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#mythtv IRC Logs for 2008-07-18

---Logopened Fri Jul 18 00:00:33 2008
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00:12<Chutt>danielk22, yeah, lots of places in qt source even just use toAscii().constData()
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03:19<dmb>hello
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08:40<GreyFoxx>Well, my segfault the other day was not mythweb really, but another script I had that does a mythbackend -resched
08:40<GreyFoxx>any time I call that the backend falls down go boom
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09:07<gbee>hasn't that been fixed recently?
09:09<gbee>maybe not, I just saw a post to the -dev list about it
09:09<gbee>[mythtv] crash with "mythbackend --resched"
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09:13<GreyFoxx>My update was from 2 or 3 day sago
09:13<janneg>it worked monday or tuesday for me
09:13<GreyFoxx>haven't updated since Tuesday night to try again
09:14<GreyFoxx>but I will later today
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09:30<janneg>lol: http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2008-July/228569.html
09:31<janneg>we don't have the resources to make a study so please projects paint yourself as good as possible
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09:50<gbee>Mythtv ticks 99% of the boxes on the survey anyway, but there are some dumb questions in there like "How many video formats does your application support?"
09:50<gbee>err, 20, 50, 100? How many video formats are there?
09:52-!-Termina [n=will@76.249.179.147] has joined #mythtv
09:53<Termina>I joined a discussion in the mythtv-users mailing list about having a torrent client as part of the MythTV frontend
09:53<Termina>I was told it wasn't appropriate (taboo! scary!) for the list, is this appropriate to talk about here?
09:53<laga>no
09:53<Termina>Where, then?
09:54<laga>nowhere
09:54<Termina>Nice
09:54<laga>or somewhere else. i think if you search the arhives, you'll find an explanation why it's not appropriate
09:54<laga>or unwanted by the mythtv developers
09:54<Termina>'RIP DVD' option = OK. Torrent = BLACK MAGIC
09:54<Termina>gotcha
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09:54<laga>bwah bwah bwah
09:55<gbee>I'm sure even you can see the difference between ripping a copy of your own DVD and downloading pirated films/tv/music
09:55<laga>he's gonna
09:55<laga>err, gone
09:56<gbee>heh, that's going to happen to me a lot - I don't want join/part messages enabled because it just makes it harder to read through scroll back
10:02<gbee>I used to be pretty ambivalent about people downloading stuff via bittorrent, I'm not squeaky clean - I used Napster/Limewire back in the day, but the more they try to justify it's inclusion in Myth the less I respect torrent users
10:03<laga>i guess everyone downloaded stuff.. but now i appreciate real CDs a lot more
10:03<Dibblah>Personally, I'd love to see movie / TV downloading in Myth.
10:04<Dibblah>But then the issue that noone offers a legal DRM free option is a bit limiting.
10:06<gbee>I buy CDs for whatever music I can't download legally and DRM free, although quite a lot of what I like is available DRM free - I buy the ocassional DVD for films that blew me away, but otherwise I go to the cinema or record it when it appears on TV
10:08<gbee>there are times when I wish I didn't have to buy a whole CD for a single track, but it's not annoying enough for me to try downloading it via bittorrent
10:09<gbee>and I don't really buy into the hype over films or TV series enough that I _have_ to see it before it's DVD or TV release
10:10<laga>i listen to a lot of music on youtube.. but the quality is too bad :)
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10:11<gbee>with digital radio you can always record it direct from there if you want
10:12<laga>the stuff i want is not on radio usually
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10:16<gbee>heh, I know what you mean
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11:27<sphery>laga: George Nassus was doing some major changes to MythVideo to move all file handling to use Storage Groups (and, I'm assuming move them to the backend). There's a (very long) thread at http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/307958#307958 . Haven't really heard anything more from him since then (I think just one update saying something about other things coming up but he's still working on it).
11:27<sphery>laga: If nothing else, you may want to send a query to him/the -dev list to see what progress he's made and whether he'd be interested in sharing the current patches for you to work with/finish.
11:28<GreyFoxx>If there are newer patches than what was on the ticket he started I'd love to see them too
11:28<sphery>It also involved some changes to Storage Groups (the main one I remember--one I need to finish up some stuff--is to allow Storage Group types, i.e. for backups, for MythVideo, for recordings).
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11:29<sphery>Oh, yeah, speaking of the ticket: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4623
11:30<sphery>Anyway, I just thought that both MythMusic and MythVideo should use a similar approach.
11:31<gbee>I'd love to see mythvideo, mythmusic and mythgallery use storage groups and stream from the backend - in addition to local file support of course
11:36<sphery>stuarta: BTW, did you see the thread where a user is getting \u0005 (ENQ, Enquiry) in his EIT data ( http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/342019#342019 )? I have no idea how it should be handled (or whether it's just a mistake by the broadcaster), but thought you (or janneg or someone else) would be much more qualified to help/fix the problem (if it's in Myth)/suggest he contact the broadcaster (if not).
11:37*stuarta doesn't read -users
11:37<stuarta>sphery: you'll have to poke me on monday about that one, away for the weekend in a few hours
11:37<sphery>OK. Thanks.
11:44<janneg>Dibblah: well there are perfectly legal sources for Miro/Democracy Player
11:45<stuarta>time to rescan the dvb-s and *this* time i'm going to save the logfile!
11:45<janneg>for example a couple of shows of one german public broadcaster
11:47<gbee>there are legal sources of DRM free video and supporting those in Myth if possible would be great
11:47<gbee>e.g. the BBC iPlayer
11:47<gbee>although iPlayer isn't DRM free ...
11:48<janneg>sphery: that's probably caused by the fixup of charset which is not necessary anymore
11:48<janneg>I was going to say that
11:50<Chutt>hah
11:53<Chutt>anyone familiar with rtp/rtsp at all?
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12:03<Cardoe>sphery: I've heard of ENQ being used as a sort of "make your request here.." or "continuation coming"
12:03<Cardoe>It could possibly be something on their backend to frontend communication
12:03<Cardoe>or it could be separating out the chunks of data
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12:06<laga>sphery, gbee: i was probably misleading nin my inquiries regarding upnp support for mythvideo - i was just bouncing ideas around (and gathering information for my mytharchive patch). i might take a look, but i've got to finish some mythbuntu stuff first :)
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12:08<gbee>laga: oh well :)
12:08<laga>i'm afraid that's a rather popular thing to do :(
12:09<laga>but i've got lots of spare time right now so why not sit down with a c++ book ;)
12:10<sphery>laga: Perhaps once you get the MythArchive/MythBuntu stuff done, George will have his patch done, too. :)
12:11<sphery>janneg / Cardoe : Thanks for looking into it. I knew it was way over my head.
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12:17<Cardoe>sphery: but in this case why it's appearing.. janneg is probably right
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12:44<Chutt>awesome
12:44<Chutt>i'm a grumpy old man! =)
12:46<Chutt>_and_ i'm the reason mythtv isn't successful
12:46<Chutt>neato
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12:53<gbee>am I missing some fun on the -users list again?
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12:53<Chutt>yeah
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13:02<gbee>just read the thread, these people are idiots and what's worse is they are only being so vocal because they want someone _else_ to write their bit torrent client for them
13:04<gbee>not once in these threads or IRC tirades has anyone put their money where their mouth is and just written a 3rd party torrent plugin - like we keep telling them they are entitled to do
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13:06<Chutt>heh
13:06<Chutt>there _is_ a lot more legal content these days
13:09<gbee>yep, I was just about to say that maybe it would be easier to include a bittorrent client but to lock down the trackers and permitted torrents to those from legal sites (hardcode them in other words)
13:10<gbee>people will still choose to patch their installs, but we can't be accused of making it easy for users to break the law
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13:11<gbee>by conceeding that much we'd end these threads entirely because they'd have no grounds to argue
13:12*kormoc shrugs
13:13<gbee>http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/?p=1458
13:13<kormoc>Personally I'd be for just saying, no BT talk on the mailing list, and if you talk about BT, you get banned from the list after your first warning
13:14<gbee>that would work too, at least for keeping the threads spiralling out of control
13:15<sphery>gbee: end the threads or change their focus to "why are the trackers hard-coded?" "why do the devs mark my patch to un-hard-code trackers invalid" "why is Chutt such a grumpy old man"--oh, wait, that one's not a change :)
13:15<gbee>although I suspect they'd just migrate to other mythtv forums causing problems for others
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13:16<sphery>My pet peeve is that everyone assumes that the Rip DVD option does something illegal because they install libdvdcss, so the ripped DVD "seems" unencrypted to them.
13:17<kormoc>should start hard coding if (uname == someone we don't like) die (); into the code... :P
13:18<gbee>sphery: it may go that way, though I'm not so sure it would - most of these people are emboldened to make their stand because there are legal uses for bittorrent, you take that argument away from them and you'll shut most of them up
13:18<sphery>that makes sense
13:19<gbee>not because they actually want legal bittorrent - they want the illegal stuff, but shouting in a public forum "Give me my illegal files" takes a little more guts than these guys have
13:21<gbee>sphery: it's not even illegal in all countries to create a copy of a DVD you own and even if it is illegal, it's a grey issue - you won't get done for copying someone you own for your own purposes
13:22<gbee>downloading something you don't own from other people, in breach of copyright is on an entirely different level
13:22<sphery>yeah, I realize that (and tried in my post to mention "in some areas" appropriately)
13:23<Virindi>Transferring a DVD to your PC to watch from there when you still own the DVD is clearly fair use in the US, DMCA or not
13:24<gbee>recording from the TV is techincally frowned upon, but commercial VCRs and PVRs are old in stores up and down the high street - it's an accepted right, just like ripping a DVD or CD
13:25<Virindi>if by 'frowned upon' you mean the content producers would like it to be illegal but it is not, then yes
13:25<sphery>Decrypting the DVD for playback without a license is clearly a breach of (some) law (contract/whatever) in the US, DMCA or not. Licenses are not transferrable (I bought the DVD drive and it came with WinDVD or I own a STB DVD player that I don't use just don't cut it).
13:25<gbee>but no-one really thinks they've got the right to download pirated films and TV series, they know the difference but they are grasping for straws
13:26<Virindi>I never signed any contract when I bought my DVD drive or my DVDs.
13:26<sphery>I've heard that time-shifting has an upper end in the US. I.e. you must watch any recorded within a "reasonable time" (often determined to be about 30 days from date of broadcast).
13:26<kormoc>Virindi, who said it was signed contract based?
13:26<Virindi>If you used your DVD playback software, that came with the drive, maybe.
13:27<Virindi>>> Decrypting the DVD for playback without a license is clearly a breach of (some) law (contract/whatever) in the US
13:27<kormoc>it's a breach of law
13:27<gbee>Virindi: recording from the TV or Radio is a breach of copyright, you don't own the broadcast so fair use doesn't apply (at least in most countries), but it's accepted that viewers want the convienence of recording shows because they might not be home etc
13:28<Virindi>sphery: is there actually a case on that, or is that just someone's speculation?
13:29<gbee>TV/Radio broadcasts are much like concerts and cinemas, where you have no right to record the show/film
13:29<kormoc>Max reasonable time shifting was brought up as one of the terms of the tivo settlement, no?
13:29<kormoc>I don't believe it was actually signed into law
13:31<sphery>Long story, but my statement is primarily based on lawyers' findings during a review of US copyright law at the US Air Force Academy in the early '90's as cadets who were illegally copying software were found to be in violation of the Academy's Honor Code. I haven't hired any lawyers to follow up (but I'm pretty sure I've seen some mention of reasonable time in the copyright laws).
13:32<Virindi>The definition of fair use is pretty general in the law, the main case law on the subject is the Sony case from the 80s
13:32<sphery>kormoc: they did add/attempt to add the automatically delete the recording after some period of time functionality to TiVo's.
13:34<Virindi>Though if you really get down to it, the court might see a significant difference in Myth's ability to automatically skip commercials too
13:34<kormoc>Yeah, but that was civil settlement, not law iirc
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13:38<janneg>Virindi: why? I doubt anyone can argue that commercials and show/film/... are a single work
13:40<Virindi>Because the harm to the copyright holder is greater if you don't watch the commercials.
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13:41<Virindi>Part of the definition of fair use requires that the harm to the copyright holder be taken into account, and part of the court decision that allowed time-shifting as fair use was based on the idea that people still had to watch the commercials
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14:03<skamithi>gbee: i like your idea about prepending member variables with "m_" . i'll go ahead and change the dvd code to this standard.
14:08<gbee>skamithi: cool, like I said I find it helps with reading code - knowing it's a member variable means you know where to find it's initialisation and destruction, that if it's modified deep in a method that you need to inspect the whole class for the impact and that sort of thing
14:10<j-rod>man, I don't pop over here often enough. works turning *me* into a grumpy old man...
14:12<j-rod>architectural question... does a remote frontend-only machine ever have need of mythcommflag?
14:12<gbee>building seek tables for videos in mythvideo
14:13<j-rod>someone pointed out the fedora packages have it in the -frontend sub-package, and their backend-only machine stopped commflagging when they removed it, as a result
14:14<j-rod>ah, damn, so it does need it
14:14<gbee>so yes, there is an occassional need, we probably shouldn't depend on mythcommflag for rebuilding seektables, but currently it's the only way for some video types
14:15<j-rod>ok, np, I can just make a separate -common sub-package that both -backend and -frontend Requires:
14:15<gbee>huh, wrapping is broken in the libmyth/qt popups
14:16<janneg>the frontend should be able to do it, the code is there
14:19<janneg>it's on my todo list
14:29<j-rod>I have way too many things on my todo list... been sitting on lirc patches for upstream for way too long now...
14:29<j-rod>not to mention the patches for this usb stick tuner I picked up
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14:29<j-rod>and a bunch of firewire stuff
14:29<j-rod>ugh.
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14:33<GreyFoxx>What video types do users need to build a seek table? I use mythvideo al the time and have never had to do that
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14:56<GreyFoxx>Ok, just updated again and I still get a segfault with a --resched
15:07<sphery>GreyFoxx: I think that--although the Internal player is supposed to be able to skip/jump/ffwd/rew without a seektable in all formats using the libav* "guesstimates"--the code to do so in MPEG-2 seems seldom tested, so it's often broken. Some on the lists have been reporting that it's currently broken in -fixes.
15:07<GreyFoxx>http://www.pastebin.ca/1075836 Does that look the the bug that was fixed the other day ?
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15:44<clever>GreyFoxx: seeking in .mpg files from mythtv works fine in mplayer so the file itself doesnt seem broken
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16:07<CDev>So are we targeting Qt4.3 or 4.4? I was thinking of using QThreadPool and just noticed it's new to 4.4
16:11<Chutt>try to keep to 4.3
16:11<Chutt>4.4 for optional stuff
16:11<CDev>ok.
16:13<Chutt>if you really want it, though
16:14<Chutt>and the class is small (which this one appears to be)
16:14<Chutt>you can pull it into myth for 4.3 users
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16:16<CDev>:) I was just looking at the source to see how large it was.
16:19<CDev>I guess I'll have to build a vm with qt4.3 on it to test with before commiting anything.
16:22<Chutt>going to pull it in, then?
16:23<CDev>Thinking about it. I have a ThreadPool that I wrote in libmythupnp already, just wanted to use qt for all it offers.
16:24<CDev>I'll play around with it so see if it's worth the effort.
16:26<Chutt>less work going forward to use theirs, i'd imagine
16:32<CDev>Chutt: Am I remembering correctly that you change VERBOSE to use qDebug() but then changed it back because you didn't like how it was formatting the messages?
16:33<Chutt>correct
16:33<Chutt>strings have a "" in them, etc
16:34<CDev>I found that you can call qInstallMsgHandler( ...) to supply a method to handle the formatting.
16:34<Chutt>it doesn't allow you to override all the formatting
16:34<Chutt>any QString arg will still have quotes added around it
16:35<CDev>ah.
16:39<CDev>If we do start backporting some smaller qt4.4 classes, where would you like them to live?
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16:54<Chutt>libmythdb, probably
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18:01<gbee>oh, *#$&
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18:17*kormoc blinks at gbee
18:18<gbee>making a right mess of these commits
18:20<gbee>accidently committed something I didn't mean to, then since that broke compile I decided to add the rest, but missed a bit .... so it's all fubar atm
18:22<janneg>seems to compile now
18:23<janneg>no, it doesn't
18:23<gbee>juggling too many changes, doesn't seem to help that I'm having to evolve the API as I convert mythvideo
18:26<gbee>doesn't compile? err, what am I missing ...?
18:26<gbee>compiles here
18:28<janneg>linker errors
18:28<gbee>might need to distclean mythui if you are using ccache
18:28<janneg>../../libs/libmythui/libmythui-0.22.so: undefined reference to `typeinfo for MythUICheckBox'
18:28<janneg>../../libs/libmythui/libmythui-0.22.so: undefined reference to `MythUICheckBox::valueChanged()'
18:28<janneg>../../libs/libmythui/libmythui-0.22.so: undefined reference to `vtable for MythUICheckBox'
18:29<gbee>yeah, mocs weren't rebuilt after I added Q_OBJECT
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18:30<janneg>I thought I did a distclean after updating to 17863
18:31<gbee>well it's the only explanation I can think of
18:32<gbee>like I said, it's compiling here and I can't see anything missing from the original patch, or missing at all from the changes
18:32<janneg>it works now
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19:09<janneg>GreyFoxx: I can reproduce the --resched segfault
19:21<janneg>and almost fixed
19:34<janneg>where are "ANN Monitor host want_events" messages generated?
19:35<janneg>my grep/ack-fu is limited
19:36<Captain_Murdoch>mythcontext.cpp
19:38<janneg>thanks, I missed it between all the MediaMonitor occurances
19:41<janneg>I fail to see why it misses the want_events parameter
19:41<kormoc>janneg, -l can be handy, it only lists the filenames of files that match the pattern, not the actually matched line, much easier to find the correct file that way sometimes
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19:50<Captain_Murdoch>janneg, looks like it's missing the 1 at the end because it has an extra space at the beginning. see this dump from the backend with "-v network" http://www.pastebin.ca/1076074
19:52<janneg>yeah, got that too. I fail to see there the space is coming from
19:59<clever>janneg: moar VERBOSE!
20:00<clever>gdb can also alert you to when an object changes but that gets tricky with QString's
20:02<Captain_Murdoch>janneg, there's an extra 0 in front of the length, so length '031 ' still gets read as 31 and the last space that is supposed to be part of the 8-char length field is read as part of the data instead.
20:08<janneg>I don't see that
20:10<janneg>Captain_Murdoch: where do you see the 0? in the payload from the sending process?
20:11<Captain_Murdoch>yes
20:11<Captain_Murdoch>not in the payload, but in an strace
20:11<janneg>ah, ok
20:11<Captain_Murdoch>strace shows a "write(0,"0",1)" then a few lines later write(0, "31 ANN Monitor panther.bc2v"..., 39) = 39
20:16<janneg>yes, I see that now
20:19<Captain_Murdoch>that "0" is being written in MythSocketThread::WakeReadyReadThread after we call MythSocket::Lock after we open the connection initially.
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20:20<Chutt>the fds get messed up somehow?
20:20<Captain_Murdoch>that also explains why my frontend has been printing 0's occasionally when I run it. I keep seeing lines with 0000 on them.
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20:21<Captain_Murdoch>connect() is passed 0 as the fd
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20:22<Chutt>in MythSocketThread::WakeReadyReadThread
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20:22<Chutt>add a:
20:23<Chutt>if (!m_readyread_run)
20:23<Chutt> return;
20:23<Captain_Murdoch>connect(0, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(6543), sin_addr=inet_addr("192.168.3.100")}, 16) = 0
20:23<Chutt>that should fix it.
20:23<Captain_Murdoch>where at?
20:23<Chutt>at the beginning
20:23<Captain_Murdoch>of readyread?
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20:24<Chutt> void MythSocketThread::WakeReadyReadThread(void)
20:24<Chutt> {
20:24<Chutt>+ if (!m_readyread_run)
20:24<Chutt>+ return;
20:24<Chutt>+
20:24<janneg>Captain_Murdoch: fd 0 could be correct since we close stdin in mythbackend/main.cpp
20:24*Captain_Murdoch is glad libmythdb rebuilds so fast. :)
20:25<Captain_Murdoch>yeah, I was thinking it was ok
20:27<Captain_Murdoch>reshed worked, no segfault, but the resched "client" is still sitting there, it didn't exit after sending the command to the backend and getting the response from the backend.
20:27<janneg>Chutt: it fixes it
20:27<Captain_Murdoch>janneg, so your "mythbackend --resched" client exitted normally?
20:27<Chutt>Captain_Murdoch, gotta rebuild client and server
20:27<Chutt>just in case
20:27<Captain_Murdoch>both on dev box
20:28<Chutt>hrm
20:28<Chutt>restarted the backend?
20:28<janneg>no, it looks it waits for something
20:30<Chutt>what's it doin now?
20:31<janneg>http://www.pastebin.ca/1076106
20:32<Chutt>hrm
20:33<Chutt>don't see anything wrong
20:33<Chutt>you might want to add some debugging to the readyread thread's run()
20:33<Chutt>ooh
20:33<Chutt>ah
20:33<Chutt>got it
20:33<janneg>no, I'm going to bed now
20:33<janneg>good night
20:33<Chutt>i'll fix it :p
20:34<Captain_Murdoch>g'night.
20:35*Captain_Murdoch is having to wait for a near full recompile because of the version change. was sneaking by before, but putting a debug comment in mythbackend caused it not to run anymore because of the version mismatch.
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20:40<Chutt>wait a minute
20:40<Chutt>i need to change mythsocket.h
20:40<Chutt>so
20:40<Chutt>oh, even better
20:40<Chutt>nevermind
20:41<Chutt> void MythSocketThread::WakeReadyReadThread(void)
20:41<Chutt> {
20:41<Chutt>+ if (!isRunning())
20:41<Chutt>+ return;
20:41<Chutt>+
20:41<Chutt>try that
20:43<Captain_Murdoch>ok, patched, but waiting for the rest to finish recompiling. I really need to upgrade my dev box sometime. P4 @ 2.4Ghz. :( I need to setup a distcc farm at work so I can harness some of those idle server ticks at night.
20:44<Captain_Murdoch>almost done
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20:48<Captain_Murdoch>also need to get my /usr/local and my /home off the same drive. slows down "make install" too much.
20:49<Captain_Murdoch>that worked, no segfault and the client exitted normally.
20:50<Chutt>feel free to check that in =)
20:50<Captain_Murdoch>ok.
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21:20<iamlindoro>That fix seems to have corrected #5532, no longer seeing the segfault there... maybe someone can confirm for me from the logs that it looks likely and then can probably close that one.
21:27<Captain_Murdoch>I don't see how it was related. 17747 was a long time ago relatively since my commit was 17864, it could have been fixed by something else (including a clean recompile) if you can't reproduce.
21:28<iamlindoro>Well, 17747 was a clean recompile (updated at that time to try to solve), so probably not that, but regardless, appears to have been resolved since then. In fairness it was barely a week ago :)
21:28<Captain_Murdoch>only a week, but almost 120 commits
21:28<iamlindoro>Indeed
21:29<iamlindoro>Was still present as of a build yesterday, for reference
21:29<iamlindoro>But all's well that ends well :)
21:30<Captain_Murdoch>ok. and it happened 100% of the time, or just sometimes?
21:30<iamlindoro>100%
21:30<iamlindoro>ergo the ticket name :)
21:30<iamlindoro>erm, first sentence, that is
21:30<Captain_Murdoch>yeah, saw that, but just wanted to make sure it was still happening 100% of the time.
21:30<iamlindoro>yeah... but now all seems well
21:30<Captain_Murdoch>after all, it was a week ago. :)
21:31<Captain_Murdoch>sorry, missed the crash.log. I was looking at the gdb output and nothing stood out there. the crash log makes it look like this was the fix, yes.
21:31<iamlindoro>Nice... big thanks from me
21:33<Captain_Murdoch>I would have expected some read/write messages in there if it was "-v all" though. could have been a side-effect.
21:33<Captain_Murdoch>read/writes occur earlier but not right at the crash.
21:33<iamlindoro>I promise it was :)
21:33<Captain_Murdoch>yeah, I see them up above.
21:35<Captain_Murdoch>I'll mark as fixed and you can reopen if it reoccurs.
21:35<iamlindoro>Sounds like a plan, thanks
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---Logclosed Sat Jul 19 00:00:13 2008