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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2007-02-06

---Logopened Tue Feb 06 00:00:05 2007
00:13<Chutt>Captain_Murdoch, i don't really like that asyncdb patch.
00:13<Captain_Murdoch>ok, any suggestions?
00:13<Chutt>mainly just because the backend has enough threads running and sitting around doing absolutely nothing.
00:13<Captain_Murdoch>I thought I asked on here the other day, but guess no one was around. :) I'm all ears. I think this has been causing me issues as well so I'd like to do something to get a fix in.
00:14<Captain_Murdoch>this is just 1 thread
00:14<Chutt>that will always be running
00:14<Chutt>and doing nothing most of the time :p
00:14<Captain_Murdoch>yeah. do you think it would be better to spin one up to handle the query and let it die?
00:14<Chutt>the backend uses enough ram :(
00:15<Chutt>no, it'd be better to fix the problem, not throw another thread at it.
00:15<Captain_Murdoch>but we really shouldn't be doing DB updates in the main thread that captures data.
00:15<Chutt>it worked until the latest version of ivtv.
00:16<Chutt>anyway, the main recorder thread could easily do the db updates
00:16<Captain_Murdoch>what about things like NVR? it could have the same issue if a DB write is delayed.
00:16<Chutt>you could have the same issue if you wrote a lot of other data to disk, too.
00:16<Chutt>would interfere with the writes
00:17<Captain_Murdoch>this isn't interfering with writes though, it's interfering with captures.
00:17<Captain_Murdoch>writes are buffered
00:17<Chutt>not infinitely :p
00:17<Captain_Murdoch>well, longer than 1/30 of a second. :)
00:17<Captain_Murdoch>1/29.97. :)
00:17<Chutt>ivtv captures used to be buffered for ~30 seconds
00:17<Chutt>by the driver
00:18<Chutt>well, unless someone played with the driver options
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00:19<Captain_Murdoch>so the driver would use 20-30 MB of kernel memory? sounds like a bad thing. anyway. like I said, I'm all ears. by "main recorder thread", which thread do you mean?
00:19<Chutt>tv_rec
00:20<Chutt>and i wouldn't modify programinfo like it has been - that patch is a crash in waiting outside of mythbackend, if someone uses those functions
00:20<Captain_Murdoch>ok, was thinking inside the *recorder.cpp files.
00:20<Chutt>tv_rec's sitting there mostly idle
00:20<Captain_Murdoch>ok, so no async. tv_rec just grabs the delta and size occasionally and updates the DB.
00:20<Chutt>yup
00:20<Captain_Murdoch>easy enough.
00:21<Chutt>but it'd be best to make the scheduler not lock those particular tables =)
00:21<Captain_Murdoch>Bruce and David are working on that I believe. we've talked about it some off-list.
00:21<Chutt>ok
00:21<Chutt>cool.
00:21<Captain_Murdoch>I think xris was in on parts of the thread also. they're discussing the whole duplicate checking thing now.
00:22<Chutt>the only thing with doing it in the tv_rec thread is that it's slightly easier to lose a db update (like in say, livetv)
00:23<Captain_Murdoch>well, if I leave the data in the delta map until it's written then if we miss one, we catch up later. *recorder produces, tv_rec consumes.
00:23<Chutt>tv_rec switches recorders.. =)
00:23<Chutt>hrm
00:23<Chutt>and if the scheduler's interfering there as well
00:24<Chutt>might still bork a recording
00:27<Chutt>i dunno
00:27<Captain_Murdoch>if a recorder is finished recording, it can write out the rest of the data itself.
00:27<Chutt>yeah, but if tv_rec needs to be answerin some other request, it probably shouldn't be stuck waiting on the scheduler.
00:27<Chutt>maybe just use something like the asyncdb stuff temporarily :/
00:27<Captain_Murdoch>oh, you meant that. gotcha.
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00:28<Chutt>every new thread the backend adds means a lot more ram usage, is all
00:28<Captain_Murdoch>understand perfectly.
00:28<Captain_Murdoch>I posted a message and took down my modified patch. I'll think about it some more.
00:29<Chutt>and we can't really break those functions for non-backend code =)
00:30<Captain_Murdoch>yeah, only thing is the filesize one and I thought about making it check if (gAsyncDB != NULL) then do the async version, else query->exec();
00:30<Captain_Murdoch>transcoder might use the delta one also, hadn't tested that yet.
00:30<Captain_Murdoch>since it uses NVR.
00:31<Chutt>shouldn't matter, though =)
00:31<Chutt>can't really have functions in an interface that will crash if called
00:31<Captain_Murdoch>right, the if (gAsyncDB != NULL) then gAsyncDB->AddQuery(query) else query->exec() would solve that.
00:32<Chutt>and delete query in the non case =)
00:32<Captain_Murdoch>then just delete the querey if were not async because the async would delete it if we're async
00:32<Captain_Murdoch>yeah. was typing that. :)
00:32<Chutt>ok, i'm fine with that short-term
00:32<Chutt>but i'd like to reduce the number of running threads sometime.
00:33<Captain_Murdoch>I'll try to figure out a better solution. I wasn't sure if you had an opinion or not since I mentioned it the other day, but you weren't around at the time I guess. no biggie.
00:33<Chutt>yeah, sorry
00:33<Chutt>busy here
00:33<Captain_Murdoch>I have had glitches at the beginnings of some of my recordings that I think I can attribute to this issue.
00:33<Chutt>i've never seen it
00:33<Captain_Murdoch>you have any HD cards?
00:33<Chutt>and i have 3 recordings starting simultaneously all the time
00:34<Chutt>naw
00:36<Captain_Murdoch>seems to be more on those than ivtv. I thought it was antenna positioning at first, but then it would be fine on later recordings. I'm not 100% sure this is it, but I know that the tables can be locked after that select/update test I did.
00:36<Chutt>'anonymous' in this case is 'GuyPaddock'
00:37<Captain_Murdoch>anyway, need to head to bed, have to be up early unfortunately. I'll think about it over the next couple days.
00:37<Chutt>btw
00:37<Captain_Murdoch>:) yeah, just figured I'd reply to that. he was commenting but evidenlty hadn't been reading the mailing lists seeing that we had been talking about that ticket just a week ago.
00:37<Captain_Murdoch>sometimes I should hold my tongue late at night. :)
00:39<Chutt>eh, it deserved a reply
00:39<Chutt>anyway, 'night =)
00:47[~]Captain_Murdoch didn't go quite yet.
00:47<Captain_Murdoch>nevermind, I'm gone... was looking at something, but decided to forget it for now. :)
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05:00<Snow-Man>erm, why stick a 2M database into svn?
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09:56<onixian>hi all
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10:17<Cardoe>replex/ringbuffer.c:437: warning: format '%llu' expects type 'long long unsigned int', but argument 3 has type 'uint64_t'
10:17<Cardoe>gag... bad code...
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10:32<gbee>heh - silly compiler
10:35[~]stuarta wonders if gbee regrets committing the 'A & An' patch
10:37<gbee>no regrets, I'm just washing my hands of it
10:37<stuarta>oh dear...
10:37<gbee>It's always ignored 'A' - I didn't add that bit
10:38<gbee>if it ignores 'A' then it's logical it does the same for 'An' - which is why I've no regrets, IMHO it just fixes what could be considered a bug
10:39<gbee>whether the feature as a whole is worthwhile or whether it should be done differently, I'll let someone else decide
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11:00<ASiDiE>I hope I am not out of line here.. but I am wondering if anyone is using mytv with dishnetworks and is it able to pull down the guide from the sat? I am working with a friend to understand how this differs from regular DVB guides... can anyone confirm this?
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11:01<ASiDiE>I am wondering if this feature is currently in mythtv.. or one of the latest svn builds.
11:02<stuarta>it's already in mythtv
11:02<ASiDiE>sweet... I will download the code and take a look at it....
11:07<ASiDiE>anyone here one of the developers... of myth?
11:08<stuarta>a few
11:08<ASiDiE>what are you thoughts on moving some of the code over to C#? hard to do?
11:09<stuarta>not going to happen
11:11<ASiDiE>what about looking at the code.. to understand how it works.. and then writing original code in C#.... is there any type of coversion there?
11:11<GreyFoxx>Ummm... What ?
11:11<stuarta>where the linux C# compiler?
11:11<stuarta>i/is
11:11<ASiDiE>haha sorry guys.. i know very little about this stuff.. just trying to help a friend out
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11:56<jul>hi. Im use a trackball mouse for my HTPC. Mouse support is working in menus, but not in the music player. Known bug =
11:56<jul>?
12:04<mikegrb_>check the topic
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14:08<MrGandalf>is anyone seeing odd behavior when switching channels between tuners? Specifically with the -vid branch?
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14:14<janneg>the only odd behaviour I'm aware off is that you can't switch directly to the channel the other card is tuned to after changing the card
14:14<janneg>mythtv thinks it is already tuned to that channel
14:16<MrGandalf>I'm seeing a case where the first 1-2 tunes to a different tuner after the backend starts tune to the channel selected, after that it always tunes cardinput.startchan
14:16<MrGandalf>only on a tuner change
14:17<MrGandalf>trying to figure out how the frontend communicates the selected channel to the backend.. I see a SPAWN_LIVETV but that doesn't indicated the requested channel. CHANGE_CHANNEL only shows up if you're on the same tuner and/or backend
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14:35<_mike3_>hey guys... I got MythTV all setup and done, but I was wondeirng how can I watch TV from another computer? I've setup the database to accept connections on my local subnetk, but which software can I use just as a frontend to connect under liux?
14:35<GreyFoxx>Wrong channel
14:38<gbee>meh, this music_directories table is proving more trouble than I thought it would
14:38<eskil>gbee, but hopefully worth it.
14:39<_mike3_>always do that
14:39<gbee>figured I'd eventually have to refactor the scanning code, but I'm forced to do it now or just make scanning worse instead of better
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14:41<gbee>I had hoped to keep the individual changes small and managable - means I can commit more frequently without breaking anything
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14:46<gbee>bah, I'll just get on with it - splitting the scanning code out into it's own class would be a start
14:49<Chutt>feel free to break stuff
14:52<MrGandalf>is it safe to clear the tvchain table?
14:52<Chutt>when no live-tv is going on.
14:52<MrGandalf>k, thanks
14:53<MrGandalf>over 6500 rows..
14:53<gbee>Chutt: thanks :)
14:54<gbee>eep, is there any cleanup being done?
14:54<Chutt>should be getting done on exit
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14:55<gbee>mines 230 rows (rarely use livetv)
14:55<Chutt>it's in the TV destructor.
14:55<gbee>seems to date back as far as 2005
14:56<GreyFoxx>Hmmm 37 in mine
14:56<GreyFoxx>and I never watch LiveTV so it must be every channel change I've done since livetv moved to use it :)
14:57<gbee>LiveTVChain::DestroyChain and LiveTVChain::DeleteProgram
14:57<gbee>grep'ing for DELETE FROM tvchain
14:57<Chutt>DestroyChain's in the TV destructor.
14:58<gbee>right
14:59<gbee>guess they may be left over from crashes
15:00<GreyFoxx>should mythbackend clear any that refer to it on startup ?
15:01<MrGandalf>they are getting destroyed.. but only if myth exits livetv gracefully..
15:01<gbee>any particular reason why it's done by chanid?
15:02<gbee>that wouldn't seem to prevent deleting a tvchain in use by another tuner (or does it?), yet it means that orphaned records are left around
15:03<Chutt>chainid
15:03<gbee>heh, misread that
15:04<gbee>makes more sense
15:04<Snow-Man>xris: hey
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15:07<gbee>could stick something in the housekeeper to clear chains from the table which are older than X days
15:08<MrGandalf>ok, the tvchain entry gets created by the frontend, correct?
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15:27<Chutt>can i write a semi-nasty email to the openmedia ltd guy?
15:27<Chutt>it's bad enough when his 'support' people just ask the dev list for stuff
15:33<Snow-Man>heh
15:33<janneg>I think something like "have you considered writing it yourself if your costumers demand it" is appropiate
15:34<Snow-Man>That would have worked better had it been before someone offered to help. :)
15:35<kvandivo>oh, i don't know.. that seems like an appropos response regardless
15:36<Chutt>there, responded :p
15:36<janneg>it's probably to friendly
15:37<kvandivo>ya.. when they are brazen enough to say: Our customers want this. When are you going to do it for us? that might call for a rather curt reply
15:37<xris>Snow-Man: ??
15:37<Snow-Man>xris: services.mythtv.org is created
15:41<Snow-Man>xris: It's under /data/www/services.mythtv.org, inside the vserver
15:41<Snow-Man>(and then htdocs/ under that)
15:41<xris>ok.
15:41<Snow-Man>The www vserver, specifically.
15:41<xris>I'll poke at it when I get home tonight / set up an acct for myself, etc.
15:41<Snow-Man>a'ight
15:41<Snow-Man>Lemme know if you need anything.
15:42<xris>willdo
15:42<xris>actually, can you make sure that sqlite and php's sqlite bindings are installed?
15:42<xris>sqlite3, that is? though I vaguely remember you doing that already.
15:42<Snow-Man>ii libsqlite3-0 3.3.8-1 SQLite 3 shared library
15:42<Snow-Man>ii php4-sqlite3 0.4-2 PHP4 bindings to SQLite3, a file-based SQL e
15:42<Snow-Man>I think we checked it previously, yes. :)
15:42<Snow-Man>xris: And for my 2c, don't put the sqlite db in svn..
15:43<Snow-Man>:)
15:43<Snow-Man>xris: I would prefer you check with me on new packages or firewall changes or anything like that, in general.
15:43<xris>yeah, I wouldn't do that without asking. I don't trust myself all that much under debian. :)
15:43<Snow-Man>Good. ;)
15:44<xris>I don't really want the sqlite db in svn, either. it's sort of already there, but has been completely redesigned since I checked it in.
15:44<Snow-Man>Just doesn't seem like it makes any sense to do that, imv.
15:44<xris>actually, mainly just out of curiosity, is there a memcached package for debian?
15:44<xris>it'll be less important once the web services go up. at the moment, the only way to search would be to use the db directly.
15:45<Snow-Man>I think so, but I think we don't use it and instead have it installed by hand or some such.
15:45<Snow-Man>Or maybe it's called something else...
15:45<Snow-Man>Chutt: You'd probably remember...
15:45<Snow-Man>Wasn't there like a turk-somethingorother?
15:46<Chutt>i dunno
15:46<Chutt>mmcache
15:46<xris>ok, yeah, that's the other one that mediawiki supports.
15:47<Snow-Man>Chutt: How was that installed, and is it site-wide, or vhost-specific, or what?
15:47<xris>I haven't messed with it before. Last I checked, memcached was the preferred, and is the only one I have any experience with.
15:47<Snow-Man>For some reason I'm not finding any of the above where I thought it was. :)
15:47<xris>doesn't really matter, but if/once we get lots of user queries coming in, we'll probably want some sort of caching.
15:48<Snow-Man>Sure
15:49<xris>I need to find some time to actually do the updates to this stuff tonight, too.. did my taxes last night instead
15:49<Snow-Man>Well, turck-mmcache and memcache exist as Debian packages
15:49<Snow-Man>Though neither are instaled atm.
15:49<Snow-Man>+l
15:49<Chutt>eaccelerator is what's installed now
15:49<Chutt>i believe.
15:49<xris>ahh
15:50<Snow-Man>And that's not in Debian. :)
15:50<MrGandalf>oh well, maybe tomorrow..
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15:50<xris>is memcached?
15:51<Snow-Man>memcached is in Debian, yes.
15:51<Snow-Man>Version 1.1.12-1
15:53<xris>cool
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15:56<Snow-Man>Seems to be an older system, technically.
15:56<Snow-Man>Older version, that is
15:58<xris>memcached? I think they're up to 1.2 now
15:58<Snow-Man>Right, that's what I was trying to say. :)
16:03<Chutt>hey look, i write an email to the dev list, and someone bitches about it
16:03<Snow-Man>hahaha
16:04<kvandivo>and it took them a whole 5 minutes to do it
16:05<GreyFoxx>Chutt: The same guy who keeps bringing up using postgres :)
16:05<Chutt>i don't feel like replying.
16:09<janneg>I'm still wondering how a plugin should give context sensitive help
16:09<Chutt>popups on hitting F1
16:10<Chutt>all it takes is time, and the ability to write
16:13<janneg>yes, I wasn't aware that a plugin can do that (knows the context of the frontend)
16:14<janneg>I would add that directly to the frontend
16:14<Chutt>each screen handles its own keybindings
16:14<Chutt>oh
16:14<Chutt>it couldn't be a separate 'help plugin', obviously.
16:14<Chutt>need to be built in to everything.
16:16<Chutt>i tend to ignore when people say 'plugin', cuz they almost never know what they're talking about.
16:17<GreyFoxx>udev againb or something different ?
16:17<GreyFoxx>oops
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16:20<janneg>but the "Technical Director" of a company selling mythtv solutions should know it
16:21<hads>He's the "Everything"
16:22<Chutt>he usually writes as 'openmedia support'
16:22<Chutt>so 'technical director' is a big promotion.. =)
16:22<stuarta>the first is prob more accurate
16:23<hads>He's from the same country as me. I met him the other day at LCA. One thing that amuses me is that his big Openmedia sig only turns up on mythtv related lists.
16:24[~]stuarta can think why that might be ;)
16:24<Chutt>heh
16:27<Chutt>i just think if someone's making money off of us, they could at least do the trivial crap
16:28<Chutt>granted, i doubt he's making much, but, still :p
16:28<stuarta>we discussed it quite a bit at LinuxExpo
16:28<stuarta>came to the conclusion that those with the money to pay for it
16:28<stuarta>would want everything 110%
16:29<stuarta>support would be a bitch
16:29<gbee>not a job I'd envy doing, providing support for something is usually a thankless task
16:30<Snow-Man>Any moron who writes like 'usleep' should be banned from the lists anyway.
16:30<gbee>I couldn't imagine making enough money from it to warrant the stress
16:31<stuarta>no, not exactly high paying, only high stress
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19:03<MrGandalf>what is quicktune?
19:04<MrGandalf>nm
19:13[~]xris takes his hand off of the STFW buzzer
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20:30[~]Captain_Murdoch posts his one and only comment to the "Request: MythHelp" thread.
20:31[~]Captain_Murdoch then reads scrollback where others talked about the thread here during the day.
20:46<Chutt>Captain_Murdoch, thanks. =)
20:48<Captain_Murdoch>he's been annoying me for a while.
20:49[~]xris needs to find some time to actually read this apparently humorous/annoying thread
20:50<Captain_Murdoch>you have to search, not all of his requests for free features or support for his customers are in the same thread.
20:50<Snow-Man>http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-dev/2007-February/053394.html
20:50<Snow-Man>It's not very long, or interesting, really.
20:50<xris>heh
20:51<Snow-Man>That's the start of the one people have been posting in.
20:51<Captain_Murdoch>I thought about posting links to other posts like that in my reply but decided I didn't need to spend that much time on it.
20:51<xris>I was actually thinking of something like that the other day... key to bring up a list of accepted commands for the current location. would be pretty nice.
20:52<xris>not exactly what he's asking for, though
20:52<Captain_Murdoch>yeah, just low on main developers todo list since it doesn't help them much at all. :) would be nice for someone wanting to get involved though.
20:53<xris>yeah
20:54<xris>heh. could make it a SoC program. lol
20:54<xris>I know how much Chutt loved dealing with SoC in 2006. :)
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20:55<Captain_Murdoch>could have a non-user-editable wiki page of things the developers think people could work on if they want to get into coding for Myth.
20:55<xris>there's one in trac already
20:56<Captain_Murdoch>you mean the want-list?
20:56<xris>we could port it to the main wiki, though.. set it up as an "if you'd like to get into coding for mythtv"
20:56<xris>yeah
20:56<Captain_Murdoch>problem is that's what users want, not what might actually be coded or accepted into SVN. and it's user-editable.
20:58<Captain_Murdoch>I'm just thinking a sort of HOWTO for getting into Myth programming with a possible list of things that we know would get accepted if done right (like the context sensitive help throughout)
21:00<xris>no, there's a page in trac about dev-wanted stuff
21:00<Captain_Murdoch>oh, didn't know about that.
21:00<Captain_Murdoch>have to take a look sometime. :)
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21:00<xris>http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/wiki/FutureDevelopment
21:01<xris>something like that, along with the developer to contact about working on it.
21:01<xris>assuming we can lock down the main wiki in such a way that devs can edit the page but users can't.
21:01<xris>anyway, I should head home. later.
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22:25<j0lly>hello!
22:25<j0lly>Anyone know if MythTV runs on ps3?
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 07 00:00:45 2007