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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2007-11-15

---Logopened Thu Nov 15 00:00:08 2007
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01:51[~]stuarta updates to head finally.
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04:52<gbee>well insurance has finally paid out for the scars from my fall, not quite as much as I'd have liked so it won't be paying for a new frontend :)
04:53<justinh>if I get my money back from the 'socket 479' CPU from selling it I might look for somewhere to donate to
04:53<stuarta>better than nothing
04:53<justinh>aye it is that
04:54<gbee>stuarta: aye definately that and still not a bad figure - £920
04:54<stuarta>as long as it covered costs.
05:08<justinh>gah. ebay's picture uploadery thing doesn't seem to like linux
05:11<gbee>odd
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05:17<justinh>I saved the file as me, why can't I upload it? bah. see if I can add it later
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05:35<justinh>turns out using the simple listing wizard was to blame
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10:27<justinh>duhhh I can't believe I've had emails asking me how to replace the background image. how the hell do people manage to install mythtv if they can't copy one file on top of another?!
10:27<stuarta>apt-get, yum
10:27[~]justinh sets up a new email filter
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12:26<gbee>sick of the preview scaling code now, apparently I'm not as good at maths as I thought I was
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12:38<bendailey>gbee: are you did you just commit 14872?
12:39<gbee>bendailey: depends ;)
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12:39<gbee>if you are going to report a bug, then no :)
12:40<bendailey>gbee: going to recompile right now will let "someone" know if I find anything :)
12:40<gbee>heh, ok
12:46[~]stuarta puts an illuminated flashing "he's here" sign above gbee
12:51<justinh>still no reply from heliocrap
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13:09<hendrixski>are there any existing python bindings in the mythtv code? I'm thinking of making some, but don't know whether to use SIP or SWIG, and would like an example to study.
13:09<justinh>hendrixski: think there are some in mytharchive
13:09[~]hendrixski checks mytharchive
13:09<justinh>argghhh shoite
13:09<justinh>my db is a bit broken
13:20<justinh>messed with lmsensors & the db connection went away
13:20<justinh>restarted the backend & mysql and all is pinky again
13:20<justinh>weird city
13:21<hendrixski>justinh, sweet, I see how python is called in mytharchive.... it creates a QString called commandline that is how one would call the script, then it calls system(commandline) ...
13:22<justinh>hendrixski: ouch
13:22<hendrixski>always kinda wondered how to do that.... but that's not exactly what I needed
13:23<hendrixski>justinh, why ouch?
13:23<justinh>I have python-a-phobia
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13:24<hendrixski>yeah a lot of people do ... that entire mandatory whitespace thing is kinda ridiculous
13:25<justinh>heh. I didn't even know about that
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13:27<hendrixski>yeah, it doesn't just suggest kindly that you use certain conventions, it forces them on you. But some people really like that...
13:28<hendrixski>alrighty, well, just checking that there aren't any python bindings to any of the mythtv libraries I should look at before trying to make one
13:28<hendrixski>thanks
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13:38<gbee>my objection to python is that I can't see the benefits of not just writing stuff in C++ to start with
13:38<laga>python is easier?
13:39<justinh>it's all foreign to me!
13:39<stuarta>i disagree
13:39<gbee>laga: that's the bit I have trouble understanding, everyone says that but I just don't believe it
13:39<laga>stuarta: for the beginner ;)
13:39<laga>gbee: it's very easy to just start hacking
13:39<justinh>laga: I am a beginner
13:39<stuarta>you calling me a beginner?
13:39<hendrixski>gbee, laga is right. Some kid can decide he wants to scan stuff from websiteX and in a week teach themselves enough python and write it
13:39[~]stuarta chuckles
13:39<laga>it uses dynmical typing for one thing
13:40<stuarta>which is exactly why people were taken out and shot for thinking basic was a programming language
13:40<gbee>hendrixski: I taught myself perl in a week and C++ in two
13:40<laga>with a bucket of coke and no sleep? :)
13:40[~]hendrixski thinks that gbee is smarter than the average bear
13:40<gbee>well the no sleep part is probably accurate ;)
13:41<gbee>hendrixski: I don't ... that's probably why I'm so confused
13:41<justinh>if it hadn't been for BASIC I'd prolly be whirring out c++ like a trooper now. that's my excuse & I'm sticking to it
13:42<gbee>I've played with python to fix up a trac plugin and I didn't see anything there which would make it easier to learn than C++
13:42<justinh>from all the code I've looked at I find I can read mythtv code but not python
13:43<gbee>now PHP is laughably easy and IMHO python looks to be around the same point on the learning curve as perl
13:43<hendrixski>gbee, what langauges did you know before teaching yourself C++?
13:43<gbee>hendrixski: I started at perl (if you ignore the basic that every kid learnt on Windows 3.10)
13:44<hendrixski>cool
13:44<justinh>anyway, I'll refuse to use and theme for any python plugins so whoever loses out most will lose out most
13:44<hendrixski>I started with Java... so then all of this *pointer stuff was lost on me for the longest time
13:45<gbee>perl and C/C++ have a lot in common, similar syntax and grammar - so it's probably fair to note that it would be easier for a perl programmer to migrate to C than for a python programmar
13:46<hendrixski>justinh, I don't think you'll see any python plugins anytime soon.. though it's inevitable that there will be more scripts put in at some point
13:47<gbee>PHP, which I now use for all web based stuff is again similar in style but because it is so well crafted for the single purpose of web content I probably wouldn't use anything else for that task, unless speed was an issue
13:47<hendrixski>what's faster for web than PHP?
13:47<gbee>Ruby etc just leaves me cold and for some reason I've never got along with Java
13:48<clever>i use php for web and a few cli tools(one of them curses based)
13:48[~]hendrixski loves java
13:48<clever>most of my php cli tools are just a few lines
13:48<clever>stuff that bash could probly do but i dont know bash that well
13:49<hendrixski>now, there are a few PHP segments in Mythtv
13:50<hendrixski>nothing in ruby or java* I'm assuming?
13:50<gbee>hendrixski: a well written precompiled application can probably leave php behind in terms of speed, though it all depends on the task and the presence of things like Zend Optimiser/Platform
13:50<clever>mythweb has javascript
13:50<hendrixski>hhmm
13:50<gbee>I used to hate javascript, but I've come to accept that nothing will replace it on the client side and I'm now pretty comfortable with it
13:51[~]hendrixski check mythweb really quick like
13:51<hendrixski>gbee, something will replace it....
13:51<hendrixski>javascript 2
13:51<gbee>hendrixski: :p
13:51<hendrixski>which isn't backwards compatable
13:51<hendrixski>so half of the web will break since MS has no intention of ever updating
13:51<stuarta>bathwater is dirty, lets throw out the baby too....
13:51<stuarta>typical
13:53<hendrixski>OH WOW.. that is some GOOD javascript code
13:53<hendrixski>comments and all
13:53<clever>lol
13:53<clever>only part ive realy edited in mythweb was some of the perl for the flash video player
13:53<clever>so that i could get errors ffmpeg spit out
13:53<clever>which just led me to a seg faulting ffmpeg
13:54<gbee>things like python scripts breaking every time the python version changes are a definite minus point, compare it to perl where code generally remains compatible for years
13:55<gbee>I hardly touch mythweb, mostly because xris and kormoc have it well covered, but also because it uses a design structure that I have a hard time getting my head around - can never find what I'm looking for
13:56<hendrixski>gbee, yeah, normally it's the full version number incriments that break stuff... like Qt3 to Qt4... but python seems to break between like 2.6 and 2.7
13:56<gbee>I've gravitated towards smarty (or if I must, clearsilver) for templating in php, but xris doesn't like them :(
13:56<clever>gbee: yeah i had trouble finding the right perl file to tweak
13:59<gbee>well no-one has complained that the latest preview changes broke anything, could be counting my eggs, but I might have got it right finally
14:03[~]clever trys to fix mythweb's streaming
14:03<hendrixski>wow... I haven't used mythweb yet, but seeing how legable the code is in there, makes me want to tinker with it :-)
14:03<clever>lol
14:04<hendrixski>both the javascript and php files, man
14:05<hendrixski>as soon as I tinker with the python bindings idea a little bit :-p
14:05<laga>yay :)
14:06<justinh>nay :(
14:06<justinh>< devil's advocate :)
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15:03<gnome42>Does anyone use playgroups? I have migrated the AutoCommSkip/Notify settings into playgroups. Are there any other playback settings that people think would be useful to have in playgroups?
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15:29<gbee>gnome42: fill/aspect would be great in playgroups
15:29<gbee>either that or we add intelligent detection for selecting the correct fill/aspect settings
15:30<gbee>sampling along the edges of the image for black pixels etc
15:39<gnome42>gbee: yeah, fill/aspect makes sense. I'll look into it. Thanks for the feedback
15:40<justinh>films screened in cinemascope might just knacker that one
15:43<gbee>justinh: possibly, but I'm mostly imagining the fill scaling kicking it when we detect black borders on all sides
15:43<justinh>ah
15:43<justinh>that'd be nift
15:43<justinh>it always annoys me when 4:3 channels show widescreen material in letterboxes
15:44<justinh>so myth pillarboxes the 4:3 stream which contains the letterboxed 14:9 show :-\
15:44<gbee>yeah, like Virgin is currently doing with most of their output
15:44<justinh>according to the nerdy guys on digitalspy they plan to go wide eventually
15:44<gbee>the half fill is good for virgin content :)
15:44<gnome42>gbee: hmm, playgroups are global (not per frontend). Is that a problem for fill/aspect? I don't use that feature. I guess the question is: Does the selection of the fill/aspect setting depend on the recording or the hardware it's played back on?
15:45<gbee>yep, I read that at the time they launched
15:45[~]justinh is tempted to go for another AOpen socket M mobo & core2 duo M combination
15:45<laga>justinh: working that well?
15:46<gbee>gnome42: aspect maybe, fill probably isn't an issue, but I'm not sure to be honest
15:46<justinh>laga: not working at all yet. new cpu should arrive tomorrow. don't get me started on the 'two types of socket 479' crap again
15:46<laga>rotfl
15:46<laga>k ;)
15:47[~]justinh pats the stress lump on his neck down
15:48<gnome42>gbee: yeah, I'm not sure too.
15:48<justinh>laga: consider this: core2 duo 1.83Ghz mobo, CPU & RAM for under £100. pretty damn tempting to me
15:49<justinh>who cares if it only has Intel graphics? I don't play games that need 3d. got the xbox for that
15:49<GreyFoxx>p
15:49<GreyFoxx>oops
15:50<justinh>and it'll make for a quieter room in here. you never know I might stay calm for longer :P
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15:52<justinh>gbee: you know the other day when that ubuntu nick'd guy was showing off that video & you said that looked like alphapulse - I didn't realise it could do granular effects like that
15:52<justinh>I thought it was just 'fade in, fade out'
15:53<Chutt>what video?
15:54<justinh>http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KFOMxYGOMMI
15:54<justinh>ahh I just worked it out
15:54<gbee>it was just fade in/out, but he was using an image with a radial alpha fill over the time
15:54<gbee>time? err top
15:55<gbee>actually two, one on the left, other on the right
15:55<gbee>at least that's what I thought he had done
15:55<justinh>looked like a reason to take alphapulse out of the code IMHO ;)
15:56<Chutt>why would that be a reason to take it out?
15:56<justinh>just kidding, chutt :)
15:57<justinh>so the alphapulse thing can be used to mask images as well? might have to revisit playing with that
15:58<Chutt>all it does is adjust the alpha, it'll work for any ui type.
15:58<justinh>that's what I thought, but that vid doesn't seem to work like that. I'll have to ask I guess
15:58<Chutt>sure it does
15:59<Chutt>it's just adjusting the alpha of a blue image that's on top of the text.
15:59<justinh>doh. pardon my being thick again
16:00<Chutt>that itself has a non-constant alpha/etc
16:00<gbee>I was considering using it in the animation effect I want on my main menu
16:00<Chutt>could do the same thing with just an animation set of images, too
16:00<Chutt>but that'd use memory
16:00<Chutt>or it wouldn't be _that_ hard to add another effect to do the same thing natively
16:01<gbee>aye, that's why I was looking at using it, a cheap animation effect - although it can use more CPU than the normal image animation
16:01<justinh>been trying to come up with some kind of small animation loop that doesn't involve a rotating logo
16:02<gbee>it's also 100x easier than creating dozens of duplicate images with subtle changes
16:02<justinh>gbee: there's no getting away from it, you need a proper animation program to do that kind of thing unless you're great at animating in GIMP
16:02<justinh>whether that be Blender or whatever
16:03<justinh>been trying to get a highlight to move along a text path in a 3d package
16:03<gbee>justinh: I wouldn't want to try, instead I've got this idea which just takes advantage of alphapulse to give the impression that a button is flashing
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16:04<gbee>haven't done it yet, so it might not work in the theme
16:05<gbee>I'd only be adding the animation to keep with my plan of showing off what is possible
16:05<justinh>if there's ever a <describe how the theme element appears or disappears> tag, I doubt I'll ever come near finishing much
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16:39<gbee>it's a real shame, but you can't overlay images above one that has an alphapulse
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17:09<Anynomous>I need kernel 2.6.23 for Feisty ... can I download a deb somewhere or do I have to compile?
17:09|-|catinpan [n=nncattel@ip65-44-182-162.z182-44-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:09<Anynomous>I need to get HVR 3000 running
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17:10[~]justinh points at the channel topic
17:11<Anynomous>sorry ...
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21:10<xris>hmm, nifty. jira gives free licenses to OSS projects.
21:10<xris>wonder how it would work for mythtv
21:12<xris>oh well. time to go home.
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---Logclosed Fri Nov 16 00:00:42 2007