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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2005-02-21

---Logopened Mon Feb 21 00:00:31 2005
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01:23rkulagow hey. dopester: here?
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08:06_GeckoFiend Morning folks
08:06o_cee hiya
08:06o_cee 2pm :)
08:07dja well it's morning to some of us :-)
08:15dopester yawn
08:34_GeckoFiend bah I've been up for 3.5 hours :-p
08:40o_cee GeckoFiend, just tried the wide theme briefly, doesn't look good on 4:3 :) but i just noticed there's no altarea for the desc if you haven't got any preview like me
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08:47_GeckoFiend yeah, I need to clean up the alt areas, as well as the "no programs" stuff and the like on a lot of screens
08:47_GeckoFiend and yeah it'll look like crap on 4:3
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09:45choudesh Hello all, anyone around?
09:45o_cee choudesh, yeah, topic please
09:46choudesh oops, need to jump to users.
09:46choudesh o_cee, just needed some help with Ubuntu and the device for the capture card
09:46o_cee #mythtv-users
09:46choudesh o_cee, I know. ;-)
09:47choudesh o_cee, doesn't seem anyone is around.
09:47choudesh o_cee, mind helping?
09:47o_cee no, i'm busy
09:47choudesh ok. sorry to bother.
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09:52gratz|work does anyone know if cx88-dvb module works on 2.6.10 kernel?
09:52gratz|work having problems loading it
10:05_GeckoFiend gratz|work /topic
10:05o_cee Chutt, maybe more people would see an OnJoin message from chanserv?
10:07gratz|work oops
10:08gratz|work sorry
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10:53jams _GeckoFiend, does the Minimalist theme have support for more then one row of icons? I have some rows that are offscreen that normally I would use the up/down arrow keys to access. Up/down isn't working in this case.
10:54_GeckoFiend jams_ no it doesn't. Which menus have more than 6 items?
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10:56jams By default none of them. This happened after I switched to my own copy of the menu which has some extra buttons
10:57jams Thats cool I will modify the menus to have less then 6
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11:28thor_ 2005-02-21 11:00:09.173 Unknown command: UNKNOWN_COMMAND
11:28thor_ 2005-02-21 11:00:09.223 Unknown command: UNKNOWN_COMMAND
11:28thor_ 2005-02-21 11:00:09.253 Unknown command: UNKNOWN_COMMAND
11:28thor_ 2005-02-21 11:00:09.263 Unknown command: UNKNOWN_COMMAND
11:28thor_ 2005-02-21 11:00:09.272 Unknown command: UNKNOWN_COMMAND
11:28thor_ 2005-02-21 11:00:09.282 Unknown command: UNKNOWN_COMMAND
11:28thor_ 2005-02-21 11:00:09.293 Unknown command: UNKNOWN_COMMAND
11:28thor_ 2005-02-21 11:00:09.302 Unknown command: UNKNOWN_COMMAND
11:28thor_ 2005-02-21 11:00:09.313 Unknown command: UNKNOWN_COMMAND
11:28thor_ 2005-02-21 11:00:09.322 Unknown command: UNKNOWN_COMMAND
11:29o_cee heh
11:29thor_ that seems a bit odd
11:29thor_ every tenth of a second
11:29thor_ might explain why things seems a bit sluggish
11:29Beirdo hey look, the unknown command is unknown :)
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11:39_GeckoFiend LOL my office mate just explained the concept of a "DP" scene to one of the Indian programmers
11:45Beirdo oh god
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13:35thor_ Chutt, you about?
13:38thor_ Anyway, if you catch this on scrollback ... porting libmyth AudioOutput to mfd, and thinking about more "standard" ways to add network based audio output (music viz), etc.
13:39thor_ Came across RAOP, which seems nice
13:39thor_ and would make things work with airport expresses
13:39thor_ but ... stupid old apple has an AES encryption over the audio data
13:40thor_ It is trivial to overcome (see http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=119473&package_id=130187)
13:40thor_ but there are reverse engineered keys in there
13:41thor_ we have a problem with reverse engineered keys in myth cvs?
13:43thor_ if necessary, I guess I could start a trivial sourceforge project (libdeAppleRaopAes?) and do a runtime link
13:45thor_ see also: http://www.nanocrew.net/blog/apple/revairtunes.html
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13:47Beirdo I would think it's likely better to keep that external, but that's Chutt's call :)
13:47thor_ it's farily subtle, as it's only a PUBLIC key that is required
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13:48Beirdo :)
13:48Beirdo well, I guess we'll see what he thinks when he gets in
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14:12mikegrb Beirdo: you just try calling?
14:13Beirdo yep
14:13Beirdo to the conference number, mistyped
14:13--- User: *** splAt1 is now known as splat1
14:13Beirdo I meant to type 501, I hit 502. did it ring the phones and stuff?
14:13mikegrb nah
14:14mikegrb just happened to be playing with some stuff and saw it on the console
14:14Beirdo Oh good. I'd hate to be responsible for waking a baby :)
14:14mikegrb heidi wasn't liking that the sip phone just hangs up when the phone number dialed is busy
14:14mikegrb was adjusting that
14:14Beirdo ahh
14:15Beirdo that would be annoying
14:15Beirdo should go to Congestion
14:15mikegrb since it is a trunk my end is responsible for generating busy signal and other type stuff
14:15Beirdo fun. :)
14:15mikegrb aye, but it's a hard phone, recognizes congestion and drops the call :/
14:16mikegrb well have to futz with it's setup to see if I can tell it to not do that, the ata's properly generate the busy signal
14:16Beirdo oops, just putzed my xchat :)
14:17Beirdo was trying to add a server entry for my proxied connection to the other server, and told it to close this one by mistake (oops)
14:18--- ---> marc_gerges [~gergesm@cable-83.217.133.202.coditel.net] has joined #mythtv
14:18marc_gerges hello
14:18marc_gerges I have a dual tuner box.
14:18marc_gerges recording works nicely.
14:18marc_gerges But I just noticed watching livetv on tuner 1, it claimed that tuner to record a preprogrammed show
14:18marc_gerges although tuner2 was free
14:18* Beirdo wonders if this is going to progress to a user support question
14:19marc_gerges .....ugh
14:19marc_gerges yes
14:19mikegrb it is
14:19Beirdo topic.. :)
14:19marc_gerges sorry. Wrong forum
14:19marc_gerges yes, I know
14:19marc_gerges sorry, guys. Free beer for everyone who comes and gets :-)
14:20marc_gerges I'll move over -bye
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14:28thor_ error closing /tmp/cvs-serv11801/./CVS/Repository
14:28thor_ No space left on device
14:28thor_ bah
14:31Beirdo that don't sound good
14:31Chutt just wait a few minutes, and it'll clear itself out
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14:34thor_ yup
14:34thor_ you see my scrollback on RAOP?
14:34Chutt nope
14:34thor_ [13:36:22] <thor_> Chutt, you about?
14:34thor_ [13:39:34] <thor_> Anyway, if you catch this on scrollback ... porting libmyth AudioOutput to mfd, and thinking about
14:34thor_ more "standard" ways to add network based audio output (music viz), etc.
14:34thor_ [13:39:56] <thor_> Came across RAOP, which seems nice
14:34thor_ [13:40:07] <thor_> and would make things work with airport expresses
14:35thor_ [13:40:39] <thor_> but ... stupid old apple has an AES encryption over the audio data
14:35thor_ [13:41:26] <thor_> It is trivial to overcome (see http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=119473&package_id=130187)
14:35thor_ [13:41:39] <thor_> but there are reverse engineered keys in there
14:35thor_ [13:41:55] <thor_> we have a problem with reverse engineered keys in myth cvs?
14:35thor_ [13:43:55] <thor_> if necessary, I guess I could start a trivial sourceforge project (libdeAppleRaopAes?) and do a runtime link
14:35thor_ [13:46:06] <thor_> see also: http://www.nanocrew.net/blog/apple/revairtunes.html
14:35thor_ [13:47:12] Signoff: beavis (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
14:35thor_ [13:47:51] <Beirdo> I would think it's likely better to keep that external, but that's Chutt's call :)
14:35thor_ [13:48:14] <thor_> it's farily subtle, as it's only a PUBLIC key that is required
14:35Chutt eh
14:35Chutt there's no more standard protocol?
14:36thor_ RAOP is a nice standard
14:36thor_ just Apple added a twist
14:36thor_ (only required for Airport express interaction)
14:38Chutt why not just use rtsp?
14:38Chutt or whatnot
14:38thor_ they are extremely similar
14:40thor_ for music viz, it would be RTSP. Add the AES encryption, and the same code will talk to an airport express
14:40Chutt why's music viz any different than remote playback?
14:42thor_ file access/modify/copy protocols versus PCM stream ?
14:42thor_ (was that your question)?
14:42Chutt not really
14:43Chutt you've already got it streaming audio around, no?
14:43thor_ yes
14:43Chutt question was, why is music viz any different from that?
14:43thor_ 'cause the client does not do any decoding
14:43Chutt why not? :p
14:43thor_ headless mfd
14:43Chutt that's just a less complicated case
14:44Chutt and actually, things may work better if mfd didn't do any decoding that it didn't have to
14:44Chutt ie, it just streamed the file on demand, and the frontend played it
14:45thor_ bad for lightweight clients
14:45thor_ (eg. Zauraus)
14:45Chutt which can decode mp3 just fine
14:45thor_ right, but I'd rather use it to control another box
14:45Chutt and you could always stream the pcm data
14:45Chutt ie., 'decoding it didn't have to'
14:46Chutt right, there's a difference between 'play this here', or 'play on that machine'.
14:46thor_ yes
14:46thor_ right now, one client can cycle through every mfd and control all playing
14:47thor_ many to one, one to many, and many to many
14:47Chutt so, how's video playback going to work?
14:47thor_ heh, no headless video
14:48Chutt so?
14:48Chutt is video playback going to live in the mfd?
14:48thor_ no
14:48Chutt how's it going to negotiate control of the audio device?
14:48Chutt what about sounds in the ui?
14:49thor_ I'm note saying the client should not be able to decode, I'm just saying I want to preserve the ability to control audio on another box
14:49Chutt i'm saying you don't lose that at all.
14:50Chutt i think you're concentrating solely on audio, and not thinking about it within mythtv :p
14:50thor_ audio is a special case
14:50Chutt why?
14:51thor_ cause it can be headless
14:51Chutt it shouldn't be
14:51Chutt there has to be _some_ ui
14:53thor_ heh, either we are not disagreeing, or I'm being stupid and missing something important
14:53Chutt think about the simplest case - one machine running everything
14:53Chutt how does video playback work?
14:54Chutt is the vis stuff really going to go over the network for that?
14:54Chutt have you really gotten the vis effects in sync with the audio playback over the network?
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14:55toyowheelin hey all
14:55thor_ to my untrained eye, yes
14:55thor_ and yes, I was planning on having the viz go over sockets if it's all one box
14:56thor_ but that may well be insanely stupid
14:56Chutt well, it's not necessarily, but, if it doesn't have to be, then why?
14:57thor_ cause then it matters not a wit if it is, or is not the same box
14:57Chutt uncompressed audio's fairly big, though
14:57toyowheelin I have a Gallant InterVision IV-550 tv tuner and I am running gentoo, but I cant figure out how to tell the kernel what card and tuner it has and the PLL frequency
14:57Chutt toyowheelin, read the topic.
14:57toyowheelin wups
14:58toyowheelin sorry Chutt
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14:58thor_ for video, the intention is that mfd knows what's available, passes a list, list includes URL like file://a_video.nuv
14:58thor_ or, mdcap://some_other_box/a_video.nuv
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14:58thor_ but that is still back on enveloppe thinking
14:59thor_ err, back of
14:59Chutt but then it has to negotiate somehow to turn off audio playback, etc
14:59thor_ yes, but that's trivial
14:59Chutt i'm just having trouble understanding what the line between the local client + mfd is
14:59Chutt really think it should all just be one thing
14:59thor_ heh, quite possible
14:59thor_ err, possibly
15:01Chutt heh
15:01Chutt anyway
15:02Chutt going to shut down to stick the air2pc card in this box
15:02* kvandivo grins excitedly and enjoys living vicariously through others.
15:02thor_ I'll keep plugging, do we have a position on the RSA public key issue?
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15:02thor_ oh darn
15:03kvandivo i guess that means, "do whatever you want and I'll fully support your decision"
15:03thor_ hmmm, I could run with that opinion
15:03kvandivo if you do.... you didn't hear it from me
15:03thor_ anyway, this will take me a few days
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15:15Chutt there we go
15:15Chutt air2pc in, ram upgraded slightly, new monitor all setup
15:16thor_ [15:03:16] <thor_> I'll keep plugging, do we have a position on the RSA public key issue?
15:16thor_ [15:03:22] Signoff: Chutt (Remote closed the connection)
15:16Chutt heh
15:16Chutt uh, i dunno
15:17Chutt if it's just the public key
15:17thor_ it could actually just be a runtime load of a text file
15:17Chutt that works
15:17thor_ it's a publix key, but it was hexedit'd out of iTunes (ie. not published somewhere as a public key)
15:17thor_ err, public
15:18thor_ I'll go with the text file for the time being
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15:22thor_ if you're going for QAM on the Air2pc, there are some issues with channel detection
15:22rkulagow_ thor: are you reading my mind?
15:22thor_ aim to please
15:22rkulagow_ i've been pinging dopester the last few nights to ask about that.
15:23thor_ he'w got a full dump of my attempts with verbose debugging on ... said he'd try and tweak things when he gets back from PR
15:23thor_ err, he's
15:23rkulagow_ comcast channel lineup puts my QAM versions of ABC, NBC, etc on channels 189-196, so i'm not sure that channel "189" is supposed to mean.
15:24thor_ "189" on a comcast supplied box?
15:24rkulagow_ nope; it's supposed to be part of my basic lineup.
15:24Chutt your cablebox does remap things
15:25thor_ it's almost certainly below 126 in reality
15:25rkulagow_ right
15:25rkulagow_ and i don't have a cablebox.
15:26thor_ this works well on comcast here: http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=SIR-T451%2fXAA
15:31gr8nash did you guys notice the pchdtv guys lowered the price of the HD3000 to 169 same as Air2pc. it must be eating into the profiets
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15:50Chutt heh
15:50Chutt new monitor's cool, but since it's higher resolution, my bookmarks wrap in a different position
15:50Chutt now i can't find stuff
15:51thor_ CTRL-ALT-+
15:51Chutt that'd be a waste =)
15:51thor_ in and back
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16:22_GeckoFiend chutt what monitor did you get?
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16:38Chutt geckofiend, dell 2001fp
16:39kvandivo ahh.. those the ones that are $579 right now?
16:39kvandivo Dell UltraSharp 2001FP 20.1" Digital LCD $507 actually
16:40kvandivo "This is the thing to get to cause envy amongst your peers."
16:40Chutt $507
16:40Chutt works out to $540 or so with tax
16:41Chutt quite nice so far =)
16:41Chutt when i first turned it on, the backlight wasn't terribly even, but it seems to have worked itself out
16:41kvandivo any progress on the air2pc yet?
16:42Chutt no
16:42Chutt i think i need to switch to 2.6, first
16:42Chutt only thing i've done is lspci to make sure it shows up =)
16:42kvandivo so how's telecommuting working out for you? you have to 'call in' very often?
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16:43Chutt i generally have 3-4 conference calls a week
16:43kvandivo that's more than bearable..
16:44Chutt more if stuff's getting close to a deadline
16:44Chutt generally about an hour each
16:44kvandivo other than the fact that meetings/calls in general aren't the most productive of times, usually..
16:44Chutt right
16:44kvandivo having just sat through 3 hours of meetings today already, i'm feeling that..
16:44Chutt but, i can just stick the call on mute, and keep working
16:44* kvandivo grins evily.
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16:47rkulagow_ dopester: you around, or still in PR?
16:47Chutt i think i saw a 'back in the states' message from him last night
16:48rkulagow_ cool.
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16:49_GeckoFiend yeah he's back
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17:58Chutt the cvs vserver has more space in /tmp now, so things should be slightly better with it filling up
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18:08dopester yeah im back in the good ol' usa
18:08dopester just had to work cause my company is satan
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18:13GeckoFiend Satan is my motorcar
18:15GeckoFiend hrm... my 1.8ghz Athlon seems to handle HD pretty well, I've got a 2.5ghz Celeron and a 1.8ghz P4 laying around wondo if they'd do as well
18:16jams 2.5ghz Celeron will work alright
18:17jams at least for most don't know about 1080i
18:17GeckoFiend nothing I watch is 1080i right now anyway
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18:26rkulagow_ dopester: so i've got my Air2PC card installed, 2.6.11-rc4, qam patch (but not the DVB kernel)
18:26rkulagow_ driver installs, myth setup program sees the card, but channel scan doesn't show anything on comcast
18:26rkulagow_ i don't have an antenna connected, so azap didn't tell me much.
18:27rkulagow_ bbl
18:28dopester yeah im not surprised.. a ton of problems poped up the dya i left
18:28dopester well not problems but stuff that showed it wasn't working right
18:28dopester mostly cause of lack of documentation on us digital cable implimentations
18:29dopester azap will work for cable as well
18:29dopester jesus built my hotrod
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18:47rkulagow_ well, azap is telling me about OTA channels; it ran successfully, but Comcast channel lineup for Basic cable says my HD channels are on channels 187-192
18:47dopester those channel numbers pretty much mean nothing
18:47dopester im trying to hunt down this free "discovery hd" the guy from duke.edu said he can get here
18:47rkulagow_ ok, here's azap:
18:47rkulagow_ WPWR:695000000:8VSB:0:0
18:47rkulagow_ WSNS:659000000:8VSB:0:0
18:47rkulagow_ <snip>
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18:48dopester thats gotta be ota not cable
18:50rkulagow_ is there anything i can do? thor said he sent you some stuff. right now when i run the channel scan in mythtv they all come back as no lock
18:51rkulagow_ right; azap is reading from antennaweb, (based on my zip code), right?
18:51rkulagow_ and antennaweb only does OTA afaik
18:54rkulagow_ i also have this in /var/log/messages, which is different than what captain murdoch was showing in his.
18:54rkulagow_ nxt2002: Waiting for firmware upload...
18:54rkulagow_ nxt2002: Waiting for firmware upload(2)...
18:54rkulagow_ done.
18:54rkulagow_ he said he was using dvb-kernel. i'm not, since you said 2.6.11-rc already has everything needed. does it look kosher?
18:54rkulagow_ bbl
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19:13Chutt stupid mailman bounce processor tends to go haywire and start leaking ram like crazy
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19:27Baylink Indeed?
19:28Baylink Barry's a bud; can we nail it down for him?
19:33GeckoFiend hey chutt what model of nvidia was it that had the component out? and do you know if they make a PCI version?
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19:35Chutt the 6600 series does
19:35Chutt i dunno about the 6200s
19:36Chutt baylink, doesn't repro easily, takes down the machine when it does
19:36Chutt ie, not something i want to spend time debugging =)
19:37Chutt geckofiend, no pci versions, that i'm aware of
19:37Baylink Got it.
19:38* Baylink whispers "Link change" into the echo of the room...
19:38GeckoFiend bah
19:39Chutt geckofiend, i'd _imagine_ that if/when they ever do an integrated nforce4 w/ a geforce6, there'd be boards with component out connectors on em
19:39GeckoFiend I've got an old MB laying around and a celeron 2.5, all I need is component out on a card and I'm set
19:39GeckoFiend I could drive my LCD with it via VGA and my onboard, but I want a little more freedom when I move to HD in the living room
19:40Chutt just make sure to get a hdtv with a vga in =)
19:43GeckoFiend yeah but I REALLY want a HD wega to replace my SD wega
19:43GeckoFiend the only things I see with VGA in are the LCDs and plasmas
19:43Chutt grand wega
19:43Chutt isn't that lcd?
19:43GeckoFiend hmmmm
19:43Chutt pricey, though
19:44Chutt arg, time to get outta here
19:46dopester i got a 6600 here.. pci-e
19:50GeckoFiend brb shutting down to pull a ram chip from this box to test my new machine with
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19:55gr8nash FYI i have a MSI nvidia 6600Gt that is PCI with HD out
19:55gr8nash and the Grand wega is a LCD projection.
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20:42GeckoFiend bah hit the key combo to kill X on the wrong machine
20:47dopester hehe
20:49GeckoFiend heh the "Intel extreme graphics" on that MB can NOT deal with HDTV resolutions apparently
20:50dopester yeah i didnt even try the one built in on my new frontend and just put in a 6600
20:50dopester which im sure is overkill but the price was right
20:52GeckoFiend This is a crappy PCI only MB...
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21:26GeckoFiend waaaaaaaah someone make myth work on my POS video card.
21:27Chutt no
21:28GeckoFiend I juts think it's funny that someone starts a thread saying basicly "I have a POS card with POS drivers" and then goes to all this trouble to make it work when you can get a $40 nvidia card and be happy
21:28Chutt heh, yup
21:28Chutt i'm going through avalanche's bigass patch
21:28Chutt it's, well, big.
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21:30GeckoFiend LOL he warned you
21:32Chutt only found one thing wrong with it so far
21:32Chutt 3000 lines in
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21:35dopester guess hes got me beat :)
21:36Chutt 15k lines
21:40dopester i got discoevery hd theatre it looks like
21:40dopester just damn signal is too weak
21:40rkulagow_ hey, dopester. welcome back.
21:41Chutt i'll be setting up my air2pc soon, now
21:41Chutt do i _need_ to move to 2.6?
21:42dopester yeah
21:42dopester i bet if you futz with shit for a few months you could make 2.4 work ok
21:42Chutt yeah, not really going to do that
21:42Chutt oh well
21:42rkulagow_ dopester: get a chance to see what i posted earlier in scrollback?
21:42dopester hrmm...
21:43dopester i dunno let em scroll up :)
21:43Chutt there, 1/3 of the way through this patch
21:43rkulagow_ what i did, blah, blah, diff between me and captain murdoch's /var/log/messages (he's using dvb-kernel, i'm not)
21:43Chutt time for a big long break.
21:43dopester looks like your firmware isn't getting loaded
21:43rkulagow_ really. that sucks.
21:44dopester files probbab;y in the wrong place
21:44dopester no what sucks is trying to WORK in Puerto Rico
21:44dopester takes 4 days to get something done that in teh us would tkae 15 minutes
21:45rkulagow_ that's the beauty of man~ana time!
21:45Captain_Murdo| dopester: I think rkulagow_ is not using the dvb-kernel cvs though I believe so will his print the confirmation message "firmware upload complete" when it's loaded?
21:45dopester yeah it should print something if it makes it
21:46Captain_Murdo| it does print the done though
21:46rkulagow_ hrmm. firmware dir=/lib/firmware, and i've got a 590 byte nxt2002 firmware file in there.
21:47rkulagow_ whoops, 5908 byte
21:47dopester should go in the first time
21:47dopester is the hotplug service started?
21:55rkulagow_ gentoo doesn't use hotplug service.
21:55dopester my version does :)
21:55rkulagow_ well, when i look at /etc/init.d/hotplug, it says that it doesn't do anything.
21:55dopester hrmm..
21:56dopester mine says it does something
21:56rkulagow_ i don't see hotplug running in ps -aux either
21:56rkulagow_ # nothing here anymore. Please use the coldplug package if you really want to
21:56rkulagow_ # load modules for devices that are discovered by your kernel before init runs.
21:56rkulagow_ #
21:56dopester hrmm.. mine isn't running either hrmm..
21:57dopester man hang on a sec i tihnk my brain is still working at puerto rican speed
21:57rkulagow_ well, based on the firmware message, does it look like the card is getting the firmare?
21:57dopester naw i don't think so
21:57rkulagow_ crap.
21:58rkulagow_ did you do anything special in /etc/modules.autorun.d/kernel-2.6? i added skystar2 in there and mythtv does see the card during setup...
22:01dopester thats it man
22:01dopester let me chec my dmesg
22:04dopester its cluttered with crap
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22:29dopester hrmm.. my brian ain't working today rkulagow sorry im being no help
22:31rkulagow_ well, once the rum washes out of your system you should be good to go. no biggy.
22:32dopester actually need to replace it i think :)
22:32dopester no mojito making country.. gotta go to cuba for that :(
22:33GeckoFiend with a name like dopester I don't think it's rum that's got his brain fogged :-p
22:33dopester heh
22:34dopester i picture you licking some kinda toads there gecko
22:34mikegrb :P
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23:11abarbaccia hey guys - how easy would it be to write an add in that would let you author a DVD and burn it from a mythTV GUI
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23:17mikegrb 12
23:17mikegrb oh, he left
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23:25GreyFoxx abarba: That would depend on how good your coding skills are :)
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 22 00:00:53 2005