Back to Home / #mythtv / 2008 / 08 / Prev Day | Next Day
#mythtv IRC Logs for 2008-08-29

---Logopened Fri Aug 29 00:00:40 2008
00:07-!-stoth [n=stoth@ool-18bfe594.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
01:01-!-turbo [n=brian@dsl086174.dyndsl.nettally.com] has joined #mythtv
01:02-!-devicenull [n=devicenu@64.252.38.36] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:03-!-briand [n=brian@dsl086212.dyndsl.nettally.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:12-!-famicom_ [i=famicom@c51447fbf.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #mythtv
01:23-!-famicom [i=famicom@c51447fbf.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:31-!-obake-san [n=tndt@c-24-0-242-16.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #mythtv
01:33<obake-san>hey, i want to connect a video game console to my pc using mythtv, is there a way to set it so the composite input does not have the delay? i assume that would mean that it would not record the composite input
01:33<obake-san>i already tried using tvtime just for the video games, but it doesnt support my card
01:57<clever_>yet another person trying to do that!
01:57<obake-san>heh
01:57<clever_>no way to make live tv lag free
01:57<obake-san>everything iv read says no
01:58<obake-san>but i figured id check
01:58<clever_>what card?
01:58<obake-san>cant get xawtv or motv to work either
01:58<obake-san>wintv pvr150
01:58<clever_>thats works just fine under tvtime
01:58<obake-san>it gives an error about ivtv
01:58<clever_>tv out also?
01:59<obake-san>and on the tvtime website it says ivtv isnt supported
01:59<obake-san>well, tv out is on the normal video card
01:59<cesman>obake-san: please take it to the user channel
01:59<clever_>just bypass the whole computer then
01:59<clever_>hook the game console into a 2nd input on the tv
02:00<obake-san>oh, i didnt even see that in the topic
02:00<clever_>cesman: maybe it should be in bright colors?
02:01<cesman>color don't matter if people don't read
02:01<clever_>but it would be more eye catching to draw your attention
02:01<clever_>and posibly make more people read
02:11-!-jhulst [n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
02:12-!-PointyPumper [n=pintlezz@190.244.67.231] has quit [Connection timed out]
02:26-!-Dibblah [n=Dibblah@80-192-14-169.cable.ubr02.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #mythtv
02:36-!-edannenbe [n=edannenb@mail.blooparkstudios.de] has joined #mythtv
03:10-!-xris [n=xris@xris.forevermore.net] has quit []
03:12-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-0bffd40bfb756fbd] has joined #mythtv
03:13-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-0bffd40bfb756fbd] has quit [Client Quit]
03:14-!-gbee [n=stuartm@cpc3-derb9-0-0-cust581.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
03:14-!-gbee [n=stuartm@cpc3-derb9-0-0-cust581.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #mythtv
03:18-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-431fdad6adaebb42] has joined #mythtv
03:24-!-xris [n=xris@xris.forevermore.net] has joined #mythtv
03:25-!-xris [n=xris@xris.forevermore.net] has quit [Client Quit]
03:34-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-431fdad6adaebb42] has quit []
03:35-!-_gunni_ [n=Gunni@xdsl-84-44-135-124.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
03:35-!-_gunni_ [n=Gunni@xdsl-81-173-248-71.netcologne.de] has joined #mythtv
03:51-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-c59e828450ce163d] has joined #mythtv
03:53<justinh>laga: I can't remember what license I originally used. I can't even look in my subversion log since I started it again
03:53-!-PointyPumper [n=pintlezz@190.244.67.231] has joined #mythtv
03:56<justinh>clever_: wild horses couldn't get some people to notice. If they're not paying attention (and lets face it most of the questions people ask when they first join the channel could be answered with ONE google query)...
03:57<clever_>yeah
04:00-!-joobie [n=joobie@201.023.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
04:14-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-c59e828450ce163d] has quit []
04:22-!-jk`gentoo [n=jason@dslb-092-073-094-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #mythtv
04:27-!-obake-san [n=tndt@c-24-0-242-16.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["i couldn't get laid in a whorehouse with a fistful of 50 dollar bills."]
04:30-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-bb74757d17ed38c7] has joined #mythtv
04:31-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-bb74757d17ed38c7] has quit [Client Quit]
04:34<justinh>anyway.. happy Friday :)
04:35-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-a20a0efa7246dfc3] has joined #mythtv
04:37<stuarta>yay for friday
04:37-!-stuarta is now known as fred_basset
04:45*justinh shakes his fist at this version of inkscape for not having a layer dialog
04:46<justinh>.. and at the person who nicked the remote for the 32" LCD monitor again.. grrr
04:47-!-MaverickTech [n=Maverick@111.86.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #mythtv
05:05-!-XChatMav [n=Maverick@111.86.233.220.exetel.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
05:10-!-MaverickTech [n=Maverick@111.86.233.220.exetel.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
05:18-!-jk`gentoo [n=jason@dslb-092-073-094-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:25<laga>justinh: you used Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported
05:32<justinh>well, it could now be that "do whatever the heck you want" license. GPL will do. I really don't care if anybody tries to pass it off or whatever
05:33<laga>alright then
05:36-!-dekarl [n=deKarl@dslb-084-058-004-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #mythtv
05:49<justinh>I'm redoing glass-wide in svg. rather laborious but keeps me off the streets
05:49-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-a20a0efa7246dfc3] has quit []
05:49-!-fred_basset is now known as stuarta
05:50<stuarta>justinh: you should get a job doing that
05:50<laga>justinh: would you be OK with me changing the background back to cinema.png? i don't want people complaining because the theme looks different
05:50-!-dekarl1 [n=deKarl@dslb-084-058-004-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:51<justinh>laga: yeah sure, but some stuff needs to have the contrast improved for that to work better - unless you just darken cinema.png a little
05:51<laga>hum
05:51<laga>not sure i can do that with a simple patch system ;)
05:52<justinh>see how it works for you. I'm never sure about contrast on my laptop monitor
05:52<laga>will do
05:52<laga>it worked well with the older release
05:53<justinh>trying it here over my freenx server
05:55<justinh>I think the only fault, if you could call it that is the number buttons in mythmusic's play screen
05:55<laga>not enough contrast?
05:55<justinh>yeah that, and the progress indicator. red on red
05:56-!-dagar_ [n=dagar@206-248-137-66.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:57<justinh>some of those watermarks are damn awful but nobody ever complained ;)
05:57<laga>my progress bar is blue
05:57-!-dagar_ [n=dagar@206-248-137-66.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #mythtv
05:57<justinh>really? lol
05:57<justinh>did you edit it yourself?
05:57<laga>the theme? no
05:58<laga>i blame my qt theme
05:58<justinh>oh no I meant the music progress indicator
05:58<laga>ah
05:58<justinh>a quick 90 degree colour phase shift with imagemagick would fix that ;)
05:59<justinh>I need to get into scripting to help produce my graphics en-mass
05:59<justinh>that way I could just export all the graphics & composite them in a script
06:00<justinh>either that or just take advantage of more layering in the ui
06:03<justinh>in PSP9 I just slapped everything in one file on loads of layers. each watermark was a layer group on top of the base layers. enable one group at a time & save as.. blech
06:05<gbee>that's how I did the icons in metallurgy
06:05<gbee>change the background even a little and .... :(
06:06<gbee>so in mythui land I'll layer it, which will allow making change the colour scheme easier
06:07*justinh wonders if a <chroma> attribute would be possible to produce mono graphics
06:07<gbee>heh, already thought of that :)
06:07<justinh>ok then.. a <sepia> attribute :P
06:08<gbee>:p
06:11<laga>justinh: hum, the progress bar is barely noticeable, but it's there ;)
06:14<justinh>must be some kind of record that I've not got sick of that theme yet
06:24<laga>justinh: what color would you suggest for the mythmusic progress indicator when used with cinema.png?
06:24<justinh>blue or green would stand out better
06:25<justinh>infact green might be better altogether
06:25<laga>yeah
06:25<laga>ah, it's an image. i hoped it was just a color definition in the XML
06:29<laga>is it correct that the core themes don't have the progressindicator container?
06:29<justinh>laga http://homepage.ntlworld.com/justin.hornsby2/screenshots/progress-filler.png :)
06:29<justinh>laga: probably. I never got round to them
06:29<laga>thanks
06:30<laga>consider yourself hugged :)
06:30<laga>hum, i'll rename the old one and add a README.debian
06:30<justinh>hope I don't turn into an advocate or anything ;)
06:30<laga>you'll be OK
06:31<justinh>or worse still, a community manager :P
06:38<laga>i'm afraid i need to uuencode that png for the package.. gah
06:39<clever_>this is weird
06:39<clever_>im watching plain tv
06:39<clever_>and i keep reaching for the mythtv keyboard to skip comercials:P
06:40<clever_>i allready spent 3mins trying to fix the keyboard before i remembered i wasnt even on the tvout
06:41-!-clever_ is now known as clever
06:45<justinh>laga: would it help if I just made a new tarball?
06:45<laga>no. now i've got it working :)
06:47<justinh>yeah the green works much betterer
06:48<justinh>reminds me I need to look at the EPG icons. they're green in the shared dir but on my frontend they come out red. wonder if the files are the same
06:48<justinh>heh now that'd be cool. stream themes from the backend
06:48<laga>yeah, it's much better now
06:48<laga>the german translation seems a bit big for the number buttons *sigh*
06:48<laga>i hope mythui will make stuff like that better
06:49<justinh>there was a patch to make those buttons graphical instead. I'd much prefer that
06:51<gbee>number buttons?
06:53<justinh>edit playlist, shuffle, etc
06:53-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-e99eb12e623d97e6] has joined #mythtv
06:53<justinh>gerrandomizationsehn .. or something ;)
06:55<justinh>putting text on those buttons makes them a bit of a waste of space with any language though
06:57<gbee>aye
06:58<laga>for future reference: make sure that the power cord is plugged in before removing the battery from the laptop
06:59<gbee>it's hard to see how mythui might handle longer strings in some translations any better than the old ui - scaling the buttons to fit the text is out since it will screw up layouts
06:59<laga>shrink the text size?
06:59<laga>show the full text if the button is highlighted?
06:59<justinh>icons are universal :)
06:59<gbee>maybe
07:00<justinh>use them wherever possible :)
07:00<gbee>I prefer visual representations though, like justinh said
07:00<gbee>a big green tick for OK, big red X for cancel etc
07:00<justinh>or, just make everybody learn English. muhahahah
07:02<justinh>hrm. seems I never got around to theming the miniplayer for glass-wide
07:10<justinh>ooo. flickr have an API. that gives me another 'todo' idea
07:15-!-mikecharest [i=1880ae56@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-797bd5dee48425ea] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"]
07:21-!-MaverickTech [n=Maverick@111.86.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #mythtv
07:42-!-alcoheca [n=alcoheca@xbmc/gsoc/alcoheca] has joined #mythtv
07:52-!-noisymime [n=josh@98.65.96.58.exetel.com.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:52<justinh>heh. I had this big-shot idea to rearrange the 'watch recordings' menus but I can't think of a way to get them all on one menu key & not be a mess
07:56<gbee>I think some of the search screens could be combined
07:56<justinh>I think judicious grouping could make my plan possible and keep clutter down
07:57<justinh>for my own purposes I'd rather have programme details available without having to go into recording options
07:58<gbee>justinh: press i
07:58<justinh>yeah that's on the 'i' menu
07:58<justinh>I'd much rather 'i' represented 'info'
07:59<gbee>uh? hmm I must have rebound things, i here goes direct to the programme details
07:59<justinh>as in select a show, press I & see programme details
07:59<gbee>yeah, that's how I have it setup
08:00<justinh>the default is this.. press M when a group is selected & see the 'group (ish)' menu
08:00<justinh>press I when a show is selected & see 'play, add to playlist, mark as watched, yada yada'
08:00<gbee>DETAILS binding in the TV playback context
08:00<justinh>you know I never even considered it'd be possible to use keybindings
08:01<gbee>err, "TV Frontend"
08:01<justinh>having 2 separate menu keys seems counter-intuitive still though
08:01<gbee>true
08:01<gbee>we should only have one menu on each screen, I'm definately behind that
08:02<justinh>now I can't remember what the menu patch I sent ages ago does
08:02<justinh>was something to do with options vs actions IIRC. let's see
08:03<justinh>ah yes
08:04<justinh>#4743
08:04<clever>just fork bombed myself!
08:09<justinh>gbee: I once saw you say you'd read somewhere that more than 6 menu items is a v. bad idea. there are way more than that in some menus. do you have any thoughts on reducing the vertical area?
08:10<justinh>grouping is one way but that can be bad for inducing submenu hell
08:10<justinh>context can help to an extent but it's not always possible
08:10<gbee>don't remember that, although I might have been talking about the main menus were most themes assume ~6 items
08:11<gbee>I wouldn't enforce just six in other menus
08:11<justinh>heh
08:11<justinh>I think a good limit is 8 or 9 as far as what'll comfortably fit with a decent font size
08:11<gbee>sure
08:12<gbee>I've already grouped the mythvideo menus that way
08:13<justinh>I'll do some mockups & take a peek at the code to have a go at trying the ideas out for real. I know they'll be going the way of mythui eventually but it's only to try possible alternative layouts
08:14<justinh>I can imagine there being some resistance to the idea too
08:14<gbee>ok, changed the log version string to "2008-08-29 13:12:55.004 mythfrontend version: trunk [18225M] www.mythtv.org" and made it the first entry in the log
08:14<justinh>I can but try :)
08:15<justinh>well, time to do some real work. got some samples of a new IR receiver to test
08:15<gbee>justinh: go for it, it needs doing
08:17<laga>gbee: is there any special font i need for your theme? i've already got vera sans covered
08:20<gbee>Bitstream Vera Sans is the only font used
08:21<gbee>fonts are all defined in base.xml
08:21<gbee>err, theme.xml in the 0.21 version
08:21-!-Dubstar_04 [n=laptop@cpc2-warr4-0-0-cust778.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has joined #mythtv
08:21<laga>thanks
08:22<gbee>may switch it to Dejavu Sans in future (Bitstream Vera Sans but better license and more supported chars)
08:22<justinh>better kerning too :D
08:23<laga>gbee: when did you start working on that theme? i'm supposed to put a year in the copyright file ;)
08:23<laga>c) 2008 Stuart Morgan <stuart@tase.co.uk>
08:23<gbee>late 2007
08:24<laga>so it's 2007, 2008
08:24<gbee>yeah
08:24-!-alcoheca [n=alcoheca@xbmc/gsoc/alcoheca] has quit ["sleeping"]
08:24<gbee>think I started work in November and final-ish version was released in Jan
08:31-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-e99eb12e623d97e6] has quit []
08:32<laga>gbee: the osd will live in a separate package. does that just need the osd.xml and the osd subdir?
08:33<gbee>laga: needs the themeinfo.xml too
08:33<gbee>think that's it ... I'll check
08:33<justinh>oh bugger you just reminded me of an unreported bug in glass-wide. one of the OSD graphics needs to be changed. I based it on projectgayhem-osd & forgot to redo one file
08:34<laga>oh, that's ugly. that'd require some patching..
08:34<laga>ah, let's do it ;)
08:34<justinh>might not manage it today, what with 'real' work getting in the way
08:35<justinh>I want to change the base res anyway
08:35<justinh>it's gone unnoticed for this long ;)
08:35<laga>haha
08:36<justinh>or maybe people are just scared to report problems :D
08:37<justinh>btw felt a pang of tinge of pride watching that latest systm 'mythtv' video
08:38<gbee>ok, osd.xml, themeinfo.xml, osd directory, osd_preview.png (renamed preview.png) should be enough
08:39<gbee>you'll need to edit themeinfo.xml for each, removing the <type> lines as necessary
08:39<gbee>otherwise it will show up twice in the settings
08:39<justinh>how does themeinfo.xml figure when the osd is combined with the main theme?
08:39<justinh>I should've sorted that when I did gw
08:40<gbee><types><type>ui</type><type>osd</type><type>menu</type></types>
08:40<justinh>duh stupid me
08:41<justinh>eep. 11 screws hold this pcd in place when 4 would do if they had clips at one end
08:42<gbee>pcd?
08:42<justinh>pcb
08:42<gbee>:)
08:44<laga>gbee: yes, thanks
08:45<justinh>nobuddy round here has heard of design for manufacture, it seems
08:46<gbee>how about design for servicing?
08:46<justinh>even less so
08:46<justinh>you should see if insides of our cases
08:46<justinh>s/if/the
08:48<justinh>change a MMC card? oh sure. remove 23 screws to be able to take the lid off, remove lid, remove a fan, unplug 4 sata cables...
08:48<justinh>keeps people in jobs I guess :D
08:50<justinh>hrm, suppose if I edit themeinfo.xml to include the OSD it's going to bugger up the scaling cos it's not the same base res or aspect as the UI theme
08:51<justinh>I'll update the OSD first I think
08:54<justinh>laga: IIRC somebody wanted the scroller lowered didn't they? I'll take it to the bottom of the safe area when I update it
08:55<justinh>should be ready in time for Jinxed Jabberwork or whatever they're gonna call it
08:55<laga>ah, so no new tarball for intrepid
08:55<justinh>when would you need it by?
08:57<laga>september 11th, or september 25th
08:57<laga>but the latter is really pushing it
08:57<justinh>easy then. it'll be a week at most
08:57<laga>great
08:58<laga>ok
08:58-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-13e97252e8951864] has joined #mythtv
08:58<laga>then stick the red filler thingy in there as well. you dont have to reference it in an xml, i can just copy it around
09:13-!-Cardoe [n=Cardoe@gentoo/developer/Cardoe] has joined #mythtv
09:13-!-reynaldo [n=rverdejo@190.20.196.188] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
09:15<laga>odd. i'm getting "Theme metallurgy-osd missing preview image.".
09:16<laga>gbee: http://laga.ath.cx/themeinfo.xml - here's my themeinfo.xml for the osd package. osd_preview.png is installed into ./usr/share/mythtv/themes/metallurgy-osd/osd_preview.png
09:16<laga>do you see anything odd with thatß
09:16<gbee>hmm, maybe I implemented that part of the code ... didn't think I have
09:17<gbee>laga: ahh, yeah I haven't implemented the osdpreview bit yet, the image needs to be renamed to preview.png
09:18<laga>okay, i can do tht.
09:18<gbee>or better yet, rename the attribute to "preview" instead of "osdpreview"
09:18<laga>oh, that saves me lots of work
09:19<gbee>the format of themeinfo.xml is ahead of the code
09:22<laga>thanks, works now
09:26<justinh>heh I'm really beginning to prefer inkscape over PSP now
09:29<laga>"removed: .bzrignore"
09:29<laga>"added: .bzrignore" - FFS, bzr!
09:30<justinh>hrrrr. no videos on my laptop to test the osd with :-\
09:32*gbee ponders the irony of justinh working for a CCTV manufacturer but not having any video handy
09:32<justinh>*good quality videos*
09:33<justinh>oh wait I should have an image of a DVD I made here somewhere
09:35<justinh>bah none of it's 16:9 though
09:38<justinh>gbee: we have a choice here, some grotty feeds of the building cameras as analogue video, megapixel mjpeg webcams or stuff we record in some weird propriatary secure watermarked format. the viewer software can save as avi but that's not much cop
09:39<justinh>ahem. so concludes the sales pitch :P
09:39<gbee>;)
09:43<laga>gbee: i wonder if XMLTV configs should live in the storage groups
09:44<gbee>if we go that route then arguably all configuration stuff should have a storage group
09:45<anykey_>yeah, like, mythvideo covers etc
09:45<gbee>for now just storing the absolute path to the config should be enough of a workaround/
09:45<gbee>?
09:45<laga>gbee: my priority right now is getting a fix for fixes, so.. what you said.
09:46<laga>ok, then i'll add a schema update to dbcheck.cpp to store the full path, add code to read that and fall back to the old behavior if there's no entry.
09:46<laga>.. in the database.
09:51-!-SHADOW__X [n=Jose@RH-Redwood-CS2-140-136.njit.edu] has joined #mythtv
09:51-!-SHADOW__X [n=Jose@RH-Redwood-CS2-140-136.njit.edu] has left #mythtv []
09:54-!-SHADOW__X1 [n=Jose@RH-Redwood-CS2-140-136.njit.edu] has joined #mythtv
09:54-!-SHADOW__X1 [n=Jose@RH-Redwood-CS2-140-136.njit.edu] has left #mythtv []
09:55-!-dekarl1 [n=deKarl@dslb-084-058-004-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #mythtv
10:00-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-13e97252e8951864] has quit []
10:01-!-SHADOW__X2 [n=Jose@RH-Redwood-CS2-140-136.njit.edu] has joined #mythtv
10:01-!-SHADOW__X2 [n=Jose@RH-Redwood-CS2-140-136.njit.edu] has left #mythtv []
10:09-!-dekarl [n=deKarl@dslb-084-058-004-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
10:23-!-dageorge [n=david@adsl-065-015-104-082.sip.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
10:24<justinh>gbee: had a wacked out idea at lunchtime btw for a kind of 'general' plugin. goes off & executes some program or other which returns data in a format we know about (say xml) & displays info onscreen. could be anything, program it calls could be written in any language. just a simple info page. could have some uses for people & be a sort of mega-simple plugin API. wouldn't have an immediate use for it myself but it coul
10:26<gbee>justinh: sounds good, has certain parallels with what I'm working on for xmltv configuration - they have an XML configuration API for getting configuration questions into an application UI and then answers back out
10:27-!-jhulst [n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst] has joined #mythtv
10:27<gbee>so we translate that information into a user friendly UI and you no longer have to go to the console to setup xmltv
10:27<laga>justinh: MythPython? ;)
10:28-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-49ad960bdf10e301] has joined #mythtv
10:28<justinh>laga: I thought mythpython was all about latching onto existing objects & making them accessible from outside
10:29<laga>yeah, python bindings for libmyth basically
10:29<justinh>what happened to it btw?
10:29<laga>not much i'm afraid :/
10:30<justinh>this'd basically be simpler than that AFAIK
10:30<laga>sure
10:30<justinh>if your excuse for doing something like mythpython is that 'the bar for entry' is too high, don't block it with another language ;)
10:30<laga>maybe something distro maintainers could do.. think mythbuntu-control-centre in mythui
10:30-!-Dave123 [i=nobody@cpe-72-230-182-200.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
10:31<laga>s/do/use/
10:32<gbee>now we're cooking with gas
10:33<jams>yeah if only someone would do that ....
10:33<justinh>but then - and I have to confess I've never thought of it this way before - I think what some people really mean is "but we could just re-use other people's hard work with some minor tweaks"
10:36-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-49ad960bdf10e301] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
10:36-!-jgarvey [n=jgarvey@cpe-098-026-069-229.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
10:36-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-72edc250adb0dd51] has joined #mythtv
10:36-!-Dave123 [i=nobody@cpe-72-230-182-200.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
10:36<laga>justinh: that's the spirit of open source :)
10:37-!-famicom_ [i=famicom@c51447fbf.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["Leaving"]
10:37-!-famicom [i=famicom@c51447fbf.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #mythtv
10:41-!-iamlindoro_ [n=iamlindo@12.232.47.77] has joined #mythtv
10:45-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-72edc250adb0dd51] has quit []
10:57<janneg>isn't a remote storage dir used if there is not enough space on the local one
10:59-!-cojonuo [n=cojonuo@157.Red-83-52-64.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #mythtv
11:00-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-7b69e52cb8aa6973] has joined #mythtv
11:00<gbee>no? That would require the remote storage dir being nfs mounted I guess, since there is no backend to backend transfer than I'm aware of
11:00<gbee>it would be nice if it did work that way
11:01-!-cojonuo [n=cojonuo@157.Red-83-52-64.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
11:05<gbee>somehow I don't think that many trade shows will be held in Germany in future - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/29/customs_raids_german_show/
11:05<gbee>that's the third or fourth time in the last two years that German Police/Customs have effectively shutdown tradeshows by confiscating exhibited gear
11:06<gbee>how long before software patents are used to target Linuxtag etc?
11:07<janneg>gbee: remote means in this context a mounted network filesystem
11:07<gbee>janneg: ok, sorry I don't know then
11:07<gbee>Captain_Murdoch if he's around would know best
11:08<janneg>gbee: those raids started already a couple of years ago
11:08<gbee>janneg: yeah, like I said :)
11:08<janneg>and I think linuxtag is pretty save, at least for the projects
11:09<janneg>gbee: more than 2
11:13-!-abqjp [n=John@71.92.115.92] has joined #mythtv
11:14-!-lyricnz [n=simonrob@conference/drupal/x-7b69e52cb8aa6973] has quit []
11:24-!-Dubstar_04 [n=laptop@cpc2-warr4-0-0-cust778.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
11:27-!-foxbuntu_vm [n=foxbuntu@99-203-172-160.area2.spcsdns.net] has joined #mythtv
11:27-!-edannenbe [n=edannenb@mail.blooparkstudios.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
11:53-!-abqjp [n=John@71.92.115.92] has quit ["Leaving"]
11:56-!-jhulst [n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
11:57-!-stoth [n=stoth@ool-18bfe594.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #mythtv
11:59-!-foxbuntu_vm [n=foxbuntu@99-203-172-160.area2.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
12:01-!-foxbuntu_vm [n=foxbuntu@70-13-119-145.area2.spcsdns.net] has joined #mythtv
12:05-!-Dubstar_04 [n=laptop@cpc2-warr4-0-0-cust778.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has joined #mythtv
12:06<sphery>janneg: Did you see http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/256679#256679 and http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/297293#297293 ?
12:18<Dubstar_04>MythCalc screenshot for feed back
12:18<Dubstar_04>http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n106/Dubstar_04/mythcalc.png
12:18-!-foxbuntu_vm [n=foxbuntu@70-13-119-145.area2.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
12:19-!-foxbuntu_vm [n=foxbuntu@99-200-234-149.area2.spcsdns.net] has joined #mythtv
12:27-!-Chutt [n=ijr@dsl093-011-148.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
12:31-!-Goga777 [n=Goga777@213.170.123.250] has joined #mythtv
12:35<Dubstar_04>http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n106/Dubstar_04/mythcalc-1.png
12:44-!-xris [n=xris@63.236.57.140] has joined #mythtv
12:46-!-rockyroc1 [n=rockyroc@78.110.111.132] has joined #mythtv
12:47<rockyroc1>hi guys, i have Skystar2 (rev1) DVB card, can i use mythtv on Ubuntu 8.04.1 to watch DVB channels???
12:47-!-foxbuntu_vm [n=foxbuntu@99-200-234-149.area2.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
12:50-!-rockyroc1 [n=rockyroc@78.110.111.132] has left #mythtv []
12:52-!-abqjp [n=John@71.92.115.92] has joined #mythtv
12:58-!-jhulst [n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst] has joined #mythtv
12:59-!-kormoc [n=kormoc@unaffiliated/kormoc] has joined #mythtv
13:02-!-dagar_ [n=dagar@206-248-137-66.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:07-!-kormoc [n=kormoc@unaffiliated/kormoc] has quit []
13:15-!-kormoc [n=kormoc@unaffiliated/kormoc] has joined #mythtv
13:16-!-Goga777 [n=Goga777@213.170.123.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:18-!-Goga777 [n=Goga777@hpool.chp.ptl.ru] has joined #mythtv
13:19-!-huhlig [n=huhlig@64.3.128.146.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #mythtv
13:25-!-kormoc [n=kormoc@unaffiliated/kormoc] has quit []
13:28-!-dekarl1 [n=deKarl@dslb-084-058-004-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)]
13:28-!-iamlindoro__ [n=iamlindo@12.232.47.78] has joined #mythtv
13:29-!-kormoc [n=kormoc@unaffiliated/kormoc] has joined #mythtv
13:32-!-Goga777 [n=Goga777@hpool.chp.ptl.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:34-!-Goga777 [n=Goga777@hpool.chp.ptl.ru] has joined #mythtv
13:38<Dubstar_04>Updated screenshot for mythcalc (plugin-tutorial)
13:38<Dubstar_04>http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n106/Dubstar_04/mythcalc-2.png
13:41-!-iamlindoro_ [n=iamlindo@12.232.47.77] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:42<laga>looks pretty neat
13:45-!-jhulst [n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:50-!-Goga777 [n=Goga777@hpool.chp.ptl.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:52-!-Goga777 [n=Goga777@hpool.chp.ptl.ru] has joined #mythtv
13:58<teprrr>Dubstar_04, btw, usually numbers are in their own group and +, -, *, % etc. are aligned right from them
13:59<teprrr>but don't know how that'd work with mythcalc though :)
13:59<Dubstar_04>I don't think the details really matter, as it is only meant as a tutorial
14:00<Dubstar_04>It does look odd
14:15-!-zmig [n=lolanon@96.28.203.214] has joined #mythtv
14:24-!-foxbuntu_vm [n=foxbuntu@70-13-45-229.area2.spcsdns.net] has joined #mythtv
14:25-!-dagar [n=dagar@206-248-137-66.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #mythtv
14:36-!-Dubstar_04 [n=laptop@cpc2-warr4-0-0-cust778.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
14:37-!-jhulst [n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst] has joined #mythtv
14:41<teprrr>ok, just wanted to say that. looks simple enough for a nice tutorial indeed :)
14:45<justinh>looks like er.. a calcumulatorifier
14:48-!-dagar [n=dagar@206-248-137-66.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
14:50-!-dagar [n=dagar@206-248-137-66.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #mythtv
14:58-!-the_alien [n=the_alie@dslb-084-060-076-219.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #mythtv
14:58<the_alien>the upnp server is up and running when i have mythtv installed, right?
14:59<iamlindoro__>see topic
14:59<the_alien>oh sorry
15:00<justinh>mmmm topic http://tinyurl.com/5533q4
15:00<iamlindoro__>sweet delicious topic
15:02-!-MrGandalf [n=mgandalf@cpe-72-225-44-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
15:08-!-prg3 [n=prg3@playground.cein.ualberta.ca] has quit ["leaving"]
15:08-!-prg3 [n=prg3@playground.cein.ualberta.ca] has joined #mythtv
15:09-!-dagar [n=dagar@206-248-137-66.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
15:10-!-dagar [n=dagar@206-248-137-66.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #mythtv
15:18-!-prg3 [n=prg3@playground.cein.ualberta.ca] has quit [Client Quit]
15:18<gbee>eww, topic
15:20<gbee>so I've spent the last couple of nights trying to work out a bug in mythuibuttontree, only it's not a bug there but one with mythgenerictree and the fact that it doesn't give nodes unique IDs making a mockery of the route setting stuff
15:24<gbee>or maybe it's more an issue with mythvideo, think that's probably a more accurate description
15:24-!-Dubstar_04 [n=laptop@cpc2-warr4-0-0-cust778.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has joined #mythtv
15:31-!-equim [n=Martin@82-71-48-119.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #mythtv
15:50-!-prg3 [n=prg3@playground.cein.ualberta.ca] has joined #mythtv
15:50-!-Dubstar_04 [n=laptop@cpc2-warr4-0-0-cust778.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
16:00-!-aevil [n=aevil@ip-78-94-3-7.hsi.ish.de] has joined #mythtv
16:15-!-_gunni_ [n=Gunni@xdsl-81-173-248-71.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:22-!-foxbuntu_vm [n=foxbuntu@70-13-45-229.area2.spcsdns.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:33-!-_gunni_ [n=Gunni@xdsl-81-173-248-108.netcologne.de] has joined #mythtv
16:34-!-Goga777 [n=Goga777@hpool.chp.ptl.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:55-!-reynaldo [n=rverdejo@190.20.196.188] has joined #mythtv
16:57-!-Anduin [n=awithers@adsl-69-110-14-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #mythtv
17:05-!-jgarvey [n=jgarvey@cpe-098-026-069-229.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:07-!-the_alien [n=the_alie@dslb-084-060-076-219.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:33-!-cojonuo [n=cojonuo@157.Red-83-52-64.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #mythtv
17:36<cojonuo>Hello guys, now I have a API KEY for MiroGuide, soon add this to MythTube
17:36<cojonuo>but now I don't have free time :-(
17:39<iamlindoro__>cojonuo: You've done a really great job so far-- I hope you stick with it-- most people talk about making the plugins they want, you have worked very hard at it
17:39-!-Chutt [n=ijr@dsl093-011-148.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #mythtv
17:43<iamlindoro__>You should be proud of your work-- it has been a long time since someone did what you've done
17:43<cojonuo>thanks but now I need a small help
17:45<cojonuo>iamlindoro: can you fix my tube-ui.xml?? because I don't have time to do it :-)
17:46<iamlindoro__>cojonuo: What would you like done to it?
17:46<iamlindoro__>and -wide only, or both?
17:46<cojonuo>both
17:46<iamlindoro__>ok, tell me what is broken
17:47<iamlindoro__>I have some time this weekend, so I am happy to help
17:48<cojonuo>you send me a mail, about overscan
17:49<cojonuo>Now i send you my last tube-ui.xml
17:50<iamlindoro__>ah, ok... send me the whole current tarball if you like
17:50<iamlindoro__>I will adjust them this weekend
17:50<cojonuo>ok, thanks
17:50<iamlindoro__>maybe tonight when I am bored :)
17:50<cojonuo>you are robert MacNamaran??
17:50<iamlindoro__>You are welcome, you are doing a very good job
17:51<iamlindoro__>yes
17:51<cojonuo>ok
17:51<iamlindoro__>well, close enough anyway :)
17:56<cojonuo>other question, about convert MythTube to official plugin, what is necessary?? any special thing??
17:57<cojonuo>And other, To process MiroGuide request they use Python diccionary and I need add libPython to my program to evaluate it
17:57<cojonuo>MythTV now need libPython or MythTuve add a new requeriment??
17:58-!-xris [n=xris@63.236.57.140] has quit []
17:58-!-renato_ [n=renato@200.184.118.132] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
18:00-!-Cardoe [n=Cardoe@gentoo/developer/Cardoe] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:02<iamlindoro__>I think the "official plugin" question is better left to the core group of guys in here, but I would guess that some of the requirements would be a) the code be clean and not too crashy, and 2) you would be willing to maintain it when something breaks
18:03<iamlindoro__>I don't believe that libpython is currently a Myth dependency, but a new one wouldn't be the end of the world
18:04<cojonuo>ok
18:05<iamlindoro__>Out of curiosity, cojonuo, if MythTube became an official plugin, are you okay with continuing to support and develop it?
18:13-!-tdseth [n=tdseth@64.178.96.214.dynamic.dejazzd.com] has joined #mythtv
18:13<tdseth>hey all. can someone tell me how to add netflix to my mythtv install in ubuntu?
18:21<iamlindoro__>see topic
18:23<tdseth>oh, I see. thanks.
18:25<iamlindoro__>speaking of which, if Mythflix with its need to pull out RSS information and insert it directly into the DB with mysql can become an official plugin, then there *must* be hope for MythTube ;)
18:27-!-tdseth [n=tdseth@64.178.96.214.dynamic.dejazzd.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:30-!-huhlig [n=huhlig@64.3.128.146.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:32-!-aevil [n=aevil@ip-78-94-3-7.hsi.ish.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:34-!-noisymime [n=josh@98.65.96.58.exetel.com.au] has joined #mythtv
18:42-!-equim [n=Martin@82-71-48-119.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:44<gbee>I don't see the parallel :)
18:46<gbee>speaking personally I'd be happier if we didn't add a dependancy on Python - I know MythArchive already uses it, but perl is already more widely used and does the same job
18:47<gbee>I recognise that I'm probably in a minority on that point
18:49<gbee>and this isn't an anti-python thing, even though I'm not it's biggest fan, it's just about keep dependencies down
18:49-!-the_alien [n=the_alie@dslb-084-060-076-219.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #mythtv
18:52<justinh>heh. mythbrowser pulls in half of kde
18:53-!-equim [n=Martin@82-71-48-119.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #mythtv
18:54<gbee>used to, doesn't anymore
18:55-!-the_alien [n=the_alie@dslb-084-060-076-219.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Verlassend"]
18:55-!-clever [n=clever@fctnnbsc16w-156034209182.nb.aliant.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
18:55<sphery>gbee: if the dependency is only in MythTube, then it could be disabled just like MythArchive--at least until some Python-hater writes a Perl replacement/alternate script :)
18:55<gbee>and mythmusic hopefully won't pull in libmad, libfaad, libvorbis and libogg among others in 0.22, mythgallery no longer pulls in libtiff etc
18:56-!-stoth [n=stoth@ool-18bfe594.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:57<gbee>sphery: oh I agree that's probably what will happen, but suggesting that it be would better to write everything in perl from the start ;)
18:58<gbee>like I said, I doubt enough people will agree with me to change things
18:58<iamlindoro__>Then again, if his only option to add the feature is a set of python bindings, he's sort of limited optionwise
19:02<gbee>not sure where the python bit comes in, you have to use some python library they provide? Seems strange
19:02<justinh>what about just not having miroguide? that an option?
19:07-!-clever [n=clever@fctnnbsc16w-156034212232.nb.aliant.net] has joined #mythtv
19:07<gbee>I think disabling certain grabbers based on finding python installed is definately an option, but packagers will still want everything enabled so most poor sods will still need to install a ton of packages
19:09-!-famicom [i=famicom@c51447fbf.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["Leaving"]
19:10-!-Dibblah [n=Dibblah@80-192-14-169.cable.ubr02.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
19:16-!-mtoscano [n=mtoscano@van-fw.blastradius.com] has joined #mythtv
19:17-!-mtoscano is now known as moj0rising
19:17-!-famicom [i=famicom@c51447fbf.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #mythtv
19:19<rooaus>cojonuo: I had an idea for mythtube... I was going to try and add a "-n" option to the grabber scripts to return a "pretty" grabber name, then use that in the UI in the selection box. Also could use the "-i" return for a grabber description. What do you think?
19:20<rooaus>^^^ Inspired by the way the tv_find_grabber stuff works in mythtv-setup. Seems a nice alternative to "script1.pl" "script2.pl" etc
19:21<gbee>mythweather does that, works well
19:21<gbee>also returns author and version information
19:22<rooaus>gbee: Cool, another place to steal code from (pattern code on) :D I was worried about the threading stuff, but I guess I just need to try it.
19:23<cojonuo>is a good idea
19:23<cojonuo>the -n and -i
19:23<cojonuo>please to no forgot send me on trac
19:23<cojonuo>ok??
19:24<rooaus>cojonuo: ok, will see what I can do.
19:24-!-moj0rising [n=mtoscano@van-fw.blastradius.com] has left #mythtv ["Konversation terminated!"]
19:24<cojonuo>about python, I need it because MiroGuide provide me a python diccionary on your API request
19:25<rooaus>gbee: I guess I will need to use the data (QVariant) stuff for mythuibuttonitem? ie Store the pretty name in the text and the actual script name in the data part, is that correct?
19:25<cojonuo>and need use function "eval" to evalueate it, if any body know other mothod...
19:26<cojonuo>(eval is a python funtion)
19:26<gbee>rooaus: that's one way of doing it, or create a ScriptInfo struct/class which you store in the data part and which contains all the script info you might need
19:26<cojonuo>iamlindoro__: about "continuing to support and develop it", yes
19:27<iamlindoro__>There you go, you heard it here first
19:27<iamlindoro__>But then, I have no authority in such matters :)
19:27<cojonuo>as far as possible
19:27<rooaus>gbee: Sounds like a better idea. Cheers
19:28<justinh>well, to win those over who may be against one more dependency.. better make it kick ass ;)
19:28<iamlindoro__>info re the Miro API: https://develop.participatoryculture.org/trac/democracy/wiki/MiroGuideApi
19:29<iamlindoro__>"datatype: the type of data you want back. Either 'python' (the default) or 'json' (optional)"
19:29<iamlindoro__>dunno if JSON might be more easily used
19:29<cojonuo>ups jeje
19:29<cojonuo>I don't read it
19:29<justinh>could the stuff just be converted into xml on the fly by the plugin? ;)
19:29<cojonuo>I don't now, i need investigate
19:29<gbee>define "overuse it "
19:30<gbee>python is now a data type?
19:30<cojonuo>no
19:30<cojonuo>but return a python dictionary
19:30<justinh>why not just parse it? doesn't look too complicated
19:31<justinh>ok it'd be like reinventing the wheel but it'll save another dependency
19:31<gbee>I like the sound of JSON :)
19:31<justinh>why the heck they didn't just use xml anyway....
19:31<justinh>bandwidth saving by the looks of it
19:31<gbee>cojonuo: ok, until now I didn't know what a python dictionary was :)
19:31<cojonuo>is a way
19:31<kormoc>justinh, mod_deflate/mod_gzip == bandwidth win
19:32<gbee>justinh: the option of JSON strongly suggests that yes, they are trying to save bandwidth
19:32<justinh>kormoc: yeah but zipping each query result would eat their cpu
19:32<rooaus>I need to do some gardening now, but as I have jury duty on Monday I will look at the mythtube stuff then.
19:32<kormoc>justinh, it's surprisingly not that bad
19:33<gbee>but then again things like JSON are actually overused and in situations where they don't really make significant gains over gzip'd xml etc
19:33<gbee>justinh: a lot of pages you browse daily are probably gzipped and you don't even notice
19:34<gbee>they are inflated on the fly by the browser with very little speed impact
19:34<justinh>heh yeah true
19:34-!-Tatsh [n=Tatsh_zz@c-76-19-126-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #mythtv
19:34-!-Tatsh [n=Tatsh_zz@c-76-19-126-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #mythtv ["Lesbians lesbians lesbians"]
19:35<cojonuo>then JSON is the best choice??
19:35<cojonuo>and QT provide JSON support??
19:37<gbee>I don't know if it does, but I'd probably still use a perl script for all grabber support
19:37<justinh>heck I could maybe write perl to parse that
19:37<cojonuo>but i need do many call to MiroGuide API
19:38<cojonuo>I need use it into my code
19:38<justinh>why?
19:38<justinh>the API is just a description of what to do isn't it?
19:38<gbee>hardcoding makes updates harder - in the future all scripts will be held on mythtv.org and when an API changes a new script will be published, then automatically downloaded to the users frontend
19:40<cojonuo>yes, but to do a good guide UI I think I need add it to code
19:40<cojonuo>or I need use more script call
19:41<gbee>cojonuo: it's your plugin, I'm just giving my opinion
19:41<cojonuo>ok, and I appreciate it :-)
19:42<gbee>mythweather is the best example of how I think it should be done, but xmltv is another and in future mythflix, mythvideo, mythmusic will all use external scripts to interact with 3rd party websites
19:43<justinh>cojonuo: I'll try to scribble some kind of mockups to work from on the UI part. I need to install miro to see how it works on there first though
19:43<cojonuo>ok, I know scripts is the best way but I need think who do it...
19:44<gbee>scripts can be installed by the user and just work, they can be released and automatically downloaded by the frontend without us having to release a new mythtv version
19:44<justinh>yeah how long was mythweather broken? ;)
19:44<gbee>cojonuo: I know it's extra work, I'm sorry. You don't have to listen to me :)
19:45<cojonuo>no but is a good way
19:45<hads>JSON has the advantage of being able to create an object/dictionary/mapping easily in most languages where as if you use XML it can take more work to parse.
19:45<justinh>the best road is not always the easiest ;)
19:45<gbee>justinh: yeah, old one was hardcoded, took months before a new working version was available - now users could just download the fixed scripts and have it working again in hours/days
19:46<justinh>gbee: assuming they can chmod :P
19:46<justinh>well time to reboot into linux so I can start doing my menu doodles
19:46<cojonuo>i use script to search on youtube.com... jeje
19:47<gbee>hads: I'm not drinking the JSON cool aide ;) I like JSON, it has it's place but I'm not convinced that it's any harder to work with than XML
19:48<cojonuo>well, good night, I will sleep
19:48<hads>Don't get me wrong, I use and like both, it's just that an obj = eval($JSON) or obj = loads($JSON) is in some situations a lot easier than parsing an XML tree to get what you want.
19:48<gbee>huh, apparently it's Kool-Aide, not Cool Aide
19:49<gbee>or better yet, Kool-Aid .. no e
19:49<gbee>those wacky Americans
19:49<hads>heh, wouldn't have known that
19:50<sphery>shouldn't kormoc be in here for the JSON discussion since MythWeb is using it? :)
19:51<gbee>hads: most languages have libraries which do the same thing with XML - e.g. Perl has XML::Simple (or something like that)
19:51-!-cojonuo [n=cojonuo@157.Red-83-52-64.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:51<justinh>wonder if perl has a python dictionary thingy
19:52<hads>It's a hash or whatever.
19:52<justinh>would not be surprised if it has
19:52<gbee>for JavaScript (read AJAX), yes JSON is what you want, XML would be nonsenical
19:53<hads>gbee: Agreed, although from my usage of both (in web services) I find JSON a little simpler to deal with most of the time.
19:54<gbee>if it's the API for something serving hundreds of thousands of hits a day, again JSON for it's relative compression compared to XML
19:56<hads>If I want to read it myself XML is much easier :)
19:56<justinh>well, perl has json stuff so I guess that wins for me
19:56<justinh>not that I'm a big lover of perl, mind
19:56<gbee>"Darling warns of economic crisis" << FFS, sack that man for telling the country what we all knew over a year ago and yet he denied time after time
19:57<justinh>Darling.. a more inapt name there has never been for a chancellor ;)
19:58<justinh>heh looking at this json example I've just found it's not a billion miles off from what the python dictionary stuff is. to my ignorant eye
19:58<gbee>politicians live on another planet
19:59<gbee>I imagine they are very similar, one probably inspired the other - as in "Crap, java(script) has JSON and we're losing the battle for hearts and minds, lets copy them!"
20:00<gbee>standardising probably never even occured to them once
20:01<hads>It's because Python has a convention to represent it's objects in string format so that they can be eval'd back into an object. JSON is basically the same thing from Javascript.
20:09-!-iamlindoro__ [n=iamlindo@12.232.47.78] has quit []
20:12-!-mikecharest [i=1880ae56@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-dbe46a28306c0aa7] has joined #mythtv
20:15<kormoc>gbee, the x in ajax stands for XML :P
20:15<gbee>heh, true
20:16<kormoc>thing is, deflate on xml gives surprisingly nice results, so at times xml isn't all that bad
20:18<hads>Yeah, deflate is great with XML usually
20:20-!-iamlindoro_ [n=iamlindo@12.232.47.78] has joined #mythtv
20:24<justinh>hrmph. so much for my cunning plan so far. recording list menu is 10 items long
20:27<justinh>wonder if there's any scope for a 'more menu' affair, so you could press M to bring up _a_ menu, then press it again to switch it to the other options - or would that be too confuzzling?
20:28<kormoc>Hrm. I'd personally be more for scrolling to more options or a next page of options idea
20:28<kormoc>next page being a button/ui indication
20:28<justinh>yeah, the submenus don't have anything like as many options so they could easily have a 'back' feature
20:29<kormoc>As long as there's indication that's used elsewhere, I'm for it
20:29<justinh>I think 9 items is as many as you can get onscreen at 1280x720 with a good font size, so hitting 10 is a nono
20:29<kormoc>the thing I hate most about UI is when there's a different way to indicate more of something every place
20:29-!-noisymime [n=josh@98.65.96.58.exetel.com.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:30<justinh>yeah well that's one of the things mythui is all about innit ;)
20:31<kormoc>Sure, I just felt like preaching to the choir
20:31<justinh>I think if a themer decides the popup isn't high enough, the buttons'd scroll under mythui's goodness anyway - but then too many options in one list is bad even when you're scrolling
20:32<justinh>myth gets a lot of stick for its UI but to be fair, a lot of us have SOs who figured it out easily enough - and we do have a lot of options compared to consumer gear
20:34-!-stoth [n=stoth@ool-18bfe594.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #mythtv
20:38-!-reynaldo_ [n=rverdejo@40-255-20-190.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #mythtv
20:38-!-iamlindoro_ [n=iamlindo@12.232.47.78] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:38-!-iamlindoro_ [n=iamlindo@12.232.47.78] has joined #mythtv
20:48-!-Martin_ [n=Martin@82-71-48-119.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #mythtv
20:48-!-Martin_ is now known as equim-
20:52-!-Jimbo_ [i=hidden-u@relay.optinc.com] has left #mythtv []
20:55-!-reynaldo [n=rverdejo@190.20.196.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:58<justinh>think I have it worked out now. all I have to do is code it up. heh
20:58-!-equim- [n=Martin@82-71-48-119.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit ["sleep"]
21:02-!-Netsplit kubrick.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: jhulst, RaYmAn-Bx, Agrajag-, _charly_, abqjp, Honk, Norrit_, iamlindoro, growler, hads, (+7 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
21:03-!-Netsplit over, joins: jhulst, abqjp, Honk, iamlindoro, mzb_d800, RaYmAn-Bx, _charly_, tomimo, Agrajag-, growler (+7 more)
21:05-!-iamlindoro__ [n=iamlindo@12.232.47.78] has joined #mythtv
21:05-!-iamlindoro_ [n=iamlindo@12.232.47.78] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:05-!-mikecharest [i=1880ae56@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-dbe46a28306c0aa7] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"]
21:07-!-equim [n=Martin@82-71-48-119.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
21:09-!-mikecharest [i=1880ae56@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-18e7bb733153a71c] has joined #mythtv
21:39-!-iamlindoro__ [n=iamlindo@12.232.47.78] has quit []
21:45-!-stoth [n=stoth@ool-18bfe594.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
22:37-!-dageorge_ [n=david@adsl-065-015-104-082.sip.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #mythtv
22:47<Chutt>hrm
22:48<Chutt>trunk's not compiling here
23:02-!-kormoc [n=kormoc@unaffiliated/kormoc] has quit []
23:07-!-Chutt [n=ijr@dsl093-011-148.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:07-!-dageorge__ [n=david@rrcs-70-61-214-222.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
23:08-!-dageorge__ [n=david@rrcs-70-61-214-222.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:21-!-famicom [i=famicom@c51447fbf.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:25-!-dageorge_ [n=david@adsl-065-015-104-082.sip.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
23:45-!-Chutt [n=ijr@dsl093-011-148.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #mythtv
23:47-!-Chutt [n=ijr@dsl093-011-148.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:57-!-Chutt [n=ijr@dsl093-011-148.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #mythtv
23:59-!-iamlindoro_ [n=mcnamara@c-67-188-2-76.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #mythtv
---Logclosed Sat Aug 30 00:01:16 2008