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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2008-06-09

---Logopened Mon Jun 09 00:00:33 2008
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02:33<teprrr>hmm, from where does the translations come to mainmenu.xmls and such? are they automatically generated from the ts file or..?
02:34<teprrr>or should I manually update them also and attach to the patch?
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02:45<clever>teprrr: i think there are multiple versions in the xml and they are labled as to what language they are
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02:51<teprrr>clever, yup there is. but are those updated automatically from translation files or should I modify them manually?
02:51<clever>ive never seen any translation files
02:52<teprrr>in mythtv/i18n/mythfrontend_<langcode>.ts
02:53<clever>never seen those files before but the i18n is a bitch to type right:P
02:53<clever>but i dont think thats related to the menus in myth itself
02:54<clever>i think thats for the dialogs that popup
02:56<teprrr>ye, l10n is nice too ;)
02:56<teprrr>but well, it could be that that stuff isn't automated at all.. ie. one has to change those strings manually to those theme xml files
02:57<clever>yeah thats what it think
02:57<teprrr>themes/DVR and themes/classic have strings at least
02:57<clever>also if you make your own theme you would have your own wording for all the menus
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02:58<clever>and it would be a pain to have to mod the source to handle that in other languages
03:00<teprrr>well, at least for provided themes that could be automated.. but well, I'll patch those xml files and add patches about them also
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03:01<Chutt>all strings in the .xml files are in the .ts files.
03:02<Chutt>least, they should all be there
03:02<Chutt>the translations in the .xml files _should_ just be legacy support
03:08<teprrr>Chutt, mm. are those english strings extracted from the .xml files or..? though I'm not able to locate at least "<text>Utilities / Setup</text>" from the _fi.ts
03:09<teprrr>but sounds fair enough.. perhaps those translations should be cleaned from the trunk's xml files then? if the translations should be in the .tses
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04:17<teprrr>hmm, looks like that also "move the screen position" screens strings are from xml..
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06:34<gbee>hmm, could the orphans script be a little broken? "169 unknown files using 224.1GB not fixed, check above and use --dodelete to clean up if the above output is accurate"
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08:52<stuarta>gbee: that wouldn't be all the png's would it?
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08:53*stuarta waves
08:54<janneg>hi danielk23
08:56<danielk23>hi
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08:59<gbee>stuarta: no, it's all the recordings and they aren't orphaned
08:59<stuarta>k
08:59<gbee>it reports only ten known/valid files
09:00<gbee>if I ran with --dodelete it would wipe out all the recordings
09:00<stuarta>:(
09:00<stuarta>hardly desirable
09:00<janneg>gbee: do the videos have all the same hostname
09:02<janneg>s/video/recordings/
09:02<gbee>janneg: that's a good question and I think it's probably the answer - the hostname on that machine changed recently, I probably missed a couple of tables when updating them to the new name
09:04<gbee>do we still need the hostname in the recorded table? Shouldn't that be part of the storage group instead?
09:05<gbee>ok, changing the hostname fixed it
09:06<stuarta>that implies the storage groups are per backend
09:06<gbee>the script will still chose to delete database backups stored in the recording storage group, which seems to be a real bug and not just PEBCAK
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09:12<gbee>stuarta: you've got a point, I was about to suggest that it would be better not to tie a recording to the backend that made it so that you could move them about to other machines, but I hadn't thought that through - storage groups tied to a particular host still wouldn't make that possible
09:13<gbee>so sorry for the noise, I'm just being an idiot again ;)
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09:16<stuarta>nm, i'm just throwing spanners :)
09:18<janneg>stuarta: the storage groups are per backend
09:19<janneg>no they are not, just the directories are and we just save the group
09:20<gbee>shared directory (nfs/samba) might have recordings in it from several backends - no way of knowing in the orphans script that just becase the file doesn't belong to this backend that it doesn't belong to another
09:21<stuarta>that's why the hostname is in the recordings table
09:21<gbee>not that I think it's really a great idea to share the exact same location between backends, even if you use the same drive it's probably a better idea to give each backend a seperate sub-directory
09:21<janneg>I'll someday implement support for offline detection for backends/storage dirs to implement a filter for the "watch recordings" screen
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09:39<rooaus>It seems that MythSocket::connect(QString, Q_UINT16) does not take a hostname atm, the QString is a dotted quad. Would making it take a hostname be OK or would the resolver time be a problem?
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09:52<MrGandalf>rooaus: that's been discussed to death on the dev list.
09:54<rooaus>MrGandalf: What was the resolution? Reading / thinking some more it seems it would require caching the lookup as it could be a significant delay. Maybe not worth the effort I guess.
09:54<MrGandalf>rooaus: The resolution is to use the IP.
09:55<rooaus>Probably easier to add the validation to the setup gui and better error reporting.
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10:38<MrGandalf>janneg: do you have a website or repository for your new Hauppauge driver?
10:39<janneg>MrGandalf: not yet, but I'll annonce it first in #hdpvr
10:39<MrGandalf>k, thanks
10:39<janneg>hopefully this evening
10:40<danielk23>janneg: init problems solved yet?
10:42<MrGandalf>that's what I was interested in tracking :)
10:43<janneg>danielk23: yes, thanks to jpabq who rewrote the assembler as C and helped me cleaning it up: http://rafb.net/p/z6ATGB13.html
10:44<danielk23>cool :)
10:46<janneg>windbg is probably the best M$ tool I've ever used and it is even free (as in beer)
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10:50<J_t_M>Hi guys. Where will I find the code which handles DVD -> "Good" or DVD -> "Perfect" quality AVI streams? Is it in Mythtranscode or is it somewhere else?
10:51*stuarta points to the topic
10:52<J_t_M>stuarta: I accept that, however, I'm trying to follow up a bug report I just filed with a patch, and it's my first look at mythtv, so to speed up the process, I'd like some help finding where to start with the code?
10:52<stuarta>well that's a bit different :)
10:52<J_t_M>(and I mean from a coding perspective rather than ... I've never used mythtv before)
10:52<J_t_M>*smile*
10:53<stuarta>we get an awful lot of 1st sentences like that
10:53<J_t_M>To be fair, I'm not expecting to get much from the code, but I at least want to *try* and help out
10:53<stuarta>i believe it's in the perl/python shell script that wraps up the other utils
10:55<J_t_M>Can you point me toward where I might find the shell scripts? Or at least a filename?
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11:09<GreyFoxx>Well...the field names specifically say "IP Address" :)
11:09<GreyFoxx>oops
11:09<J_t_M>lol
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11:30<abqjp>danielk23, I think janneg spent more time cleaning up my "assembly to C" code, than I spent converting the assembly to C!
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11:35<janneg>well, it wasn't that much time and it was work I like, optimizing braindead code, no offence
11:36<abqjp>None taken :p
11:36<abqjp>That first cut was pretty ugly!
11:36<abqjp>I was just VERY happy it worked.
11:37<janneg>I'm sure our code is simpler than the original code or they are using a very dumb compiler
11:37<abqjp>Yeah.
11:38<janneg>abqjp: it is expected that "decompiled" (even when done manually) C code looks ugly
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11:40<abqjp>I agree about windbg. Nice tool.
11:40<leprechau>gnome upgrade....brb...
11:40<tty01>can someone tell me if i need more than 1 tuner card if i want to run my frontend and backend on just 1 box?
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11:41<janneg>tty01: ask in #mythtv-users
11:41<tty01>doh sorry
11:41<tty01>just read the topic
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11:44<Anduin>J_t_M: it is in mtd, jobthread.cpp mainly
11:47<Anduin>J_t_M: solution 1 in your bug report is currently under way, waiting on a free weekend, we will never have direct support for things like solution 2
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12:39<Cardoe>janneg: what card is your driver for?
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12:40<MrGandalf>cardoe: hd-pvr (Hauppauge)
12:41<Cardoe>is that the new one that does h264 instead of mpeg2?
12:41<MrGandalf>cardoe: yes. it encoded component HD to h264.
12:41<MrGandalf>s/encoded/encodes/
12:41<abqjp>http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html
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12:49<mjj29>abqjp: that appears to record it from analogue
12:49<mjj29>which would seem to defeat the point
12:50<abqjp>I does defeat the ..... DRM. This box is for those people that want to record satellite or cable, but cannot use firewire for one reason or another.
12:52<mjj29>well, except if you aren't using an HDCP-protected output from the HD source it is required to downgrade the quality of any DRM content
12:52<mjj29>so you don't get HD out of it
12:52<abqjp>This discussion should be in mythtv-users.
12:53<mjj29>meh
12:53<iamlindoro__>mjj29, the ICT is only a part of Hd-DVD and blu-ray, not STB outputs
12:53<mjj29>iamlindoro__: sorry, define:ICT and STB?
12:53<iamlindoro__>ICT = Image Constraint Token (the downsampling you mentioned) and STB = Set Top Box
12:54<mjj29>ah yes
12:54<iamlindoro__>There is no ICT on Set Top Boxen... and even if there was, it is trivial (albeit a little pricey) to strip HDCP and convert to component from HDMI.
12:55<mjj29>iamlindoro__: but you don't want to convert to component, you don't want to leave digital
12:55<mjj29>hence why I was surprised it didn't seem to have HDMI input
12:56<iamlindoro__>mjj29, They'd never get authorized to be HDCP-compliant, that's why
12:56<iamlindoro__>It order to bypass copy restrictions, they *must* use the analog outputs of the STB... anyway, don't speak too quickly until you've seen the quality of the HD-PVR captures. While it's not perfect, it is *really* good.
12:57<iamlindoro__>It is not even close to the quality loss you see on cards like the PVR-150. It's pretty minute.
12:58<J_t_M>Anduin: Thanks for the note above (sorry, real life got in the way). Thanks for the update. It'll mean learning C++, but I'll see what I can do to help :)
13:01<mjj29>iamlindoro__: oh, sure, I know why they've done it, and I'm sure it's as good as they can get, but still
13:02<iamlindoro__>In some cases, and here I am speaking of us poor bastards in the USA, beggars can't be choosers :)
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13:26<gbee>HDPVR is defeated in the UK by the use of a broadcast flag equivalent which disables the analogue outputs of the STB, fortunately that only applies to freesat which is already FTA and therefore accessible without the need for a STB
13:26<abqjp>Then why bother?
13:27<abqjp>Or is it just a test for your other providers?
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13:33<gbee>abqjp: because the majority of households aren't going to setup a PC based PVR - they'll buy the STB off the shelf
13:34<gbee>BBC etc aren't interested in stopping all instances of HD piracy, that's an impossible goal, they just want to stop the casual theft of material with people hooking under HD recording devices to their STBs
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13:36<janneg>s/theft/recording/
13:36<erpo>janneg: Thanks. :)
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13:38<gbee>janneg: heh, well they sell freesat PVRs, so recording is fine - but recording with your own device and then potentially passing that recording amoung friends is not
13:39<gbee>among
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13:43<abqjp>So, they don't want casual "friends" to share recordings, but it is okay for more technically savvy people to do it and possibly share with the whole world. The "pirates" in the world are aways going to come up with a way to defeat DRM, and yet it is the rest of us that get penalized.
13:46<gbee>friends and neighbours sharing recordings is far more common and damaging to their business than the torrent networks
13:47<abqjp>Never thought about that.
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13:47<Jimbo_>I would not be happy here if they started disabling the analog HD ports as I bought my HDTV before HDCP existed
13:47<danielk23>isn't this off-topic? ... dev channel...
13:48<abqjp>gbee started it :p
13:48<gbee>think mjj29 did :p
13:51<abqjp>danielk23, if you and janneg do not have time to work on HD-PVR integration into myth (after he gets the driver working), I may give it a go. janneg suggested starting with mpegrecorder.cpp. I will probably have to ask to the two of you lots of questions about it.
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14:34<sphery>gbee: Regarding myth_find_orphans.pl's ignoring DB backups, it's a known "issue," but I completely refuse to spend any time on that script. :) I plan to have--within maybe 2 months--functionality for the backend to automatically scan for "unidentified" files in the recordings directory and automatically add them to the DB (orphaned files) and to, on demand, scan for missing files (orphaned metadata) and allow easy deletion. The ...
14:34<sphery>... auto-scan for orphaned files will also be accessible on demand. Both will probably be accessible through MythXML.
14:35<gbee>sphery: np, I rarely use the script but for whatever reason a few recordings had gone missing so I ran it to clean up
14:36<sphery>It just seems that that script and myth.rebuilddatabase.pl (and several other contrib scripts) don't get the updates they need when Myth changes, so my plan is to allow us to get rid of them completely. :)
14:36<gbee>yeah, it's a good idea
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14:37<gbee>that functionality should probably have been in the backend from the start, so I'm glad you are working on it
14:39<sphery>speaking of scripts, though, got any details on your plan for auto-download of updated scripts? I see it as either being a permissions issue (can't write to /usr/{,local/}share ) or requiring every "user"--and possibly every host--to re-download scripts unless we have some script share location (i.e. like recordings dir) or ability to share scripts via storage groups or something (maybe with the master backend doing the actual ...
14:39<sphery>... re-download).
14:40<sphery>Just wondering as I'm still working on the database backup scripts and wondering about how to push out updates.
14:40<laga>just let the package maintainers take care of that? ;)
14:43<sphery>that has its benefits--at least with the DB backup scripts, as it allows them to replace the "defaults" with customized scripts (and, regardless, the initial install needs to put them in place). For MythWeather scripts/IMDB (if we end up getting permission)/etc., though, I think gbee's idea has merit. I'm trying to decide where the backup/restore scripts fit in the plan.
14:44<laga>yes, it'd be nice to have automagic updating of those screen scrapers. and maybe a better way to select them in the mythvideo screen - entering the correct path is annoying. :)
14:52<gbee>sphery: sorry, I went to get some icecream (it's warm today :) )
14:52*laga <- jealous
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14:53<gbee>I've not given the storage location a lot of thought, I don't think it presents a huge issue to keep scripts in the home directory - how many people run multi-user mythtv setups anyway? If they do then the caches and configs would be duplicated anyway
14:54<laga>what about multi-frontend setups?
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14:55<gbee>laga: same deal, the scrips aren't going to be huge, especially not if compressed - so a few seconds at most to download updates on each frontend isn't much to ask
14:55<laga>true. it should also be possible to supply these scripts manually for those w/o net access.
14:56<gbee>we don't share the cached information between frontends, so mythweather has to re-run on every frontend
14:56<sphery>That's definitely much easier than master backend downloading and sharing to clients, and it still allows for such a change to allow the mbe to handle downloads in the future.
14:57<gbee>laga: well currently I'm thinking of using the service for grabber scripts where net access is already required - so mythvideo, mythweather, mythflix, mythnews
14:57<laga>gbee: um. yes. of course. the only case where net access isn't required are the backup scripts
14:58<gbee>sphery: yep, the actual mechanism will be centralised in libmyth and the plugins will just register their scripts
14:59<sphery>So, the backup/restore scripts need to be in the initial install to ensure they're available the first time mythtv-setup or mythbackend is run.
15:00<sphery>How would we manage installed versus available versions? DB setting with the script version? Just run scriptname --version?
15:01<laga>that'll break for mythvideo scripts i guess
15:01<gbee>mythweather already has a script versioning system, I see that being used for all scripts
15:01<sphery>If the former, how do we find the version for the DB setting (using the latter approach with a DB setting just caching it)? (I just added --version support to my scripts, so the latter would work for me.)
15:02<gbee>but unless the script API has changed we won't require a minimum version of the script
15:03<gbee>sphery: mythweather reports the script version in response to a --version type command, actual syntax is different and I can't remember it at the moment
15:03<sphery>Yeah, just saw the syntax in the README.
15:04<sphery>Mine is different (but -v should work).
15:04<gbee>users won't be required to have all scripts installed, e.g. if a new French grabber were added for mythweather between releases then it would appear in a checklist of avaliable scripts but wouldn't be installed and downloaded unless the user choses it
15:04<sphery>Guess not, since I have both version and verbose args...
15:05<gbee>it can be standardised on --version
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15:06<jams>gbee did you add the versioning for mythweather scripts?
15:06<gbee>jams: no, it was done by the guy who re-wrote mythweather for Google SoC
15:06<jams>just wondering
15:06<sphery>I'm a big fan of long options (but anyone who has read my tickets could have guessed that :)
15:07<gbee>right now it's just informational
15:07<jams>guess the rewrite had a tiny glimmer of goodness.
15:08<sphery>Yeah, it gave gbee something to do with all his spare time. ;)
15:08<jams>hehe
15:09<gbee>oh the rewrite was beautiful, it just wasn't finished and in some areas it needing polishing
15:09<gbee>but the underlying concepts were great
15:10<sphery>So does the C++ code in mythweather parse the output of -v to get the name/version/author/e-mail for weathersourcesettings?
15:10<gbee>yes
15:11<gbee>I say, wondering if I'm remembering that correctly
15:12<sphery>So perhaps I should modify mine. I'll keep --version and --verbose as human-readable info, but add -v (removing ambiguity of option name) and using the MythWeather format.
15:12<gbee>we store the values in the database after the initial scan
15:13<sphery>I really like the idea of a script name (identifier) that's different from the script filename, though. Allows updating functionality with differently-named script files.
15:13<gbee>sphery: I think I might change mythweather to xml, but I'm undecided and it's not a priority
15:14<gbee>the problem of CSV is that order of values has to be preserved which makes removing values tricky
15:14<sphery>Cool. I just didn't want my scripts to be too far off base from "the big plan." They'll modify just as easily as the weather scripts.
15:15<sphery>Yeah, I really didn't feel a need to put my name in the scripts (as I'm not doing the scripts for recognition), so I like the XML-based approach.
15:16<gbee>yeah
15:17<gbee>the one advantage of having names in the mythweather scripts is that you know who to contact in the event that they need updating, but that assumes the author _wants_ to be the one keeping them updated
15:19<gbee>I know some people like to get credit for their contributions and maybe keeping the author information will encourage people to write additional scripts (e.g. French grabber for mythweather, or UK cinema listings)
15:19<gbee>but then in OSS the list of contributors to a file could get very long in a short space of time ;)
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15:22<sphery>Yeah, that's the main reason I don't like to put my name in there. If I write the code and no one else modifies it, I can handle my name on it--I'll take responsibility for my own bugs. Once it starts getting modified, though, I'm not a fan of being held responsible for everyone else's bugs. (And, since those with commit privs, and not me, will be the ones accepting/rejecting changes, I don't feel like I "own" the code enough to ...
15:22<sphery>... put my name in there.)
15:38*xris wonders why sphery doesn't have commit access
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15:48<GreyFoxx>Plausible deniability ? :P)
15:48<GreyFoxx>;)
15:48<sphery>Fortunate enough to get to work on the issues/patches he wants without the responsibility of having to review tickets he doesn't care about?
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16:17*MrGandalf yawns..
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17:13<J_t_M>Hi, I'm just looking at the issue in jobthread.cpp in the MTD module of mythvideo, and I was wondering whether or not it would be possible, in the case of a block-read failure, one could instead return a number of zeros for the block which is unread, rather than ditching the conversion process?
17:14<J_t_M>I'm looking at line 560 of that file.
17:14<J_t_M>s/the issue/an issue I've been having/
17:14<J_t_M>I'm not a C or C++ programmer, so I don't know whether that would be an appropriate response to that issue or not?
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17:16<J_t_M>I'm assuming that this error "DVDPerfectThread read failed for %1 blocks at %2" would be called primarily when reading a disk with scratches or where certain companies insert intentional bad blocks to prevent data being read?
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17:17<J_t_M>Then an error could be produced at the end of the transcoding process (by which method, I've not yet identified) saying that there were X number of bad blocks when transcoding, and that maybe an ISO recording would be better
17:17<laga>does ISO work much better?
17:18<J_t_M>It doesn't cause the same issue.
17:18<J_t_M>And the system seems to skip past it when playing back.
17:18<J_t_M>Does mythvideo use VLC or Mplayer to playback?
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17:23<Anduin>J_t_M: neither, normally
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17:27<J_t_M>I've found that disks which use ARccOS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARccOS_Protection) will crash out early in the transcoding process citing the error message I mentioned above, but when ripping to an ISO, will play back without any problems.
17:31<J_t_M>My reason for asking about VLC and Mplayer was that apparently those don't have the same issue with ARccOS... so this is weird.
17:31<J_t_M>Maybe I'm chasing a wild goose here :(
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17:43<J_t_M>I see this isn't a new problem! :)
17:43<J_t_M>*sigh* OK, never mind, I'll leave it for now.
17:43<J_t_M>I guess to see if that'll fix the problem, I'll need to learn C++ ;)
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17:53<J_t_M>Can someone let me know how to build mtd. I've made some changes, but as I'm not all that great at C++, I don't know how to build this module.
17:53<Anduin>things to circumvent DVD copy protection will not be checked in
17:53<J_t_M>OK, no problem with that.
17:54<Anduin>and you can just 'make' to rebuild mtd
17:54<Anduin>(assuming you've already configured and built before)
17:55<J_t_M>*grins* looks like I've got a LOT more learning to do before I can get into this.
17:55<J_t_M>But, I take your point. I shouldn't try and break copy protection.. it's just so infuriating sometimes.
18:00<J_t_M>Anduin: You must be shaking your head in disbelief at me right now. Sorry if I've wasted your time at all today.
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18:04<Anduin>J_t_M: My only real complaint is that easier things like how to build belong in a tools channel or at a minimum in the -users channel, and the issue is in the archives (though I'll grant, even I didn't want to go dig up a link, not all of us are spherys)
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18:06<laga>skipping bad sectors doesn't sound like a bad thing to do, though. who could know that sony going to make broken dvds?
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18:09<J_t_M>Anduin: I did know about make, but I've never had to build anything without having the makefile before. I guess it makes sense that you can't check in anything to defeat copy protection... and really I should have thought about why the issue was there rather than just trying to fix it. It's my usual problem... itch, scratch it.
18:10<J_t_M>laga: I guess the only thing that would salvage it if someone were to show that it were possible to play back damaged DVDs rather than trying to evade DCMA (or it's international variants)
18:11<laga>possibly. i kinda refuse to even try to understand related IP law because it tends to make me very, very angry. :)
18:11<Anduin>It is more than possible, there are legitimate reasons to make mtd more fault tolerant, of course no one actually starts there.
18:11<J_t_M>lol
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18:17<J_t_M>Presumably one could remove the line after the error response saying return false and then put an else statement where the IF statement currently closes, and finish off by closing the bracket before the increment lines? Then you'd get a bundle of error messages in the log file about bad blocks but it would just skip the blocks it can't read.
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18:20<J_t_M>That would make it more fault tolerant. You could put some kind of trigger into the transcoding engine where if you get more than X blocks it says something like "this transcode encountered a lot of errors. I suspect that this disk may be faulty"
18:21<laga>well, what you just described in your previous message would probably take 3 minutes to try ;)
18:22<J_t_M>True. However, my girlfriend has just asked me what time I'm planning on coming to bed LOL. I'll try that experiment tomorrow if I get ... 3 minutes to spare :)
18:23<laga>best of luck :)
18:23<laga>i got some scratched DVDs i think ;)
18:23<J_t_M>Heh. I just found another one here! Weird :)
18:24<J_t_M>Good night all :)
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19:43<Chase_>I believe there's a bug in the manner in which mythtv resolves the schedules direct url
19:43<Chase_>I've recently switched to an apple airport router, which doesn't provide local dns resolution
19:44<Chase_>they kinda suppose you run an all bonjour/zeroconf network
19:44<Chase_>so I've made my backend use zeroconf
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19:44<Chase_>and set up /etc/resolv.conf with "search local"
19:44<Chase_>most apps are fine after this
19:45<Chase_>like ping webservices.schedulesdirect.tmsdatadirect.com can still resolve the address
19:45<Chase_>but mythfilldatabase cannot
19:45<Chase_>has anyone encountered this?
19:47<Chase_>I had the same issue with ntp, where I had to replace "pool.ntp.org" with "pool.ntp.org."
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19:58<Anduin1>Chase_: which line of code do you object to?
20:00<Chase_>Anduin1, well, I haven't delved that deep into the code
20:01<Chase_>are any external libs used to retrieve the data from the urls?
20:02<Anduin1>Chase_: I'm mostly sure wget is actually under there still
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20:02<Chase_>hmmm, maybe I'll try to just wget the url
20:03<Chase_>and see what it does
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20:08<Chase_>yeah, wget doesn't work right
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