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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2003-12-06

---Logopened Sat Dec 06 00:00:22 2003
---Daychanged Sat Dec 06 2003
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00:46* Ripp is away: ZZZ
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02:22<Netslayer>toobad nobody is updating the purple galaxy theme
02:28<Netslayer>time to update to cvs :-), it's been a while
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02:42<janek>hi, is anybody else using xvmc with dvb?
02:42<janek>I seem to have problems when there are errors in the stream, the frontend just crashes out
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02:55<janek>hmm I seem to have fixed that, but it still crashes when the aspect ratio of a channel changes
02:55<janek>that one might be tricky to fix...
03:45<Netslayer>i'm getting very weird compile errors on latest CVS, (mythMusic, mythGallery, not mythtv), has something changed in the last month? I posted to the maililng list, but it's reporting mainly things like this "MythMainWindow::TranslateKeyPress(const char[8], QKeyEvent*&, QStringList&)"
03:46<Netslayer>http://www.gossamer-threads.com/archive/MythTV_C2/Users_F11/mythmusic_CVS_compile_error_P93855/
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03:53<Netslayer>u can't compile in parallel? like mythtv, then other plugins without installing mythtv first?
03:55<Netslayer>guess not works now nm
03:56<janek>Yes i think the plugins need to have mythtv installed first
03:56<janek>but I'm still struggling to get normal TV watching working ok ;)
03:57<janek>(but then I've got some difficult problems it seems)
03:59<Netslayer>so all db updates are now automatic, we don't have to do anything :-)
04:02<janek>indeed
04:27<Netslayer>kudos on the new status pages, i love em
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04:35<janek>sorry, had to reboot
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05:14<Octane>janek unacceptable.
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10:01<Zeran>hey
10:01<Zeran>anyone around?
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10:01<janek>sort of
10:02<janek>but I don't know much about mythtv ;)
10:02<Zeran>heheh fair enough
10:02<Zeran>I just got it to partially work
10:02<Zeran>am playing around with it now.. very cool
10:02<janek>I'm only trying to get dvb with XvMC to work ok
10:02<janek>it is definitely cool, yes :)
10:02<Zeran>ahh dvb.. that is satellite related?
10:02<janek>well, in my case it's dvb-t which is terrestrial digital television
10:03<Zeran>ohh right
10:03<Zeran>nice
10:03<janek>but dvb-s is satellite, yes ;)
10:03<Zeran>ahh :)
10:03<Zeran>I think we are in the process of getting terrestrial digital here in aus
10:03<Zeran>where abouts are you?
10:03<janek>UK
10:03<Zeran>a fellow PAL person :)
10:03<janek>indeed
10:04<Zeran>I should have a look at the dvb-t stuff here.. it sounds interesting, but very expensive
10:04<Zeran>do they transmit a standard definition picture or some kind of high definition?
10:04<janek>it's not too expensive here any longer, UKP 75 roughly for a cheapo card
10:04<janek>it's actually pretty close to DVD standard
10:05<janek>720x572 or 704x572 at 8mbps
10:05<janek>I don't understand why the two different resolutions though
10:05<janek>and it's giving mythtv lots of trouble it seems ;)
10:05<Zeran>interesting
10:05<Zeran>heheh yes
10:06<janek>the quality isn't always as good as DVD though since they seem to use realtime encoders most of the time/always
10:06<Zeran>in my very limited experience I havent seen myth to be buggy, just cryptic
10:06<janek>so you do see artifacts sometimes
10:06<Zeran>ahh I see
10:06<janek>the dvb support is still very new
10:06<Zeran>I saw that effect a lot when I was in the US.. directv I think
10:06<Zeran>I assume thats dvb-s
10:07<janek>well part of that is they squeeze a huge number of channels on directv
10:07<janek>so they probably use a lot lower bitrate for most of them
10:07<Zeran>good point
10:08<janek>it's so wasteful really, I wish they had waited with implementing the standard until mpeg4 was ready ;)
10:08<janek>they could have easily had twice the number of channels at the same quality
10:08<janek>and we don't get all that many channels on dvb-t here unfortunately
10:08<Zeran>its kind of a shame isnt it
10:08<Zeran>standards get locked down and then they'll be that way forever
10:08<janek>and a third of the channels are home shopping channels ;)
10:09<Zeran>I think we have all of about 3 terrestrial digital channels here :)
10:09<janek>yes, literally forever here
10:09<Zeran>here also I think
10:09<janek>heh
10:09<Zeran>its taken so long to even start implementing digital, they aren't going to change in a hurry
10:09<janek>though they're thinking of turning off analog TV in a decade or so
10:09<janek>in which case they could double the number of channels as each analog channel can support about 4-5 digital ones instead
10:09<Zeran>I've heard talk of that here too.. I'm not sure whether that idea will fly though
10:10<janek>it's kinda funny actually, they were always saying "oh no we can't do any more terrestrial channels we don't have the frequencies for it"
10:10<janek>but they're using the equivalent of 6 analog channels for the new digital channels ;)
10:10<janek>(though I suppose they might be out of the range that a TV can tune into normally)
10:11<Zeran>ouch
10:11<Zeran>so a digital channel takes the bandwidth of 6 analog channels?
10:11<Zeran>thats insane
10:11<janek>eh, no, about the other way round ;)
10:12<janek>we get about 20 digital channels now
10:12<janek>apparently
10:12<janek>though I haven't quite found them all ;)
10:12<Zeran>oh, 1/6th
10:12<Zeran>thats much better
10:12<janek>more like 1/4-1/5th I guess
10:12<Zeran>but mpeg4 would have been more..?
10:12<janek>much more, yes
10:12<janek>it's between 2 and 3 times more efficient
10:13<janek>I've still got to program all the new channels into mythtv actually ;)
10:14<janek>(it's a bit of a hassle as you have to edit 3 database tables at the moment to add a dvb channel ;))
10:15<Zeran>heheh
10:15<Zeran>I had to do some manual work just to get plain old analog channels into it for australia
10:16<Zeran>it seems the tables were not correctly populated by tv_grab_au
10:18<janek>oh, and the other dvb problem I have is that sound is really quiet
10:19<janek>not quite sure why that s
10:19<janek>is
10:19<Zeran>the dvb card captures the sound directly?
10:19<Zeran>or do you direct it to a separate sound in card
10:20<janek>well, the sound comes as part of the mpeg stream from the dvb card
10:21<Zeran>what kind of drivers do you use for dvb stuff?
10:21<janek>the dvb drivers ;)
10:21<Zeran>are there official drivers, or is it an open source type effort?
10:21<janek>open source, but fairly well supported
10:22<janek>it started with nokia sponsoring development of a dvb driver framework for their set top box from what I've read
10:22<Zeran>ahh I see
10:22<Zeran>nokia slacking off again
10:23<janek>not sure I'd call it slacking off ;)
10:23<Zeran>:)
10:23<Zeran>if the audio is part of the mpeg stream and the stream is delivered directly to the host, you wouldn't think there would be any opportunity to scale the volume there
10:23<janek>they had this big plan for an open set top box based on linux a while ago
10:23<janek>indeed, there shouldn't be
10:23<Zeran>does the card itself decode the mpeg stream, or is that left to the CPU / other hardware?
10:23<janek>that's left to the CPU
10:24<janek>so it should just be like playing an mp3 (well it's an mp2 technically ;))
10:24<Zeran>yeah
10:24<Zeran>very strange
10:25<Zeran>have you been able to grab the mp2 data and play it back with some other software like a general purpose mpeg audio player?
10:25<janek>hmm, haven't tried that
10:25<janek>but playing back the same stream with mplayer it's also very quiet
10:25<Zeran>I of course have no idea how to do this :)
10:26<janek>I think they expect you to scale up the volume for some reason
10:26<Zeran>hmmm
10:26<Zeran>sounds odd though
10:26<Zeran>I might ahve to play around with dvb-t here in australia
10:26<Zeran>I have a feeling a card is about $500 though
10:26<Zeran>set top box maybe double that
10:26<janek>phew, the set top boxes here are only UKP 50 now
10:26<janek>don't know what that would be in AUS$ ;)
10:27<Zeran>heheh
10:27<Zeran>I'm actually off by 50%
10:27<Zeran>I see a card for $239 AU
10:28<janek>but like I said it doesn't seem to work perfectly in mythtv yet
10:28<janek>though it's getting close :)
10:28<Zeran>I can say the same about my pvr-350 unfortunately :)
10:29<Zeran>close but not quite there yet
10:29<Zeran>UKP 50 is about $120 AUD I think
10:30<Zeran>so that card I could buy in aus is about UKP 100 or so
10:30<Zeran>double the price
10:30<Zeran>ouch :)
10:30<janek>well it's UKP 50 for a set top box
10:30<janek>the card I got was 85 incl postage
10:30<Zeran>whoa :)
10:31<janek>the set top boxes are getting very cheap now, as they're a mass market item
10:31<janek>though the card is actually much simpler ;)
10:31<Zeran>yes
10:31<Zeran>cards seem cheaper here
10:32<Zeran>cheapest set top box looks like about $299 AU
10:32<janek>well, the card I got anyway, there are full featured cards with mpeg2 decoder and TV-out on them, those are much more expensive though
10:32<Zeran>ideally I'd chuck a PCI card into this mythtv box I have just built
10:32<Zeran>unfortuantely this tiny case only has room for one pci card
10:32<Zeran>which kind of ruins that idea
10:32<janek>which would be cool actually, apparently the pvr-350 you've got makes for a great output device for dvb-t stuff :)
10:32<Zeran>exactly!
10:32<janek>ah
10:32<Zeran>and it could integrate with myth
10:33<Zeran>choose your source, or whatever
10:33<janek>yes, be able to record two things at once
10:33<Zeran>I may have to upgrade to a larger case :)
10:33<janek>heh
10:33<Zeran>its good that there are linux drivers for these dvb cards anyway
10:33<Zeran>is your setup in a usable state now?
10:34<janek>not quite with mythtv
10:34<janek>it messes up when there's a change in resolution/aspect ratio
10:34<janek>and one of the channels changes after an ad break
10:34<janek>so that pretty much ruins it all ;)
10:34<Zeran>damn
10:35<Zeran>are there people working on improving dvb support?
10:35<janek>but it's a known problem and there's a few people working on it
10:35<Zeran>thats good
10:35<Zeran>do you use myth for any analog stuff?
10:37<janek>no
10:37<janek>hmm the dvb stuff seems to have just improved a lot with this patch I found on the mailing list :)
10:37<Zeran>excellent
10:38<janek>in fact if it wasn't for the XvMC problems I've also got it might be good now
10:38<janek>perhaps
10:38<Zeran>what is XvMC?
10:39<janek>still got to see what happens after ad breaks but I think that was the same problem as channel change
10:39<janek>it's hardware support for mpeg2 decoding that some graphics cards have, like me Geforce FX
10:39<Zeran>ahhh, nice
10:40<Zeran>mpeg 2 decode -> tv out ?
10:40<janek>but the OSD is really slow on that
10:40<janek>yeah, but not as good as the pvr-350 ;)
10:40<Zeran>ahhh
10:40<Zeran>I was very impressed with the tv out on the 350.. it was like the only thing that worked out of the box
10:40<Zeran>which was the opposite to what I expected given that it seems to be the newest development in the open source drivers
10:40<janek>it's supposed to be the best solution for playing back mpeg2 to TV
10:41<Zeran>it does seem to give a very nice picture
10:41<Zeran>I guess it gets the fields and everything right, as its designed for decode->tv rather than decode-> standard monitor
10:41<janek>it's the only one that can output the interlaced fields (like you get with dvb) in the proper order/with the right timing
10:41<janek>indeed
10:41<Zeran>we must have read the same thing :)
10:41<janek>probably ;)
10:42<Zeran>you'd think there would be a cheap card around whcih just does that function.. decode mpeg2 -> tv signal encoder
10:43<janek>yes, that would be neat
10:43<janek>well there's some of those old-style mpeg2 decoder cards that are cheap on ebay now
10:43<janek>but I don't think they do quite as well...
10:45<Zeran>they decode back to memory buffers dont they?
10:45<Zeran>or do they couple directly to a tv encoder?
10:47<janek>I thought there was some that have tv outs, but I'm not sure...
10:48<brunes>could someone tell me what exactly is a DVB card?
10:48<Zeran>janek can field that one :)
10:48<janek>it's a card that allows you to receive digital television on your pc
10:48<janek>it gives you an mpeg2 stream directly...
10:48<brunes>you mean like DirecTV ?
10:48<janek>yeah, kinda
10:49<brunes>weird, i thought anything which could intercept those streams was illegal
10:49<Zeran>I think you still have to pay
10:49<janek>brunes: directv has encrypted channels, there are some channels that aren't encrypted, at least in this country...
10:50<Zeran>the kind of dvb we were talking about (terrestrial) is usually free
10:50<janek>it actually used to be for pay (for some channels) in this country
10:50<janek>but they gave up on that
10:50<brunes>I dont know of any staelitte that's not encrypted.. DirecTV is, EchoStar is..
10:50<brunes>what country is that?
10:50<janek>brunes: usually it's individual channels that are encrypted, at least around here
10:50<Zeran>how do you normally pay for directv?
10:50<janek>UK
10:50<brunes>oh
10:50<Zeran>do they give you a smart card or something?
10:51<brunes>Zeran: yeah there sa card i think
10:51<brunes>I dont have it
10:51<brunes>actually, yes there is a card
10:51<janek>I think directv may actually predate dvb...
10:51<brunes>there is also starchoice, which doesnt have a card
10:52<Zeran>here we have sat and cable.. both use a smart card I think
10:52<Zeran>but cable isnt digital
10:52<Zeran>so I'm not sure how they decrypt that
10:52<Zeran>I think they rearrange the pixels on each row of the image according to an algorithm
10:52<Zeran>but its still a decodable signal (just looks scrambled)
10:52<brunes>ourdigital cable doesnt need cards
10:53<brunes>im pretty sure it talks to the CO to determine what channels you get
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10:54<Zeran>I think ours does also
10:55<Zeran>even though it appears to be analog
10:56<brunes>well with "digital cable" only some channels are digital
10:56<brunes>all the channels you could get with analog cable, are also analog with digital cable
10:56<janek>heh, here cable is all digital now ;)
10:56<brunes>only the ones that are only on digital are digital
10:56<brunes>I am glad its not all digital ere
10:57<brunes>I lik ebeing able ot have 6 tvs without payning for 6 boxes
10:57<Zeran>oh, we cant do that sadly
10:57<Zeran>normal RF tuners cant tune the channels on cable
10:57<Zeran>have to pay for multiple boxes
10:59<janek>brunes: you could just use mythtv with one recording box and lots of display boxes ;)
10:59<brunes>but then you cant record > 1 at once
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10:59<janek>you can with several cards...
10:59<brunes>or watch 2 shows at once
10:59<brunes>only if you have several cable boxes
10:59<janek>(and in theory the dvb cards can record several channels at once, if they are on the same "mux", but mythtv doesn't support that yet)
11:00<Zeran>sweet
11:00<brunes>well from what i am reading on the wbe just now no north american satelite providers use VB, so :P
11:00<brunes>DBV
11:00<brunes>DVB
11:00<brunes>jesus
11:01<Zeran>satellites tend to be pretty global though
11:01<Zeran>or at least, hemispherical, dont they?
11:01<janek>but that doesn't really help too much as at least in my case programs I would like to watch/record at the same time don't tend to be on the same mux anyway ;)
11:01<Zeran>aww
11:04* Ripp is away: AFK
11:04* Ripp is back (gone 00:00:01)
11:05<jeffpc>this is really screwy...
11:05<jeffpc>grrr...
11:06<jeffpc>is there something more verbose than -v on the backend?
11:06<Zeran>I think you specify logging classes after -v
11:06<Zeran>-v all
11:06<Zeran>?
11:07<jeffpc>hmmm...
11:07<janek>yes
11:07<jeffpc>ok, let's see
11:07<janek>and then you go into the source code and add more logging if that's still not enough ;)
11:07<Zeran>although from memory its not much more verbose
11:07<Zeran>:)
11:08<Zeran>does anyone know if mythtv can record ad-hoc?
11:08<Zeran>like, if you are watching live tv, can you hit a button to start saving it?
11:08<janek>argh, my mythbackend keep getting segmentation faults now :(
11:08<Zeran>that isnt a good sign
11:08<Zeran>what does the sys/kernel log say?
11:08<janek>not at all
11:09<janek>nothing that's related to video stuff
11:09<Zeran>I found that myth front/back seem to get crashhappy if they have incomplete data or incomplete functionality (eg empty database, cant open the devices it wants, etc)
11:09<janek>it's probably something along those lines
11:10<janek>actually never mind, it's probably just whenever I install a new compile of myth ;)
11:11<janek>i've been trying to stop the OSD from fading out
11:12<janek>good, it's working much better now without OSD fade-out :)
11:13* Zeran mentions that OSD fade out works beautifully with his 350... ;)
11:13<Zeran>if only the OSD had anything useful to say. mine consists of a bunch of empty boxes
11:14<jeffpc>Zeran: I'd like that too - ad-hoc recording...I don't think it would be too difficult to implement
11:14<janek>you'd have to turn the ringbuffer into a normal recording I guess
11:14<janek>should be possible I suppose...
11:15<janek>though a lot of little issues
11:15<janek>like, what do you make the recording title? The beginning of the current program?
11:15<janek>how do you cut it down to the beginning of the program you were currently watching while still keeping it recording?
11:16<jeffpc>whoa! where did this come from:
11:16<jeffpc>Dec 6 11:12:31 jeff kernel: bttv0: skipped frame. no signal? high irq latency?
11:17<Zeran>I think it would be cool
11:17<Zeran>I dont mind what the recording is named, or if it doesnt get clipped to the current show
11:17<Zeran>its more for "whoa, I should record this" type moments
11:18<Zeran>I guess you'd move the contents of the ring buffer from the current play position to "live time" to a new recording, and then keep writing to that recording instead of teh ring buffer (and start playing the recording)
11:18<jeffpc>also, there should be some interface to make it possible to rename recordings...
11:18<Zeran>yes
11:18<Zeran>definitely
11:18<Zeran>hey.. with the OSD
11:18<Zeran>I see a large box at the bottom of the display
11:18<Zeran>but its empty.. whats meant to be in there?
11:18<jeffpc>the name of the show...
11:18<janek>description of the program you're currently watching
11:19<Zeran>even if its live tv?
11:19<jeffpc>the description
11:19<jeffpc>yes
11:19<Zeran>hmmmm
11:19<jeffpc>at even the channel logo, if it has it
11:19<Zeran>something must be wrong
11:20<jeffpc>let's see...IO-APIC got dissabled in my kernel...oh..those SMP tests... grr
11:20* Ripp is away: *kids!*
11:21<Zeran>oh wow
11:21<Zeran>osd works now
11:21<Zeran>I had to change channel at least once
11:21<jeffpc>strange
11:21<Zeran>I'd never changed channel yet
11:21<Zeran>could be that :)
11:22<Zeran>does this ring buffer thing cause severe hard disk life-shortening?
11:22<jeffpc>well, it saves a lot of data...
11:22<Zeran>constant read/write..
11:22<jeffpc>so, in a way yes
11:23<jeffpc>but, most filesystems compensate for it
11:23<Zeran>I see about one access per second
11:23<Zeran>not too severe
11:23<Zeran>I'm wondering if I should create a large ramdisk
11:23<jeffpc>if you have a lot of RAM, make a ramdisk and use that
11:23<Zeran>yeah
11:23<jeffpc>heh
11:23<Zeran>that might be a good idea
11:23<jeffpc>it would be a lot quicker
11:23<Zeran>I was also thinking (yet another feature idea) might be to have a mode where it does not use the buffer
11:24<jeffpc>it has to...
11:24<Zeran>direct input -> output without using the buffer.. you could not rewind of course, but still
11:24<jeffpc>there is a delay between the write and read...
11:24<Zeran>it could buffer 10 seconds or something in RAM
11:24<jeffpc>ok...
11:24<jeffpc>but you wouldn't be able to pause
11:25<jeffpc>unless you'd want to start the ring-buffer
11:25<Zeran>well, if you paused it would have to dump the 10s ram buffer to the ringbuffer
11:25<Zeran>yeah
11:25<janek>and you could even have it start a recording to the ring buffer if you wanted to pause, yes, but what would be the advantage?
11:25<Zeran>so, no HD access unless you pause
11:25<janek>your HD will be fine ;)
11:25<Zeran>lol
11:25<janek>there's a HD in a Tivo too
11:26<Zeran>does it use it when you're not pausing?
11:26<jeffpc>your first problem with the HD will be it's capacity, not corruption of data
11:26<jeffpc>:-)
11:26<Zeran>true :)
11:26<janek>yes Tivo works pretty similar to mythtv if I'm not mistaken...
11:26<Zeran>I'm imagining the use case where the thing sits there 24/7 reading/writing, even when noone is watching it
11:26<Zeran>(forgetting to exit "watch tv" mode, etc)
11:28<janek>that would be kind of like a busy server, then ;)
11:28<Zeran>true
11:28<Zeran>I'm just complaining for no reason, dont mind me :)
11:29<janek>you should also be able to change the parameters for when data is written from the write-back cache to disk to make it save less frequently
11:30<Zeran>good idea
11:30<Zeran>is that that hdparm thing?
11:30<janek>not sure
11:30<janek>I used to use a special laptop utility for that kind of thing but I can't quite remember what it was called ;)
11:30-!-D-side [~brian@bgp526783bgs.ebrnsw01.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["Gone."]
11:31<jeffpc>I'd say that using a RAM disk for the ringbuffer makes the most sense...
11:31<jeffpc>1) you don't "damage" the HDD
11:31<jeffpc>2) the CPU doesn't have to wait for costly IO
11:32<Zeran>true
11:32<Zeran>but that thing I was suggesting (direct in -> out) is basically the same thing
11:32<Zeran>without the ramdisk layer
11:32<Zeran>manage a small ringbuffer in memory
11:32<Zeran>if the user takes some action that demands a larger buffer, dump it to disk and use a disk buffer until it shrinks again
11:33<jeffpc>well, start coding ;-)
11:33<Zeran>hehe
11:33<Zeran>do any of you guys know about hdparam?
11:33<jeffpc>I played with it a while ago
11:35<Zeran>does it control write caching?
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11:37<jeffpc>I just skimed through 'man hdparm' and I didn't see anything
11:37-!-brunes [~jason@CPE0004e23b2195-CM00e06f152a84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Client Exiting"]
11:38<Zeran>me either
11:38<Zeran>anyways, I'm sure the drive will live for now ;)
11:38<jeffpc>that should be controled by the kernel...if I'm not thinking about something else
11:38<jeffpc>heh
11:42* Ripp is away: back briefly
11:42* Ripp is away: back briefly
11:42* Ripp is back (gone 00:00:03)
11:44<janek>have a read through some guides on extending notebook battery life perhaps, they tend to cover that subject ;)
11:44<janek>it's risky if you have a power cut though
11:45<Zeran>true'
11:45<jeffpc>ok, let's see if the new kernel will get rid of those messages...
11:45<jeffpc>brb
11:45* Ripp is away: *kids kids kids*
11:45-!-jeffpc [~jeffpc@ool-44c218a8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
11:48* Ripp is away: AFK
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12:00<janek>hmm, a music channel really shouldn't skimp on audio bitrate in my opinion ;)
12:04<Zeran>heheh
12:04<Zeran>no
12:04<Zeran>you'd think not
12:04<Zeran>what bitrate is it?
12:04<janek>192kbps
12:04<janek>most channels are 256, since it's mp2 which isn't as good as mp3
12:09<Zeran>ahhh
12:09<Zeran>does anyone here know perl?
12:09-!-cmorgan [~cmorgan@cpe-68-118-244-105.ma.charter.com] has joined #mythtv
12:09<sfr>_rene_: noch da? Das Problem ist, dass der symlink auf ein Verzeichnis eines anderen Pakets B zeigt. dpkg versucht dann Dateien des alten Pakets A zu loeschen die im neuen Paket A nicht mehr enthalten sind, und zerstoert dabei Paket B. Ideen? Kann ich dafuer postinst verwenden?
12:10<sfr>wrong channel, sorry!
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12:32<janek>3 news channels, such a waste
12:32<janek>and none of them is even CNN ;)
12:32<janek>oh, plus a sports news channel
12:33-!-jeffpc [~jeffpc@ool-44c218a8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #mythtv
12:33<jeffpc>hmm...
12:33<jeffpc>mysql didn't want to load with the new kernel...
12:33<warlord>Huh?
12:33<warlord>mysql shouldn't care diddly about what kernel you're running..
12:33<jeffpc>I know
12:33<jeffpc>it just sat there...
12:34<jeffpc>during the boot sequence...
12:34<jeffpc>doesn't matter, I'll look at it later
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12:50<Rule>hello all. I am having problems importing an xml file using mythfilldatabase --file 1 -1 <filename> : "error occurred while parsing reference"
12:50<Rule>any hints ?
12:54<jeffpc>what is this exactly about: 2003-12-06 12:49:02 backend still changing state, waiting..
13:03-!-feb [~feb@217-117-48-167.teledisnet.be] has joined #mythtv
13:12<Rule>hmm it seems that mythfilldatabase can't import non-latin1 chars...
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13:13<feb>hi.
13:14<feb>I need some help. Mythtv runs, but i cant configure the channels
13:14<D-side>configure how?
13:15<feb>configure the channels table
13:15<D-side>you mean beyond populating it?
13:15<D-side>what is it you're actually trying to do
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13:16<feb>at this time the database isnt populated
13:16<feb>no channels
13:16<feb>only basic tables are present
13:16<D-side>when was the last time you ran mythfilldatabase
13:17<feb>some weeks ago
13:17-!-hfb [~hfb@adsl-63-201-96-195.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] has joined #mythtv
13:17<feb>but it didnt add tv channels with correct frequency
13:17<D-side>so somehow the entire channel listing (as opposed to program listings) has been wiped out ?
13:18<feb>never got it. hasnt been wiped out
13:18<feb>added manually 3 channels, but it doesnt seem to work
13:19<feb>not sure about the meaning of the different fields
13:19<D-side>double check what you've got in mythsetup for the correct grabber?
13:19-!-_Nero_ [~Nero__@mdobossy.student.Princeton.EDU] has joined #mythtv
13:19<_Nero_>have manually scheduled recordings been disabled in 0.12?
13:20<D-side>yes.
13:20<jeffpc>_Nero_: not in CVS..
13:20<_Nero_>damn..
13:20<D-side>that was just discussed in the list.
13:21<_Nero_>D-Side- I read that, but wasnt sure if they meant the "instant record" feature, or the "manually scheduled record" in the schedule recordings menu
13:21<D-side>i know this has been discussed to death on the users list, but i need to make global (as per channel) changes to contrast/brightness settings on my bttv card.
13:21<D-side>_Nero_: thats a good point.
13:21<D-side>_Nero_: its a shame instant record isnt present. i liked that. :)
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13:21<_Nero_>Yeah.. that would be nice.. but I dont see how manually scheduled recordings are any different than recordings from the program guide..
13:22<_Nero_>(isnt it just an entry in the database of start time to end time, title, desc, etc either way??)
13:22<cmorgan>D-side: is there an interface for making those changes in myth?
13:23<D-side>cmorgan: which, the brightness settings? per channel, sure. per card? not that i'm aware of
13:23<D-side>i know mythweb as of .12 has it per channel as well, but i want to make broad sweeping changes. :)
13:24<cmorgan>D-side: should be easy enough to write another sql procedure that will do that
13:24<Rule>I am confused about myhfilldatabase... which field holds the frequency ?
13:24<D-side>i'm about to say the most ignorant thing ever in my 8 years of using linux.
13:24<D-side>"i just want to watch tv, i dont want to learn sql"
13:24<D-side>but then
13:24<cmorgan>D-side: heh. well if you'd like the feature it will get done sooner if you work on it ;-)
13:25<_Nero_>D-side- if you want all channels set to be the same, it wouldnt be too hard..
13:25<cmorgan>Rule: table channel, column 'freqid' maybe?
13:25<D-side>cmorgan: heres an easier question to answer. using the keyboard input to change those settings.. how does one make those permanent? if you know...
13:26<cmorgan>D-side: no idea. just found out you could change that stuff from inside myth
13:26<D-side>heh.
13:26<D-side>i just built a great pundit system and now i want everything PERFECT.
13:27<Rule>cmorgan : hmm then what field is it when doing a mythfilldatabase --manual ?
13:27<Rule>doesn't seem to list it
13:27<feb>ok i'm rerunning mythtvsetup. At step 3 i have a problem:
13:27<_Nero_>D-Side- something like: update channel set brightness=xxx, contrast=yyy; will change all channels default for brightness and contrast.
13:27<Rule>also, do I have to multiply the Mhz by 16 ? (wth is that about anyway :P)
13:28<feb>my country is not listeed in the choices for xmltv
13:28<D-side>_Nero_: hm. let me back up my db and f with it.
13:28<D-side>feb: well thats your problem
13:28<_Nero_>(where xxx and yyy are the values you want for brightness and contrast)
13:28<D-side>_Nero_: seems simple enough. i *should* be able to construct an sql command for that. thank god mysql's docs are so complete.
13:29<_Nero_>D-Side- that IS the mysql command..
13:29<Rule>there is "channum" and "finetune" ... still confused :(
13:30<_Nero_>UPDATE <tablename> SET col1=expression1, col2=expression2, ... ; will update those columns, for the entire table..
13:30<feb>D-side: thanks.
13:31<_Nero_>if you want to limit it, you add a "WHERE condition" to the end.
13:31<cmorgan>D-side: just look at the existing sql that does it
13:32<cmorgan>and like _Nero_ was saying, remove the WHERE so it applies to all channels
13:32<_Nero_>does anyone know which table(s) myth looks at when starting or ending a recording? (or for that matter, checks for conflicts)??
13:32<cmorgan>then add a checkbox or something to the gui that will select the two sql statements and submit a patch ;-)
13:34<_Nero_>or, I guess the bigger question is- can I just go into the record table, and adjust the time for a given recording?? (basketball game on in 1/2 hour.. I want to make sure I get the whole thing if it goes into overtime.. so I would like to add 30 minutes on to what the channel guide gives for the recording time)
13:35<jeffpc>does anyone have an idea about this log message:
13:35<jeffpc>2003-12-06 12:49:02 backend still changing state, waiting..
13:35<cmorgan>myth appears to be quite good about picking up changes mid stream
13:35<cmorgan>but who knows if it will handle that
13:35<_Nero_>cmorgan- it hasnt happened yet..
13:35<cmorgan>not sure how it gets the info about the program
13:35<_Nero_>game starts in 30 minutes..
13:35<cmorgan>oh, then you should just be able to extend the end
13:35<_Nero_>so I was hoping to do it before..
13:35<_Nero_>ok..
13:35<cmorgan>i was talking about when the show was running, something that would seem a little bit more tricky
13:36<_Nero_>strange that the manual recording function doesnt work though.. it puts the entry into the database.. but it never gets recorded.
13:37<D-side>_Nero_: thanks for the sql help, i appreciate it.
13:39<_Nero_>np D-Side..
13:39<_Nero_>damn.. when I lengthen the time for recording, it no longer shows up as a recording to Myth..
13:40-!-dja_ [~alden@dhcp9560042.columbus.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
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13:42<D-side>now to find a way to login automatically and start X w/ the frontend
13:42<D-side>i hope i dont have to resort to gdm. :/
13:43<_Nero_>D-Side: I dont know of any way to login automatically from the commandline.. what would be so bad about gdm?? works fine here.
13:43<Rule>can anyone explain what the "channum" and "channid" fields are ? thanks
13:43<jeffpc>ok, time to grep the source :-(
13:43<D-side>_Nero_: theres a way to use gdm w/out actually using gnome, right?
13:44<_Nero_>Yeah.. I know Mandrake installs it by default, and I dont have gnome installed..
13:44<_Nero_>or you oculd use kdm (if you use kde)..
13:44<D-side>i'm going to use fluxbox.
13:45<_Nero_>what distro are you using?
13:45<D-side>gentoo.
13:45<D-side>sid pissed me off and i got tired of having to wait for packages for rh/fedora.
13:45<_Nero_>ok.. not sure thte exact commands to install on gentoo, but just install gdm.. it allows you to specify which window manager you want to use with a given user..
13:45<D-side>id rather have it somewhat package based, so gentoo seemed to be a good fit.
13:46<D-side>_Nero_: via the config file or a gui tool?
13:46<term>D-side: what theme are you using these days?
13:46<_Nero_>I just use the gui tool..
13:46<D-side>term: i bounce between visor and blue.
13:46<term>ah.
13:46<D-side>i really dig visor.
13:46<D-side>term: i made a visor based bootsplash theme.
13:46<term>I need to finish installing lirc install #2 and then fix xmltv.
13:47<D-side>not via silent, but for when console pops u p.
13:47<term>D-side: heh.
13:47<_Nero_>(in mandrake).. it allows me to specify which user to login, and which wm to use..
13:47<D-side>term: catch.
13:47<_Nero_>well.. almost game time.. bbl..
13:47<D-side>_Nero_: thanks again.
13:47<D-side>term: shaded portion = text area
13:47<term>the problem with a large home network and firewalling parts of it is that now I have to scp that somewhere I can view it.
13:48<D-side>heh
13:48<jeffpc>hmmm....
13:48<jeffpc>strange...
13:48<term>technically I could put it in my web directory, but I don't want to.
13:48<D-side>i dont blame you
13:48<term>not bad.
13:49<term>man emerge -sS takes a while.
13:49<D-side>term: i might get more creative later.
13:49<term>yeah, I'll probably install the frontend on this machine to screw with it.
13:49<D-side>i also decided having the progress bar working in bootsplash would detract from its set-top-ishness.
13:49<jeffpc>ok, I found the place where the backend hangs...
13:50<jeffpc>TVRec::StartRecording()
13:50<term>D-side: eh, I'll eventually get mine working again.
13:50<D-side>wheres that
13:50<jeffpc> VERBOSE(VB_RECORD, "backend still changing state, waiting..");
13:50<jeffpc> while (changeState)
13:50<jeffpc> usleep(50);
13:50<jeffpc> VERBOSE(VB_RECORD, "changing state finished, starting now");
13:50<D-side>jeffpc: does that happen when you try to watch live tv too?
13:50<jeffpc>in that loop
13:50<D-side>oh
13:50<D-side>term: what, the box itself?
13:50<jeffpc>changeState never changes
13:50<term>D-side: the bootsplash progress bar.
13:50<D-side>jeffpc: ignore me. i thought i could help you. i cant.
13:50<D-side>term: i see no reason to do it, for the frontend.
13:51<jeffpc>D-side: too bad :-)
13:51<D-side>i've got a nice back background with a dropshadowed mythtv logo in the middle.
13:51<D-side>jeffpc: hey give me points for *wanting* to help anyway. :)
13:51<term>D-side: well I'm going to do it for my workstation, so it'll be trivial afte rthat.
13:51<D-side>term: gentoo?
13:51<term>yeah.
13:51<D-side>term: when you figure it out, please share.
13:51<D-side>i'd love to be able to do that here too.
13:52<term>well, I already have bash code to draw it, assuming you have the progress utils installed
13:52<jeffpc>D-side: yes, you deserve +1
13:52<Rule>is "chanid" the frequency*16 field ? Currently I'm just guessing at these values. Please help me :P
13:52<term>I just need to figure out where to stick it and the amounts for the variables
13:52<D-side>woot.
13:52<D-side>term: exactly my problem
13:52<term>only takes a few reboots though
13:52<D-side>term: want to see a gentoo forums thread on the topic?
13:52<term>on what, progress bars?
13:52<D-side>http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=105142&highlight=bootsplash+livecd
13:53<D-side>yeah. i couldnt get it to work, but i invested a total of 15 minutes on it.
13:53<term>ah.
13:53<term>I just need to get around to figuring out where gentoo stuck the logos.
13:53<term>and then teach menuconfig to use mine instead of its
13:53-!-kvandivo [~kvandivo@12-221-105-19.client.insightBB.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:53<D-side>term: i have to recommend one of these asus pundits if you want a slick looking frontend box.
13:54<D-side>term: what, the regular fb logo, top left corner?
13:54<term>D-side: do they run silent?
13:54<term>yeah
13:54<D-side>term: barely noticable when the room is completely silent.
13:54<D-side>with the tv on at any volume, you'd never know.
13:54<term>hm.
13:54<term>something to consider this time next year. :)
13:54<D-side>term: thats why i want to fix apmd. when i suspend it (its actually standby) the fan and drives are still running.
13:54<Chutt>so quieter than a epia-m :p
13:54<D-side>Chutt: well no, you win on that. :)
13:54<Chutt>no
13:55<Chutt>the fan on the m10k is quite loud
13:55<D-side>i just wanted an integrated front/backend.
13:55<D-side>Chutt: oh. too bad.
13:55<term>a slick set-top box would be nice, down the road.
13:56<D-side>i've got a sid install set on an ibm microdrive (340mb) cf card. 210mb. X, mythfrontend, mplayer, lirc, etc etc.
13:56<D-side>I was planning to purchase an epia-m system, but then the pundit was spotted at a computer show and it was love at first sight.
13:56<term>I've decided I don't want to run myth on debian anymore.
13:57<D-side>i'd do a frontend on debian i guess
13:57<D-side>but i'm slowly becoming more and more of a gentoo whore every day.
13:57<term>most of my trouble was backend related
13:57<D-side>i remember.
13:57<D-side>how did you resolve your silly issues anyway?
13:57<term>silly? :)
13:57<term>gentoo resolved most of them for me.
13:57<D-side>oh. heh
13:57<term>a hell of a lot less effort.
13:57* jeffpc runs around and screams
13:58<D-side>i had some issues with my RH9 setup that gentoo fixed too. )
13:58<D-side>term: really i just like the potential turnaround time for stable releases.
13:58<D-side>sync it to the portage tree and boom.
13:58-!-bbeattie [~bbeattie@cpe-66-1-180-69.ut.sprintbbd.net] has joined #mythtv
13:58<term>D-side: yep.
13:58<term>xmltv being up to date'd be nice though
13:59<jeffpc>hmmm....TVRec::HandleStateChange() is not being executed
13:59<D-side>term: want my ebuild?
13:59<term>D-side: sure :)
13:59<jeffpc>no wonder the state doesn't change...
13:59<D-side>hold
13:59<jeffpc>changeState to be exact...
13:59<term>I'll toss it in /usr/local/portage
13:59<D-side>oh crap
13:59<term>love that overlay stuff.
13:59<D-side>DAMNIT
13:59<term>?
13:59<Netslayer>in mythweb -> scheduled recordings -> whats the difference between 'record this' and 'forget old'?
14:00<D-side>term: a sync merge clobbered it and i didnt save it.
14:00<D-side>term: its not hard to do though.
14:00<term>D-side: create an overlay.
14:00<term>it's dead easy and isn't merged over.
14:00<D-side>term: yeah as if i know enough about gentoo to do that currently. :)
14:00<term>that's how I did the ivtv driver :)
14:00<D-side>you'd be amazed at the stupid questions i have to ask in #gentoo on this network.
14:00<term>D-side: it's easy! lemme go double-check the file
14:01<term>edit /etc/make.conf
14:01<term>uncomment PORTAGE_OVERLAY and set it to something like /usr/local/portage
14:01<term>then make that dir
14:01<D-side>wait.
14:01<D-side>whats the latest xmltv?
14:01<D-side>.23 right?
14:01<term>hm
14:01<term>they finally updated
14:02<DogBoy>no, 24
14:02<term>well 23's closer than it was a few days ago.
14:02<D-side>term: what, xmltv?
14:02<term>D-side: yeah, it was .21 just the other day.
14:02<term> Latest version available: 0.5.23
14:02<term> Latest version installed: 0.5.21
14:02<Rule>0.5.24 is current
14:02<Rule>Current release
14:02<Rule>The latest version is 0.5.24.
14:02<DogBoy>I guess 23 still works unless you're in nz or something
14:02<Rule>fyi :)
14:02<D-side>understood.
14:02<term>hm, I guess xmltv didn't add itself to the world file
14:03<D-side>i'm just going to sync now and update all.
14:03<Rule>I am stuck here. I cannot find a way to manually set the frequency for a channel
14:03<D-side>when i moved it from the athlon box i had to boot off the live cd and emerge world -e
14:03<Rule>apparantly I need a xawtv file, whatever that is :)
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14:03<D-side>Rule: i thought that was possible via keypress
14:03<D-side>oh?
14:04<D-side>chanfreq or something like that exists in the db i think
14:04<Rule>well I am having to use a manual mythfilldatabase, using an xml file as input
14:04<jeffpc>TVRec::RunTV() is not getting executed
14:04<D-side>oh i get it. no default support eh?
14:04-!-Zeran [~public@CPE-144-136-248-150.wa.bigpond.net.au] has quit []
14:05<Rule>indeed. It asks me all fields, the problem is that the fields aren't documented :(
14:05<Rule>chanid, channum, etc
14:05<Rule>where to put the freq..
14:06<Rule>is asks "channel number (just like xawtv)" .. what does that mean ?
14:08<D-side>dunno.
14:08<D-side>i'd assume you should use xawtv to generate an available channel list
14:08<term>I'm mad xmltv isn't in the world file
14:08<term>hm how do I fix that
14:09<D-side>heh
14:09<D-side>i knew that two days ago
14:09<D-side>now i dont. :)
14:09<ChaosExiguum>i think you can just edit your world file
14:09<term>I'm looking at the python script
14:09<term>and being reminded how much I hate python
14:10<Rule>too bad. xawtv's scantv does not find any channels. I want to edit a xawtv file manually. Anyone have an example file ?
14:10<D-side>Rule: unfortunately no. sorry.
14:11<term>D-side: /var/cache/edb/world
14:11<jeffpc>ok, I have 22 minutes to fix this problem...
14:11<jeffpc>and I'm not sure how :-(
14:11<D-side>oh yeah. :)
14:11<D-side>jeffpc: coming down the wire on a recording eh? :)
14:12<jeffpc>yes :-)
14:12<D-side>term: i should really sit down and make a better looking bootsplash console theme.
14:12<D-side>this one is cool enough, but a little too simple.
14:13<D-side>oh jesus what have i done
14:13<D-side>apparently i'm emerging qt. :/
14:13<term>hehe
14:14<term>what were you trying to emerge?
14:14<D-side>heh.
14:14<D-side>"emerge --upgradeonly -u world -D"
14:14<D-side>my own fault. :)
14:14<term>ah.
14:14<D-side>gnome-base wants ephiphany, which wants mozilla-1.5
14:14<D-side>f that.
14:14<D-side>i use firebird anyway.
14:14<term>emereg -DUp is fun. :)
14:15<D-side>even more fun when you type it correctly i bet!
14:15<D-side>:D
14:15<term>D-side: and ephiphany REQUIRES that mozilla be built with gtk2, but it won't tell you that until you've already built mozilla.
14:15<term>that set me back several hours.
14:15<D-side>oh god.
14:15<term>damnit
14:15<term>xmltv still can't parse my listings right.
14:15<Rule>can someone check in the myth db what the "channum" field contains ?
14:15<D-side>dont tell me that.
14:15<term>I'm going to have to write the author or something.
14:15<D-side>i'm merging the little bastard now. i dont want to hear that.
14:15<term>I'll do it later.
14:16<term>D-side: I've had problems getting my listings parsed correctly since .18 or so
14:16<D-side>oh good okay. i'm safe. :)
14:16<term>I'm debating changing the area code it's using and seeing if things improve.
14:16<D-side>term: i feel like an ass with a spectacular partitioning blunder i made the other day.
14:17<D-side>previously, the os lived on an 80gb, with the /mnt/store as a fully 200gb drive.
14:17<D-side>cp'ed all of the 80 onto the 200, and stuck it in the pundit.
14:17<D-side>entirely a single partition, /dev/hda1
14:18<D-side>should have thought of swap, eh? :)
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14:19<term>D-side: create a swapfile.
14:19<D-side>already done.
14:19<term>though most people say a partition is better.
14:19<term>ah.
14:20<D-side>term: know the pros/cons for that?
14:20<term>I used swapfiles for years so I had a resizable swap area.
14:20<term>D-side: I'm guessing less thrashing since it's elsewhere on disk, but I'm not really sure.
14:21<D-side>f it anyway. too late for me.
14:21<jeffpc>D-side: ok, I just added a call to the handlestatechange thingy...if you hear me screaming in about 35 minutes, you'll know that it didn't work
14:21<jeffpc>(35 minutes = time for compile, install, and test)
14:22<D-side>heh
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14:22<D-side>i hope whatever you're trying to record is either 1) going to be repeated or 2) available for rental. :)
14:23<jeffpc>thanks a lot...
14:23<jeffpc>yes it is both...
14:23<jeffpc>and I saw it before, I just want to have it on my comp as soon as possible :-)
14:23<jeffpc>I missed it yesterday.. :-/
14:23<D-side>well if its available on dvd, rip it. mythdvd is great.
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14:24<jeffpc>well, I need to fix it anyway
14:24<D-side>true enough.
14:24<D-side>and good luck.
14:24<jeffpc>thanks
14:24<bbeattie>how does one delete a recording that is gone (Due to disk failure) But the data still remains in the database for it?
14:24<jeffpc>btw, the problem is that for any number of schedules shows, it only records the first one
14:25<jeffpc>D-side: the quick fix is to restart the backend
14:25<jeffpc>but that is somewhat impossible for marathons
14:25<D-side>wow.
14:25<D-side>indeed.
14:25<D-side>cvs?
14:25<jeffpc>yes
14:25<jeffpc>yesterday's
14:25<D-side>heh.
14:26<D-side>i'm the non-adventurous type. i stick to releases.
14:26<jeffpc>but I had this problem with 0.11 debs, and cvs for about a week
14:26<jeffpc>I hoped that CVS would be fixed :-(
14:26<D-side>very interesting.
14:26<jeffpc>oh, and I use 2.6.0-test11 kernel :-)
14:26<D-side>so basically you're just begging for trouble. got it
14:26<jeffpc>yes :-)
14:27<bbeattie>nevermind, it's working in this release.. how about deleting a tuner card in the setup program when the tuner card is no longer there?
14:27<jeffpc>I'd gladly stick to a mythtv release, but it would have to work
14:28<D-side>jeffpc: i've never seen that problem.
14:28<D-side>i think its your hardware. :)
14:28<jeffpc>D-side: :-(
14:28<D-side>bbeattie: hit d?
14:28<D-side>jeffpc: i'm half-joking and half serious.
14:28<D-side>i've never seen that problem discussed anywhere, and i've used stable releases from .7, and on.
14:28<jeffpc>D-side: the tuner works great (WinTV-Radio)
14:29<jeffpc>D-side: it looks like mythtv is not letting go of something..
14:29<D-side>dunno. wish you luck though.
14:29<jeffpc>thanks
14:29<D-side>term: you using genlop yet/
14:29<jeffpc>I'm going to be really happy if that hack work
14:29<jeffpc>s
14:29<D-side>i believe it. :)
14:30<D-side>i am still deliriously happy with my pundit. heh.
14:30<jeffpc>:-)
14:31<jeffpc>myth supports HDTV?
14:32<D-side>sort of.
14:32<jeffpc>nice
14:32<D-side>pcHDTV cards, iirc.
14:32<D-side>my lack of an hdtv keeps me from caring too much. :)
14:33<jeffpc>same here, I just noticed a file starting with hdtv :-)
14:34<jeffpc>what's ivtv used for?
14:36<D-side>pvr-250/350 cards.
14:36<D-side>built in mpeg2 encoders.
14:36<jeffpc>oh, ok...
14:36<jeffpc>so that doesn't concern me
14:36<D-side>not yet. eventually you'll want one. :)
14:37<jeffpc>I heard something about them...and a problem that's very similar to mine
14:37<jeffpc>well, on a dedicated box :-)
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14:42<jeffpc>compile...complete
14:43<bbeattie>D-side: hitting d in the menu for capture cards doesn't delete any (Try to create a new bogus one, then try to delete it, all using the setup program)
14:43<Netslayer>i've heard some people complain about via based mobo's, should i be concerned? not using a pvr250, just a ati wonder ve bt chipset
14:43<D-side>bbeattie: hm. dunno.
14:44<D-side>bbeattie: i'd just kill it from the sql db
14:45<jeffpc>D-side: ok, I just schedules two consecutive recordings (tests)
14:45<jeffpc>let's see if it works :-)
14:45<D-side>good luck.
14:45<jeffpc>thanks
14:46<jeffpc>the backend seems very unstable...
14:47<jeffpc>the frontend loses connection too often
14:47<jeffpc>that's besides the whole recording thing
14:47<jeffpc>ok, it is going to begin in 10 sec...
14:48<jeffpc>ok, it is recording the first one
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14:50<brunes>hey all.. I heave a feature suggestion for myth
14:50<brunes>the ability to manually add a channel to the guide
14:50<jeffpc>D-side: nope :-(
14:51<jeffpc>D-side: only the first one :-(
14:51<brunes>some people have access to channels that arent on the regular XMLTV returned guide, and currently its impossible to tune to them in myth
14:51<Netslayer>if it's not in xmltv how do u expect to find programs?
14:52<brunes>i dont want a guide, I just want ot be able to change to that channel
14:52<Netslayer>i mean i think u can just manually edit the db and add it, it's not hard use phpMyAdmin
14:52<brunes>you cant even change to the channel at all if it isnt in the myth guide
14:52<Netslayer>true
14:52<brunes>yeah I know I can add it via mysql, just saying there should be an interface
14:53<brunes>like, for me, its my front lobby cam in my building
14:53<Netslayer>ya i agree, i want actually a delete feature in mythweb channel setup, that would be great
14:53-!-Justin__ [~justin@169.226.250.136] has joined #mythtv
14:53<brunes>yeah a delete channel would be nice too
14:53<Netslayer>i watch like 5/500
14:53<brunes>theres a bunch of channels I could care less about
14:53<Netslayer>seriously heh
14:54<Netslayer>somemade made a program to all this before, forgot what it was called, might want to search the mailing list
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14:56<brunes>so, if I add a channel ot the "channels" table, will it show in the guide?
14:56<brunes>and mythfilldatabase wont crap out?
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14:59<Netslayer>beats me, try it
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15:00<Netslayer>make sure u add enough info in there, or it may give u problems, like all the chnl id, etc
15:00<brunes>ok, just filled it all in
15:01<brunes>brb
15:01<brunes>well, seemed to work
15:02<brunes>now though, will mythfilldatabse puke :P
15:04<D-side>brunes: hm. edit the ~/.mythtv/xmltvfile ?
15:04<D-side>i wonder if thats necessary.
15:05<brunes>well i dont want to add the channel there...
15:05<brunes>it has bo guide data to fetch
15:05<jeffpc>D-side: do you see anything that stands out in the log? http://68.194.24.168:10080/download/mythbackend.log
15:05<jeffpc>I added couple of things, that tell me what's going on..(ie. the seconds countdown)
15:06<jeffpc>I don't like:
15:06<jeffpc>DB Error (doneRecording):
15:06<jeffpc>Query was:
15:06<jeffpc>INSERT INTO oldrecorded (chanid,starttime,endtime,title,subtitle,description,category) VALUES(2002,"2003-12-06T14:48:00","2003-12-06T14:49:00","Test","2003/12/06 14:48","Sat Dec 6 - (1min) - Manual recording","Manual recording");
15:06<jeffpc>Driver error was [2/1062]:
15:06<jeffpc>QMYSQL3: Unable to execute query
15:06<jeffpc>Database error was:
15:06<jeffpc>Duplicate entry '2002-20031206144800' for key 1
15:08<D-side>i dont like it either, but i'm not able to help you. sorry. :/
15:08<jeffpc>ok :-)
15:09<jeffpc>I guess, I should just transcode all the recorded stuff, and trash the db
15:09<jeffpc>or something like that
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16:32<synthmeme>Hi
16:34<synthmeme>I've decided to give up on trying to get ivtv-fb working on my PVR-350 for the moment and am just going to use the software MPEG decoder in mythtv and VGA output on a radeon card until the driver stablizes a bit. I have video working without issue in this setup, but am struggling a bit getting sound to work. Anyone else using this setup, w/ a PVR-350 not using the TV-out?
16:36-!-Drikus [~Drikus@cc45940-a.deven1.ov.home.nl] has quit ["toedeledoki"]
16:40<warlord>a pvr-350 w/o tv-out is just like a pvr-250... it should work just fine.
16:40<warlord>what kind of sound issues do you get?
16:41-!-robbie__ [~rob@ESS-p-144-138-96-65.mega.tmns.net.au] has joined #mythtv
16:41<synthmeme>no sound, and a bit of confusion over how to install cables. should I have audio out from my sound card going to line in on the pvr-350?
16:42<Chutt>no sound generally means you didn't follow the ivtv instructions and are using the wrong msp3400 kernel module
16:42<warlord>synthmeme: if you're not using tv-out, then ignore the dongle cable..
16:42<synthmeme>i have sound in mythtv (UI sounds), but no TV sound
16:43<warlord>then hook up line-in on your tv to audio-out on your sound card.
16:43<synthmeme>that's my current config
16:44<warlord>you only need line-in on the pvr if you're also using the s-video/composite input.
16:44<warlord>can you play a regular sound file?
16:44<warlord>(mp3, ogg, etc?)
16:44<synthmeme>i can play videos through mythtv and get audio
16:45<Chutt><Chutt> no sound generally means you didn't follow the ivtv instructions and are using the wrong msp3400 kernel module
16:45<warlord>right, so listen to Chutt.
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16:47<synthmeme>i've been following the instrucitons/howto's for the pvr-350 tv-out up to this point, and decided to switch back to using the sw decoder given current instability. i haven't seen other docs - the ivtv site is kind of sparse.
16:47-!-robbie_ [~rob@ESS-p-144-138-96-165.mega.tmns.net.au] has quit [Connection timed out]
16:47<synthmeme>Can you point me to a doc?
16:47<robbie__>look at the ivtv wiki
16:47<Chutt>http://ivtv.writeme.ch/tiki-view_faq.php?faqId=1
16:47-!-robbie__ is now known as robbie
16:47<robbie>or tiki :)
16:47* robbie is hungover
16:49<gerhard>hi all, how stable is you system? mine crashes about once a week. is that normal?
16:49<warlord>define "crashes"
16:49<Chutt>gerhard, if it crashes, get a backtrace.
16:49<Chutt>if you don't want to do that, don't bitch about it crashing.
16:49<warlord>I rarely see the myth code crash; however the ivtv drivers are still very flakey.
16:50<Chutt>that too =)
16:51<gerhard>Im not bitching about it, its not a big deal just wanted to hear others experience, chill
16:51<Netslayer>this is odd i'm finding mythtv is now using more cpu when recording with mpeg4. I've been scaling the bandwidth down to even 2500 and it's still at 90%. I'm running an AMD 2400XP at 2.2ghz
16:52<Chutt>bandwidth doesn't affect cpu usage
16:52<Chutt>resolution does more
16:52<Netslayer>really?
16:52<Netslayer>huh
16:52<Chutt>yeah, pretty much
16:52<robbie>crash ? my box gets rebpted too often for me to notice
16:52<warlord>actually, I would expect that lower bitrate would use MORE cpu....
16:52<Chutt>nope, it's pretty static
16:52<Chutt>you'd expect it, but..
16:52<Netslayer>just tried rtjpeg and cpu is the same heh
16:53<Chutt>you're not running in debug mode?
16:53<Netslayer>uh that's something i should check
16:53<Chutt>much higher bitrates actually use more cpu
16:53<Netslayer>u mean when i start myth, check the flags
16:53<Chutt>since you're copying around more data
16:53<Chutt>when you compiled it
16:54<Netslayer>just did normal CVS, didn't touch the files except for LCD
16:54<Netslayer>just using verbose flag options
16:55<Netslayer>heh 8.5MB log file on backend
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16:59<D-side>is there a volume balance control i'm unaware of?
16:59<Chutt>it always adjusts the left/right channels together
16:59<Netslayer>hey i noticed you removed the shutdown pc option when backing out of the frontend for backends. Can you make that optional somewhere, or is there an easy of getting that back? I'm setting up a slave backend/frontend and I kinda need that option
16:59<D-side>for whatever reason, watching tv (or recording it) leaves the right audio channel nearly muted. works correctly with mythdvd and mythmusic, as well as all other non-myth related apps.
16:59<D-side>very odd.
17:00<Chutt>netslayer, it's only shown if there's no backend running on that machine
17:00<Netslayer>what about a slave backend?
17:00<Netslayer>same thing right
17:00<Chutt>that's a backend
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17:00<jeffpc>hmmm...strange...
17:00<jeffpc>2003-12-06 16:59:04 ReadStringList timeout (quick).
17:00<jeffpc>Remote encoder not responding.
17:00<jeffpc>2003-12-06 16:59:05 Changing from WatchingLiveTV to None
17:00<jeffpc>2003-12-06 16:59:05 Changing from None to None
17:00<jeffpc>2003-12-06 16:59:20 ReadStringList timeout.
17:00<jeffpc>Connection to backend server lost
17:01<Netslayer>I think it's still a good feature to have there, maybe if it can tell if it's the master backend then don't shut that one down
17:02<Chutt>netslayer, that's the point of not having it on the menu
17:03<Netslayer>i'm saying it's a good feature to allow a user to shutdown anything but a masterbackend, slave backends should be allowed to since they are not vital
17:03<Chutt>sure they are, you don't know what's scheduled to record on there
17:04<Netslayer>hmm, your right, i guess it's not a big deal i'm having that slave use an auto timed shutdown and startup anyway
17:05<Netslayer>just put mpeg4 to 8Mbps with uncompressed 48khz audio, full cpu and it's not stuttering heh
17:05<Netslayer>it used to crash before when i told it to goto anything other than 32khz since i'm using btaudio.. interesting
17:05<Chutt>btaudio doesn't do anything but 32khz
17:06<Netslayer>so it's all lies?
17:06<Netslayer>i can set 48khz in the record profile, ur saying behind the scenes it's always 32
17:07<Chutt>do you have it set to 32 in the backend setup?
17:07<synthmeme>OK, thanks for the help. As it turns out, my default audio device was set to /dev/adsp/ rather than /dev/dsp
17:07<Netslayer>ya probably
17:07<Chutt>that overrides any setting on the frontend.
17:07<Netslayer>k ic
17:12<D-side>term: you're having the same problem as I am?
17:12<term>D-side: I think I may be.
17:13<D-side>well wtf then?
17:13<D-side>different audio cards, yes? i've got a crap intel 8x0
17:14<term>I'm using onboard nvidia audio.
17:15<term>might be the same driver though (nforce audio uses the nvaudio driver or i810_audio driver, the former being a derivative of the latter)
17:15<D-side>not good. thats the same chipset.
17:15<warlord>you may need to transcode to 48K
17:15<D-side>term: alsa's a better choice.
17:15<term>D-side: eh, it works.
17:15<warlord>I've had no trouble with the nvaudio driver.
17:15<D-side>well.
17:16<D-side>i should rephrase that. alsa is a better choice for me, as it enables the optical input/output of my card.
17:16<D-side>so that takes the driver out of the equation.
17:17<term>yeah.
17:18<D-side>well.
17:18<D-side>somehow i think 1gb per 20minutes of recording is a bit excessive.
17:18<synthmeme>any thoughts on why audio would be very quiet viewing live tv, while all other audio is reasonably loud w/ master set @ 75% using alsa?
17:18<term>I'm seeing a trend..
17:19<D-side>indeed.
17:19<kvandivo>1gb / 20 min seems about right to me
17:19<term>I'd check the faq to see if this is related to anything in it, but I'm not working on my mythtv box right now
17:19<Netslayer>eekk mpeg4 @ 2300 = 1Gb/hr
17:19<kvandivo>guess bitrate is horribly depended on the quality that one desires, though
17:19<D-side>apparently its the gb/20minutes when 3200 :)
17:19<D-side>term: not that i'm aware of
17:20<janek>well, my dvb-t is 3.6GB/h ;)
17:20<Netslayer>for SPDIF/AC3 out's on audio cards, will they only output from a 48khz source? like can mythtv/mythmusic/mythvideo use that?
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17:20<D-side>thats a great question
17:20<janek>Netslayer: AC3 is at 48khz, yes
17:21<janek>but the audio-out should be able to do pcm at 44.1
17:21<Netslayer>my tv is 32khz, music is 41khz, video is 41khz so how does that work?
17:21<Netslayer>so i can't send my 32khz mythtv sound over it
17:21<Netslayer>on the other hand if i actually get my audigy working i'll use that to record at 44
17:22<janek>actually 3
17:22<janek>32khz should work too
17:22<Netslayer>i might just switch my cards around and try to get my usb extigy to work in linux cause my audigy is based on that EMU10k2 chipset that's not supported.. very annoying
17:26<Netslayer>u guys that have spdif working do u have to set any flags in alsa or just try sending audio out through that /dev/
17:28<D-side>i didnt say i have it WORKING.
17:28<D-side>i just said alsa enables it. :)
17:28<Netslayer>heh
17:28<Netslayer>ya i'll post on the list see what people say
17:29<Netslayer>also wondering about how to map a key to script, should just be as easy as editing that key bindings file and adding a filename i'm guessing
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17:32<janek>I used to have spdif working, I bought a cheapo card that just outputs the plain spdif (rather than resampling it like the SBLives did)
17:33<janek>it should be pretty simple
17:33<Netslayer>what's the difference?
17:33<janek>well the SBLive, if you try to output 44.1 khz stuff through it would resample it first to 48khz then sample it back down to 44.1khaz
17:33<janek>and it's got a bad resampler so it just messes the sound up a bit basically
17:33<Netslayer>well my card is like half working with alsa, i'm not quite sure of what it's doing, i'll take any hints at spdif out :-)
17:34<janek>I didn't actually use OSS at the time so I might not be much use ;)
17:34<Netslayer>really? the audigy can't be that bad
17:34<janek>I think the audigy was fixed in that respect
17:34<Chutt>"can't be that bad"
17:34<Netslayer>heh
17:34<Chutt>it's creative labs, everything they make is shit :p
17:34<janek>it's got other issues ;)
17:34<Netslayer>i like my extigy
17:34<janek>actually, I love the linux drivers for creative cards
17:35<Netslayer>ya but they still don't have audigy 2 linux support
17:35<janek>that's sucky
17:35<janek>didn't know about that
17:35<janek>anyway i'll bbl
17:35<Netslayer>and my audigy one has a audigy 2 chipset
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17:48<D-side>well screw it. i'll be an alsa 1.0.0_rc1 guinea pig.
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18:01<Netslayer>the last two emails i sent to the user list never made it, this is odd. I'm registered, and they aren't returning but never arrive either
18:02<Netslayer>mythtv
18:02<Netslayer>E-mail Address(es):
18:02<Netslayer> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
18:02<Netslayer>that's right isn't it
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18:23<Netslayer>great, 2nd time today this has happened "Waited 2 seconds for data to become available, waiting again..." while watching live tv for about an hr
18:25<robbie>using a pvr card ?
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18:27<Netslayer>nope wintv dbx
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19:16<Netslayer>i knew i shouldn't have touched alsa dang. i now have no audio and in myth when i go vol up/down it jumps all over the place to like 240%, 48%
19:16<D-side>wow.
19:16<D-side>thats impressive.
19:16<D-side>how in the hell did you manage that
19:17<Netslayer>cvs'd alsa, then just cvscompile, make install
19:17<Netslayer>it's a touch i tell you, nothing works in linux after i try to fix it
19:17<D-side>why cvs?
19:17<D-side>using an exotic chipset?
19:17<Netslayer>audigy with an emu10k2 ya
19:17<Netslayer>dang this sucks, i'm lost
19:18<D-side>well
19:18<Netslayer>where is the myth mute button?
19:18<D-side>any logged errors?
19:18<D-side>its an F key. dont know which.
19:19<sfr>Netslayer: or |
19:19<D-side>that one.
19:19<D-side>forgot that.
19:20<Netslayer>Reading PCI volume: : Invalid Argument
19:21<Netslayer>Setting volume : Invalid argument
19:21<Netslayer>Setting mut : ...
19:21<Netslayer>mute
19:21<Netslayer>audio device cannot report buffer state accurately
19:21<Netslayer>a/v sync will be bad, continuing anyway
19:24<Netslayer>what..
19:24<Netslayer>mythvideo (mplayer) works with audio
19:26<Netslayer>usually whenever i try to load something or do something like start amixer i get this: amixer: Mixer attach default error: No such device
19:34<Netslayer> modprobe emu10k1 gives errors: init_module: no such device
19:37<Netslayer> i think it's more how do u get alsa to see an audigy 2 card
19:42<synthmeme>Anyone using an nforce2 motherboard w/ ALSA an finding that audio is *really* quiet when watching live tv?
19:43<synthmeme>For some reason, Myth thinks I'm using OSS even though my ALSA drivers are loaded.
19:43<synthmeme>When I go into Live TV, I see: "Opening OSS audio device /dev/dsp"
19:44<synthmeme>that line comes from audiooutputoss.cpp: VERBOSE(VB_GENERAL, QString("Opening OSS audio device '%1'.")
19:45<synthmeme>in audiooutput.cpp, there's this block that checks for the device name:
19:45<synthmeme> if(audiodevice.startsWith("ALSA:"))
19:45<synthmeme> {
19:45<synthmeme>#ifdef USE_ALSA
19:45<synthmeme> return new AudioOutputALSA(audiodevice.remove(0, 5), audio_bits,
19:45<synthmeme> audio_channels, audio_samplerate);
19:45<synthmeme>#else
19:45<synthmeme> printf("Audio output device is set to an ALSA device but ALSA support is not compiled in!\n");
19:45<synthmeme> return NULL;
19:45<synthmeme>#endif
19:45<synthmeme> }
19:45<synthmeme> else
19:45<synthmeme> return new AudioOutputOSS(audiodevice, audio_bits,
19:45<synthmeme> audio_channels, audio_samplerate);
19:45<synthmeme>}
19:45<synthmeme>and USE_ALSA is definitely defined.
19:50<synthmeme>Anyone have any thoughts?
19:50<synthmeme>looking at NuppelVideoPlayer.cpp, the object that calls AudioOutput, the name of the audiodevice is "/dev/dsp"
19:51<synthmeme>doesn't look like there's any room in there for a name starting with "ALSA"
19:53<cmorgan>could add a printf in there
19:53<cmorgan>to see if it really is using alsa
19:55<bbeattie>heh, I upgraded mythtv today (cvs) and all video is blue (including older recordings) I have XvMC disabled too, anyone report this yet?
19:55<synthmeme>so I commented out the #ifdefs and the AudioOpenOSS..., restarted mythfrontend, and got this:
19:55<synthmeme>ALSA lib pcm.c:1906:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM dsp
19:55<synthmeme>Opening ALSA audio device 'dsp'.
19:55<synthmeme>Playback open error: No such file or directory
19:55<D-side>pfh.
19:56<synthmeme>does ALSA not use /dev/dsp?
19:56<D-side>i still wish i could figure out why i only have the left audio channel working
19:57<cmorgan>synthmeme: no idea
19:57<synthmeme>bleah
19:57<synthmeme>ok
19:57<cmorgan>why not look around for info on that? alsa-project.org
19:58<synthmeme>thanks. i'm there (and other sites now). hopefully will find something.
20:04<D-side>aha
20:04<D-side>someone on the users list has had the same problem i do now.
20:05<D-side>no solution posted though. :/
20:08<D-side>hm. lots of people have seen this problem. wtf.
20:26<Netslayer>is overscan busted in the new NV driver?
20:27-!-jkrohn [jkrohn@12-221-102-8.client.insightBB.com] has joined #mythtv
20:30<Netslayer>is /dev/dsp for alsa, i just installed it, and i think it works but don't know which snd devices it uses
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20:36* jeffpc is really frustrated with mythtv
20:39<cmorgan>?
20:40<jeffpc>yes, I like mythtv, but it is really misbehaving
20:40<jeffpc>1) the frontend keeps on losing the connection with the backend
20:41<jeffpc>2) the backend records only the first out of any number of scheduled shows
20:41<jeffpc>that's it, I think..
20:44<jeffpc>btw, I'm using WinTV-Radio (bttv) on Debian Unstable with MythTV CVS from yesterdat
20:44<jeffpc>yesterday
20:44<jeffpc>and 2.6.0-test11 kernel
20:53<D-side>you're not alone.
20:53<D-side>its pissing me off too. :)
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21:18<billytwowilly>thor_: you there?
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21:46<bbeattie>anyone know how to get two remotes to work with lircd?
21:47* Ripp is back (gone 09:58:44)
22:07<billytwowilly>bbeattie: are they the same remote?
22:15<Netslayer>heh well i totaly screwed up my myth box
22:15<Netslayer>just keep adding remote profiles in that file
22:16<Netslayer>now that i have my new NV drivers, overscan isn't working, now that I have ALSA working mythtv think's it's still in OSS, btaudio isn't working, .. ahahah heh
22:17<D-side>i think i'm going to throw my mythtv box out the window.
22:17<D-side>afk
22:17* Netslayer mutters it's all mandrakes fault
22:18<Netslayer>ok for u guys using alsa what device do u play from? /dev/dsp?
22:18* jeffpc stops D-side
22:19* jeffpc gets the sledge hammer
22:19<Netslayer>that's it i'm doing a double gentoo install next weekend, i've had it with this iffy mandrake box
22:19<Netslayer>i seriously have been fearing touching it, and i did today. I was right, it totaly screwed itself over (ya it has an AI and it's out to get me)
22:20<Netslayer>that and my fortune cookie said "work on improving your exercise routine", i can't get over this.. they have been so right lately
22:21<Netslayer>and why don't any of my posts show up on the list eekk
22:26<bbeattie>billytwowilly: no, different
22:26<bbeattie>I really should just buy a learning remote for my ir keyboard
22:32<Ripp>hey guys, does mythtv need to be recompiled against a new kernel? I just upgraded to 2.4.23 and now playback gets randomly sllloooowwwerrr
22:34<Ripp>just wondering coz something got broke... :)
22:36* Ripp is away: AFK
22:38<Netslayer>hope not...could be the root of all evil for me though
22:39<D-side>now we shall try the OSS driver.
22:39<D-side>if it does the same thing, the box is going out the window
22:40<Netslayer>how are u switching between OSS and ALSA in mythtv?
22:40<Netslayer>I have ALSA installed, but /dev/dsp gives buffer problems and stuff, and it's reported as OSS
22:42<D-side>i'm not doing it in mythtv.
22:43<billytwowilly>D-side: you running mandrake 9.2?
22:47<D-side>absolutely not.
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22:49<billytwowilly>ok, nevermind then. mandrake 9.2 was giving me a whole bunch of problems with sound as well.
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23:13<D-side>well
23:13<D-side>apparently my problem lies within alsa.
23:13<D-side>however its only mythtv that exhibits this particular problem
23:15<jeffpc>is it mythtv-users@mythtv.org?
23:18<D-side>once you've signed up to the list, yes.
23:18<D-side>you cant just shoot them off without being subscribed.
23:21<jeffpc>ok, that's fine
23:21<jeffpc>thanks
23:26<Netslayer>D-side, i'm kinda in the same boat
23:27<billytwowilly>D-side: is your problem with getting full duplex working with tv watch/recording?
23:27<D-side>i wouldnt call it full duplex.
23:27<D-side>its a single audio channel (left)
23:27<billytwowilly>ok, making recording and playing work at the same time?
23:27<D-side>no
23:27<billytwowilly>That's the exact problem I had with mandrake 9.2
23:27<D-side>i thought it might be related.
23:27<D-side>its not.
23:27<D-side>recordings alone are also missing the right audio channel.
23:28<billytwowilly>ok, are you using the latest alsa?
23:28<D-side>OSS works fine.
23:28<D-side>0.9.8, and even tried 1.0.0_rc1
23:28<billytwowilly>hmmm.
23:28<D-side>both exhibit the same problem
23:28<billytwowilly>No idea then, sorry. using 0.9.8 fixed my problem.
23:28<billytwowilly>which is a different problem than yours anyway..
23:29<billytwowilly>you could try #alsa
23:29<Netslayer>it's dead in #alsa
23:30<Netslayer>i just can't figure out what's going on /dev/dsp for playback crashes it will buffer problems now that I have ALSA loaded up
23:30<billytwowilly>ok, I just popped in and saw the 19 people;) I didn't stay long enough to see talking;)
23:31<billytwowilly>#linuxhelp is fairly lively and has 149 people..
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23:50<bobnvic>I've been getting the "waited 2 seconds for data to become available..." error on my frontend nearly every day for last two months. I've seen it mentioned on the mailing list, but any resolution. I just terminate the frontend and start it again and it is fine, but my wife is getting pretty irritated with it. any ideas?
23:52<bobnvic>change "but any resolution" to "but without any resolution"
23:55<Netslayer>ya i'll second that, just updated to current cvs, from ~v12 and it's a new bug i see
23:56<Netslayer>although i don't have any other info :-/
23:58<bobnvic>I'm still on CVS from right about the time .12 was released. I also had it on every install I did prior to that with .10, .11 and lots of CVS between.
---Logclosed Sun Dec 07 00:00:06 2003