
02:17<topgun98>lol
02:18<topgun98>well, a home automation tool could be kind of cool
02:18<CyberKnet>actually, you know what a buddy of mine did, is create a voice interface to a bunch of the programs he uses regularly... but I don't imagine that would be easy.
02:18<topgun98>but screw that kind of stuff until MythTV is funny outfitted with the finest *related* apps
02:18<topgun98>heh
02:19<thor_>Chutt, never any probe from Apple ?
02:19<CyberKnet>but he wrote for windows and just used the TAPI interface.
02:19<Chutt>nope
02:19<Chutt>kvandivo, patch looks good, i'll try to get it merged in tomorrow
02:19<Octane>lol
02:20<thor_>Octane, ?
02:20<Octane>MythKaraoke, when i read that
02:20<Octane>every one of his ideas was worse
02:20<Octane>and then it got to mythkaraoke
02:20<topgun98>can you imagine what MythP2P would be like?
02:20<topgun98>3 years per show
02:20<Octane>topgun98 it wont
02:20<Chutt>other than highly illegal?
02:20<Octane>lol
02:20<thor_>well ....
02:20<thor_>not for content
02:21<topgun98>I mean... if 802.11b isn't fast enough...
02:21<thor_>but for collaborative filtering
02:22<thor_>(yes, yes, I know ... I keep bringing this up without any sense of how to actually do it)
02:22<CyberKnet>the only communication between myth boxes I'd like to see (other than master/slave) is viewing statistics to make show recommendations. And the privacy aspect of that is difficult enough that it would probably never work anyway.
02:22<Chutt>i'd be much happier with a central server for that
02:22<topgun98>why do people want MythP2P when they could just run a FastTrack client from their remote?
02:22<Octane>that is a really cool idea CyberKnet
02:22<thor_>Chutt, you're fired
02:22<thor_>:-)
02:22<Octane>my cdrom makes such loud noises when it spins
02:23<kvandivo>Chutt: cool.. it can be a handy feature
02:23<CyberKnet>Octane: people much smarter than me have thought about the problem and not come up with a good solution...
02:23<kvandivo>i tried to follow the existing conventions in mainserver as much as i could
02:23<CyberKnet>FWIW, I'd contribute my viewing habits.
02:23<topgun98>have you guys heard of iRATE?
02:23<topgun98>just apply that to this...
02:23<topgun98>it's a damn cool idea
02:24<thor_>enlighten us
02:24<Chutt>kvandivo, oh, i was going to combine those two functions
02:24<Octane>my zen's software has a central server for IEEE stats
02:24<topgun98>too tired, sorry
02:24<Octane>lol
02:24<topgun98>basically
02:24<Octane>it sends a server the average speed of your ieee
02:25<Octane>so if that has, surely mythtv could us that
02:25<Octane>use*
02:25<kvandivo>Chutt: i had them combined... :) and was looking at everything else there and figured it would match existing convention the most if split them out. :)
02:25<CyberKnet>I have a really stupid problem with MythWeb that I know is my fault and a configuration issue, but I cant figure out why. Does anyone know where I might go read about it other than the std. documentation? I've read right through it.
02:25<kvandivo>guess i need to just start coding it the way i think it should be and let the chips fall where they may
02:25<Chutt>stuff's split if there's a need to call it the other way
02:25<topgun98>it's a client that lets the user listen to free music, rate it, and then based on a fairly advanced algorithm, iRATE sends the user music exactly according it his/her taste.
02:26<kvandivo>at any rate, i'm going to bed.. _way_ past my bedtime.
02:26<topgun98>I can't explain it as well as the site does
02:26<topgun98>later
02:26<CyberKnet>nite kvandivo
02:26<Octane>kvandivo stay up until i finish installing my new mythtv box
02:27<thor_>this whole central server thing raises the hairs on the back of my neck
02:27<Octane>why thor_
02:27<thor_>who owns it ?
02:27<Chutt>me!
02:27<Chutt>=)
02:27<thor_>yeah
02:27<thor_>I know
02:27<Octane>well put the server in a park
02:28<thor_>but Chutt, you can't own it
02:28<Chutt>i don't like the distributed idea because it's too easy to abuse
02:28<Chutt>oh, yeah, i can't
02:28<Chutt>heh
02:28<topgun98>it will never happen
02:28<thor_>not with sig's against IP's and a notion of gradual trust
02:28<topgun98>it's not worth worrying about
02:29<thor_>certs
02:29<topgun98>it seems more worthwhile to write apps that are of immediate use
02:29<topgun98>like mythmail =]
02:29<Octane>okay my fedora install just crashed. i hate my dvdrom
02:29<Octane>im sorry but i think mythmail is silly
02:29<topgun98>fair enough
02:30<Octane>come on, you gotta draw the line b/w pvr software and an o/s
02:30<Chutt>i dunno, a message center would be useful
02:30<thor_>yes
02:30<topgun98>webtv has it... why not mythtv
02:30<Chutt>'Hey, you're running out of guide data!'
02:30<Octane>i like my idea
02:30<Octane>you guys read my idea on the list?
02:30<thor_>but who owns it ?
02:30<Octane>MythIRC
02:30<topgun98>haha
02:30<Octane>so you can talk to people watching the same show
02:30<CyberKnet>Now there's a crazy idea.
02:30<Octane>like in #worldseries
02:30<ChaosExiguum>oiy
02:30<Chutt>thor, i dunno
02:30<Octane>and you can spam when your team wins, etc
02:30* topgun98 imagines people keying in text on their remotes
02:30<thor_>where "who" is a legal entity?
02:30-!-Sembiance [sembiance@pa-coudersport3d-1-88.cdp.adelphia.net] has quit [Client Quit]
02:30<Octane>lol :)
02:31<CyberKnet>I can barely read text on the damn TV. I hardly want to do IRC.
02:31-!-Sembiance [sembiance@pa-coudersport3d-1-88.cdp.adelphia.net] has joined #mythtv
02:31<thor_>that has serious liabilities
02:31<topgun98>T9 text prediction? lol
02:31<thor_>when someone discovers it's full of copyrighted cover art ?
02:31<Octane>seriously though.. imagine watching... i dont know.. Jeoprady with a few mtyhtv users... you cna play along with them
02:31* CyberKnet piques an interest in thor_'s conversation
02:31<ChaosExiguum>umm hmm
02:32<Chutt>thor, why would cover art be in there?
02:32<thor_>just an example
02:32<thor_>metadata ?
02:32<Chutt>metadata's facts
02:33<thor_>all right ... so next problem
02:33<Netslayer>that does sound fun if T9 stuff works well
02:33<topgun98>ever used it?
02:33<thor_>everyone plays nice and uses the "server"
02:33<CyberKnet>Isn't T9 the stuff that is used in cell phones?
02:33<topgun98>if so, I don't think you'd say that
02:33<topgun98>yes
02:33<Netslayer>heh watch survivor on the other time zone, then go back and tell people who gets voted off heh
02:33<Octane>iTap
02:33<CyberKnet>Isn't it patented?
02:33<topgun98>it's not fun for most people
02:33<Octane>thats what its called right
02:33<topgun98>I was just joking about T9.
02:33<thor_>then one day, Chutt the benevolent becomes the Chutt the savage vulture capitalist ?
02:33<CyberKnet>k ;)
02:33<Octane>Netslayer you a survivor fan??
02:34<Netslayer>i thought someone was working on that T9 stuff
02:34<CyberKnet>hahahah. I can see ijr in that role!
02:34<topgun98>hmm
02:34<Netslayer>ya i'm watching tonights right now
02:34* Octane is a survivor fan since season 1 (curls up in the corner and hides face)
02:34<Netslayer>ya same
02:34<Octane>what part are you up to
02:34<Chutt>heh
02:34<topgun98>well, tell me what would be of the most use for me to write, if mythmail is silly.
02:34<Chutt>thor, pull a gracenote, you mean? :p
02:34<thor_>EXACTLY
02:34<CyberKnet>the community would have to have an open license to the method and the data
02:35<CyberKnet>an unrevokable license to the method and the data
02:35<Netslayer>woudl the day ever come when myth could be embedded into a device?
02:35<ChaosExiguum>how would you cover the bandwidth cost?
02:35<thor_>and kudos to the public DA that tries to enforce the license !
02:35<topgun98>Netslayer: why not do it? just burn an image to a rom chip...
02:35<CyberKnet>thor_: I do understand and appreciate your perspective.
02:36<Netslayer>that would be sweet
02:36<Netslayer>but an xbox is probably best for me now.. really should by one and move the server somewhere where it doesn't bother me
02:36<topgun98>uhg
02:36<topgun98>I will never buy an xbox
02:37<Netslayer>xbox2 will be using an ibm processor, they say it will be the end of xboxlinux
02:37<topgun98>why support Bill and then go and use a free OS?
02:37<Netslayer>your not supporting him at all
02:37<topgun98>oh yeah, forgot
02:37<Netslayer>they lose money on it if u don't buy games
02:37<topgun98>they sell at a loss
02:37<Netslayer>heh
02:37<billytwowilly>I thought he lost money on each xbox sale.
02:37<CyberKnet>thor_: you could try a root-servers system...
02:37<topgun98>sorry.. I'm getting tired
02:37<topgun98>heh
02:37<Netslayer>seriously like what 140 refurbished
02:38<topgun98>well, if that's the case
02:38<topgun98>I'd rather buy it new
02:38<topgun98>heh
02:38<Netslayer>ya it's only what currently 175
02:38<CyberKnet>that's about as best I can come up with that is between p2p and centralized
02:38<topgun98>that would actually be cool
02:38<topgun98>has anyone got the controllers working in linux?
02:38<thor_>CyberKnel, I'm not sure what you mean ?
02:39<topgun98>if only the xbox had a tuner....
02:39<ChaosExiguum>or at least a pci slot
02:39<CyberKnet>thor_: me either... but I was thinking that you could perhaps mirror the data, and use a round-robin or load balanced kind of system to decide which server to submit the data to
02:39<topgun98>heheh, yep
02:39<topgun98>what arch is it? i386?
02:40<ChaosExiguum>i believe so
02:40<CyberKnet>they could sync themselves on a regular basis. Then nobody would have the "one" copy of the data...
02:40<topgun98>what is mythtv without a tuner? still worth it?
02:40<Netslayer>i think this is awesome, shouldn't it be added to the cvs tree http://www.techknowpro.com/mythwap/
02:40<ChaosExiguum>nvidia graphics and an intel cpu
02:40<Netslayer>topgun98 a frontened
02:41<thor_>CyberKnel, it would be nice if there were a network protocol for myth (optical disc metadata, reccomendations, etc.), but if the URL were left up to the user.
02:41<topgun98>wow! MythWAP is cool
02:41<Netslayer>ya it works great
02:41<CyberKnet>thor_: Yes, that would also be nice. There's no reason the user should be locked into using one set of servers.
02:41<Netslayer>well i've only tried it for 5 min but still
02:41<thor_>but that still leaves open the question of how to make Chutt rich :-)
02:41<topgun98>any other cool myth-related stuff I should know about? =]
02:41<CyberKnet>thor_: lmao
02:42<Netslayer>it's endless
02:42<CyberKnet>thor_: I didn't know chutt was in this for the money
02:42<CyberKnet>*grin*
02:42<thor_>hey, look at the top line in the website
02:42<thor_>which has never changed
02:43<CyberKnet>Yep
02:43<Chutt>i changed the 2nd sentence back in june or so
02:43<thor_>Well, first sentence has yet to change
02:43<topgun98>when I was talking about mythmail, I was really thinking more along the lines of something my granparents could use
02:43<o_cee>kvandivo: tmpmessage = tr("Yes, wrong show recorded"); you didn't change that? :)
02:43<topgun98>I can't see myself using my TV for email
02:43<Chutt>i do ignore all donation queries :p
02:44<billytwowilly>topgun98: have you checked your email on 640 by 480 resolution? it's not pretty..
02:44<thor_>redirect to EFF ?
02:44-!-kro [~user@sdn-ap-025dcwashP0402.dialsprint.net] has joined #mythtv
02:44<CyberKnet>Chutt: You don't want any donations (monetary or otherwise)?
02:44<Chutt>nope
02:44-!-bline [sbeck@myth.nmsrv.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
02:45<Chutt>not really interested in that, unless it's a _significant_ amount :p
02:45<CyberKnet>heh
02:45<o_cee>what if we all send you a postcard for christmas? :)
02:45-!-eco [~eco@dsl093-224-100.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #mythtv
02:45<CyberKnet>people usually associate a donation with an expectation that now their ideas should be given more priority
02:45<thor_>rip the central server from Chutt's evil hands !!!
02:45<CyberKnet>when in reality, nobodys ideas/desires are given more priority than Chutt's =P"
02:45<eco>Anyone know how Myth does it's IMDB lookups? Is it just POSTs then finding the movie search results in the returned page?
02:45<topgun98>alright, well, I think I'm going to go pass out now
02:46<Chutt>eco, something along those lines
02:46<CyberKnet>Of course, we have the code, so...
02:46<o_cee>eco: hi to you too.
02:46<topgun98>nice meeting you folks.... I'm eager to get my mythtv box up and running
02:46<topgun98>later
02:46-!-topgun98 [~topgun98@adslct35.cofs.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
02:46<eco>o_cee: ;)
02:47<CyberKnet>MythWeb is not showing the previews for recorded shows, and is having a stat error on the video recording store... but I changed the owner/group to the webserver uid ... any ideas?
02:47<Octane>CyberKnet there was a thread on it the other day if im not mistaken
02:47<Netslayer>i had a prob with that
02:48<CyberKnet>I know... I was searching gossamer for it too
02:48<Netslayer>there are a million threads
02:48<CyberKnet>I must not be using the right keywords
02:48<Netslayer>one was by me
02:48<CyberKnet>I think I may have been using thumbnails instead of previews. let me research before I bother you folks
02:48<CyberKnet>=)
02:48<Netslayer>actually i fixed it with the chown or something.. it got added to the readme/docs
02:49<Netslayer>ohya
02:49<Octane>i love saying chown out loud
02:49<Netslayer>it was apache was defaulting to a nobody nogroup idea so it didn't have permission to do a copy
02:49<Octane>almost as i like to say mrproper outloud
02:50<CyberKnet>I'm on RH9 and I thought the webserver was running as apache
02:50<CyberKnet>but I gave a+rw on the files, a+rwx on the store directory and a+rwx on mythtv's home directory
02:51<Netslayer>apache has a config file that states what group it belongs to in it.. i think that was added to the docs/readme by me a while back, it's worth a check
02:51<Chutt>you have to make the directory it's copying the files to.
02:51<Chutt>it's in the mythweb readme.
02:52* o_cee is back (gone 05:50:35)
02:52<o_cee>not enough sleep :|
02:53<thor_>Chutt, you have some more-or-less serious interest in the idea of a plugin interface (e.g. the mfd module stuff) actually being used for non GPL-code then?
02:53<Chutt>thor, nope
02:53<thor_>ok ....
02:54<Chutt>it's just nice to have that slightly less restrictive is all
02:54<thor_>yup
02:54<thor_>well ... since I'm too stupid to rewrite Rendezvous from scratch ... it's moot
02:55<thor_>so now advertising push model ?
02:56<thor_>no
02:56<Chutt>heh
02:56<Chutt>no
02:56<thor_>I was actually toying with the idea of what would happen if you released OS code with a --leach option ?
02:57<CyberKnet>Chutt: image_cache exists already. The problem appears to be trying to stat the png that already exists?
02:58<Chutt>hm?
02:58<thor_>hm? to me?
02:58-!-_kch_ [~kch@175.Red-80-37-138.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #mythtv
02:58<Chutt>ya
02:58<thor_>well ...
02:58<Netslayer>so it's giving a permision error?
02:59<o_cee>is it possible to get the 350's audio out the coax? or i'll connect lineout->linein?
03:00<thor_>say you finance the upfront costs of a reccomendation engine off of advertising revenue
03:00<Netslayer>what do you guys think of this (my post) http://www.gossamer-threads.com/archive/MythTV_C2/Users_F11/feature_request_for_flagging_recorded_shows_as_watched_for_multiple_users_P93646/
03:00<CyberKnet>Netslayer: yes. I'm trying to run more specific searches over the mailing list archive. I've followed the MythWeb readme 100% already.
03:00<thor_>but you keep everything OS
03:00<Netslayer>i would check your apache config file
03:01<thor_>you can't enfore a condition in open source .... you can't keep something secret if the user does not want it to be secret
03:01<thor_>so ...
03:01<thor_>you dispense with the notion
03:01<thor_>and say anyone who wants to just leach
03:02<thor_>build the software with a --leach flag
03:02<thor_>the question then is ...
03:02<thor_>how many people acutally pay attention enough to build the software that way ?
03:02<CyberKnet>from my httpd.conf:
03:02<CyberKnet>#
03:02<CyberKnet>User apache
03:02<CyberKnet>Group apache
03:02<Netslayer>not me heh
03:03<Netslayer>uh i think that's good, look at the readme in mythweb it got added
03:03<CyberKnet>Yep. I read the readme top to bottom
03:03<CyberKnet>and ran every command that was applicable.
03:03<thor_>and how many are too busy with real life to bother with building a --leach version ?
03:04<Netslayer>so what is it exactly that you want to leech?
03:04<Netslayer>i got lost above
03:04<thor_>whatever
03:04<thor_>... sorry, I'm not being clear ....
03:04<thor_>I have some service that I'd like to deliver to MythTV users
03:05<thor_>so I say, add this module to your source tree, and you'll get some benefit
03:05<thor_>(you don't have to pay me anything)
03:06<Netslayer>ah so it would be closed source
03:06<thor_>no
03:06<thor_>that's the thing
03:06<Netslayer>u mentioned built in 'advertising'?
03:07<Netslayer>if it's open source what makes it different then current mythtv work?
03:07<thor_>...
03:08<thor_>well, currently, mythtv has a several hundred thousand eyeball share, and zero revenue
03:08<thor_>and I'm not sure there is any way to fundamentally alter that
03:08<Netslayer>what's stopping someone from packaging it and selling it? GPL?
03:08<thor_>anyone can sell it
03:09* Netslayer ponders
03:09<thor_>as long as they distribute source
03:09<Netslayer>heh
03:09<Netslayer>that's what i thought
03:09<billytwowilly>you guys should setup a paypal donation account.
03:09<billytwowilly>I'd donate.
03:09<thor_>no, no
03:09<thor_>that's small change
03:09<Netslayer>ya why not?
03:09<Netslayer>it would easily reach thousands
03:09<Netslayer>over a while heh
03:10<billytwowilly>seriously. 10 bucks * 1 % of 300 000 = 30 grand..
03:10<Netslayer>of course who diserves the money, the main founders?, there are a lot of contributers
03:10<thor_>I don't know about Chutt (et. al.), but thousands is a few orders of magnitude away from what I worry about
03:11<billytwowilly>use it to setup bounties to get things done.
03:11<thor_>hey, if you like it, give money to the EFF
03:11<Chutt>i'm an overpaid software engineer
03:11<Netslayer>oh tribal council on survivor brb
03:11<o_cee>lol
03:11<o_cee>hhehhe
03:11<thor_>I was an overpaid wall street analyst
03:11<billytwowilly>and now you're retired?
03:12<thor_>heh
03:12<Netslayer>i noticed u came at it with a business point of view ;-)
03:12<thor_>sorry, I'm trying to finish my thought here
03:12<billytwowilly>Netslayer: me?
03:12<thor_>now, where was I
03:13<thor_>right
03:13<billytwowilly>I think the bounties would be cool. It'd probably attract way more developers.
03:13<Netslayer>nah
03:13<Netslayer>u mean like rentacoder.com heh
03:14<thor_>lots of users, lots of data about what they do
03:14<billytwowilly>I don't actually know about rentacoder.com.. I was just thinking something like 1 grand to the guy that writes an sms plugin.
03:14<thor_>easiest thing to write a module that "phones home" to some secret server and records what people are doing
03:15<Netslayer>heh
03:15<thor_>but what is you say to people, let me do this in a completely open way, and I'll push advertising against your interface
03:15<thor_>what if
03:16<thor_>anyone who knows anything about programming could snoop in and cut off the advertising fields
03:16<Netslayer>then they comment that part out of the code and recompile heh
03:16<Netslayer>ya
03:16<Netslayer>then people who don't use patches
03:16<Netslayer>it's hopeless
03:16<thor_>is it?
03:17<Netslayer>i think so, i mean closed source software is ad hackable already, look at msn messenger (well in windows), there are ad removers..
03:17<thor_>apt-get ?
03:17<billytwowilly>thor_: Did you just black out? I could have sworn I heard the devil speaking through your keyboard;)
03:17<thor_>rpm ?
03:18<Netslayer>heh
03:18<Netslayer>what about them? i'm lost
03:18<thor_>cvs release, by default, honours the spam/advertising stuff
03:19<thor_>so a debian apt-get puts code on your machine that puts ads on your tv
03:19<billytwowilly>thor_: ahh, I see the devil hasn't finished with you yet;)
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03:20<thor_> billytwowilly, I take your point
03:20<Netslayer>this is freaky i've had two fortune cookies today and they both seem like they will happen.. nm
03:21<billytwowilly>thor_: I'm half joking, however I think most people use mythtv to remove the commercials.
03:21<thor_>yup
03:21<Netslayer>heh
03:21<Netslayer>never works for me
03:21<thor_>but whatever
03:22<thor_>you want to know the contents of that DVD you inserted without having to type in the details?
03:22<thor_>please see this add
03:22<Netslayer>u talking about that auto insert code someone was talking about
03:22<thor_>more generally
03:22<billytwowilly>thor_: I think you can do that now with that dvd thing mentioned on the mailing lists.. just requires a bit of code.
03:22<thor_>I'm trying to figure out how myth could make money
03:23<billytwowilly>thor_: you should talk to rcam. I think he's trying to do the same thing.
03:23<Netslayer>build systems, sell, and have support for it = $
03:23<thor_>nope
03:23<thor_>consumer end-user is a total suckers game
03:23<thor_>no margin
03:23<Netslayer>heh
03:24<thor_>all headaches
03:24<Netslayer>true
03:24<thor_>venture money wouldn't walk a mile close to that
03:24<Netslayer>well i can see it becoming embedded
03:24<thor_>yup
03:24<thor_>absolutely
03:24<thor_>but there's no straightforward licensing
03:25<thor_>so how does Chutt make money off that ?
03:25<billytwowilly>thor_: sell it on cd
03:25<Netslayer>cause the open source aspect that has propelled the software to where it is today stops it from being sold
03:25<Netslayer>he was being sarcastic wasn't he
03:26<thor_>the boring answer is, "Consulting"
03:26<Netslayer>is chutt ijr?
03:26<CyberKnet>thor_: It could work. Mandrake sell ad space in the MDK installer
03:26<thor_>Netslayer, yes
03:26<Netslayer>except for that fact that myth has no installer right now
03:27<Netslayer>not hard to do though
03:27<billytwowilly>Netslayer: knoppmyth
03:27<thor_> ... not actually a linux distribution ...
03:27<Netslayer>haven't tried that one yet
03:27<CyberKnet>No, I meant selling ads with a compile-time option to compile them out.
03:27<Netslayer>that sounds funny
03:27<thor_>I dunno
03:27<CyberKnet>If mdk can sell ads in their installer, I'm sure you could sell ads in a PVR.
03:28<thor_>it's more or less a stupid idea
03:28<billytwowilly>thor_: You should talk to rcam. He was going off about how knoppmyth will be the saviour of mythtv and such.
03:28<Netslayer>i think the ultimate money making scheme is designing the whole hardware aspect, embed it into it and sell that
03:28<thor_>yeah, whatever
03:28<CyberKnet>I can see the freevo community buying ads. =P
03:28<thor_>heh
03:28<thor_>look ...
03:28<thor_>myth is going to do very well in any case
03:28<thor_>it's already good
03:28<Netslayer>well i don't see any other better software so i agree
03:28<CyberKnet>I concur.
03:29<Netslayer>u can't compare anything on the market today, it's all crap
03:29<thor_>has a decent core of developers, etc.
03:29<thor_>so the question is ...
03:29<CyberKnet>I gotta jet. Thor, it's been real interesting.
03:29<billytwowilly>I thought tivo was supposed to be quite good.
03:29<thor_>how does the usefulness through off dollars
03:29<Netslayer>well for me, tivo is way too expensive for what it does, since mythtv does a ton more for free
03:29<thor_>CyberKnet, see ya
03:30<CyberKnet>thor_: slashdot will have a heart attack, you know... heh
03:30<thor_>eh?
03:30<CyberKnet>something that is free and Free that wants to show ads ...
03:30<bline>hola
03:30<thor_>yeah
03:31<CyberKnet>It'd be quite amusing.
03:31<thor_>I still don't really know what I'm thinking about
03:31<CyberKnet>Almost worth it just as an April 1st if you decide not to go ahead =)
03:31<Netslayer>i don't think u could get people to pay you to show their ads if they know it's that easily disabled
03:31<thor_>but if you did it ina sufficiently "Apple" way
03:31<CyberKnet>thor: I think you could find certain places to put ads in there. But I'd keep them away from the EPG if I were you.
03:31<thor_>well, what's "easy" ?
03:32<o_cee>i'd still prefer donation instead. i'd actually do that. looking at ads, now way.
03:32<thor_>I mean, look at the friggin questions on the mailing list ?
03:32<o_cee>no even
03:32<o_cee>lots of stupid people? :)
03:32<CyberKnet>Look at MY questions... and I code in three languages!
03:32<thor_>o_cee, you don't count ... you have a Swedish girlfriend .... and an iPod !!!
03:33<o_cee>weh, yeah! i do :)
03:33<o_cee>muhehehehhe
03:33<CyberKnet>nite folks.
03:33<thor_>night
03:33-!-CyberKnet is now known as kNetAway
03:34<thor_>o_cee, what you sell advertising space in your backend status screen for ?
03:35-!-kro [~user@sdn-ap-025dcwashP0402.dialsprint.net] has quit [Client Quit]
03:35<bline>anyone had any trouble with ivtv latest cvs and myth latest cvs
03:35<o_cee>wha?
03:35<thor_>I know
03:35<o_cee>hmm :)
03:35<thor_>I'm not making much sense
03:36<o_cee>i've read that sentence many times now and still don't get what you mean, heheh
03:36<thor_>bline, I'm still about a month behind on ivitv
03:36<bline>hmm, maybe I should try downgrading ivtv then
03:36<o_cee>me too, working great with a 250
03:37<billytwowilly>o_cee: thor_ is in the process of going over to the dark side.
03:37<bline>strange that cating /dev/video0 seems to work fine though..
03:37<thor_>should be: "o_cee, what _WOULD_ you sell advertising space in your backend status screen for ?"
03:38<thor_>billytwowilly, hey
03:38<o_cee>hehe, well. actually, no idea. first reaction is that no-one would be intrested in buying such space anyway
03:38<thor_>my credentials are pristine
03:38<billytwowilly>thor_: Sorry, I'm having an allergic reaction to all this talk of advertising embedded in mythtv.
03:38<o_cee>didn't anyone notice my replacement icons for the ugly ones in playbackbox?
03:39<thor_>eh?
03:39<o_cee>eh? to me?
03:39<thor_>yup
03:39<billytwowilly>thor_: it's anathema to all the reasons I like open source and mythtv.
03:39<o_cee>my theme?
03:40<thor_>billytwowilly, we could both climb up on our high horses on this, if you like ...
03:40<thor_>but I suspect my horse is higher than yours
03:40<thor_>:-P
03:41<billytwowilly>thor_: too far to fall down;) I'll stick to make snide remarks thank you very much;)
03:41<o_cee>thor_: did you try my theme?
03:41<billytwowilly>err making
03:41<thor_>o_cee, with all caps or without ?
03:42<Netslayer>u talking about the watch recordings hammer,book, rip icons?
03:42<o_cee>thor_: i mean the real thing?
03:42<o_cee>Netslayer: yes
03:42<Netslayer>what is the hammer and book for?
03:42<o_cee>lats
03:42<o_cee>;)
03:42<thor_>Lenin?
03:42<o_cee>probably
03:43<thor_>(hammer, book?)
03:43<o_cee>sumblime messages
03:43<o_cee>whops
03:43<thor_>ah
03:43<o_cee>:)
03:43<Netslayer>watch recordings -> look at the bottom left when u go over programs
03:43<thor_>excellent
03:43<Netslayer>a book, hammer, rip, or $ appear
03:43<Netslayer>rip is obviously auto expire
03:43<thor_>another revenue model !!!!
03:43<o_cee>yeah? look at the source
03:43<o_cee>thor_: sponsored icons! :)
03:43<Netslayer>google it
03:43<thor_>now you're thinking
03:44<o_cee>:)
03:44<thor_>o_cee, you got the iPOD working ?
03:44<o_cee>but did anyone see those icons in my theme?
03:44<o_cee>thor_: somewhat, yeah
03:44<Netslayer>is it in cvs, blue theme?
03:44<thor_>but not with iTunes (on purpose)
03:44<o_cee>Netslayer: no, my preview of g.a.n.t.
03:44<Netslayer>i've seen the ones that are in gentoo's 12 release
03:45<Netslayer>oh no, where is that?
03:45<billytwowilly>classic;) go type this "miserable failure" into google and hit the i'm feeling lucky button;)
03:45<o_cee>thor_: iTunes made me mad
03:45<thor_>yeah
03:45<thor_>but it does daap
03:45<o_cee>Netslayer: you'd need current cvs, and if you'd be running that, you'd know about the theme.
03:45-!-Drikus [~Drikus@cc45940-a.deven1.ov.home.nl] has joined #mythtv
03:45<Netslayer>ok, give me a week i'm busy
03:45<o_cee>i'll switch when you have the code ready to use it ;)
03:45<thor_>oh
03:45<thor_>nasty
03:46<Netslayer>wtf
03:46<thor_>soon ....
03:46<Netslayer>omg
03:46<Netslayer>does google have some kind of vendetta against bush?
03:46<o_cee>thor_: now tell me, _did_ you try it or not? :)
03:46<billytwowilly>hehehe;) I don't know, but it's funny as hell;)
03:46<thor_>o_cee, try what, the latest backend update >
03:46<thor_>?
03:47<Netslayer>"classic;) go type this "miserable failure" into google and hit the i'm feeling lucky button;)"
03:47<o_cee>thor_: damn you
03:47<o_cee>don't make me punch you
03:47* thor_ huh
03:47<thor_>what did i do ?
03:48<o_cee>[mythtv] Preview release 1 of the new theme G.A.N.T.
03:48<o_cee>you completely missed that one?
03:48<thor_>uhm ...
03:48<thor_>I'm a bit afraid to answer
03:48<o_cee>muhehehe
03:49<thor_>can I speak to my attorney ?
03:49<Netslayer>brb
03:49<o_cee>dunno, don't know if there'll be time for that..
03:49<billytwowilly>thor_: I'm sorry, you've already used up your "call a friend" what is your final answer?;)
03:50<thor_>... uhm ... people in Sweden are all crazy ... "I THINK HE"S IN THE SHOWER WITH HIS GIRLFRIEND" ...
03:51* billytwowilly wishes he was in the shower with his girlfriend
03:51<o_cee>thor_: don't divert the attention now...
03:51<o_cee>:)
03:51-!-Netslayer [~Netslayer@c-24-126-201-221.we.client2.attbi.com] has quit []
03:52<thor_>sorry, I need to go for a smoke .. everyone is more than welcome to tell me what I'm supposed to be doing in the meantime
03:52<o_cee>grrr
03:52<o_cee>:)
03:52<o_cee>damn you
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03:54<Netslayer>i think it would be entertaining to have a plugin that would let people discuss a show as your watching it
03:54<Netslayer>not thinking about implementation or mass spam heh, it would be fun
03:55<billytwowilly>Netslayer: have you ever tried talking to people about shows on channles outside of irc.freenode.net?
03:55<Netslayer>of course someone would have to run a big server somewhere for it heh
03:55<billytwowilly>They all seem to end in "Eat my ass donkey dick!" or some other similar vulgarity.
03:55<Netslayer>actually no, usually they are 13yrs blabbing their mouths off so i don't bother
03:55<Netslayer>heh
03:56<billytwowilly>I doubt it would be different with a plugin.
03:56<Netslayer>ya but if your running myth your probably a littler more knowledgable
03:56<Netslayer>or lets say wiser maybe
03:56<billytwowilly>I'm more knowledgeable. My sister, mother and father aren't;)
03:56<thor_>here's a thought:
03:56<Netslayer>ya but would they use a remote to key in a comment, maybe, but prob not
03:57<billytwowilly>You have a 1 in 4 chance of getting someone computer literate;)
03:57<Netslayer>really, it's that high
03:57<Netslayer>heh
03:57<o_cee>thor_: aaaaaah, you're back, now you need to answer :)
03:57<billytwowilly>Netslayer: remote? You'd have to use a keyboard..
03:57<billytwowilly>Netslayer: Only if I'm home and my sister doesn't have friends over;)
03:57<thor_>when you download firebird, you don't imagine you're ever _not_ going to get a banner add
03:57<Netslayer>i think a cell phone type deal would work on a remote
03:57<billytwowilly>have you ever tried to sms in real time on a cellphone?
03:58<Netslayer>ya that's so cheap
03:58<Netslayer>refreshing php
03:58<Netslayer>but besides that all trash u mean ya
03:58<thor_>so when you download (and install) myth, why shouldn't you get advertising ?
03:58<billytwowilly>I'm sorry, I'm rather pessimistic about a chat plugin. I think it has great intentions, but the end results would not be as good as envisioned.
03:59<Netslayer>but wouldn't it be fun to watch a show and have a casual conversation, or learn something interesting
03:59<o_cee>thor_: firebird doesn't show ads on itself, you know that. besides, it has excellent popup stopper
03:59<Netslayer>ur prob right, that's why there would be an off button
03:59<thor_>off point
04:00<thor_>you still get ads
04:00<thor_>even on /.
04:00<thor_>why?
04:00<Netslayer>it's just u would need a central server, prob an irc based one to log into and have myth log in to a specific channel for your episode/show
04:00<o_cee>you get ads with mythbrowser? :)
04:00<o_cee>i know why
04:01<thor_>o_cee, ok, why?
04:01<o_cee>they need to make money of course, servers costs and so on
04:01<thor_>but why can't you get /. ad free ?
04:02<o_cee>because their servers cost?
04:02<thor_>what client are you using ?
04:02<o_cee>firebird
04:02<billytwowilly>thor_: What kind of money would you get for an add view? maybe a penny per view?
04:02<o_cee>oh you mean why i can't remove comercials with firebird on /. ? i doubt thats correct
04:02<thor_>but you could write your own client to throw away the ads !
04:02<thor_>why do you see ads ?
04:03<o_cee>i don't?
04:03<thor_>I do
04:03<o_cee>why
04:03<thor_>cause firebird is a lot easier than hacking my own code
04:03<o_cee>you completely lost me
04:03<o_cee>:)
04:04<thor_>yeah
04:04<o_cee>you're telling me you can't remove ads from /. with firebird?
04:04<thor_>no, you can
04:04<thor_>but it requires work
04:04<o_cee>nothing more than an extra plugin
04:04<thor_>I'm just saying, Joe Sixpack
04:04<thor_>download client
04:04<thor_>use client
04:05<thor_>see advetising
04:05<thor_>advertising
04:05<thor_>bah
04:05<o_cee>stupid joe :)
04:05<billytwowilly>I wouldn't be surprised if someone forked mythtv to get away from the advertising.
04:05<billytwowilly>ala kazaalite
04:05<o_cee>no-one gets payed by _looking_ at ads
04:06<thor_>yup
04:06<o_cee>clicking
04:06<o_cee>anyway
04:06<Netslayer>i did once, of course i ran a program to move my mouse and randomly click heh
04:06-!-choenig [~choenig@pD9E0992B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #mythtv
04:06<billytwowilly>Netslayer: Ghostmouse in windows?;)
04:06<o_cee>you're only saying this to make me forget the original question. why didn't you try my theme? :)
04:06<Netslayer>not sure it was a wihle ago
04:07<Netslayer>i will i promie
04:07<Netslayer>promise
04:07<billytwowilly>Netslayer: If it was windows it was probably ghostmouse;) I used that too;)
04:07<thor_>o_cee, I was hoping your forgot?
04:07<Netslayer>it was years ago, like 4
04:07<o_cee>thor_: hehehe. no.
04:08<Netslayer>is that theme being discussed on the list, talking about how the icons should look or something
04:08<billytwowilly>Netslayer: Same here;) I got a letter from doubleclick (or whatever they were called at the time) about how they weren't going to send me my money because I had a clickthrough rate of ~ 80 %;) There was other stuff going on as well as the ghostmouse thing.
04:08<o_cee>Netslayer: haven't gotten alot of useful input on it really
04:08<Netslayer>well i only got paid once, alladvantage went under, heh no comment
04:09<Netslayer>o_cee, if i like it i'll let u know if i'm in here
04:09<thor_>o_cee, actually, I need you to write a similar set of routines for the status port of the mfd
04:09<billytwowilly>They still owe me a couple hundred bucks;) I've written it off though.
04:09<Netslayer>just don't have time until next week
04:09<billytwowilly>Gotta love having an accountant for a dad;)
04:10<o_cee>thor_: heh, allright:)
04:10<Netslayer>it sucks now that i want to have them as i have a real site
04:10<thor_>billytwowilly, your father is a tax accountant ?
04:10<billytwowilly>Yah.
04:10<billytwowilly>Up in Canada.
04:10<thor_>even better
04:10<Netslayer>wherabouts
04:10<billytwowilly>he's billyonewilly;)
04:10<billytwowilly>jk;)
04:10<Netslayer>heh
04:10<billytwowilly>Alberta.
04:11<Netslayer>ah i'm from MB
04:11<thor_>Netslayer, where MB?
04:11<thor_>where in MB?
04:11<Netslayer>manitoba, center of canada, above north dakota
04:11<Netslayer>winnipeg
04:11<billytwowilly>Interesting.
04:11<Netslayer>going their in two weeks, can't wait
04:12<thor_>I own three quarters of land in Arborg
04:12<thor_>not far from Gimli
04:12<o_cee>Son of Gondor?
04:12<billytwowilly>thor_: Why do you need an accountant In canada?
04:12<Netslayer>heh, that's kind in the middle no wheres isn't it?
04:12<thor_>about an hours drive north of Winnipeg
04:12<thor_>billytwowilly, well ...
04:12<Netslayer>my grandma has a cottage around there
04:13<thor_>it's Icelandic country
04:13<thor_>(thus my name)
04:13<Netslayer>k, never got that
04:13<billytwowilly>thor_: unless you're a medium to large sized business I don't know if he'd want to pick you up as a client...
04:14<thor_>billytwowilly, I have an insanely complicated tax situation ...
04:14<thor_>live in USA
04:14<thor_>on diplomatic visa
04:14<Netslayer>dang i have to file CA taxes this year err
04:14<thor_>assets in Canada
04:14<thor_>and in Europe
04:14<thor_>and in Middle East
04:14<Netslayer>wow
04:15<thor_>just always looking for someone who understand Candian tax law
04:15<billytwowilly>My dad wouldn't be able to help you much then. His firm probably could though.
04:15<billytwowilly>He could do the Canadian stuff, but I don't think he does US tax stuff.
04:15<thor_>crap
04:15<billytwowilly>Have you heard of KPMG?
04:16<thor_>hey, I used to a partner in PWC
04:16<thor_>to bw
04:16<thor_>to be
04:16<thor_>(god, it's late)
04:16<Netslayer>i agree
04:16<Netslayer>i'm already in bed heh
04:17<Netslayer>using mythtv as my background kinda
04:17<billytwowilly>I haven't heard of PWC;) I don't know much about taxes though. I just understand that KPMG should be fairly recognizeable if I mention it.
04:17<thor_>heh
04:17<thor_>there used to be "eight big accounting firms"
04:17<thor_>now there's 4
04:18<billytwowilly>and kpmg is one of them??
04:18<thor_>yup
04:18<billytwowilly>pwc is one of the others?
04:18<billytwowilly>oh. is that price waterhouse coopers?
04:18<thor_>DLT = Deloitte & Touche
04:18<thor_>PWC= PriceWaterhouseCoopers
04:18<billytwowilly>yah, ok I have heard of them then.
04:18<thor_>yeah
04:18<thor_>etc
04:19<thor_>anyway
04:19<billytwowilly>You should have plenty of contacts at PWC, why don't you use them?
04:19<thor_>use them for what?
04:19<thor_>ah
04:19<thor_>taxes?
04:19<billytwowilly>To help you to solve your tax situation.
04:19<thor_>no
04:19<thor_>you have to actually pay someone
04:19<billytwowilly>yes, why don't you actually pay them to help you?
04:19<thor_>otherwise you have no defense in a court
04:20<billytwowilly>they might cut you a deal or something;)
04:20<thor_>no
04:20<thor_>it's just too friggin complicated
04:21<billytwowilly>it's too complicated for PWC? One of the biggest accounting firms in the world?
04:22<billytwowilly>That's amusing;) I'll have to tell him that someone had a situation too complicated for PWC, but they though KPMG might be able to help;)
04:22<billytwowilly>thought.
04:23<thor_>no
04:23<thor_>it's just none of my friends want to take up the comp
04:24<thor_>(complimentary)
04:24<billytwowilly>meaning risk?
04:24<thor_>no
04:24<thor_>meaning they don't want to actually ask me for money
04:24<billytwowilly>Oh.
04:25<thor_>but my situation is complicated (expensive) to resolve
04:25<billytwowilly>ok. Well if you like you can private message me some details of your particular situation and I can let him know.
04:25<thor_>heh
04:25<billytwowilly>He's a partner here in alberta.
04:25<thor_>probably not the right forum for tax advise :-)
04:26<billytwowilly>Well, I'd want a contact name and number as well.
04:26<billytwowilly>He'd phone you from his office if he thought he could help you out.
04:26<billytwowilly>It'll probably be expensive.
04:26<thor_>you have no idea
04:26<billytwowilly>exactly.
04:26<thor_>it's a nightmare
04:26<billytwowilly>why I want the info so I can pass it on to someone who might have some notion.
04:27<billytwowilly>He might not want it. It might be too screwed up. I have no idea.
04:27<billytwowilly>I do know he is an excellent accountant though.
04:27<thor_>lets just leave it for the time being
04:28<thor_>bring it up again on another IRC occasion
04:28<billytwowilly>He's been a partner for a long time now (probably 15 years) and we keep collecting better and better crap, so he must be doing something right;)
04:28<thor_>cause I do need the expertease
04:28<billytwowilly>Ok, I would be interested in a very vague outline of your situation so I can mention it to him though.
04:28<thor_>and I'm paying through the nose for it right now (firm in Toronto)
04:28<thor_>heh
04:29<thor_>Ok
04:29<billytwowilly>I don't think that would change;)
04:29<thor_>just ...
04:29<thor_>very vaguely
04:29<thor_>A Canadian citizen
04:29<billytwowilly>Yah exactly. nothing personally linked to you at all.
04:29<billytwowilly>probably private messaged would be best too??
04:29<o_cee>no no no
04:29<o_cee>;)
04:29<thor_>no, I won't do anything self incriminating
04:30<billytwowilly>My dad is always stressing client confidentiality;) I suppose it rubbed off;)
04:30<thor_>ok
04:30<thor_>this should be fun
04:31<thor_>Canadian citizen, resident alien in the United States, but not a green card holder (diplomatic visa)
04:32<thor_>spouse is Candian, but United Nations/World Bank/International Monetary Fund/ employee .... G4 visa holder
04:33<thor_>so am G4 dependent visa holder
04:34<thor_>employee G5 Visa holder as domestic help (Nanny)
04:34<thor_>primary G4 visa holder is subject to no income tax
04:35<thor_>(as per UN / World Bank articles of incorporation)
04:36<thor_>dependent G4 is subject to USA tax on USA derived income)
04:36<thor_>...
04:36<billytwowilly>you mentioned properties in other countries.
04:36<thor_>oh yeah
04:37<thor_>uhm
04:37<thor_>lots
04:37<thor_>but not anything I'd talk about
04:37<thor_>(everything above is about obligations)
04:38<o_cee>what do you work with?
04:38<billytwowilly>Ok, with that he should be able to figure out if he can help you or not?
04:38<thor_>heh
04:38<thor_>I don't know if he can help me
04:38<billytwowilly>KPMG is a big place, if he can't he probably knows several people who can.
04:39<thor_>but I'm happy to tell him that there are a boatload of G4 visa types in Washington DC that have no idea how they can better manage their situation
04:40<billytwowilly>Ok, and you worked for one of the big four, so you know about what things like this cost?
04:40<thor_>HA
04:40<thor_>excellent question
04:40<thor_>!!
04:40<thor_>but I'm not actually an entire corporation
04:40<thor_>just one guy
04:41<billytwowilly>hehe. Well, I'll ask him about it and then tell you what he said and then you can give me contact info if you like and we can go from there.
04:41<billytwowilly>I don't know if you'll get any better deal than what you get from that firm in Toronto.
04:42<thor_>hey, nothing ventured, nothing gained
04:42<thor_>yup
04:42<billytwowilly>Although deal is subjective. You might pay the same or more, but I wouldn't be surprised if they turn something up that saves you more, or they somehow add more value. I don't know too much about the family business;)
04:43<billytwowilly>(My uncle, grandfather and cousin are all acountants as well;)
04:43<thor_>oh
04:43<thor_>crap
04:43<thor_>how old are you
04:43<thor_>?
04:43<billytwowilly>20
04:43<thor_>leave Alberta
04:43<thor_>now
04:43<billytwowilly>third year uni in an economics degree.
04:43<billytwowilly>heh, why?
04:43<billytwowilly>I like it here.
04:44<thor_>'cause there's more to see
04:44<thor_>you can always go back
04:44<thor_>in fact
04:44<thor_>you should go back
04:44<billytwowilly>I'm kind of tied down here. I have an amazing girlfriend.
04:44<thor_>take her with you
04:44<billytwowilly>she's from whitehorse, yukon though. So I might end up living up there for a while.
04:45<billytwowilly>I also want to finish school;)
04:45<o_cee>i was about to say something funny but didn't.....
04:45<thor_>(btw, I used to teach Economics at McGill)
04:45<o_cee>perkkel\xE4
04:45<billytwowilly>o_cee: Yes, I know my girlfriend isn't swedish, and I don't have an ipod, but I do have A girlfriend and an archos mp3 jukebox, so I'm fairly happy;)
04:46<billytwowilly>thor_: I'll ask you if I ever have any trouble;)
04:46<o_cee>billytwowilly: that's not what i meant
04:46<thor_>well, at the very least, go up to the Yuokon
04:46<billytwowilly>o_cee: a swing and a miss then;)
04:46<o_cee>;)
04:47<billytwowilly>thor_: I was there twice this summer (god bless airmiles) it's a nice place.
04:47<billytwowilly>I wouldn't want to raise children there though.
04:47<thor_>cool
04:47<thor_>why not ?
04:47<billytwowilly>Both my gf's parents are teachers up there. I've heard some horror stories and I've seen some of the problems myself.
04:48<thor_>with natives?
04:48<billytwowilly>whitehorse has 3 good bars and a population of maybe 20 thousand. on a wednesday night we went out to the bar, hit all three of them and there was probably 2500 people out there with us in total.
04:48<billytwowilly>on a WEDNESDAY.
04:48<thor_>yeah
04:48<thor_>the locals do like to drink
04:49<billytwowilly>The natives do pose some problems, but those same problems afflict the other people living up there as well.
04:49<thor_>but, hey, that's not your problem ...
04:49<billytwowilly>the fetal alcohol children that would be in my kid's class would be my problem.
04:50<billytwowilly>Plus there just isn't the resources that there are down here. The net connection sucks, the schools computer labs were old macs, and the food was really expensive.
04:50<thor_>your children's education is _your_ responsibilty
04:51<billytwowilly>Exactly why the fetal alcohol kids would be my problem.
04:51<billytwowilly>I'd rather put them through school down here where they atleast have access to academic highschools like Archbishop Macdonald or the public one whose name escapes me.
04:51<billytwowilly>I'm a big believer in public education.
04:52<billytwowilly>It's the great equalizer.
04:52<o_cee>then you should move to sweden.
04:52<thor_>where they think the world is "homogenous" and "perfect" ?
04:52<billytwowilly>That would just lead to depression.
04:53<thor_>I'm in downtown DC
04:53<thor_>Washington!
04:53<thor_>DC
04:53<thor_>number 2
04:53<linagee>does 33R means 33 ohms?
04:53<linagee>isn't it some weird european way of saying it?
04:53<billytwowilly>thor_: how does it feel to live in the city with the highest aid's infection rate per capita?
04:53<o_cee>it means 33^5
04:53<thor_>yeah, it's a total mess
04:54<linagee>o_cee: 33^5?
04:54<o_cee>linagee: how's anyone supposed to be able to answer when you ask something totally unrelated to anything?
04:54<linagee>o_cee: i thought you guys in here were smart!
04:54<linagee>:)
04:54<billytwowilly>we only get the wacky news about DC up here. I pulled that tid bit of info from the guys on the classic rock station talking about the plan to put free condom dispensers in restrooms in DC.
04:54<o_cee>depends on the context of course
04:54<thor_>hey
04:55<thor_>I'm "downtown" DC
04:55<linagee>DC has a high aid's infection rate? i don't get it
04:55<thor_>but I'm in a rich and largely white part of downtown
04:55<linagee>thor_: you're rich?
04:56<billytwowilly>that kind of bugs me about cities.
04:56<thor_>well, I dunno, define rich ?
04:56<o_cee>that's such a stupid question
04:56<thor_>2 figures
04:56<billytwowilly>having rich neighbourhoods. It's much more efficient to blend housing.
04:56<thor_>3 figures
04:56<thor_>4 figures
04:56<thor_>5 figures
04:56<linagee>thor_: 6 figures
04:56<o_cee>lots of love?
04:56<o_cee>hmm
04:56<linagee>a 2 figure income is not rich. lol
04:56<o_cee>i need breakfast
04:56<thor_>what the hell are "figures" ?
04:57<linagee>look, i make $10/yr! i'm 'rich' :)
04:57<billytwowilly>thor_: heh;) I was just going to say that at 2 figures I doubt my dad would be able to help you;)
04:57<o_cee>simpson family?
04:57<o_cee>linagee: compared to african courtries?
04:57<linagee>thor_: are you upper-lower class or upper-middle?
04:57<o_cee>linagee: defined by who
04:57<o_cee>argh
04:57<thor_>eeek
04:57<thor_>look people
04:58<linagee>thor_: rich = >$200,000/yr
04:58<billytwowilly>linagee: If you really want to be accurate you can't just go by salary. You have to go by salary/price level of that area.
04:58<thor_>we should not actually be discussing my tax situatuation !!
04:58<o_cee>thor_: i don't think linagee read that part.
04:58<linagee>thor_ is declaring 5 dogs as dependants. :)
04:58<billytwowilly>thor_: Sorry.
04:58<thor_>I have no assets
04:58<thor_>no income
04:59<linagee>thor_: no job?
04:59<thor_>and no offshore interests
04:59-!-_kch_ [~kch@175.Red-80-37-138.pooles.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
04:59<thor_>I am completely poor
04:59<o_cee>linagee: do you always ask so many qurstions?
04:59<thor_>and have no sources of income
04:59<linagee>o_cee: only when someone says they live in a rich neighborhood
04:59<Octane>im so cursed
04:59<linagee>thor_: how old are you then
05:00<thor_>I'm 4
05:00<Octane>lol
05:00<thor_>(heh)
05:00<o_cee>wtf linagee
05:00<Octane>4
05:00<Octane>tee
05:00<Octane>n
05:00<Octane>:)
05:00<o_cee>i only thought people where that jelous of money here in sweden
05:00<linagee>thor_: and you're able to carry on intelligent IRC conversation?
05:00<linagee>thor_: wow. must have super-genes
05:00<billytwowilly>I was in the paris hilton sex tape.
05:00<thor_>well, I'm almost 5
05:00<Octane>billytwowilly next time turn the lights on
05:00<linagee>thor_: and your rich parents have a computer in your room
05:00<o_cee>i saw that clip, wtf is it??
05:01<Octane>listen to this... i tried 10 different installs in the last 3 hours... fedora, redhat, and debian
05:01<linagee>thor_: so you can learn about the dangers of pr0n early in life
05:01<Octane>all of them crashed at one point or another
05:01<Octane>its my god damn epox board
05:01<linagee>Octane: try this: (it's easy) memtest86
05:01<Octane>linagee: checked. np
05:01<linagee>Octane: if it fails, then you have problems. serious serious problems
05:01<linagee>Octane: np with memtest86? how many runs?
05:01<billytwowilly>o_cee: She the heiress of the Hilton hotel fortune. It's pretty dumb what the press has done with it though.
05:01<Octane>its this board
05:02<Octane>linagee: two
05:02<linagee>Octane: does the bios say the chip is getting toasty?
05:02<Octane>no, at a cool 39 :)
05:02<linagee>Octane: F?
05:02<Octane>C!
05:02<linagee>fahrenheit?
05:02<Octane>its this board man
05:02<o_cee>billytwowilly: hm, well, allright. private move that got out or somehting? hehhe
05:02<linagee>Octane: that's odd......
05:03<linagee>Octane: memtest86 works, yet you are having problems
05:03<Octane>linagee: check this out
05:03<linagee>Octane: try underclocking?
05:03<billytwowilly>o_cee: Yah, she and one of her previous boyfriends made it in the privacy of their bedroom and now it's on the net.
05:03<Octane>02:11.00 <Octane> im gonna time my mythtv install
05:03<Octane>02:11.08 <Octane> start 2:11
05:03<o_cee>billytwowilly: heh, allright. haven't read anything about it here
05:03<Octane>05:03.28
05:03<Octane>linagee: its the board, im sure of it
05:03<linagee>Octane: so it's just going slow, not unstable
05:04<billytwowilly>o_cee: I knew who she was before it got out because I had read some stuff on the hiltons a long time ago.
05:04<Octane>but thank you :)
05:04<linagee>Octane: does it crash, or just go slow?
05:04<Octane>crash right after formatting
05:04<linagee>Octane: and you have a good ISO burn? (md5sum checked?)
05:04<Octane>yup. md5 all chekcked out... even reburned cd1 of fedora just to be on the safe side
05:05<linagee>Octane: sorry, it's just hard to believe that a mobo that passes memtest86 would have problems installing or doing OS stuff
05:05<Octane>i think its the board's agp
05:05<linagee>Octane: physical harddrive problems?
05:05<linagee>:)
05:05<Octane>possible not likely
05:05<linagee>Octane: hearing any funny noises? click click clunk or anything?
05:05<billytwowilly>hmm. in mysql.txt on both the backend and frontend I have the ip of the backend set as the hostname and on the backend in the backend setup I have the ip set in both places that had 127.0.0.1 previously. I'm still getting this error: Unable to connect to database!
05:05<billytwowilly>Driver error was [1/-1]:
05:05<billytwowilly>QMYSQL3: Unable to connect" any ideas?
05:05<Octane>1month old drive that was just fine
05:06<linagee>Octane: hrm. i wouldn't necessarily go too much on age of a drive to say when it's going to die. (could be factory defect)
05:06<billytwowilly>did I just miss something in the docs?
05:06<linagee>Octane: i guess it's a driver conflict or something then.
05:06<linagee>Octane: crummy mobo implementation or bios or something
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05:07<linagee>Octane: might try for a bios flash and/or different OS?
05:07<billytwowilly>the backend machine is also currently running a frontend.
05:07<linagee>Octane: (of course, if they didn't fix the problem and it continues to be a bad implementation.....)
05:07<Octane>linagee: flashed to latest and tried 3 different o/s'
05:07<linagee>Octane: OK. you have my authority. trash the board. ;)
05:07* o_cee is away: Gone
05:07<Octane>LOL
05:07<Octane>you know what i should do
05:07<Octane>i should test it with my pci video card
05:07<linagee>Octane: i fully support you ebaying it for half what you paid, or taking it back to the store and getting your money back if possible. :)
05:08<linagee>Octane: is it onboard video?
05:08<Octane>no, its not
05:08<linagee>Octane: are you using something really generic and supported for video?
05:08<linagee>Octane: did you check to see what the crashing error was? hrm....
05:08<Octane>linagee: this box was running on an asus a7v8x-x great but i wanted to switch boards to stop ivtv's dma erorrs
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05:09<linagee>Octane: afaik, fedora is a bit unstable like? what other OSes you try?
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05:10<Octane>redhat and debian
05:10<linagee>Octane: when you are trying this install and it crashes, do you have PCI cards in any slots? (besides video in agp)
05:10<Octane>yah, i do... i tried taking them out too
05:10<Octane>just with video card
05:10<Octane>linagee no crashing error just a freeze
05:10<linagee>Octane: anytime i ask something, you're like "i've already tried that". LOL
05:11<Octane>i know dude! ive been doing this for 2 hours :)
05:11<Octane>err 3
05:11<linagee>Octane: maybe it's not crashed...? try switching to another console?
05:11<Octane>i swear im gonna rma refund the asus on newegg.... maybe the cpu too *corss fingers*... get a pentium mobo + chip and be done with it.
05:11<linagee>Octane: try another console?
05:12<Octane>cant its a hard freeze in the installer
05:12<linagee>Octane: ctrl+alt+F1 or something?
05:12<thor_>ok, quick poll, how does/sould Chutt make money off of MythTV?
05:12<o_cee>donation
05:12<Octane>thor_ i think he should take donations
05:12<thor_>bah
05:12<linagee>thor_: Chutt is very nice and he is expecting lots of christmas presents
05:12<o_cee>:)
05:12<billytwowilly>thor_: find a patron just like in medieval times;)
05:12<thor_>crap and crap
05:12<Octane>during format in Fedora and right before starting to copy packages in rh
05:13<o_cee>go gentoo
05:13<billytwowilly>thor_: Why does chutt have to make money on mythtv? I thought he was an "overpaid software engineer";)
05:13<Octane>livecd-basic-x86-2003011400.iso
05:13<thor_>how does Chutt make 6 figures?
05:13<Octane>look its sitting on my hdd :)
05:13<Octane>o_cee
05:13<linagee>thor_: chutt works as a slimy accountant
05:13<o_cee>Octane
05:13<linagee>thor_: and shaves pennies in software programs.
05:13<Octane>o_cee: hello
05:14<thor_>Chutt works for his money
05:14<o_cee>Octane: hello
05:14<Octane>i see nothing wrong with having a paypal link on mythtv.org
05:14<linagee>thor_: if $0.051 + $0.01 then give chutt the extra $0.001
05:14<linagee>:)
05:14<Octane>im scared of gentoo
05:14<o_cee>Octane: muhaheheheha
05:14<Octane>i need to load it up for the first time with someone holding my hand... not just over irc
05:14<knight->anyone know how to strip html to text in perl?
05:14<o_cee>just print the documentation, it's good
05:15<thor_>bah
05:15<Octane>i know how to strip the html in php.. =/
05:15<knight->yeah i do too
05:15<Octane>lol
05:15<knight->I'm not up on my perl these days
05:15<knight->ditched perl long ago
05:15<Octane>my perl knowledge does not extend past formmail.cgi
05:15<linagee>Octane: This MythTV brought to you by Chutt and CVS authors around the world. MythTV, it's that thing you're watching.
05:16<linagee>Octane: i can see the fake advertising inserts now. lol
05:16<Octane>linagee: actually, for me it has been the thing i've not been watching but thats okay, ill get there. ive just had terrible luck with hardware
05:16<linagee>Octane: hauppauge?
05:16<Octane>check this out... first time around (and the next few ones) i was using alsa .9.8 with sb live
05:16<Octane>my box kept crashing
05:16<linagee>Octane: bah. alsa. bah. sb live.
05:16<Octane>then i figured that out finally and had dma errors because of my kt400 chipset
05:17<linagee>Octane: use some real hardware. like a generic CMI or VIA chipset. lol
05:17<Octane>now i try with my epox baord and the agp is messed up
05:17<Octane>i have the most ghetto hardware, i swear
05:17<o_cee>thor_: you did the theme stuff for myth.. it's not possible to right-alignt text, is it?
05:17<thor_>o_cee, at 5 am, I have no idea
05:18* o_cee gives thor a big hug
05:18<linagee>thor_: it's only 2am on the west side.
05:18<thor_>yah
05:18<Octane>i would love to see a poll of mythtv users and their o/s choice
05:18<linagee>thor_: i mean, err... "weside"
05:18<Octane>i wonder what percent use gentoo
05:18<Octane>thor_ where do you live
05:18<o_cee>go to bed and i'll go get breakfast.. talk to you later
05:18<linagee>Octane: thor lives in DC
05:18<thor_>yup
05:18<linagee>Octane: near rich people. but he is not rich himself being only 4.
05:18<Octane>lol
05:18<Octane>4
05:18<Octane>teen
05:18<Octane>remember!
05:19<linagee>Octane: yes. he has mutant super-genes
05:19<linagee>Octane: he bought them at baby gap
05:19<Octane>my International relations prof always shows off about how her 6 year old son reads the material we read for our 300-level course
05:19<thor_>this is all getting a bit complicated
05:19<Octane>maybe her son is thor
05:19<linagee>thor_: nice jeans. super genes.
05:19<thor_>hey
05:19<billytwowilly>hehehehe
05:19<thor_>if you all ask really nice
05:20<linagee>candy?
05:20<thor_>I'll give you a URL to see my daughter
05:20<Octane>thor_ what o/s are you on
05:20<linagee>oh wait, that's not possible through the internet. :(
05:20<Octane>your mythtv i mean
05:20<thor_>only because I'm only almost comatose with fatigue
05:20<linagee>thor_: sonicair me some candy!
05:20<o_cee>thor_: that would be sweet of you :) i'd love that. i could show a pic of my cat :)
05:20<linagee>thor_: (sonicair = superfast ups service for people with $$$ to burn)
05:20<billytwowilly>thor_: Ok, just as long as it isn't paris hilton. I'm sick of her.
05:21<Octane>o_cee you use gentoo for your mythbox?
05:21<o_cee>Octane: sure do
05:21<thor_>hmmmm
05:21<Octane>billytwowilly you see her new show?
05:21<o_cee>Octane: actually, it was my first real linux install ever.. (for a long time at least)
05:21<billytwowilly>Octane: I think everyone has.
05:21* linagee uses 733Mhz / 384MB / Debian unstable / PVR250 mythbox
05:21<Octane>its so pathetic
05:21<Octane>ugh
05:21<Octane>o_cee O_O
05:22<o_cee>Linux dragon 2.4.20-gentoo-r7 #2 Tue Oct 14 14:50:25 CEST 2003 i686 Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.00GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
05:22<Octane>berry berry nice
05:22<o_cee>yeah
05:23* linagee plays with mouser.com building hardware and stuff
05:23<Octane>okay. i think im gonan sell this box to my mom minus the pvr and then take the money and buy a pentium cpu and mobo with it
05:23<Octane>is that messed up?
05:23<linagee>Octane: !??!?!!
05:23<linagee>WF
05:23<linagee>WTF
05:23<Octane>LOL
05:23<linagee>that IS messed up
05:23<Octane>seriously!
05:23<linagee>sell a box to your mom?!?!
05:23<Octane>she agreed
05:23<linagee>what kind of kid would sell a box to their parent
05:23<Octane>this 22 year old
05:24<linagee>(especially if the mobo is so shoddy)
05:24<Octane>no, ill put in the asus in it!
05:24<linagee>Octane: i'm 22 years old too. i'd never sell shoddy equipment to mother
05:24<Octane>thats a good board!
05:24<o_cee>thor_: no?
05:24<Octane>this epox is whats causing the problems
05:24<linagee>Octane: linus was 22 years old when he made linux. i don't see you with a homemade kernel? lol
05:24<thor_>o_cee, http://yara.sigvaldason.net/
05:25<linagee>(or was it some other age.... close to 22 anyway)
05:25<Octane>that one dude who cracked DVD encryption was 15!
05:25<o_cee>thor_: very cute! :) how old is she?
05:25<thor_>19 months
05:25<Octane>hey thor
05:25<o_cee>i've got a.. uhm, my sisters daughter.. that's about 3
05:25<Octane>my girlfriend is dominican
05:25<linagee>Octane: LOL. now that i find funny
05:25<linagee>Octane: a 15 year old cracking encryption
05:26<Octane>i've been to DR. stayed in Boca Chica
05:26<linagee>Octane: i could too if my parents were uber rich and they bought me o-scopes for x-mas and such
05:26<thor_>this was in Punta Cana
05:26<Octane>she is so adorable!! very nice
05:26<o_cee>shes adorable
05:26<o_cee>heh :)
05:26* linagee wants an o-scope very badly.
05:26<Octane>youve been to lebanon?
05:26<linagee>and an unlocked scanner. gotta have one of those.
05:26<thor_>many times
05:26<Octane>thor_ are you lebanese?
05:26<billytwowilly>thor_: what resort did you stay at?
05:27<thor_>Octane, no .. but my wife is
05:27<billytwowilly>is it not possible to have two frontends connect to one backend at the same time?
05:27<Octane>thor_: cool. im Israeli :)
05:27<linagee>does anyone have a few hundred dollars so i can buy an o-scope? :)
05:27<thor_>Octane
05:27<thor_>...
05:27<thor_>I've been to the southern Lebanese border
05:28<linagee>Octane: it's quite easy actually what the 15 year old did. it's not too hard to break any hardware encryption. eventually the device has to output stuff on some pin or other...
05:28<thor_>and I've been to Israel's northern border
05:28<thor_>just folks
05:28<linagee>Octane: of course, they now put that sort of stuff on the fastest buses so it's very hard to read.
05:28<Octane>that same 15 year old cracked the ipod encoding scheme too
05:29<Octane>do you speak arabic?
05:29<linagee>Octane: i have some island property i want to sell you too....
05:29<linagee>lol
05:29<linagee>Octane: SURE the same kid did it. SURE.
05:29<Octane>linagee: i swear... like 3 years ltaer there is a slashdot article about it
05:30<Octane>linagee: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/11/22/1948253&mode=nested&tid=107&tid=141&tid=187&tid=188
05:30<linagee>Octane: slashdot: "little uber kid with rich parents and unlimited hardware hacking budget cracks lots of devices"
05:30<Octane>look!
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05:30* Octane doesnt think that he should have told thor his ethnicity
05:31<linagee>Octane: "it doesn't yet work as advertised"
05:31<Octane>its alright though im an american citizen and have been living here for the past 14 years
05:31<linagee>Octane: are you one of those people in india that they outsource all of our IT jobs to?
05:31<thor_>Octane, not well, but my wife does (of course)
05:32<Octane>linagee no, im one of those people in new york who they outsource all of the IT jobs to
05:32<linagee>Octane: that's good. at least you're only one person and not another country.
05:33<linagee>Octane: unless...
05:33<linagee>Octane: you're not that "Video Professor" guy, are you?
05:33<Octane>lol wtf
05:34<linagee>Octane: jeopardy: "What is a lame infomercial?" http://www.videoprofessor.com/
05:34<Octane>lol
05:34<Octane>no im not but when i was in 9th grade i used all my allowance to buy mega memory
05:34<linagee>Octane: mega memory?
05:34<thor_>Octane, are you in Israel/Palestine now ?
05:35<Octane>some shit thats supposed to make you have better memory
05:35<linagee>thor_: i thought you said new york!?
05:35<Octane>* Octane doesnt think that he should have told thor his ethnicity
05:35<Octane><Octane> its alright though im an american citizen and have been living here for the past 14 years
05:35<linagee>14 years.... hrm
05:35<thor_>wow
05:35<Octane>my dad lives there. 2 brothers. a sister. friends of course.
05:36<thor_><linagee> thor_: i thought you said new york!?
05:36<linagee>Octane: which you keep in contact with through encrypted SSH channels? LOL
05:36<thor_>nope
05:36<thor_>hey
05:36<Octane>thor_ i live in new york
05:36<thor_>no issues here
05:36<Octane>wanna here a crazy story
05:36<thor_>Octane, superb
05:36<Octane>so i sent some problem ive been ahving to the ivtv mailing list
05:36<Octane>and the next day i get an email
05:37<Octane>from a subscriber on that list
05:37<Octane>who says something to thte extent of: i saw your website in your signature. i visited.
05:37<Octane>i saw you're israeli, into politics, etc
05:37<Octane>and he wrote quite a long email
05:37<Octane>telling me his views on the arab-israeli conflict
05:37<Octane>etc.
05:37<Octane>and asked for my opionio
05:37<Octane>n
05:37<Octane>it was pretty cool
05:38<linagee>Octane: 14 years? so you're like 40 years old?
05:38<Octane>totally out of the blue
05:38<thor_>ok
05:38<Octane>im 22 dude
05:38<thor_>heh
05:38<linagee>odd
05:38<linagee>just so odd
05:38<linagee>you were 8 when you moved?
05:38<Octane>yes
05:38<thor_>Octane, Jerusalem?
05:38<linagee>Octane: you don't lose many friends when you're 8. they all move away from you anyway.
05:38<Octane>thor_: Tel-Aviv
05:38<thor_>cool
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05:39<thor_>it is an amazing city
05:39<thor_>unbelievable
05:39<Octane>sure is "non-stop city" is its nickname
05:39<Octane>actually, literal translation: a city without any stops
05:39<thor_>Octane, some day, come to Beirut, same vibe !
05:39<aliz>When I try to change Time Format in the apperance settings, the time format in the OSD when watching LiveTV still remains unchanged. Is this a known bug or should I file a bug report?
05:40<Octane>I wish I could. I've been to Egypt
05:40<linagee>Octane: wait, so you're on the east coast too. 5:40am over there for you also. hehehe
05:40<Octane>linagee: yah where r u
05:40<linagee>Octane: 'weside'
05:40<Octane>iight
05:40<linagee>Octane: i mean, west side
05:40<thor_>hey
05:40<linagee>Octane: california
05:41<linagee>Octane: san diego. tech capital of the world.
05:41<linagee>(*coughs* NOT!)
05:41<Octane>i was about to say
05:41<Octane>maybe north of tech capital
05:41<linagee>what i really mean is, everyone likes to THINK we are
05:41<linagee>lol
05:42<thor_>CA _is_ SF and Napa
05:42<Octane>thor_ check ur pm
05:43* linagee does not like that the US is as least 2 years behind on technology. :(
05:43<linagee>i mean, look at our cellphones and internet bandwidth
05:43<linagee>and education system. lol
05:44<Octane>tell me about it, i just came back from a semester in japan
05:44<linagee>Octane: where they had videophones and 18 hour schooldays? lol
05:45<linagee>Octane: and VDSL? (not yet afaik, soon)
05:45<Octane>yup :D
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05:47<linagee>bah.
05:47<linagee>3k3 means 3.3k ohm
05:47* linagee hates european schematic notation
05:57<o_cee>anyone still awake
05:57<o_cee>?
05:57<Octane>=)
05:57<Octane>im brushig my teeth
05:58<o_cee>https://dragon.dyndns.tv/mythtv/gantnewfont3.png
05:58<o_cee>what about that font then?
05:58<o_cee>don't know if you've seen the other two suggestions
05:58<o_cee>actually this last one looks really good
05:58<Octane>wow o_cee that looks great!
05:59<choenig>o_cee: I'd prefer that font over the other two examples :)
05:59<Octane>i prefer it over the first one defeintely
05:59<o_cee>yeah, i think so too
05:59<Octane>and over the second one too
05:59<o_cee>yepp
05:59<Octane>yah, third one definitely
05:59<o_cee>me thinkgs so too
05:59<o_cee>this is much more narrow, so it allows for longer texts as well
06:00<o_cee>another question is if i should stick a small icon at the left hand side of all the menuitems..
06:00<choenig>unfortunately I have a bad flickering problem with the black borders of your fonts
06:00<o_cee>i'll actually give that a try
06:01<o_cee>:/
06:01<o_cee>hardware/qt/x or soemthing i guess
06:01<choenig>on my TV
06:01<o_cee>because it's 1px?
06:01<choenig>on the CRT it looks great
06:01<choenig>probably
06:01<o_cee>try making it 2px
06:01<o_cee>the selected item is 3, does it flicker?
06:02<choenig>I'm not able to check this ATM
06:02<o_cee>okay
06:02<choenig>but I'll have a look
06:02<o_cee>let me know
06:02<choenig>yeah
06:31<jeffpc>hmm....
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06:31<jeffpc>if I record something, and then want to watch TV, I get "MythTV is using all available inputs..."
06:32<jeffpc>and nothing is using it...
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06:48<jeffpc>the backend is doing something really strange
06:50<jeffpc>btw, that CVS from yesterday...
06:56<jeffpc>hmm....
06:57<jeffpc>if I restart both backend and frontend, play live tv, press escape, and try to play live tv again, the frontend loses the connection to the backend:
06:57<jeffpc>003-12-05 06:54:52 Using XV port 103
06:57<jeffpc>2003-12-05 06:54:52 Changing from None to WatchingLiveTV
06:57<jeffpc>2003-12-05 06:54:58 ReadStringList timeout (quick).
06:57<jeffpc>Remote encoder not responding.
06:57<jeffpc>2003-12-05 06:54:58 Changing from WatchingLiveTV to None
06:57<jeffpc>2003-12-05 06:54:58 Changing from None to None
06:57<jeffpc>2003-12-05 06:55:04 ReadStringList timeout (quick).
06:57<jeffpc>Connection to backend server lost
06:57<jeffpc>2003-12-05 06:55:07 Changing from None to None
06:58<jeffpc>then, if I try to do anything (even play recorded stuff) the frontend freezes
06:59<jeffpc>if I restart only the frontend, I can't do anything
06:59<jeffpc>the backend is running (ps and top list it) but it is apparently not responding
07:00<jeffpc>btw, after the restart of the frontend, the backend doesn't add anything to the log
07:00<jeffpc>2003-12-05 06:54:51 adding: jeff as a player 0
07:00<jeffpc>2003-12-05 06:54:51 adding: jeff as a remote ringbuffer
07:00<jeffpc>2003-12-05 06:54:51 Changing from None to WatchingLiveTV
07:00<jeffpc>2003-12-05 06:54:57 Changing from WatchingLiveTV to None
07:01<jeffpc>that's the end of the backend log
07:03<jeffpc>ok, I have to go....if anyone has any suggestions, please /msg me, I'll read them/try them when I get back home
07:04<jeffpc>btw, I'm using Hauppague WinTV-Radio
07:04<jeffpc>running 2.6.0-test11 kernel
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08:01<hEximal>ahh!
08:01<hEximal>Zap2It changed their web format about 3 weeks ago. You need xmltv 0.5.24
08:01<hEximal>for it to work.
08:01<hEximal>:)
08:01<hEximal>i was wondering what the hell was going on
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08:20<choenig>dir
08:20<choenig>arg
08:23<hEximal>:)
08:56* o_cee is back (gone 03:49:21)
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09:50<janek>has anyone here got mythtv cvs working with dvb-t in the UK?
09:50<janek>I'm having lots of problems getting it to work and could use some help...
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09:52<janek>or dvb-t in any country, for that matter ;)
09:52<janek>(with a budget card, I should mention, so I need to figure out the transport stream filtering)
09:53<janek>which setup seems to be broken for since the database field isn't called use_ts any longer but dvb_swfilter apparently?
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10:14<janek>hmm, part of the problem may be that I thought that dvb-t is qam when it is actually ofdm
10:17<janek>does anybody know what the symbol rate is supposed to be though? None of the other linux tools seem to use it...
10:17<janek>(I should mention that I've got the card working fine with tzap and dvbstream/mplayer)
10:17<hEximal>hmm
10:18<hEximal>I'm clueless
10:18<hEximal>I just installed .12
10:18<hEximal>the directory listing runs so much better
10:19<janek>heximal: I presume you're using an analog card? :)
10:19<hEximal>pvr250
10:20<hEximal>yeah
10:21-!-robbie_ [~rob@ESS-p-144-138-94-149.mega.tmns.net.au] has joined #mythtv
10:21<janek>I have pretty much narrowed down my current problem to the way I've put the information about dvb channels in the database, I think, as it is stopping in DVBChannel::ParseQuery
10:22<hEximal>how much different is it for digital?
10:23<janek>there's some extra tables in the database that you currently have to edit by hand
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10:23<janek>and it's very hard to find information on what the entries in those tables mean
10:24<janek>and they have changed completely since the last time anyone has written howtos on it, it seems ;)
10:24<janek>so I'm having to pretty much figure it all out from the source code
10:24<janek>(which I guess means I should write a new howto if I manage to figure it out ;))
10:25<janek>it also means making about 100 inserts by hand :(
10:26<janek>(but it's hard making an automatic script since the channel names that the scanning tools provide are different from the ones that mythtv gets from scan_uk)
10:27<hEximal>so your situation is fairly unique?
10:27<janek>and unfortunately nobody thought to put a field in the dvb_channel table to store the dvb cards name for the channels, which would make automatic tools for this kind of thing much easier
10:27<janek>hEximal: I'm not sure, there seems to be quite a few people on the mailing list using dvb-t in the uk
10:27<hEximal>well, I guess support will only get better for all cards...
10:27<janek>absolutely, dvb support is really new
10:28<janek>I'm not really complaining (too much;)), I was just hoping to find someone else who had already figured it all out ;)
10:28<hEximal>.12 looks clearer than .11 to me
10:28<hEximal>maybe i'm just imagining it
10:28-!-Zeran [~public@CPE-144-136-248-150.wa.bigpond.net.au] has joined #mythtv
10:28<hEximal>because i'm using the same driver
10:28<janek>don't know, I haven't really seen earlier versions
10:29<janek>I've pretty much got to use the cvs version for dvb I think...
10:29<hEximal>yeah
10:29<hEximal>i do the good ol rpm install
10:29<hEximal>hehe
10:29<hEximal>well I do have to build xmltv
10:29<hEximal>but that's easy
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10:30<janek>indeed
10:30<janek>actually mythtv is pretty simple to compile also
10:31<janek>and much faster now that I'm use cachecc ;)
10:31<janek>(I've had to rebuild it quite a few times trying to figure out where my configuration fails)
10:34<kvandivo>hmm.. i see gentoo just released qt 3.2.3 into the stable tree.. guess my computers are going to be busy today
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10:35<janek>kvandivo: you've got several computers running gentoo? In that case, are you using or are you considering using distcc with cachecc over NFS?
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10:35<hEximal>Jerry Springer should just have a boxing ring on his stage
10:36<kvandivo>i'm not using it.. does that system handle each computer having different make.conf files? (all are different generations)
10:36<janek>hEximal: heh, that'd be interesting
10:36<janek>kvandivo: should do, though you have to have similar versions of gcc running on each
10:36<kvandivo>i'm sharing portage dist trees via nfs to reduce downloading, but that's about it
10:36<janek>(ie, with compatible binary interface)
10:36<kvandivo>i'll have to look into it, then
10:37<mikegrb>I should do the same :/
10:37<mikegrb>just never had the time
10:37<mikegrb>stuff take too much time
10:37<janek>I haven't tried it (don't use gentoo since my computer is way too slow to compile everything) but in theory it should allow each .o file to only be compiled once for all of the computers
10:37<kvandivo>not enough free time. :(
10:37<mikegrb>there isn't enough to begin with
10:38<janek>I've just been looking into it lately since I'm having to compile mythtv and my kernel so often ;)
10:38<kvandivo>.o files should differ depending on make flags, I would have thought.. I'm marching to p2, p3, and p4 and i wouldn't have expected equivalent .o files
10:38<janek>I've only got one computer at home though so I may end up trying to use distcc with a remote computer over adsl, which may or may not be advantageous
10:39<mikegrb>janek: I know someone doing that
10:39<mikegrb>kvandivo: no :/ though you should get help with distcc
10:39<janek>kvandivo: not all of them will, basically cachecc let's the compiler do the precompilation first and checks if the precompiled .c/cpp file is the same or not, if it's the same it uses the cached .o
10:39<mikegrb>oh that is spiffy
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10:40<janek>but presumably not all of your make.conf settings will apply for all .o files in the system, so you should get some benefit still
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10:40<kvandivo>interesting.. i'll have to dig.. anything i can do to reduce compilation on the 'box will help
10:40<mikegrb>kvandivo: I hear debian reduces it
10:41<mikegrb>kvandivo: wouldn't know though ;)
10:41<janek>mikegrb: do you know if it helped a lot for them? (unfortunately the remote box that I have easy access to doesn't have the same generation of gcc, so it makes it a tad complicated)
10:41<kvandivo>it would actually rock to be able to do that with myth.. my main frontend compiles in a snap, but my backend takes forever
10:41<mikegrb>janek: I think it helped I couldn't tell you by how much
10:41<janek>cachecc is a huge benefit for that just by itself, I've been using it for that since yesterday
10:41<kvandivo>i had to wait an hour last night to submit that patch for it compile on my backend so that i could test it properly
10:42<mikegrb>:/
10:42<janek>cachecc is also very neat since you can do a make clean and still take advantage of the precompiled .os
10:43<Zeran>any PAL people here?
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10:46<kvandivo>gee... cachecc looks pretty simple to use..
10:48<janek>kvandivo: it is indeed
10:48<janek>I've got it set up with symbolic links /usr/local/bin/ which makes it work with all makefile configurations
10:48<kvandivo>but no ebuilds for it in stable, yet...
10:49<janek>(mainly because I couldn't figure out how to change the compiler settings in the mythtv makefiles ;))
10:49<kvandivo>i suspect you could tweak something in the .pro file
10:49<janek>really? That's strange you'd have thought gentoo people would kill for a c cache ;)
10:49<kvandivo>not even in unstable..
10:49* kvandivo heads to bugs.gentoo
10:50<janek>there's another c cache program that they might use, something like ccache1 or so
10:50<kvandivo>zarro boogs found for cachecc strange
10:50<janek>cachecc1
10:51<kvandivo>ok.. cachecc isn't there.. but ccache is
10:53<kvandivo>Portage 2.0.46-r11+ will automatically take advantage of ccache with
10:53<kvandivo> * no additional steps.
10:55<janek>ah, well I guess it's all automatic already anyway :)
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10:56<janek>No wonder I'm having trouble figuring out the dvb channel table, coderate_hp is called fec in it and constellation is called modulation ;)
11:01<janek>I don't suppose anybody might have an idea what "serviceid | networkid | providerid | transportid" might be?
11:01<janek>that's the only ones I can't figure out now
11:03<janek>well it managed to tune into the channel anyway :)
11:03<janek>I'm clearly making progress
11:04<janek>(can't really test if I can watch TV yet though as I'm not in front of the machine ;))
11:07* janek tries to record something through mythweb ;)
11:08<janek>hmm, that's not working
11:08<kvandivo>actually, i don't think distcc would help much with myth.. sounds like distcc gets its gains from using -j, and myth doesn't support that
11:09<janek>it doesn't? oh
11:09<janek>it wouldn't help much then indeed
11:09<janek>cachecc definitely does though
11:09<janek>ccache I mean
11:10<janek>though in my case it would still help a little by running the compilation on a faster computer ;)
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11:21<janek>hmm, recording doesn't seem to quite work (the file is still 0 bytes)
11:21<janek>though strangely I'm not getting any error messages
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11:25<janek>wooohoooo, I got it working :)
11:27<hEximal>janek: nice
11:27<janek>presumably if it's recording it'll work for the rest too...
11:27<hEximal>ever use transcode?
11:27<janek>heximal: not within mythtv, I used it a very long time ago once for something else...
11:27<janek>I normally use mencoder for those kinds of things
11:28<hEximal>i'll have to rtfm on it
11:31<janek>though I suppose I'll have to figure out how to use transcode in mythtv given that the DVB streams have a bitrate of no less than 8.256Mbps here ;)
11:32<janek>(for BBC One anyway)
11:33<janek>so that's like 3.7GB/h
11:34<hEximal>yeah
11:34<hEximal>that's an awful lot
11:36<janek>should be nice quality though, that's more than a lot of DVDs ;)
11:37<janek>(though I presume it's realtime encoding most of the time, so that's not as nicE)
11:41<hEximal>heh
11:41<hEximal>i just transcoded and it was bigger than the original
11:42<Zeran>are any of you guys familiar with mythtv and PAL?
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11:43<choenig>Zeran: what is your problem?
11:43<Zeran>basically Im trying to setup mythtv with a pvr350 in australia
11:43<Zeran>after a long struggle I think I've sorted out ivtv.. I can do the various tests there for video in / out / tuning / etc
11:43<choenig>I don't have a pvrx50
11:44<Zeran>but, mythtv live tv is a black screen.. I assume I need to make it do PAL somehow
11:48<Zeran>fair enough
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11:49* kvandivo hugs janek.
11:50<kvandivo>Everyone: sit down and listen. If you aren't using ccache, you need to be. I just compiled mythtv, did a make clean distclean, and recompiled.
11:50<janek>;)
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11:50<kvandivo>it went so fast the compiles were just scrolling off the screen. it only slowed down to do linking
11:51<kvandivo>it really really rocks
11:51<janek>unfortunately it does seem to slow down a fair bit when you compile the QT C++ stuff if you've made any changes though, at least for me (since a lot of them are interdependent...)
11:52<janek>lavcdeint
11:52<kvandivo>ya, but there are lots of other files (like a lot of the lib directories) that will just fly now
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11:52<janek>indeed
11:53<janek>it does save _a lot_ of time
11:53<kvandivo>i suspect this will make me quite a bit more productive. I like doing clean distcleans, and this makes it very painless
11:54<hEximal>janek: i'd be happy just going to divx
11:54<janek>hEximal: that's what I'll probably end up doing, I guess
11:54<hEximal>my drive is only 30gig
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11:54<hEximal>atm
11:54<janek>though I've only got a 700MHz Duron so that limits the amount of transcoding I can do ;)
11:55<hEximal>yep
11:55<hEximal>1200Mhz here
11:55<hEximal>tbird
11:55<janek>I'll really have to get a faster processor at some point
11:55<janek>also because I can't actually decode the mpeg2 and deinterlace it on the fly
11:55<janek>I have to use the XvMC extension on my graphics card to make it run fast enough
12:00<janek>I'm also kinda pissed off at NVidia for not providing a 720x572 video mode for the tv-out ;)
12:01<hEximal>janek: at least they have linux support
12:01<hEximal>;)
12:10<janek>true
12:10<janek>though they haven't updated the drivers for months
12:11<janek>and I've got to use the previous-to-most-recent driver since they broke overscan support on the tv-out in the most recent version...
12:15* janek is going shopping
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12:17<hEximal>where can I get mythencoder.pl
12:21<choenig>hEximal: look in contrib/
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12:22<hEximal>must have missed it
12:23<hEximal>k
12:23<hEximal>locate contrib |more
12:24<hEximal>oops
12:24<hEximal>on the site?
12:24<choenig>in the base of mythtv dir
12:25<choenig>http://cvs.mythtv.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/mythtv/contrib/
12:25<hEximal>ahh
12:25<hEximal>damn
12:26<hEximal>ty
12:32<kvandivo>awww.. JAC responded.
12:36<hEximal>well at least i didn't ask what cvs was...
12:37<kvandivo>that's the pharmacy, right?
12:37<hEximal>i believe it is, yes.
12:37<hEximal>woop, mythencode.pl makes life easy
12:39<hEximal>it's crazy that a drug store holds the source for all these projects.
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13:41<mchou>hey choenig, do you think sdwu patch can make it in time for myth 0.13? :)
13:42<Chutt>err, it went in yesterday.
13:42<mchou>oh, ok, good to know. thx....
13:44<choenig>:)
13:44<mchou>thx choenig :)
13:45<choenig>mchou: you have to thank Chutt for tha last hint :)
13:45<choenig>the
13:45<mchou>thx all around then :)
13:46<choenig>Chutt: 0.13 is still planned sometime next week?
13:47<Chutt>sure
13:47<choenig>any idea when?
13:47<choenig>I'll try to get the docs done before the release
13:49<mchou>choenig, so as far as operation/setup for sdwu, no major changes from your prior README, correct?
13:49<choenig>mchou: right
13:49<Chutt>not really
13:50<choenig>the WOLsqlserver is missing due to an error by me, but thats not yet documented IIRC
13:50<mchou>yeah, I don't think you mentioned that earlier.....
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13:57<Zeran>is there a specific version of myth I should be using to get maximum chances of success?
14:00<Chutt>the very first one.
14:00<mchou>hehe
14:01<Zeran>maybe I should append ".. and still have a reasonable set of features?" :)
14:01<Chutt>take a wild guess
14:02<Zeran>that bad huh
14:02<Chutt>erm
14:02<Chutt>why would the answer to your question be anything but 'the latest'?
14:03<Zeran>I assumed that too, but I've spent the last few days fighting unsuccessfully to get the latest working, so I thought I'd better check to make sure
14:03<Zeran>I suspect its ivtv's fault though, rather than myth itself
14:04<Chutt>that'd probably be a good assumption
14:05<Zeran>oh well
14:08<Zeran>do any of you guys use ivtv, or are you using other drivers?
14:09<Chutt>everyone with a pvr-x50 card uses the ivtv drivers, which is a good chunk of people
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14:09<Zeran>what is the success rate like?
14:10<paje>hi I was thinking of trying out mythtv how does it compare to freevo ?
14:10<Chutt>paje, ask elsewhere.
14:10<Chutt>zeran, depends on what you're doing with it
14:11<Chutt>decoding is still a little iffy, since that's so new in the driver
14:11<paje>fair enough does it play nicely with apt on debian ?
14:11<Chutt>capturing is pretty near 100%, unless you're using a via-based motherboard.
14:11<Chutt>paje, err, there's debian packages.
14:12<paje>great I'll give it a try
14:14<Zeran>as in, 250 vs. 350?
14:15<Zeran>hmmmmm thats interesting
14:15<Zeran>decoding is working perfectly, but capturing wont work
14:15<Zeran>could be the via based board though
14:16<Zeran>don't have much of a choice with that unfortuantely
14:16<Zeran>is there any info on the problems with via boards around?
14:16<Chutt>on the mailing lists
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14:17<Zeran>ahh
14:17<Zeran>oh well, I guess I'll resume the battle tomorrow
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15:00<o_cee>Captain_Murdoch! there you are! where've you been?
15:03<o_cee>Chutt: i think i made up my mind on the font.. take a look at https://dragon.dyndns.tv/mythtv/gantnewfont3.png
15:03-!-Drikus [~Drikus@cc45940-a.deven1.ov.home.nl] has quit ["toedeledoki"]
15:07<Chutt>i dunno
15:07<Chutt>i like the old one better :p
15:08<Chutt>the original font, with the 'mythtv' down the side
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15:08<o_cee>stupid translations is all i have to say
15:08<Chutt>sfr, hey, thor was asking about your audio streaming stuff
15:09<o_cee>makes it very hard to do this stuff :/
15:09<Chutt>heh
15:09<Captain_Murdoch>o_cee: yeah, was out of town for a while and couldn't get online much. if set, the per-recording preroll is always in effect, it doesnt' get ignored if there's a conflict.
15:10<o_cee>okay
15:10<o_cee>but the global one does
15:10<o_cee>next question is if the real time it says the recording should start should include the recording preroll (as it is now) or not
15:11<o_cee>another thing about the recording preroll. wouldn't it be better if it worked like this: if unset, the global preroll is used. if set to 0, there won't be any preroll. as it is now, i have to set -6 on the shows i don't want any preroll on (to ignore the global preroll).. or am i totally wrong there?
15:12<Captain_Murdoch>yeah, I think start time on that screen should include the actual starttime including per-recording pre-roll.
15:13<o_cee>but not including the global pre-roll..? (as it is now)
15:13<o_cee>(the countdown includes the global pre-roll)
15:14<Captain_Murdoch>global is only if there's no conflict so I'm not sure about that. if you include it in the countdown then maybe should show the time with global preroll taken into account.
15:15<o_cee>i'll try it and see what it looks like
15:15<o_cee>with the latest changes to other stuff, inside myth, all times include the prerolls as well
15:15<sfr>Chutt: hi, haven't had much time to work on it. last thing i started was trying to add http_proxy / redirect support.
15:15<Captain_Murdoch>maybe could be an option whether to use/not-use global preroll if per-recording preroll is set to non-zero. most people use global just to get an extra minute or two to make sure they get the start of a program. per-recording is when you know recordings start/end early/late.
15:16<Captain_Murdoch>recstarts/recendts include the per-recording pre/postroll times. recstartts is used for the filename. what other times are you referring to in myth that take preroll into effect?
15:17<sfr>Chutt: i'll probably have more time during the holidays
15:17<Chutt>cool
15:17<o_cee>Captain_Murdoch: i mean in the watch recording screen and so on
15:19<Captain_Murdoch>those are the exact times stored in the database in the recorded table. they are the actual start/stop times of a show with all pre/postroll (global and per-recording) taken into account.
15:19<o_cee>yeah, that's what i mean. since they're showed there, they might as well be showed on the statuspage as well
15:20<o_cee>the "real" starttime that is, with all prerolls
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15:20<Captain_Murdoch>yeah, would make sense to include actual start time there
15:20<o_cee>Chutt: when do you plan to put out .13?
15:22<o_cee>might as well get these changes in
15:23<Chutt>next week sometime
15:23<o_cee>okay, no problem then.
15:25<o_cee>who added the status page to mythfrontend?
15:26<o_cee>rkulagow... around? doesn't seem so
15:28<o_cee>it will probably break when there's no guide data, just like 6544 did before
15:30* o_cee is away: life
15:37<mecraw__>Any plans to popup a dialog showing what key presses are available in the current context?
15:38<Chutt>i don't have such plans
15:39<kvandivo>are you feeling an itch, mecraw__?
15:39-!-mecraw__ is now known as mecraw
15:40<mecraw>i am, unfortunately i'm not running on cvs at the moment
15:41<mecraw>it would be cool for people who don't have all the keys mapped on their remotes
15:42<mecraw>Each plugin handles which context it's in in its own way, right?
15:43<Chutt>nope, but each screen doesn't use the all the same keys in a context
15:43<mecraw>i don't follow?
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15:47<mecraw>anyway... i'll have to look at the code more closely... and i wanted to see if someone would scratch my itch before i get around to it
15:48<kvandivo>when put like that, it is even more obvious why you shouldn't expect anyone to add it soon just because you want it. :-)
15:49<kvandivo>unless, of course, you happen to be a 20 year old voluptuous coed, and then you can probably find people around here to help you out
16:09<mecraw>should i post my measurement then?
16:10<mecraw>measurements even
16:10<dja>(darn...you were to fast...I was just going to comment that if you only have one measurement, I best most people in here wouldn't be interested :-)
16:38* kvandivo looks around.
16:40* mecraw gets out a measuring tape
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16:45* o_cee is back (gone 01:15:35)
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16:58<dja>hey o_cee, you around?
16:59<o_cee>yeh
16:59<dja>have you looked at the status page with "links"?
16:59<o_cee>with links?
16:59<kvandivo>not real clean, huh?
16:59<dja>"links" is a text web browser -- for us old foggies(sp??? :-)
17:00<o_cee>oh
17:00<kvandivo>i looked at it earlier today in lynx and i suspect it looks about the same
17:00<o_cee>well
17:00<o_cee>i looked at it without css
17:00<o_cee>you mean the descriptions and stuff?
17:00<o_cee>would probably be cured with a couple of <br />'s
17:00<dja>yeah, it just doesn't come out real clean :-(
17:01<o_cee>you mean the descriptions, right?
17:01<dja>yup
17:01<dja>everything else looks pretty good...
17:01<o_cee>that's what i thought as well
17:01<o_cee>i'll fix it, it's easy i think
17:01<o_cee>just need some breaks
17:01-!-hculver [~henry@dnvrapanas16poola70.dnvr.uswest.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:01<dja>thnx :-)
17:01<o_cee>you able to test it in 5 mins? i'm recording..
17:02<kvandivo>i can
17:02<dja>I can too :-)
17:02<o_cee>great
17:02<o_cee>hold on
17:02<kvandivo>Skr\xE4ckens hus
17:02<o_cee>house of horror :)
17:03<o_cee>steven king
17:03<o_cee>stop lookin at my backend dammit :D
17:07<o_cee>you can change this yourselves without a patch.. not sure what it will look like at all :)
17:07<o_cee>line 2566/2680: << "<br /><br />" << qstrDescription << "<br /><br />"
17:08<o_cee>noo.
17:08<dja>does "noo." mean don't do it? :-)
17:08<o_cee> line 2563/2680: << qstrTitle << "<br /><span><strong>" << qstrTitle << "</strong>"
17:08<o_cee>that's thte first one
17:08<o_cee>line 2572/2680: os << "' profile.</span></a><br /><br />\r\n";
17:08<o_cee>try that
17:08<o_cee>not sure what it'll look like with css enabled..
17:11<dja>hmm...sorry, I can't figure out how that applies to mainserver.cpp...
17:13<o_cee>heh, hold on i'll maek a diff
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17:20<o_cee>kvandivo: finding it? seems my lines are off a bit, i'm not entirely updated
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17:38<o_cee>seems like that solved it (added one more br at the end)..
17:38<o_cee>will try it myself later and submit a patch
17:45<kvandivo>back now.. reading, oc..
17:56-!-rcam [~rcam@73.155.33.65.cfl.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:59<kvandivo>http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~kvandivo/blah
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18:14<o_cee>kvandivo: great
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18:19<Netslayer>hey i like that, that's kinda what a mythweb status page should look like
18:20<Netslayer>actually that's exactly what i want, are u submitting that as a patch?
18:21<Chutt>err, it's in cvs.
18:21<Chutt>they're just fixing some issues with it.
18:21<kvandivo>he added a few <BR>'s, chutt
18:21<kvandivo>ahh.. :)
18:23<Netslayer>so will it be added soon?
18:23<Netslayer>and where is planning on showing up, part of mythweb?
18:23<Chutt>what part of 'it's in cvs' was difficult to understand?
18:23<Netslayer>oh
18:23<Netslayer>heh
18:23<Netslayer>too many windows open here
18:24<Netslayer>so mythweb i'm assuming
18:24<kvandivo>and we know what assuming does
18:24<Netslayer>makes an ass out of u and me ya we all know that one
18:24<kvandivo>no, not mythweb, net.. you running mythbackend? if so, go to http://backendmachine:6544
18:25<kvandivo>there, I've done my good deed for the day
18:25<Netslayer>heh, guess i need latest cvs for that to work
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18:25<kvandivo>actually, i think the initial version of 6544 was probably in 0.11.. chutt can correct me if i'm wrong
18:25<kvandivo>it's look has just improved, that's all
18:26<Chutt>0.8
18:26<kvandivo>oh wow.. that long..
18:26<Netslayer>hmm
18:26* kvandivo blushes.
18:26<Chutt>yeah
18:26<Netslayer>oh sweet
18:26<Netslayer>got any surprises i probably should know?
18:27<kvandivo>never click on the title bar on that page. if you do, your machine will explode.
18:27<Netslayer>that's actually all i use mythweb for most of the time
18:27<Netslayer>heh
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18:28<o_cee>dammit, those changes fucked up the normal viewing..
18:29<o_cee>got back my backend now so i can try myself
18:29* kvandivo pats o_cee on the head.
18:30<o_cee>what if i put a <hl> in there and hide it with CSS?
18:33<o_cee>have to do some reading to solve this
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18:53<Chutt>suppose i should compile before committing
18:53<Chutt>takes all the fun outta things, though
18:55<warlord>It's kinder to your supplicants..
18:56<Chutt>bah
18:58<warlord>Heh
19:03-!-rcam [~rcam@73.155.33.65.cfl.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
19:03<rcam>Hello
19:07<o_cee>kvandivo: i htink i've got a good solution coming
19:12<o_cee>kvandivo: check my page now.. is that allright?
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19:39<o_cee>wake up kvandivo
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19:57<o_cee>i'm very close to unsubscibing -users
19:58<o_cee>Captain_Murdoch: you around?
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20:00<o_cee>6544 looks beautiful in lynx now
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20:21<o_cee>Chutt: is it possible to see if the backend is plying back an already recorded show?
20:23<o_cee>seems to be some intresting stuff in tv_play..
20:24<o_cee>ah well, not now :)
20:29-!-robbie_ [~rob@ESS-p-144-138-96-59.mega.tmns.net.au] has joined #mythtv
20:44<o_cee>there
20:44<o_cee>diff sent
20:48* o_cee is away: sleepie
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21:05<Crib>whatddup all
21:05<Crib>my card came in today
21:05<Crib>I'm building tommorow
21:05<Crib>What distro are all you guys using?
21:05<Crib>I'm experienced with gentoo, but i'm thinking about knoppix because of ease of install.
21:08<cesman>using knoppmyth
21:11<Crib>havent heard of that whatis it?
21:13<Crib>i c
21:13<Crib>does it work out of the box with the hauppage wintv 768 cards?
21:16<cesman>is that card supported by bttv?
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21:20<Crib>yep
21:20<cesman>then you should have no problem
21:21<Crib>how long did the install take
21:23<cesman>depends on your hardware...
21:23<Crib>i guess my question is, does it "install" or does it just run off the livecd
21:23-!-paulc [~paul@250-207.customer.cloud9.net] has joined #mythtv
21:24<paulc>hey all: anyone have any pointers to creating DVDs from MythTV recorded mpeg2's? I've gone over transcode manpage 100 times and finally getting somewhere, but maybe there is a web page I could look at?
21:28<paulc>..or maybe someone has direct experience doing this? I'm not sure I"m doing the right things to transcode and re/mplex back to a DVD-compliant stream with correct timeline, etc
21:35<Octane>Crib if you do autoinstall it "installs"
21:36<Octane>the whole process, minus the downloading of channel information will take you no more than 20 minutes
21:44<Octane>anyone here use suse?
21:53-!-shamoun [~shamoun@c-24-10-37-99.client.comcast.net] has joined #mythtv
21:53<shamoun>hey all
21:53<shamoun>anyone here?
21:56<cesman>hello
22:07<jeffpc>how exactly does mythtv deal with this situation:
22:07<jeffpc>you want to record 2 programs, one on channel 2 and another on channel 4
22:08<jeffpc>they are consecutive so, one tuner is sufficient
22:08<jeffpc>now...wouldn't it want to record the two programs at the same time for a very short period of time (latency is NOT 0)
22:09<cesman>no
22:09<jeffpc>hmm...
22:09<jeffpc>grrr...this is starting to agrivate me...why doesn't it want to work!
22:12-!-topgun98 [~topgun98@adslct35.cofs.net] has joined #mythtv
22:12<topgun98>anyone using the Via EPIA boards? I just installed Debian on a drive and I'm having a strange problem.
22:14<topgun98>grah, fuck it... gotta go drinking.... I"ll worry about it tomorrow.
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22:17<Chutt>and kenneth wonders why i've not given him cvs write access.
22:17<Chutt>heh
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22:31<brunes>hey all... did zap2it change *again* ?
22:34<shamoun>zap2it?
22:35<brunes>xmltv
22:35<brunes>yes, they have
22:35<brunes>man they change that site too often :P
22:36<Octane>theyre on to us
22:36<brunes>likely
22:37<brunes>however, there's lotd of listngs providers :P
22:37<brunes>lots
22:41<DogBoy>wow again
22:41<DogBoy>just install 0.5.23
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22:46<shamoun>DogBoy, why, what is in .5.23?
22:53-!-cmorgan [~cmorgan@cpe-68-118-244-105.ma.charter.com] has joined #mythtv
22:59<DogBoy>nothing of value apparently
22:59<DogBoy>hehe
22:59<DogBoy>time to upgrade to 0.5.24
23:05<shamoun>DogBoy, why, does the newer version get the tv listings from a different site
23:06<DogBoy>oh, does it?
23:06<DogBoy>it's got all these modules I need to install too
23:06<DogBoy>jeepers
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23:11<shamoun>DogBoy, i was asking you if it does
23:12* shamoun has some problems
23:12<DogBoy>no idea
23:12<DogBoy>what's the problem?
23:12<shamoun>my linux box is working beutifully
23:12<shamoun>but my windows box won't let me replace windows with linux
23:13<DogBoy>what does that have to do with mythtv eh
23:13<DogBoy>:-)
23:13<shamoun>DogBoy, i have some questions about video in linux, i was hoping you could fill me in
23:13<DogBoy>shoot
23:14<shamoun>DogBoy, i want to install debian on my multimedia box and use mythtv for capturing video
23:14<DogBoy>if I don't know (chances are high) maybe someone can rescue me
23:14<shamoun>i also want to be able to use my dvd burner to burn the video i capture
23:15<shamoun>will i be able to record the video captured by mythtv to dvd?
23:15<DogBoy>pretty sure
23:15<DogBoy>already made some vcds
23:16<DogBoy>I don't have a dvd burner
23:16<shamoun>k00l
23:17<DogBoy>are you using debs or knoppmyth?
23:19<jeffpc>where is the code that checks the DB and decides when to start recording?
23:21<jeffpc>let me guess:
23:21<jeffpc>void Scheduler::RunScheduler(void)
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23:28<jeffpc>what is this saying:
23:28<jeffpc> QDateTime lastupdate = QDateTime::currentDateTime().addDays(-1);
23:29<jeffpc>subtract one day from today's date?
23:29<cmorgan>yep
23:29<jeffpc>hmmm...
23:30<jeffpc>but then, this will fail all the time:
23:30<jeffpc> if (CheckForChanges() ||
23:30<jeffpc> (lastupdate.date().day() != curtime.date().day()))
23:30<jeffpc>curtime is just currentDateTime()
23:31<jeffpc>not fail...
23:31<jeffpc>it will be true, and that's bad in a way...
23:34<jeffpc>btw, I'm looking at Scheduler:RunScheduler()
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23:45<RAruler>irrecord seems to be giving me really odd values, I have a Leadtek RM-0010 that came with my Leadtek Winfast TV2000 XP, but irw gives me nothing with the included lircd.conf, and irrecord is giving me some pretty whacked out values
23:46<RAruler>ie: they don't match the stuff on lirc.org, but I did manage to make it work at one point, but I can't remember how :(
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23:57-!-CyberKne2 is now known as CyberKnet
23:57<CyberKnet>I'm getting rather muffled sound from my M179 (no transcode, bitrate @ 384, 480x480 - 10,000/12,000) . Should I bring this up in here or in ivtv-dev?
23:58<cmorgan>like you are under water? ;-)
---Logclosed Sat Dec 06 00:00:22 2003