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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2007-03-17

---Logopened Sat Mar 17 00:00:04 2007
---Daychanged Sat Mar 17 2007
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00:54<Demerzel>hello folks ...
00:54<Demerzel>i've been trying to locate some documentation on developing mythtv plugins but haven't found much
00:54<Demerzel>i seem to remember there being some dox on the main mythtv site but can't seem to locate it
00:55<Demerzel>i thought i'd look for a #mythtv channel on freenode and luckily one exists :)
00:55<Demerzel>long and short ... is there some dox on developing mythtv plugins ... standard practises etc?
00:57<Demerzel>*crickets*
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01:09<Demerzel>so ...
01:09<Demerzel>is there noone awake in the channel? :)
01:09<Demerzel>one would think hackers would be awake at all times of the day
01:09<xris>Demerzel: apparently no one who knows the answer
01:09<Demerzel>a ha! :)
01:10<Demerzel>xris: go figure ... do you do any development w/ myth?
01:10<xris>yup
01:10<xris>but nothing that would be much help to you.. mythweb + nuvexport
01:12<Demerzel>sweet ...sweet
01:12<Demerzel>sdfsdfsdfsdfsdfhmmm
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01:13<Demerzel>weird
01:14<Demerzel>xris: any tips on someone who wants to get started?
01:14<xris>the general suggestions are: fix bugs, submit patches. :)
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01:14<xris>there are a number of plugins that need help, too.
01:14<Demerzel>xris: is there a vetting process for patches?
01:15<Demerzel>or a "mentor" to attach to for this purpose?
01:15<Demerzel>or even standard guidelines to adhere to?
01:15<xris>not sure.
01:15<xris>brb
01:15<Demerzel>k
01:17<xris>generally, people hang out here or on the -dev mailing list.
01:17<xris>things are often a bit unorganized as far as who does what.
01:17<Demerzel>understood ... open source tends to be that way at times ...
01:18<Demerzel>specially with a young project like myth
01:18|-|czth_ [i=dbrobins@nat/microsoft/x-f0ea5470735d7de8] has joined #mythtv
01:18<Demerzel>well i've been looking over mythweather and it looks like if i work with main.cpp i should be able to create a hello world plugin at least
01:19<Demerzel>after that, it'll be blown wide open :)
01:19<xris>mythtv isn't all that young
01:19<xris>there should be a sample plugin in the official docs
01:19<Demerzel>ah .. that's what i'm looking for then ...
01:19<Demerzel>and maybe i got the wrong impression w/ the version number ...
01:20<Demerzel>i've only been a user since 0.19 i think
01:21<xris>started around 2002
01:22<Demerzel>wow
01:22<Demerzel>it's definitely been around for a while
01:22<xris>I've been using it for about 4 years, deving for at least 3
01:23<Demerzel>sweet
01:23<Demerzel>i've a feeling you'll be answering a lot of my questions in the near future :)
01:23<Demerzel>3 years makes you mentor material
01:23<xris>maybe. I don't know anything about the C++ code.
01:23<mikegrb>heh
01:23<Demerzel>oh ho ho :)
01:24<Demerzel>another mentor awakes perhaps?
01:24<mikegrb>xris: weren't you the original author of mythweb or did it predate you? I'm pretty sure I was using mythweb four years ago
01:24[~]xris goes back to cleaning the house for his bday party tomorrow.
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01:24<mikegrb>happy birthday
01:24<Demerzel>happy birthday!
01:25<xris>mikegrb: was originally written by a guy named Thor, who hasn't done much dev work in a couple of years.
01:25<mikegrb> ok, I think I remember that now that you mention it
01:25<mikegrb>I definately remember Thor
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01:25<xris>when I took over, the colors went from white to blue
01:25[~]mikegrb nods, I remember that change
01:25<Demerzel>nice
01:25<mikegrb>and then we got things like thumbnail images ;)
01:26<xris>heh
01:26<xris>just wait for .21 :)
01:26<Demerzel>so wait ... how is it you don't know anything about c++? :)
01:26<Demerzel>isn't that a requirement for writing plugins?
01:26<mikegrb>well I am sad to say we don't actively use mythtv at the moment
01:26<xris>Demerzel: mythweb's written in php
01:26<xris>it's not really a plugin. more like a pseudo frontend
01:26<Demerzel>ah
01:26<Demerzel>in that case ... first question: are there plans to port it to run on apache2?
01:27<mikegrb>it originally just talked to the db and not the mythcode at all
01:27<xris>Demerzel: huh? I've been running it under apache2 for ages
01:27<Demerzel>mythcode meaning ... the myth protocol?
01:27<mikegrb>sure
01:27<xris>mikegrb: it talked to the backend a little. not as much as it does now.
01:27<Demerzel>xris: oh cool ... for some reason on gentoo i seem to remember it required apache1
01:27<mikegrb>xris: before you?
01:27<Demerzel>maybe i need to lay off the crack
01:28<mikegrb>maybe for recording status or some such
01:28<xris>mikegrb: yeah, I didn't write the original mythbackend.php file
01:28<xris>yeah
01:28<mikegrb>oh well, not that it matters much at present time
01:28<xris>and once the xml/upnp stuff settles out a bit, I may be able to pull out a lot of the db code.
01:28<xris>(meaning, once I have time to actually learn to use it)
01:29<xris>anyway, really afk now.
01:29<mikegrb>see ya
01:29<Demerzel>later xris
01:29<Demerzel>mikegrb: do you do any myth development?
01:30<mikegrb>I have submitted a few tiny patches that were accepted
01:30<mikegrb>so writing a plugin is your aim
01:30<Demerzel>nice
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01:30<Demerzel>yeah ... i've been thinking of something i'd find useful
01:31<Demerzel>basically a torrent plugin (i haven't looked at torrentocracy in detail since it's for 0.11)
01:31<Demerzel>that can hook into the scheduler eventually
01:31<Demerzel>and act as a third "tuner" so to speak
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01:31<Demerzel>second tuner even
01:31<mikegrb>when I followed development more closely the common answer was to take a simple plugin like mythgame and start there
01:31<Demerzel>third if you've got two tuners :)
01:31<mikegrb>ohh
01:32<Demerzel>yeah i looked at mythweather
01:32<mikegrb>if you want to interface with the scheduler I don't think you can do that from a plugin
01:32<mikegrb>at least, not back when
01:32<mikegrb>would need code in the backend as well as frontend
01:32<Demerzel>and i think i can putz my way to a hello world plugin
01:32<mikegrb>yeah
01:32<Demerzel>mikegrb: indeed ... i figured i'd initially get the data model setup and a ui setup
01:33<mikegrb>could probably get away with a plugin for the frontend side
01:33[~]mikegrb nods
01:33<Demerzel>the plugin would be a springboard so to speak ...
01:33<mikegrb>aye
01:33<Demerzel>starts out as that and finally adds backend integration
01:34<Demerzel>and i figure as much as everyone loves mythtv ... sometimes the best way to catch a TV episode that you just missed ... or catch up on a TV series from S01E01 is to hit the torrent sites
01:34<Demerzel>integrating that into the mix would be a boon to me at least :)
01:34<mikegrb>indeed
01:35<Demerzel>plus it'll get me back into c++
01:35[~]Demerzel cracks his knuckles
01:35<mikegrb>I think quite a few people would like the ability to have the scheduler put off a higher priority show knowing that the series is heavily torrented to free up the tuner
01:35<mikegrb>for something us
01:35<mikegrb>s/us/else/
01:35<Demerzel>hopefully
01:35<Chutt>uh, wouldn't ever be accepted into myth.
01:36<Demerzel>once i get the feel for plugin development ... i'll be better able to determine how to design this thing
01:36<Demerzel>chutt: legal issues?
01:36<Chutt>ya think?
01:36<Demerzel>chutt: not usually .. but every now and then i'm forced to :)
01:36<Chutt>obviously.
01:36<Demerzel>chutt: it can remain an unofficial plugin
01:37<Chutt>there's already an unofficial torrent plugin.
01:37<Demerzel>get it into gentoo's portage
01:37<Demerzel>chutt: yeah it's meant for 0.11 tho
01:37<Chutt>you might want to try doing something useful, instead?
01:37<Demerzel>torrentocracy
01:37<Demerzel>chutt: what do you suggest?
01:38<Chutt>learning how to use a search engine, first.
01:38<Chutt>then asking questions :p
01:38<Demerzel>haha
01:38<Demerzel>i've been trying that :-/
01:38<Demerzel>either google's getting bad or i'm sucking ...
01:38<Demerzel>er .. no comments on that
01:38<Demerzel>:)
01:39<Demerzel>i just found a link on a forum to http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Building_Plugins:HelloMyth
01:39<Demerzel>so i'll get outta everyone's hair for now
01:39<Demerzel>but i'll be back :)
01:42<Demerzel>later folks
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02:05<xris>damn, missed out on getting to do the "no torrents" lecture.
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03:14<some_dude_>is there a bug in mythtranscode that makes it hog all of my CPU. Even when I tell it "low priority" in mythtv-setup?
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04:43<gbee>seems to be a bug in the storage groups code - it's using a LiveTV location for recordings
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10:18<JoeBorn>woohoo! connected
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10:35<momelod>hello people
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10:38<momelod>got a quick question: i've been running mythtv w/ a hauagpauage pvr-150 card capturing standard cable tv on the cards tuner. I remember when i set it up i had to loop the audio from the mic or something. Now i have connected my satilite stb to the composite interface on the capture card. I plug the sound from the stb into the mythbox with a Y cable and im not getting any sound with the picture?
10:39<momelod>for some reason i cant find that link i used regarding the looping of the mic and i beleive this is where my problem is
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10:54<jd86>momelod, #mythtv-users
10:54<momelod>jd86: thanx
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13:25<eulin>hi all
13:27<eulin>I need to change the mythtv 's recordings location.
13:27<eulin>Are there any problem if I cut&paste all file to new location?
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13:37<briand>xris: Happy Birthday!!
13:38<xris>thanks. :)
13:38<eulin>xris, Buon Compleanno!!(= Happy Birthday) ;-)
13:40<xris>eulin: grazzi
13:43<briand>np. :)
13:43<briand>just, now, you'll have to remember mine!! Muhahahaha (you've got until 12/19)
13:43<briand>;)
13:44<briand>hey.. did you change the manner in which mythweb fetches the little preview pics in the 'Recordings' screen?
13:44<briand>they had all been working, umm.. well, recently... but now, they're not.
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13:45<gbee>19th Dec?
13:45<gbee>I think I'll remember that one
13:46<briand>how so, gbee?
13:46<briand>do we share a birthday?
13:46<gbee>aye
13:46<briand>:) cool.
13:46<CDev>briand: They are now using an xml method GetPreviewImage...
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13:47<gbee>it's odd, some of my preview images work, others dont - same goes for the actual recordings
13:47<briand>CDev: ahh... well, the "path" to the image on the generated web page contains some HTML code with tags and some spaces (%20) and the word "Error"
13:47<xris>briand: you the one who's been putting in bug reports?
13:48<briand>the preview files themselves (well, at least a ton of 'em) exist in the recordings directory
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13:48<briand>xris: umm, no. first, mine would be a bit more detailed. ;)
13:48<briand>and secondly, I wouldn't keep re-opening it if it was closed. :)
13:49<gbee>xris: if GetPreviewImage fails for some reason we are writing 0 size images to the cache dir - which prevent mythweb from retrying
13:49[~]gbee wasn't the one who opened the ticket either
13:49<briand>CDev (and/or xris): could it be erroring because I've re-enabled the "--noupnp" flag on mythbackend?
13:49<xris>briand: yes
13:49<xris>since the images come via upnp
13:49[~]briand sighs.
13:50<CDev>briand: I would be curious why you are still having upnp issues.
13:50<briand>well, the problem here is that if I don't use the --noupnp flag, mythbackend goes into 99.9% CPU usage and (not quite, but might as well...) crashes the machine, usually shortly after mfdb runs (and completes)
13:50<briand>CDev: you and me both! ;)
13:51<CDev>Shouldn't have anything to do with mfdb/
13:51<briand>i wouldn't think, and perhaps that's just coincidental
13:51<eulin>gbee, maybe you can help me :-) If I want to change the mythtv'recordings dir without loss data I nee only to cut&paste the file?
13:51<CDev>The only 99.9% cpu issue I've had was related to extra bytes being sent by the XBox 360 upnp stack.
13:52<briand>my memory of the problem before was that it seemed to do it shortly after mfdb ran (i let datadirect tell me when to run it)
13:52<briand>and, again the other day, it failed within a minute after mfdb finished running
13:52<CDev>strange.
13:52<briand>exactly. i'll need to do some (further) poking/prodding/testing with it
13:53<briand>obviously when i'm around the house and can hit the big red switch
13:53<briand>the machine gets so 'busied' that my ssh sessions close out, mythweb/mythwelcome/mythfrontend all think the backend has gone away, etc
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13:54<CDev>Just so you know... the upnp stuff is going to be used for a lot more features, so any help you can give in finding this issue, the better everyone will be.
13:54<briand>no local keyboard or mouse response, either.. kinda nasty without getting "actually nasty"
13:54<briand>CDev: granted. and I'm more than willing to help troubleshoot the problem.
13:54<GreyFoxx>if you have 0 access... how do you know mythbackend is going to 99% ?
13:54<gbee>eulin: best ask that sort of question in #mythtv-users, but I don't think moving the files will cause a problem
13:55<briand>I just hope it doesn't boil down to some issue with my specific hardware or something
13:55<CDev>briand: It's going to be had to get a backtrace if you don't have access to the machine :-(
13:55<CDev>s/had/hard
13:55<eulin>gbee, thank you I've forgot the users channel
13:56<briand>(ps: not running anything out of the ordinary. Asus P4V8X-MX mb with a 2.8GHz Celeron chip on it)
13:57<briand>CDev: yeah.. i *think* when it first happens (at least the -last- time I had the issue, back when GreyFoxx told me about the --noupnp flag), I can squeeze in a few quick commands via ssh before my session is closed out from under me
13:58<CDev>briand: I'll look through the code again, and see if I can find any obvious "potential loops"
13:59<briand>CDev: okay. and I'll work on trying to get an easily reproducible scenario here, without having to wait (up to) 24 hours for mfdb to run again, etc.
13:59<briand>once I have that info, I can turn on verbose logging to a separate file and give you a few gigabytes of logs (just kidding) to comb thru
13:59<CDev>:-) any information that helps.
14:00<briand>:)
14:01<briand>this is why I'd like to get it easily reproducible first -- then I can simply turn on full logging for boot thru error, and not have to wade (or have you wade) through thousands of lines of 'normal' before the error occurs
14:05<briand>GreyFoxx: sorry... didn't see your message earlier.
14:05<briand>GreyFoxx: I was running `top` via ssh, and it was still on the terminal screen after the connection quit out
14:10<jd86>anyone having trouble getting icons in mythweb to appear (svn trunk) some do, most don't.
14:10<jd86>oh.. oops, meant to use mythtv-users
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14:28<gbee>is there any need for --disable-upnp any more? as mythweb increasingly uses the xml methods and potentially mythmusic does too, it'll cause some confusion
14:28<CDev>gbee: I don't think so, but I didn't want to make that decission.
14:30<gbee>it does represent a security hole in some setups (shared networks), but that's the only reason I can think of for it to be disabled
14:31<briand>gbee: i may be a bit biased, but I propose it be retained (at least) for a bit longer, as I cannot maintain stability on my myth system without it. :)
14:32<gbee>briand: obviously once your problem is fixed, but then again forcing people to use upnp would be the best way to expose any remaining bugs
14:34<xris>CDev: could always just make the flag disable only the broadcast side of things? (is there such a thing?)
14:35<CDev>Yes: I could have it block the SSDP services.
14:36<xris>since the rest of the stuff is passive, and shouldn't make much of a difference.
14:36<CDev>I'd prefer to find the problem. (like gbee said...more exposure...)
14:37<CDev>The code I'm working on for the frontend, would require ALL part of upnp to be active.
14:37<CDev>got to go snowblow the driveway... be back later.
14:39<gbee>even making disabling the active broadcast doesn't make it secure on shared networks, with an inspired bit of guesswork or just patience I could download songs/recordings from your machine without permission - for example
14:42<gbee>and although I'd prefer to believe that the xml methods are secure, the possibility may still exist for them to be exploited by a more sophisticated attack to perhaps modify or access other files on the system
14:42<xris>gbee: true
14:43<GreyFoxx>if someone is forced to run it on a shared network and they don't want others accessing it, they should packet filter
14:43<gbee>all of which could be guarded against, if the option to specify a whitelist/blacklist of IPs existed, strictly for those using a shared network
14:43<GreyFoxx>Or we just allow a list of accepted IP/s or ranges like a hosts.allow file
14:43<xris>gbee: hosts.allow, hosts.deny
14:43<xris>there are times when it's appropriate to use the tools already in place in the OS
14:45<gbee>xris: so long as the user is given clear warning of that in the docs and maybe even during setup
14:46<GreyFoxx>even now with the mythprotocol anyone could connect to your backend, get a list of shows and download them, delete them, or get/change settings in your settings table without having access to your mysql database
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14:49<gbee>GreyFoxx: true
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14:50<gbee>not so easy to abuse as typing http://someserver:6544/Myth/GetRecording?ChanId=123&StartTime=5676 into an ordinary web browser - but still a valid point
14:51<gbee>short of installing mythfrontend of course ;)
15:23<jd99>would it be appropriate to open trac bug for crashing backend?
15:23<briand>hopefully, such a ticket would say more than "mythbackend keeps crashing".
15:23<briand>;)
15:24<jd99>oh yes, i've been doing gdb things and strace and been fighting with quite a while... but no one in mythtv-users has came up with any ideas and no responses to post on mythtv-users list...
15:28<jd99>briand, do you think I should ask in here? the message when joining made me think not.
15:29<briand>it's not for me to say. if you've actually found a bug (as opposed to a misconfigured myth system), there's no harm in it
15:29<briand>but, more often than not, it boils down to something going awry on a particular system because of certain error messages that go unseen/unread/ignored, etc.
15:32<jd99>yeah, thats why I typically do not want to bother people in here, I am actually using svn trunk... and I didn't do much of anythign prior to having problems (a few days prior I did setup slave backend) and it seems to do the same thing when it crashes, and seems to happen after commercial flagging has finished.
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15:47<AMD>hi devs
15:47<AMD>great work on mythtv
15:47<AMD>;)
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16:35<milan>hey i have a problem after reinstalling my fglrx driver live tv in mythtv is too wide
16:35<milan>seems like it's 16:9 always
16:35<milan>and pressing W isn't working
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16:38<hads>milan: Wrong channel
16:39<milan>hads: wich channel do i need?
16:39<hads>/topic
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16:42<milan>?
16:42<milan>i don't understand you
16:43<milan>ow
16:43<milan>sorry
16:43<hads>:)
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17:21<clever>hads: we should just change #mythtv to support and add a #mythtv-dev
17:22<clever>would fix alot of those n00bs:P
17:23<hads>It's nothing to do with me
17:39<GreyFoxx>clever: Will never happen
17:40<clever>why not?
17:40<GreyFoxx>Because it has been discussed over nad over and decided so
17:40<clever>lol
17:40<GreyFoxx>like it or not, we do expect users to read the topic on joining
17:40<GreyFoxx>and the bot that usually is in here and messgaes you
17:41<clever>i dont think it msged me when i last joined
17:41<GreyFoxx>It might not be here
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17:41<GreyFoxx>but it is also smart enough not to msg everytime you join
17:41<GreyFoxx>but it is also smart enough not to msg everytime you join
17:41<clever>ahhhh
17:41<clever>and i saw that msg of yours twice
17:42<GreyFoxx>cause I sent it twice
17:42<clever>could have been sent 3 times and i lost one while hoping:P
17:44<clever>69% formated...
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18:03<Keithamus>Hey dudes and dudettes - quick question if you please; whats the deal with HDTV on mythtv?
18:04<Keithamus>Can it or can it not play .evo files?
18:04<Keithamus>Is it hacky also?
18:05<hads>Keithamus: Wrong channel
18:06<Keithamus>sucks
18:06<Keithamus>sorry, forgot.
18:06<Keithamus>I do apologise.
18:06<hads>:)
18:06<Keithamus>thanks for the heads up
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22:30<Chutt>heh
22:30<Chutt>bunches of people just got unsubscribed from commits and users (probably dev soon)
22:30<Chutt>all gmail, 'user over quota'
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22:41<briand>remind me again why I never bothered to get a gmail account
22:55<briand>CDev: okay, after pouring thru the log file, it looks like the mfdb run prior to the crash was anecdotal.
22:56<briand>CDev: it finished. 00:59:59.467 mythfilldatabase run complete.
22:56<briand>CDev: then, 3 seconds later: 00:00:03.232 TVRec(1): Changing from None to RecordingOnly
22:57<briand>CDev: and : 00:00:03.254 TVRec(1): Changing from None to RecordingOnly
22:58<briand>and -that- is where it stopped. Never finished setting up to record the show (Nova on PBS, I think)
22:58<briand>so, maybe it got into the loop somewhere in that code.
22:59<briand>sry: log at 00:03.254 is: 00:00:03.254 TVRec(1): HW Tunder: 1->1
23:00<briand>next thing in the log is when I discovered/rebooted at 17:39:25.306
23:01<jd99>Chutt, I don't think I've been getting some user messages :-\ notably my own message
23:02[~]briand snickers.
23:02<Snow-Man>email address?
23:02<jd99>psunit@gmail.com
23:02<jd99>and i was bounced from commits, I had to reactivate that one for sure.
23:02<Snow-Man>Got a message-id?
23:02<jd99>for the commits?
23:02<Snow-Man>For the mail you sent that you didn't get..
23:03<jd99>oh... no, i can view it in the archives... or could I get that from message in my sent?
23:03<Snow-Man>It should be in your sent folder, heh.
23:04<Snow-Man>Mar 17 19:22:54 www postfix/smtp[3597]: 21DC0C24738: to=<psunit@gmail.com>, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[66.249.93.27]:25, conn_use=2, d
23:04<Snow-Man>elay=94, delays=0.62/78/0.16/15, dsn=5.2.2, status=bounced (host gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[66.249.93.27] said: 552 5.2.2 User over quota e1
23:04<Snow-Man>si5337955ugf (in reply to RCPT TO command))
23:04<jd99>Message-ID: <1cc03f380703161631h4d00e2f0l6942412758173da8@mail.gmail.com>
23:04<Snow-Man>nm, that's the error google's returning.
23:04<jd99>that one?
23:04<Snow-Man>"User over quota"
23:04<jd99>You are currently using 79 MB (2%) of your 2829 MB. that doesn't make sense to me.
23:04<Snow-Man>Bitch at google.
23:05<jd99>I will do just that.
23:05<hads>Ask for a refund :)
23:05<jd99>Maybe I will have it sent to my own email and have it forwarded there.
23:05<jd99>hads, :-)
23:05<briand>CDev: log snippet @ http://pastebin.ca/399666
23:06<jd99>its the least of my problems, but I'm hoping to get my backend running stable again and not getting replies (which there have been none yet :( ) to my problem aren't cool.
23:06<Snow-Man>That time is in UTC, so that would have been ~8.5 hrs ago.
23:06<Snow-Man>(for the last bounce I saw, which was at 19:22 UTC)
23:06<Snow-Man>yesterday, of course.
23:07<Snow-Man>Other bounces: 12:08, 11:18
23:08<Snow-Man>Looks like it was a systemic problem at google.
23:08<Snow-Man>I see at least 4 other cases right around that time.
23:09<Snow-Man>err, actually, alot more than that, hah
23:09<briand>Snow-Man: did u see chutt's msg a few minutes ago?
23:09<briand>Chutt bunches of people just got unsubscribed from commits and users (probably dev soon)
23:09<briand>Chutt all gmail, 'user over quota'
23:10<jd99>alright, i complained at google
23:11<Snow-Man>Actually, that hit 529 gmail addresses.
23:11<Snow-Man>yup.
23:11<Snow-Man>Anyhow, sleep time.
23:14<briand>g'nite
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---Logclosed Sun Mar 18 00:00:07 2007