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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2007-11-17

---Logopened Sat Nov 17 00:00:17 2007
00:02<jams>gbee- around?
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04:35<gbee>jams: ?
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05:58<Cameron_Calver>Hello can someone tell me if mythtv is any point without a tv card?
05:59<laga>Cameron_Calver: #mythtv-users
05:59<Cameron_Calver> well?
05:59<rooaus>Cameron_Calver: I am sure they can in #mythtv-users :)
05:59<Cameron_Calver>ha ok then
05:59<Cameron_Calver>thx cya
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09:03<avenger>jemand da?
09:04<dr_lulz>#mythtv-de?
09:04<avenger>oh, ok, i sorry, thx
09:05<laga>no wai
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09:45<gbee>maybe I should learn German
09:46<briand>i don't know german, but I think he asked if he could ask a question.
09:46<briand>that's based mostly on intuition, but partly on the french I learned in high school
09:48<gbee>briand: that's what I thought it was, because jemand seemed similar to the French verb Demander
09:49<gbee>but google translate it as "Anyone there?"
09:51<laga> /me awards 100 points to gbee
09:52<laga>looks like we get to distribute some test cards created by burosch with mythbuntu. wee.
09:53<gbee>cool
09:54<briand>gbee: hmm. okay, so my logic wasn't all that flawed, if you came to the same conclusion. ;)
09:59<gbee>what does the object in this button look like? http://www.miffteevee.co.uk/imagebin/object.png
10:02<briand>a two-drawer filing cabinet
10:05<gbee>thanks, it's not just me then ... sometimes wonder whether the stuff I'm drawing is only recognisable to me because I know what it was supposed to be :)
10:07<briand>stuff I draw usually *is* only recognizable by me (because I know what I was trying to draw). Let it sit for a couple months, though, and I'll be just as clueless as anybody else as to what it is supposed to be. (I am _not_ an artist)
10:09<clever[rev]>ive modified the flv code within mythweb so it wont crash
10:09<clever[rev]>but i still dont have sound
10:09<clever[rev]>what might i edit to make it non deaf?
10:09<dr_lulz>gbee: easily recognizable, but IMO it looks a bit distorted cause of the isometric perspective
10:10<laga>clever[rev]: install ffmpeg with mp3 support
10:11<clever[rev]> DE mp3 MPEG audio layer 3
10:11<clever[rev]>looks like it has mp3 support
10:12<clever[rev]>or is that just decoding support?
10:16<gbee>shortened the length a little, looks better I think? http://www.miffteevee.co.uk/imagebin/object2.png
10:17<clever[rev]>yeah that looks more normal then the other
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10:24<gbee>clever[rev]: you have sound in flash generally?
10:25<clever[rev]>i can hear things in youtube
10:25<clever[rev]>one of the more odd things is that the mythweb flv player doesnt work in firefox(only IE)
10:26<gbee>ok, so it's probably down to lack of mp3 encoding support in mythweb, unless ffmpeg is choking on audio of your recordings for some reason
10:26<clever[rev]>im converting the recordings to pcm/rawvideo before ffmpeg gets ahold of it
10:26<clever[rev]>because ffmpeg WAS segfaulting on the .nuv files
10:26<laga>gbee: why would mythweb have to support mp3 encoding?
10:26<gbee>clever[rev]: can't explain that one, works fine in firefox on linux (64bit firefox even)
10:27<gbee>laga: err, ffmpeg ... was a typo
10:27<clever[rev]>it tells me i need to upgrade the flash plugin
10:27<laga>k :)
10:27<clever[rev]>needs the flash player ver 9
10:27<gbee>clever[rev]: ahh, have you tried upgrading? :)
10:27<clever[rev]>i upgraded exactly as it said
10:27<clever[rev]>and it still tells me i need version 9
10:28<gbee>guess firefox is still loading an earlier version of the plugin from somewhere
10:28<clever[rev]>yeah
10:28<clever[rev]>had the same problem with firefox on linux
10:29<clever[rev]>ffmpeg is building atm(with lame mp3 output on)
10:29<gbee>it uses user and global config/storage locations, e.g. /home, /var - the stuff in /home usually overrides the global stuff
10:30<clever[rev]>yeah manualy extracting the flashplugin.so and sticking it in ~/.mozila/plugins/ fixed it in linux
10:30<clever[rev]>but windows doesnt have a ~/ directory
10:34<clever[rev]>flash upgrade seems to have worked now...
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11:08<clever[rev]>woot
11:08<clever[rev]>mythweb flash player works great now
11:09<clever[rev]>seems to have some sync problems but i cant expect that much from flash
11:19<clever[rev]>gbee: patch created, http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4181
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12:05<williammanda> I did an update and restarted my computer....
12:05<williammanda> I'm getting a different desktop...
12:06<williammanda> i have a panel with a star
12:06<williammanda>how can i fix this?
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12:11<darkstorm>someone any idea what to do if mythtv "lags"?
12:12<darkstorm>i press the "key down" and it takes more than 3 sec that the cursor goes down
12:14<visit0r>#mythtv-users
12:14<visit0r>but this (unresponsive UI) is a long-standing issue with mythtv, might get better with qt4
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12:22<gbee>http://www.miffteevee.co.uk/themes/metallurgy.html
12:29<laga>nice menu
12:30<cmoates>nice
12:36<gbee>think I'll offer a range of colour schemes for the buttons etc, the red was my initial idea but I'm bored of it already and a blue scheme looks better
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12:45<jams>gbee- have you themed mythgallery yet?
12:46<jams>i'm curious what blackhole does in the view container. If you remove it gallery fails to load, but I can't find what it really does.
12:46<gbee>jams: no, just mythmusic so far ... progress is slow because I keep going back and tweaking things :)
12:46<jams>k
12:46<gbee>jams: I'll take a look
12:47<gbee>may be something that was added but never used, or made redundant by later changes
12:47<gbee>I've found one or two things like that
12:48<jams>i was hoping it would i could use it to limit the viewing area when displaying a picture.
12:49<jams>i also have a two line movietime patch for ya
12:51<jams>should make a ticket for it now while i'm thinking about it.
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13:00<jams>patch submited
13:09<cmoates>Woo, I think my patch for the identical disk space bug is ready
13:10<cmoates>Question though; comments in the code seem to be really light, and I'm a pretty heavy commenter. Are they discouraged or just not done that often?
13:11<Dibblah>Discouraged.
13:11<laga>why?!
13:11<Dibblah>If a code _needs_ comments to be understandable, the code needs rewritten.
13:11<Dibblah>IMHO.
13:11<cmoates>Hm
13:11<cmoates>It's not that it needs it, but I've always felt like it's easier to read english first, then code
13:12<cmoates>Maybe that's just me though
13:12<laga>cmoates: it's you and i who think that ;)
13:12<Dibblah>And when the code doesn't actually match the description?
13:12<cmoates>Then the last patch that changed the code from the description should have been rejected
13:12<Dibblah>Anyway. That's just from long term reading of the code.
13:12<Dibblah>It's probably not the opinion of all the devs.
13:12<cmoates>sure
13:13<cmoates>Well, I'll submit the patch with the comments, if they want to remove them, that's fine
13:13<Dibblah>If you want to add comments - Add them. It's unlikely your patch will be rejected because of them.
13:13[~]Dibblah is, however, not a real dev.
13:13<Dibblah>So please feel free to ignore me ;)
13:13<cmoates>bah
13:14<cmoates>I agree that code that is hard to read should be refactored when possible
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13:15<shaggyoaf>Hi, everybody. I'm setting up a myth box and I'm a little confused about getting TV listings (US)
13:16<shaggyoaf>I've got the debian xmltv and xmltv-utils packages installed
13:16<laga>shaggyoaf: #mythtv-users
13:16<shaggyoaf>laga, oh, right
13:16<shaggyoaf>laga, sorry :(
13:17<cmoates>gbee, I kinda like the green
13:22<gbee>if I can find a way, then I'd ultimately like users to be able to chose their own colours
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13:55<gbee>there are over 240 menu entries in theme.xml ... that's 240 watermarks or icons if you were to create a unique image for each
13:56<cmoates>That's more than 4.
13:56<cmoates>A lot more
13:56<gbee>think we need to audit the menus
13:58<jams>gbee- some of those are overlap between classic & default
13:58<jams>but yeah there are alot. I had to make a spreadsheet to keep myself sane
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13:59<gbee>cmoates: commenting is good, so long as it's not excessive, better as Dibblah says to only comment code where it needs explaining, that might not always be because the code is badly written
14:00<gbee>jams: aye, menu overlap is one problem
14:03<gbee>cmoates: to put it another way, don't explain WHAT the code does, but you might need to explain WHY it is doing that
14:03<cmoates>Sure
14:04<cmoates>I pared my comments down a bit, as I'm getting ready to attach the patch to a ticket
14:04<gbee>we're working towards a point where all classes and functions have doxygen formatted comments, but in-function comments are not that common
14:04<Anynomous>We consider using MythTV as Mediacenter .. with a HVR3000 (hauppauge) ... only the analog tuner is known to work. How is our chance of success .. I checked the wiki and the card isn't mentioned!
14:05<cmoates>Anynomous, that's a question for #mythtv-users
14:06<Anynomous>Sorry, yes I just saw that.
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14:44<clever[rev]>gbee: how/where is the doxygen comments extracted?
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14:52<cmoates>Captain_Murdoch, I attached that patch to ticket 4179; it appears to work with the stat() stuff like we discussed
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16:10<xris>who is "paul g"? (/me occasionally curses not knowing real names in here)
16:20<clever[rev]>xris: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4181
16:21<clever[rev]>a patch i made which fixes my ffmpeg segfaulting on NUV files
16:21<clever[rev]>you could modify it to use that method based on a option
16:22<xris>not going to change a proof-of-concept that wasn't intended to work with nuv files
16:23<clever[rev]>ahh
16:23<clever[rev]>it works great the way i have it
16:23<clever[rev]>and a ffmpeg rebuild fixed mp3 so now it works perfectly(except seeking)
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16:24<xris>except that it doesn't cache, doesn't support seeking, and mplayer doesn't *actually* support nuv files
16:24<cyberpass>anyone know if cableCARD works on linux yet?
16:24<clever[rev]>mplayer plays nuv files without any problems at all(but cant seek)
16:25<cmoates>cyberpass, it doesn't, and it's a question for #mythtv-users
16:25<clever[rev]>with some trial&error i can probly hack up seeking support
16:25<clever[rev]>ive got a rought idea how the seektable in mysql works
16:26<clever[rev]>mark seems to be seconds into the file and the other one is probly bytes in for that point
16:26<clever[rev]>then the normal chanid&starttime pair
16:28<clever[rev]>i can probly get php to output the video from a certain offset in(in seconds)
16:28<xris>clever[rev]: it's easier for me to wait for Captain_Murdoch to finish updating mythtranscode to export flv files...
16:28<clever[rev]>so you could http://server/path?offset=60
16:29<clever[rev]>the server side work for flv seeking(generating in real time) would be easy for me
16:29<clever[rev]>but to make the flash player ask for data starting at second ...
16:29<clever[rev]>never done flash programing before
16:30<xris>that's why caching is important
16:30<clever[rev]>if you kept the flv files laying arround you could use apache's byte-range stuff to fetch a part
16:31<clever[rev]>but then the flash prog needs some kind of seek table instead of just another http request asking for second x onward
16:32<xris>yup
16:32<clever[rev]>also you wont be able to seek past where its output to the flv with that method
16:32<clever[rev]>if the file is 3% converted and you try to seek halfway thru
16:32<xris>but I can't do that until there's something other than the web server controlling the encode process.
16:32<xris>thus, mythtranscode doing the work, and a jobqueue entry with a special "start immediately" flag
16:33<clever[rev]>the perl could spawn off a mini deamon under the apache username
16:33<clever[rev]>to control it
16:33<clever[rev]>or having flv output on mythtranscode(and set not to delete original)
16:33<laga>or you could just wait for captain murdoch...
16:33<cmoates>hehe
16:33<xris>you don't want to leave a zombie process around while it encodes files.
16:33<clever[rev]>but that needs mythtv to support keeping multiple versions of the file(flv and normal)
16:34<xris>clever[rev]: yes, which it already does
16:34<xris>well, in Captain_Murdoch's branch
16:34<clever[rev]>ffmpeg will have trouble dumping video to stdout when you stop the browser end
16:34<xris>I have more important things I'm supposed to be working on lately (mostly for SD), so I'm content to be patient.
16:34<clever[rev]>which would kill the rest id think
16:34<clever[rev]>where is Captain_Murdoch's branch?
16:35<xris>on his computer
16:35<xris>not checked in because it's not ready yet
16:36<clever[rev]>ahhh
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16:58<purserj>hey, are there any tutes on developing for myth?
16:59[~]xris wonders what whistles have to do with coding
17:00<purserj>whistling while you work?
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17:01[~]kormoc wonders what a chocolate has to do with coding
17:01<laga>hm, chocolate
17:01<xris>kormoc: doesn't chocolate apply to everything?
17:01<kormoc>Well, not when it's on development :P
17:01<kormoc>it should be in the developers, not on them
17:01<laga>but cocoa is an ingredient in coding and in chocolate
17:02<xris>purserj: no real tutorials for myth development
17:03<purserj>xris: tah, I'll bumble my way through
17:04<laga>purserj: i'd suggest you look through the mailing list archives for mythtv-dev
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17:16<gbee>purserj: depends what you are after, there is a coding standards guide, there is code documentation and if you are looking for a job then there is Isaac's feature wishlist
17:17<gbee>if you are wondering what the proceedure is for submitting patches, there is guide on that too
17:19<gbee>but there isn't a general guide on developing for mythtv, it's pretty simple really - you write a patch submit it for review then it either gets committed, refused or bounced back to you for improvement
17:19<purserj>gbee: tah
17:20<purserj>so there isn't really a "I'm a newb let's walk through developing a plugin" sort of deal
17:21<gbee>if you want your work comitted and it's more than a small patch, then it's probably worth discussing it on the -dev list first, it may be that the developers won't like the idea or that they have a particular view as to how it should be implemented
17:21<gbee>purserj: there is some basic plugin writing documentation in the wiki - a "Hello World" type introduction
17:22<purserj>sweet!
17:22<gbee>see the links on this page: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ and somewhere in http://wiki.mythtv.org
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17:24<gbee>purserj: what I said that the plugin guide is basic, I meant it, it will probably get you started but sooner or later you'll have to get you hands dirty and start looking at the library code and other plugins for guidance
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17:24<gbee>err, "what" = "when"
17:25<purserj>gbee: I've already started looking at the others to get a general sense of structure and so on. The Code Standard will help in that respect though
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17:38<godzirra>Heya folks.
17:38<godzirra>anyone know if this card will work for mythtv? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7641741&st=hauppauge&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1134697745634
17:39<mattwire>#mythtv-users
17:40<mattwire>Anybody else seen the ScanProgressPopup in the channelscanner get displayed the size of a postage stamp in the middle of the screen?
17:40<mattwire>Only happens when running with a "Full Scan (Tuned)"
17:40<godzirra>doh, sorry. Thank you mattwire.
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18:46<Aval0n>anyone know if libvisual is broken in svn plugins?
18:48<clever[rev]>it looks like libvisual isnt part of myth
18:48<clever[rev]>its just something used by myth
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20:35<Captain_Murdoch>cmoates: I'll let janneg handle that ticket. I forgot he had other related patches in his tree already. now that I see his comment in the ticket I remember him talking about working on the expirer and disk space issues.
20:35<cmoates>Cool
20:35<cmoates>I'm not picky :)
20:36<Captain_Murdoch>I think that's why he was trying to get ahold of me in here the other day, but lately I've rarely been online.
20:36<cmoates>He mentioned multirec; is that the QAM record more than one multiplex off a channel bit?
20:37<cmoates>I assumed that's what it is, anyhow, google didn't turn up much
20:37<GreyFoxx>not QAM specific
20:37<GreyFoxx>basically any DVB source with multiple channels per multiplex
20:37<cmoates>Oh, do other methods do it too
20:37<cmoates>gotcha
20:37<cmoates>Being in the US, I'm ignorant of most of the DVB stuff
20:38<Captain_Murdoch>cmoates: and when Michael Dean referred to Chris Pinkham on the mailing list, he's talking about me if you didn't figure it out already. :)
20:38<cmoates>Yeah
20:38<cmoates>I made the correllation
20:40[~]Captain_Murdoch is glad someone has time to work on the expirer, there are a few things on my TODO about that also, but none currently being worked on.
20:40<cmoates>Where's your TODO posted?
20:40<cmoates>or is it?
20:40<Captain_Murdoch>nowhere. I should put it up sometime to show people some ideas I've had. I'd need to explain some things better since most are just short notes right now as reminders for things.
20:40<cmoates>sure
20:40<Captain_Murdoch>too many projects on my TODO and not enough time.
20:41<Captain_Murdoch>have to work on things that help the WAF also so my direction changes sometimes. :)
20:41<cmoates>Indeed
20:41<cmoates>It makes me sad that my wife still prefers the replaytv over the myth box
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20:53<xris>my wife won't prefer the current mythbox over its last incarnation until firewire is fixed... grumbly fedora firewire "update"
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22:50<floppyears>hi guys
22:50<floppyears>I'm upgrading to the latest svn anything I should be aware of ?
22:51<floppyears>oh, shoot
22:51<floppyears>sorry, guys wrong channel
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23:07<xris>Snow-Man: looks like mythtv.org hung again. I'm restarting apache
23:21<Snow-Man>heh, alright.
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---Logclosed Sun Nov 18 00:00:54 2007