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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-04-04

---Logopened Wed Apr 04 00:00:46 2007
---Daychanged Wed Apr 04 2007
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03:38<@DorpsGek>bark bark bark woef woef grrrrr
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03:46<blathijs>TrueBrain: wth? Did you write a plugin for that? (I want it!) Or was it you?
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07:03<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9560 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
07:03<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Codechange: add support for multiple 'base' directories for newgrf searching.
07:03<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Codechange: do not add duplicate files to the newgrf list.
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07:43<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9561 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_config.cpp settings.cpp):
07:43<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Fix (r9561): loading the newgrfs in openttd.cfg was broken.
07:43<CIA-2>OpenTTD: Note: as the 'full' path is stored of the newgrfs, the newgrfs in the old cfgs are not made default (you have to set them again).
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07:56<TrueBrain>Did you know we have a blue sky today?
07:56<TrueBrain>good :)
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08:18<@Belugas>#It's raining again HoHooo
08:18<@Belugas>#Here comes the Rain
08:18<@Belugas>#Here she comes again
08:22[~]roboboy folds out the bed and locks it into position.
08:24<@Belugas>mmmhh....that sounds so like... "ME TOO!"
08:24<@Belugas>i want to sleeeeeep
08:25<@Belugas>but since it's 9:25 am, i guess i
08:25<@Belugas>better run for coffee
08:25<Ailure>What about a highwa-...*shot*
08:30<@Belugas>#I Shot the sherrif
08:30<@Belugas>#but i didn't shout the deputy
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08:33<Ailure>I loaded a random scenario with openTTD 0.5.0
08:33<Ailure>Terra incinoto
08:33<Ailure>or whatever it's spelled
08:34<Ailure>one of the farms is emitting smoke o_O
08:34<Ailure>power station smoke
08:34<Ailure>Terra inconito
08:34<Ailure>the farm north of Hercag Novi
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08:35<Ailure>it looks like one of the silos is on fire
08:36<Wolf01>yeah, new disaster, farm silo on fire
08:37<@Belugas>#The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire
08:37<@Belugas>Ailure, can you provide me screenshot/savegame?
08:37<Ailure>You can't just load that scenario with openTTD 0.5.0?
08:38<Ailure>it comes with 0.5.0 too I belive
08:38[~]Belugas only has trunk stuff...
08:39<Ailure>alright, let me take a quick screenshot at least
08:40<SpComb>I had a forest fire ages ago in TTD
08:41<Thomas[NL]>same map near Prijedor which farm owns that farmland :s?
08:41<Ailure>[15:34] <Ailure> the farm north of Hercag Novi
08:41<Ailure>I know which dfarm you mean
08:42<Ailure>whoever made the scenario
08:42<Ailure>probably built a map
08:42<Ailure>and then removed the farm
08:42<Ailure>the farm does remove itself too
08:42<Ailure>the farmland I mean
08:42<Thomas[NL]>i notice :O
08:43<Ailure>would actually cool if we could place farmland in the scenario editor manually though :p
08:43<Ailure>or multiplayer scenario editing
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08:53<Thomas[NL]>since when had "data/" to be in front of you newGRFs in openttd.cfg?
08:53<Thomas[NL]>what revision?
09:01<Eddi|zuHause2>r9560 i guess
09:02<Maedhros>9561, really
09:04<Eddi|zuHause2>it's funny, r9561 says "Fix (r9561)" ;)
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09:17<hylje>Eddi|zuHause2: recursive fix
09:21<CIA-2>OpenTTD: maedhros * r9562 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix: When cloning, pay for the refit costs as well.
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09:39<TheMask96>damn... that will cost a lot of extra money :S
09:41<hylje>i thought it was intended to not have refit costs when cloning
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09:46<helb>Hanx: /j #test
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10:18<Maedhros>hylje: it wasn't intended, it just wasn't thought to be possible
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10:51<@peter1138>it's more of a bjarni-ism
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13:20<Digitalfox[Home]>Hum.. This change on newgrf search and directory is messing my config.. So i made a copy of my openttd directory and i'm trying in that backup to understand how to put all newgrf sets working again.. So when i start it it gives error on all newgrf saying it's not found, then if i go to newgrf menu and add some, when restarting openttd is all gone again.. At least the savegame doesn't broke...
13:20<Digitalfox[Home]>...and still finds the newgrf it needs
13:22<Digitalfox[Home]>Rubidium: Can you help me with this?? ;)
13:23<Maedhros>are you running 9560 or 9561? cause if it's 9560, upgrade ;)
13:24<Digitalfox[Home]>windows nightly
13:25<Digitalfox[Home]>My savegame that i've been playing for a week now, still finds the newgrf it needs, but and can't save the newgrf config.. It just reset's after adding it to newgrf menu or config file
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13:36<Eddi|zuHause2>use the newgrf menu on the main screen
13:36<Eddi|zuHause2>not in the savegame
13:36<Eddi|zuHause2>when you change something during a running game, that does not get saved into the .cfg
13:37<Digitalfox[Home]>Eddi|zuHause2: i know and what you saying is what i've been doing
13:38<Digitalfox[Home]>I use the newgrf menu on the main screen
13:38<Digitalfox[Home]>The is not my savegame that runs fine, is if i want to start a newgame
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15:30<dihedral>you ladies seem quiet today
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16:05<@Belugas>night all
16:08<SpComb>ngt blgs
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16:10<@DorpsGek>bark bark bark woef woef grrrrr
16:16<SpComb>no quack
16:18<TrueBrain>Maybe he is just in a bad mood
16:19<TrueBrain>clearly he is
16:19[~]TrueBrain slaps DorpsGek
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17:31<Kander>Hey - I'm trying to get a development environment working on my machine following the guidelines described on the Wiki - it's not going very well so far. Anyone willing and able to hand-hold a relative new person to C, and at least get a first compilation run to succeed?
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18:03[~]mggrant imagines if you ask direct and specific questions, you have a good chance of getting help on those things :)
18:04<mggrant>also, if you want to paste more than about 3 lines, use a paste bin (e.g. )
18:08<Kander>mggrant: Alright, here goes: 1. I've decided on using DevC++ as my IDE. Step 1 of it's instruction points me to setting up MinGW. So far so good. However, installing MinGW according to the instructions fails - if I choose the 'Candidate' installation I get 'File Read Error - can not download', after which installer quits on me.
18:09<Kander>2. The instructions on Compiling_on_DevCPlusPlus point me to a website which is now no longer exiting for DirectX libraries - how can I obtain these libraries with the referenced url being no longer there?
18:10<Kander>*existing, even
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18:10<mggrant>hmm, afraid I'm a linux person, so can't help lots on those two.. :S
18:11<Kander>For some reason I get the feeling that a lot of openTTD developers are from that camp - the docs seem highly outdated..
18:11<Kander>(I mean docs on compiling for windows.. )
18:12[~]mggrant has seen a bunch of windows talk here, so imagines it's not all bad :)
18:12<Kander>Heh, remember any names of people that might be able to help out?
18:13<mggrant>chances are you don't need an IDE too, though that can be a bit of a culture shock :)
18:13<Kander>I have heard this weird talk of programmers in the olden days using nothing but a shell and their trusty kernel - but those are tales of lore long past...
18:13[~]mggrant peers around the channel for anyone with a devC++ clue
18:13<mggrant>hehe, make me feel creaky now ;)
18:14<Kander>Even just MingW clue would be appreciated..
18:14[~]mggrant did install cygwin on a windows box only a few months ago, but isn't sure that counts ;)
18:15<Kander>Basically at the moment anything that can get this [expletive] thing to compile would be appreciated..
18:15[~]mggrant eyes the linux install cd
18:16<Kander>I've got this dinky Ubuntu cd thingy a geekish friend gave me some time ago.. :) I've been eyeing it a bit suspiciously for some time now..
18:17<Kander>Seriously, I did actually install it on a secondary machine some time ago. I'll boot it up and see if I can get anything working there, if you'd be able to help me get something up and running there?
18:18<+glx>mingw+msys is enough
18:18<Kander>glx: That's awesome to hear..
18:18<+glx>then you just need to get zlib, png and freetype
18:18<Kander>Any hints/guides on how to proceed? The docs on the Wiki only seem to confuse me, instead of explaining what to do (considering half of the steps I follow end up in an error message)
18:19<+glx>the easy way is to use VC express 2005 :)
18:20<Kander>Not going to walk that path.. I've tried installing some of the Express Visual Studio products some time ago... took me a reinstall to get my system somewhat clean again.
18:20[~]PandaMojo <3s his Visual Stduio
18:21<+glx>Kander: start with
18:21<Kander>Only way I'll install VS from now on is in a nice isolated VMware session
18:21<Kander>GLX: That's what I was looking at.
18:21<+glx>(you can skip directx step as it's not really needed)
18:22<Kander>The first step immediately had me frustrated: "On the install, select Candidate, then select the Minimal install plus the g++ compiler." - it wouldn't install. Also, the ini file linked to wasn't a zip, so I was unsure if I had the right thing.. :/
18:23<+glx>I use stable version (not candidate)
18:23<Kander>Alright - I'll do that then (was already wondering why the docs pointed to a candidate release.. but figured it would know best)
18:24<+glx>candidate has gcc 3.4.5, stable is gcc 3.4.2
18:24<Kander>Benefit of which being..?
18:25<+glx>less bugs I think :)
18:25<Kander>I hope so...
18:25<+glx>anyway gcc 3.4.x is old
18:25<Kander>:/ So what should I use instead?
18:26<+glx>use stable
18:26<+glx>works well for me
18:26<Kander>It's downloading and installing now
18:28<Kander>Done. Yay!
18:28<mggrant>edit the wiki while you're at it too :)
18:29<+glx>hmm I must update mingw-runtime and win32-api it seems (new version available)
18:29<Kander>mggrant: I'm keeping notes of what I'm doing, and will certainly write up new docs for the wiki when done.
18:30<mggrant>good luck and goodnight :)
18:31[~]Kander chuckles at the MSYS normalizing script 'Oh joy - you do not have make.exe. Keep it that way'. Nerds are funny.
18:33<+glx>it's just because there's also mingw32-make and this one is bad
18:33<Kander>Alright - good to know. I'm reading the MSYS_WELCOME docs now, trying to make sense of it..
18:35<Kander>What's an fstab record? :/
18:36<+glx>that's for mount
18:38<Kander>Here's another dumb question: In Setting up for Dev-C++ it said we won't be using SVN. First step of that procedure was 'Go to compiling for MinGW and follow the setup steps there, then come back'. MinGW uses SVN in it's last step... should I check out the latest version from the repository, or just build from source the latest RC? (which is easier for beginners?)
18:41<+glx>hmm you'll need freetype-2.1.9-mingwPORT too
18:41<Kander>Where do I get that?
18:42<Kander>(and more importantly: where do I need to place it after I've snatched it from the net?)
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18:43<+glx>same as wget, zlib and pnglib
18:43<Kander>Haven't gotten around to those yet...
18:44<Kander>Do I need wget or wget mingwport? :/ (so many choices...)
18:45<+glx>migwport (follow the wiki :))
18:46<Kander>Ah, right - thought your instructions were diverging from the wiki... you just skipped ahead a bit :)
18:48<+glx>I just added one step :)
18:50<Kander>When this is all done, I'm definitely going to uninstall everything tomorrow and begin from scratch again - making sure I've got it all covered and then put together a coherent set of instructions for on the Wiki.
18:51<+glx>good idea :)
18:53<Kander>Here's another: It says I should copy the files from the SVN zip to /usr/share... I figured out after some poking around that the unix paths mentioned map to my msys installation directory.. so far so good. However, usr is missing from there. Where can I find my usr/share dir? :/
18:53<Kander>Err. /usr/local even.. my bad.
18:56<+glx>check /etc/fstab (x:\msys\1.0\etc\fstab)
18:57<Kander>All it says is one single line: f:/local/mingw /mingw (f:\local\mingw\ is where I installed mingw)
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19:06<Kander>Ok, is it supposed to complain that the dir I am trying to mkdir (mkdir /usr/src ) already exists, on each of the three libraries I am installing? :/ If so, who figured it'd be a good idea to include the mkdir in the commands for each of the libs?
19:09<+glx>the complain seems logical to me :)
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19:10<Kander>I thought so too, but being as unfamiliar with this whole unix-syntax as I am, it might as well be that the mkdirs should end in various places and I am doing something terribly wrong ^_^ It's all so [expletive] confusing sometimes. [subject rests head on hands and mutters inexplicably for several minutes before resuming installing]
19:15<Kander>Ok. Hurray - managed to get all four libraries installed. I'm skipping DirectX for now.. let's first get something working, then add fancy stuff like music and all that.
19:15<+glx>music works without directX :)
19:15<Kander>Even better :)
19:16<Kander>Is the freetype mingwport sh script supposed to give lots of warnings, by the way? It seemed to work fine, but it did seem a bit worrying to me..
19:16<Kander>(lots of 'dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules' warnings.. no idea what it means :) )
19:16<+glx>I never used mingwport (I download source the configure && make && make install usually)
19:17<+glx>don't worry about these warnings :)
19:17<Kander>Is that more complicated then what I am doing right now?
19:17<Kander>Heh, alright. Not worrying and being happy. 'cause every little train (and bus and plane and boat) is gonna be alright...
19:20<Kander>Hmm. Another bump on the road: I run the "get latest" script, it tells me it's updating to latest revision and immediately after that 'Done.' (seems suspicious, considering how verbose other installing and updates scripts have been so far..). After that it tells me to CD into the openttd source directory.. which does not exist. Wasn't the getlatest script supposed to take care of that?
19:27[~]Kander does his happy dance. It's compiling, it's compiling! *bounces up and down*
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19:36<Kander>Ok. It compiled. But it won't run. *sigh*
19:36<+glx>what does it say?
19:36<Kander>Nothing - the standard crash thingy from MS (do you want to send a report to MS?)
19:37<+glx>hmm bad
19:37<Kander>Want the result of my compilation (the textual output) in a pastebin?
19:37<+glx>why not :)
19:38<Kander>Is there an easy way to copy-paste from the MINGW32 window? :/
19:39<+glx>dunno, I use all of this from cmd
19:42<Kander>One thing I do notice is that the directory in which it was built is very.. empty, compared to the normal (pre-compiled) openttd directory. Is that a queue for problems?
19:44<+glx>what is in this dir?
19:45<Kander>Just the graphics files, some subdirectories (data, lang, save, scenaroio) and openttd.exe (the dir I am looking at is f:\local\msys\home\openttd\build\ )
19:45<Kander>(graphics files = the 3 icon images)
19:46<Kander>I know I have to copy the .grf and .cat file from my original TTD to the data dir.
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20:45<HMage>where can I get a list of patch setting names for console?
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23:57<DaleStan>HMage: The source code?
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23:58<HMage>DaleStan: yup, the problem got solved by looking at the source code. I wonder what would happen if someone else wasn't that lucky enough to know how to read source code (ie typical sysadmin).
23:59<DaleStan>This is why documentation was invented.
---Logclosed Thu Apr 05 00:00:42 2007