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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2007-12-07

---Logopened Fri Dec 07 00:00:04 2007
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02:13<Dibblah>Oooh! Nigel's looking properly at the build system! Yay - Less make distcleans! :)
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07:36<gbee>anyone else reckon that the mythgallery layout should be the same as the mythvideo gallery? i.e. text below the image name and not as a seperate field?
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07:36<gbee>possibly we should even get rid of the thumbnail on folders?
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10:06<jams>gbee- thanks for looking into the gallery view blackhole.
10:07<gbee>oh?
10:07<jams>isn't that what changeset 15077 was about
10:08<jams>it had to be defined in the theme, but acutally didn't do anything.
10:08<gbee>it is, just wondering what it is I fixed (or didn't) that you were thanking me for :)
10:08<gbee>jams: oh right, yeah, that was all wrong
10:09<jams>asked you to look at it acouple weeks ago, and now you have.
10:09<gbee>using a blackhole is wrong, it was just lazy not to create a proper widget and theme xml for it, but little point fixing it before mythui
10:10<gbee>jams: heh, sorry guess I forgot
10:10<gbee>only looked at it once I started to theme mythgallery :o
10:10<gbee>at least it's fixed
10:11<jams>now i have to fix my xml cause i think it's defined to only be 30 pixels wide
10:11<gbee>lmao
10:11<Chutt>mythgallery might be one of the easier things to port over to mythui
10:12<gbee>Chutt: it probably will, especially since it's just one, uncomplicated screen
10:13<gbee>if I port UIImageGridType or some variation of it to mythui, then that would pretty much be sorted
10:14<Chutt>just make sure the individual folders/images/thingies are separate uitypes
10:14<Chutt>so they can be mouse activated/etc
10:15<gbee>well do
10:15<gbee>will
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10:50<CDev>I just had a major hardware failure and need to retask my Mythbackend to be a windows domain controller.
10:50<CDev>The box is powerfill enough to win mythbackend in a VM. But it can't access the TV Cards.
10:51<laga>i'd suggest you run windows in a VM then...
10:51<CDev>I was thinking of creating a new network recorder with the corrisonding native windows service to expose the capture cards through the network.
10:52<CDev>Anyone opossed to this approach?
10:53<CDev>laga: unfortunately the windows server needs to be the primary OS (due to other hardware not supported by Linux)
10:54[~]CDev can't spell today!
11:01<janneg>CDev: xen can delegate access to PCI devices to guests
11:02<janneg>CDev: why can't you the current network recorder and just write a server for it?
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11:04<janneg>CDevm: why can't you the current network recorder and just write a server for it?
11:05<janneg>CDevm: but the delgation of pci devices to guest in Xen might help with the windows only hardware
11:08<CDevm>janneg: I'll take a look at Xen... never use it and with the time constrants I have, I will most likely fall back to what I know best.
11:09<CDevm>I will look into emulating one the existing recorders
11:11<janneg>I have run a slave backend in a xen guest with direct pci access to the capture card
11:13<janneg>the driver for the capture card was buggy and requirred restarts of the whole machine
11:13<janneg>it worked quite well
11:14<janneg>CDevm: vlc can stream to our network recorded but I think you can't change channels
11:14<janneg>GreyFoxx might be able tell more about it
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11:32<sphery>janneg: Have you seen messages in your backend log like, "AutoExpire: Found max recording rate of 0 MB/min," since [14901]?
11:33<sphery>Haven't done any debugging, yet, but I'm wondering if it's only affecting certain configurations (i.e. I have 2 backends with their own storage and no shares).
11:40<janneg>sphery: as long as no recordings are running that is expected but I forgot to change the verbose string which is slightly misleading
11:40<sphery>Cool.
11:41<sphery>Now that you say so, that makes sense based on the rest of the changes in that changeset.
11:41<sphery>I've seen some users on the list who were definitely confused by the message, so changing it would be good.
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11:45<janneg>I'm just not sure how to change it. s/max/current/ might be enough to avoid the confusion but is false. it is not the actual rate but a guessed maximal rate
11:46<sphery>You're right. Even "max current" rate isn't quite right...
11:48<sphery>"max recording rate of 0 MB/min for in-progress recordings" seems kind of long
11:53<gbee>janneg: should the message be shown at all if there are no recordings in progress?
11:53<janneg>I could omit the message if the the rate is 0 but that will cause confusion too
11:54<gbee>"AutoExpire: No recordings in progress" << shows that autoexpire is still working, but isn't deleting?
12:04<xris>gbee: got any updated screenshots of your theme?
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12:06<janneg>gbee: the message can be ommitted if no recordings are in progress
12:07<gbee>xris: no updated shots, despite changing the background a little - got a new one of mythgallery, http://www.miffteevee.co.uk/themes/metallurgy.html#Mythgallery
12:08<gbee>oh sorry, did you mean the website theme?
12:10<janneg>there is another message afterwards and I think I'll change the level of those message to VB_FILE
12:10<xris>gbee: nope, meant the mythtv one
12:11<gbee>xris: heh ok, my mind is all over the place today
12:14<xris>np
12:15<janneg>sphery: and it is a little bit more complex. it is also only the recording rate of the filesystem with the highest recording rate
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12:32<gbee>sphery: it gets worse really, my whole design for mythvideo is in jeopardy because of the number of view configuration options it offers and the way it scales images
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12:33<sphery>Perhaps it would be easier just to integrate the MythVideo stuff into mythfrontend... Then, you can design it to fit your theme. :)
12:33<gbee>for example, if you change the number of rows/cols in the settings it stretches the background images to fit, ignoring their original aspect ratios
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12:36<gbee>the arrows are kept in the same container, meaning they can't be placed on opposite sides of the screen (I had a hack in the theme to get around it but that doesn't work with a custom number of rows and columns)
12:36<gbee>the option to ignore poster aspects just looks bad and I can't see why it's even there
12:37<gbee>I could go on, but you get the idea
12:37<sphery>Wow. I can't believe theme designers like justinh and jams (and now you) haven't gone crazy, yet.
12:38<gbee>I think most themers have just accepted the problems without considering that it might be done another way
12:38<sphery>I think the options come down to users' belief that changing behavior (even when fixing a bug) should mean that an option is added to allow the old or the new way.
12:40<gbee>if I get get Anduin to agree, then there are a few small changes I'd make - like getting rid of that aspect ratio option
12:41<gbee>but most users and even a few devs are resistant to the idea of decreasing choice, even when those choices are pointless
12:42<sphery>Yeah. I think most devs who are resistant are so because they realize the consequences of dealing with users who are "used to it"
12:50<gbee>another issue, disable "show title below thumbnail" and again it stretches the background image to fit and makes directory browsing impossible
12:51<gbee>all very irritating and probably comes, as you said, from years of users submitting patches to do things their way
12:52<laga>i wondered the other day about introducing more hidden settings and document them somewhere..
12:54<gbee>laga: in the cases I'm talking about here, I'd fight to remove some of the settings entirely
12:55<gbee>just because it's an OS project, doesn't mean we have to accept every patch or idea
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12:56<gbee>and just because it's a primarily a linux project doesn't mean we have to allow an infinite number of configuration options
12:59<gbee>to make the point, this is what the gallery view looks like with the "Preserve Poster Aspect Ratio" setting turned off - http://www.miffteevee.co.uk/imagebin/mythvid_stupidsetting.png
12:59<gbee>now why would anyone want that??
13:02<gbee>by comparison, with the correct aspect - http://www.miffteevee.co.uk/themes/metallurgy/metallurgy71.png
13:03<sphery>why, indeed?
13:04<gbee>Anduin: thoughts?
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13:06<gbee>with title display off, it looks good, the aspect ratio of the background images is correct in this one but how do you browse directories easily? http://www.miffteevee.co.uk/imagebin/mythvid_stupidsetting1.png
13:08<gbee>think I'll take the night off from mythtv, I'm getting too worked up :)
13:09<gbee>beer, takeaway and TV should calm me down
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13:12<sphery>gbee: Did you check to see what it looks like with folder.png in one of your folders?
13:13<gbee>folder.png?
13:14<sphery>for MythVideo to put the preview on the folder
13:14<gbee>sphery: oh right, no I haven't checked yet
13:15[~]gbee goes to find a suitable image
13:15<gbee>I know it didn't work well in mythgallery when I was using the same images
13:16<sphery>Also, gbee , channel_icons.pl only works with trunk's Perl bindings, so at least until they're in the released versions, some will probably need, i.e., the UK channel icons script.
13:17<gbee>completely obscures the folder image
13:19<gbee>sphery: good point, should probably be comitted to -fixes
13:19<gbee>the version was set to head though, so I just assumed they were submitting it for there
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13:33<jams>sphery- your comment about going crazy is a very valid point ;)
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13:44<souped>I have a laptop with a radeon mobility 7500 64mb w/ S-Video out. Should that be good enough to watch video on my TV/
13:44<souped>?
13:44<souped>Currently it works a 800X600 but is choppy
13:44<gbee>don't know about you jams, but it's driven me crazy and I think justinh would say the same
13:44<laga>you might have to adjust its screen so you can read the channel topic
13:45<gbee>how else would you explain my ranting? :)
13:45<souped>i might try reducing the colors
13:46<laga>souped: ask in #mythtv-users
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13:47<jams>gbee- it's one of the reasons i didn't look a *.xml for a year or tow
13:47<jams>two
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14:00<gbee>anyone else have problems with playback freezing completely in trunk?
14:05<gbee>gets stuck with "NVP: Timed out waiting for free video buffers.", never attempts to exit playback and restarting the frontend is the only way out of it
14:05<gbee>started happening in the last few days
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14:25<sphery>gbee: I've seen freezes in playback. mythfrontend didn't respond to remote or keyboard. I just killed X (which restarted mythfrontend) all three times I've seen it.
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14:27<gbee>sphery: ok, next time I see it I'll open a ticket
14:27<sphery>gbee: There's a discussion on -users about it. I haven't read the thread, so I can't vouch for the accuracy of the statements within, but someone is actively attempting to debug it. http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/302493#302493
14:27<sphery>Of course, his mailer is broken, so the rest of the thread isn't there...
14:28<sphery>Oh, wait, that's the -dev (cross-post). Here's the -users thread: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/302726#302726
14:28<gbee>at the very least, the fact that we never timeout and gracefully exit playback needs fixing, even if the underlying issue is with my system (just removed the extra ram I installed the other night)
14:28<gbee>sphery: thanks
14:30<sphery>hope it helps
14:30<sphery>(at least, maybe the last response may be useful)
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14:32<gbee>sphery: I'll look at it tomorrow, trying to take a night off from code/theme issues :)
14:34<sphery>good plan
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15:07<Anduin>gbee: I'm in the anti-option (or secret option) camp, though I often give deference to options decided on before my time. I always keep in mind that no change goes unpunished. That said, do as you like, just don't play with the video manager much before I get my changes in there.
15:08<jams>Anduin- functional changes or ui changes for the video manger?
15:09<gbee>Anduin: ok thanks for that
15:09<Anduin>jams: Don't worry, theme compatible ones (so I can make some theme incompatible ones easier).
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15:14<Anduin>well, theme compatible if you were staying within your container bounds
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---Logclosed Fri Dec 07 15:40:54 2007
---Logopened Fri Dec 07 15:40:58 2007
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16:11<gbee>would someone mind telling David that I'm not kormoc?
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16:14<xris>hahaha
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16:19<Anduin>It is xris' fault for using irc names
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16:24<xris>Anduin: everyone calls him Kormoc in person, too
16:24<xris>except that none of the rest of you actually know him in person. heh
16:25<xris>so I never know who knows the irc nic and who knows the real name
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16:45[~]kormoc blinks at gbee and xris.
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16:47<xris>kormoc: read the developers list
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16:48<kormoc>xris, ooh, that thread... gotcha...
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---Logclosed Sat Dec 08 00:00:34 2007