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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2007-11-16

---Logopened Fri Nov 16 00:00:42 2007
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03:06[~]stuarta decides to do a bit of valgrind'n for fun
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05:26<stuarta>ah well, valgrinding while attempting to record doesn't work so well
05:26<stuarta>driver buffer overflows often.
05:26<stuarta>still, it'll be interesting to see the results
05:27<stuarta>haven't valgrind'd the backend for ages.
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08:34<gbee>not sure that it's worth pursuing, but Dolby offer a free (beer) license for the use of their logo in EPGs
08:35<gbee>if we wanted to use the proper logo, instead of just suggesting the approximate shape, then we apparently just need to ask
08:36<gbee>of course they have strict terms on how the imagery is used and they insist that you get the artwork from them instead of attempting to draw it yourself
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08:42<stuarta>to big a black hole / slippery slope if you ask me.
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08:44<ifvoid>hello
08:44<ifvoid>woops, ECHAN
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08:54<gbee>stuarta: aye, it's dubious
08:55<gbee>on the other hand though, coming up with an alternative that is easily recognisable but doesn't infringe on their trademarks is difficult
08:55<stuarta>at least by using a vague blob we aren't using their trademark and thus aren't beholded to their reams of requirements
08:55<stuarta>heh
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08:57<gbee>the solution I've settled on is possibly less inflamatory than the default which uses the backwards D, but looks like the successor to Closed Captioning (CC) ;)
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09:01<stuarta>technically i think that's how they came up with their symbol...
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11:04<SanMehat>ugh. so much work
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11:51<laga>gbee: i'm struggling with the xmltv dtd again ;) the host of, say, a talk-show, is that a "presenter"?
12:06<gbee>laga: yes
12:06<laga>thanks
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12:50<gbee>xris: is doubling the size of the default preview thumbnail generated by mythtv going to cause you problems in mythweb?
12:51<xris>shouldn't
12:51<xris>I can just set mythweb to grab via xml
12:51<gbee>ok
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12:55<gbee>the original defaults were devised before we had widescreen themes and HD resolutions, so in many cases the images are now being scaled up instead of down, with the associated drop in quality
13:16<xris>ick
13:16<xris>yeah, best to make them bigger, then. heh
13:16<xris>I think mythweb might already use the xml stuff by default, anyway
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13:22<gbee>doubling the width+height is just arbitrary, but should be an improvement
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13:32<vegai>Hey...
13:33<vegai>Is there a usual reason why mythtv gets signal 0% and fails to lock on channel
13:33<vegai>when both tzap and mplayer succeed in the same
13:33<janneg>vegai: please read the topic
13:33<vegai>Oh, sorry. Too late.
13:33<vegai>IRC should have an undo.
13:34<janneg>life should have an undo
13:34[~]laga gives out free razors
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14:01<brunes>Anyone here have Myth installed on a mac mini? I have been looking at the HOWTO in the Wiki and it looks attractive. I am just wondering - what is the min CPU mini I should get that can handle decoding HD content?
14:02<brunes>If I got the 1.66 Ghz core 2 duo would that handle it/
14:02<gbee>brunes: #mythtv-users
14:02<brunes>oh shit sorry gbee
14:02<gbee>np
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14:20<vegai>might be an idea to move #mythtv-users here and have a locked #mythtv-dev
14:22<kormoc>vegai, it's been talked about to death, it was decided not to be done, and bringing it up again doesn't help at all
14:22<janneg>you are not the first suggesting that
14:22<janneg>but we like it the way it is
14:23[~]hads giggles at laga's razors
14:27<vegai>aye..
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14:35<hads>janneg: All the files that make mythvideo segfault appear to be identified as mplayer as DX50
14:36<hads>But not all files identified as DX50, some will play.
14:36<hads>All of these are avi
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14:41<janneg>hads: I hadn't time to look at it
14:42<hads>No bother at all, I was just doing some testing and thought it might be of interest.
14:42<janneg>sure
14:43<hads>I've just about sampled a directory of 50 avis and haven't found any that make the segfault happen that aren't DX50
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15:10<hads>I'll try and create a reasonably sized clip and post a link to it on trac. #4061 appears to be the same issue.
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15:24<cmoates>So I found this bug in BackendQueryDiskSpace, and I wanted to try and provide a patch for it, but I'm not sure what a good approach would be to solve the problem. Am I in the right place to get some ideas, possibly?
15:25<laga>probably :)
15:25<laga>if you don't get an answer in here, try the mailing list
15:25<cmoates>It centers around the grouping of disks
15:26<cmoates>There's a little algo in there to try and determine if two "disks" are really the same, just mounted on different backends
15:26<cmoates>The problem is, I added two brand new identical (empty) disks to a backend, and it thinks they are the same
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15:26<cmoates>Since their capacity and free space are the same
15:26<cmoates>As soon as I add files to one, and make them differ in free space, they split up properly
15:27<cmoates>So it's a race condition, but one that occurs upon setup, so I thought it was probably worth trying to fix
15:27<cmoates>The issue is that I'm having difficulty coming up with another "stat" to compare against, since things like mount point, UUID (not available on NFS mounts), and device name would vary on different backends
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18:16<xris>hmm, jira is looking very cool....
18:16<xris>and free for OSS usage.
18:23<rooaus>cmoates: A real dirty hack might be to write a few bytes to one FS and retest, not the prettiest solution though.
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18:29<gbee>xris: is there a trac migration facility?
18:30<cmoates>rooaus, yeah, I just recently considered that
18:30<cmoates>But, I think the isLocal flag might actually work here
18:30<cmoates>Right now it compares free space and capacity
18:31<cmoates>But if two "disks" are both local, then they are very highly likely to be different, I'd think
18:32<cmoates>So if (space is same) and (capacity is same) and (disks are both local) then I can' think of anything (aside from the loop device) that would cause the same filesystem to show up like that
18:32<cmoates>maybe in a true clustered fs
18:34<rooaus>cmoates: true
18:34<cmoates>woohoo it worked :)
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18:34<cmoates>So then the only question is
18:35<cmoates>Is there a case where adding the "are both disks local?" test breaks some other aggregation that we wouldn't want
18:35<cmoates>I'm assuming SMB and NFS shares get that flag set to 0
18:35<cmoates>I guess I should actually look to make sure
18:37<xris>gbee: not sure, haven't looked yet. Would certainly need one if we were to even start thinking about using it.
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19:21<Captain_Murdoch>cmoates: is it really that big of a deal? As soon as you get anything on that drive then they separate out as normal. The problem is there isn't a single way to identify unique filesystems across local and remote. We could write out identifier files to directories, but that could make things worse. what if 2 directories are mounted off the same filesystem, in that case we'd assume that there was double the free space. That's t
19:21<Captain_Murdoch>ft it simple and only use the total and used space numbers in my comparisons currently.
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19:31<cmoates>Well, yes
19:31<cmoates>Which is why the added check I suggested of "are both disks also local" might help
19:31<cmoates>While leaving the other comparisons alone
19:32<cmoates>However, I could see that intermittently disks could have the same amount of free space
19:32<cmoates>not just when they are initialized
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19:32<cmoates>(by random chance)
19:32<cmoates>And is it a huge deal? No, which is why I wanted to submit a working patch as opposed to just a bug report :)
19:33<Wickedboy>did anyone in here ever try to run a backend in xen ?
19:36<Captain_Murdoch>Wickedboy: sounds like a -users question. :)
19:37<Wickedboy>okay, sorry :)
19:37<Captain_Murdoch>cmoates: I'm not understanding the "both are local" check. what's that buy you?
19:38<cmoates>Well, I'm making an assumption
19:38<cmoates>If you have your list of disks, and one was exported, so it's remote on on system, and local on the other, then it'd appear int he list twice, and would need to be deduplicated
19:38<cmoates>If two disks appear to have the same attributes, but both are local disk, then they shouldn't (can't?) be the same disk
19:39<cmoates>You might be able to pull some nasty trick using -o loop, or something
19:39<Captain_Murdoch>cmoates: they can be if you have 2 dirs on the same disk
19:39<Captain_Murdoch>some people use recording groups to separate out recordings into different directories on the same disk.
19:40<cmoates>Yeah, see, that's what I didn't consider :/
19:40<cmoates>Which is why I asked earlier :)
19:40<Captain_Murdoch>ie, they have a "Simpsons" group where all Simpons recordings go into a subdir.
19:40<cmoates>Yeah, I understand what you're saying
19:40<cmoates>And you could potentially limit by storage group, but
19:40<cmoates>they could still make two dirs on one disk and place both dirs into the same storage group
19:41<Captain_Murdoch>:) no problem, just trying to see if there was a better way to do it. if you can think of anything, I'm open to changing it, but there were three of us looking that code over before it went into SVN and none of us could think of anything better so I put it in as-is.
19:41<cmoates>yeah
19:41<cmoates>I have thought about it all afternoon, and that's what I came up with, and I was worried I might have overlooked something
19:41<cmoates>If they are local, you could get the UUID of the device, I suppose
19:42<cmoates>That might introduce dependencies though
19:42<Captain_Murdoch>when we had only one dir per backend, we used a flag file in the directory and if a slave saw the file that the backend wrote, it knew the storage was shared. that is much more complicated when you have multiple dirs and multiple filesystems so I didn't even try to tackle that because the benefit was so low.
19:42<cmoates>right
19:42<cmoates>It came up for me because I have three disks which got grouped, and initially I suspected user error
19:43<cmoates>Since storage groups are new to me, and all
19:43<Captain_Murdoch>you could possibly check UUID if you put a "#ifdef __linux__" around it like I did with the remote vs local check since there are different if statements for Linux vs OSX.
19:43<cmoates>I noticed that
19:43<cmoates>But I also saw in the coding conventions that it's highly discouraged
19:45<Captain_Murdoch>yeah, we don't normally like different codepaths like that. I haven't tested it, but I wonder if it would still work if both of those checks were done under both systems.
19:46<Captain_Murdoch>probably should delete that FIXME there also since I think nigel or someone gave me the right strings for the CONFIG_DARWIN section.
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19:47<cmoates>That FIXME made me smile, I'll have you know :)
19:49<Captain_Murdoch>lots of other things I wanted to do with Storage Groups, but the current code has been sufficing for my needs very nicely so I never got around to implementing the rest of my TODO.
19:49<TelnetManta>can anyone help me figure out why my mysql wont start all of a sudden?
19:49<cmoates>#mythtv-users would be the place for that, TelnetManta
19:50<TelnetManta>oh, opps. Thought I was there
19:53<cmoates>So, libblkid, which we'd need to calculate uuid's, is part of e2fsprogs
19:53<cmoates>would that constitute a "new dependency" for myth on linux?
19:56<Captain_Murdoch>is that info even available to non-root?
19:56<cmoates>good question
19:57<cmoates>It appears to be
19:57<Captain_Murdoch>fsid isn't filled in by statfs I believe, I looked into using that from what I remember.
20:00<cmoates>" Nobody knows what f_fsid is supposed to contain (but see below).
20:00<cmoates>"
20:00<cmoates>nice :)
20:01<Captain_Murdoch>there may be another way. you could stat the two dirs and check the st_dev fields in the stat structs to see if they match.
20:04<Captain_Murdoch>that's how df in busybox finds the filesystem that you're doing a df of if you give it a subdir name.
20:05<cmoates>That does appear to work
20:05<cmoates>I get three different st_dev's for the three devices
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20:07<Captain_Murdoch>do you have any nfs mounts to test with? you could check to see if you get different st_dev values for multiple mounts of the same fs and/or if you get the same value for st_dev on multiple servers mounting the same remote fs.
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20:07<cmoates>Yeah, I do, let me mount some stuff up and test
20:08<lightning>quick Q, just installed mythtv. I do not have a capture card yet but am wanting to use the video portion to play my dvd collection. I have all of them in sub folders of 1 folder. How can I get all of the dvd's imported?
20:08<Captain_Murdoch>not sure why I didn't think of that before. was sitting here and all the suddent it hit me that 'df' when run as non-root knows what filesystem I'm trying to look at so there had to be a way. :)
20:08<Captain_Murdoch>lightning: see /topic
20:08<lightning>doh, i'm sorry
20:08<cmoates>And it makes perfect sense, too :)
20:08<Captain_Murdoch>not too bright.... (j/k had to say it given the nick)
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20:10<cmoates>hehe
20:15<cmoates>st_dev matches on two dirs exported from the same nfs share
20:17<Captain_Murdoch>I'm wondering if the st_dev is the nfs fsid, which would mean we'd have dups if you have multiple nfs servers, but as long as 2 nfs servers don't have disks with the same exact disk space numbers then it would be OK. this is still getting more accurate, just would still leave an obscure case where it would fail.
20:17<Captain_Murdoch>are the st_dev values for the nfs share really low? like 1 or 2 depending on how many nfs shares you have off your server.
20:17<cmoates>19
20:17<cmoates>is the one I got returned
20:17<cmoates>I can create a few more shares on a couple more boxes to test further
20:18[~]Captain_Murdoch writes a quick program to test his 4 filesystems across 2 nfs servers.
20:19[~]Captain_Murdoch realizes he can just run this --> /usr/bin/stat -c "%d" /path/to/some/directory
20:20<cmoates>Well, you realized it before I did, I did write said program :/
20:20<Captain_Murdoch>was about to create a file called stat.c then did a "which stat" and subsequent "man stat" :)
20:22<Captain_Murdoch>different values for the same nfs share mounted on different clients.
20:22<cmoates>hrm
20:22<cmoates>I get 769 for two different / partitions, on different machines
20:22<cmoates>but not a third
20:23<Captain_Murdoch>this st_dev check would only be used if the disk space numbers were equal though. I wouldn't use it if they were different.
20:23<cmoates>I suppose if you only do the stat check after you do the other check that's already in there, you'd reduce the edge case, but not to zero
20:23<cmoates>yeah
20:23<cmoates>exactly
20:24<cmoates>But, the st_dev numbers don't match when the same dir is local vs mounted nfs
20:24<cmoates>But maybe that doesn't matter
20:24<cmoates>Do you aggregate the disks from all backends for this list before you consolidate them?
20:25<cmoates>Or do you consolidate before you aggregate?
20:25<cmoates>s/consolidate/deduplicate
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20:26<Captain_Murdoch>gets data from all backends then checks which filesystems seem the same.
20:27<cmoates>So if you had foo exported and locally mounted on A, and foo was mounted on B, their st_dev wouldn't match
20:27<Captain_Murdoch>so the master doesn't have access to the slave's st_dev numbers, that would have to be passed back from the slave's GetDiskSpace() call.
20:27<cmoates>yeah
20:28<cmoates>And both would report them as a file system
20:28<Captain_Murdoch>but in that case the master would see them as the same since their disk space values match.
20:29<cmoates>Sure, but it would yield the same result as two local identical disks
20:29<cmoates>disk space equal, but st_dev's different
20:29<Captain_Murdoch>I would only do the check on local filesystems probably.
20:30<cmoates>That'd be fair
20:30<cmoates>I dunno, maybe I'm way off, but it seems to me, as storage groups hit mainstream, that more folks are likely to use them in place of striped disks
20:31<cmoates>I know that is why I did it; I don't lose the disk to parity for raid 5 and I don't lose the whole FS with a single falure like raid 1
20:31<Captain_Murdoch>yes, there seem to be lots of posts from people saying they've switched to trunk just for Storage Groups. :)
20:31<cmoates>myself included :)
20:31<cmoates>You did good
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20:32<Captain_Murdoch>I was almost tempted to make a version of 0.20.x with Storage Groups as a non-official version, but I couldn't put it through the paces enough since I run trunk on my production systems.
20:32<cmoates>eh, .21 will come soon enough
20:33<Captain_Murdoch>Storage Groups are almost a year old though. :)
20:33<cmoates>Wow, that long
20:38<cmoates>Alright, I hacked in the stat stuff, now to compile and see if it works as intended
20:38<Captain_Murdoch>11/30/2006 according to trac. I knew it was coming up. I remember wanting to get it in so it would have any bugs worked out before I went on vacation. now looking at the revision log I see only 2 minor updates to that file and they were over 9 months later so I guess the few of us worked most of the bugs out before it even went into SVN.
20:39<cmoates>nice
20:40<xris>gbee: looks easy enough to migrate from trac to jira
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20:43<GreyFoxx>Jira ?
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20:49<cmoates>It's a java based competitor to trac, afaict
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20:52<xris>cmoates: project/issue tracking.
20:52<xris>and has plugins to code browser and changeset signoff.
20:52<xris>been looking at it for work, but they give it away to free for OSS projects.
20:52<xris>and it looks pretty cool
20:53<cmoates>free for OSS is always nice
20:53<xris>yeah
20:53<xris>but non-free software used for OSS development can rub some people the wrong way
20:53<xris>"non-Free"
20:54<xris>still, it looks pretty nice.
20:54<xris>does a LOT of stuff that trac can't
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21:07<rooaus>xris: The workflow is a nice feature and was added to trac in 0.11 as well.
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21:12<xris>rooaus: yeah.
21:13<xris>jira's strength is in the code signoff stuff (part of another product called crucible) and in its maturity compared to trac.
21:13<xris>the more I play with it, the less I think it's much better than trac for mythtv.. but way better for work stuff
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21:16<rooaus>xris: Ah, was trying to find the signoff stuff on the Jira website.
21:22<rooaus>Has there been any discussion about creating a "MythTV" workflow? If done well it could help the devs out.
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---Logclosed Sat Nov 17 00:00:17 2007