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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2007-02-10

---Logopened Sat Feb 10 00:00:10 2007
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02:36<xris>.
02:38<gbee> ..
02:38<xris>stupid gaim steals focus.
02:38<gbee>:)
02:38<xris>If I'm typing in one tab and an incoming message pops up, focus seems to randomly switch to another tab.
02:40<gbee>not a setting that can be turned off?
02:40<gbee>although if it's random, then it doesn't sound like a feature
02:40<xris>bug in the beta for version 2.
02:41<xris>guess I should upgrade to a newer version
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11:40<martin__>hallo!
11:40<martin__>Ich komme einfach nicht weiter!
11:41<martin__>mythtv schaltet einfach nicht ab! bin schon 2 Tag an dem Problem und finde keine Lösung!
11:41<martin__>Folgende Fehlermeldung hab ich unter /etc/auth.log:
11:41<martin__> mediapc sudo: (pam_unix) authentication failure; logname= uid=0 euid=0 tty= ruser= rhost= user=mythtv
11:41<martin__>kennt das jemand?
11:42<martin__>Muss man den User mythtv mehr rechte geben?
11:43<martin__>Hallo? Kann mir jemand helfen? Ist hier jemand? :-)
11:44<lucas123>martin, topic.
11:46<martin__>topic?
11:46<martin__>Was heist das?
11:47<gardengnome>martin__: du hast dich verippt. du willst #mythtv-de anstelle von #mythtv
11:47<gardengnome>s/verippt/vertippt/
11:49<martin__>da bist du ja wieder ! Danke dir!
11:51<gbee>will have to learn some German one day
11:52<gardengnome>heh :)
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17:09<xris>Snow-Man: need sqlite3 installed on the www vhost. Looks like you got the php bindings, but not the app itself.
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17:17<Snow-Man>meh, I was setting up my printer. :)
17:18<xris>heh
17:18<xris>`apt-get update` seems to be hanging or something.
17:18<Snow-Man>grrr.
17:18<xris>ah. aptitude runs
17:18<Snow-Man>Get out of it. :P
17:18<xris>easier to install with apt
17:18<Snow-Man>Damnit.
17:18<xris>it's going
17:19<Snow-Man>xris: Quit fucking with it.
17:19<xris>sorry
17:19<Snow-Man>apt-get doesn't track the dependency information correctly
17:19<xris>thought you wanted me to get it.
17:19<xris>ahh. weird.
17:19<xris>thought that was all handled via dpkg
17:19<xris>weird. still not working. I think it needs an apache restart.
17:20<Snow-Man>uhm
17:20<Snow-Man>How about you tell me what's actually wrong instead of just fucking with it? :P
17:21<xris>well, mainly, I needed the sqlite3 commandline program so I could actually mess with this db.
17:21<Snow-Man>Fine, that's installed, what are you talking about apache then?
17:21<xris>but also, sqlite3 and php4 supposedly don't get along very well. I was hoping that installing sqlite3 itself would let php4 access it.
17:21<Snow-Man>'supposedly'? According to who/what
17:21<Snow-Man>?
17:21<xris>but I doubt that restarting apache will make a difference to the cli version of php
17:22<Snow-Man>sqlite3 being installed has got no effect on php4 talking to an sqlite3 database.
17:22<xris>"supposedly" according to the php manual.. says php5-only.. but debian has that php4-sqlite3 package
17:22<Snow-Man>gah, no, restarting apache won't help cli php at all
17:22<Snow-Man>Where in the world would you get such an idea?
17:23<xris>I'm messing with both apache and cli at the moment.. briefly forgot this test was on the cli
17:23<Snow-Man>So, uh, what's the problem again, exactly?
17:23<xris>main problem.. php + sqlite3 doesn't seem to work on www
17:23<Snow-Man>===# php -r 'echo phpinfo();' | grep -B8 SQLite
17:23<Snow-Man>SQLITE3
17:23<Snow-Man>SQLite3 support => enabled
17:24<xris>yeah, I see that it's there.
17:24<xris>but the functions themselves don't work
17:24<xris>Fatal error: Call to undefined function: sqlite_open() in - on line 3
17:24<Snow-Man>What happens?
17:24<Snow-Man>hmm.
17:24<Snow-Man>Where's the php?
17:24<xris>ahh... php4-sqlite3 isn't an official php extension..
17:24<Snow-Man>===# php -r 'sqlite3_open();'
17:24<xris>hang o
17:24<Snow-Man>Warning: Wrong parameter count for sqlite3_open() in Command line code on line 1
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17:25<Snow-Man>/usr/share/doc/php4-sqlite3/examples/example1.php
17:25<xris>ok, yeah... the "not officially part of php" part confused me.
17:25<xris>I found the project page with the api now, though.
17:26<xris>should be all good now.
17:26<xris>thx for humoring me.
17:26<Snow-Man>heh
17:27<xris>I generally expect php packages to be covered under the php.org docs
17:27<xris>er, php.net
17:27<Snow-Man>/usr/share/doc/<package-name>/ is where documentation for the packages lives on Debian.
17:28<xris>good enough. I just assumed it was a subpackage, like fedora does it (and presumably how other php packages are in debian)... which wouldn't necessarily have any docs.
17:28<Snow-Man>I've also installed sqlite3-doc which has what looks like an html set of documentation on sqlite3.
17:28<xris>yeah, sqlite.org covers all of that sort of stuf.
17:29<Snow-Man>xris: apt-get shouldn't be used. It doesn't track the automatically-installed status of packages.
17:29<Snow-Man>It can also end up confusing aptitude.
17:30<xris>really? that's lame
17:30<Snow-Man>aptitude can be used in the 'aptitude install <blah>' form as well
17:30<xris>gotcha
17:30<Snow-Man>apt-get was never intended as a proper front-end.
17:30<xris>ahh
17:30<xris>it has been in the redhat world
17:30<Snow-Man>eh?
17:31<Snow-Man>Just use aptitude, or better yet, let me take care of it. :)
17:31<xris>apt was the preferred method of installing stuff from redhat 9 through about fc 3 or 4
17:31<xris>I'm happy to let you do it.
17:31<xris>just got confused when you started telling me to do stiff.
17:31<xris>stuff
17:31<xris>didn't want to search through the list of stuff in aptitude, so switched to apt-get.
17:32<Snow-Man>I said 'use aptitude' and then said 'I'll do it' :P
17:32<xris>but now I know.. on the off chance I need something and you're not around, I won't use apt-get.
17:32<xris>I missed the "I'll do it" part
17:33[~]xris wonders where would be the best place to put the sqlite db
17:37[~]Snow-Man shrugs.
17:37<Snow-Man>I'm afk.
17:38<xris>thx again,
17:42<xris>Snow-Man: need rsync on www, too... makes it easier to install files (the --cvs-exclude option is really handy)
17:44<xris>and I need some poking at the apache conf so I can turn on mod_rewrite via .htaccess
17:45<xris>anyway, I think I'm going to go cut some wood before it gets too dark. pm me when you're back.
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20:46<J-e-f-f-A>CDev, are you around atm?
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21:07<Snow-Man>xris: err, rsync *is* installed, on both the main system and in the www vserver.
21:08<Snow-Man>We've been running an rsync service off www for the OSUOSL ftp site since, like, september...
21:08<xris>haha. my bad. I'm too used to bash-completion completing manpage names for me.
21:09<xris>I apparently need more sleep
21:09<Snow-Man>And what site do you need the mod_rewrite stuff for?
21:09<xris>services
21:09<xris>AllowOverride All should do it. I forget which specific override option is needed for mod_rewrite
21:10<xris>but All should give me auth overrides, too, which will eventually be needed
21:10<Snow-Man>Just on the whole thing under htdocs/, or something more specific?
21:11<xris>htdocs is fine
21:11<Snow-Man>heh
21:11<xris>we can tweak it later (and move rewrite stuff into the vhost config) once I've worked the glitches out.
21:11<Snow-Man>a'ight, just don't do anything dumb. :)
21:11<Snow-Man>Change made and apache reload.
21:11<xris>like right now, how { echo "foo";exit; } at the top of the file is being completely ignored.
21:11<Snow-Man>+ed
21:12<xris>cool
21:12<xris>thx
21:13<Snow-Man>np
21:14<xris>I wonder if osu has some sort of web cache or something.
21:14<xris>but that shouldn't matter
21:16<Snow-Man>I don't think they do.
21:16<Snow-Man>Could be wrong tho, ask in #osuosl
21:16<xris>yeah, I see the hits in the apache logs
21:16<xris>just not sure what the heck is going on.
21:18<xris>Snow-Man: you don't have some kind of php cache running, do you?
21:18<Snow-Man>Shouldn't be on services, no.
21:18<xris>http://services.mythtv.org/channel-icon/ping
21:18<xris>that file contains the word "test"
21:18<xris>no code, etc.
21:18<xris>but it's still sending me timestamps, etc.
21:18<xris>like the code is cached
21:19<Snow-Man>hmmm.
21:19<xris>wow, postfix has a lot of processes open
21:19<Snow-Man>There's alot of mail that goes through that box.
21:19<xris>through www ?
21:19<Snow-Man>Yes, it runs the list-servs
21:19<xris>ahh
21:19<xris>that makes sense ,then
21:19<Snow-Man>yes. :)
21:20<xris>yup. you have eaccelerator running
21:20<xris>crap. it must be broken somehow
21:20<Snow-Man>xris: uhm, there is no 'ping', only an icons.php..?
21:21<xris>all content forwards to icons.php from mod_rewrite
21:21<Snow-Man>Well, I just forcibly restarted apache and it didn't help.
21:21<xris>eaccelerator is running, though. it'd maintain its own cache of bytecode
21:22<xris>It increases the performance of PHP scripts by caching them in their compiled state
21:22<xris>and we might not want to turn that off if it's helping the wiki
21:22<Snow-Man>I understand what it does but I figured it had to be referenced from something.
21:22<xris>apparently not
21:22<Snow-Man>hmm.
21:22<Snow-Man>Where do you see that it's being used?
21:22<xris>it's also apparently REALLY bad at determining file timestamps
21:23<xris>I don't
21:23<Snow-Man>hah
21:23<xris>or rather, I see it in the php.ini
21:23<xris>I don't see it actually running
21:23<Snow-Man>ah, if it's in php.ini then it'd probably affect everything.
21:23<Snow-Man>hmm
21:23<Snow-Man>eaccelerator.check_mtime="0"
21:23<Snow-Man>heh
21:24<xris>but at least I now have some ammo to also get memcached running.. since it caches other stuff for mediawiki (data)
21:24<xris>hahaha
21:24<xris>good catch
21:24<Snow-Man>The question is why tho.
21:25<Snow-Man>On a very busy server where PHP code doesn.t change often, performance might be improved by setting eaccelerator.check_mtime="0" to disable checking of source files for changes. Beware if you do this then when php files change you.ll have to clear the eAccelerator cache (via the control panel or using .apache2ctl graceful. at the command line) for changes to become visible.
21:25<Snow-Man>heh, liar!
21:25<Snow-Man>apache restart didn't seem to help.
21:25<xris>heh
21:26<Snow-Man>So, what do we think, need that time performance-boost, or no? :)
21:26<xris>well, can we get it set to 1 for now?
21:26<xris>performance would be more boosted by installing memcached and telling mediawiki to use it.
21:26<Snow-Man>That's kind of the question..
21:26<Snow-Man>Chutt: hey
21:26<Snow-Man>a'ight, since he ain't here I'll go ahead and change ti.
21:26<Snow-Man>err, s/ti/it/
21:27<xris>yay, thanks
21:27<Snow-Man>There ya go.
21:27<xris>and it works. yay
21:27<Snow-Man>Watch the site tho and lemme know if it starts to act crappy, k? :)
21:27<xris>sure.
21:27<xris>feel free to install memcached if you want. I'll poke around in the mediawiki settings to see what it takes to enable it.
21:28<Snow-Man>Chutt: fyi, changed 'eaccelerator.check_mtime' to 1 so xris can do development stuff. Supposedly that'll impact performance slightly but it seems unlikely to be all *that* bad to me.
21:28<Chutt>memcached will just use extra ram.
21:28<xris>I know that it *really* helps, since wikipedia, slashdot, etc all use it.
21:28<xris>Chutt: it does, yes.
21:28<Chutt>we don't have extra ram to use.
21:28<xris>holy crap
21:28<xris>wow
21:28<xris>why so much RAM used?
21:28<Snow-Man>Lotta shit going on, heh.
21:29<Chutt>trac, svn, www, lists
21:29<xris>yeah, that's nuts
21:29<Snow-Man>Chutt: Think the check_mtime thing will be ok?
21:29<Chutt>Snow-Man, bench it?
21:29<Chutt>use ab? :p
21:30<Snow-Man>That'd require, like, a before and after and whatnot.
21:30<Chutt>crazy
21:30<Chutt>i do it whenever i make changes like that :p
21:30<Snow-Man>Chutt: Have you got a baseline then?
21:30<Chutt>not a current one, no
21:30<Snow-Man>And what parameters do you use, and where do you run it from
21:31<Chutt>like 10 concurrent processes, 1000 reqs each
21:31<Chutt>from localhost, so it's measuring the actual cpu difference, not network bandwidth.
21:31<Chutt>and hit the wiki
21:31<Chutt>and the main website
21:32<Chutt>since the wiki has the file-based complete page cache going on as well
21:32<Chutt>(for anon users)
21:33<Chutt>xris, i think the file-based mediawiki cache probably does more for cpu time than memcached would.
21:33<Chutt>all anon users get a static file, no db hits, etc
21:33<xris>Chutt: I think memcached just holds it in RAM instead of on-disk
21:33<Chutt>it holds sql query results, not the entire page
21:34<Chutt>afair
21:34<xris>thought it did other stuff, too. I could be wrong.
21:34<Snow-Man>erm, the file-based stuff will get cached anyway...
21:34<Chutt>and the files'll get cached in ram anyway
21:34<Snow-Man>(in memory that is)
21:34<Chutt>if they're being used
21:34<Chutt>heh
21:34<xris>Snow-Man: yes
21:34<Chutt>copycat
21:34<Snow-Man>heh
21:35<Snow-Man>So, like, 20ms across all requests, 200ms per request or so
21:35<Snow-Man>approx 50 reqs/sec
21:35<Snow-Man>For both sites
21:35<Chutt>difference?
21:35<Snow-Man>Turning check_mtime off now..
21:35<Chutt>that seems slow for some reason
21:35<Snow-Man>Seemed kinda slow to me too... <Shrug>
21:35<Chutt>i thought we were up in the thousands of reqs/s
21:36<Chutt>it's been ages since i checked tuning, though
21:36<Snow-Man>Very slight difference with it off
21:36<Snow-Man>Sure you didn't have more concurrent or something?
21:37<Chutt>possibly..
21:37<Chutt>here, lemme run it
21:37<Snow-Man>I was doing ab -c 10 -n 1000
21:37<Snow-Man>Sure
21:37<Snow-Man>I'm done, difference with it off was about 1 req/sec more
21:39<Chutt>Time per request: 2.176 [ms] (mean)
21:39<Chutt>Time per request: 0.218 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests)
21:39<Chutt>did you just say it wrong or...?
21:39[~]Snow-Man blinks.
21:39<Chutt>ab -n 1000 -c 10 http://www.mythtv.org/
21:39<Snow-Man>Time per request: 196.272 [ms] (mean)
21:39<Snow-Man>Time per request: 19.627 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests)
21:39<Snow-Man>===# ab -c 10 -n 1000 http://wiki.mythv.org/
21:39<Chutt>oh, the wiki :p
21:39<xris>hahaha
21:39<Snow-Man>No, it was about the same for www too, sec
21:39<Chutt>Time per request: 108.303 [ms] (mean)
21:39<Chutt>Time per request: 10.830 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests)
21:40<Chutt>that's what i got for the wiki
21:40<Snow-Man>Server Hostname: www.mythv.org
21:40<Snow-Man>Requests per second: 50.80 [#/sec] (mean)
21:40<Snow-Man>Time per request: 196.852 [ms] (mean)
21:40<Snow-Man>Time per request: 19.685 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests)
21:40<Snow-Man>Transfer rate: 19.96 [Kbytes/sec] received
21:40<Chutt>i did www.mythtv.org/wiki/, though
21:40<Chutt>are you doing it from that box?
21:40<Chutt>or externally?
21:40<Snow-Man>===# hostname
21:40<Snow-Man>www.mythtv.org
21:40<Chutt>weird.
21:40<Snow-Man>yea
21:40<Snow-Man>I'm gonna try it with the args flipped the way you had it
21:41<Chutt>my www.mythtv.org results are consistant.
21:41<Snow-Man>Nope, same deal...
21:41<Snow-Man>Server Hostname: www.mythv.org
21:41<Snow-Man>Time per request: 191.572 [ms] (mean)
21:41<Snow-Man>Time per request: 19.157 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests)
21:41<Snow-Man>Transfer rate: 20.51 [Kbytes/sec] received
21:41<Snow-Man>Mine are pretty consistant too, heh...
21:41<Chutt>the wiki's slower than i remembered.
21:41<Snow-Man>Chutt: Are you doing it ssh'd directly to the www server?
21:41<Chutt>yes.
21:41<Snow-Man>I wonder if that's it..
21:42[~]xris tries
21:42<xris>I'm getting the same results as Snow-Man
21:42<Snow-Man>freaky
21:42<Chutt>ab -n 1000 -c 10 http://www.mythtv.org/
21:43<xris>and I'm ssh'd directly in
21:43<Chutt>for that, as root, ssh'd in to www.mythtv.org and su?
21:43<xris>www is FAST
21:43<xris>wiki is slow
21:43<Snow-Man>xris: err, same results as me, or Chutt?
21:43<Chutt>my last wiki was about
21:43<Chutt>Time per request: 86.704 [ms] (mean)
21:43<Chutt>Time per request: 8.670 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests)
21:43<xris>www matches chutt
21:43<xris>wiki matches Snow-Man
21:43<Snow-Man>heh
21:44<xris>trying mythtv.org/wiki
21:44<Chutt>wiki.mythtv.org will hit the redirect rule in apache
21:44<Chutt>every time
21:44<xris>yeah. either way, it was 199 / 19
21:45<xris>I'll need eaccelerator off while I dev this channel icon lookup stuff, though
21:45<Chutt>can you do that elsewhere?
21:45<xris>though I can always run it on my own server for now.
21:45<Snow-Man>whoa
21:45<Chutt>it's a huge difference
21:45<Snow-Man>That was fast as fuck.
21:45<xris>Chutt: the slowness I'm seeing is with caching on.
21:46<Snow-Man>I think it has to be with the vserver thing.
21:46<xris>er, with the mtime-check on, that is.
21:46<xris>I don't care if caching is on.. just the mtime check.
21:46<Snow-Man>xris: err.
21:46<Chutt>Time per request: 42.931 [ms] (mean)
21:46<Chutt>Time per request: 4.293 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests)
21:46<Snow-Man>It's off atm.
21:46<Snow-Man>heh
21:46<Chutt>that's the _real_ website
21:46<xris>Snow-Man: oh? it's on in php.ini
21:46<Chutt>without the static index.html =)
21:47<xris>oh, wait. off now. heh
21:47<Snow-Man>xris: I turned it off a while back to test with and w/o
21:47<Snow-Man>Except then I was getting the funny numbers. :)
21:47<Chutt>xris, necessary feature on the website redesign is the ability to make it static (at least the main page)
21:47<Snow-Man>Now both are insanely fast for me, heh.
21:47<Chutt>but if i can do that with just a wget > index.html
21:48<xris>Snow-Man: mtime check off means that I can't test.
21:48<Snow-Man>xris: yes, yes, I know
21:48<Snow-Man>Chutt: Want me to turn it back on and you can do tests and decide how you want it done?
21:48<Snow-Man>Or what?
21:48<xris>Chutt: my redesign does pretty much that. not static, but no db.. just pulls the top N files from a directory and prints them.
21:49<xris>Snow-Man: I'd be curious to see how much slower it gets with the mtime check
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21:49<Snow-Man>I can re-enable it but I'm apparently not very good at doing the right benchmarking or whatever. :)
21:50<xris>I get the same results you do against wiki
21:50<Snow-Man>erm, I'm getting wildly different results now tho, heh.
21:50<xris>make sure we're not all testing at the same time. heh
21:50<Snow-Man>Like, for the wiki:
21:50<Snow-Man>Requests per second: 6567.45 [#/sec] (mean)
21:50<Snow-Man>Time per request: 1.523 [ms] (mean)
21:50<Snow-Man>Time per request: 0.152 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests)
21:50<xris>are you on www or alcor?
21:51<Snow-Man>www... alcor hasn't got ab installed.
21:51<xris>my results are slightly faster with the mtime check on.
21:51<xris>weird
21:51<Snow-Man>When I was vserver enter'd in I got much slower numbers.
21:51<xris>oh, wait, it's still off
21:52<Snow-Man>But the numbers I'm getting now are still different from what Chutt was saying..
21:52<Snow-Man>xris: I was hoping to get an answer from Chutt on what he wanted to do. :)
21:52<xris>I'm still seeing 19x and 19
21:52<xris>any chance you can turn the mtime check back on so I can see how it affects things?
21:53<Snow-Man>It's Chutt's call, not mine.
21:53<xris>even just briefly?
21:53<Snow-Man>He was *just* here. :P
21:53<xris>yes
21:53<xris>and then went quiet
21:53<Snow-Man>xris: I'm not sure what difference it makes if we aren't getting reliable benchmark numbers anyway..
21:54<xris>mine and yours are really close
21:54<xris>but you really can't get accurate benchmarks with the website still open to the public
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21:54<Snow-Man>Should be able to get something a touch more reliable than this. :P
21:55<Snow-Man>xris: What numbers are you getting, exactly, and for what command-line args?
21:55<xris>ab -c 10 -n 1000 http://www.mythv.org/wiki/
21:55<Snow-Man>What did you mean by '19x and 19'?
21:55<xris>Time per request: 197.533 [ms] (mean)
21:55<xris>Time per request: 19.753 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests)
21:55<xris>been getting 192 to 199 ms for the first number
21:55<xris>and 19.x for the second
21:55<Snow-Man>erm, that's what I was getting before, but didn't match Chutt and doesn't match what I'm getting now.
21:56<xris>odd
21:56<Snow-Man>Actually, www.mythtv.org/wiki/ gets me *worse* numbers than I get with wiki.mythtv.org, but it's closer to what Chutt was getting:
21:56<Snow-Man>Requests per second: 116.75 [#/sec] (mean)
21:56<Snow-Man>Time per request: 85.653 [ms] (mean)
21:56<Snow-Man>Time per request: 8.565 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests)
21:56<Snow-Man>Transfer rate: 50.67 [Kbytes/sec] received
21:56<xris>let me try
21:57<Snow-Man>oh, heh
21:57<xris>?
21:57<Snow-Man>wiki.mythtv.org *just* returns the redirect I bet.
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21:57<Snow-Man>That'd be, uhm, kinda quick.
21:57<xris>not for me
21:57<xris>Time per request: 246.802 [ms] (mean)
21:57<xris>Time per request: 24.680 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests)
21:57<xris>but I think we were running at the same time
21:58<Snow-Man>This is too bizarre.
21:58<Snow-Man>wiki.mythtv.org gets me a document length of 303 bytes
21:58<Snow-Man>www.mythtv.org/wiki/ says document length of 0, heh.
21:58<Snow-Man>yet it takes alot longer.
21:59<xris>Document Length: 241 bytes
21:59<xris>for wiki.mytht
21:59<Snow-Man>I give, you and Chutt can talk about it. :)
22:01<xris>I'll just test on my local server
22:01<xris>it's easier to edit, anyway
22:03<ibb>i got an idea that i would like to dedicate a system to mythtv satelite recording, unfurtunately there are about 19000 channels worldwide, i need to build the system around that what would you all recomend for the tv cards and ability to use the system as a cable box server
22:03<Snow-Man>Wrong channel.
22:03<ibb>where then?
22:03<xris>oh. except that I don't have the same sqlite library installed because I have php5 on my webserver.
22:03<xris>blech.
22:03<xris>ibb: /topic
22:04<ibb>what is the other channel then?
22:04<Snow-Man>uh, topic?
22:04<ibb>sorry
22:04<ibb>thanks
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22:11<xris>Chutt: what are the chances of mythtv.org getting upgraded to php 5.x? (I'm going to assume "slim")
22:12<Snow-Man>heh
22:12<xris>can't dev on my own box.. completely different version of php and sqlite bindings.
22:13<Snow-Man>hmm.
22:14<Snow-Man>php4 and php5 are actually pretty similar
22:14<Snow-Man>The different bindings kinda blows tho.
22:14<xris>php 5 for the most part is backwards compatible. just have to turn off notices.
22:14<xris>well, php4 doesn't have sqlite bindings at all.. the one you installed is a third-party plugin.
22:15<Snow-Man>Are the php5 ones really that much different..?
22:15<xris>completely
22:15<xris>http://php-sqlite3.sourceforge.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/API -> http://us3.php.net/manual/en/ref.sqlite.php
22:15<Snow-Man>It ain't like there's a huge number of different things about talking to a database..
22:16<xris>yeah.. but it's "minimal functionality" vs "standard functionality"
22:17<xris>but let me poke at this. maybe it's not as different as I originally thought.
22:17<Snow-Man>open, close, error, query...
22:17<Snow-Man>fetch, fetch_array..
22:17<xris>and returning results in various formats.. escaping strings, etc.
22:18[~]Snow-Man shrugs
22:18<xris>anyway, I can poke at it with the php5 stuff
22:18<Snow-Man>For the most part I'm actually of the opinion that we might be able to set you up a development setup somewhere/somehow
22:19<xris>need more RAM for that box and we could just create a couple more vservers.
22:19<Snow-Man>We could maybe run a small apache instance on another port.
22:19<Snow-Man>Or I could just set you up an account on tamriel.
22:20<Snow-Man>tamriel's my main box at home which runs pretty much the same stuff.
22:20<Snow-Man>Except no eaccelerator, and I'd have to install sqlite bindings but that's no big deal.
22:22<xris>if it really comes down to it, I could probably figure out how to install a xen instance with php4.
22:26[~]Snow-Man shrugs
22:28<xris>wtf. sqlite not even listed in my install options for php in fc5.
22:28<xris>man, I *so* want rhel5 to get released so I can upgrade.
22:31<Snow-Man>heh
22:31<xris>ok, it's there, but it's not there.
22:32<xris>now I'm just confused.
22:34<Snow-Man>gee, this r-hell thing sounds great! Where can I get it?
22:34<Snow-Man>:D
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22:36<sid>It seems MythTV releases about every 6 months, is there a 0.21 planned release coming soon? I couldn't find any public release schedule on the website. but the last release was about 6 months ago
22:36<Snow-Man>meh
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22:37<xris>sid: wrong channel, and you're way off on your timing observations (by a factor of two or so)
22:38<sid>xris: Where should I ask? I thought developers made the development schedule.
22:38<Snow-Man>See, that's your first mistake.
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22:38<Snow-Man>Assuming there's a schedule
22:38<sid>And as for the timing, I went by the time stamps from the website download section.. http://www.mythtv.org/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=1
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22:40<xris>sid: devs set release dates.. but this channel is for talking about code. "if there is a release date" is for the -users channel. most people there know that there isn't one.
22:41<Snow-Man>Not to mention that the release dates for major releases were: 2005-04-15, 2006-02-12, 2006-09-11, for the last three anyway.
22:42<Snow-Man>How that manages to be 'about every 6 months' is beyond me
22:44<J-e-f-f-A>... that would be an average of 8.5 months... ;-)
22:44<Snow-Man>Prior to that was 2005-02-11, heh.
22:44<Snow-Man>And before that was 2004-09-10
22:45<Snow-Man>So, like, meh.
22:46<J-e-f-f-A>Snow-Man, You know, technically, he's correct -- those dates compute to an *average* of 6 months... ;-)
22:46<Snow-Man>J-e-f-f-A: Yeah, ok, and what's the stddev?
22:47<xris>J-e-f-f-A: they do? 10 + 7 / 2 == 8.5 months
22:47<J-e-f-f-A>Snow-Man, I'm not 'defending' him.. I just thought that it's humerous that 10 + 7 + 2 + 5 / 4 = 6 ...
22:48<J-e-f-f-A>xris - yeah, but if you add the othe two he mentioned, it drops to 6...
22:48<xris>ahh
22:48<Snow-Man>J-e-f-f-A: I guess my point is that the Chutt's way too unpredictable. :)
22:50<J-e-f-f-A>Snow-Man, I fully understand... I'm sure he's got alot of other things going on in his life too! ;-)
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22:54[~]xris really wishes he could just do all of this in perl
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22:55<Snow-Man>erm, why not then?
22:55<Snow-Man>It ain't like I care.. :)
22:56<xris>i don't like mod_perl
22:56<Snow-Man>Why not?
22:56<xris>not really sure, actually
22:56<xris>I prefer my perl to run in cgi mode
22:56<Snow-Man>It knows how to check mtime's...
22:56<xris>heh
22:56<xris>so does php
22:57<Snow-Man>php kinda blows in some ways tho
22:57<xris>I'm now more just upset that I can't get sqlite running in my php at all
22:57<Snow-Man>Like, uploads, heh.
22:57<xris>"in some ways"?
22:57<Snow-Man>haha
22:57<xris>you can do uploads just fine. just have to run it in cgi mode.
22:57<Snow-Man>bleh
22:57<xris>perl can't do upload progress reports if you run in mod_perl, either.
22:57<Snow-Man>erm
22:58<Snow-Man>Funny, pretty sure that's exactly what we're doing at work, heh.
22:58<xris>really? that's one of the main reasons I don't like running perl in a module.
22:59<xris>if that's not the case, then I need to change my mind. :)
22:59<Snow-Man>Why in the world would you think that had something to do with running under mod_perl or not..?
23:01<xris>it was my understanding that the modular handlers waited for all info to be present before passing data to the scripts
23:01<xris>like php.
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23:02<xris>maybe I'm giving the php folks too much credit by assuming that the file-uploads issue was just in the module version
23:03<hads>:)
23:03<Snow-Man>uhm, yea..
23:04<xris>I also just have way too many bad memories of trying to get mod_perl + suexec + ssl all compiled for apache 1.x back in my slackware days.. could always only ever get one, never more than one at the same time.
23:05<Snow-Man>erm, mod_perl + suexec wouldn't make much sense, would it?
23:06<xris>I didn't know that back then.
23:06<Snow-Man>ah
23:06<xris>(8-9 years or so ago)
23:07<Snow-Man>xris: btw, you can do fun stuff with the CGI.pm upload-hook.. :)
23:08<xris>I need to mess with that more.
23:08<Snow-Man>Like, the latest version of CGI.pm has an option to not actually put any data into the temp file. :)
23:08<xris>the first time I tried to use CGI.pm it was in early alpha.. by the time I got around to messing with perl stuff on the web again, everyone used it as the standard.
23:08<Snow-Man>So, turn that on and then use the upload-hook to process the data to, say, load it directly into a database... :)
23:09<Snow-Man>It's cool that way. :) Just take a CSV and pipe it directly into a table in the DB without touching the disk on the web server. :)
23:10<xris>not bad
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23:10<Snow-Man>I like it. :)
23:13<xris>someday I'll rewrite mythweb in perl. heh.
23:14<Snow-Man>Bedtime for me..
23:18[~]xris grumbles about finally finding out why sqlite doesn't work in fedora
23:19<xris>Snow-Man: so for sqlite3 in php5, you need to use the PDO db connect stuff.. it's sort of like DBI for php, apparently
23:20<xris>so I can do php4 sqlite3, or php5 sqlite3, but the APIs are completely incompatible
23:20<xris>blech
23:22<Snow-Man>heh, nice.
23:22<Snow-Man>Actually, yea, I forgot about PDO
23:24<xris>I haven't actually messed with PDO. I wrote my own because php's mysqli stuff sucked.
23:24<xris>but pdo doesn't look half bad
23:26<xris>ahh. except that it doesn't do mysql5. heh.
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