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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2008-03-26

---Logopened Wed Mar 26 00:00:11 2008
00:00<feld>anyone here run MythTV on OSX/intel? I saw some packages here http://macvana.com/mythtv/RELEASES/ and http://www.thesniderpad.com/component/option,com_remository/Itemid,36/
00:00<feld>I just want the frontend -- any experiences with either?
00:01<Anduin>feld: better asked over in #mythtv-users
00:02<feld>ah crap i need to quit doing this
00:02<feld>thanks Anduin lol
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06:04<gbee>janneg: attempting to playback a recording results in a constant segfault - http://pastebin.ca/957934
06:11<gbee>wasn't doing this last night :(
06:11<Dibblah>Specific filters set?
06:15<Dibblah>Eh? Looks like a mix of QT3/4?
06:15<Dibblah>Thread 11 (the faulting one) is using libqt-mt from QT3.
06:16<Dibblah>So is thread 1.
06:16<gbee>huh, didn't spot that
06:17<gbee>now why ...
06:17<Dibblah>But everything else is qt4...
06:17<Dibblah>Well, does -mt exist in qt4?
06:17<Dibblah>I thought that by default libqt was built mt in 4...
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06:20<gbee>Dibblah: no it doesn't exist
06:20<gbee>for some reason, despite deleting Makefiles it built filters using the wrong qmake but did the rest of mythtv fine
06:24<Dibblah>Sure it's the wrong qmake and not just that -mt is specified somewhere?
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06:28<gbee>wrong qmake
06:28<gbee>I've already built the qt4 branch several times without this problem
06:29<gbee>just building from my normal working copy this time
06:30<Dibblah>Some remaining state?
06:31<gbee>seems so, it's now fixed
06:32<Dibblah>:)
06:33*Dibblah really should look at the out-of-tree build stuff and see if qmake still sucks rocks...
06:34<Dibblah>(I know someone committed a partial fix in the way of a symlink tree now works, but that's messy.
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06:44<hads>Out of tree build is pretty cool.
06:54<Dibblah>I also wanted to be able to add a version suffix to all libraries and executables (mythfrontend-r16000) to make regression testing slightly easier. But never got round to that either.
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06:56<janneg>http://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2008-03/msg00162.html a faster elf linker added to binutils
06:59<janneg>makes libmythtv rebuilds hopefully faster
06:59<MrGandalf>interesting
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07:00<Dibblah>...? Most of the time is eaten (for me) by tv_play.cpp. 43 seconds to compile, last time I measured it.
07:00<Dibblah>(with -O3)
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07:04<janneg>Dibblah: I don't modify tv_play.cpp (directly or indirectly) that often
07:05<Dibblah>True, the link is expensive.
07:05<Dibblah>Maybe libmythtv needs splitting? ;)
07:05<janneg>I would guess that linking libmythtv in a debug build takes a minute
07:06<Dibblah>50 odd seconds for me.
07:06<Dibblah>(Profile, not debug here)
07:06<janneg>could be
07:07<janneg>guessing long time intervals is nothing humans are good in especially if they are impatient
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07:16<gbee>hads: your grabber fully xmltv compliant, supporting capabilities etc?
07:17<hads>gbee: Yeah
07:17<gbee>cool
07:17<gbee>sorry, you might have said before, I've a poor memory
07:18<hads>Na, I don't remember talking about it here.
07:19<hads>It doesn't do any grabbing work as it downloads an XML file that I host which is ripped from DVB EIT with another script. Would be decent to copy for writing a grabber in Python though.
07:19<gbee>I'm trying to get more people to write and use compliant grabbers because it makes life easier for the user
07:19<gbee>and easier for the source websites, and easier for me if I make changes to mfdb
07:20<hads>I'll implement apiconfig when it's in myth as myth is the only thing I use with it :)
07:21<gbee>yeah, I should finish apiconfig
07:21<hads>You do lots :)
07:21<gbee>half way through I decided that I'd rather write it using mythui (which is true of several of my half finished patches), hence why I'm now working on mythui instead
07:22<hads>Ah, understandable.
07:22<hads>I should go to bed anyway. Night.
07:22<gbee>g'night
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08:51<timing>ah, going to the -users channel
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09:37<justinh>yeah but what use is a working pal interlaced output that doesn't work with xv?
09:37<justinh>NONE
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09:45<gbee>may be nothing, but I've noticed the following in frontend logs following the merge back to trunk - http://pastebin.ca/958078
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09:48<laga>justinh: context?
09:48<justinh>laga: Ewrongchannel
09:50<laga>heh
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09:53<danielk22>are you allowed to multiply inherit QObject in Qt4 ?
09:58<danielk22>Apparently not.. http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=667415&seqNum=4
09:58<danielk22>Same as Qt3
09:59<sphery>gbee: Nigel's recent Xinerama/non-Xinerama changes? [16370] and [16778]
10:01<laga>danielk22: i know you're busy, but do you think you can take a look at #5039 and my patch in #4064? ubuntu hardy will get a fresh -fixes checkout in a few days and it would be nice not to have to maintain too many additional patches
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10:07<danielk22>laga, I'll try to find a little time for those; no promises.
10:09<gbee>sphery: only thing I can think of, but I'll look at those commits in detail tonight maybe
10:10<gbee>I'm trying to get things sorted out in mythui so I've not much time for anything else right now
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11:16<Chutt>Anduin, hey, so, ideas on a workaround for the mysql crash?
11:17<Chutt>should we just error out (completely) if the db can't be opened?
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11:49<gbee>Chutt: I'm implementing a way to prevent text being drawn outside it's parent with the opengl painter (needed for scrolling text, textedit widget etc), so far the best idea I have is to crop the image in MythOpenGLPainter::GetImageFromString() after it has been drawn, do you have a better idea?
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11:53<Chutt>hrm
11:53<Chutt>that means it's going to have to be re-rendered every time it moves
11:54<gbee>not sure I'm following?
11:56<Chutt>GetImageFromString is cached
11:56<Chutt>if you crop it there, then it'll have to be re-drawn if the cropping rectangle changes
11:57<Chutt>guess that's fine, though
11:57<Chutt>just make sure you add the crop info to the hash key
11:57<gbee>sure
12:02<gbee>maybe there is a better way, but I can't see it at the moment - QT already behaves as expected, you move the text area left outside the parent space and the text on the left hand side is no longer visible but opengl renders everything (no clipping)
12:03<Chutt>could probably just add clipping to the opengl painter
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12:05<gbee>don't know the first thing about opengl, so that could take a while - but it makes more sense
12:05<Chutt>=)
12:05<Chutt>no worries if you'd want to do the easy thing
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12:14<gbee>I'll start reading some GL tutorials when I get time so I can do things properly, but to avoid losing momentum I'll go with the easy solution for now
12:15<Chutt>naw
12:15<Chutt>i'll try to take care of clipping
12:15<Chutt>you continue on the mythui port =)
12:15<gbee>k ;)
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12:45<timing>o shit, wrong one again
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12:55<Anduin>Chutt: Not yet, I plan to look at it more tonight, maybe something like passing in a null QSqlResult and then creating a local QSqlResult and copying it only if the DB is open (the null QSqlResult should just fail gracefully from a quick look)
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13:34<janneg>gbee: the qstring error is fixed
13:36<gbee>janneg: the xinerama screen size one?
13:37<xris>what's the command that makes the scheduler print out why it wants/doesn't want to record things?
13:37<xris>mine has been recording a LOT of duplicate episodes lately, despite rules to the contrary
13:38<janneg>mythbackend --printsched
13:38<xris>thx
13:38<janneg>gbee: yes
13:38<gbee>janneg: ok, thanks :)
13:39<xris>janneg: any idea what the columns mean?
13:40<gbee>source, cardid are the first two
13:40<gbee>T = rule type
13:40<xris>I'm wondering if maybe the "rerecord if zero-bytes+in-deleted-recgroup" patch has a bug
13:41<gbee>N = when (e.g. previously recorded, this showing, earlier showing)
13:41<gbee>dunno about I
13:41<gbee>Title - Subtitle Ch Station Day Start End S C I T N Pri
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13:48<xris>oh well. there's my weirdness, officially documented: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5048
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13:52*janneg wonders if he should tell anyone that trunk compiles with qt4.2.1
13:53<Chutt>no :p
13:53<Chutt>cuz if that breaks..
13:53<gbee>could be taken as official support for 4.2
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13:53<gbee>which we aren't even considering
13:54<gbee>and who knows what 4.2 specific bugs there might be?
13:57<xris>which version of qt 4 are we going for?
13:58<Chutt>4.3
13:58<xris>ok, good. :)
14:07<gbee>think I'll look into adding qt version information to --version
14:10<xris>Chutt: could just add a 4.3 check to ./configure, no?
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14:14<janneg>well, it doesn't compile completely due to the qt version check in mythcontext.h
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14:19<NSVOE>hellow where can i find information about hardware compatability ....if this is the support section
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14:26<xris>Anduin: are you using the perl imdb script or the new python one for mythvideo?
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14:33<gbee>qt version information in --version would be handy, even just for narrowing down bugs to QT point releases - e.g. the bug in 3.3.8 which caused segfaults on exit
14:36<gbee>"If the dot product of the eye coordinates of a vertex with the stored plane equation ..."
14:37<janneg>gbee: QT_VERSION_STR in qtglobal.h
14:37<gbee>anyone know if there is an "OpenGL for Dummies"?
14:37<gbee>janneg: thanks
14:39<sphery>gbee: OpenGL Distilled ( http://www.bookpool.com/sm/0321336798 ). Though I haven't started learning OpenGL, it was highly recommended to me as a "starter" book by a guy who does OpenGL for a living.
14:40<gbee>sphery: cheers, I think I'll add that to my bookshelf
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14:45<sphery>gbee: I also got http://www.bookpool.com/sm/0321514327 , which are supposed to be the definitive references. They're available separately, but I hope to do some GLSL, too.
14:47<gbee>thanks
14:50<sphery>xris: re #5049, your printsched indicates that the show will be recorded only on
14:50<sphery>ce (the "E" in the "N" column means "Earlier" episode will be recorded.
14:50<xris>yeah
14:50<xris>but NEITHER should record
14:50<sphery>xris: The 3 records in oldrecorded are correct, too. They say that only one of them was recorded (the one with recstatus -3). And, recstatus 2 means rsPreviousRecording (i.e. wasn't recorded because you had previously recorded the episode).
14:50<sphery>xris: If you've deleted the show, though, it seems that either you selected "Del
14:50<sphery>ete and allow re-record" or there's a bug in the delete code because it set dupl
14:50<sphery>icate to 0.
14:50<sphery>stupid copy/paste
14:50<xris>sphery: hence the bug report
14:50<sphery>So you did delete it and you're sure you didn't select allow re-record?
14:50<xris>either that or mythweb is doing something wrong and no one has told me how to fix it.
14:51<xris>positive
14:51<xris>the oldrecorded table should show the re-record request, no?
14:51<sphery>re-record is now just marked by setting duplicate = 0. duplicate = 1 says to use the record for dup matching
14:52<sphery>we no longer delete the record so we maintain history, but we don't maintain a history of when the user said to allow re-record
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15:16<xris>sphery: mythweb may not be setting "duplicate"
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15:18<sphery>xris: duplicate should be set to 1 when the recording is created, then when you issue a DELETE_RECORDING it should stay 1, then if you issue FORGET_RECORDING it's changed to 0. It looks like MythWeb (and mythfrontend) are doing the right thing to me.
15:19<sphery>So, since FORGET_RECORDING should be used to change the value of duplicate, rather than changing it directly in the DB--exactly like you're doing in MythWeb.
15:19<xris>ok, yeah, just checked that, too
15:19<sphery>d/since/
15:19<xris>I'm confused, then
15:20<sphery>You're doing it right. Can't explain why it didn't work. Might be a hidden bug.
15:20<xris>what happens if you issue "delete" and the program already has duplicate=0?
15:21<xris>as in, it was issued FORGET when it was initially deleted, but not when it was wiped from the deleted recgroup?
15:21<sphery>What was this 0-filesize change you mentioned? Is it http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/14619 (as that's right--it only affects DELETE_RECORDING , and whomever is deleting should only call FORGET_RECORDING if that's what you asked for)
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15:22<sphery>The code handling DELETE_RECORDING doesn't touch duplicate, so it would stay at 0. However, it shouldn't ever be set to 0 unless you explicitly say to forget the history.
15:24<sphery>Oh. I think I see where you're going. Because it was autoexpired from Deleted recordings, that would normally change it to automatically re-record, and--currently--the only way we circumvent that is if you tell it to not re-record watched and you've set the watched flag (manually or automatically after playback).
15:25<xris>actually, I was thinking of deleting manually from deleted.
15:25<sphery>When you delete to deleted, you specify either allow re-record or not. If so, you get duplicate = 0. Then deleting from deleted would just leave it at 0.
15:26<sphery>Though, if it's less than 1MB, it's immediately deleted instead of deleted to Deleted recgroup... (confused again)
15:27<xris>ah, that's cool
15:27<sphery>Did you figure out how it got the wrong value for you?
15:28<xris>in mythweb, I allow you to "delete + rerecord" stuff from the deleted recgroup even if it was already marked as such.
15:28<xris>no
15:28<xris>just wanted to make sure using the normal "delete" link from the deleted group didn't reset things to NOT rerecord if they were already marked to rerecord
15:30<xris>ok, new recording just went through.. has duplicate=1
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15:31<xris>I "delete" (with no rerecord) and duplicate=0 now
15:32*xris is going to kick kormoc
15:32<xris> forget_old: (forget_old ? 'yes' : 'no')
15:32<xris>"no" is a true value (meaning it's a string with text in it)
15:32<Chutt>hah
15:32<xris>so "forget" is being calle
15:32<xris>d
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15:33<xris>ok, THAT explains a lot.
15:34<xris>the php doesn't even check for true.. just checks that the value exists in the post data...
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15:36<xris>though "undelete" doesn't set duplicate=1 back, though
15:36<xris>which it probably should
15:36<xris>and that's a backend thing
15:36<xris>hmm, actually, it didn't work at all for me
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15:39<xris>ok, that was a typo in mythweb
15:46<xris>ok, that's fixed.
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16:19<sphery>xris: sorry for disappearing... work + 'net connection dropped out right as I had to leave. Glad you got it though. (When I said I didn't see how in MythWeb or mfe it would happen, I was assuming all the checking of whether to forget was correct.)
16:20<xris>yeah
16:20<xris>found an unrelated undelete bug, too... so that was a nice fix.
16:20<sphery>Cool. Bonus bug fix.
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16:39<gbee>cool, textedit now scrolls text when you#ve
16:39<gbee>reached the end of the field
16:44<gbee>just need to add a background image/fill option and it should be usable enough to commit
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17:07<gbee>anyone want to suggest a better alternative to validating keypresses as text input than the approach I'm using here? : http://pastebin.ca/958647
17:08<gbee>it works well, but maybe there is an even better way
17:09<kormoc>what are you attempting to invalidate?
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17:19<elupus>evening
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17:19<elupus>are there any devs that are playing much with livetv stuff?
17:19<elupus>i have a small idea on how to speed up channel changes by quite a large amount
17:19<GreyFoxx>Other than for quick testing I think most don't use it :)
17:20<elupus>atleast for people with multiple tuner or on same multiplex
17:20<Chutt>elupus, it already doesn't retune in that case.
17:20<elupus>yes, but that isn't the issue. one problem for the player is that it will still need to recache a short amount
17:21<elupus>the size of the player cache will decide the delay really
17:21<elupus>and to limit issues with stutter due to delays, in xbmc we have it set to half a second (might be overkill)
17:22<elupus>the idea is to have a tuner prepered for the next channel to come
17:23<elupus>the common way of channel surfing is just switching to next channel (or previous)
17:23<Chutt>not a new idea
17:23<danielk22>elupus: If you write the code I'll certainly review it. Just make sure it is optional and that the end user can control how many extra multiplexes are recorded. It's really just a simple extension of multirec on the recorder side, the rest is accounting.
17:23<elupus>if the backend always cached say a second of data for next/prev channel using a ringbuffer
17:24<Chutt>generally, the answer to that was 'wasteful of resources', because it wouldn't always be caching the right thing..
17:24<elupus>then on a channel change that get's writen to the real livetv chain, and playback started
17:24<danielk22>elupus: no need to explain, this was discussed to death a number of years ago, just implement it, implement it cleanly, and make it optional.
17:25<elupus>right okey. i was hoping i could keep to the frontend side of thing. maybe if i get time
17:25<kormoc>it's not the frontend's thing to control
17:25<elupus>yea that is not what i meant :)
17:25<elupus>i'm busy writing myth frontend for xbmc
17:25<kormoc>ahh
17:25<gbee>kormoc: although that example lets through all likely chars the final version will allow us to define textedits as numeric only, or alphanumeric (no symbols) or no punctuation, it's a quick and easy way for us to block unacceptable input to certain field e.g. the year field in mythvideo would only allow numeric chars
17:26<elupus>i just tested it with almost great success in xbmc by doing it on frontend side. fell down on the hidious startup delay for spawning new tv chains
17:26<kormoc>gbee, ahh
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17:30*gbee looks at the xbox in the corner and wonders how well a trunk frontend would run on it
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17:34<elupus>live playback, marking live as keep (r in normal frontend) and playback of already recorded shows work just fine
17:35<elupus>no epg yet, nor comskipping
17:35<gbee>hardly worth the effort really, I could build a smaller, prettier and more powerful frontend in a fraction of the time it would take to hack at the xbox
17:36<elupus>but you would loose out on the xbmc experience ;)
17:36<gbee>elupus: I assume you are talking about xbmc? I'd want a proper frontend
17:36<kormoc>commskipping/autozoom are the two features I love the most, I never use live tv
17:36<elupus>you could just use the same myth frontend box, and drop the xbmc linux port on it
17:36<kormoc>meh, why bother?
17:36<gbee>wasn't really impressed by what I saw of xbmc at LRL
17:37<elupus>lrl?
17:37<gbee>UK linux event where I was demo'ing MythTV with a couple of the other devs
17:40<elupus>right, well asfar as i've found, it's the best out there, but then again i'm very biosed as i'm a dev on it ;)
17:41<gbee>elupus: it was pretty (but nothing that mythtv can't do with mythui) but functionally it offered a lot less than a myth frontend - but maybe I'm just as biased
17:41<elupus>i've not yet grown to like mythfroented, but the backend is damn nice
17:41<elupus>i've not looked too much on the plugins for myth yet thou
17:45<elupus>guys any though on this.
17:45<elupus>2008-03-26 22:44:38.246 Preview Error: Previewer file '/var/lib/mythtv/livetv/1001_20080326224434.mpg' is not valid.
17:45<elupus>2008-03-26 22:44:38.248 Preview Error: Run() file not local: '/var/lib/mythtv/livetv/1001_20080326224434.mpg'
17:45<elupus>2008-03-26 22:44:38.253 Preview Error: Preview process not ok.
17:45<elupus> fileinfo(/var/lib/mythtv/livetv/1001_20080326224434.mpg.png) exists: 0 readable: 0 size: 0
17:45<elupus>2008-03-26 22:44:42.364 RingBuf(/var/lib/mythtv/livetv/1001_20080326224434.mpg): Invalid file (fd -1) when opening '/var/lib/mythtv/livetv/1001_20080326224434.mpg'.
17:45<elupus>sorry for the large post
17:45<laga>yes
17:45<laga>my thought is:
17:45<laga>use a pastebin
17:45<kormoc>elupus, well, it can't open the file you're asking it to open
17:45<elupus>well, this happens each time i spawn livetv
17:46<laga>ah, this isn't the mythbuntu chane, i'm not supposed to yell at people in here. sry ;)
17:46<kormoc>laga, meh, pastebin is always a good idea
17:46<elupus>but before anytbody thinks to much, let me verify it happens with standard frontend first. this was from when using libcmyth
17:48<elupus>okey, standard frontend logs same
17:48<elupus>i say before noticing that the last error line was missing
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18:01<Anduin>xris: still imdb.pl
18:01<elupus>hehe, thanx for putting up with me a few seconds. by just spitballing i got quite abit closer to why startup was so slow. it seems backend is very slow to respond to filetransfers on files that doesn't exist. and that in combination with a bug in libcmyth which requests an invalid filename, startup is slow. heh, maybe there is life in my multitiner from clientside idea still
18:02<elupus>oh and that slowness on those transfers could very well by libcmyth's fault too
18:02<xris>Anduin: ok. for some reason the one in mythweb is pulling all kinds of extra data... just wanted to make sure that a switch to the python script wasn't in order.
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18:03<xris>script works fine on the commandline, so I'm guessing it's a config issue in mythweb's video stuff.
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18:11<Anduin>gbee: You pass the event up so delete/backspace work? I used the Qt event filter to get number only edits in videomanager, though things like year are not currently editable so not used there.
18:16<gbee>Anduin: the widget deals with backspace/delete/return etc itself before characters - http://pastebin.ca/958746
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18:19<elupus>darn.. even if you specify that ann filestransfer only should attempt one time. there is a fixed usleep(1000) after that in ringbuffer.cpp
18:22<sphery>elupus: previewer error may be Myth's trying to generate a preview of the dummy video (can't remember if I heard someone saying it does this, so I may be way off--haven't looked at the code)
18:22<sphery>It's not supposed to do it, so if you find that's what's happening, a patch would be appreciated. :)
18:23<janneg>it tries to generate previews of the dummy files
18:23<elupus>the delay is cause i request a file that doesn't exist, and myth defaults to 15 retry attempts, and after each failed attempt it sleeps 1000ms.
18:23<sphery>janneg: and it's not supposed to, right? Sounds like you have it under control, though.
18:23<elupus>sooo, when you say dummy file. is the first filename you get for current program after a spawn livetv always a dummy file?
18:24<elupus>oh, and it times out after 15 / 2 = 7.5 seconds..
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18:25<elupus>i can atleast get it down to 1 second, by setting that it should only try once
18:25<danielk22>elupus: you only get a dummy file if MythTV is waiting for a signal to come in, like it does for DTV tuners. Simple Framebuffer tuners do not use a dummy file.
18:26<danielk22>elupus: Can't you check if the file exists before trying to download it? (Or, at least check if it is a dummy video before trying to download it?)
18:26<elupus>hmm.. any protocol command that would do that?
18:27<danielk22>I think so, wouldn't know off the top of my head though.
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18:28<elupus>ah, wait
18:28<elupus>the file actually exists, but ringbuffer reads a testsize before returning
18:28<elupus>and since it's adummy file that keeps failing
18:33<sphery>elupus: perhaps you should be doing a QUERY_CHECKFILE
18:34<elupus>ah nice. that will fix thumbnail downloading atleast.
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18:43<mattwire>Trying to compile the qt4 myth at the moment, I keep getting an error in channelgroup.cpp with qheader.h not found. I've distcleaned, installed all the headers I can etc. Any idea what's causing this?
18:46<janneg>there is no qheader.h in my qt4 includes
18:47<mattwire>interesting. Ok, cheers. That file must not be getting updated properly or something, I'll investigate further
18:47<janneg>neither is there channelgroup.cpp in my mythtv tree
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18:54<mattwire>ah of course. I forgot I've got the channelgroups patch in my build tree!
18:54<mattwire>time I went to bed I think :)
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20:19<elupus>anybody have some though on how over protocol finding out if a recording is a dummy recording?
20:21<kormoc>I don't believe you can
20:21<elupus>nuppelvideoplayer does something like livetvchain->getcardtype(newid) == "DUMMY" and then skips playing it if it is
20:23<kormoc>likely by checking the database
20:23<kormoc>not everything the frontend does is via mythproto
20:26<elupus>so i've noticed :)
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20:34<elupus>there don't seem to be anything differnt in the program info for the dummy file and the nondummy file that shows up directly after
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21:18*Captain_Murdoch notices elupus has mili and micro mixed up. usleep(1000) only tries to sleep 1 milisecond, not 1000ms.
21:25<xris>so weird to see mythtv shuffle files around between disks
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21:28<xris>at least, I hope it's mythtv doing all of those reads/writes
21:29<Captain_Murdoch>will be even neater if I ever finish the work on the migration job which would allow the expirer to move files around instead of deleting them in order to free up space on full filesystems.
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21:33<xris>hmm, not mythtv
21:33<xris>wonder what it is
21:34<xris>oh... looks like my raid1 went wacky
21:34<xris>yay raid, then...
21:36<Captain_Murdoch>can anyone else login to trac right now?
21:37<Captain_Murdoch>login page is giving me an error w/o even prompting for a login/pw
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21:37<kormoc>Captain_Murdoch, works for me
21:37*Captain_Murdoch closes firefox and restarts.
21:37<xris>I'm already logged in.
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21:38<Captain_Murdoch>working now. may have had to do with yum updating firefox out from under me.
21:38<Captain_Murdoch>forgot about letting it do that the other day.
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21:40*xris recommends ff3...
21:41<xris>sooooo much nicer than 2
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