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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2005-03-03

---Logopened Thu Mar 03 00:00:02 2005
00:04rkulagow__ it appears that either my devel box HD just died, or the power supply is dead. i can hear the hard drive whining it's way to rotation speed, then i hear a click, then i hear it whine up again, etc.
00:04rkulagow__ bugger!
00:05dopester thats not good
00:06rkulagow__ well, that blows. i guess a 6GB quantum is going to die at some point. i don't see any obvious "born on" date codes on it.
00:07dopester thats pre smart right?
00:07rkulagow__ way before, i'm sure.
00:07rkulagow__ i'll see if i can dig up another PS
00:08dopester i setup a box just to do backups to with rsync.. sounds like ya might want to do that sometime as well :)
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00:11rkulagow__ well, it's a throwaway box. it's just gentoo + the Air2PC, so no big loss
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00:12dopester still easier to rsync root back on a new drive and be ready to go :)
00:12rkulagow__ yeah, you're right.
00:13dopester i had a spare 250 left over from my software raid crashing (both 250s went while i was gone for christmas) so i needed to put it to use
00:13dopester got a duron from a buddy and had the rest laying around
00:14rkulagow__ well, this is a p3/733, so it takes forever to compile anything.
00:14rkulagow__ ok, i swapped the PS, and it seems to be working again.
00:14dopester i had to retire a p2-300 for that reason :)
00:19rkulagow__ so, what's the final word on path to frontend.h?
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05:54PWD hi all
05:55PWD anyone awake?
05:57tstm Sure.
05:57PWD whoohoo :-)
05:58PWD when i use mythtv how will the video be displayed on the tv-screen? By vga-card or by tv-card?
05:59tstm By the VGA-card. But this is the MythTV developement channel. For questions like that, join #mythtv-users.
06:00PWD sorry, won't happen again
06:01PWD bye bye, keep up the good work
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06:03mtjs instead of making a #mythtv-develop channel for developers and this channel for users ...
06:04mtjs no... doing like there are more developers than users...
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06:04mtjs and make the most convinient name for the users channel .... one souly for developers.
06:04GeckoFiend how about people just learn to read?
06:16oc GeckoFiend, whoaw, cool down, that's way to much to ask..
06:17tstm I think mtjs has a point.. I think developers should rather prove to be the smarter of the two and anticipate something like this.. and thus form a mythtv developement channel with a more inner circle name.
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06:17--- User: *** oc is now known as o_cee
06:22o_cee wth: "This is Simon's rather grumpy autoresponder speaking." from a mail to -dev
06:22mtjs GeckoFiend: what about just USER FRIENDLYNESS.
06:23mtjs mythtv is a VERY NICE product, but the word is that the developers are a bunch of morons that will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes...
06:23mtjs note : not ALL developers
06:25o_cee mtjs, if you'd spend time in here you'd realise how many morons come in here bitching about stuff they know nothing about.
06:25o_cee and no, mythtv is not a product, don't forget that.
06:26mtjs o_cee: i understand all of that, so why don't make it #mythtv-developers and hide from those bitchers
06:27mtjs o_cee: if not a product, what is it ?
06:27o_cee mtjs, heh, i created #mythtv-users to get rid if them in the first place.
06:28mtjs o_cee: now you have to send them away every time...
06:28o_cee because people are to stupid to read, yes.
06:28mtjs I see more users come here and sent to #mythtv-users than discussions
06:28o_cee right
06:28mtjs o_cee: ppl are ppl... and users are stupid... so make it easy for your users.
06:28mtjs user friendlyness
06:29o_cee well why don't you start a #mythtv users channel on some other network then?
06:29mtjs coz that would be redicious
06:29o_cee just because someone wants to build a highway where your house lies, would you move your house?
06:30o_cee anyway.
06:30mtjs o_cee: i see no highway and I see no house... I see users come here and sent to mythtv-users
06:31mtjs and I still think mythtv is a great product :)
06:31o_cee so hand me my money.
06:32mtjs o_cee: how would you call it then ?
06:32mtjs a ... program ?
06:32mtjs o_cee: I'll sent you money if you change the channels
06:33o_cee it's right there on the first page of mythtv.org
06:33mtjs crap a project :DDD
06:34mtjs i stand corrected
06:34mtjs o_cee: how much money to change the irc channels ?
06:35o_cee ask Chutt, you'd probably need to buy him hmm.. a private jumbojet or soemthing.
06:36mtjs :D
06:38mtjs I have a matchbox private jumbojet, will that do ?
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06:44mtjs the entry in the documentation about irc is funny :)))
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10:46@Chutt heh
10:48o_cee heh? :)
10:49mikegrb heh.
10:49o_cee btw, is it possible to get the mpeg sub-frames (or whatever they're called) via nuppel or you can only get full complete frames?
10:50@Chutt subframes?
10:50o_cee can't remember what they're called, the frames that only shows the difference in movement..
10:51o_cee in between the keyframes?
10:51@Chutt B frames?
10:51@Chutt kinda need to be able to get them to display things
10:52o_cee yeah so it's possible to grab them just as they are, they aren't merged in some way before leaving the decoder?
10:52@Chutt they are
10:52@Chutt you can't really decode them properly without previous frames
10:52o_cee is it possible to grab them just ast they are?
10:52@Chutt sure
10:52@Chutt it's just data
10:53o_cee the idea would be to use them to _remove_ moving parts of the video to remove as much moving background as possible when doing logo detection.. just an idea i had
10:53o_cee dunno if it'd work or not
10:54@Chutt oh, well, you can find moving stuff easily.
10:54@Chutt and unless logos aren't in the corners anymore, i don't think it'd help that much :p
10:55@Chutt and just looking for stuff moving wouldn't really detech transparent logos, i wouldn't think
10:55o_cee yeah true, just thought it would be a fast and easy way.. yeah dunno how much movementtt is going on up there
10:55@Chutt detect, too
10:56o_cee want to try to look at how much difference there is in an area over a period of time to see if i could detect the logo that way, where there is little or none difference is the logo..
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10:58o_cee Chutt, you know if chanlogos in svg-format would work? does qt handle that?
10:59@Chutt dunno
10:59o_cee will need to try.. got most logos in eps, so should be able to convert.. maybe.. :)
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11:12hadeees Chutt, hey did you talk to these guys? (http://www.sfbg.com/39/22/cover_fcc.html)
11:12@Chutt no, i didn't talk to her
11:12@Chutt all those quotes are completely made up
11:13Baylink You're kidding, of course.
11:13@Chutt of course
11:13Baylink Nice piece, I thought. Course, given her job, *of course* she got the spin right. Hope the piece gets some clearance.
11:13Dibblah Got the spin right? You're kidding?
11:14Baylink You didn't like it?
11:14Baylink "building tv's" was, admittedly, just a bit of a stretch, but...
11:14Dibblah ALL I WANT is to make a high-definition copy of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, save it on a DVD, and loan it to my friend
11:14@Chutt what's wrong with that?
11:14Dibblah Dumb.
11:14Baylink What's wrong with that?
11:14Baylink (great minds :-)
11:14@Chutt that's the entire essense of fair use :p
11:14Dibblah Loan it to a friend?
11:14Baylink Yup.
11:14Baylink Perfectly legal
11:14Dibblah Fair use covers that?
11:15@Chutt of course
11:15Dibblah Wow.
11:15Baylink Just like loaning a copyrighted book or CD
11:15Baylink As long as *you don't have a copy* while it's on loan.
11:15@Chutt you can have people besides yourself over to watch movies too!
11:15Dibblah Which, of course, you do.
11:15Baylink Now you understand why we fight such an uphill battle?
11:15Baylink "*burn it onto a DVD* and loan it to a friend"... Oh. I see his point.
11:16Baylink Ok, it gets a little gray there.
11:16@Chutt naw
11:16@Chutt it's still fine
11:16Dibblah Doesn't apply in the UK anyway. We have no fair use rights.
11:16hadeees Dibblah, so its all illegal or is it legal?
11:18Dibblah I'm not a lawyer. I'm also not in the US.
11:18Dibblah In the UK, it's all illegal.
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11:19Dibblah Well, with music at least.
11:20Dibblah If you trust google answers... http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=434043
11:21Dibblah Hmmm... That's interesting. We DO have an equivalent exemption.
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11:39Dibblah I don't see how fair use would fly when giving your copy to others.
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11:49fith Just to complicate things even more, in canada you can loan a CD to someone and they can make a copy (fair use), and give back the original to you. But you can't make a copy for a friend.
11:49* fith smacks the nearest IP lawyer... twice.
11:53GreyFoxx hehe
12:09* Beirdo waits for cyberestore to get his two air2pc cards in
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12:13GreyFoxx You should ship me one for a week :P
12:14GreyFoxx Ipicked up a 5" LCD screen last night for $14 which can easilybe convertedto take VGA inputs :)
12:15GreyFoxx I'm making a control console for my HT room. I'll setup buttons to dim the lights, audio, and arrow keys to manuveour myth with the screen being a clone of my video card output to the projector
12:16hadeees GreyFoxx, is it touch screen or one of the Playstation screens?
12:17GreyFoxx hadees one of the playstation ones. The Lilliput screens and other touch screens are way too expensive. And when I found a unopened playstation screen kit for $14 CDN I snagged it
12:17hadeees GreyFoxx, you making a second screen to display controls for mythtv?
12:17GreyFoxx I'll be using buttons for navigation
12:17hadeees GreyFoxx, thats exactly what i want to do
12:17GreyFoxx It's going to mirror the x output
12:17hadeees oh just mirror
12:17hadeees you should make it distinct
12:18GreyFoxx with arrow+select buttons and buttons to control my dimmers and audio mute+/-
12:18hadeees you can show alot more stuff there
12:18GreyFoxx That would be easy to do
12:18GreyFoxx Mirror myth to one screen, and a different virtual screen running a second app to control stuff which I hit a button to flip too
12:18hadeees GreyFoxx, showing the buttons would be but giving feed back like the lcd screen does would require extra code
12:19hadeees GreyFoxx, you don't even need that, mythfrontend with xinerama
12:19GreyFoxx hadeees: I'm aware of thaty :)
12:19hadeees GreyFoxx, why would you have a second control app then?
12:19GreyFoxx For non myth stuff?
12:20hadeees GreyFoxx, i guess but you can still control them from myth if you write it well
12:20GreyFoxx This is a HT room control box, not just a mirror of the myth screen
12:21Beirdo GreyFoxx: I might ship you my WinTV-D for a week :)
12:21Beirdo but that won't help you
12:21GreyFoxx Controls for heat, window covers, masking systyem for the projector, dimmer, and finally audio mute + volume control
12:21GreyFoxx Beirdo: heh
12:22GreyFoxx hadeees: I want my controls to be independant of myth.
12:23GreyFoxx I need to start drawing out button arrangements and the box shapes soon
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12:40fireshade80 Question V5A10 'tankkiller' knoppmyth user here.. pvr350 tv-out setup.. calling modprobe ivtv-fb forces the console to lock and funky garbage on the tv.. /dev/fb0 gets consumed, I'm assuming a conflict with vesafb, but vga=normal doesn't correct the problem.. any way to force ivtv-fb to use /dev/fb1 instead?
12:41@Chutt load another fb driver first
12:41@Chutt then, maybe read the topic =)
12:42fireshade80 whoops... sorry
12:42fireshade80 I tried to set vga=761 ( or ASK ) and pick a vesa mode at startup, but the same lock occurs when calling ivtv-fb
12:43fireshade80 The root console gets all screwy looking, garbage on the tv
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12:44@Chutt you have to load the other fb first
12:44@Chutt if that happens, ivtv-fb won't use it.
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12:44hadeees GreyFoxx, i can kind of see why you would want them seprate but using mythtv for a frontend for your controlls doesn't seem like that bad an idea, then mythv would be your convergence box
12:45fireshade80 How do I "load" another fb? I thought calling a vesa mode from console would do that
12:45@Chutt no.
12:45@Chutt same way you're loading ivtv-fb
12:46fireshade80 with a modprobe line? Can you give me an example of a module to call? ( fb )
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12:46@Chutt nope
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12:48GreyFoxx hadeees: I do not want to have to navigate myth for mostof the stuff I want to control. having OSD controls to control someof itis a possibility, but I want the controls to be as independant of the visual display in mostcases. Anything I want echoed the screen I'll use mythtvosd to send OSD updates
12:48GreyFoxx But I do see your point though
12:48hadeees Chutt, i am kind of curious about your views on if Mythtv can make the transition to HDTV with all the new stuff going on that seems to get in the way, i mean i know there are cards out there already for hdtv but they won't be legal for long and that still doesn't give you access to cable
12:49GreyFoxx and damn that lack of spacing and punctuation looked horrible :)
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12:50hadeees GreyFoxx, how about making something for mythtv that lets people write buttons for other apps to be execuded?
12:50GreyFoxx Are you referring to "virtual" on screen buttons? Or physical buttons?
12:51hadeees i mean that kind of how dvd playing works but something alittle more integrated so there is constant communication
12:51hadeees virtual
12:51GreyFoxx I've been referring to physical buttons I'm putting in this thing :)
12:51hadeees ah, so the screen will display via mythtv?
12:52hadeees GreyFoxx, i was thinking about trying to get one of the screens you have into a box like this, http://www.atechfabrication.com/products/touchscreen_display.htm
12:53GreyFoxx Lets backup and I'll describe again. Myth is up and running and display via dvi to my projector, a "copy/clone" of said display with be connected via VGA to my little 5" screen in this control box. I will have a limited set of controls in this box that will cause events to occur in myth. Be it arrow navigation or select
12:53hadeees although thats a touch screen, however its only $300
12:54GreyFoxx so I can navigate myth without turning on the projector,plus flip to an alternate screen to use a control app I will write to control x10 and IR based devices within the room
12:54hadeees GreyFoxx, hehe i got that part, i want to do that same thing but something better then just a clone of the display on the tv
12:54hadeees GreyFoxx, i got you, but the second screen should not display TV or games or dvd etc
12:54hadeees otherwise i think it would look alittle strange
12:55GreyFoxx The second screen will display whatever I want it to :)
12:55hadeees GreyFoxx, mind you i am not telling what to do, just want i want
12:55GreyFoxx Which will likelybe a menu of controls for various items in the room
12:55GreyFoxx This second screen with have absolutely 0 to do with the myth screen still running over the projector
12:56hadeees GreyFoxx, thats what i want but i also want mythtv to display cool things on the second screen, like mabey a tv guide browser, weather, music viz
12:56GreyFoxx and maybe I'll set that second screen to auto flip through some photos like a automated picture frame during idle times if its being displayed
12:57GreyFoxx hadeees: Then break out vim and gcc son, and getcoding :)
12:57hadeees GreyFoxx, i am so rusty at C and C++, i have been trying
12:57hadeees i am a java coder though, java, php, perl etc
12:58hadeees GreyFoxx, the worst part about it is that i really could do coding i just need to get ramped up on mythtv stuff and I suck at learning via reading code
13:00GreyFoxx Hrm, the more I think about the more I like having alternate screens. screen0 = clone of myth output, screen = room controls with a rotating image/photo during idle times , screen 3 = whatever else I can think of I want on there.
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13:17hadeees GreyFoxx, you should keep it simple, one screen but you can change what it shows
13:18hadeees on the avs forum i saw a guy to put touch screens in his wall, it looks really intresting but i belive was using windowx
13:18hadeees s
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13:22GreyFoxx I'm not too worried about simple. I'll be the almost sole user of it :)
13:23GreyFoxx Even if I just keep it to 3 screens. 1 myth, 1 control app, and 1 photo gallery
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16:16cursor oops :-)
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16:34FatDarrel GreyFoxx: why do you call yourself GreyFoxx is it somethign out of Metal Gear Solid ?
16:34kvandivo is that the pot calling the kettle black?
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16:52mikegrb kvandivo: nah, FatDarrel is a fat guy named darrel
16:54FatDarrel sandwhich
16:54FatDarrel search for it
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20:39darkfrog I think I may have found a bug in MythTV or at least a problem with my setup as it is. For some reason the "External Channel Change" command refuses to execute the script I tell it to. The script works fine outside of Myth but never executes inside.
20:39darkfrog How can I verify the authenticity of this bug before submitting it?
20:40cmorgan how are you running the external program?
20:40cmorgan who owns it?
20:40darkfrog cmorgan, I can execute it as my 'mythtv' user from Terminal and that is the same user that is running both front and backends
20:41cmorgan darkfrog: are you giving it the correct path to your file? the full path?
20:42cmorgan mythtv should verify if the file exists and if it is executable after the user puts it in
20:42cmorgan might be a good patch
20:44darkfrog yeah
20:44darkfrog cmorgan, the script was owned by root and I changed it to my mythtv user and rebooted to see if that fixes it.
20:44cmorgan dude
20:44cmorgan there is no need to reboot, ever
20:44cmorgan well, not ever
20:45cmorgan but certainly not after changing permissions
20:45darkfrog cmorgan, but why would I be able to execute the script as user "mythtv" in terminal though if that is causing Myth to not be able to execute it?
20:45cmorgan no idea
20:45cmorgan but i can imagine that your path may not be correct
20:45darkfrog cmorgan, hehe, well the tutorial I was reading said to reboot after you change anything in mythtvsetup, so I was just following what I was told. ;)
20:47cmorgan really?
20:47cmorgan thats nuts
20:48cmorgan Chutt: you think a patch to verify the script would be worthwhile?
20:52darkfrog cmorgan, now it's really wierd - I send something like "222" and only one 2 makes it (sometimes). But I can pass 222 at command-line and it works exactly as it should. If I do 34 or something it doesn't even try.
20:52cmorgan which script are you runningZ?
20:53darkfrog "/usr/local/bin/change_chan.sh" from www.lircsetup.com
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20:54cmorgan hmm
20:54cmorgan how are you sending 222? by pressing 222 on the keyboard and seeing myth trying to go to chan 222?
20:55darkfrog cmorgan, the tutorial says this seems to be a common problem almost explicitly for Dish Network users but the writer doesn't know how to fix it.
20:55cmorgan ahh
20:55cmorgan its pretty easy
20:55darkfrog cmorgan, on my remote - myth shows that it is going to the channel but the actual channel either doesn't change or changes to a channel it shouldn't.
20:55cmorgan yeah
20:55cmorgan how long is your sleep duration in the channel change script?
20:56cmorgan and are you using the JVC_RAW controller?
20:56darkfrog cmorgan, 0.4
20:56darkfrog cmorgan, no, the 3100
20:57cmorgan make the delay 1 second
20:57cmorgan and see if that fixes it
20:57darkfrog okay, but why would it work correctly at command-line but not in Myth?
20:57darkfrog what do I need to restart after I make that change?
20:57darkfrog or do I?
20:58cmorgan you don't have to restart
20:58cmorgan just change it and try it again
20:59darkfrog it's not changing anything now.
21:00cmorgan you didn't change the owner of the script by editing it?
21:00cmorgan put it back and see that it works again and then split the difference and see if that works
21:02darkfrog cmorgan, no, in fact I can change it to 0.2 and it still works fine at command-line.
21:02darkfrog cmorgan, I wrote a script to just write the date to a log file when it's executed to verify that mythtv was working and it didn't even call it...
21:02darkfrog actually, now that I changed the owner I should check that again.
21:06darkfrog I just ran mythbackend and mythfrontend as root and it didn't make any difference, so that should rule out permissions
21:06darkfrog the log says that the external script ran and exited without error, but there's no way it's actually running.
21:07cmorgan for your program put 'sh /full/path/here' and see if that works
21:09darkfrog cmorgan, okay - the myth box is in the living room and I'm in my office to get online (somehow my internet connection on the mythbox is down because I accidentally removed some packages that were necessary). :)
21:09darkfrog ...that's why there is such a long delay. ;)
21:09cmorgan ahh
21:09cmorgan you should fix your net connection so you can test more easily :-)
21:14darkfrog hehe, I don't know how. :o I have a friend going to call me tonight to help me fix it.
21:14darkfrog (just a linux noob muddling my way through to enlightenment)
21:15darkfrog cmorgan, no that didn't work either - still giving the same problem
21:15cmorgan hmm
21:15darkfrog cmorgan, it's wierd though because I can type "200" and it does get a "0", but that's all
21:15darkfrog ...and only sometimes
21:15darkfrog cmorgan, no matter what else I type it doesn't work.
21:15darkfrog cmorgan, command-line the script works perfectly though.
21:16cmorgan very odd man
21:17darkfrog I know...I just don't understand it
21:17darkfrog it must be something wrong with myth
21:20cmorgan sorry i can't help, maybe someone in #mythtv-users can help though
21:20darkfrog cmorgan, I couldn't get anyone to even say anything in there earlier.
21:21darkfrog cmorgan, it's cool though, I know this room isn't for configuration fixing
21:21darkfrog cmorgan, I believe it's a MythTV bug though (but what do I know) :)
21:39darkfrog cmorgan, dude, I figured it out!
21:39darkfrog cmorgan, it is a bug...sort of. :)
21:41cmorgan ha
21:41cmorgan explain?
21:41darkfrog cmorgan, it's a problem with process priority - if I "renice -15" the process then it works perfect!
21:41cmorgan uh
21:41cmorgan that seems very very odd
21:41darkfrog cmorgan, myth is causing delays to occur to the command isn't sent real-time
21:42darkfrog cmorgan, I found another web site that explains how to configure an IR Blaster and it mentions this as a possible problem for missing digits, but mine is causing it to miss all of them nearly all the time.
21:43darkfrog cmorgan, I believe this also explains why it's a Dish Network only problem! Dish must require the sequences to come repetitively within a very short amount of time or it disregards it as garbage.
21:44cmorgan oh
21:44cmorgan so maybe it is an lircd issue then
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21:48darkfrog actually, I guess it does make sense, but because mythfrontend is running at the same time, myth processes are interfering with it.
21:56cmorgan what kind of ir blaster are you using?
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21:59darkfrog cmorgan, irblaster.info
22:00cmorgan hmm
22:00cmorgan i've got a serial port home made one and it never seems to have trouble
22:00cmorgan 2.6.3 kernel, 0.7 series lircd i think
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22:04darkfrog cmorgan, same with mine - what receiver?
22:04cmorgan dish networks one
22:05cmorgan so i'm surprised you aren't using the jvc_raw one
22:05darkfrog cmorgan, the 301?
22:05cmorgan uh
22:05cmorgan its black, maybe an inch thick
22:06darkfrog cmorgan, does it say 301 on the front left?
22:06cmorgan no idea man
22:06darkfrog hehe
22:06cmorgan its nothing fancy
22:06darkfrog cmorgan, I think we've got different models
22:06cmorgan i don't recall any letters on it
22:07darkfrog cmorgan, don't suppose you know how to set LIRCD to start up niced to 15? The only way I've been able to make it work so far is by "renice -15 PID" after startup.
22:08cmorgan how do you normally start it up?
22:08darkfrog it's a service
22:08darkfrog oh wait...no it's not
22:08cmorgan so its in /etc/init.d/ ?
22:08darkfrog I killed the service - I think I know how to fix it... nm :o
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23:01fatmatt heyas
23:03fatmatt got a quick question about how the mythtv database works in regard to digital tuners. found a post on the list that said dvb_channel and dvb_pids aren't used anymore
23:07dopester then ask
23:07dopester might be a -users question though
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23:13fatmatt how is the information in the channel table linked to the dtv_multiplex table. I'm getting no pid errors but I've run mythtv-setup over and over and the channels and dvt_multiplex tables fill up but still the error.
23:18bobc I've just tried twice to compile the latest cvs and gotten the following error:customrecord.cpp: In member function `bool CustomRecord::checkSyntax()':
23:18bobc customrecord.cpp:292: no matching function for call to `MSqlQuery::executedQuery()'
23:18bobc make[2]: *** [customrecord.o] Error 1
23:18bobc any ideas or is it -users question?
23:18bobc could it be a qt3.1 problem?
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23:20@Chutt yes
23:20bobc thanks
23:21@Chutt (to the qt3.1 thing)
23:21bobc that's what I figured
23:25@Chutt i'll have that fixed in a sec.
23:27@Chutt there, that error's gone now.
23:28bobc thanks! damn your good!
23:29dopester chutts on top of things :)
23:29@Chutt aside from applying patches
23:29bobc someday I'll have to bite the bullet and upgrade qt though
23:29@Chutt it's probably a good idea :p
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---Logclosed Fri Mar 04 00:00:31 2005