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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2007-02-09

---Logopened Fri Feb 09 00:00:13 2007
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02:48<gbee>stuarta: upgrading record_tmp in dbcheck isn't correct as it's not created there and may not exist at the time of the update - in fact there is no need to change anything, as it's just created as a copy of record it will always have the same columns
02:56<stuarta>yeah, saw my email earlier...
02:56<stuarta>was kinda hoping someone would say that last night :)
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03:14<gbee>was too tired to think straight, sorry ;)
03:16<stuarta>no worries. i was suspicious about it cause of _tmp
03:40<gbee>never got an answer last night to my question about MythThemedMenu - think I'm going to get sidetracked into fixing that
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04:51<Trentster>hey all, Ive got the haupauge 150 and the silver remote, watching movies no volume control etc but I can skip forward and back and pause.....do I need to change default player to xine from mplayer
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05:11<MonkeyINAbaG>bleh!
05:11<MonkeyINAbaG>mabye this channel should be #mythtv-dev or something?
05:12<janneg>no
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05:48<gbee>even if this was mythtv-dev you'd still get people in here asking mythtv-users questions
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06:47<janneg>almost 300 open tickets for milestone 0.21 and unknown :(
06:48<stuarta>could be said to be in a "state of flux"
07:06<gbee>I've been trying to close a few recently, needs a concerted effort though
07:06<gbee>many of them are pretty simple, one line patches, duplicates or minor bugs
07:07<stuarta>i just haven't had any time.
07:07<stuarta>then i found some last night.
07:07<gbee>a handful of task tickets - I've got a couple of those open
07:08<stuarta>1 down, lots more to go...
07:08<stuarta>that reminds me, need to put a note on 1 ticket, see if the series link stuff will help them out.
07:08<janneg>I'll try to close some of my tickets today
07:18<gbee>reckon if every went through the list of tickets owned by Isaac (by default), then maybe as many as 10-20% could be closed almost immediately
07:18[~]stuarta has been pushed down into 3rd place by gbee
07:19<gbee>?
07:19<stuarta>http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/milestone/0.21?by=owner
07:20<gbee>ahh
07:21<gbee>wonder how many of those are just me closing something as invalid
07:21<stuarta>unless you reassign them to yourself first, not many
07:21<gbee>then again, I wouldn't be the owner in that case
07:21<stuarta>i'm having my own personal BSP on 17th & 18th
07:24[~]gbee wonders if he dares ask what BSP means in this context and risk looking foolish
07:24<stuarta>Bug Squashing Party
07:25<gbee>heh
07:25<stuarta>debian has them all the time
07:27<gbee>it's not a bad idea
07:32<stuarta>i had to make room in the diary several weeks ago
07:32<stuarta>and still may end up out on Sat for my mates bday drinks
07:36<gbee>I should be doing other work this week, but fixing mythmusic was more interesting
07:37<gbee>next week I'll be playing catch up
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09:16<gbee>I'd like to try out the series link stuff, but don't really want to rescan, last time I rescanned it completely screwed up my channels table
09:18<fred_basset>it'll work without it, just with unqualified CRIDs
09:19<gbee>oh good
09:20<fred_basset>i've just sent an email to that effect to -dev
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09:41<Merlin83b2>fred_basset: How will it interact with already recorded shows?
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09:44<fred_basset>Merlin83b2: already recorded stuff doesn't have the programid & seriesid
09:44<fred_basset>so it has to fallback to normal dup methods
09:44<Merlin83b2>Figured so. In that case, would the 'smart' duplicate checking use subtitle/desc checking?
09:45<Merlin83b2>(It's installed and running but I haven't been home to try it!)
09:45<fred_basset>it's inbuilt, cause those in america always have programid's....
09:46<fred_basset>i've got a ticket about the "smart" dup method
09:46<fred_basset>my feeling is that it won't be needed if the relevant shows have proper data
09:46<Merlin83b2>Ah right, so smart just happens anyway?
09:46<Merlin83b2>And we leave it set to subtitle/desc or subtitle as appropriate
09:47<fred_basset>yup. programid overrides sub/desc if present
09:48<Merlin83b2>Cool, so I don't even need to configure anything :>
09:48<janneg>smart dup check is subtitle/desc with empty subtitles considered as match
09:48<Merlin83b2>Good work, sir!
09:49<fred_basset>janneg: that's the one i have a ticket about...
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09:50<stuarta>i may still put it in anyway...
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09:51<janneg>I know. I just wanted to clarify it
09:54<gbee>stuarta: think the 'smart' matching would still be a good addition for those who don't have program ids
09:54<stuarta>yeah, i'm thinking that too.
09:55<janneg>but we should find a different name
09:55<stuarta>we don't have "smart" yet tho...
09:56<janneg>but the check isn't smart
09:56<gbee>I don't think smart is a bad name, it is 'smarter' than the current duplicate checking
09:57<stuarta>it's just not quite right is it..
09:57<janneg>no, it works only better for your and mine data
09:59<janneg>the current subtitle/desc is smarter since it tries to detect and record generic episodes
10:00<janneg>and fails utterly for my data
10:01<stuarta>you been using the "smart" check?
10:02<gbee>it could just be called "Subtitle then Description" - I know it's not the short snappy name we're looking for, but it does describe the behaviour
10:03<stuarta>this is true, pretty much what i was thinking
10:03<janneg>no, I use only descriptionthe only
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10:03<janneg>no, I use only description
10:07<janneg>what about "full"? the current subtitle/description could be renamed to "full + record generic"
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14:03<J-e-f-f-A|work>CDev: Are you around?
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14:31<J-e-f-f-A|work>CDev_ Hi - can I ask you a question about uPnP?
14:31<CDev_>sure
14:32<gbee>in 3000 words or less, what is uPnP?
14:32<gbee>bet you're sorry now!
14:32<CDev_>gbee: didn't say I'd answer it! :-)
14:33<J-e-f-f-A|work>CDev_ - I was wondering if I could help develop a 'mythfrontend' -like look & feel for the uPnP interface -- is that possible? is it just more-or-less HTML with uPnP as the discovery mechanism and/or media protocol?
14:34<CDev_>Once the discovery is complete, it's basically a collection web service calls.
14:34<CDev_>I have been adding uPnp discovery of the backend servers to MythFrontend.
14:35<CDev_>As part of that, I was going to include stub implementations of a upnp media renderer.
14:35<J-e-f-f-A|work>CDev_: cool. I like what I see so far - I'm trying it out with my new Buffalo LinkTheatre DVD media player. It's basically just a 'directory' browser so far, right? (at least in .20)
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14:36<CDev_>That's all the CDS (Content Director Service) is: a collection of media that is remotely browsable.
14:37<CDev_>To make the frontend a true upnp control point/client will take a lot of work which I was not focusing on.
14:38<CDev_>You may want to look at the specs on www.upnp.org to see what services are defined.
14:38<CDev_>Keep in mind that most services/methods are optional and most devices don't implement all of them.
14:38<J-e-f-f-A|work>CDev_: Yeah, I don't expect you to do that! ;-) I just though it would be pretty neat to be able to plug in a uPnP media player and have a somewhat graphical 'MythTV Player" screen pop up. ;-)
14:39<J-e-f-f-A|work>CDev_: Is everything you're doing in code (ie c or whatever), or is some of the stuff done in php or with apache?
14:39<CDev_>It's all C++ (including my own implementation of a small http server)
14:39<gbee>cool ... guess I really know even less about uPnP than I thought
14:41<CDev_>Other than helping out with autodiscovery, I'm mostly focusing on the upnp library and building a solid implementation in the backend server.
14:42<J-e-f-f-A|work>CDev_: Thanks. I'll look into it more when I get a chance. Thank you for answering my questions, and for the uPnP integration you've already done! ;-)
14:42<xris>CDev_: btw, does your channel-info upnp query bring in stuff from tables other than channel? e.g. dtv_multiplex
14:43<CDev_>xris: I'll have to look. (There is no reason it can't if it already doesn't)
14:44<xris>I only discovered them the other day, and have added them to the perl bindings.. figured I should mention it to you, too, in case we decide at some point to standardize on xml instead of mysql for grabbing that info.
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14:47<CDev>xris: Probably wouldn't hurt to create a ticket for the extra data. I'm in the middle of some larger changes and will most likely forget about it.
14:49<CDev>The autodiscovery is turining into a major pain... On startup of the frontend, I don't have access to any of the context methods to retrieve settings. :(
14:49<CDev>So, I'm refactoring my code to be more independent, but still be configurable.
14:50<CDev>Chutt: do you see any issue with using an xml config file to store startup defaults for mythfrontend?
14:51<CDev>clear
15:06<Chutt>what defaults?
15:07<CDev>I shouldn't of used the word defaults.
15:08<CDev>If the file does not exist, everything would work ok.
15:08<Chutt>just cache random stuff?
15:09<CDev>I need a place to store the USN (unqiue id) of the master backend after it's been located and choosen by the user (in a multi master backend config)
15:10<Chutt>switchable later on?
15:10<CDev>I beleive GreyFoxx was talking about having a screen in the setup that will allow the user to switch master backends.
15:10<Chutt>i fairly often switch which master backend my dev box talks to
15:11<CDev>The alternative is to always give the user a list of masters on startup.
15:11<Chutt>naw, should cache it
15:11<CDev>ok
15:11<Chutt>i don't mind xml for that
15:11<GreyFoxx>I'd say a commandline override for a specific session, with a setup screen for them to pick manualyl if they want
15:11<Chutt>but it may be easier to use the existing mysql.txt file writing stuff
15:12<CDev>Also, I have a lot of config settings that a user can override... I was using the the settings table. Is it appropriate to read the values from the file also, or should they be command line params?
15:12<Chutt>like what?
15:13<CDev>Port for upnp requests, Friendly name, Max Threads in http server, ...
15:13<Chutt>if they're not settings for how to talk to the db, probably should just live in the db settings table
15:13<CDev>Problem is, the upnp stack gets initialized (using all the settings) before we can find the master backend to talk to.
15:15<CDev>They all have defaults in the code, it would only be needed if the user wanted to override them.
15:16<Chutt>ah
15:16<Chutt>sure, stick em in the file then
15:16<kvandivo>what percentage of the time would you think they would need overridden, out of curiousity?
15:17<CDev>ok. thanks. I was thinking a new xml config file, since the autodiscovery code would make the mysql.txt obsolete.
15:18<Chutt>thanks fine
15:18<Chutt>err, that's
15:19<CDev>kvandivo: The only thing I can see that users would want to override frequently is the friendly name. (so each frontend gets a name that can be recognized, instead of a list of 5 "MythTv A/V Renderer")
15:19<kvandivo>friendly name is the one i was wondering about..
15:19<Chutt>stick the host name in the friendly name by default
15:19<kvandivo>i guess if its only used for differentiation in 'reports' it's not that big a deal
15:19<CDev>Chutt: will do... makes sense.
15:19<kvandivo>nod
15:20<CDev>kvandivo: Hopefully, it will eventually be used to remote control each frontend, from any uPnP controlpoint.
15:20<kvandivo>host name sounds like an excellent default
15:21<CDev>Chutt: one more thing if you have time?
15:21<Chutt>sure
15:22<Chutt>i had just been taking a break from work, anyway. it was guitar hero time.
15:22<CDev>The upnp spec has a device sending a M-Search request on startup to get the initial list of devices on the network.
15:23<CDev>I was going to re-use the SSDP class to listen on a reply socket for 2-5 secs to handle the replys.
15:23<CDev>problem is, it creates a new thread, and I'm sure you would like me to avoid that.
15:24<CDev>I'm thinking of changing the SSDP class to service multiple sockets at once, but would need to use the select function.
15:24<CDev>I'm worried about the performance of 'select'... do you have an opinion?
15:24<Chutt>what performance?
15:25<Chutt>you could use the MythSocket class, too
15:25<Chutt>it spawns one thread for all socket listeners
15:25<CDev>It's a udp datagram.
15:25<Chutt>yeah, but mythsocket is just a small wrapper around qsocketdevice
15:26<xris>CDev: I'll create a ticket once I figure out what fields will be needed, etc.
15:26<CDev>I need to be able to listen on 3 different sockets/ports at once. (1 for multicast, 1 for broadcast (optional), and 1 for m-search responsed)
15:26<Chutt>ok
15:27<CDev>right now, I create 2 instances of the SSDp class (one for multicast, and one for broadcast).
15:27<CDev>each one gets its own thread.
15:27<CDev>adding a third, and for only 2-5 secs per m-search request, doesn't make as much sense.
15:28<CDev>(trying to reduce the number of threads, since reading your concerns over the past few days)
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15:29<Chutt>why can't it be consolidated into one thread listener?
15:30<CDev>I guess I don't know enough about sockets.
15:30<CDev>If I have 3 socket/ports, can I bind them to the same listener?
15:30<Chutt>select has no bad performance overhead :p
15:31<CDev>good enough. I'll see if I can reduce it all down to one thread using select.
15:31<Chutt>you should be able to, yes.
15:31<Chutt>check out the MythSocket code for an example.
15:31<Chutt>it pretty much does exactly that
15:31<CDev>I have... but I've been trying to avoid slots, since I am always in a worker thread.
15:32<xris>Chutt: is there documentation somewhere for how to interact with the backend for livetv, or just the code??
15:32<Chutt>xris, just the code.
15:32<Chutt>CDev, it doesn't use slots
15:32<xris>ok, cool
15:32<xris>thinking I'd like to get that into the perl bindings for eventual use in transcoding for mythweb.
15:33<Snow-Man>xris: Did you need something from me?
15:34<CDev>Chutt: my bad.. thinking of httpcomms.
15:34<xris>Snow-Man: nope, not yet
15:36<Snow-Man>k.
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15:37<xris>I poked around on the service web stuff for a bit, set up a new svn repo for it, etc...
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15:37<xris>is there any kind of backup system in place on that box?
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15:44<Snow-Man>xris: eh, not at the moment..
15:44<Snow-Man>And it hasn't got a tape drive. :/
15:44<Snow-Man>I'll ask OSUOSL if they've got anything we could piggy-back on.
15:48<xris>huh? what does a tape drive have to do with backups?
15:48<xris>I was thinking of something more along the lines of rsnapshot (both onsite and remote)
15:48<Chutt>bah, just rsync it to your new box
15:48<xris>Chutt: that's what rsnapshot does
15:48<Chutt>i'm still payin you for hosting :p
15:48<xris>hahaha
15:49<xris>Snow-Man: anyway, no biggie. just wanted to make sure that the new /var/lib/svn-www dir got added to any existing backups. but since there aren't any, it's not a big deal (other than the "no backups" thing)
15:53<Snow-Man>Chutt: Well, I could, but it'd be kind of dumb if OSUOSL is willing to do it, which it sounds like they are.
15:53<Chutt>aah, ok
15:53<Snow-Man>16:52 <@marineam> Snow-Man: yes, using rsync+dirvish
15:54<ServerSage>So, if I do any kind of drive IO on my backend system (a du for example) I get ivtv DMA errors, and livetv gets very choppy.
15:54<Chutt>i did say that 4 minutes before he answered
15:54<Chutt>ServerSage, topic.
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15:54<Snow-Man>xris: Well, my plan would be to back up the whole box.. :)
15:54<ServerSage>Chutt: Sorry, wrong window. Hehe.
15:54<Snow-Man>Chutt: I havn't been paying attention for like 10 minutes, so... :)
15:57<xris>Snow-Man: then that's what dar is for. :)
15:58<Snow-Man>Basically we need to set up an rsync server for / and then limit access to it.
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15:59<xris>Snow-Man: or use an ssh key attached to root and a specific IP
15:59<Snow-Man>uh, or do the rsync server like marineam said..
16:00<xris>I prefer secure connections, personally. but either way works.
16:00<Snow-Man>That wasn't an option provided.
16:01<GreyFoxx>how much disk space is actually used on the box ?
16:01<Snow-Man>approx 25G
16:02<GreyFoxx>ok I can likely add that to my work backup system if getting another solution setup is a problem (colo facility with gobs of backup machines and gobs of disk space)
16:02<xris>which might change dramatically if we start adding more themes or something like that.
16:02<GreyFoxx>We use rsync+backuppc usually over ssh with a key
16:03<GreyFoxx>we've got backup servers in multiple locations that do nothing but rsync other machines
16:03<Snow-Man>I don't think it'll be an issue..
16:03<GreyFoxx>k
16:05<Snow-Man>xris: marineam would rather have unencrypted backups over a local net than password-less ssh keys. Also pointed out that if rsync supported SSL..
16:10<xris>yes, for local backups, sure.. but I thought we were talking about sending offsite.
16:10<Snow-Man>uh, no..
16:13<xris>gotcha.
16:14<xris>I was thinking about having a geographically different backup site.. for major-disaster recovery.
16:14<xris>but I was also only thinking about specific things like svn/web data
16:14<GreyFoxx>That's what I assumed you meant, hence the office :)
16:14<GreyFoxx>s/office/offer
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16:19<Snow-Man>xris: They may have that but it'd probably all be over their own network anyway.
16:19<xris>yeah. if they have their own backup solution, that's cool
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16:44<Snow-Man>Chutt, xris: I've created a ticket w/ OSUOSL to get backups going on alcor. I believe everything is set up on our system, and it should do the whole box (excluding dumb things like /sys and /proc)
16:45<xris>cool
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17:19<Snow-Man>OSUOSL kicked off an initial backup for us. :)
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17:50<xris>nice
17:50<xris>man, really nice service they're doing for us.
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18:22<Snow-Man>xris: indeed.
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21:09<Sembiance>Just wanted to remind everyone, I have some PC HD5500 PCI cards that I don't need anymore
21:09<Sembiance>I'd be willing to donate them to MythTV developers that could use them to benefit mythtv
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22:40<adante>Sembiance: might be worth asking on the mailing list
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22:43<xris>asking what?
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22:56<xris>anyone around know anything about the dtv_multiplex table?
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 10 00:00:09 2007