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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-04-05

---Logopened Thu Apr 05 00:00:42 2007
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00:09<HMage>was that documented?
00:11<DaleStan>I dunno. I've basically stopped expecting any but the most user-obvious parts of Open to be documented.
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00:17<HMage>ok
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02:49<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9563 /trunk/ (23 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: Add more finer control to transparency options, including a new toolbar, accessible from the map menu or Ctrl X. Patch by Wolf01.
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03:15<@peter1138>hmm, -more :p
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03:40<Maedhros>/home/jc/src/openttd-svn/src/main_gui.cpp:40:30: error: transparency_gui.h: No such file or directory
03:40<Maedhros>eek
03:53|-|Wolf01 [~wolf01@host231-235-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
03:53<Wolf01>hello
03:54[~]ThePizzaKing has the same problem as Maedhros
03:54<@peter1138>hello
03:54<@peter1138>hmm
03:54<@peter1138>did i not add it? :P
03:54<@peter1138>bugger
03:54<@peter1138>i'll fix
03:59<valhallasw>what does transparency add? I can't find anything on the forums about it :P
04:00<valhallasw>Or I am midding it, very well possible
04:00<Wolf01>it add only a gui... and split all the things so you are able to make transparent only houses to see stations, bridges, industries etc
04:01<Maedhros>hmm, is it not possible for station signs to be transparent all the time now?
04:01<Wolf01>yes
04:01<Wolf01>is not toggled with the x key
04:01<Maedhros>it is here...
04:02<Wolf01>but you can toggle it easily with ctrl+1
04:02<@peter1138>bah, pc's too slow
04:03<@peter1138>Maedhros: just needs to be skipped in main_gui.cpp
04:03<@peter1138>which i'll sort out
04:03<Maedhros>peter1138: cool
04:05<@peter1138>gah, takes *ages* to compile
04:06<boekabart_>buy faster pc :)
04:06<boekabart_>or develop faster compiler, of course :D
04:07<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9564 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Fix (r9563): When adding files remember to add them...
04:08<ThePizzaKing>yay, works fine now
04:08[~]ThePizzaKing congratulates peter1138
04:09<Maedhros>:)
04:10<@peter1138>Maedhros: http://fuzzle.org/o/keep_signs.diff
04:10<@peter1138>bit ugly :/
04:10<Wolf01>i hope the version you applied was the last one, i tried to document it very better with Belugas yesterday evening
04:10<@peter1138>Wolf01: i used the version on the bug tracker
04:11<@peter1138>so, never mind
04:11<Wolf01>ehm...
04:11<Wolf01>i think that something changed since that version
04:12<Wolf01>something that makes you unhappy... i removed the transparency at purchased land yesterday :P
04:12<@peter1138>that was already removed
04:13<@peter1138>besides, i didn't apply the patch anyway
04:13<@peter1138>i went through it manually
04:13<@peter1138>hence it uses HASBIT()
04:14<Wolf01>http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/patches/transparency_options_gui_9561_with_invisible_houses.diff give a look at this, don't bother of half-documented functions, i'm working on it
04:14<@peter1138>added extra param,s heh
04:15<Wolf01>and optimized the patch very much
04:16<@peter1138>sort of good
04:16<@peter1138>but inconsistent. hmm.
04:18<@peter1138>well
04:18<@peter1138>i can revert what i've done if you want
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04:19<Wolf01>maybe if you can wait this evening, or if you can help me to finish to document the AddSortableSprite() function, is better
04:19<@peter1138>here's a tip though
04:19<@peter1138>DO_ is "Display Options"
04:20<@peter1138>so i used TO_ instead of DO_TRANS
04:20<Wolf01>yes, right
04:22<@peter1138>your declaration and definition of AddSortableSpriteToDraw() are different
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04:44<Wolf01>ok, this should be the very latest, with your suggestion: http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/patches/transparency_options_gui_9561_with_invisible_houses.diff
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05:07<l_Blue_l>hi is there any openTTD forum moderators on atm?
05:08<@peter1138>are
05:09<l_Blue_l>can the Diagonal demolish / level land patch thread here http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31300&start=20 please be locked as if has gone off topic
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05:09<@peter1138>heh
05:10<l_Blue_l>on the openTTD forum i would like that thread lock
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05:14<l_Blue_l>did you understand that
05:16<Kander>Morning (or whatever it is in everyone's timezone)
05:16<TrueBrain>howdie Kander
05:16<Kander>Hehe, yet another variation on TrueLight, Patric?
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05:18<TrueBrain>Kander: not a variation :)
05:18<blathijs>l_Blue_l: We understood, but we're no moderators (at least I am not)
05:18<blathijs>TrueBrain: Perhaps you can help l_Blue_l ?
05:19<TrueBrain>blathijs: possible
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05:19<Kander>Last night I have been trying to get OpenTTD to compile for the first time in a long, long time - I tried to follow the steps outlined on the Wiki for compiling using MinGW and failed miserably. Another user, who's name sadly seems to elude my thoughts for now, helped me to get it at least into a somewhat succesful compile run, but now the executable spawned by it crashes immediately upon...
05:19<Kander>...starting. Do you guys have time to point me in the right direction?
05:20<TrueBrain>OS?
05:20<Kander>WinXP, MCE
05:20<Kander>(32 bits edition - call me oldfashioned)
05:20<TrueBrain>lol, like the 64bit edition is that good :s Brrrr
05:21<TrueBrain>how does it crash?
05:21<Kander>Well, at work it seems to work fine. But then again I don't do anything more fancy then word and notepad.
05:21<Kander>Standard 'report to microsoft' screen.. not sure how to explain it otherwise? As soon as I start the executable.
05:22<TrueBrain>your best chance is to wait for glx
05:22<Kander>Glx.. that's it :) He was the guy who helped me last night.
05:23<Kander>Do you happen to know what timezone he is in?
05:23<TrueBrain>he is the mingw guru :)
05:23<TrueBrain>he will be online in 2 hours
05:23<TrueBrain>mostly exactly 14:30 he joins
05:23<Kander>Sounds like a very consistent man :)
05:23<TrueBrain>yesterday it was 14:48
05:23<TrueBrain>so it can be a bit later :)
05:23<Kander>Eeek! Deviation!
05:24<TrueBrain>l_Blue_l: topic locked
05:24<l_Blue_l>Thanks
05:24<Kander>Alright, I'll wait for him then :) In the meanwhile I'll just toss my MinGW installation away and install it all from scratch.. things were messy, to say the least, last night.
05:24<TrueBrain>hehe
05:25<TrueBrain>l_Blue_l: I hope I win an award with the quote: gone offtopic :p (as it is the biggest understatement ever I believe)
05:28<l_Blue_l>true. At best only 4 comtribute to the topic. It such a let down each time i read the topic and some peoples comments are so rude / stupid i just couldnt stand it anymore
05:30<TrueBrain>I do hope it doesn't spoil your fun in coding...
05:31<Ailure>dadada
05:31<TrueBrain>tadadadadadadada tadadadadadada BATMAN!
05:31<@DorpsGek>oh for the love of God....
05:32<l_Blue_l>TrueBrain: omg no i love it it will take alot more then that to scare me away.
05:32<TrueBrain>l_Blue_l: good :)
05:34<l_Blue_l>TrueBrain: i havent yet been able to finnish a single patch of mine ..... maybe this time i can finnish this one (fix up the code so it can get included into the trunk)
05:34<TrueBrain>Clean it up, post it at bugs.openttd.org :)
05:34<Ailure>just don't go bitch when it dosen't get included though
05:34<Ailure><<
05:34<Ailure>heh
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05:35<@peter1138>of course, me posting a query in the original thread and not getting a reply counts as "no interest" according to he who should know better
05:35<l_Blue_l>ok ha no i wont bitch .... i fully understand the reason why there are rules for things getting included or not
05:36[~]TrueBrain likes l_Blue_l
05:36[~]TrueBrain starts to wonder about Ailure :p
05:36<Ailure>:)
05:36<Ailure>Good good
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05:36<Ailure>eh well some people take critique as "OMG YOU STABBED MY SOUL" instead of "Ok, I fix this"
05:36<@peter1138>yeah, well
05:37<@peter1138>when i *do* add someone's patch it turns out they didn't post the latest version :P
05:37<@peter1138>so there's no getting it right
05:37<TrueBrain>Ailure: and it seems to be rather hard for people to follow a coding style: IT AINT MY STYLE SO WHY SHOULD I FOLLOW IT?! :) You got to love users :)
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05:38<Ailure>the OTTD style looks good for me :P
05:38<Kander>Style leads to order, order leads to peace, peace leads to the DARK SIDE!
05:38<Ailure>Although I only looked through it hastily
05:38<Ailure>as I hadn't done any patch, so far
05:38<TrueBrain>Kander: welcome to the dark side :)
05:38<@Rubidium>and ofcourse: "but the coding style isn't consistent in the code"
05:38<Kander>:)
05:39<Ailure>Mostly becuse I have no idea where to start
05:39<Ailure>:p
05:39<Kander>Would a patch that does nothing but clean up the coding style in existing parts of the code be considered for inclusion??
05:40<@Rubidium>I really hope so ;)
05:40<TrueBrain>Kander: it happens a lot lately :)
05:40<TrueBrain>doxygen thingies too
05:41<Kander>That's good to hear :)
05:41<TrueBrain>they aren't that dark in here yet :p
05:42<Ailure>though then
05:43<Ailure>only thing that annoys me with openTTD at the moment
05:43<Ailure>is the 8 company limit
05:43<TrueBrain>which is rather a tricky one
05:43<Ailure>from what I been able to gain, yeah.
05:43<TrueBrain>most users suggest changing it to 16, which isn't a solution
05:43<TrueBrain>it needs to be made dynamic
05:43<TrueBrain>which is possible for most parts, but not the GUI
05:43<TrueBrain>which is being worked on to make that possible :)
05:44<Kander>I know GLX would be able to answer with more authority, but is there a practical reason not to use the latest/greatest version of every compile tool, instead of what is linked to in the compile-instructions on the Wiki?
05:44<@Rubidium>b0rkedness of binaries?
05:44<Ailure>Well, it would make long and huge games even more epic
05:45<TrueBrain>Kander: you can use the latest version of most things, just some are known to be broken. The versions used on the wiki are tested and therefor known to work :)
05:45<Ailure>I hate deleting companies whem running a server
05:45<Ailure>I yet have to break the player limit though, but been close to
05:46<Kander>Is there any chance of the AI being improved upon? I read in the changelog that it has recently been dumbed down even further, in favor of performance (is such a thing even possible, I wonder??)
05:46<Ailure>Some players simple just play at diffrent names
05:46<Ailure>Kander: Check out the noAi branch
05:46<Ailure>:)
05:46<TrueBrain>Kander: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/AI:Main_Page
05:46<Ailure>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=30933
05:46<Ailure>eh damn you brain
05:47<Kander>Wha! Never found that section of the Wiki
05:47[~]Kander does a happy dance.
05:47<Ailure>well it's something quite recent
05:47<TrueBrain>Kander: it is relative new
05:47<TrueBrain>:p
05:47[~]peter1138 yawns
05:47<@peter1138>so i do need a new pc
05:48<TrueBrain>peter1138: you talk about that for, what, 2 months now? :)
05:48<@peter1138>yes
05:48<TrueBrain>so you are waiting for donations or something? :)
05:48<@peter1138>yes
05:48<@peter1138>finally you get the hint
05:48<@peter1138>;p
05:48<TrueBrain>let me wire 1 eurocent to your account :p
05:48[~]Kander tosses Peter a blank check. Uncovered, of course.
05:49<TrueBrain>at least I send you something :p
05:49<TrueBrain>lunch!
05:49<Ailure>just took out mine from the microwave
05:49<Ailure>:p
05:49<Kander>Seriously: Would you have any use for a AthlonXP 1700+ which has been gathering dust for the past few months?
05:49<Ailure>quick lunch before next lecture starts
05:49<Ailure>I would
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05:50<Ailure>even if I have a 64bit dual core processor ;)
05:50<Kander>Lol, use it as a secondary machine? :P
05:50<Ailure>heh
05:51<Ailure>I dunno what I would use it for
05:51<Ailure>I mean, a dual core processor with two monitors. Now if I could run two OS's at the same time ;)
05:51<Ailure>(virtual machines dosen't count :P)
05:51<Kander>Hmmm... you could run a virtualized session on the second monitor ::... never mind
05:52<@peter1138>Kander: not really
05:52<@peter1138>Kander: i have a 2000+, but my boards too old to run it at full speed
05:52<@peter1138>plus it's PC133 memory, heh
05:53<Kander>:) The board I have as well.. but it's an Asrock so might not make you happy.
05:53<Ailure>I rarely use my CPU to it's fullest
05:53<Ailure>or same with GPU :)
05:53<Ailure>xD
05:54<Ailure>All I really required when getting a new computer was 2 GB memory
05:54<Ailure>since the programs I run is memory h
05:54<Ailure>heavy
05:54<Kander>Hmm, what kind of programs are they? (I've got the Electric Sheep screensaver running in a window to burn up any spare CPU cycles.. works like a charm!)
05:55<@peter1138>i'm still stuck between AM2 or 775...
05:55<Ailure>D:
05:55<Ailure>Netbean
05:55<Ailure>One of the better java SDK's, but eats memory like there was no tomorrow
05:55<MiHaMiX>Ailure: you meant Netbeans? :)
05:55<Kander>Java? *shudders* Not my thing...
05:55<Ailure>eh
05:55<Ailure>IDE's
05:55<Ailure>not SDK's
05:55<Ailure>asdfdsf
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05:55<Ailure>There's a huge diffrence between a SDK and IDE
05:55<Ailure>-.-
05:56<Kander>Yep...
05:56<MiHaMiX>Ailure: at me, netbeans not used to eat more than 80mb
05:56<Ailure>Java isn't slow though
05:56<Kander>Peter: My new machine's AM2 and been happy with it. Very easy installation, even with extra fan and all.. but it all depends on what your needs are.
05:56<Ailure>java VM can be a bit slow to start
05:56<Ailure>but when you get it started, it usually runs quite smoothly
05:57<Kander>My regards of Java have been totally demolished by a single poor teacher.. taught all the wrong habits.. :/
05:58<Ailure>programming wise, only annoying thing is that it can be a bit nazi about some things that is possible (but potentionable dangerous) on other languages
05:58<valhallasw>eclipse is eating up 200M atm :(
05:58<MiHaMiX>valhallasw: yeah, that's why i dislike eclipse :)
05:58<Kander>Any of you ever used the BlueJ IDE?
05:59<valhallasw>but netbeans somehow seems slower
05:59<Ailure>ah
05:59<Ailure>Netbeans take less memory than eclipse then
05:59<valhallasw>and c++ is freaking me out atm
05:59<MiHaMiX>i have 2 fav java ide: netbeans and intellijIdea
05:59<MiHaMiX>though the latter is not free
06:00<Ailure>that some things are done automtically done in netbeans
06:00<Ailure>is very nice
06:00<Ailure>although is probably in other IDE's
06:00<Ailure>I really hadn't compared them :p
06:00<MiHaMiX>ok, end of lunchtime folks.. bye :)
06:01<Kander>Are there still people who prefer programming in plain ol' notepad (or other non-graphical editors) ?
06:01<Kander>Ciao MiHaMiX
06:01<Ailure>ewww notepad
06:01<MiHaMiX>Kander: I'm used to use gvim
06:01<MiHaMiX>Kander: available from http://www.vim.org/
06:01<valhallasw>vi \\o
06:01<MiHaMiX>Kander: it's based on the good old vi :)
06:01<Kander>I've seen and heard about vi(m)...
06:01<Ailure>lack of colouring annoys me
06:01<valhallasw>and sometimes mcedit
06:01<Ailure>with notepad
06:01<Kander>not sure if I could get myself trained in using it.. one time I tried it I ran away screaming in panic
06:01<MiHaMiX>valhallasw: mcedit sucks :)
06:02<MiHaMiX>Kander: :D
06:02<valhallasw>MiHaMiX: coloring and edit-paste *inside* mcedit is great
06:02<Kander>Couldn't even close it properly...
06:02<valhallasw>just copy-pasting outside it is a disaster
06:02<valhallasw>:wq or :q! ?
06:02<MiHaMiX>valhallasw: hmm, that's ok, but i still dislike the editor features :)
06:02<Kander>valhallasw: Point proven.
06:02<valhallasw>better than joe
06:02<MiHaMiX>ok, really bye :)
06:03<valhallasw>^kx is less logical for write-quit than :wq
06:03<valhallasw>imo
06:03<Kander>Clicking the little X button, then pressing 'Save' is more logical for write-quit then :wq... imho.
06:06<valhallasw>I see no
06:06<valhallasw>'x' button witout gui
06:07<Kander>:) Which brings us to the overarcing prompt vs gui discussion?
06:07<TrueBrain>now that was a nice lunch
06:07<Kander>wb tl
06:08<valhallasw>hey, you started about 'non-graphical editors'
06:08<valhallasw>and notepad isnt one btw
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06:09<Kander>True, true..
06:09<Ailure>VI users are elitists?
06:09<Ailure>:o
06:10<valhallasw>what the ... is happening :{
06:10<Kander>Well, they've got all reason to be if they managed to figure out it's syntax.
06:11<valhallasw>is there any reason why the 19th member (index 18) of an int array should act strangely?
06:13<@Rubidium>without context I wouldn't know
06:13<Kander>define 'strangely' ?
06:13<valhallasw>acting like it doesn't keep it's value
06:13<valhallasw>is set to 0, jumps to 2293196, 2292860, 2292524 etc
06:13<@Rubidium>buffer over/underflows!
06:14<valhallasw>thought of that
06:14<valhallasw>but then why does the 20th member (index 19) work perfectly fine?
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06:15<@Rubidium>no idea, depends highly on the context
06:15<valhallasw>http://arctus.nl/websvn/listing.php?repname=uni&path=%2Falgo%2Fpr2%2F
06:16<valhallasw>it's a mess atm, sorry for that (because of the debugging etc ;))
06:16<TrueBrain>we shouldn't be helping you with your homework :p
06:16<valhallasw>orly :P
06:17<valhallasw>what about
06:17<valhallasw>the algorithm works perfectly fine
06:17<valhallasw>but c++ is just a fscking stupid language that acts completely weird sometimes
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06:17<valhallasw>python O+
06:18<TrueBrain>lol, you do shit in tex, not bad :p
06:18<valhallasw>:P
06:18<TrueBrain>pr2 is for PM?
06:18<valhallasw>no, algoritmiek
06:18<TrueBrain>ah, that explains :)
06:19<valhallasw>not like I care about the ECTS
06:19<valhallasw>as they don't really count for anything :P
06:19<TrueBrain>you need them :)
06:19<valhallasw>CS ects don't count for physics I'm afraid ;)
06:20<TrueBrain>push them to your second year, you need some variation courses
06:20<valhallasw>algo is not one of the allowed ones ;)
06:20<TrueBrain>then you should just enjoy it :p
06:21<valhallasw>I'm still wondering who thought it should be 7 ects
06:22<valhallasw>meh, I'll just redesign without the class and see what happens :P
06:22<TrueBrain>it isn't the fastest way to do what you do :p
06:23<valhallasw>obviously
06:23<valhallasw>but it was the fastest way to code it :P
06:24<TrueBrain>you fucked up 'm' and 'n', so it looks
06:24<TrueBrain>'m' sometimes is your width, sometimes your height
06:24<TrueBrain>return this->array + (this->m)*row; <- here it is your width
06:24<valhallasw>no
06:24<TrueBrain>if ( x < 0 || x >= array.n || y < 0 || y >= array.m || array[x][y] != 0 ) <- here is it your height
06:24<valhallasw>er
06:24<valhallasw>wait
06:24<valhallasw>that's pretty stupid
06:24<TrueBrain>change the this->m to this->n in the first, and it most likely doesn't overflow :p
06:25<TrueBrain>short to say: USE BETTER NAMING!
06:25<TrueBrain>rename 'm' to height, and 'n' to width
06:25<valhallasw>don't change n and m while coding :p
06:25<TrueBrain>and you would never made this mistake
06:25<valhallasw>sais the ottd devver that uses *st *t *etc ;)
06:25<TrueBrain>which can't be confused really :)
06:25<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: that if looks ok to me
06:26<TrueBrain>Rubidium: the if is okay, but 'm' has an other function in the first copy/paste then in the second :)
06:26<valhallasw>it should be height, but I changed the m and n in the constructor
06:26<@Rubidium>no
06:26<TrueBrain>Rubidium: yes :p
06:26<TrueBrain>haha :)
06:26<@Rubidium>this->m * x + y (where y = 0 .. this->m - 1)
06:26<TrueBrain>valhallasw: you can see that indeed :)
06:26<valhallasw>erm
06:26<valhallasw>x/n = height
06:26<valhallasw>m = width
06:27<TrueBrain>'m' is height according to backtrace.cpp :p
06:27<valhallasw>no
06:27<valhallasw>x/n = height, y/m = width
06:27<valhallasw>y >= array.m <-- see
06:28<TrueBrain>'y' defines height, not? :)
06:28<valhallasw>no
06:28<TrueBrain>haha, now that is confusing :p
06:28<valhallasw>not really
06:28<valhallasw>(3,1) in an array is 4th row 2nd column
06:29<valhallasw>(3,1) most logically is x=3 y=1
06:29<valhallasw>so x=height y=width
06:29<TrueBrain>haha, nice try, but nah, still not logic :)
06:29<TrueBrain>doesn't matter, as long as you udnerstand it
06:30<valhallasw>13:29 < TrueBrain> doesn't matter, as long as it works and jlaros understands it <-- fix
06:30<TrueBrain>hehe, good enough for me :p
06:31<TrueBrain>anyway, back to OpenTTD :p
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06:44<Scarzzurs>Lo :-)
06:44<Scarzzurs>I've made a suggestion in the suggestion forum, but i fear that i might have been to fast to change website as the post isn't there. Should i repost or is there some kind of delay on posts?
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06:49<@peter1138>bingbong
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07:41[~]Kander wonders if GLX will show up...
07:43<TrueBrain>hehe :)
07:43<TrueBrain>as long as I know him, he never missed a day :)
07:44<Kander>Alright *sits patiently in his corner, and continues fiddling with MinGW..*
07:45<TrueBrain>I really hope mingw isn't a synonym for something you do in the corner
07:46[~]Kander grins.. nice noe
07:46<Kander>*one, even
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07:49<Kander>Is there a functional difference between openttd.org and openttd.com?
07:49<TrueBrain>nope
07:49<Kander>Good
07:49<TrueBrain>.com is 100% alias of .org
07:49<TrueBrain>and we advise everyone to use .org
07:49<Kander>Redirects at the DNS level?
07:50<TrueBrain>no redirect, it is really an alias
07:50<Kander>Cool
07:50<TrueBrain>on http, mail, svn and all levels :)
07:51<Kander>Great - was just wondering, since the get latest openttd.sh script points to .com while I was only used to seeing .org
07:51<TrueBrain>it should use .org :p
07:52<Kander>Then write a new one - and while you're at it, check why it didn't work for me :P
07:53<Kander>Argh. I keep getting the same error message.. and know I must be doing something wrong, but can't seem to figure out what it is..
07:54<@Belugas>hello
07:54<Kander>Helo Belugas
08:00<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9565 /trunk/src/ (console_cmds.cpp settings.cpp settings.h): -Feature: Add list_patches console command. This shows all patches along with their current values. Based on patch by madman2003/GrimRC.
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08:34<Scarzzurs>[13:44] <Scarzzurs> Lo :-)
08:34<Scarzzurs>[13:45] <Scarzzurs> I've made a suggestion in the suggestion forum, but i fear that i might have been to fast to change website as the post isn't there. Should i repost or is there some kind of delay on posts?
08:38<@Belugas>or maybe program it yourself ? :P
08:38<@Belugas>you should try to refresh or repost
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13:07<@Belugas>oups... missed my lunch time by far...
13:08<@Belugas>damn ottd code during work hours :P
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13:18<MUcht>http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/2007/04/05/passenger-destinations-we-need-them/ :-)
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14:13<UndernotBuilder>Me can't wait for newcargos/newindustries :P
14:13[~]Belugas thinks UndernotBuilder will have to wait for still a long time :S
14:14[~]Belugas is sorry for the pain UndernotBuilder will endure
14:14<Noldo>tough luck
14:14<UndernotBuilder>:(
14:14<bubersson>logs!
14:14<@Belugas>if you want to help, give me the resolver for industry and industry tile!
14:14<bubersson>!logs
14:15<@Belugas>before it do it myself :S
14:15<Noldo>resolver?
14:15<bubersson>logging is not working anymore??
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14:16<Noldo>bubersson: the bottish person is missing
14:16<bubersson>hm... :) ... ok
14:16<UndernotBuilder>maybe I need a book for learning C for lazy people? :)
14:19<@Belugas>maybe :)
14:20<@Belugas>would be a bit more usefull if it was C++, but we're niot fully C++ yet...
14:20<@Belugas>by far ;)
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14:21<Noldo>Belugas: what do you mean by a resolver?
14:24<@Belugas>look in newgrf_town.cpp
14:24<@Belugas>function TownGetVariable
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14:24<@Belugas>this is a part of the resolver for houses
14:25<@Belugas>same have to be done for indstries
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14:25<@Belugas>base on http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Industries
14:25<@Belugas>and of course
14:25<@Belugas>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2IndustryTiles
14:30<@Belugas>right now, i'm working on decoupling industry_gui.cpp and smallmap_gui.cpp form hardcoded colors/strings guis and use the values stored in the industry specs
14:30<@Belugas>lots of fun
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14:37<DebolazX>Anybody got any good books to recommend?
14:38[~]DebolazX is on a shopping spree.
14:38<DebolazX>Of the technical kind.
14:40<@Belugas>on what?
14:42<DebolazX>On anything.
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14:51<Ailure[apt]>hmm
14:51<Ailure[apt]>using tightVNC instead of actually installing a own IRC client is... intresting :)
14:52<@Belugas>DebolazX, go to a library, close your eyes, and pick any book, until it is a technical one ;)
14:53<DebolazX>I could be using that time to make an MMORPG instead. :-P
14:54<Noldo>Belugas: I supose you have the structure that is goint to contain the industry information somewhere?
14:54<@Rubidium>DebolazX: "Implementing NewGRF for OTTD for dummies"?
14:55<DebolazX>:-)
14:57<@Belugas>well... yes and no, Noldo. Each GetxVariable will be on its own file, wioth the same signature
14:57<@Belugas>all the cases will have to address the requirement
14:57<@Belugas>that each variable needs
14:58<@Belugas>then, it will be a matter of gathering that stuff in a stuff like
14:58<@Belugas>newgrf_house.cpp:357
14:59<Noldo>so the data is stored there somewhere, but it needs to have a interface like that one?
14:59<@Belugas>the data is everywhere in the game
15:00<@Belugas>it's just that each resolver will have to provide the data that is required
15:01<@Belugas>exemple : Animation stage of nearby tiles (63)
15:01<@Belugas>right now, thereis no anumation stage for industries
15:01<@Belugas>means i have to implrment that with a new tile assignment
15:02<@Belugas>and a new map accessor for it
15:02<@Belugas>exemple
15:02<@Belugas>Distance of nearest industry with given type (64)
15:02<Digitalfox[Home]>Bjarni: Are you thinking of adding reffitable cargo options to Autoreplace?? For example with buses of George V4, most of buses have some reffitable cargo, that makes them have more passangers and right now i have to make it all manually.. I love Autoreplace so it would be great if you or other dev could implement this :)
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15:02<@Belugas>haa... easier... this one is just a matter of calling the right function in ottd to get the answer
15:02<@Belugas>stuff like that...
15:03<@Belugas>tons of stuff to collect, tons of pure fun and joy
15:03<Noldo>is there going to be a function lice uint32 IndustryGetVariable(byre variable,/*stuff*/, Industry *i) ?
15:03<Noldo>*like
15:03<@Belugas>exactly
15:03<@Belugas>and for tile too
15:04<Noldo>which part of the game needs that interface?
15:04<@Belugas>newindustries
15:05<Noldo>and it has to use those odd variable addresses/nubmers ?
15:05<Noldo>god I'm tired
15:06<@peter1138>brrrr
15:06<@peter1138>cold
15:07<@peter1138>yeah
15:07<@peter1138>could enumify them.. heh
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15:12<Noldo>so a guestion like bool CanDeleteHouse(TileIndex tile)
15:13<Noldo>is first translated to the language that the newhouses language and then there is very interesting structure that finds the infromation from everywhere in the game
15:14<@peter1138>just be thankful it's changed from the original stuff
15:14<@peter1138>which assumed that only vehicles existed
15:17<@Belugas>mmh....
15:17<@Belugas>MaybeNewIndustry is fucked up
15:18<@Belugas>Noldo, it's a bit like that yeah
15:18<@Belugas>peter1138, enumify??
15:18<@Belugas>freaks me a bit
15:19<@Belugas>i thimk it is easier using plain numbers
15:19<@Belugas>no?
15:19<Noldo>I agree
15:20<Noldo>could typecast be used to make sure it won't mix with other byte's or is that against coding policy
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15:22<@Belugas>anything that serves the Grand Purpose is good
15:22<@Belugas>apart from goto... i hate gotos
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15:23<Noldo>:)
15:24<@peter1138>heh
15:24<@peter1138>was joking
15:24[~]peter1138 watches Play
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15:29<Maedhros>Belugas: how far have you got with the industry resolvers?
15:29<Noldo>I really don't understand why the varibles have those address numbers instead of meaningfull names or accessors that have meaningfull names
15:30<@Belugas>Maedhros : like... 0% ;)
15:30<Maedhros>Noldo: because that's how the ttdpatch guys wrote the spec ;)
15:30<@Belugas>Noldo : don't forget that the spec comes from the ttdpacth
15:31<@Belugas>:)
15:31<Maedhros>Belugas: i see :)
15:31<Noldo>but isn't the spec for storing the data?
15:31<@Belugas>i started to take a deep look at it though
15:31<DaleStan>Noldo: Because meaningful names take too long for computers to process.
15:31<@Belugas>indeed :)
15:31<hylje>yay for preprocessing
15:31<@peter1138>no
15:32<@Belugas>there is one aspect of the spce that really got me worried though.. the part that askes for closest distance from dryland/sea tile
15:32<@Belugas>looks like quite cpu intensive
15:32<hylje>what context
15:32<hylje>as in a vehicle?
15:32<DaleStan>Industry tiles.
15:33<hylje>ah
15:34<@Belugas>i really do think we should have some sort of structure that could tell us that land starts ROUGHLY at x,y on four corners
15:34<hylje>shouldnt be too bad unless it involves updating every industry tile when someone terraforms
15:37<DaleStan>Actually, scratch that. It's industries, not industry tiles, and it's only accessible in callback 28.
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15:38<hylje>callback 28?
15:38<DaleStan>So CPU time required shouldn't be a major issue, since CB 28 is only called when attempting to construct an industry.
15:38<MeusH>hello
15:38<MeusH>Congrats Wolf01
15:38<DaleStan>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#Industry_location_permissibility_28_
15:38<Wolf01>hello MeusH
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15:39<Wolf01>thank you
15:39<Wolf01>that was the start... now the bugfix patches :D
15:39<MeusH>what bugs do you fix? :)
15:40<Wolf01>not so many bugfixes, but since the applied patch was 4 months old than my latest
15:40<Wolf01>i have some optimizations and little fixes
15:40<@Belugas>DaleStan, i'm a bit worried because of the big maps
15:41<@Belugas>they will suck a lot of juice, i fear
15:41<@peter1138>bah, people running big maps have big cpus ;p
15:41<@Belugas>already, the random generation of oil rig and oil refinery are really hugs, because of the immensity of those maps
15:42<@Belugas>peter1138, that is why you have to buy a new one ;)
15:42<DaleStan>I don't know how reasonable this is, but it might be possible to scan the map in a vaguely circular path from the industry's north tile.
15:42<@peter1138>heh
15:43<@Belugas>true, could be done that way, DaleStan
15:43<hylje>i'd still avoid map-wide stuff
15:43<@Belugas>the steps of the search could be wider then just one tile each
15:44<hylje>and stop the search at a certain distance?
15:44<@Belugas>nope...
15:44<hylje>what if the map is a landmass with no lakes
15:44<@Belugas>unitl it reaches end of map, or sea, depensing of the search
15:44<@Belugas>you have sea on each border ;)
15:44<hylje>hence it would scan most of the map
15:44<@Belugas>what about this? does it make sens ? http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/industry_fix_fs718.diff
15:44<hylje>which hurts
15:45<@peter1138>hmm
15:47<@peter1138>does does it do?
15:47<@Belugas>how could i know...
15:47<@Belugas>locked in my office ;)
15:47<@Belugas>all that i know is that it compiles heheh
15:48<@Belugas>logically, it should work
15:48<@peter1138>erm
15:48<@peter1138>how about
15:48<@peter1138>what does it do?
15:48<@peter1138>stupid keyboard
15:49<@peter1138>messing up words...
15:50<CIA-2>OpenTTD: maedhros * r9566 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r9315): Set the SVN properties on some files.
15:52<@Belugas>problem is that with the appearing chances stuff, i completely lost the reference of the industry id
15:52<@Belugas>so, the array was filled with probabilities,
15:52<@Belugas>but that's it
15:52<@Belugas>the position was not the industry id, just...
15:52<@Belugas>position
15:52<@Belugas>so this way,
15:52<@Belugas>the id is not lost,
15:53<@Belugas>but kept on a member of its own
15:53<@Belugas>not pretty, but it holds the road
15:53<@Belugas>or something
15:55<@Belugas>the other solution, which i just though of, is to increment the num on each pass, even if appearing chance is null
15:55<@Belugas>that way, the offset is really the industry id one
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15:55<@Belugas>don't know which solution is cleaner
15:56<@Belugas>lol!
15:56<@Belugas>industry_cmp.pas...
15:59<Noldo>hey whats in newgrf_callbacks.h
16:00<Maedhros>enums for callback ids and which bits will be set in various variables to say they should be used
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16:01<@Belugas>This would be the other way, i guess: http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/industry_fix_fs718-2.diff
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16:03<Noldo>do those have something to do with the things we talked about earlier?
16:03<@Belugas>na...
16:03<@Belugas>stupid bug fix
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16:08<Maedhros>Belugas: this'd probably do it too... http://devs.openttd.org/~maedhros/fix-bug-718.diff
16:10<@Belugas>a mix of both ways :)
16:11<@Belugas>i wanted to avoid the other array
16:11<Maedhros>fair enough
16:11<Maedhros>btw, how many possible industry ids are there?
16:12<@Belugas>it_end for now, but i hope tomake it bigger
16:13<Maedhros>ok, so a uint16 will definitely be enough for cumulative_probs :)
16:14<@Belugas>oh for sure :)
16:22<@Belugas>i knew it sound familiar!
16:22<@Belugas>HouseID houses[HOUSE_MAX];
16:22<@Belugas>heheh
16:23<@Belugas>going home
16:23<@Belugas>i'll fix the 718 tonigh
16:23<@Belugas>see you
16:23<@Belugas>and Happy easter
16:26<Maedhros>happy easter :)
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17:01<Wolf01>'night all
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17:22<MeusH>goodnight
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21:06<Kander>Born_Acorn - your website has been defaced (or you're running a bit late in taking down a crude first of april joke)
21:12<CIA-2>OpenTTD: belugas * r9567 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix(9555, FS#718): The industry ID been collected was just an index in a out of phase array. Now, ensure that the ID will really be an IndustryType
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23:10<CIA-2>OpenTTD: belugas * r9568 /trunk/src/ (13 files): -Documentation: doxygen and comment changes: Root of src is finally done. Now, time to start clearing as much as possible
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---Logclosed Fri Apr 06 00:00:15 2007