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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2008-01-23

---Logopened Wed Jan 23 00:00:40 2008
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00:37<reynaldo>Hi hall
00:37<reynaldo>hall/all
00:38<reynaldo>about plugin coding, is coding an event handler a must or you can just go and register some callbacks over certain element's states
00:38<reynaldo>like button1 -> on focus / blu / click
00:38<reynaldo>blur
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00:40<reynaldo>Im confused on how does it work, I have seen both, 'connect' calls and custom event handlers in the source
00:40<reynaldo>would love some enlightment :)
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01:16<psm321>hi
01:19<psm321>i was tracking down a segfault in the Program Finder, have a rough idea of what's causing it but having a bit of trouble comprehending exactly what the code is doing or supposed to do in terms of reformatting names starting with A/An/The... who should I talk to about that? (the problem is that theres a name that goes through the processing and comes out with , An on the end... which breaks the SQL query an theres no check for 0 results,
01:19<psm321>having trouble figuring out why other names that appear like they should go through that processing don't)
01:24<psm321>The title in question is "An Inconvenient Truth" (reformatted to "Inconvenient Truth, An") in case someone else wants to track it down... whenever I select that and hit the right arrow it segfaults. I'd be happy to help and/or provide what I've figured out so far... going to bed soon so please PM me (hard to track things down in backlog)
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02:35<wormz>hey!
02:36<wormz>at the moment I'm running oxine, though want to change to mythtv. I don't have a capture card yet, I just use the machine to watch movies and play music, will mythtv run just as a divx / dvd player?
02:36<wormz>Whoops!
02:36<wormz>sorry, just read the channel doc
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02:41<justinh>clever: you know, you should update themes as well when you update the code
02:44<clever>i didnt update the code and break the themes
02:45<clever>i think it was Anduin
02:47<justinh>no I mean, when you svn up with the code, svn up with themes too
02:47<justinh>changes in the code break themes sometimes. themes sometimes get fixed :)
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03:00<justinh>i.e. clever, update your themes once in a while
03:01<clever>ah
03:01<clever>and i was wondering if you even fixed the theme:P
03:01<clever>and do you have a svn tracker for your theme?:P
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03:37<superm1>stuarta, i was looking at adding metallurgy to apt in Ubuntu possibly. what license are you planning on attaching to it?
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03:37<hads>superm1: You mean gbee
03:37<superm1>oops yeah :)
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03:38<superm1>i saw stuart on the website, and didn't think when i typed in irc
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03:38<hads>I've done that before :)
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04:07<hads>Can someone update PROTO_VERSION in mythplugins/mythvideo/mythvideo/scripts/MythTV.py when they get a chance please.
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04:59<janneg>stuarta: I try to work on 1866 if I have time. the first point should be fixed, point 3 might be fixed
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06:30<justinh>do I have an svn tracker? wth?
06:31<justinh>if you use svn mythtv, use themes from svn & update everything at the same time. not necessarily the case I always fix things pronto but...
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06:36<gbee>mythcontrols gets the mythui treatment today, then maybe I'll have to face mythweather unless anyone can think of another easy plugin?
06:36<justinh>I thought mythweather already used mythui
06:36<gbee>nope
06:38<justinh>doh I must have got confused with mythzoneminder
06:38<justinh>knew one of the plugins used it
06:39<justinh>btw I'll check out mythappearance tonight & give it the once & twice over. if I get a chance. had most of the morning off so will have to work late
06:39<gbee>mythzm doesn't use it either, AFAIK none of the plugins did until mythappearance
06:39<justinh>wonder where I picked up that it did then, could've sworn at least one used it
06:39<gbee>justinh: I left the reloadtheme bit commented out, I know there is a simple solution but I just can't see it
06:40<gbee>to the best of my knowledge, nowhere in mythtv uses mythui (except the menus and even they don't do so properly)
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06:47<gbee>well the only other place is the background window, base.xml
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06:49<justinh>this jump point thing is going to bug haunt me for a bit longer. I'll mess about with it some & see what happens
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06:53<gbee>justinh: it will work fine if I can just find the right place to put it, so that it's executed after we've closed the window, it would be easier if I could stick an customEvent handler in main.cpp
06:54<justinh>yeah I was thinking something along those lines. be able to handle ESCAPE then too I think
06:55<gbee>when we exit the main menu mythmainmenu sends an EXITTOMAINMENU event that we could use to trigger the reload
06:56<gbee>another option is emitting a signal when we close the appearance screen, but that again requires a QObject class to receive it
06:57<gbee>I'll figure it out, it's more a case of not knowing the plugin structure well enough than anything
06:57<justinh>side step it altogether by not having it as a plugin anymore, though I don't think only one section of the setup menus could use mythui & others not
07:03<gbee>it could easily be added to the setup menus as a mythui app, but it couldn't be integrated with the appearance settings because they use the settings wizard (a sort of bastardised construct built upon libmyths uitypes and various QT stuff)
07:05<justinh>this is where the difference between me knowing my onions & just being able to cobble a thing together really comes to light
07:07<gbee>spend enough time poking around the various areas of mythtv and you pick up these things
07:08<gbee>I reminded that the settings stuff is a bit of a mess, the _old_ code for reading settings from an external config file is still in there, not used for anything as far as I'm aware
07:10<gbee>settings code is probably the most unloved part of mythtv, like an attic where all the old junk is stored, full of cobwebs and maybe a dead body locked in a trunk
07:11<justinh>not even tempted to glibly suggest a look into it when 0.21 is clear
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07:15<justinh>hmm where to put this config option? I know, I'll ask on the -dev list. uhoh.. ;)
07:17<justinh>wife got mildly annoyed last night when she found emmerdale hadn't recorded. it was called Emmerdale: thicker than blood or something, which is why myth didn't record it. didn't figure that after so many years it'd one day end up with a subtitle in its title :(
07:17<justinh>custom record rule will stop that happening in future but still... grrr @ Radio times
07:20<clever>i had a similar problem with a show i watch here
07:20<clever>they renamed it one week and i nearly missed it
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07:38<purserj>justinh: I've been hit by that. The local version of the BBC likes to play silly buggers with the EPG and put both the show title and episode title into the Show Title field
07:45<stuarta>afternoon chaps
07:45<stuarta>here's an interesting crash
07:45<stuarta>pure virtual method called
07:45<stuarta>terminate called without an active exception
07:46<stuarta>thats it, nothing else apart from the usual EIT messages
07:47<justinh>are we gonna need tv grabber fixups next?!
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08:02<gbee>looking at mythcenter critically, it wasn't really designed with enough care, little things like textareas too small for the font size used, or too big etc
08:03<gbee>apart from the menus which are ok (if you like that sort of thing) the other screens didn't get the same loving
08:04<gbee>think we need to change the clock to match the mythtv logo at the bottom left
08:04<justinh>I have a dislike of anything modelled on MCE & certainly anything with 'center' in its name (spelled like that)
08:04<gbee>:D
08:04<justinh>don't even have to see it to dislike it. quite irrational
08:06<gbee>gbee founds the "Defense Fund for English Spelling"
08:07<gbee>(yes, the spelling of Defence is wrong, I'm being ironic before anyone leaps to correct me)
08:09<justinh>lol
08:10<stuarta>Defense Fund 4 Enleesh Speeling
08:10<justinh>heard somebody on radio 4 once say that the Americanized (sic) spelling of our words mostly stems from us. e.g. 'color' was in use around Shakespear's day etc..
08:11<gbee>before we started writing dictionaries spelling was pretty fluid
08:12<gbee>they just forgot to take a dictionary with them to the New World and literacy wasn't that high back then
08:15<gbee>I think there might just have been a bit of rebellion in choosing to use different spellings from their mother country too, when the first American dictionary was written they could have just fallen into line but it seems to have been a concious decision to preserve their differences
08:19<janneg>stuarta: have you ever heard of "Error: offset>181, pes length & current can not be
08:19<janneg>queried"
08:20<janneg>resulting in corrupt mysql tables
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08:26<stuarta>hmmm
08:26<gbee>greedy deint doesn't work for animation, family guy looks like the screen is smeared in vaseline
08:27*stuarta chuckles
08:27<justinh>oooeerr missus
08:28<stuarta>janneg: that vaguely rings a bell but i couldn't say anything that would be of use.
08:32<janneg>there was a post on the linuxtv ml. I replied he should post with more details to mythtv dev
08:36<gbee> justinh: thought you might like to know that the fade can be disabled without too much work, I'm just not sure if it should be defined in the theme (not sure where it would go) or as setting somewhere
08:37<justinh>oooo
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08:39<justinh>I think abstracting it so the user could have a choice of transitions would work better than it being theme defined. not fussed too much personally
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08:42<justinh>wonder how long it'd take to tire of the 3d cube effect mythgallery has
08:46<stuarta>7 cups of coffee is my guess
08:48<janneg>Chutt, Snow-Man: I've just got challenge response spam from someone subscribed to mythtv-dev. do we accept that?
08:49<stuarta>i don't
08:50<janneg>me neither and I will just ignore it. just asking if we want to kick him from the ml
08:53<stuarta>good idea
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10:03<roothorick>this is going to sound silly but
10:04<roothorick>I want to conserve battery power on my laptop by reading DVDs in bursts while playing them
10:04<roothorick>like, read 300MB into RAM as fast as the drive can go, play it all back straight from RAM while the drive spins down, then read another 300MB and so on
10:05<roothorick>I was paging through the manpage but don't see an option along those lines... is there a way to do that or something similar with mplayer?
10:14<justinh>you're right/ it does sound silly to ask a question about mplayer in a mythtv development channel
10:15<roothorick>...wow
10:15<roothorick>I'm really freaking tired
10:15<roothorick>I could've sworn I joined #mplayer
10:28<gbee>would it really save power anyway? I'd imagine spinning at 1x speed for the duration of the movie would use a similar amount of power to spinning at 48x speed for a while every 10 minutes
10:29<gbee>probably not the best place to have that debate though
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11:51<Chutt>gbee, hey, so, with mythui
11:51<Chutt>the intent was to thread off screen creation
11:51<Chutt>so it wouldn't block the ui =)
11:51<Chutt>thoughts on that?
11:54<gbee>what sort of situations do you imagine that helping with? Generally I'd guess that if we're creating a new screen we won't want to interact with the current one - or am I missing something, like creating screens in the background for faster navigation?
11:55<gbee>or preventing screen creation blocking stuff like animation in the background?
11:55<Chutt>putting up a busy symbol or whatnot
11:55<Chutt>so it doesn't look like it's just paused
11:55<gbee>right, that makes sense then
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11:56<GreyFoxx>That'd be nice
11:57<GreyFoxx>a popup spinning clock, or some dude running in place or whatever.
11:57<GreyFoxx>for the impatient people :)
11:59<gbee>you have some idea where you'd create the thread? If Create() was called by MythScreenType during construction and threaded off, with an event at completion?
11:59<gbee>I fishing for ideas since you've probably given this a lot of thought
12:01<gbee>GreyFoxx: in most cases screen creation isn't going to take very long (less than a second) but there might be a few where it takes long enough to justify a busy symbol
12:03<gbee>Chutt: you've pushed me to think about something new and I'd just got comfortable with mythui ;)
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12:11<gbee>Chutt: I'll have to get back to you, if you want me to sort it out
12:12<gbee>I'll have to figure out how best to do it and my brain isn't firing on all cylinders tonight
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12:18<superm1>gbee, did you see my question about licensing on your theme?
12:20<gbee>superm1: no, sorry, but I've just read it - GPL, but it's not finished yet
12:21<superm1>gbee, okay well would you be opposed to me putting an early version into Ubuntu and then updating to the newer version when its ready? We have a feature freeze coming up Feb 14, so there are a few areas it would have to pass to get in first
12:21<gbee>superm1: ok, np
12:22<okolsi>nice.. [1557], hopefully now the dupdetection for "Waking the Dead" reruns works :)
12:22<superm1>gbee, okay when you have a few moments, can you just pop a COPYING file in the archive its distributed in? (It's a requirement for our licensing)
12:22<gbee>superm1: sure
12:22<superm1>thanks
12:24<gbee>going to discuss getting it into trunk for 0.21
12:26<sphery>Anyone know why we have a displayname for inputs, but we don't use it in the backend status page? Just one of those, "no one has written the code" things?
12:26<sphery>It's only used in LiveTV when changing cards/inputs
12:26<okolsi>gbee: tiny issue with Metallurgy.. you have moment or should I send mail?
12:27<gbee>okolsi: what is it?
12:27<okolsi>gbee: the background starts in MythMusic are maybe 1-3 pixels off..
12:28<gbee>sphery: yeah, I've wondered the same thing - there are a few places we should really be using it (backed status page is the only one I can think of right now)
12:28<gbee>okolsi: ahh, yeah I've noticed that, will be fixed when I release the next version
12:28<gbee>they start in sync, then slowly drift out of place
12:29<sphery>Hmmm. OK, thanks, gbee. Since a power failure at home put my dev box's NIC in a no-wakeonlan state (can't do the heavy dev I planned to do), I may write up a quick patch.
12:29<okolsi>gbee: okay.. nice and great work! those background stars are VERY good idea
12:29<justinh>GreyFoxx: and who would have to draw said animated thingies?
12:29<gbee>it's got something to do with the way UIRepeatImage works
12:30<justinh>too fiddly by half all that gbee :)
12:31<justinh>then again I swear if I have to make a border fit round a blackhole again it'll be too soon
12:33<sphery>BTW, gbee, another easy plugin to convert to mythui would be mythhello (and follow on)... I don't know how the devs feel about including one or both of them in trunk (by default not built), but I think it might be "nice" to do it for budding devs.
12:33<gbee>gee, I'm popular tonight
12:33<sphery>Though if we do, I think someone should make a plea on the -dev list that some user do the conversion based off your work on MythAppearance so you can work on more interesting things.
12:34<justinh>I don't mind having a bash at helping out with mythui conversion
12:34<sphery>I should say, though, I haven't looked at either, so I don't know how close they are to being ready for inclusion.
12:34<gbee>I've considered converting mythhello and will probably do it when I'm bored, but figured that converting real plugins was a better use of my time for now
12:35<justinh>sphery: what usually happens when an appeal for work to be done goes out is... silence :)
12:35<sphery>Agreed. Would you rather do it yourself than have one of the people on the -dev list who have been playing with it do it?
12:35<sphery>That's true. I guess I'm hopelessly optimistic.
12:35<gbee>I'm only doing plugins right now because they are nicely self contained and the ones I've chosen are fairly small
12:36<justinh>oh, you're making a new UI library? great! when will it be finished?
12:36<sphery>I heard it will be in 0.20.
12:37<okolsi>sphery: thanks for your input/solution for #4436
12:39<justinh>not sure I like the look of the 'usability improvement' ideas on the -dev list. ability to change keybindings from help screens? everything workable from 5 buttons? popup menus all over the place? que sera
12:42<sphery>okolsi: Heh. Glad it turned out to be a solution. I almost didn't post it because it was late and my brain was only half working. I was planning to get you a patch today, but it seems that David has it under control. (At least it's a /very/ trivial patch.)
12:43<gbee>justinh: let them try and do it, it will probably be the last we hear of them
12:45<gbee>I don't think making everything work using just 5 buttons adds to usability or is even feasible, the remote controls we use right now have evolved over 40 years and involved the collective minds of thousands of people, how many of them have just 5 buttons?
12:45<justinh>I know a remote with only 6 :)
12:46<gbee>apple remote doesn't count - ask Stuarta how 'usable' that is ;)
12:46<justinh>found a new setting I didn't know about the other day. arrow key accelerators in mythfrontend itself
12:46<stuarta>hey it works!
12:46<justinh>no more accidental quitting of screens now :)
12:47<sphery>I didn't get the impression the OP planned to do much trying, just talking... :)
12:47<justinh>ah a motivational speaker
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12:48<justinh>well, I'm fairly proud to be able to say I yabbered on & on about the appearance movey arrow thingy & now look :)
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12:48<justinh>got there in the end (almost)
12:48<sphery>Yeah, but I actually believed you would a) stick around, and b) put some work into it, so that didn't surprise me.
12:49<stuarta>we all gotta start somewhere
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12:49<justinh>oh dear hell. "draw me a cable", they said. "ok, how long is it", I asked. "We don't know yet", they say. "What connectors do you want on each end?" I ask. "We don't know that either"...
12:49<sphery>Hmmm. I'm finding that the Encoder Status section of the backend status page lists only encoders (capture cards), and /not/ inputs. That may explain the lack of input display names.
12:49<stuarta>i've not so much as tickled a widget
12:49<gbee>I'm still trying to find the setting (or otherwise) that allows the #num ->Arrow jump stuff to work
12:49<justinh>try it, she might like it
12:50<stuarta>heh
12:50<stuarta>she does
12:50<stuarta>;-)
12:50<gbee>never has worked on one frontend, works on the other though
12:50<sphery>gbee: during playback?
12:50<gbee>sphery: yeah
12:50<justinh>doesn'
12:50<sphery>I don't even know how that can be disabled.
12:50<justinh>does that not just work by default?
12:51<justinh>having a non-borked seektable helps though
12:51<gbee>sphery: well that just makes it even stranger, guess I'll have to look into tv_play.cpp and figure out what should happen and why it doesn't on that frontend
12:52<justinh>sphery: btw I want it known to all & sundry I'm a big advocate of just getting stuck in. whining "I can't code" isn't gonna get stuff coded
12:52<justinh>it's not PC to say that in public though
12:53<gbee>bbl, going to eat
12:53<justinh>bbl, going home :)
12:54<sphery>gbee: I think it's the ARBSEEK stuff in tv_play.cpp, but I haven't traced through all the code
12:55<sphery>ARBSEEK itself is a key binding (normally to '*'), so I wonder if your not-working frontend will work if you request that mode specifically
12:58<sphery>gbee: tv_play.cpp +2704 (and others). It doesn't seem possible to disable it, so you may have found a bug.
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14:13<gbee>sphery: thanks for that, I'll take a look and try to figure out why it's not working :)
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14:22<gbee>gnome42: with your two patches applied I've yet to lose a recording, may be too early to be sure, but it's looking like a fix
14:30<gnome42>gbee: oh, hi gbee.
14:31<gnome42>gbee: Oh, I was under the impression that the problem was something to do with the device driver? (saw some links to patches)
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14:32<gbee>gnome42: that was just one theory because the Nova-T 500 (or any devices based on the chipset) has had numerous problems in the past
14:32<gnome42>gbee: STill, very glad to hear you are back in action :)
14:33<gbee>I didn't think that the driver was to blame since there were no accompanying kernel log messages, which are normal for the DVB USB bugs
14:34<gbee>besides which I'm running the latest driver, patched with fixes for the bugs and the best firmware, together those are supposed to fix the problems
14:35<gbee>and if that wasn't enough, I only started losing recordings with these same symptoms after I started using multirec
14:39<gnome42>yeah, ok. So, it's working now but we are not sure of the root cause. I don't have clear idea of how either of those patches could actually fix your problems.
14:40<gnome42>If the 'find good channel' fixed the problem there would be clear messages in the logs that you would have spotted.
14:40<gbee>maybe it's coincidental, it's just a big coincidence
14:42<gbee>I thought the flags patch was supposed to be a fix for this problem? Even if you can see why it works, you at least had an idea?
14:45<gbee>s/can/can't/
14:46<gbee>either I'm missing a netsplit, or I'm talking crazy tonight and everyone is ignoring me :)
14:46<gnome42>just rechecking that now ...
14:46<gbee>ok
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14:51<gnome42>gbee: ok, that flags patch only kicks in during livetv channel changes on the same mux.
14:52<janneg>gbee: the error description of the second patch matched exactly the behaviour in your mythtv log
14:52<gbee>ahh, well that explains the livetv reference in the comment
14:52<gbee>janneg: driver patch, or gnome's patch?
14:52<janneg>driver patch
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14:53<gnome42>yeah, I bet my nickel on the driver patch too :)
14:53<gbee>janneg: that's what I thought at the time you posted the link, but I've not installed that patch yet and so far I've not lost a recording
14:54<gbee>in the first few days of multirec I was losing one recording every other night
14:57<gbee>doesn't really matter to me how it was fixed, as long as it's fixed, so I won't argue over it ;)
14:57<gnome42>would be good to know though :)
14:59<hads>Could someone update PROTO_VERSION in mythplugins/mythvideo/mythvideo/scripts/MythTV.py when they get a chance please.
15:00<gnome42>gbee: You mentioned running the latest driver and fixes earlier. Is it possible the patch janneg mentioned has slipped into your kernel somehow?
15:01<gbee>gnome42: no, the patch was only posted to the v4l mailing list after I installed the updated driver/firmware etc
15:01<gbee>hads: ping Anduin
15:01<gnome42>ok
15:02<hads>gbee: Normally I would but I figured since it's a one character change that anyone could do it.
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15:05<gbee>hads: I'd only increment the protocol in that python binding if I knew that the bindings supported the protocol change
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15:06<hads>[15551] which updated the mythweb protocol number says there's no functional change in the commit.
15:06<Captain_Murdoch>gbee, there weren't really any changes to the protocol except for backend servers. so it can be bumped from 37 to 38 without modifying clients.
15:06<janneg>I'll do it
15:07*Captain_Murdoch was about to, but doesn't care who does.
15:07<gbee>Captain_Murdoch: fair enough, I didn't look at the actual change, I just made an assumption that if the version was incremented it had the potential to break the bindings
15:07<hads>Sorry, I should have been clearer, I do check and would have provided a patch if nessecary.
15:07<Captain_Murdoch>it was so trivial that I forgot to make the change, then I realized that if someone upgraded a master without upgrading a slave or vice versa then it could cause issues so I had to do another commit to bump the version.
15:08<gbee>heh
15:08<hads>Thanks janneg :)
15:09<Captain_Murdoch>I think I'm the one that suggested adding the file locations to mythcontext.h so people wouldn't forget which files to change and now I forgot one. :(
15:09<gbee>maybe we need a checklist of the places where the protocol and other versioning numbers are used so they don't get overlooked
15:09<gbee>:)
15:09<Captain_Murdoch>already there in mythcontext.h, I just didn't read it at 1:30AM last night.
15:10<Captain_Murdoch>needed to be in flashing text. :)
15:10<gbee>the db version and library version come to mind, though I don't know if mythweb checks the DB version?
15:10<hads>If I do some more work on those bindings to make them more complete then they could sit with the Perl bindings which would make it less hidden.
15:10<Captain_Murdoch>not sure if mythweb checks db version or just protocol. lib version is only changed in one place, mythcontext.h.
15:10<xris>gbee: I doubt it does
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15:12<blizzkid>lo all, I loaded em28xx driver, but don't have a /dev/video0, what can be wrong?
15:12<gbee>blizzkid: #mythtv-users
15:12<blizzkid>k gbee
15:12<gbee>or #linuxtv
15:14<janneg>the number of lines in the programinfo query has also adjusted in the same file as proto version
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15:32<justinh>oh gawd. wth has happened to uk_rt now? only got 8 days' data left
15:34<Captain_Murdoch>janneg?? my commit didn't touch that, so if it'd different, it's left around from a previous change.
15:34<gbee>justinh: just checked a couple of channels on the radiotimes xmltv site and there is data for two weeks
15:39*gnome42 steps out
15:39<gbee>There's guide data until 2008-02-05 06:00 (13 days).
15:41<janneg>Captain_Murdoch: it was only hypothetical. I wanted to write files but it is actually not true
15:41<Captain_Murdoch>oh, yeah, makes sense. I thought you were saying they were off.
15:41<janneg>the mythtv C++ define is not in mythcontext but programinfo.h
15:41<Captain_Murdoch>yeah
15:42<janneg>I haven't checked
15:43<Captain_Murdoch>if programinfo.h has a note added, it should also say to change the proto version in mythcontext.h when # of lines is changed.
15:43<janneg>but they are off
15:43<Captain_Murdoch>I think someone added something to the programinfo layout a month or so back.
15:44<janneg>it's actually smaller in programinfo.h
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15:47<janneg>storage group addition updated NUMPROGRAMLINES in programinfo.h last
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15:48<janneg>is there a particular reason why the answer hasn't a length field
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15:49<Captain_Murdoch>I've wondered that for years. I've wanted to add that as the first field, but never did.
15:49<Captain_Murdoch>would make things easier, wouldn't have to break as much stuff when we changed things if we just tacked new items onto the end.
15:51<gbee>it's a very good idea
15:51<Captain_Murdoch>if it was storagegroup then has it been broken for over a year?
15:53<Captain_Murdoch>weren't audio and video properties, originalairdate, and hasairdate added later according to annotate?
15:54<Captain_Murdoch>so it's probably been broken since they were added and that was 6 months ago.
15:55<janneg>I'm not sure where NUMPROGRAMLINES is used
15:56<janneg>mythweb has both 43 and 46
15:56<xris>huh?
15:56<janneg>perl binding uses 46
15:56<janneg>xris: mythplugins/mythweb/objects/MythTV.php:11: var $NUMPROGRAMLINES = 43;
15:56<gbee>Captain_Murdoch: got a changeset number for the audio/video properties one?
15:56<hads>MythTV.py has 46 at the moment
15:57<xris>sounds like whoever bumped it up in the backend never updated mythweb
15:58<gbee>I might have changed the protocol at the time, I can't remember but since they just replaced the hdtv and stereo fields I don't know why I would have needed to extend it
16:00<Captain_Murdoch>gbee, 13952 added them it appears.. http://cvs.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/13952/trunk/mythtv/libs/libmythtv/programinfo.cpp
16:00<hads>That would have been when the PROTO went from 34 to 35 too.
16:03<Captain_Murdoch>http://cvs.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/13952 is the full log.
16:04<gbee>yeah, mea culpa
16:04<gbee>but I did increment mythweb in http://cvs.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/13969
16:05<gbee>I just missed the perl bindings
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16:08<gbee>so which locations did I miss? mythplugins/mythweb/objects/MythTV.php and where else?
16:08<gbee>xris: any reason why mythweb defines NUMPROGRAMLINES in two different places?
16:09<xris>objects is something kormoc put in, but isn't really hooked up yet. mythweb/includes/mythbackend.php is the main one
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16:12<gbee>xris: ok
16:12<gbee>I've fixed programinfo.h (used in remoteutil.cpp @ 318)
16:12<xris>we should probably get in touch with him to find out if anything at all is using that new object method (it's basically a port of the perl bindings to php) and get stuff moved out of the way before .21
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16:29<Anduin>hads: I've made a note, I'll get to it tonight if someone else doesn't.
16:29<hads>Anduin: Thanks, it's done already.
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16:51<janneg>Anduin: it's already fixed
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17:34<gbee>spoke too soon about the failed recording bug :(
17:35<gbee>thankfully it's repeated
17:43<gbee>janneg: the version of the latest driver patch which you pastebin'd has expired from the server before I made a copy - http://paste.debian.net/47379
17:43<gbee>I can make the changes myself if you can let me know the device name
17:44<gbee>nevermind, just noticed that you posted a copy to the list
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17:49<janneg>gbee: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-NOVA-T-500#Drivers lists a third patch which improves reception
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17:52<gbee>ok, thank you, applying that one as well
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17:55<gbee>think I need to start using a proper hg checkout, using a 3 week old snapshot atm and that last patch only applied with offsets
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18:07<janneg>gbee: the last patch was from december. a never checkout won't help
18:07<gbee>janneg: noticed, but I grab a newer checkout all the same
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18:20<gbee>janneg: with those two patches applied I'm getting tuning errors - http://pastebin.ca/870273
18:25<janneg>gbee: try removing MT1060_IF1_freq_set.diff, I haven't tested it
18:25<gbee>ok
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18:28<gbee>btw, is there some argument I can pass at build time to create gzipped modules? My distro uses modules with the ko.gz extension and so they don't get overwritten when I install the new ones, that causes problems with modprobe using the wrong versions
18:28<gbee>I'm manually deleting the originals atm, but it's a pain
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18:29<janneg>gbee: I don't know
18:32<gbee>np, I'll work it out, even if I have to script something to delete the distro versions
18:32<gbee>reverting that patch fixes it
18:33<gbee>this is with force_lna_activation=1 if it makes any difference
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18:51<gnome42>janneg: http://zeke.yi.org/mythtv/fixes/mythtv_15497_fixup.diff
18:52<gnome42>I have to run now but I hope that fixes #4508 too
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19:18<janneg>gnome42: I got meaning of excluded wrong in this context. thanks
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19:32<MrGandalf>excluded from being excluded :)
19:32<justinh>hahaha just googled my xmltv error 6400 & found rtfm.net - not abbreviated though
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19:34<justinh>and the only other error 6400 I can find is something I posted an answer to. pfft
19:34-!-dabtech [n=dab@166.128.90.89] has joined #mythtv
19:35<justinh>Wrong number of fields in XMLTV channel_ids file. wha?! since when m'lud?
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19:39<knowledgejunkie_>justinh: which version?
19:39<justinh>er.. dunno. lemme check
19:39<justinh>XMLTV module version 0.5.49
19:40<knowledgejunkie_>which version of channel_ids?
19:40<justinh>I think I'd know if I'd monged a config file
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19:41<justinh>same release date as xmltv. it's been worky, that's the funny thing. I've really not messed with any files. no crashes, no reboots. nothing weird
19:41<justinh>bah I'll bung the latest on & see how I get on
19:42<knowledgejunkie_>it's got support now for Virgin1 on Freeview and any timeshifted channel you want
19:43<knowledgejunkie_>there must be a mismatch somewhere between the grabber script and the channel_ids file - it should only have 4 fields for 0.5.49 - newer versions have more
19:43<justinh>I've not touched the channel_ids file since I updated to 0.5.49
19:43<knowledgejunkie_>it should have given you a line number so you can find the culprit
19:44<justinh>it didn't. just said a wrong no of fields
19:44<justinh>well actually it said Wrong number of fields in XMLTV channel_ids file, aborting at /usr/bin/tv_grab_uk_rt line 169
19:45<justinh>anyway channel_ids has four fields
19:46<justinh>on with the upgrade
19:47<justinh>knowledgejunkie_: http://pastebin.ca/870353
19:51<justinh>course it helps if I use the right prefix. whoops
19:51<knowledgejunkie_>i guess that was still 0.5.49?
19:51-!-dabtech [n=dab@166.128.90.89] has quit []
19:52<knowledgejunkie_>There's going to be a new release (0.5.51) of xmltv in the next few days - the current release does not have support for timeshifted or part-time channels.
19:52<justinh>mixed up /usr & /usr/local here. perl is on /usr/local & I'd installed to /usr/ - so it was still using the old xmltv perl libs
19:53<justinh>I think it's almost time my backend had another reincarnation
19:55<justinh>keep the recordings, keep media & nfs shares, keep the database. bye bye distro
19:56<justinh>bah now it's 2008-01-24 00:55:27.078 FAILED: xmltv returned error code 29440
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20:00<xris>my backend is way overpowered... though I sort of wish I could re-think the partitioning scheme
20:01<justinh>time to do some much needed cleaning up I think. installing xmltv from source on top of packages reckoning I'd always just keep topping it up wasn't my best ever idea
---Logclosed Wed Jan 23 20:09:22 2008
---Logopened Wed Jan 23 20:09:26 2008
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20:11<justinh>knowledgejunkie: now I cleaned out the junk (stupid user!) all seems well & it's inserting boatloads of stuff :)
20:11<knowledgejunkie>justinh: that's better
20:11<justinh>was working fine last week. dunno wth changed
20:12<knowledgejunkie>justinh: running a release or CVS head?
20:12<justinh>release. it'll do for now. I can wait to get rt listings for virgin1 ;)
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20:13<briand>evening, Justin... got time for a quick question?
20:13<knowledgejunkie>cool. better get some sleep now
20:14<justinh>briand: depends :)
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20:14<justinh>nn knowledgejunkie
20:14<briand>it's harmless. :)
20:14<justinh>fire away
20:14<briand>i haven't been paying attention to the commit list for a couple months, and figured you probably were, at least tangentially...
20:15<briand>do you know or remember whether any memory leak fixing has been done in the playback module? here's why I ask...
20:15<briand>I had been having occasional 'lockups' (100% utilization on the machine, only escape is the big red switch...)
20:16<justinh>nothing comes to mind, though I tend to pick & choose what I read in any detail
20:16<briand>on two occasions, last november, I had lost my video card (and then its replacement, within a week) upon booting back up.
20:17<briand>at that time, I was getting these lockups with some regularity... typically, my uptime would be anywhere from 0 to maybe 15 days...
20:17<briand>well, I'm about to replace the second card (it arrives tomorrow), and I realized something...
20:17<briand>my mythtv box has been happily recording programs, and I've been viewing them via mythweb on my computer monitor...
20:17<justinh>just blame a mythtv theme from a .co.uk. it's convenient :)
20:17<briand>and the current uptime is at 61 days
20:18<briand>and, really, the only part of myth I haven't been using (that I was using prior to the video card blowups) is playback.
20:18<justinh>nah don't remember seeing anything playback related but that isn't to say there hasn't been anything
20:18<briand>so, I thought it possible that there is a mem leak in there, perhaps... and I've not had the problem because I've not been running that part of the code.
20:19*xris wishes that whatever is wrong with firewire (be it myth, fedora or comcast) would get fixed so he didn't have to reboot his box every few days
20:19<briand>it seems (to me, anyway) a valid conclusion given the circumstances of my situation.
20:19<justinh>could be a lot of other things in mythfrontend you'd normally use regularly
20:19<briand>such as?
20:19<justinh>anything else
20:19<briand>I only inquire because it's not becoming immediately apparent to me...
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20:20<briand>mythwelcome and mythfrontend are running... I'm just not using them, as I have no interface to see them with...
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20:21<justinh>I'd like to think if there was any kind of major leak in playback of recordings it'd have been spotted by now
20:21<briand>okay.. so it could also be invoking/closing/invoking/closing of mythfrontend, as I'd normally do, day-to-day... you have a point there...
20:21<briand>obviously, i haven't been doing _that_ either. :)
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20:21<justinh>ahh the perils of running it all in one box
20:22<briand>I've got all the commit messages (2,136 unread, at present), and I can scan thru them...
20:22<briand>but i just wondered if you happened to remember anything that might impact this situation crossing the sill, so to speak, over the past couple months...
20:23<briand>and I don't think it's a "major leak" anywhere... else, as you say, it'd have been spotted by now
20:23<justinh>just done a search of -commits & found only 4 references to leak & frontend. latest was on april 30 last year
20:23<briand>but a minor leak might very well accumulate and become "major", over time.
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20:24<briand>i may be one of only a few who runs mythwelcome and the FE, but doesn't choose to have mythwelcome actually shutdown or sleep the machine at any time.
20:24<justinh>much as you're not going to like it, maybe time to investigate with knobs on & experiment. watch memory usage like a hawk..
20:24<briand>(...which would, theoretically, 'clean' up the memory problem)
20:25<briand>in terms of development, unfortunately, I'm well-equipped to handle that task... if it were written in DOS (3.1 era), as that's the last time I did any sort of debugging like that.
20:25<briand>I don't even know where to start with linux debugging at that level
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20:26<justinh>nor do I, but even at a basic level linux has 'top' to tell you what's using what memory at a given time & I've seen people here talk about monitoring tools with fancy graphs & stuff
20:27<briand>i'm familiar with `top`, and I can certainly run that...
20:28<briand>so, I should just keep an eye on this line:
20:29<briand>Mem: 1035180k total, 722056k used, 313115k free, 16963k buffers
20:29<briand>??
20:29<justinh>I was thinking more on the lines of keeping an eye on what mythwelcome & mythfrontend are using
20:30<justinh>get top to sort by memory usage
20:32<briand>gotcha.. hmm. i can do that, and just keep track of it closely, after I get the new video card installed tomorrow afternoon...
20:33<briand>if mythfrontend and/or mythwelcome look like they're taking more and more memory as days (or hours??) go by, then that's a good place to start looking...
20:34<justinh>if your box is killing video cards though - I dont reckon that's a good sign either. and if mythwelcome/mythfrontend arent running as root there's no real way they can lock the machine AFAIK
20:34<justinh>this convo is now very much in the realm of the channel next door I think
20:34<briand>i don't know -what- is locking the machine... it doesn't lockup, like a seg fault, or anything...
20:35<briand>it just gets so busy that nothing else can run -- even my root logins via ssh aren't serviced, nor is the keyboard
20:36<briand>i don't know whether the video card killing is circumstance or happenstance, it could just be coincidence
20:36<justinh>anyway like I said.. more of a thing for the other channel
20:37<briand>no prob.. I understand. so the 'RES' column in `top` is what I should be monitoring, you think?
20:38-!-justinh [n=justinh@spc1-salf3-0-0-cust997.bagu.broadband.ntl.com] has left #mythtv ["man top"]
20:40<briand>..yes, well, without inputting a pithy "logoff message", I already know how to run top, and how to sort. I highly doubt the man pages are going to tell me how to track down a memory hog (if one exists) within the mythtv suite... but thanks, in absentia, for your help/pointers.
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20:42<briand>(and, yes, I understand he won't see that message... it was for the benefit of the lurkers and scrollback readers.) ;-)
20:43<briand>hiya danielk! how's that LNB working? (do you have it hooked up, yet?)
20:44<danielk22>erg, I have the LNB hooked up from the roof to my wire closet, but not to my dev machine. (it works though, I ran the signal over my antenna cable temporarily.)
20:47<clever>ive got a lnb+dish on the roof
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20:47<clever>the old owners of the house left it there when they moved out
20:47<briand>good, glad to hear it's providing -some- usefulness! :)
20:47<clever>i keep looking into what it might cost to get a card to use them on free channels
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20:48<briand>i've got three LNBs and dishes on the roof, but none of them are connected to a pc sat card, let alone a computer with myth stuff on it
20:48<clever>last i heard the lnb's up in canada probly wont hear the same freq band as the free sats
20:48<briand>sad part is, i bought xris's old SkyStar 2 card several months ago, and haven't gotten around to even taking it out of the box, yet!
20:48<clever>lol
20:49<briand>clever: most of the free sats use a linear LNB, DISHNet and Bell ExpressVu use circular LNBs
20:49<briand>on Ku band, anyway
20:49<clever>which matches up with past info about my lnb not being compatible
20:49<danielk22>clever, there are very few FTA channels on circular polarization that you can get with those little DishNet/DirectTV dishes, basically some demo channels + NASA. A linear polarization and a rotor will get a lot more.
20:50<xris>briand: not much change from when I owned it. :)
20:50<briand>I understand that there's some DVB free tv on the C-band, but I don't have a dish that size on my property, so I couldn't say for sure
20:50<briand>xris: exactly. :)
20:50<clever>danielk22: yeah i was thinking i can still fetch the unencrypted expressvu channels on the sat im allready pointing to(dont even know which one im realy pointed at)
20:50<rooaus>briand: Bout the leak, I used to have a *major* leak in the frontend that push the frontend 8-900 Meg into swap on a dedicated FE/BE with 1G ram. It has been fixed recently, not sure how or why.
20:50<xris>I sort of want to see if I can get clear QAM here with a newer card (couldn't get anything with a gen1 air2pc), but it's not worth the cost.
20:51<clever>the lnb is made for whatever its currently aimed at so it can hear it
20:51<briand>danielk22: I actually got the card so I could play with NASA TV on the 119 sat... wanted to extract the audio stream to relay it over local amateur radio
20:51<clever>but its probly 90% encrypted
20:51<briand>rooaus: how recently?
20:51<briand>clever: it's either DirecTV or DishNetwork.. both use very similar LNBs, and they can be cross-purposed. :)
20:51<danielk22>There are some Russian birds with circular polarization, but you need a mount that can rotate in X & Y (and of course MythTV would need to be enhanced with satellite tracking capability, but that might be fun.)
20:52<clever>the dish itself isnt oval
20:52<rooaus>briand: Um, last update I did. Box is off atm due to me doing some new cabling but definitely post multirec. There is a thread is -users bout it, lemme check...
20:52<briand>the LNB I sent to daniel is actually a DirecTV lnb, but it'll pick up DISHNetwork and ExpressVu as well...
20:52<briand>clever: the oval dishes are for the dual- and triple- (and quad-, etc) feeds
20:52<danielk22>braind, that should work. I've tuned NASA with a FTA card. (MythTV can't scan these right now though.)
20:53<rooaus>There was a recent fix for the signal monitor leaking threads IIRC.
20:53<xris>briand: that card won't talk to a dishnet LNB
20:53<briand>a single circular dish is fine
20:53<clever>briand: yeah, i thought so, and a few neighbors have some
20:53<xris>or rather, it won't talk to the diseqc switch
20:53<briand>xris: no? :( only linear, or can I use my combo LNB on my steerable dish with it?
20:53<briand>xris: ah, no problem there, then... I won't have a diseqc switch in the mix for that.
20:53<xris>there's just something funky about the diseqc stuff that dish uses in their "lnbf"
20:54<briand>the DirecTV LNBs don't have a built-in diseqc, whereas the DISH LNBs do...
20:54<xris>that's why I gave up on using it. didn't want to go to the effort of getting my own dish, lnb, diseqc, etc.
20:54<briand>so, unless I put one there, it should be okay (single-purposed, though it is)
20:55<danielk22>xris, does that include the new stuff, or just 'legacy' stuff ? The legacy stuff can be made to work with some special kernel drivers, but I thought the new stuff was all DiSEqC.
20:55<briand>i was going to grab up a yard sale dish and an old FTA receiver and 'donate' them to the radio club... the whole thing would be installed at the repeater tower for relaying the NASA audio anyway
20:56<xris>danielk22: not a clue... hadn't touched that stuff in about 2 years, but other than that, the dish stuff was new.
20:56<xris>briand: kind of cool
20:56<rooaus>briand: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/310992#310992
20:56<xris>I wonder if the seattlewireless group does anything like that on their network here.. nasa tv over flv. heh
20:57<briand>xris: we used to have it, years ago... with a c-band dish taking the feed directly off the NASA bird. that receiver broke, and the dish has fallen into disrepair. a Ku setup with (essentially) "free" equipment would be more ideal... and easier to replace (not to mention !!aim!!)
20:59<briand>rooaus: hmm. that may very well be it, then... I've been 'stuck' on 14884 since I lost the video card (yeah, I know... WAAAAY behind the curve, atm)
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20:59<xris>seattlewireless is like a radio club, but for 802.11.. heh. they have an intranet set up across many areas of seattle, and I think most of the access points also allow internet access. cool idea, but they're still just little pockets of connectivity.
21:00<briand>xris: i dunno.. worth checking into. Dish rebroadcasts the NASA c-band feed as a courtesy (mostly) to it's customers... and leaves it 'open' (mostly) as a courtesy to any non-customers that might scan their bird
21:01<briand>the amateur community is allowed to rebroadcast shuttle audio on amateur freqs, so our club (years ago) had been doing that during shuttle missions...
21:02<briand>i guess we could, in theory, do video as well, using Amateur Television... except that we cannot set up an ATV repeater here in Tallahassee... too close to gov't installations and the air base to our southwest. :(
21:02<MrGandalv>blah
21:03-!-MrGandalv is now known as MrGandalf
21:03<xris>briand: I think the seattle wireless guys are all too computer-geeky to mess with satellite stuff. too many more interesting things to do like build voip phones, etc.
21:03<briand>rooaus: thanks again, for the link/research/memory! :) I hope that's the fix I need for my situation here. :)
21:03<xris>man, completely just realized that we're not in -users. oops
21:04<briand>comcast here is now offering voip phone service... laughable, considering the reliability of the internet connection they provide.
21:04<clever>briand: something im mildly interested is seting up some kind of wireless ip link with a few km of range
21:04<briand>true enough, xris. :/ (oops, to the log-readers and/or powers-that-be)
21:04<MrGandalf>daniell22: (reading your reply tp clever) yes, you can get quite a few FTA channels in the US, but nothing particulary worth watching, unfortunately.
21:04<clever>briand: so i could get 'internet' access from the nearby woods
21:05<briand>clever: we can continue in -users, if you'd like. :)
21:05<clever>MrGandalf: yeah the main channels im interested in are the space channel(also called sci-fi channel)
21:05<clever>MrGandalf: cant even get that on my digital cable
21:06<MrGandalf>clever: than you would need to use more "clever" means to get it. ;)
21:06<clever>yeah but any encryption cracking talk is a no no here:P
21:07<briand>clever: in short, you can point it (a la 'microwave link') to a specific spot in those woods, or you can set up a wireless router that covers the area. either way, you're limited to 5 watts effective radiated power, unless you hold an FCC license (amateur or professional)
21:07<danielk22>mrgandalf, for me it's more about making mythtv work. But I think it's kinda entertaining to see ABC testing new correspondents or to see the Ohio News Network report on the weather.
21:07<MrGandalf>You don't have to go that far.. you can use a subscription
21:07<clever>briand: yeah, i could mix them
21:07<clever>briand: a microwave link type thing to a repeater in the 'center' of the woods
21:08<clever>the repeated would then broadcast over a circle over where id want most of the signal
21:08<MrGandalf>danielk22: Yes, there are some gems out there.. some of the wild feeds can be entertaining.. watching news people work their mouth mussles before they're on and such..
21:08<clever>briand: not much point in having 50% of my signal going out over the ocean so if i center the thing farther south id get more on land coverage
21:08<GreyFoxx>MrGandalf: What sort of rotor do you use ? I've got a couple unused dishes sitting around and thought I'd see just what I can find up there in the clear
21:09<briand>clever: an awful lot of time/expense and setup, just to surf the net while you're "hunting"
21:09<danielk22>hehe, I think chris is right though maybe this should be over in #mythtv-users...
21:09<clever>briand: havent gone hunting:P
21:09<clever>briand: but you could use a similar setup to spread webcams over the woods to track the prey
21:09<briand>GreyFoxx: you need an H-H rotor (horizon-to-horizon).. they're relatively inexpensive
21:09<MrGandalf>danielk22: There's no other on-topic talk going on..
21:10<MrGandalf>greyfox: Um, can't remember the brand..
21:10<rooaus>I am tweaking the "Autoexpire Instead of Delete" and looking for some advice RE settings.
21:10<briand>i don't remember what brand I have either, and it's too dark to climb up on the roof to look. :)
21:10<GreyFoxx>hehe
21:10<MrGandalf>it's a popular one though
21:10<MrGandalf>starts with an S
21:10<clever>briand: the 2nd bigest problem is the horid batery life on my laptops, and that probly doesnt even cover the special transciever i might need
21:10<clever>briand: just had an idea
21:11<clever>briand: send out a short long range pulse to get the house's system's attention
21:11<clever>briand: then a computer at the house triangulate me and aim the microwave link
21:11<clever>longer range and no repeater station
21:11<briand>clever: my first question is: do you hold an amateur radio license? things are *much* easier if you do...
21:11<clever>dont have one
21:11<rooaus>I have played with the settings and have something like: http://www.users.on.net/~camel/mythtv/ss/DeleteExpiry.png wondering if the separate expiry method is really needed for the deleted recordings?
21:12<briand>clever: get one. it's a simple test, administered for $14.00 :)
21:12<GreyFoxx>One of these days there should be a big NA mythtv gathering
21:12<clever>briand: id still need the actual hardware afterwards
21:12<briand>then, instead of being limited to 5 watts power, you could run up to 250 watts... and you'd have a whole 900MHz and 1.2GHz allocation to use without interfering with commercial air use...
21:12<clever>briand: seems a bit more cost effective to see if i can gather up the hardware first
21:13<clever>but i can use 5 watts without anything special?
21:13<briand>clever: just don't be tempted to run that equipment before you secure the license... the FCC fines start at 10,000 (and go up from there), plus confiscation of equipment...
21:13<rooaus>The main thing I want to implement is the "Deleted recordings max age" so they are definitely deleted after N days.
21:14<clever>briand: yeah id only be testing with the transmiter off, such as testing the servo's to aim the thing
21:14<briand>5 watts is what you can tweak the Linksys wireless routers up to without much problem... coverage, though, is omnidirectional and limited to just a few dozen yards (at best) through wooded terrain
21:14<GreyFoxx>I really should sit down one of these days and figure out why these mpeg's stutter on playback ever since the last ffmpeg sync
21:14<clever>ahhh
21:14<clever>briand: what if i added a directional antena to the router?
21:15<clever>to focus the power into a more contentrated beam
21:15<clever>or more of a 20 degree spread instead of 360
21:15<briand>clever: then the 'directionality' of the antenna would imply a greater 'effective radiated power' in the lobes in that direction... which would violate the law. :)
21:15<clever>ahhhh
21:16<clever>so the laws cover the effective power over an area
21:16<clever>so i cant get arround them by focusing it all in 1 beam
21:16<briand>you'd only need to interfere with one old codgers Dish network setup or garage door opener, or whatever... he'd complain to the FCC about "unknown interference" and they'd find your transmitter... then they'd find you. :)
21:16<clever>yeah
21:17<clever>except the warnings on the opener say it will accept any .......
21:17<briand>but, yes.. the FCC regulations specify "effective radiated power"...
21:17<clever>yeah
21:17<clever>also i dont have a linksys router
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21:18<briand>because, you could, for instance, run a 5 watt transmitter into a 21-element Yagi at 27dB gain, giving you 45 watts effective radiated power in that direction
21:18<clever>my wifi router is dlink, but i could allways go with a wifi card, but it would still be limited to the 5watt limit
21:18<briand>..assuming no line loss, of course. ;)
21:18<clever>yeah
21:18<clever>ive seen the stuff to make antena's out of pringles cans
21:18<briand>the linksys routers are widely hacked... dunno about the dlink. stock, out of the box, they all do about 2 to 2.5 watts
21:19<briand>you can find info online to 'tweak' it to do 5 watts, without having to rebuild any electronics
21:19<clever>but the range would still probly not reach as many km as i want
21:19<briand>oh, you want to go 'kilometers' ?? ha. good luck.
21:20<clever>:P
21:20<clever>i said km several mins ago
21:20<briand>microwave transmission is "line of sight", and an IP connection would have to be unbroken to be usable.
21:20<clever>if i got a license and used a directed beam how far might i be able to reach?
21:20<briand>this means -very- steady towers that won't sway in the wind, pointed at each other...
21:21<clever>not looking for something past 20km
21:21<briand>I've seen such a thing done across a parking lot... or across, say, a football field. I even did it in Hancock county, MS after Katrina, to link the local EOC with the Florida SERT networks... and it was problematic enough, even at 100 yards
21:22<clever>using a line of sight link right to my laptop wouldnt work well though
21:22<briand>clever: theoretical limit is 170 miles, unless you have an unbelievably tall tower at each end. the earth curves, but the radio waves travel in straight lines
21:22<hads>Umm...
21:22<clever>theres a bit of a small hill/mountain between the house and half the woods i walk in
21:23<clever>instantly kills line of sight
21:23<rooaus>hads: mmm, can I ask you a dev related question?
21:23<clever>could stick a repeated ontop of the local mountain
21:23<briand>clever: you're better off selling a patch of your land to the local cell phone company, and working a deal to get free internet access over it in trade
21:23<hads>rooaus: Oh, I thought this was #wifi-chat :)
21:23<clever>which would then aim a 2nd directional link at me on servo's
21:23<clever>but theres no power up there
21:24<clever>briand: i dont exactly own any land:P
21:24<briand>well, there's your second problem, then. :)
21:24<clever>briand: and there is digital cell reception here allready
21:24<hads>rooaus: Sure, but I'm not a dev, I just test and try to hack a little.
21:24<clever>i was thinking of a 'free' way to get internet access wirelessly over long range
21:24<clever>without having to get another bill for the laptop to tap into the cell towers
21:25<rooaus>hads: Yeah, same here. Just want an opinion... have a look at http://www.users.on.net/~camel/mythtv/ss/DeleteExpiry.png...
21:25<briand>clever: talk starbucks into opening several shops with 'free t-mobile hot spots' between your house and these woods... ;)
21:25<clever>briand: and my newest laptop is half ready to do that on its own(has a SIM slot, just the actual card is missing)
21:25<clever>briand: you havent been to this town:P
21:25<clever>we dont even have a mc donalds
21:25<rooaus>hads: without the trailing full stops :)
21:25<hads>yup
21:26<clever>there isnt even a buger king within 2 hours driving
21:26<briand>I've been to _this_ one.. state capital or not, it's still quite rural in many ways.
21:26<clever>the one 15mins away closed up shortly after opening and turned into a kia dealer
21:26<briand>so, I understand your plight.
21:26<briand>anyway.. i need to run and do some errands before sack time... good chatting with everyone...
21:26<clever>we only recently got digital cell service
21:26<clever>when the canada games came by
21:27<clever>the installed new towers to handle the additional load
21:27<clever>then left them up
21:27<briand>thanks again, xris & danielk... and rooaus for the link/info. :) talk to y'all soon.
21:27<rooaus>hads: Do you think the separate expiry method for deleted recordings is useful? *I* wanted to implement the Max Age for deleted recordings, but was wondering if the other dedicated settings useful.
21:27<briand>canada games? you in canada?
21:27<clever>yeah:P
21:27<clever>briand: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.056283,-66.374245&spn=0.065401,0.167885&z=12&om=0
21:27<GreyFoxx>Canucks watch TV too :)
21:28<clever>briand: thats a map of the area im in
21:28<briand>ah. you might look into satellite internet services, if there's a provider available in canada
21:28<briand>GreyFoxx: didn't mean to imply they didn't... :)
21:28<GreyFoxx>hehe I know, I was just being silly :)
21:28<briand>satellite internet service isn't as fast as DSL or cable... but it's better than dialup
21:28<clever>briand: ive glaned at a site that has long range wifi services, 10% of my dsl speed and half the cost, and i dont think they cover this area yet
21:28-!-BigJ [n=jason@d141-244-45.home.cgocable.net] has joined #mythtv
21:28<briand>and the new antennas are self-positioning/aiming... just power 'em on and they lock and link up
21:29<clever>that would need extra hardware to make
21:29<clever>but could also be cheaper in other areas
21:29<briand>we had just such a thing installed in the SERT response vehicles. pretty handy, at times. especially when you're in the middle of a recenly hurricane-devastated area with no internet at all
21:29<clever>your sat orbit doesnt have to be as perfect
21:30<clever>since every dish in the country could self track it as it wobbles arround the ski
21:30<hads>rooaus: Maybe, TBH it's not something that I personally would find useful, not to say that others wouldn't though.
21:30<briand>oh, the sat orbits are rock-solid.. no worries there. Look into HughesNet (if Hughes provides service to Canada)... that's who the state of florida contracted with
21:31<clever>yeah
21:31<clever>if i find something faster then my dsl with a static ip
21:32<clever>at a resonable price
21:32<clever>i may change over
21:32<briand>anyway.. gotta run.. thanks again, guys.
21:32<clever>but that would still be limited to just my house id think
21:32<briand>clever: you and everybody else is looking for that deal!! :)
21:32<clever>not exactly like i can drag the dish behind me in a cart in the woods
21:32<clever>and expect it to keep track of the sat while moving
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21:35<rooaus>hads: Thanks.
21:37<briand>clever: the mobile antennas are approximately 1 foot in diameter, self-contained, and auto-positioning. :)
21:37<clever>ah
21:37<briand>i've maintained a connection on the interstate at 75 mph with no problems
21:37<clever>sounds a bit large to carry while walking:P
21:38<clever>some1 i talked to online
21:38<clever>was driving behind a bus
21:38<briand>that wouldn't be your main concern... the weight of the batteries would!
21:38<clever>and got into the bus's wifi connection
21:38<clever>which led to the inet(probly thru one of those dishes)
21:38<clever>and he had his gf follow the bus for half the trip
21:42<psm321>hi
21:42<psm321>i apologize for repeating this from late last night, if its not appropriate here please tell me and i'll stop
21:42<psm321>i was tracking down a segfault in the Program Finder, have a rough idea of what's causing it but having a bit of trouble comprehending exactly what the code is doing or supposed to do in terms of reformatting names starting with A/An/The... who should I talk to about that? (the problem is that theres a name that goes through the processing and comes out with , An on the end... which breaks the SQL query an theres no check for 0 results,
21:42<psm321>having trouble figuring out why other names that appear like they should go through that processing don't)
21:43<psm321>The title in question is "An Inconvenient Truth" (reformatted to "Inconvenient Truth, An") in case someone else wants to track it down... whenever I select that and hit the right arrow it segfaults. I'd be happy to help and/or provide what I've figured out so far... please PM me if you see this later (hard to track things down in backlog)
21:44<hads>psm321: There are longish periods of quiet here when no devs are around, you may be better posting to the mailing list if you don'ot get an answer.
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21:44<fuse_lt>hi
21:44<hads>Well, it would be quiet if there wasn't random chat about WiFi.
21:45<psm321>hads: yeah i'll probably end up doing that eventually... just takes longer because I have to format everything nicely, provide all my details up front, etc :) which is why i came here first
21:46<hads>Are you using trunk?
21:46<psm321>hads: pretty close (from jan 6th)
21:47<hads>psm321: Is it anything ending in ", An"? or just one program?
21:48<psm321>my guess is it that it will be anything ending in ", An" from the code and my understanding of the bug, but i havent been able to find another program yet that gets reformatted (thats the basis of most of my confusion... a lot of programs that it looks like should be reformatted arent... i'll admit i havent had time to do an extremely thorough reading/testing of the code to figure out what exactly it's meant to reformat, was hoping somebo
21:48<psm321>had an idea would chime in)
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21:49<psm321>and i dont have a testing setup of myth that i can play around with easily, inserting random things into the db, etc
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21:51<psm321>hads: yep, also segfaults with "An Innocent Love" --> "Innocent Love, An"
21:51<hads>I can reproduce it here FWIW with current trunk.
21:51<hads>Just did with "An Inconvenient Truth"
21:53<psm321>yeah the problem is that it does (99% sure, havent examined the bindings variable to make absolutely sure) an sql query for title = "Inconvenient Truth, An"
21:53<psm321>which is bug #1
21:53<psm321>and then when it gets no results it just uses the empty list (QList? dont remember) which is rep as null pointer
21:54<psm321>instead of erroring or something
21:54<hads>psm321: Create a ticket rather than a post to the mailing list.
21:54<psm321>ok, will do
21:55<psm321>after i take a bit closer look at the reformatting code (i suspect theres another bug there where it's not reformatting things that it's trying to, which probably led to this one not being detected)
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