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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-04-12

---Logopened Thu Apr 12 00:00:06 2007
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00:42<MeusH>hi
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01:16<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9602 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r5833): Building rail on steep slopes ignored build_on_slopes patch setting.
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01:51<Vikthor>čau
01:52<Vikthor>errm Hi!
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03:52<TrueBrain>morning all
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04:04<Zuu>TrueBrain: Morning :)
04:05<TrueBrain>pfew, at least one person who is awake :)
04:05<Zuu>Just waked half an hour ago :p
04:05<TrueBrain>me 2, so? :)
04:06<Zuu>It's pretty late, 10:30 here..
04:06<TrueBrain>so? :)
04:07<peter1138>waked D:
04:07<TrueBrain>peter1138: stfu :p
04:07<Zuu>peter1138: Yea how would you spell it?
04:07<TrueBrain>!spell waked
04:07<_42_>TrueBrain: 'waked' is correctly spelled
04:08<TrueBrain>:o:o
04:08<TrueBrain>!whatis waked
04:08<Zuu>GAIM didn't complain about it.. :)
04:08<peter1138>woke
04:08<TrueBrain>doesn't mean it has the same meaning Zuu :)
04:08<TrueBrain>[11:08] <TrueBrain> !whatis waked
04:08<TrueBrain>[11:08] <_42_> TrueBrain: Sorry, but 'waked' is unknown to me. Check spelling!
04:08<TrueBrain>hehe :)
04:09<Zuu>peter1138: Thanks
04:09<TrueBrain>[11:08] <TrueBrain> !whatis woke 5
04:09<TrueBrain>[11:08] <_42_> TrueBrain: [5 of 9] be awake, be alert, be there [ant: {sleep}]
04:09<TrueBrain>:)
04:09<peter1138>english verbs :D
04:10<TrueBrain>I sometimes still have that when I say 'wake' or 'woke', that I have to say the 3 forms... ANNOYING ENGLISH CLASSES
04:10<peter1138>also: "My apologizes", hehe
04:10<peter1138>-z :p
04:11<TrueBrain>Firefox tells me that is how it is spelled :(
04:11<TrueBrain>!spell apologizes
04:11<_42_>TrueBrain: 'apologizes' is correctly spelled
04:11<peter1138>yes, it is, but it's not the word you want
04:11<TrueBrain>I had it without 'z' and it failed to give me an okay on it
04:11<TrueBrain>I HATE ENGLISH! :)
04:12[~]Zuu too, it lacks important wording for my Junctioneer-project. :)
04:12<Zuu>/my/his/
04:12<TrueBrain>We should all learn Dutch!
04:12<TrueBrain>MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
04:13<peter1138>o_O
04:13<TrueBrain>you don't agree or something? :p
04:14<Zuu>TrueBrain: Why not something more exotic like lojban (lojban.org) they claim to have ~10 people that can speek it in the world. :)
04:15<Zuu>And perhaps some more 50-100 who practice it.
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04:18<dihedral>You around Belugas
04:19<TrueBrain>Zuu: nah!
04:19<dihedral>hello TrueBrain
04:19<peter1138>now don't get me started on punctuation...
04:19<TrueBrain>peter1138: which you lack of in a very consistent way? :)
04:20<dihedral>i need to know if that letter for atari is ready to be sent now...
04:20<peter1138>i consistently leave off the last full-stop, yeah
04:21<TrueBrain>dihedral: you should ask Belugas; he will be around in a few hours I guess :)
04:21<peter1138>i'm wonder who dihedral wants to be around Belugas
04:21<peter1138>+ing
04:21<peter1138>YOU! around Belugas!
04:22<peter1138>whoops, i started o_O
04:22<dihedral>i'm lost on that one... peter1138
04:22<TrueBrain>and you are starting to talk gibberish
04:22<peter1138>the ambiguity of missing punctuation
04:23<peter1138>you around belugas could be "you! around belugas!" or maybe "you around, belugas?", but who knows
04:23<peter1138>BUT WHO KNOWS?
04:23<TrueBrain>okay, if you read it like that, it is pretty funny indeed :)
04:23<TrueBrain>Are you around Belugas? :p
04:23<TrueBrain>haha
04:23<TrueBrain>Like he is some huge fatass person
04:24<TrueBrain>haha, okay, I shouldn't try to picture this :)
04:24<TrueBrain>anyway, peter1138, take your medicine :)
04:24<dihedral>:-P
04:24<dihedral>now that was mean
04:24<TrueBrain>dihedral: no, he is on a spree
04:24<dihedral>have some sypathy with peter1138
04:25<dihedral>not just missing punctuation here
04:25<dihedral>m
04:25<boekabart_>I think this channel has gone offtopic this morning.CET ;)
04:25<TrueBrain>offtopic?
04:25<TrueBrain>Depends on what you consider ontopic
04:26<dihedral>true
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04:26<TrueBrain>how I see it: peter1138 is a developer, which is ontopic, and we are talking about what he is talking about
04:26<TrueBrain>so that in fact is ontopic
04:26<dihedral>hmmm
04:27<dihedral>TrueBrain: are you sure peter1138 is the only one in need of medicine?
04:27<TrueBrain>:) We all need our shots
04:27<maad>:)
04:27<dihedral>you nick just blends in perfectly there maad
04:28<TrueBrain>and I like his contribution
04:28<maad>it's not "mad"!
04:28<DorpsGek>bark bark bark woef woef grrrrr
04:28<TrueBrain>you name is mad, maad
04:28<dihedral>now THAT is offtopic
04:28<dihedral>for DorpsGek that is
04:28<Zuu>dihedral: Isn't TrueBrain also a developer?
04:28<maad>in fact, it should be "maade" but sounds silly....
04:29<TrueBrain>Zuu: am I?
04:29<boekabart_>Free upgrade :)
04:29<Zuu>Though so, don't you got dev-status on forums?
04:29<dihedral>isn't everybody in a way...
04:29<maad>dihedral: true
04:29<TrueBrain>Zuu: possible... I have a lot of statuses :p
04:29<boekabart_>even Sergej is a developer (of chaos and mayhem)!
04:29<dihedral>lol
04:30<boekabart_>please no-one ever tell him about IRC ;)
04:31<Zuu>boekabart_: Convince peter1138 that there should not be a IRC-link on the new Main Page then :)
04:31<dihedral>peter1138: there should not be a IRC-link on the new Main Page...
04:31<dihedral>i tried
04:31<TrueBrain>why shouldn't there be?
04:31<dihedral>ask Zuu
04:32<dihedral>have a quick question about dedicated servers
04:32<TrueBrain>okay, very quick then
04:32<dihedral>sorry for being slightly offtopic
04:32<Zuu>boekabart_ didn't want to have Sergej on IRC, but perhaps he is to lazy to check the wiki anyway :)
04:33<dihedral>dedicated servers report to servers.openttd.org - right?
04:33<TrueBrain>dihedral: yes
04:33<boekabart_>trye
04:33<boekabart_>true
04:33<dihedral>would it be possible to ad a custom server to report to?
04:33<TrueBrain>dihedral: why?
04:33<dihedral>so that admins can have those stats on their own website?
04:34<TrueBrain>admins can query the server of their likings
04:34<TrueBrain>Anyway, for LAN events it is possible, by a simple modification
04:34<TrueBrain>for other situations, it mostly is more useful to query the server yourself (as you most likely know the address)
04:34<TrueBrain>and soon it is possible to query the masterserver via XMLRPC
04:35<dihedral>ah... that sounds sweet
04:35[~]Zuu only get half of the letters of XMLRPC :)
04:35<Zuu>But it sounds fancy :p
04:35<TrueBrain>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML-RPC
04:37<dihedral>that was a conversation killer TrueBrain
04:37<peter1138>irc link? what?
04:37<TrueBrain>dihedral: it happens
04:40<boekabart_>uau!
04:44<peter1138>oh
04:44<peter1138>Zuu, do you think he'd understand the wiki?
04:44<Zuu>peter1138: Would he even try?
04:45<Zuu>More seriously, is the channel a place for developers or a place for players?
04:45<Zuu>Perhaps the IRC-link should be more on the dev-side of the Main Page?
04:46<maad>for developers i think
04:46<boekabart_>there is another channel where only devs come i think
04:46<Zuu>I was just lazy and added it where it was easy to add :D
04:46<boekabart_>peter1138 sent me there once i vaguely recall
04:46<peter1138>the supersekritdev channel
04:46<maad>just look at the topic
04:47<dihedral>is just status and info sent to the masterserver?
04:47<dihedral>or is the output from the command players transfered too?
04:47<boekabart_>but i still don't know what the 3 letters in the other channel name suffix stand for. peter1138?
04:48<maad>.42?
04:49<peter1138>who knows
04:50<peter1138>dihedral: most of the info is pulled by the masterserver
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04:52<dihedral>how is that information pulled? is there a way i could write a php script that would then execute rcon commands for me?
04:52<peter1138>well it's not via rcon
04:53<dihedral>obviously
04:54<dihedral>but is there a way i could 'pull' info with php scripts?
04:54<Zuu>peter1138: Please check I've got the wording right about the dev-comunity places: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/New_Main_Page_test :D
04:54<@Rubidium>dihedral: yes
04:54<Zuu>Could be a 'to' that should be an 'in' ...
04:55<dihedral>Rubidium: does that require autopilot?
04:55<@Rubidium>dihedral: no
04:55<dihedral>is there a place i can read up on how?
04:55<@Rubidium>svn://svn.openttd.org/website/include/openttd.inc.php@9000 I believe
04:56<@Rubidium>*includes
04:57<@Rubidium>or svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk/src/network/core/udp.h
04:58<peter1138>Zuu: where?
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05:03<Zuu>peter1138: Last sentence under Development.
05:03<Zuu>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/New_Main_Page_test
05:04<Zuu>Or use history! : http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php?title=New_Main_Page_test&diff=16419&oldid=16373 :)
05:05<dihedral>Rubidium: all the ottd.inc.php file shows is a mysql connection, defining constantds, and populating an array...
05:05<Zuu>Hmm.. [[IRC channel|IRC channel]] should obviously be plain [[IRC channel]] ;)
05:05<@Rubidium>dihedral: I said openttd.inc.php _and_ gave you a specific revision number...
05:06<dihedral>sorry
05:06<dihedral>my bad...
05:08<peter1138>Zuu: i meant where on the page, heh
05:09<peter1138>Zuu: but i guess that means i didn't see anything obvious...
05:11<dihedral>sweeeeet
05:11<dihedral>thanks Rubidium
05:11<dihedral>that looks great
05:12<@Rubidium>It won't be update when the network protocol gets updates though
05:15<dihedral>hmmm.... shame
05:16<dihedral>that thing is really good
05:19<@Rubidium>no, it is a maintainance nightmare... 3 different places where the same functionality is coded in yet another language. Now there is only one version that is used everywhere, which is for (hopefully) obvious reasons much easier)
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05:22|-|SpComb^ changed nick to SpComb
05:22[~]SpComb blames OFTC
05:23<peter1138>b-lame
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05:23[~]SpComb looks at OpenTTD's socket code
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05:23<peter1138>only if you want to go mad
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05:37<SpComb>it's relevant to my interests
05:38<TrueBrain>so?
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05:39<Zuu>peter1138: I think I told where on the page aka under development.. but if you didn't see anything then it's probably okay. :)
05:39<Zuu>Is the orange OpenTTD-logo available as SVG under a lisence that permit me to use it in other creations?
05:40<Zuu>I'm trying to make a Manual-book :)
05:40<blathijs>I would expect the logo to be available under GPL
05:40<TrueBrain>I expect the same, GPL
05:42<SpComb>not that the code is particularly easy to digest
05:42<Zuu>I found it under media/ in the source-tree so forget my question about where to find it.
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05:47<dihedral>well - how about another command line client (in c) that will be able to send rcon commands or fetch data?
05:47<dihedral>then in php that would be a simple system() call
05:47<dihedral>or am i thinking too much linux like?
05:47<TrueBrain>dihedral: how about you keeping the php-script up-to-date for us?
05:47<dihedral>to be honest i would love to
05:48<TrueBrain>that was easy :)
05:48<dihedral>but while i am being honest
05:48<dihedral>let me continue
05:48<TrueBrain>oh, there is more? :p
05:48<dihedral>i need to understand the network side of ottd a lot more,
05:49<dihedral>but other than that - i would love to at least give it a try
05:49<TrueBrain>you only need to understand a very small subset
05:49<TrueBrain>and that is the UDP communication of the QUERY
05:49<dihedral>thankfully
05:49<TrueBrain>the current php needs to be rewritten
05:49<TrueBrain>as the design isn't that good
05:50<dihedral>i shall do my best
05:50<TrueBrain>but if you feel like it, feel free to make such a php, or in what language you feel fit
05:50<TrueBrain>and I promise you I will try to get it somewhere in SVN for others to use :)
05:50<dihedral>php will be fine
05:50<TrueBrain>(can't promise anything of course :p)
05:50<TrueBrain>if you have any questions, feel free to ask
05:50<dihedral>np
05:50<dihedral>as i have in the past few months
05:50<dihedral>i enjoy asking
05:51<TrueBrain>people just want to do: $openttd = new OpenTTDServer("IP", "port"); var_dump($openttd->GetData());
05:51<TrueBrain>and see tons of data, about the year, companies, players, ...
05:51<TrueBrain>maybe with some seperation, but okay, I am sure you have enough ideas ;)
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05:52<TrueBrain>welcome Vikthor
05:52<dihedral>i was thinking along those lines
05:53<dihedral>thou i currently dont know how exactly i can fetch the players information (which integer that is...)
05:53<dihedral>in a few days i shall probably have found out :-P
05:53<TrueBrain>the C++ file is pretty clear about such things
05:53<Ailure>hehe'
05:54<Ailure>I managed to lobby someone in another project to use Squirrel as scripting language :)
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05:54<TrueBrain>SQ is pretty nice, you just need to fix some things in their code :p
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05:54<dihedral>i guess i am looking for an enum where SERVER_RESPONSE is at second place
05:55<TrueBrain>src/network/network_udp.cpp
05:55<TrueBrain>line 57
05:55<TrueBrain>should be all you need
05:55<dihedral>sweet
05:55<dihedral>you really are a TrueBrain
05:56<TrueBrain>and from line 254 it tells you what to send
05:56<TrueBrain>(first was what to expect back :))
05:56<TrueBrain>the networking code is a really simple system :)
05:57<dihedral>great
05:57<dihedral>thank you
05:57<TrueBrain>euh, the first was what to send, the second what to expect back :)
05:57<TrueBrain>hehe :)
05:57<TrueBrain>good luck!
05:57<dihedral>cheers
05:59<dihedral>what is src/network/core/udp.h
05:59<Ailure>http://194.47.44.229/openTTD/unoffical-scania/Nyhamnsl%c3%a4ge%20transports,%2014th%20Feb%201944.png
05:59<Ailure>Imagine if people had to do that IRL
06:00<Ailure>building severeal bridges next to each other as only one train can be on a bridge at a time :)
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06:01<dihedral>sorry - that was not suppoed to be a 'what is' but a 'what is with'
06:01<dihedral>so let me put that out again
06:01<dihedral>what is with src/network/core/udp.h
06:04<TrueBrain>some indepth description of a single package. Possible outdated (comments tend to get outdated soon), and maybe Rubidium knows why it is there in the first place :)
06:04<TrueBrain>ah, yes, to give a fast overivew which GAME_INFO_VERSION sends which reply :)
06:08<dihedral>great... thanks
06:08<dihedral>Belugas: are you around?
06:08<dihedral>peter1138: that is better is it not?
06:09<peter1138>hmm?
06:09<peter1138>oh :P
06:09<boekabart_>Ailure: image 2 trains behind each other on one bridge in real life
06:10<boekabart_>or even close enough behind each other to BE on 1 bridge together in real life
06:10<boekabart_>The rail networks in ottd behave more like (car) freeways anyway, not like railways.
06:13<Zuu>And you need to learn the common pitfalls of SQ.
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06:13<Zuu>sorry (backlog)
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06:15|-|maad_ changed nick to maad
06:19<dihedral>anyway - i need to head out
06:20<dihedral>have a nice day
06:20<dihedral>all of you
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06:37<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r9603 /branches/noai/ (8 files in 5 dirs):
06:37<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AIList(), a simple list in which you can add item/value pairs. You can sort them, walk them, and valuate them
06:37<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Add: added regression for AIList()
06:37<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Note: valuator is untested (and unfinished)
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06:43<ajmiles>hey, wonder if someone could give me a quick hand in understand something in the way openttd works
06:44<ajmiles>*understanding
06:44<ajmiles>i'm trying to work out the average speed a vehicle attains between two stations, i can calculate this in terms of "tiles travelled per day", how do I begin to convert this into sane units like the user's choice of mph / km/h / m/s
06:46<ajmiles>it seems that a vehicle's speed is measured in some abitrary unit that equals 0.5km/h
06:48<peter1138>depends on the vehicle
06:48<ajmiles>for now i'm just worrying about road vehicles, but yes, they do have different multipliers
06:49<ajmiles>SetDParam(1, v->cur_speed * 10 / 32); - is one line that caught my eye in the road vehicle viewwindow code
06:49<Eddi|zuHause2>in the nightlies, that sould be cleaned up
06:49<ajmiles>i checked out the svn source a couple of hours ago
06:49<peter1138>well, there is the issue of tile scale, heh
06:50<ajmiles>10 and 32 appear to be the magic numbers for all vehicles, but i don't know what they do
06:50<ajmiles>actually, trains seem to be * 10 / 16
06:50<ajmiles>as do planes
06:51<Eddi|zuHause2>10/16 = 1/1.6 could be a km/h -> mph factor
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06:51<ajmiles>thats true
06:53<ajmiles>curious, this plane has a v->cur_speed of 477, but the gui shows 479
06:55<Eddi|zuHause2>i did not particularly follow this, but there was some back and forth with "convert to mph in GUI code"
06:56<Eddi|zuHause2>you could check the SVN log for that
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06:57<peter1138>heh, the game units are "fun"
06:57<ajmiles>tortoisesvn appears to not show any logs back beyond march 21
06:57<Eddi|zuHause2>you can change that date
06:58<ajmiles>the days before that aren't available
06:58<ajmiles>ah perhaps it was showing 100, just a sec
06:58<ajmiles>it's downloading something fairly hefty, we'll see what we get
07:00<ajmiles>there are some other really hacky ways i could work out the average speed, but i'd rather not resort to it
07:00<peter1138>is the game speed unit relevant?
07:00<ajmiles>(like, adding the current speed to a counter every tick, then dividing by the number of ticks between station visits, but that just makes me cry)
07:00<peter1138>you just want distance and time...
07:00<ajmiles>well i have that
07:00<ajmiles>this bus is doing 12 tiles in 10 days
07:01<ajmiles>but that does really mean anything until you have it in mph or km/h
07:01<ajmiles>*doesn't
07:03<ajmiles>peter1138, looks like you or celestar made some speed related changes on the 2nd march
07:03<ajmiles>"-Feature/Codechange: Changed the internal unit for aircraft velocities to from 8mph to 1km/h (peter1138), also give aircraft realsitic velocities (so that 1km/h is 1km/h independent of vehicle type) (peter1138)"
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07:07<peter1138>and?
07:07<ajmiles>it's all just a little tricky to understand what's going on here
07:09<Ailure>[13:09] <boekabart_> The rail networks in ottd behave more like (car) freeways anyway, not like railways.
07:09<Ailure>heh
07:09<Ailure>first thingh I thought on when i jumped from TT to TTD
07:09<Ailure>"Hey thoose railway networks looks like highways"
07:09<boekabart_>long time ago, how was TT different?
07:10<Ailure>well
07:10<Ailure>when it comes to networking
07:10<Ailure>there's only one type of signal
07:10<boekabart_>there was only the 2-way? not the 1 way
07:11<Ailure>yeah
07:11<boekabart_>right, then you don't get the cloverleafs and so.
07:11<Ailure>otherwise it's kinda similar in alot of ways
07:11<Eddi|zuHause2>oh yeah, i remember how i made one-way tracks in TTO ;)
07:11<Ailure>but that made a major diffrence for that
07:11<Ailure>eh
07:11<Ailure>for me at least
07:11<Ailure>it was like amazing that I finally could make somewhat sane railway networks :p
07:11<boekabart_>Eddi|zuHause2: how?
07:11<peter1138>heh
07:11<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r9604 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_list.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: set default sort order to value-descending for AIList(), as that most likely will be the most used
07:12<Ailure>I should try digging up one of my oldest TT games
07:12<Eddi|zuHause2>well, you just have to "convince" the trains [pathfinder] that the other way is longer ;)
07:12<Ailure>I probably have rather atricious railway networks though
07:12<boekabart_>what does atricious mean?
07:13<Eddi|zuHause2>that, or use a station that is on one track, and not the other track, as "waypoint"
07:13<Ailure>tons of 90 degree turns
07:13<Ailure>and stuff
07:13<Ailure>yeah when I think on it
07:13<Ailure>it's possible to fake one-way logic in TTO
07:13<Ailure>it just requires more work
07:13<Eddi|zuHause2>depots totally screw things up, so i switched breakdowns off
07:14<Eddi|zuHause2>and occasionally you have trains reversing, that's also "suboptimal"
07:14<Ailure>I also remember some fun things people did
07:14<Maedhros>boekabart_: really terrible
07:14<Ailure>oh god you can't order trains to depots
07:14<Ailure>so you have to do forced servicing D:
07:14<boekabart_>dictionary.com: No results found for atricious.
07:15<ajmiles>atrocious
07:15<boekabart_>atrocious: shockingly bad or tasteless; dreadful; abominable
07:15<boekabart_>got it :)
07:16<Ailure>and then there's the darned vehicle limit
07:16<ajmiles>and station limit
07:16<Ailure>yeah
07:16<Ailure>I remember getting oil rigs
07:16<ajmiles>and overflow of money
07:16<Ailure>without a station
07:16<Ailure>since there were too many stations on the whole map
07:17<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, i remember that, too
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07:17<Eddi|zuHause2>and max. 4x5 stations
07:17<ajmiles>did it not have 7 length?
07:17<Eddi|zuHause2>no.
07:18<Ailure>yeah
07:18<Eddi|zuHause2>7x7 was a TTDP addition
07:18<Ailure>max train length was 10 cars+engine
07:18<Ailure>and stations had to be a perfect square
07:18<Ailure>train stations at least
07:18<Ailure>which is something that would be hard to go back to
07:18<Eddi|zuHause2>s/square/rectangle
07:18<ajmiles>theres a lot in openttd you take for granted that you assume has always been there
07:19<Ailure>and I like irregular shapes now
07:19<Zuu>Don't forget about autorails :)
07:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r9605 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_list.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: RemoveXXXValue and KeepXXXValue could cause infinite loops
07:19<Ailure><_<
07:19<Ailure>I don't use autorails
07:19<Ailure>wel
07:19<Ailure>only for diagonal rails
07:19<Ailure>only becuse you can't drag diagonal rails
07:19<ajmiles>could do with an autoroad tool
07:19<boekabart_>autorails as in pull a stretch of rails??
07:19<boekabart_>how do you not use it? too much time? :)
07:19<Zuu>boekabart_: a-key
07:19<Ailure>I'm too twitchy
07:20<Ailure>besides I use hotkeys to switch directions
07:20<Ammler>Heya, is it possible to export the settings (GRF etc) from a save for a new game?
07:20<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: probably not
07:21<Zuu>Not yet, I would say :)
07:21<Ammler>ok, thx :)
07:21<boekabart_>i have to get used to real. accell still, being able to make 45 deg turns and 'lane changes' for free
07:22<Ailure>I love the new acceleration model :P
07:22<Ailure>even if it's still a bit inaccurate
07:22<Ailure>new and ne
07:22<Ailure>it's been around for awhile
07:22<Ailure>the old one was like
07:22<Ailure>even really powerful trains
07:22<Ailure>would slow down to 30 km/h on slope
07:22<Ailure>which was quite annoying¨
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07:23<boekabart_>it's essential, it now handles a 'sharp looking' 45 deg turn as a nice curve
07:23<boekabart_>since you cannot make those :)
07:23<Ailure>Now I only see that happen if it's a heavy train which dosen't have enough horsepowe to maintain full speed
07:23<Ailure>I usually disallow 90 degree turns too
07:23<Ailure>they're ugly anyway
07:23<boekabart_>i'm thinking about making a patch that renders rails differently when in non-edit mode ;)
07:23<Ailure>heh
07:24<Ailure>I wish there was a diffrence between electrical and regular rail
07:24<Ailure>I only put electrical railway where I use it, but still.
07:24<boekabart_>didn't use them yet
07:24<boekabart_>when needed? to build el. trains?
07:24<Ailure>right now they cost as much and is pretty much identical, apart that electrical trains can't run on non-electrified tracks of course
07:25<boekabart_>anyway i think construction cost is too low, isn't it
07:25<Ailure>I can imagine the construction cost of electrified railway should be double
07:25<boekabart_>at least at the scale normally used (towns close together)
07:25<Ailure>eh
07:25<Ailure>it's too low even at large scale projects
07:26<Ailure>or maybe it's just that you earn too much easily
07:26<ajmiles>a train travelling the distance of the map can easily make construction costs back in one train load
07:26<Ailure>yeah
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07:26<boekabart_>i made a 2048x2048 scenario of the Netherlands, where 1 tile would be about 150 meters
07:26<Ailure>It's kind of unrealistic
07:26<Ailure>I mean
07:26<Ailure>I see trains that pays back their... own train value
07:27<boekabart_>then a rail starts to get more expensive than a train
07:27<Ailure>on their first run
07:27<boekabart_>weird
07:27<Ailure>imagine if that happened in reality
07:27<Ailure>train companies would be really rich
07:27<ajmiles>i would run a train company
07:27<ajmiles>the bank would give me a loan for the train and i'd be sorted
07:27<ajmiles>free money
07:27<Ailure>yeah
07:27<Ailure>Newbies are afraid to take loans
07:28<Ailure>as they're used to the fact that loans tend to be mean in other games
07:28<Ailure>but not in TTD D:
07:28<Ailure>even at highest intrest, it's still quite low
07:28<Zuu>In the early years you'll just loan more and more when the maximum loan increses. :)
07:28<Zuu>Free money :)
07:28<Ailure>heh
07:29<Zuu>Almost..
07:29<Ailure>it dosen't increase when inflation is off though
07:29<Zuu>Okay
07:29<Ailure>I turn inflation off though
07:29<Ailure>it seems to be broken in a few ways
07:29<Ailure>also it's easier to compare profits
07:29<Ailure>from now to ten years ago
07:29<Ailure>when there's no inflation involved
07:30<Ailure>on the other hand
07:31<Ailure>inflation makes it more important on how much you earn
07:31<Ailure>and not how much money you have
07:31<Ailure>Hell in economy
07:31<Ailure>Company economics I had
07:31<Ailure>I was told that money that is just sitting
07:31<Ailure>is wasted money
07:31<Ailure>if it's no invested in anything
07:32<Zuu>I've taken 6 bolonga-points economy and 6 bolonga-points logistics at uni. :)
07:32<Ailure>Ah
07:32<Ailure>to be honest it was a rather basic course though
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07:32<Ailure> l
07:33<Ailure>heh
07:33<Zuu>But we have not coverd inflation in any deapth. :)
07:33<Ailure>really?
07:33<Ailure>We did kinda
07:33<Ailure>sadly most of the example was like
07:33<Ailure>seconday industries companies
07:33<Zuu>I've also been told that if you don't do anything with your 'saved' money you havn't earned anything.
07:34<Ailure>input raw-material output goods companies
07:34<Ailure>which was kinda a shame, as most of the people who went there were IT people ;)
07:34<Ailure>Well
07:34<Ailure>depositing it into a bank so you earn intrest
07:34<Ailure>is considered a investment though
07:34<Zuu>Did you do DuPont?
07:35<Ailure>hmm
07:35<Ailure>I don't really recall if I did
07:35|-|mikk36[EST] changed nick to mikk36
07:35<Ailure>I might have, but just used a diffrent term for it
07:35<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r9606 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_town.cpp ai_town.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: make GetXXX in AITown static, so we can use it without AITown instance
07:35<Ailure>I think I did
07:36<Ailure>becuse it's in my backhead
07:36<Zuu>A magic scheme where you can put your costs and incomes on varoious places and show that you have incresed the performance for the company and therefor should get paid more. :)
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07:38<Ailure>ah
07:38<Ailure>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gdp-and-labour-force-by-sector.png
07:38<Ailure>intresting
07:38<Ailure>still weird that it was production industry biased
07:38<Ailure>when service industry is the most common apparently in western countries
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07:40<Ailure>also shows how statistics can differ alot
07:40<Ailure>depending on what you look on
07:40<Ailure>as one map look on the GDP, other labor force
07:40<hylje>:o
07:41<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r9607 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_transactionmode.hpp squirrel_export.awk): [NoAI] -Fix: instances should be 'x', not 'p' in SQ param list
07:42<Ailure>Taht the devoloped countries are mostly blue shouldn't be a surprise :p
07:42<Brianetta>openttd: /home/ottdcoop/svn-sandbox/src/vehicle.cpp:2911: void Vehicle::LeaveStation(): Assertion `IsTileType(tile, MP_STATION) || type == VEH_SHIP' failed.
07:42<Brianetta>Server has exited
07:43<Ailure>I gotten that error before
07:43<scia>Server has excited
07:43<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r9608 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_list.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix r9607: forgot to commit one file
07:43<hylje>scia: :o
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07:43<Ailure>thing is
07:44<hylje>Brianetta: think it's fixed lately
07:44<Ailure>I'm not sure what happened when I last saw it xD
07:44<Brianetta>I'll tell the coopers to update
07:44<Ailure>oh
07:44<hylje>Brianetta: it happens when you flip a too-long train around in a station
07:44<Ailure>oh
07:44<Ailure>that explains it
07:45<Ailure>I had seen it in a big multiplayer game with long trains
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07:46<ajmiles>there was a bug i had in a nightly from about a week ago with refitting planes while they were carrying another cargo, hadn't seen anything in the changelogs about a fix
07:47<ajmiles>was going to try and repro it first
07:47<Ailure>oh yeah
07:47<Ailure>remember the airport removal bug?
07:48<Ailure>I think it still happens with helicopters
07:48<Ailure>or it dosen't
07:48<Ailure>disregard that hah
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07:58<ajmiles>mmm, v->cur_speed returns the vehicle's last speed even if it has stopped
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08:07<CIA-2>OpenTTD: maedhros * r9609 /trunk/src/ (32 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Move some function prototypes out of functions.h and into landscape.h, and add a few where they didn't exist.
08:14<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r9610 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.nut: [NoAI] -Fix r9604: forgot to update regression
08:17<@Belugas>hello
08:17<Maedhros>hey Belugas
08:18<boekabart_>egladil: finally got around to looking at the 32bpp branch. It good: i could easily port my overlay-patch to it
08:20<boekabart_>he isn't around, is he? :)
08:22<@Belugas>sometimes, he is. but not very often
08:22<@Belugas>i know he does react on highlights, though....
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08:51<Maedhros>hmm, is the "Transparent station signs" setting not saved any more?
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08:56<peter1138>not currently
08:57<peter1138>different var etc...
08:58<Maedhros>ok
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09:06<ajmiles>if i wanted to store information about the fastest speed any bus has ever travelled, where would be a good place to store that?
09:06<ajmiles>(within a particular game)
09:06<boekabart_>finally got around to looking at the 32bpp branch. It good: i could easily port my overlay-patch to it
09:07<boekabart_>?!? sorry
09:07<boekabart_>wrong past
09:09<peter1138>ajmiles: in a new (global) struct along with other records
09:09|-|Osai^zZz changed nick to Osai
09:10<ajmiles>i've barely had time to scratch the surface with reading the code, any pointers as to in which area of the code i should declare this new struct?
09:10<ajmiles>instantiate rather
09:10<egladil>Belugas: indeed i do react on them ;)
09:10<peter1138>probably a new file
09:11<peter1138>it'll need a bunch of saveload handling stuff too
09:11<ajmiles>yeah, but from where in the code do i create an instance of this records struct
09:11<ajmiles>and is there any other files that are similar in what i want to do that i could look at?
09:11|-|Vikthor [novotv6@pc304-20.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:11<ajmiles>*are
09:11<@Belugas>hello egladil :D
09:11<egladil>hello
09:12<TrueBrain>egladil egladil egladil egladil egladil
09:12<TrueBrain>or am I now just being annoying?
09:13<@Belugas>nooooo.... TrueBrain. What makes you think that??
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09:19<egladil>:p
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09:29<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r9611 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/squirrel_export.sh: [NoAI] -Add: allow a single param for squirrel_export which indicates the only file it should run on, instead of all *.hpp files
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09:35<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r9612 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/squirrel_export.awk:
09:35<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: ignore forward class defines in squirrel_export
09:35<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: only publish the lines to SQ that have a () in the line (so functions, not variables)
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09:43<Scarzzurs>Lo there :_)
09:43<Scarzzurs>Is it possible to have new cargoes and industries in openttd yet, or will that be added later?
09:43<TrueBrain>howdie Scarzzurs
09:43<Scarzzurs>It doesn't seem to be in the default nightlies
09:44<@Belugas>it's not there yet, indeed
09:45<@Belugas>newcargos are almost done,
09:45|-|Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
09:45<@Belugas>but newindustries are still a big work in progress
09:46<Scarzzurs>Aren't they very closely related? I mean what good is newcargoes if there are no new industries that produce or accept them?
09:47<@Belugas>yes. that is why newcargos was done first
09:47<Maedhros>they're more related conceptually than code-wise
09:47<Scarzzurs>ah
09:48<@Belugas>because you can't have one newindustries without newcargo, but newcargo can be done without newindustries
09:48<ln->was ist dieses eigentlich: http://www1.conrad.de/scripts/wgate/zcop_b2c/~flN0YXRlPTI1MzI3MDk2MTU=?~template=pcat_product_details_document&product_show_id=641138&no_brotkrumennavi=1&fh_host=www1.conrad.de&fh_session=/scripts/wgate/zcop_b2c/~flN0YXRlPTI1MzI3MDk2MTU=
09:48<@Belugas>other parts of teh game can benefit of it
09:49<TrueBrain>ln-: this still is an english channel
09:50<ln->i hadn't been informed of this sudden change.
09:50<hylje>enterprisey url
09:50<TrueBrain>it never was any other way
09:50<ln->not even when you people spoke dutch?
09:51<TrueBrain>not even then
09:52<ln->shall i be punished?
09:52<TrueBrain>if you want us to
09:52<ln->it's quite harsh to punish me for someone else speaking dutch a year ago.
09:53<TrueBrain>hahaha, oh boy, I need to write thisone down!
09:53<hylje>haha
09:53<hylje>oh wow
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09:54<blathijs>16:52 < TrueBrain> if you want us to <-- I'm wondering. Does that mean "if you want us to be punished" or "if you want us to punish you"
09:54<blathijs>I'd say the latter is meant, but the first is what it technically says
09:55<TrueBrain>blathijs: I leave that free for interpertation :)
09:56<TrueBrain>it depends on what you fancy the most :)
09:56<blathijs>bah, now you make something nasty out of my genuine linguistic concern
09:57<TrueBrain>blathijs: don't you just love it? :)
09:58<ln->now, since this is an english channel, should everyone go have a cup of tea?
09:59<peter1138>yes
09:59<peter1138>that's an excellent idea
09:59<ln->and drive on the left side while talking here
09:59<peter1138>no, don't drive and irc :p
09:59<@Belugas>i object!
09:59<@Belugas>coffee!!!
09:59<TrueBrain>COLA!
09:59|-|raimar3 [~hawk@p5489F083.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
09:59<TrueBrain>but it is new for me that every person speaking english, should drive left, and should drink tea
09:59<@Belugas>bubble.... fizzy drink... TOYLAND!
10:00<TrueBrain>Belugas: YEAH!
10:00<peter1138>it is now (nearly) 4pm
10:00<TrueBrain>Belugas: we should make a link to the real world, thati f you deliver cola to your own town, ingame, you get someone in front of your door with cola, for real :)
10:00[~]peter1138 starves
10:00<TrueBrain>CUP A SOUP!
10:00<peter1138>ehe
10:00<ln->TrueBrain: you didn't specify the "english channel" only limits to language.
10:00<TrueBrain>I am waiting for a room-mate, so we can go and buy some food......
10:01<TrueBrain>ln-: so let's kick out all black people, as I didn't specify that too :s :s :s
10:01<ln->england is full of black people.
10:01<TrueBrain>also full of people not drinking tea
10:01<TrueBrain>your point being?
10:01<TrueBrain>anyway, I love the sun :) (MWHAHAHA @ Belugas :p)
10:02<@Belugas>[11:00] <TrueBrain> Belugas: we should make a link to the real world, <--- real world??? wth is that??
10:02<TrueBrain>Belugas: hmm... I was hoping you knew, I only read the stories
10:02<ln->you should probably read higher-quality news papers.
10:02[~]Belugas thinks TrueBrain should be kicked for making fun of poor souls :(
10:02[~]TrueBrain feels ashamed :)
10:02[~]TrueBrain hugs Belugas
10:02<@Belugas>fuuuuuuuuurrrr
10:02<TrueBrain>FURBY!
10:03<@Belugas>you're forgiven :)
10:03<peter1138>furry? scared
10:03<TrueBrain>Yeah! Tnx Belugas :)
10:04<ln->see, thanks to TrueBrain, my four words of german have evolved into two dozen lines of english nonsense.
10:06<@Belugas>let's get your yayaz out!
10:07<TrueBrain>oeh, DINNER BUY TIME!
10:07<TrueBrain>bbl :)
10:07<@Belugas>nonsense is good sometimes.
10:07<@Belugas>bye TrueBrain
10:08<ln->beware of the leopard
10:18<@Belugas>Beware of Leo's farts
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10:50<Ailure>Leopards eats mexicans now?
10:51<@Belugas>always did
10:53<Ailure>[16:59] <TrueBrain> Belugas: we should make a link to the real world, thati f you deliver cola to your own town, ingame, you get someone in front of your door with cola, for real :)
10:54<Ailure>Reminds me about how you should be able to get clay models of you creatures in spore
10:54<Ailure>:o
10:55<Ailure>And Belugas is a furry?
10:56<hylje>omg no
10:56<Ailure>omg yes
10:56<@Belugas>i shaved this morning... i doubt
10:56<Ailure>awww ;P
11:08<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: i cannot get your link to load properly...
11:08<Eddi|zuHause2>it's telling me it has problems with cookies, or something...
11:09|-|TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C17F.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
11:10<ln->yeah, i noticed that a while ago.. stupid sites that you cannot link to.
11:11<ln->the device is "DCF EMPFAENGERPLATINE", that can be found through the quick search, but what does it actually contain besides the antenna
11:13<Eddi|zuHause2>http://www2.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/625000-649999/641138-sp-02-de-DCF-Empfaengerplatine.pdf if that helps you
11:13<Eddi|zuHause2>(on the right under "Schaltpläne")
11:13|-|Scarzzurs [~Scarzzurs@0x535f7575.ronxx5.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:14<ln->looks quite low-level
11:16<ln->a DCF77 receiver with a *big* antenna would be nice.
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11:16<Eddi|zuHause2>i have no idea what this is supposed to be
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11:29<Wolf01>hello
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11:56|-|mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
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12:22<peter1138>THERE MAY BE TROUBLE AHEAD
12:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: maedhros * r9613 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
12:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Feature: Make it possible to have some control over the town growth. The
12:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: default rate is TTD's original rate, and to approximate OpenTTD's previous
12:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: behaviour the rate should be set to "Fast" or "Very Fast". Town growth can be
12:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: switched off entirely, and if so, buildings will not be rebuilt. It is also
12:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: possible to specify a proportion of towns that grow twice as fast as the
12:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: others.
12:24<Maedhros>there may indeed :)
12:25<peter1138>woohoo
12:26<Wolf01>good :D
12:26<Wolf01>there is extremely low?
12:26<peter1138>there's a "none"
12:26<Wolf01>none is sad :(
12:26<peter1138>hehe
12:27<Maedhros>there's none, slow, normal, fast, and very fast
12:27<peter1138>Maedhros: did you reinstate "normal" as the original speed?
12:27<Maedhros>yup
12:27<Wolf01>ah good, at least slow :D
12:27<peter1138>so it'll all the slower anyway
12:27<peter1138>is fast or very fast like it has been since... forever?
12:27<hylje>peter1138: you missed a verb there
12:28<peter1138>s/the/be/
12:28<@Belugas>snow is fallin :(
12:28<@Belugas>+g
12:28<Eddi|zuHause2>it's april, what do you expect? :)
12:29[~]peter1138 ponders sitting outside with the laptop
12:29<Eddi|zuHause2>"april" is not exactly synonym for "stable weather" ;)
12:29<peter1138>as it's a lovely day
12:29<Maedhros>fast is twice the original rate, very fast is four times
12:29<Maedhros>the way it used to be is ~3 times as fast
12:29<peter1138>hmm
12:29<peter1138>well, it was too fast anyway :)
12:29<Eddi|zuHause2>how does "none" behave whe funding new buildings?
12:30<@Belugas>maybe fund industries should be removed then...
12:30<@Belugas>industries...
12:30<@Belugas>sorry
12:30<peter1138>hehe
12:30<@Belugas>buildings
12:31<@Belugas>#i've got my mind
12:31<@Belugas>#SET ON YOU
12:31<peter1138>but it's gonna take
12:31<Eddi|zuHause2>why remove?
12:31<@Belugas>a very a very a ver a very long time
12:31<Maedhros>Eddi|zuHause2: you still don't get any buildings, even when pressing "fund new buildings"
12:31<peter1138>to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it RIGHT
12:32<Eddi|zuHause2>it should still work
12:32<@Belugas>so just remove it then...
12:32<@Belugas>:D at peter1138
12:32<Eddi|zuHause2>imho
12:32<@Belugas>a whole lot of precious time
12:33|-|scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
12:33<Eddi|zuHause2>maybe "fund new buildings" should just instantly create a building or something
12:33<Eddi|zuHause2>i.e. nothing with a delayed effect
12:34<Eddi|zuHause2>(that would obviously be delayed infinitely)
12:35<ln->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Creationist_car.jpg
12:36<peter1138>o_O
12:37<hylje>:o
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12:42<Wolf01>i've seen a "modified cost of building grf" in the Brianetta's server, is possible to modify the terraform and rail/road costs with a grf?
12:43<peter1138>yes
12:43<peter1138>precisely what that grf does
12:43<Wolf01>:O
12:44<Wolf01>this is like "enjoy the power of grf!"
12:49<Wolf01>too bad that grfs require to be decompiled and recompiled again if somebody wants to change something :)
12:49<@Belugas>it's not too hard to do, you know...
12:50<@Belugas>but it does require a bit of knowledge to get the job done, once decompiled
12:51<Wolf01>i don't know, i never tried, but i'm used to change easily the settings on ini files or directly in the game... or code them if i can
12:52<@Belugas>not quite the same thing :)
12:52<@Belugas>but knowledge is the source of the power!
12:52<Wolf01>i'm wondering if there is a way to set the day length with a grf
12:53<peter1138>heh
12:53<peter1138>no
12:53<peter1138>not even a hard way
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12:56<Wolf01>i'm wondering also why my daylength patch can't work well with multiplayer, if i set it NS the game desyncs always
12:57<peter1138>well, it needs to be saved
12:58<Maedhros>NS doesn't work, and should probably be removed
12:58<Maedhros>if you use it, it only gets synced when the value changes
12:59<Wolf01>oh, that's why
13:00<Maedhros>Eddi|zuHause2: i've got a patch to use the "normal" growth rate values when you use Fund new buildings
13:04<Wolf01>with town growth set to none, can houses disappear automatically?
13:05<Eddi|zuHause2>i hope not
13:05<Maedhros>well, newgrf houses can if they are specifically set to (e.g. stock markets in ttrs[23])
13:05<Maedhros>but otherwise no
13:09<Wolf01>can i suggest one thing? i would like to have "Change setting value x to y" when double cliking on a value in the configure patches
13:11<peter1138>like it does?
13:11<peter1138>well, for numerical values
13:11<peter1138>oh, but it's single click
13:13<Maedhros>should funding new buildings with town growth set to none be a patch option?
13:14<peter1138>yapo
13:14<peter1138>is it necessary
13:14<peter1138>?
13:14<Maedhros>probably not
13:15<ln->german fighter down near interlaken.
13:17<Eddi|zuHause2>where the hell is "interlaken"?
13:17<ln->in the middle of switzerland.
13:18<ln->the lauterbrunnental 10 km from interlaken is the place that j.r.r. tolkien visited in 1910's, and which is the inspiration of rivendell.
13:20<scia>which tunnel there is the inpiration for Moria?
13:21<hylje>probably some random coal mine
13:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: maedhros * r9614 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Feature: Use the normal growth rate values when the growth rate is set to none and "Fund new buildings" is used.
13:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: miham * r9615 /trunk/src/lang/ (hungarian.txt italian.txt japanese.txt):
13:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-04-12 20:22:06
13:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: hungarian - 8 fixed by miham (8)
13:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: italian - 21 fixed, 707 changed by lorenzodv (728)
13:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: japanese - 11 fixed by ickoonite (11)
13:30<Wolf01>how much the Brianetta's "modify costs grf" change the costs?
13:31<Wolf01>i want something like terraforming cost x1000
13:31<peter1138>it's pikkas, and not that much
13:31<Wolf01>i'll try to make one for me :D
13:32<Wolf01>there's somebody who can tell me how to start?
13:32<peter1138>iirc a value of something like 0x12 would * 1024
13:33<Wolf01>i meant how to start to code grfs :D
13:34<peter1138>well
13:34<Wolf01>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=NewGraphicsSpecs <- i think i should start from here
13:34<peter1138>yes
13:34<hylje>oh why can the grfs not be human-readable
13:34<peter1138>because they're machine readable
13:34<hylje>which could be done on load
13:34<hylje>with no overhead
13:36<peter1138>well, code it then
13:36<CIA-2>OpenTTD: maedhros * r9616 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Cleanup: Remove the NS setting type since it causes desyncs in multiplayer mode and only serves to confuse patch authors.
13:37<hylje>i probably could, but im not comfortable with c++
13:37<peter1138>you would be afterwards
13:37<hylje>although think a grf compiler could be done as an external tool
13:38<peter1138>funny that
13:38<Wolf01>nooo i missed the change of the hospital picture of the TTRS :(
13:39<peter1138>hehe
13:40<Wolf01>uhm, there is one which is still the same
13:43<Maedhros>it's a bit random, so it should change within a few years
13:43<Eddi|zuHause2>you need no C[++] skills to create a compiler
13:44<Eddi|zuHause2>narf, now you got me started on lotr again, curse you, ln-
13:48<Wolf01>uhm, i'm still wondering why is not possible to build a bridge along a slope... you can build tracks, wny not a bridge?
13:49<Eddi|zuHause2>why build a bridge when you can build tracks?
13:50<@Belugas>big white flakes on my window
13:50<Wolf01>because there is a road under
13:50<@Belugas>what an horrible sight
13:50<Wolf01>and i don't have enough space to build in another place
13:50<Wolf01>because of a city
13:51<peter1138>Belugas: you should wash your hair more often
13:51<@Belugas>hehe
13:52<Wolf01>23°C here
13:52<@Belugas>if only it was that :;)
13:52<@Belugas>it's not cold, between -1 and 1, but it's just... ugly
13:53<peter1138>no, that is cold
13:53<scia>hmm isn't it spring?
13:53<peter1138>not in canadaia
13:55<@Belugas>i have my leather jacket when outside. Does not feel cold. Not hot, but not cold.
13:56<@Belugas>thick skin :)
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13:56<scia>Belugas: seal-skin?
13:58<@Belugas>a seal is not a dolphin :P
13:58<@Belugas>or a whale...
13:58<hylje>dolphin skin?
13:58<@Belugas>yup :)
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14:00<peter1138>HOME by the SEA
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14:24<Ailure>ok
14:27<hylje>:3
14:27<Ailure>mew :3
14:29<hylje>i caught a mew
14:30|-|Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:31<SpComb>wheeled seal.
14:31<hylje>what has science done?
14:32<SpComb>many things
14:33<Ailure>aahh
14:33<Ailure>what's with the gibberish spam
14:33<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9617 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Codechange: Implement callback for cargo profit calculation
14:33<Ailure>with hundreds and thousands all over the image
14:33<Ailure>...
14:33<Ailure>xD
14:33<Ailure>That might not be correct name
14:33<Ailure>some sort of condiment you have on ice cream
14:35<Wolf01>i learnt something new
14:35<peter1138>what what what
14:35<hylje>lol wut
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14:36<peter1138>bjarniized
14:36<Wolf01>if i'm looking at the old ruined hospital in a city A, but there is an old but good hospital in a city B, the hospital in the city B will be demolished and rebuilt before the one in the city A
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14:36<peter1138>hmm
14:36<peter1138>isn't it... random?
14:36<Wolf01>hello Bjarni
14:37<@Bjarni>hi channel :)
14:37<Wolf01>yes, but also random demolish speed
14:37<peter1138>SIR BJARNI
14:37<peter1138>hmm
14:37<peter1138>well that might be a bug :p
14:37<ln->welcome to the english channel, bjarni
14:38<@Bjarni>*English
14:38<@Bjarni>:p
14:38<Wolf01>or maybe is related to Maedhros new feature... the one i was looking at belonged to a "slow" city, and the other to a "fast" city
14:38<peter1138>possible
14:38<@Bjarni>btw I found something I didn't know we had in the country
14:39<peter1138>bacon?
14:39<ln->a woman?
14:39<Wolf01>tea?
14:39<peter1138>lego?
14:39<@Bjarni>inside the main repair shop in Copenhagen is there a turntable with catenary
14:39<peter1138>oh
14:39<hylje>what
14:39<peter1138>how boring
14:39<@Bjarni>it's not visible from the outside
14:39<hylje>screenshots or it doesnt exists
14:39<hylje>-s
14:39<Wolf01>lol
14:39<@Bjarni>I will bring my camera next time I have to pass it (Monday)
14:39<ln->they are obviously trying to compete with us
14:40<@Bjarni>well
14:40<@Bjarni>hmm
14:40<@Bjarni>what it the voltage in Finnish catenary?
14:41<ln->25 kV i think
14:41<Eddi|zuHause2>you have catenary in denmark? blasphemy!
14:41<@Bjarni>we use 25 kV
14:41<hylje>third rail ftw?
14:41<@Bjarni>LOL
14:41<peter1138>3rd rail :D
14:41<peter1138>and 4th rail!
14:42<@Bjarni>25 kV in 3rd rail :D
14:42<hylje>badgers say bzzt
14:42<@Bjarni>the security distance from a fallen down wire is 5 meters
14:42<@Bjarni>preferable more
14:42<hylje>you know what?
14:42<@Bjarni>in other words: run away!
14:42<hylje>the local traffic trains have a warning in them
14:43<hylje>it forbids climbing atop the train when catenary is powered
14:43<hylje>when it isnt its apparently ok to climb atop it
14:43<Wolf01>found a bug!
14:43<@Bjarni>LOL@hylje
14:43<peter1138>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Metro_Paris_rubber_wheel.jpg
14:43<peter1138>now that is fucked up
14:44<Eddi|zuHause2>hylje: is that like: if it does not say coffee is hot on the cup, it is ok to treat it like cold coffee?
14:44<hylje>err.. what?
14:44<Wolf01>fast forward on, autosave, fastforward widget unset but ff still on :D
14:44<peter1138>Wolf01: still? hmmmm
14:45<hylje>Eddi|zuHause2: its probably like "when coffee is hot, dont spill it on your lap"
14:45<@Bjarni>that reminds me of a drunk guy, who wanted to commit suicide by jumping off a bridge. When people convinced him to go back, he was hit by the pantograph on a passing train ("only" 1,5kV). He fell down on the roof without being fried and they had to cut power pretty fast to get him down
14:45<hylje>and spilling cold coffee on one's lap is likely ok
14:45<@Bjarni>he survived with minor injuries
14:45<@Bjarni>now that's an odd way for a train to hit a person
14:46<ln->1,5kV AC or DC?
14:46<Eddi|zuHause2>1,5kV does not sound like a typical AC value
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14:47<Eddi|zuHause2>though most common DC is probably 500V
14:47<Eddi|zuHause2>most german trams use that
14:48<@Bjarni>it's the DC system from the 30s that nobody found the cash to replace
14:50<hylje>rubber tyre trains are indeed silly
14:53<@Bjarni>both yes and no
14:53<@Bjarni>they are designed to reduce a noise problem
14:53<@Bjarni>I guess they have an easier time braking and accelerating as well
14:54<@Bjarni>however they get worn faster
14:54<hylje>do they use rails as usual?
14:54<@Bjarni>yes
14:55<@Bjarni>also some train detection systems (most of them) relies of magnetic abilities in the metal of the wheels (axle count) or the ability to transfer a voltage from one rail to the other one
14:55<@Bjarni>I don't know how they solved those issues with rubber tires
14:55<hylje>probably they didnt
14:55<hylje>and use some other kind of detection
14:55<hylje>say, timetables
14:56<scia>did you see the picture
14:56<scia>it are just normal car tires :p
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14:57<@Bjarni>michelin tried to convince Denmark to buy a train with tires like that
14:57<scia>they seem to drive between the rails instead of on them :s
14:57<@Bjarni>we didn't and it turned out to be good... they appeared to have problems
14:57<@Belugas>we have those kind of metros on tires in here.
14:57<peter1138>looks a bit bumpy :p
14:57<@Belugas>work like a charm
14:58<@Belugas>nope... they look confortable :D
14:58<@Belugas>and they are!
14:58<scia>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Bogie-metro-Meteor-p1010693.jpg
14:58<@Bjarni><scia> they seem to drive between the rails instead of on them :s <-- look at the track. It appears to have two rails, one for the wheels to stand on and a higher one to "guide" the train
14:58<scia>indeed, on a closer look
14:59[~]Bjarni has looked at rails and bogies before
14:59<@Bjarni>I notice when "they look out of the ordinary"
14:59[~]scia goes to sleep
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15:00<@Belugas>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Montreal_metro_tires.jpg
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15:00<@Belugas>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:QC-STM_GarageBeaugrand_20040706-135814_Atelier.jpg
15:01<peter1138>heh, looks like the same units too
15:01<@Belugas>yup :)
15:01<@Belugas>quite
15:02<+glx>[21:58:05] <@Belugas> we have those kind of metros on tires in here. <-- of course they bought our system :)
15:02<@Bjarni>Do they ever get delayed/canceled because they puncture?
15:04<@Belugas>glx , are you sure it's not the other way around ? :P
15:04<@Belugas>hehe
15:04<@Belugas>Bjarni : not that i know.
15:04<+glx>Belugas: 1951
15:05<+glx>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-tyred_metro
15:06<@Belugas>true true :)
15:07[~]Bjarni wonders if glx just updated wikipedia
15:08<+glx>lol
15:08<@Bjarni>brb
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15:36<@Belugas>byebye good night
15:36<@Belugas>and enjoy the moment
15:38<Wolf01>night
15:41<Wolf01>i must have a pcx file to create a grf or i can code a nfo alone?
15:46<ln->http://www.expressen.se/resor/1.635848
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16:03<Wolf01>'night all
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16:17<@Bjarni>ln-: I read an article about a Ryanair plane flying from London to Denmark (Billund) and it dropped a part of the wing in the flight
16:17<@Bjarni>it wasn't a critical part, but still and since the story started with a picture of the wing with the missing part, they had to admit that it was true
16:17<@Bjarni>so much for safety
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16:22<`Alex`>hi all
16:22<`Alex`>can someone tell me if there will ever be the smooth economy patch in the openttd trunk?
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16:22<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, i only understand about every second word of that article...
16:23<ln->Bjarni: things happen to all airline companies..
16:24<`Alex`>or are you even considering that patch?
16:24<Eddi|zuHause2>`Alex`: i have not seen any discussion about this
16:25<Eddi|zuHause2>and it's probably not going to happen, considering the gamebalance branch
16:25<`Alex`>do you know what that patch is about?
16:25<Eddi|zuHause2>not exactly
16:26<`Alex`>it makes the industries produce more or less depending on the demand put on them
16:27<Eddi|zuHause2>again, it's probably conflicting with the plan for the gamebalance branch
16:27<@Bjarni><ln-> Bjarni: things happen to all airline companies.. <--- yeah, but more often to low cost airlines than expensive ones (go figure)
16:28<`Alex`>i think the patch would make the multiplayer games more enjoyable to all players
16:28<@Bjarni>but the main issue is actually something else: we spent fortunes to reduce pollution and then some airline decides to more or less give tickets away for free to get more passengers
16:28<`Alex`>there would be no industry grabbing
16:29<peter1138>so less challenge?
16:29<`Alex`>no
16:29<`Alex`>the players rating decides if he will get the resources from that industry
16:30<`Alex`>so if he is lower than the other players stations near that industry he will not get as many resources
16:30<`Alex`>thats what the rating is all about
16:32<`Alex`>the only difference will be that all the players would have to chance to compete at an already producing industry
16:32<`Alex`>the more the demand (90% or more transported) the more it will gradualy increase in production
16:33<`Alex`>or it will decrease if no one is using the industry
16:34<`Alex`>there is also a sensitivity setting of 1<->10 that affects the production change over time
16:36<Eddi|zuHause2>http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/the-future.pdf
16:36<`Alex`>balancing rules for future releases?
16:37<@Bjarni>goodnight
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16:38<`Alex`>this seems even better as it is divided into difficulties
16:38<`Alex`>but the formulaes can get quite complicated
16:39<`Alex`>i cant even imagine the code behind those rules
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16:40<Eddi|zuHause2>you don't have to :)
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16:41<`Alex`>when will this happen?
16:43<`Alex`>i would love to help but my C is bad and i am busy with school
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16:44<Ailure>hmm
16:44<Ailure>ok
16:44<Ailure>confession time
16:44<Ailure>What's the most evil thing you done in a multiplayer game? :)
16:44<`Alex`>well now
16:44<`Alex`>let me think
16:45<Ailure>Me? I bought exclusive rights on a single town in a game, causing someone's whole network to deadlock
16:45<Ailure>(He had lots and lots of trains long trains)
16:45<`Alex`>nice
16:45<`Alex`>whats even more evil
16:45<`Alex`>when dissasters are enabled
16:46<Eddi|zuHause2>`Alex`: it's the plan for the gamebalance branch, which has already started
16:46<Ailure>which reminds me
16:46<Ailure>hmm
16:46<`Alex`>i destroy the opponets buses with my trains
16:47<Eddi|zuHause2>i have not played a lot of multiplayer games
16:47<Ailure>I have
16:47<Ailure>heh
16:47<`Alex`>or what something critical on his line is destroyed i quickly fill it with my own stuff and than he has to manouver around it if he can
16:47<Ailure>You tend to notice the exploits much more
16:47<Ailure>although I remmeber in TTO
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16:48<Ailure>where a bug allowed you to destroy some of opponents stuff
16:48<Ailure>oh yeah
16:48<Ailure>you build track on his road
16:48<Ailure>and then you can demolish the road tile
16:48<Ailure>that 'bug' was fixed in TTD though
16:48<`Alex`>or build tracks around his stations
16:50<`Alex`>or the most evil thing
16:50<`Alex`>you give him 100's of millions of $
16:50<`Alex`>and then he is bored
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16:57<ln->how to differentiate f(ax+bt, by+at) when f is not known?
16:58<ln->or, we know that f: R² -> R, and partial derivatives is what we want
16:59<peter1138>remember
16:59<peter1138>this is an english channel
16:59<peter1138>not a maths channel
16:59<ln->i have received very good maths advice here earlier.
17:00<ln->however, the answer is probably the chain rule, i'll look into it before asking for more details..
17:00<Eddi|zuHause2>that's what i was about to write
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17:13<smithj>hello
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20:09<ln->how to count a level curve when the gradient is known?
20:10<ln->those two are perpendicular, but that's not enough knowledge.
20:11<ln->or is it..
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20:22<Sacro>ln-: its 1/gradient
20:22<Sacro>no, -1/gradient
20:28<ln->i counted a cross product of the gradient and (0,0,1) because the gradient happened to have only i and j components. dunno how good idea was that.
20:32<Sacro>hmm
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---Logclosed Fri Apr 13 00:00:26 2007