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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-04-14

---Logopened Sat Apr 14 00:00:54 2007
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01:41<Wolf01>peter, i plan to put another widget on the transparency options toolbar, to toggle the memorization of active transparencies, instead of use patch settings, what do you think?
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01:53<lolman>Morning :)
01:56<Wolf01>hello lolman :)
01:57<lolman>Ello Wolf01 :)
02:00<lolman>Have I missed much in the couple of weeks I've been away? :P
02:01<Wolf01>may be possible to code a "gui creator" to make more simple to create and edit a gui? i'm not good in maths, to sum numbers from 1 to 10 is not a problem, but when i have multiples of 21, 43 etc is hard :D
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02:18<Wolf01> a widget should be more meaningful than an hidden patch option :D
02:27<Maedhros>Frostregen: NS was removed for a reason - i.e. it causes multiplayer desyncs
02:32<Wolf01>that was an useful feature, if only worked, i think the solution to sync it at game start was not so easy, right?
02:45<peter1138>... a useful ...
02:45<peter1138>english :D
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04:44<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r9622 /branches/noai/ (12 files in 5 dirs):
04:44<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AITownList, which lists all towns (and which you can iterate)
04:44<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AITownListValuators, to get, for example, all population of the townlist (see regression-test for example)
04:44<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: fixed AIList to allow Valuators in a simple and safe way (tnx a lot KUDr)
04:44<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Update: updated regression to test above changes
04:44<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: Valuate() of valuators are no longer public (Rubidium)
04:48<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r9623 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_list.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: some comments to make doxygen happy
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07:08[~]Wolf01 wonders why is still not possible to rename buoys
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07:14<Sacro>oh noes
07:15<lolman>Hmm I need food...bbs
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07:39<lolman>And back :)
07:45<Sacro>oh noes
07:45<lolman>oh noes indeed
07:46<antichaos>peter1138, will the newcargo stuff mean that where we currently have code like 'if (cargo_type == CT_PASSENGERS)' we will have to do something different?
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09:00[~]mggrant peers at antichaos and wonders if he ever used to play ATITD
09:00<antichaos>I did indeed
09:00|-|mggrant changed nick to FaceAnkh
09:00<FaceAnkh>small world :)
09:00<antichaos>no way!
09:00<FaceAnkh>how're you doing? :)
09:00<antichaos>how are you doing?
09:01<FaceAnkh>hehe, good thanks - currently down in Plymouth :)
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09:01<antichaos>I'm good too. RL really caught up with me though :)
09:01[~]FaceAnkh has a RL job now too and far less playtime, though is still bashing the odd camel
09:01<FaceAnkh>yeah, it does that :/
09:02<FaceAnkh>I hear we get our lives back when we retire ;)
09:02<FaceAnkh>hope it caught up with you in a good way, at least :)
09:03<antichaos>Wife and baby on the way, so yes :)
09:04<FaceAnkh>woohoo! :D
09:04<FaceAnkh>congrats :D
09:05<FaceAnkh><TheDude> wow! pass on a congrats :D
09:05[~]FaceAnkh has to pass that news around ;)
09:06<antichaos>Aw thanks :) I do miss you all sometimes.
09:07<FaceAnkh>still a fair few people lurking around in #atitd if you fancy visiting sometime, but no hurry :)
09:08<antichaos>I shall.
09:08<FaceAnkh>when is the baby due? :)
09:09<antichaos>Mid November
09:09<FaceAnkh>still a bit of time to knit socks and stuff then ;)
09:10<peter1138>headache :/
09:10[~]Eddi|zuHause2 gives peter1138 aspirin
09:10<antichaos>Just trying to complete a few personal projects before that's all I'm doing ;)
09:11<FaceAnkh>hehe, cool :)
09:11<FaceAnkh><TheDude> whatever hes up to, im sure its something way above my head (including the wife and baby :P)
09:11[~]FaceAnkh grins and had to quote that one too :)
09:11<FaceAnkh>great to see you again anyway :)
09:11<peter1138>antichaos: yes
09:12<antichaos>And you.
09:12<antichaos>peter1138 as of now?
09:12<peter1138>antichaos: probably 'if (GetCargo(cargo)->town_effect == TE_PASSENGERS)'
09:13<peter1138>then it'll do it for all cargo types that behave like passengers
09:14<antichaos>ok, thanks.
09:15<peter1138>or it can be done with classes, heh
09:17<antichaos>Will this allow newhouses to accept/produce new cargos too?
09:18<peter1138>yeah, that can be done already
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09:24<rane>is there already a convenient way to upgrade electric trains to monorail?
09:24<Eddi|zuHause2>there will never be one
09:24<rane>why's that?
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09:25<peter1138>never say never
09:27<Eddi|zuHause2>imho: a) just-in-time conversion of an entire network is stupid, b) you should play the game, not have the game play for you, c) with rebalancing stuff, the situation that you want to replace the entire network should not occure anymore
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09:43<rane>yeah, maybe convert the network small parts at time. that'll work!
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10:57<Eddi|zuHause>hmz, almost 30°C, the computer does not like this very much
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11:17<Wolf01>i'm still using steam engines in 2030, somebody told me about maglev, but i don't know what is it
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11:19<Wolf01>one thing i would find usefull: autoroute, maybe for little distances, like climbing an hill, which show you a possible layout, maybe you can select between "shortest, realistic, less terraform, etc"
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>yes, something like this will be needed for new rail AI
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12:01<UndernotBuilder>the main reason because I prefer stable releases than nightlies is because there are more servers and more people in the first one
12:02<Wolf01>only because is hard to find 2 same nightlies when not all the people want to update their every night
12:03<UndernotBuilder>maybe if most of we agree to use a standard nightly for mp we can get more players on nightlies servers
12:03<peter1138>laptop not bright enough outside :(
12:37<HMage>don't ever try to build railway like this -- :)
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>"russian engineering" :)
12:45<HMage>i'd say "russia is too f@#%ing huge to maintain" :)
12:45<HMage>but yeah, hack'n'slash-type engineering is prominent here
12:45<HMage>that's why most things are designed to be idiot-proof in russia
12:47<mggrant>peter1138: get a sony laptop - they have stunningly bright screens
12:47<mggrant>works in direct sunlight forme
12:48<peter1138>this one had the advantage of being free
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13:10<mggrant>ah, hard to beat free :)
13:11<peter1138>anyway, i can see it now; the sun's going down
13:11<peter1138>of course, that means it's getting a bit cold...
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13:22<Digitalfox[Home]>Hi :)
13:23<Digitalfox[Home]>peter1138: Using TTRS 3 and openttd last nightly, banks still use old banks grafics, doesn't ttrs 3 replace banks?
13:24<peter1138>yes it does
13:24<peter1138>but they're industries
13:25<Digitalfox[Home]>So ttrs changes the behavior of banks or just the grafics?
13:25<peter1138>behaviour, presumably
13:25<Digitalfox[Home]>oh ok :)
13:26<peter1138>if it was just graPHics it would work
13:26<Digitalfox[Home]>I'll use other newgrf graphics for banks ;)
13:26<Digitalfox[Home]>thanks for explaining ;)
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13:57<Ammler>Why is the front page of the wiki write protected?
13:57<+glx>to prevent vandalism
13:57<Ammler>When did this happen?
13:58<Ammler>(just wondering)
13:58<Ammler>because I liked to change the link to the forum
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14:07<TrueBrain>Ammler: long long long long LONG ago :)
14:08<Ammler>Then it would be time to open it...
14:08<TrueBrain>you can just ask admins to change what ever you think that hsould be changed :)
14:09<Ammler>the link to the forum should be
14:10<+glx>or :)
14:10<TrueBrain>remember that it is your opinion ;) And I go with glx :)
14:10<Ammler>I fully agree with glx
14:10<Ammler>And why is it not this link?
14:10<TrueBrain>I dunno, it is linked to there overhere
14:11<Ammler>The problem of your paranoia is that nobody can change such little things.
14:12<TrueBrain>'my paranoia' :s
14:13<Ammler>lol, you are fast
14:14<TrueBrain>Ammler: no, we just do such little changes when ever someone tells us about it.
14:15<Ammler>Is the vandalism still in the histoy?
14:16<UndernotBuilder>I want :)
14:17<Ammler>UndernotBuilder: you are to slow....
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14:18<UndernotBuilder>wait a moment
14:18<UndernotBuilder>that forum looks familiar to me :P
14:19<Frostregen>good to know... no more scrolling =)
14:19<Ammler>I was wondering why nobody did change the MiniIN page and did it self, later I found out, that it has stopped
14:19<peter1138>i always had c=20 bookmarked...
14:20<UndernotBuilder>but when you return to forums list returns to full tt-forums :S
14:20<Ammler>that why
14:20<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r9624 /branches/noai/src/squirrel_std.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: stupid OSX defines 'require' as macro... which sane system does that?!
14:20<Ammler>you need such noobs like me sometimes
14:20<peter1138>UndernotBuilder: dunno, i always just used the back button...
14:20<+glx>I always use 3 tabs :)
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14:24<Ammler>hmm, just checked, the frontpage of wikipedia is also protected
14:24<TrueBrain>of course it is
14:25<TrueBrain>you never saw the spam-bots? :)
14:27<Ammler>aha, thats why you use catcha for external links, ok, I understand you now
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14:31<DorpsGek>bark bark bark woef woef grrrrr
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14:39<Digitalfox[Home]>Hello Bjarni, are you thinking of adding to autoreplace also the option to chose refit if available, it would very noce for newgrf, like george vehicles v4 or train set's :)
14:40<@Bjarni>autoreplace already refits if needed
14:41<@Bjarni>autoreplace will never change the type of cargo the vehicle carries as it can cause a lot of problems for the player
14:41<Wolf01>i would like replace only listed vehicles for a station instead of all the vehicles
14:41<@Bjarni>me too
14:41<Digitalfox[Home]>Well, let's give this example, some trucks have 2 kinds of goods limit, one limit is 50 the other 60, so it will chose the first in list not the max.. I hope you cabn understand my point
14:41<@Bjarni>but it's not as easy to code as you might think
14:42<Sacro>zomg a Bjarni
14:45<Digitalfox[Home]>I'm not talking about cargo change, but when some vehicles have multi versions for carring the same cargo, let's take a bus where he can carry 33 / 50 / 80 /120 passangersm auto replace will just replace with the standard, and won't give the option to chose..
14:46<peter1138>can you even *imagine* how a GUI to control that would look?
14:47<Digitalfox[Home]>standard i mean default.. Well peter1138 i know it's not a easy think, but for me and also everybody else, it would help a lot the autoreplace nightmare of 380 buses
14:47<peter1138>or just use a sensible vehicle set
14:48<@Bjarni>it would be a whole lot of work to make this... too much compared to the benefit compared to the other stuff I should be looking at
14:48<Digitalfox[Home]>peter1138: Even dbsetxl has the same problem, where some engines that can carry mail or passengers you can't chose what theengines should load
14:48<@Bjarni>so pick a sane vehicle set
14:49<peter1138>it's just not practical
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14:49<Digitalfox[Home]>ok, maybe in a very far future :)
14:49<peter1138>and still
14:49<peter1138>you've gotta play the game at some point
14:49<@Bjarni>this is a classic. I add a feature and people go "it could be better".... try to play without autoreplace then :p
14:51<Digitalfox[Home]>Bjarni: I'm not complaining about autoreplace not being a really nice feature, it is a really nice feature, just a little upgrade is what i'm asking, but i understand it would take a lot of work, so just forget it :)
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14:51<peter1138>it's not little
14:51<@Bjarni>"just a little upgrade"...
14:51<@Bjarni>it's huge
14:51<peter1138>i can't even imagine how a gui to do it would look
14:52<@Bjarni>first you will need to figure out how you want the GUI for it to be, then code it and then write the actual feature
14:52<peter1138>never mind that the refit options change over time
14:53<@Bjarni>don't expect this to be coded
14:53<Digitalfox[Home]>Ok :)
14:53<Digitalfox[Home]>I understand. :(
14:53<@Bjarni>it's a huge change in the code and near impossible to fix all issues for
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15:01<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r9625 /branches/noai/ (10 files in 5 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AITileList() and one valuator for now: AITileListBuildable()
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15:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r9626 /branches/noai/ (14 files in 4 dirs):
15:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change: renamed AIList to AIAbstractList and hide 'AddItem' and 'RemoveItem'
15:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Add: added AIList to work like the old AIList
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15:32<antichaos>hmm, I just tried to register on flyspray and I got some php error messages and no confirmation email :(
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>the php errors have been there forever, but should not affect the email
15:35<antichaos>ok, maybe it's just taking some time to deliver
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15:37<willister>Anyone here who can give me a hint on the houseSpec struct?
15:37<Maedhros>what do you want to know about it?
15:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9627 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (23 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: let the squirrel export script export all needed (and a few more) types of references to structs and classes.
15:38<willister>I'm trying to work out how much passengers a perticular tile will generate. will the byte "population" tell me that?
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15:39<Sacro>willister: check the code for the query tool
15:39<peter1138>there's a whole generic function for that
15:40<willister>what file is the query tool code in?
15:40<peter1138>void GetAcceptedCargo(TileIndex tile, AcceptedCargo ac);
15:40<peter1138>generate :p
15:41<willister>ah :)
15:41<willister>I would guess the query tool is under widget or window
15:42<Maedhros>willister: have a look at line 343 in town_cmd.cpp
15:43<Maedhros>basically, you get a random number, check if it's less than the population, munge it a bit, then use that
15:44<willister>so its not fixed? its random?
15:45<willister>:) I'd expected it some be something like 1/3 or population or something
15:45<willister>ok, my ai will have to make to with estimated passengers
15:45<willister>or maxium, maybe
15:45<willister>Thanks for that
15:46<Maedhros>np :)
15:48<willister> really like this squirrel addition. Like working on AI's :)
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15:51[~]antichaos is still waiting for his email from flyspray
15:53<willister>Currently trying to bugfix my ai though... The first few seem to work well, but openttd crashes sometime after the 4th :(
15:53<willister>trying to find out when it happens, I'd think it was some array out of bounds error somewhere
15:57<@Rubidium>can't you trace it to a single call?
15:57<antichaos>it's arrived. you can all relax now ;)
15:59<willister>not yet, not using any debug tools, I'm just getting it to output text to the debug window, and working out from there :-P
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15:59<willister>when I've got all the main functions not being random, then I'll go into it fully
16:00<willister>think I only have 3 functions left that pick random points, and not calculated ones
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16:01<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9628 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (14 files):
16:01<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: missing svn:eol-style and svn:keywords
16:01<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: wrong filename for @file comments
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16:19<willister>does svn normally take 20-30 min to checkout?
16:19<willister>update sorry
16:19<Sacro>willister: no
16:20<willister>weird, must be my net
16:23<willister> have to leave it updating overnight
16:23<willister>night night all
16:23<guru3>or you're checking out too much
16:24<willister>upadating the noai branch
16:24<willister>thats it
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16:57<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9629 /branches/noai/ (48 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Codechange: move the squirrel export functions out of the API header files.
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17:16<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9630 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (ai_squirrel.cpp api/ [NoAI] -Codechange: remove now useless define.
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19:18<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9631 /branches/noai/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
19:18<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: rewrite the loading in such a manner that the NoAI branch
19:18<CIA-2>OpenTTD: gets savegame compatability for both NoAI branch savegames (from this revision
19:18<CIA-2>OpenTTD: on) as well as trunk savegames up to the revision that NoAI is synched with.
19:18<CIA-2>OpenTTD: Note: this breaks savegame loading of savegames made with the NoAI branch up to this revision.
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19:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9632 /branches/noai/src/ (64 files in 5 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync with trunk r9574:9631.
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20:20<HMage>is there a way to change vehicle breakdowns via server console?
20:21<+glx>it's a difficulty setting, so the answer is no
20:24<HMage>are there any plans to add access to that?
20:24<+glx>maybe one day
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22:14<Ailure>now if it was possible to add operating cost and hp to a vehicle without making it a engine
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 15 00:00:34 2007