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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2007-12-31

---Logopened Mon Dec 31 00:00:35 2007
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02:46<roothorick>with my HTPC's limited space I need to go USB with either the sound card or the TV tuner. Which will go and why?
02:46<roothorick>I'll rephrase
02:46<roothorick>which SHOULD go and why?
02:50<roothorick>changed my mind. replacing the wireless card instead and going PCI on both the tuner and the sound
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05:26<gbee>Anduin: wasn't suggesting that we drop external player support in the next 6 months, but I was trying to establish what reasons remain for people to use something other than the internal player
05:27<gbee>I think most people are using external players because they don't realise the internal player even exists or that it can do all the things that the external players can
05:28<gbee>myth_system can stop the miniplayer, although I'd actually do it before calling myth_system, because we use myth_system for other things
05:29<Tanthrix>gbee: Assuming you're referring to mythvideo, I think it's extremelly important to keep external player support. It gives a great versatility to myth, and I have a hard time believing it causes any big problems keeping it around.
05:29<gbee>restarting the music afterwards could be a little messier
05:32<gbee>Tanthrix: heh. what versatility? I've no objection to keeping the external player support if it's hidden away better but I don't really back the idea of "options just for the sake of options"
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05:32<Tanthrix>gbee: Well, for one, there is an absolute ton of video/audio codecs out there. I find it hard to believe that myth can play all of them well, and will keep as up to date with them as say, mplayer.
05:32<gbee>what practical benefits does supporting external players in mythtv offer that can't be handled better with a proper integrated media player (integrated OSD, commands etc)
05:33<Tanthrix>gbee: I for one have had numerous issues playing back dvds over mounted network shares in myth. Would have loved to use it, but I had to switch to xine to get everything working. Mind you, that was a while back, and I haven't tried recently.
05:33<gbee>Tanthrix: mplayer and mythtv both use ffmpeg, anything mplayer can handle, mythtv should handle too
05:34<gbee>Tanthrix: did you report these problems?
05:34<Tanthrix>gbee: That is a good point. But still, I think it's such a simple feature (just being able to assign file types and commands to those filetypes lets the user do anything they want) that it doesn't make much since to get rid of.
05:35<Tanthrix>gbee: No. To be honest, I wasn't completely sure that it wasn't something on my own system, so I didn't want to clutter up the already crowded bug list.
05:35<gbee>Tanthrix: the problem is the confusion it causes, the work involved in making things like the music miniplayer work with it etc
05:36<Tanthrix>gbee: I guess it is a bit confusing, but that could probably be fixed in a way that didn't involve getting rid of entirely. Really, all you need is one of those pages with a check box that says "Override internal player" which when checked displays options for creating file types and assigning commands. Default unchecked and keep that stuff hidden.
05:37<Tanthrix>gbee: The music side is a place I would agree that it's not worth supporting. Can't think of a real need for it since audio is so much more straight forward. (No complex deinterlacers, few fairly common types, etc..)
05:38<gbee>like I said, I've no problem if it's pushed further into the background to remove some of the confusion, I guess there will always be someone wanting to do strange things with an external player
05:38<gbee>If you don't use the internal player you lose the integrated OSD, playback options and easier setup
05:38<Tanthrix>gbee: There's just so much complexity to video that I think it's important to support external players. I've had so many times throughout the past couple years where xine will do one thing that mplayer won't, and that myth will do but VLC doesn't, etc..
05:39<gbee>as some users think that they have to setup mplayer etc (because of outdated howtos) this reflects negatively on mythtv/mythvideo
05:39<Tanthrix>gbee: Different kinds of deinterlacers, audio track switching, dvd menu glitches, etc.. make it important to give the power users options. I agree though that it's probably a good idea to totally hide it, and make it clear that it's a power user option
05:40<gbee>Tanthrix: I know that I'm probably not going to win the argument, unlike most mythvideo users I don't download videos off the internet (legally, or illegally) so I'm not exposed to the problems that come from doing that
05:41<gbee>Tanthrix: audio track switching is something mythtv has handled for an extremely long time, it will even pick the correct language automatically
05:41<Tanthrix>gbee: That does make a difference for sure, since there are a myriad of video formats. I know that for a while the internal player wouldn't do my online CS classes that I streamripped. Had to use mplayer, but eventually that changed.
05:42<gbee>new interlacers can be added to mythtv at any time (we've just added greedy and another one)
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05:42<Tanthrix>gbee: Oh, I know. Myth is actually one the most awesome players around, especislly considering it's the *only* video player for linux that does time stretching. It's just that the huge list of contains, codecs, etc.. make it really impossible for it to work perfectly all the time. Throw in different situations like network shares and the like, and it gets even more complex.
05:43<Tanthrix>gbee: Like I said, I've run into many situations where I had to switch from my normal player (which is generally mplayer) for whatever mysterious reasons.
05:44<Tanthrix>gbee: Weird things like cache/buffer issues for high bitrate streams, different video drivers to get rid of tearing. (Just had a file the other day that was tearing like crazy, depsite xv-vsync turned on. Only file to do it in the whole time I've had this machine setup. Quickly switching to GL fixed that)
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05:45<Tanthrix>gbee: Mind you, that is something that myth could do, I just use it to illustrate the complexity of video. I'm totally with you though, the internal player should be given focus, and the external player options totally hidden until deliberaly checked. (As opposed to having the whole file types thing like now)
05:45<gbee>Tanthrix: my motivation is mostly to make mythtv easier to install and configure, I've seen enough problems with users trying to setup lirc for xine/mplayer or losing focus when using an external player, or complaing that they _have_ to install an external player to know that this is one area in which we could make improvements
05:46<Tanthrix>gbee: Yah, that is definately a good reason. It certainly does add a mostly unnecessary level of complexity. Just keep the options around and hidden for the number of us that need them. I think there are enough of us to make it worthwhile, considering how easy it would be to keep and hide these features. ;)
05:47<gbee>I know there are still some problems with the internal player, but they aren't all being reported which makes it hard to know what needs fixing :)
05:48<Tanthrix>I'll switch over to using it just for the hell of it, and I'll see how it's working these days. And I'll report any issues that I find! ;)
05:48<Tanthrix>Right now I'm much more concerned with the big channel scanning segfault that I've been dealing with. Adding channels via the db is not fun.
05:49<gbee>I know that the internal player can't handle the mjpeg videos produced by my camera, yet ffmpeg can, so it's a problem with somewhere in myth
05:57<Tanthrix>That's a great example. And those problems are *never* going to go away. There are literally thousands of containers (including containers of containers like ISOs of dvds/vcds,) audio and video codecs. It is impossible to create one program that handles all possible options.
05:58<Tanthrix>gbee: Just imagine if you wanted a nice catalog of your thousands of hours of home movies and myth's internal player didn't support it. You'd be flat out of luck! ;)
05:59<gbee>Tanthrix: I'd like to think that you'd report the issue, the internal player would vastly improve and everyone would be happy
05:59<gbee>if they were my home movies I'd want to use timestretch :p
05:59<Tanthrix>gbee: True. And if I find anymore, I'll report them. But even then, you're still not going to catch all of them, especially when myth is not a video player.
06:00<Tanthrix>gbee: Time stretch is a beautiful thing. It definately made some of my CS classes go by much faster ;)
06:00<gbee>Tanthrix: "most" is better than "none"
06:01<Tanthrix>gbee: Agreed, but you ignore a very important fact: the two are not mutually exclusive. We can easily do both (make the internal player primary, and continue support for external players with practically little to no work) so it's not really an issue.
06:02<gbee>Tanthrix: that's also the problem though, if users are able to just fallback to an external player then they are less likely to report the failure
06:03<gbee>I don't really mind if we had a backlog of a thousand tickets so long as they are all valid bugs that we can work on fixing, at the end of the day mythtv will be much better for it
06:03<Tanthrix>gbee: There's probably some truth to that, but I hardly doublt it's a big issue. Most people are too lazy to report bugs anyway (or are like me and aren't confident enough that they are legit buts and not user setup issues,) so the ones that really want myth to work well would probably report them before falling back to a third party player
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06:05<Tanthrix>gbee: But at a more fundemental level, I object to that reasoning. It's almost like intentionally cripling myth in order to lock in use of a player that won't work with everything, not now, and not ever, in the hope that it will force users to improve it.
06:06<Tanthrix>gbee: Which is probably more likely to make them go somewhere else, to say nothing about one of the core missions of myth to make a suite of programs that allows users and power users alike the freedom to create a video system that they fully control.
06:07<Tanthrix>gbee: It's an interesting dichotomy for sure (creating a simple system that works great for most people while keeping support for incredible customization) but one worth working for, I'd say. That's why I use myth, I know that much. It lets me pretty much make a system that works exactly how I want it to.
06:08<gbee>Tanthrix: if xine, mplayer or vlc can play back a particular format, then potentially so can mythtv so I don't agree that there are formats which mythtv will never play, unless they are also never played by those three, in which case having support for an external player is irrelevant
06:09<gbee>but I agree, that getting rid of the external player support altogether doesn't need to happen
06:10<Tanthrix>gbee: Potentially being the key word. What good does that do you right now for your issue with your camera? What good does it do someone with a more funky, home built setup - perhaps some kind of wonky proprietary video format that not enough people use to make it worth working in myth?
06:11<Tanthrix>gbee: It's such a freaking simple feature that is easy to hide, I really have a hard time seeing where you're coming from. Hide it yes, but don't get rid of it entirely. And the whole "it will make people submit more bug reports thing" is a pretty far stretch to rationlize it. I mean, it's not like anyone enjoys having eight different players for eight different formats. We all want myth to do everything, but unfortunately, that's si
06:11<gbee>I just think the benefits of an integrated player shouldn't be ignored and that rather than taking the easy route of handling problem codecs with external players, we should work on improving the internal player - the fact that there is another solution "right now" just removes the motivation to write the code
06:14<gbee>Tanthrix: my experience of talking to users suggests that they just don't know about the internal player and what it can do, they think that 8 different media players is normal and I really don't think it even occurs to them that it could change
06:14<Tanthrix>gbee: Fair enough. But that can be done without arbitrarily removing support (read: crippling what is a great myth feature) for external players.
06:15<Tanthrix>gbee: Yes, but you don't have to get rid of it to fix that. Hiding it would solve that 100 percent, along with updating the docs. Hell, even just updating the docs and wiki now would go far towards fixing that.
06:15<gbee>Tanthrix: I think I conceeded that moving external player support to the background is a better idea half an hour ago, we're going round in circles
06:16<gbee>if you look at all the other areas of mythtv where we don't rely (directly) on external applications, when there is a feature missing then someone is motivated to fix it
06:17<Tanthrix>gbee: True, but you still seem to think that that it should be removed entirely, which I was vehemently trying to disquade you from. But you are right, we are most definately going around in circles.
06:17<gbee>now that might be one person out of the thousand who want the feature, but that's all it takes
06:17<Tanthrix>That is true. And for the most part, myth doesn't have to rely on a lot of outside apps to work, if any really.
06:18<Tanthrix>I just think that it's not just a matter of making everything work that way. Part of myth's mentality is giving users the freedom to customize and use whatever they want, be it hardware or software, to their ends. Even if myth played every format absolutely perfectly and better than everything else, I'd still want to keep this tiny feature.
06:19<Tanthrix>But that's just me.
06:19<Tanthrix>I do see where you're coming from, for sure.
06:19<gbee>Tanthrix: I'm just not as pessimistic as you are about the internal player supporting all those formats, although moving the external player support to background is a good move now I predict that in a couple of years, after we start to see the benefits in the internal player that we could find ourselves deciding that the external player support is no longer necessary
06:20<gbee>not saying that it _will_ happen, but I'd like to think that it might
06:21<Tanthrix>gbee: It's not pessimism as much as it is realism. It's simply an insurmountable feat to support everything perfectly. But like I said, ignoring that entirely, I still think it's a great feature of myth to provide this feature, even if the internal player can beat mplayer, xine, and VLC hands down in every single aspect.
06:22<Tanthrix>gbee: You may be right though. It certainly has gotten much better. My experience with my WMV CS classes has proved that to me.
06:22<gbee>Tanthrix: although I agree that's it's almost impossible to support everything, I feel that it's achievable to support everything that xine/mplayer will
06:22<Dibblah>Tanthrix: You're still ignoring the fact that the majority of the code to play video files is shared between Myth, Xine _and_ mplayer.
06:22<Dibblah>All of them use ffmpeg.
06:23<Dibblah>So if mplayer plays something that Myth doesn't, we in the worst case have _working sample code_...
06:24<Dibblah>Of course, it's not quite that simple - There is some additional indirection, but it is there.
06:24<gbee>just imagine if the xine/mplayer/gstreamer devs stopped working against each other and merge the projects (ok maybe not gstreamer, never really understood what they were doing there)
06:24<Tanthrix>Dibblah: I do know that much. But there's much more to a video player than simply which video/audio codecs it uses. If the players were homogenous, we wouldn't have so many, and I would have to use xine for some things and mplayer for others.
06:25<Tanthrix>gbee: There is definately something to be said for that (and many other aspects of linux)
06:26<Tanthrix>gbee: But like I said, keeping the external player support just for the times when it doesn't work isn't my primary argument. It's having the freedom to use whatever player you damn well want to that makes myth great (among its thousands of other customizations) whether it be due to personal preference, or a technical reason of some sorts.
06:26<Tanthrix>But, I think I've said all that I can say on the subject. It's getting pretty late over here in Portland, OR ;)
06:27<gbee>I've not had breakfast yet and it's nearly noon
06:27<Tanthrix>Ahh, you're up a bit east aren't you.
06:28<Tanthrix>(Where a bit == thousands of miles)
06:28<Dibblah>gbee: On a totally unrelated subject, as I'm sure I've said before, if you need any code-monkey style work for the MythUI migration, I'm very willing to help / learn.
06:29[~]Dibblah really wants his kitchen touchscreen working :)
06:30<gbee>Dibblah: thanks, I think I need to get a couple of screens converted as examples but then I'd welcome the help
06:30[~]Tanthrix runs off to bed
06:31<Dibblah>The main problem is the initial creation of the widgets is skilled.
06:31<gbee>I need to convert them as much for my benefit, since everything I know about mythui is theoretical and not practical
06:31<Tanthrix>Nice debating gbee, have yourself a good rest of your morning. I'll be falling asleep to Futurama playing in an external player ;)
06:31<Dibblah>But the migration to using them shouldn't be too bad :)
06:31<gbee>Tanthrix: ;)
06:32<gbee>Dibblah: the migration part should be straight forward, we'll probably spend more time cleaning up old code snippets and hacks than actually adding in the new stuff
06:43<justinh>morning
06:45<justinh>gbee: got my program doing its impersonation of the appearance settings menu (i.e. reload/rescale) :) only problem is it's been segfaulty
06:46<mattwire>gbee: don't know if you have any idea about this one... but when I'm creating progress dialogs/busy dialogs that are closely followed by a system/myth_system call they don't draw properly - I only get a background until the system call returns. Any ideas how I could get around this?
06:47<gbee>mattwire: guess it's got to do with the loss of focus, QT isn't redrawing the progress dialogue
06:48<mattwire>hmm, that would make sense i guess
06:48<mattwire>probably no easy way of getting around that either :(
06:48<gbee>mattwire: I've no ideas, but fwiw it shouldn't be a problem forever, writing a mythui replacement for the progress/busy widgets should be straightforward
06:49<gbee>depends what you are writing I suppose and when you hope to have it finished (committed?)
06:50<gbee>I wanted to spend the entire day yesterday working on the mythui port, but in the end I just watched a lot of TV instead :)
06:50<mattwire>well it affects my auto restart code for mythcontext /mythtv-setup (#4184) but I think it'll take a while before that one gets committed anyway
06:50<mattwire>but also the icon import stuff in a small way
06:51<gbee>justinh: excellant, how far have you got left to go?
06:51<mattwire>the first thing it does is check for a server connection by pinging - which returns quickly enough so you don't notice the dialog not being drawn if there is a connection..
06:52<mattwire>thanks for committing the libmyth part of the icon stuff by the way
06:52<gbee>mattwire: I knew when committing the libmyth stuff for the icon import patch that it was temporary
06:52<justinh>gbee: not sure. will be having a sit down & stare at it session in a bit.
06:52<justinh>I've added a 'reset screen size' menu item too
06:53<gbee>all the ui code and settings widgets will be replaced, but I don't think I'll get it done before 0.21 now so I wanted to get the icon import stuff in now
06:53<justinh>the only thing it needs AFAIK (if indeed it really needs it at all) is a confirmation dialogue
06:53<gbee>it can be migrated after 0.21 is released
06:55<mattwire>that's what I figured
06:55<mattwire>I'll do my best to help with the migration...
06:56<mattwire>fwiw how will mythui get around focus and redraw issues?
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07:19<justinh>heh so I know why I couldn't blimmin get to sleep last night/this morning. those tablets - 500mg paracetamol, 65mg caffeine (each). FFs
07:29<okolsi>gbee: the particular video that made me use mplayer instead of internal was recorded with Nokia phone. It should be H.264 or similar.. and it works straight with mplayer
07:30<okolsi>gbee: I agree with you that internal player should handle as many formats as possible
07:31<okolsi>gbee: but this brings us into another issue that I raised in dev list some time ago.. there should be easy way to distribute test video clips.. some kind of FTP-server or similar
07:46<gbee>mattwire: mythui won't be using QT widgets or wrappers around them
07:47<gbee>I don't really know if it will get around the problem, but I'm optimistic
07:48<gbee>okolsi: I agree about some sort of test clip ftp server
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08:01<justinh>maybe it's time to undo whatever I did to hard-set a path in a config file here
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08:59<justinh>right I think now I just need to handle ESC
09:06<gbee>any thoughts on how scrolling text might be done? The only easy way that I can think of involves popping characters off the string, which would work but I think a smooth scrolling effect would be better
09:06<justinh>I thought there was already something that could do that
09:06<gbee>that means drawing the text then cropping off a % from the end
09:07<gbee>justinh: not aware of anything, except the LCD scrolling
09:08<justinh>hmmm. could be worth seeing how XBMC does it ;)
09:09<gbee>maybe rendering the text then playing with the image might produce the best effect, shift the image while slicing from one side and appending it to the other side
09:09<justinh>gbee: I remember coding a smooth scroll on an 8-bit machine many many moons ago
09:10<justinh>that was way before proportional fonts were commonplace though
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09:11<justinh>qt can already do it - you can have a qtext container with a virtual size & move a 'window' around over it
09:11<justinh>I think XBMC uses something like that
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09:12<justinh>but I suspect it can cause problems when you have very big areas - I often saw xbmcmythtv crash when it tried to scroll long titles
09:13<justinh>just had a read of the coding standards btw. man, WTF are people moaning about when they cite that as a blocker for contribution?!
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09:14<justinh>as p. poor excuses go, it's among the worst I've ever known
09:14<justinh>gbee: I'll go take a look in the xbmc source & see what I can glean
09:15<gbee>justinh: thanks
09:15<bendailey>anyone else not getting emails from the mailing list?
09:15<justinh>I suspect they use the 'virtual text area with moving window' approach though
09:16[~]justinh smacks sourceforge
09:19<justinh>how does anybody using sourceforge manage to get anything done?
09:19<justinh>this might take some time gbee
09:20<gbee>heh, np
09:21<gbee>the approach you are talking about there is what I was considering, but in practice I'm not sure how to achieve it without making a lot of work for myself
09:21<GreyFoxx>justinh: seriously people use that as a reason ?
09:21<GreyFoxx>bendailey: appears to be working for me
09:22<bendailey>GreyFoxx: sorry for the noise my ISP was busted
09:22<justinh>gbee: the old 8-bit way to do it was to clip the string to the desired area, move the area one pixel at a time for the width of one char, then jump back one char width (the width of the next char) & move the substr along one place
09:23<justinh>GreyFoxx: yeah I've seen people cite that before
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09:25<justinh>I'm a little bit worried about the segfaults I've seen when I do the GetMythMainWindow()->JumpTo("Reload Theme"); - I hope I'm just low on memory
09:26<rooaus>Andui1: I create #4399 for the plugin wide theme reorganisation. I hope it is OK, if you get a chance let me know if it needs to be updated.
09:27<gbee>with the QT painter at least I can play with the clipping area, not implemented for opengl yet
09:27<gbee>rooaus: thanks for doing that
09:28<justinh>hrm I haven't managed to trap Esc either
09:28<justinh>not really very surprising
09:29<gbee>justinh: let me check, myththemedmenu might have a signal that can be used, otherwise the destructor could be your only option
09:29<rooaus>gbee: np, it was a sucky job that you devs don't need to waste time on ;) (assuming it is ok)
09:30<gbee>err, myththemeddialog
09:30<justinh>gbee: what I'm thinking is, it's not that big a deal since it'll be moving away from being a plugin anyway - all it'll involve is a simple check to see if the user has changed a position
09:32<gbee>justinh: what name are you using for escape? it's ESCAPE not ESC (as I got wrong earlier)
09:32<justinh>haha that'd do it
09:34<gbee>no signal for myththemeddialog, mythpopupbox emits one but not mythdialog etc
09:35<gbee>not that I think it would do any good, the event loop probably wouldn't get processed before the window was destroyed or something
09:35<justinh>it's not that big a deal IMHO
09:38<justinh>other stuff doesn't ask if you want to save a change before quitting ;)
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09:52<justinh>gbee: btw I saw my mate from the BBC on xmas day. word on the street is that red button services will be scaled back to make room for HD
09:52<gbee>no great loss, good news I'd say
09:52<justinh>the interactive stuff, while great - is vastly underrated & unused by many
09:53<justinh>they get some interesting trinkets on there from time to time - such as gigs & things
09:53<gbee>it's brilliant, but kinda pointless in a household with internet access
09:53<justinh>I think it's more that they'll be scaling back the extra video channels
09:54<gbee>the video stuff is ok, but I don't understand why they don't just air that extra stuff on regular channels instead of the dross
09:54<justinh>cut two & it just about allows for one h.264 HD channel
09:56<gbee>it certainly doesn't get enough use to justify the space and I think I'd prefer to see gigs etc on BBC 2/3/4
09:56<justinh>aye me too
09:56<justinh>put the snooker on 301 !
09:57<gbee>with the video stuff they are really just stretching the definition of 'interactive', it's basically just an extra channel for a few hours a day, nothing interactive about it
09:57<gbee>IMHO
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10:22<justinh>yay the xbmc checkout has finished at last
10:24<gbee>bloated much?
10:25<justinh>hard to day
10:25<justinh>*say
10:25<justinh>mostly sourceforge being dog slow I think
10:25<gbee>probably
10:32<justinh>gbee: yeah looks like they're using a virtual area & viewport
10:33<justinh>gbee: won't the gl renderer already be able to draw clipped regions?
10:33<justinh>it can clip things to fit in a container area, I'd have assumed
10:34<gbee>yeah, if you modify the text region
10:35<justinh>if (m_isScrollable) { extendvirtualareatosuit } .. ish..
10:36<justinh>I think text containers would need to have a <autoscroll> tag or something
10:36<gbee>that's the plan
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10:37<justinh>could've sworn I've seen scrolly stuff in the code already
10:37<gbee>autoscroll and manualscroll (for long program descriptions, program details page etc)
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10:43<justinh>gbee: of course the OSD has had smooth scrolling all along :)
10:43|-|splAt1 changed nick to splat1
10:43<gbee>doh
10:44<justinh>and what's this scrolldelay & scrollpause stuff in xmlparse.cpp ?
10:48<gbee>doh doh
10:49<gbee>well that gives me plenty of material to pillage from
10:50<justinh>I looked at it yonks & yonks ago with the impression that hey maybe if I just changed some xml..
10:50<gbee>heh, a little late but I've just remembered the idea that I originally had
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10:52<gbee>it's probably close to what you were describing before, the 8bit stuff, I just had some trouble envisaging it
10:53<justinh>one possible issue I can see with it is if there's any lag it'll look ugly as
10:53<gbee>for right to left scrolling, you shorten the textarea to the width of the text, right-align and then progressively decrease the width of the text area?
10:53<justinh>i.e. when it does the 'jerk'
10:54<justinh>gbee: that might work
10:55<gbee>once the width of the text area == zero, you reverse the effect so that it appears to scroll back onto screen from the right again
10:56<gbee>it's the most simple way to do it without making a lot of changes in the painters etc, it would contain the changes neatly to mythuitext and should take only a few lines
10:57[~]gbee sets to work
10:57<gbee>think I was just being a bit dense until now
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10:58<gbee>coders block
11:02<gbee>looks like Chutt started to put the code in place for scrolling text, MythUIText::DrawSelf takes a argument "ClipRect" which is unused
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11:04<justinh>so I wasn't seeing things!
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11:10<gbee>looks like ClipRect wasn't designed for that purpose after all, not a problem though
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11:23<rooaus>Has there been any discussion/thought on retiring some of the current themes from myththemes before the next release?
11:24<justinh>no comment
11:24<justinh>that'd be a fair hornet's nest IMHO
11:25<rooaus>yeah :D
11:25<justinh>I think the last thing I remember reading was just letting some go into atrophy was the plan
11:27<justinh>maybe there'd be no need to drop any themes if they were spruced up a bit
11:27<rooaus>you mean style wise or just fixing watermarks etc?
11:28<justinh>both
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11:28<justinh>some of the graphics are just gnarly IMHO. jaggy arrows, jaggy boxes..
11:29<justinh>I'd say that looking into it after tarting up the existing default theme images would be a good course of action
11:30<justinh>I started looking around for images to use as new watermarks for those themes missing them but didn't get far on some. mythcenter was one where I drew a blank on suitably styled icons
11:30<rooaus>do you know if "themes" will be released as a tarball for 0.21?
11:30<gbee>once something has been added to mythtv (or open source in general) you have to fight hard to remove it again, no matter how crap it is :(
11:31<justinh>rooaus: blimmin big tarball if it is. I don't care either way
11:32<rooaus>true, just wondering though. As the release gets picked up by packagers, thats all.
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11:33<justinh>as long as metallurgy isn't in "themes" I'll honestly say the whole dir could be pulled for all I care - save for changes I need to keep tabs on
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11:43<rooaus>goodnight all
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11:51<Andui1>mattwire probably just needed to force the event queue to run before the myth_system call executed, so the paint event could get processed
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12:04<gbee>well scrolling works
12:06<gbee>doesn't QT have a 'ping' that can be used instead of using myth_system?
12:11<mattwire>apparently ping needs to be run suid root because it accesses icmp stuff
12:11<mattwire>well that's what google says..
12:13<clever>/bin/ping: setuid ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.1, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
12:14<clever>Access: (4755/-rwsr-xr-x) Uid: ( 0/ root) Gid: ( 0/ root)
12:14<clever>yep my ping appears to be setuid root
12:14<mattwire>deleting individual transports doesn't seem to work at the moment in the transport editor :(
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12:22<xris>gbee: looks like maybe the grey color on that TV image didn't quite get set... it looks whiter than the other grey one I have
12:23<gbee>really? odd, I'll take a look in a while
12:24<xris>yeah, no hurry
12:24<xris>it may just be my eyes playing tricks on me
12:24<xris>I forgot to pull it up in gimp and check the actual colors.
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12:45<stuarta>gbee: that wouldn't be scrolly text boxes would it?
12:53[~]stuarta rescans his channels for fun
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12:59<gbee>stuarta: that would be exactly what I'm talking about :)
13:00<gbee>it's a little rough at the moment, a proof of concept, just cleaning it up now
13:03<stuarta>cool
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13:05<stuarta>i'll test it tomorrow during the hangover ;-O
13:15<Anduin>rooaus: It looks ok to me (#4399), I'll try to be the first to convert over. Probably the only thing I would have done different is allowing individual conversions (so that others not willing to change plug-ins they don't touch can be as cowardly as I am). Expecting someone with commit access to do some quick edits isn't too onerous though.
13:22<gbee>as far as mythmovies, mythmusic and mythweather, feel free to make the change
13:23<gbee>can't see there being a problem with mythnews, mythcontrols and mythflix either since they don't have any permanent maintainers
13:23<gbee>mythbrowser doesn't have a theme
13:24<gbee>not really sure who is responsible for mythgallery
13:29<stuarta>have a good NYE all, back tomorrow, now it's couch time
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13:55<gnome42>stuarta: have a good one! Be good! or at least safe! :))
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14:14<GreyFoxx>Well, I have windows media player 11 upnp streaming sorta working, with cover posters
14:15<GreyFoxx>hopefully this will translate to the xbox using cover posters too
14:19<xris>heh
14:21<gbee>GreyFoxx: a bit of new year optimism? :p
14:22<GreyFoxx>bah
14:22<GreyFoxx>WMP uses the standard albumArtURI tag but the xbox doesn't
14:24<GreyFoxx>Something is triggering the xbox to request an image if the server is WMP itself, but I don't see any special tags or values
14:25<clever>ive got tons of album art litered about my music folder
14:25<clever>which is nearly useless until mythmusic or something gets to use it
14:26<GreyFoxx>I thought mythmusic could do album art
14:26<GreyFoxx>I don't really use mythmusic myself so I've never really looked at it but I'm sure I saw screenshots including art
14:29<clever>i rearranged all my jpg and mp3 files
14:29<gbee>Daniel might have told me before working on one of my tickets, saved me wasting my own time on it
14:29<clever>so the jpg and mp3's arent in the same folder anymore
14:29<clever>which may be half the problem
14:29<clever>the filenames appear random
14:30<gbee>mythmusic supports album art in the same folder as the mp3s, it also now supports albumart embedded in id3 tags
14:30<clever>AlbumArt_{6E501886-7CB8-40EC-A854-6365CA275438}_Small.jpg AlbumArt_{F0CA6581-0907-4587-B9BC-08115C82AC98}_Large.jpg
14:30<clever>ive got those
14:30<clever>254 of them
14:40<gnome42>eek, I accidently deleted my filters/yadif/.svn directory. Is there a svn way to replace it?
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14:47<justinh>well, I'm now drunk. one glass of wine & I'm knacked :(
14:48<xris>justinh: sounds like good british wine. ;)
14:48<justinh>man-flu - that's my excuse & I'm sticking to it
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14:54<justinh>aha.. bing! I should probably change some configgy things around so that the arrow images are copied during make install too
14:58<justinh>oh damnit. now my ESCAPE trap works & I can't exit it
15:00<gnome42>gbee: re: EIT, just checking my logs and I did load some EIT data this morning. However, I'm using homebrew patch for controlling EIT collection.
15:01<gbee>justinh: add "reject();" after you've done the confirm dialog
15:01<gnome42>gbee: that's also on multirec r15157, so maybe not that useful a data point for you. :/
15:02<justinh><cartman voice> but gbee... is the confirm dialog really necessary? </cartman voice> (me & my big mouth)
15:02<gbee>gnome42: was it passive EIT or active EIT? (can be hard to tell the difference from logs alone)
15:02<justinh>sod it I've come this far damnit
15:03<justinh>no time for packing up early with the job almost finished
15:03<gbee>justinh: hehe
15:04<justinh>so, what did you do on NYE? hmm not much. bit of coding..
15:06<gnome42>gbee: I butchered mine so only active scan is allowed during a configurable time window.
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15:17<Viaken>I'm getting interlacing artifacts on my TV, however, it's an interlaced display. Where should I begin debugging?
15:18<justinh>#mythtv-users :)
15:20<Viaken>DOH
15:20<Viaken>Sorry :)
15:20<Viaken>Not the first time I've made that mistake, I don't think.
15:21<Viaken>Thanks
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15:55<gbee>well when my scrolling text works, it works beautifully, but there is a nasty and potentially fatal flaw in the method used :(
15:59<Chutt>fatal flaws are fun
16:13<gbee>can't see a solution, so back to the drawing board
16:15<gbee>shame really because it was a small patch and involved no changes to the existing code
16:21<Chutt>just copy the osd scrolling text code?
16:27<gbee>going to look at that now
16:32<gbee>given me the solution I was after, can make my code work after all with just a minor modification
16:33<gbee>just need to pad out the string with spaces
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16:49<matooke>How can I have MythTV display channel icons in the program guide? The option to have it display these icons does not have any effect. Thanx.
16:50<xris>matooke: you'll get a better answer if you ask in the proper channel
16:50<matooke>and which channel is it?
16:51[~]xris recommends checking the topic or the PM you received when you joined
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17:04<gbee>difference with the OSD scroller is that it's simply moving a textarea across the screen, it doesn't have to worry about the clipping at the left/right margins because it's offscreen so you can't see it
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17:25<gbee>if the opengl painter supported SetClipRect() I might call DrawSelf directly ...
17:30<gbee>heh, I've been looking at this entirely the wrong way
17:32<gbee>jams: didn't you say you'd also been looking at scrolling?
17:44[~]gbee gives up
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17:49<Chutt>scrolling text will mess up the text caching in the gl painter. heh
17:50<Chutt>gbee, it shouldn't be _that_ hard to implement some simple clipping in the gl painter
17:51<gbee>Chutt: probably not, I'm just having trouble seeing past my original idea at the moment, maybe after I get some sleep I can start fresh in the morning
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17:52<Chutt>what was your original idea?
17:57<gbee>http://pastebin.ca/840500
17:58<gbee>rough around the edges, it works perfectly assuming the string is smaller than the textarea, but not so well with longer strings (glitches when repeating because of the change in justification)
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18:54<zahna>hey, when i save my position in a show, where is that position data stored? i ask because i'm having a problem saving my position in recorded shows.
18:55<gbee>recordedmarkup table
18:55<zahna>excellent, thanks.
18:59<gbee>"I want to use <insert external player here> because I download a lot of pirated films and tv shows which come in <insert some obscure format> and want to play them without uncompressing them from <insert some equally obscure format> first. I like to use the external subtitle files, but I'm too lazy to delete the ones which aren't in my language. I also need to use the Hansmeyer-Reyes-Smith-Bluebottle filter from the <insert random pro
18:59<gbee>raphics calculator using two bits of piano wire and bluetack."
19:06[~]kormoc chuckles
19:07<Chutt>gbee, probably shouldn't change the m_Area value
19:07<Chutt>i really think just clipping and duplicating the text string twice should work best
19:07<Chutt>(for a straight scroll)
19:09<gbee>Chutt: I'll start again tomorrow and try other approaches
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19:20<sid>silly
19:20<sid>It should be #mythtv-dev, or #mythtv-devel that would seem much more logical/convenient for everyone.
19:20<sid>instead of telling people everyday that this is the dev channel
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19:28<kormoc>cause the ideas of a self proclaimed unstable and random person will change minds after all this time...
19:48<Tanthrix>gbee: By the way, I tried the internal player again today as I said I would. It's worked with every network mounted DVD ISO I've thrown at it so far. (All my main storage is on my main computer, which is where I keep ISOs of all of my dvds, as well as a backup of 60 hours of home movies I recently converted to dvd)
19:49<Tanthrix>gbee: Better and faster than xine as well. My matroska HD files aren't working at all though, just doing the NVP buffer issue instead with an all black screen. Still, a big improvement on my past experiences.
19:54<gbee>Tanthrix: glad to hear it's working well for you
19:54<gbee>well except for matroska problems which are well known
19:56<Tanthrix>gbee: It's also slower than mplayer at skipping in divx files, and makes crazy audio squeaks when skipping plus buffer overflow errors, but those aren't too big of a deal.
19:58<Tanthrix>Not sure if the latter is common or not, could be something with my setup.
20:01<gbee>Tanthrix: skipping can be massively improved by building seektables for the videos
20:02<gbee>mythcommflag --rebuild --video filename
20:04<Tanthrix>Good to know. Not to be crass, but why does myth need such a thing when xine/mplayer can skip instantly without any such thing?
20:05<Tanthrix>Just a different way to seek than what they use?
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20:07<gbee>Tanthrix: they can skip instantly, but not accurately, by building a seektable mythtv can do frame accurate skipping and smoother ffw/rew etc
20:08<Tanthrix>gbee: Ahh, I see. Yah, as far as I know, mplayer can't do ffw/rew.
20:09<gbee>in order to skip etc you need to know what point in the file is equal to the time unit you want to skip by, e.g. 1 minute might be 36,163 bytes ahead in the file
20:11<gbee>mplayer etc just make guesses based on average frame rate etc, so although you are asking them to skip 1 minute forward in the video, they might actually do something from 45 seconds to 1 minutes 15 seconds
20:12<gbee>when you build a seektable in mythtv, we go through the file at high speed and record the location of every keyframe, so when you skip 1 minute you move exactly one minute in the video
20:12<Anduin>We still don't seem to do good fallback seeking all the time, comparing only to ffplay.
20:13<gbee>yeah, that's something we could improve
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20:32<gbee>yay, looks like the BBCs EIT data is missing for times after midnight and I'm stuck with EIT because xmltv is down as well
20:41<Chutt>fallback seeking used to be much better :/
20:41<Chutt>i wonder when it broke
20:45<zahna>gbee: thanks for your help earlier. it turns out my recordedmarkup table was crashed and needed to be repaired.
20:48<zahna>out of curiosity, what all is recordedmarkup used for? i have >300,000 entries in my table.
20:49<zahna>also, is there a good way to "clean" the tables of old, unused data?
20:51<zahna>(or would someone in #mythtv-users know how to accurately answer this question?)
20:51<Anduin>Yes
20:52<zahna>thought so. what about the recordedmarkup question?
20:53<zahna>n'mind. i'll ask over there. thanks again for the help earlier.
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---Logclosed Tue Jan 01 00:00:14 2008