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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-04-18

---Logopened Wed Apr 18 00:00:15 2007
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02:22<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9666 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Fix (r9651): end of data / column flags were reversed
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03:57<TheJosh>Hey
03:59|-|Sacro|Laptop [~ben@87.102.9.203] has joined #openttd
04:02<TheJosh>Hey who should I talk to to try and get a patch included into the nightly trunk?
04:02<Triffid_Hunter>TheJosh: I'd find the bugtracker and submit your patch
04:02<ln->No one.
04:03<Sacro|Laptop>i have a strange feeling of deja vu
04:03<ln->It won't get included. Just enjoy it yourself.
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04:04<peter1138>ln-, please kindly shut the fuck up
04:04<ln->peter1138: Sorry for being realistic.
04:04<TheJosh>Sacro: What time is it there? i thought i would try again
04:05<TheJosh>everyone was asleep last time...
04:05<Sacro|Laptop>its 10:10 here
04:06<TheJosh>when are the most devels on?
04:06<TheJosh>or should i just wait a while?
04:06<Celestar>what patch are we talking about?
04:07<Sacro|Laptop>:o zomg a Celestar
04:07<TheJosh>the cities patch http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31528
04:07<TheJosh>makes some of the towns larger when you generate a new game. you can choose how many 'cities' you want, and how much larger they should be
04:08<Celestar>TheJosh: contact Maedhros, he's doing some work on cities, city sizes and city growth at the moment.
04:08<Celestar>he's not online atm but he might be later
04:08[~]Celestar goes back to work
04:08<ln->that patch wouldn't even pass the standard pseudo-Tron filter.
04:08<TheJosh>is he already making a cities patch
04:09<TheJosh>pseudo-Tron?
04:09<Celestar>TheJosh: dunno how much he has done
04:09<TheJosh>In-: Thankyou for your encouragement
04:09<ln->indenting with spaces, etc.
04:10<ln->TheJosh: don't take it personally. and if things turn out to be easier than i predicted, you can be happy then.
04:10<TheJosh>anyway, i have to have tea now
04:11<TheJosh>i will be back
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04:25<TheJosh>back
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04:44<Maedhros>morning
04:44<TheJosh>hey
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04:52<Maedhros>hmm, bug 738 is interesting
04:52<Maedhros>it happens because IsVehicleOnBridge only checks at the height of the bridge
04:53<Maedhros>and EnsureNoVehicleOnGround only checks the ground level
04:53<Maedhros>but while a vehicle is on a sloping bridgehead it's not on the ground or at the height of the bridge :)
04:55<peter1138>heh
04:55<peter1138>is that one of the ones belugas changed? :)
04:59<Maedhros>yeah
04:59<Maedhros>so it's in -RC3 too ;)
04:59<peter1138>uh oh
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05:03<TheJosh>hi
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05:17<Smoky555>hi all
05:18<TrueBrain>hi TheJosh and Smoky555
05:19<Smoky555>i'm crazy, what's wrong? i get 9653 from svn, compile it in MS VS2005 without errors, make 2 folders with it, from first folder i run dedicated server, from another one i run client to connect to localhost and get an error "desync error" :(
05:21<peter1138>uh, cool?
05:23<Smoky555>server and client running without any newgrf files :(
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05:29<DNazarov>0.5.1-RC3 - works without errors
05:29<peter1138>there's at least one known bug :/
05:30|-|DNazarov changed nick to Smoky555
05:31<Smoky555>and .... ?
05:33<Maedhros>bug 738 applies to -RC3 as well as trunk :(
05:41<HMage>Smoky555: disable autorenew for server and client, as well as in running game via "patch autorenew 0" in dedicated server console.
05:41<HMage>it's a well known bug
05:42<peter1138>that shouldn't cause desyncs
05:42<HMage>I had those 8 hours ago on r9640
05:42<HMage>after disabling autorenew it didn't desync.
05:43<HMage>tho it's probably not the cause. the server was restarted too.
05:44<HMage>Smoky555: can you please provide the config file and steps you do to reproduce that desync?
05:45<Smoky555>"atorenew false" - in both configs. config files are default, generating with first run
05:46<HMage>does it happen on nightly builds built from the same revision?
05:46<HMage>try placing nightly builds into those 2 folders
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05:50<Smoky555>nightly builds (precompiled win32) works fine ...
05:51[~]HMage fires up msvc2005.
05:51<HMage>What revision you're trying to build?
05:51<Smoky555>9653
05:53<HMage>hold on
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06:01<peter1138>gaaaa
06:01<peter1138>my computer's on a go slow :(
06:01<peter1138>at least putty is full-speed ahead
06:01<Celestar>peter1138: didn't you want to buy a new one?
06:04|-|Morphy- changed nick to Morphy
06:04<Celestar>@openttd 738
06:04|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^away
06:05<peter1138>Celestar: this is my work pc
06:05<peter1138>} catch (System.Threading.ThreadAbortException) {
06:05<peter1138> throw;
06:05<peter1138> }
06:05<peter1138>why did i do that?
06:05<peter1138>hmm, i guess i had other code there at one point...
06:11<HMage>Smoky555: sorry for the delay. Does the desync happen on a new game or on a saved game? I've just built from scratch via msvc2005 and started dedicated, no desyncs.
06:15<Smoky555>HMage : 9655 works fine. you can take my src-pack (trunk9653 with same patches) from http://open.ttdrussia.net/download/src_trunk_9653_rp.zip
06:16<peter1138>...
06:19<HMage>Smoky555: you have a daylength patch there applied. Did you try compiling without daylength patch?
06:20<peter1138>ah, so it's patched 9653? :p
06:20<HMage>there's also signal autocomplete patch. Try building without any patches, just clean trunk r9653
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06:22<HMage>most likely the daylength patch is the cause. Since I don't remember that that patch was updated less than a few months ago.
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06:24<peter1138># HEATWAVE
06:24<HMage>btw, peter1138, how about extending name_array to hold more than 30 bytes of data per line?
06:24<HMage>err, 32*
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06:25<peter1138>_name_array needs to go :)
06:25<HMage>away you mean? :)
06:26<peter1138>yes
06:26<HMage>how about a temporary fix, because it's unbearable to have only 13 letters for russian per sign.
06:26<HMage>some words won't even fit
06:27<HMage>like, "восстановление"
06:27<Smoky555>HMage : i have this patch, peter1138 is a author ...
06:28<HMage>Smoky555: try removing all patches, just clean trunk r9653. Build from that and see if you have any desyncs.
06:28<HMage>peter1138: daylength is your patch?
06:29<peter1138>no
06:29<Smoky555>peter1138 : yes :)
06:30<HMage>Unfortunately I have to go, I'll be back at around 16:00 GMT.
06:31<HMage>Smoky555: daylength patch was written by Sacro.
06:31<HMage>Smoky555: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=20006
06:32<Smoky555>grrr.... i speak about long russian names, not daylength
06:34<peter1138>heh
06:36<HMage>Smoky555: Ah. anyway, that code you sent me compiles and desyncs. Revert into clean trunk and see if you have any desyncs.
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07:15<Sacro|Laptop>oh noes, a lolman
07:17<lolman>lies :o
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07:21<Sacro|Laptop>:o an Ammler
07:22<Ammler>?
07:22<lolman>Woah never realised Beryl was running so well :o
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07:36<TheJosh>:)
07:40<roboman>(:
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08:07<@Belugas>Maedhros, peter1138: about 738, i did not ported my fix in 0.5, so it must be something else
08:07<peter1138>someone else did, i think
08:07<@Belugas>ha... could be
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08:09<peter1138>r9584 | truelight | 2007-04-10 10:57:35 +0100 (Tue, 10 Apr 2007) | 5 lines
08:10<peter1138>[0.5] -Backport frmo trunk (r9542, r9565, r9573):
08:10<peter1138>- Fix: when checking for no vehicle on ground-tiles, don't take into account vehicles that are in the air (r9542)
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08:12<@Belugas>well...
08:12<@Belugas>another bug on my list then :(
08:12<ln->TheJosh: success?
08:12<@Belugas>i'm getting worse then bjarni :S
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08:13<@Belugas>shit!
08:14<@Belugas>i forgot my SD card at home :(
08:14<@Belugas>no work to be done today
08:14[~]Belugas cires
08:14<@Belugas>cries...
08:14<@Belugas>time for COFFEE!!
08:14<peter1138>get putty?
08:15<@Belugas>too much to learn in a simgle day :P
08:15<@Belugas>i should instead concentrate on work@work...
08:15<@Belugas>not been really productive lately ^_^
08:19<peter1138>feh!
08:28<TheJosh>ln-: There may be success, I am talking with Maedhros...a commit is on the horison
08:31<TheJosh>i think he has done more work on this then me though...
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08:41<@Belugas>when the patch is good, when it adds something usefull, generally, there is an interest.
08:41<@Belugas>when it's a fantazy not taking into account the rest of the game, don't expect it to be in
08:42<TheJosh>yeah
08:43<@Belugas>for those who are frantically looking for patch suggestions, may i suggest to look at this ? http://nightly.openttd.org/devs/logs/docs.nightly.error.log
08:43<@Belugas>those are undocumented stuff, or stuff that is not doxygen compliant
08:43<@Belugas>lots of work that is (almost) garanteed to be commit!
08:44<TheJosh>patches that simply document existing features, etc?
08:45<@Belugas>yup
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08:45<@Belugas>i've been working on clearing the list for a while
08:45<TheJosh>i have an idea for my next patch, what is your opinion. I call it 'Raised monorails' (although I will try to code generic)
08:45<@Belugas>but there is so much stuff to put in...
08:46<TheJosh>basically monorails (or other rail types) that can go above roads, etc, for use in cities
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08:48<@Belugas>would be tricky, i think... it will basically be like bridges
08:49<TheJosh>I dont quite know how to do them yet...
08:49<TheJosh>or if it would work
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08:53<@Belugas>the idea is not bad in itself. just that technically, it would be hard to implement. not to mention the fact that you will have in fact 2 monorails : ground and aerial ones
08:53<@Belugas>if i may say so
08:53<@Belugas>would involves map changes, new graphics,etc...
08:53<@Belugas>but go ahaed. who knows :)
08:53<Sacro|Laptop>hwo do you do a backtrace from a segfault?
08:54<Eddi|zuHause3>use a debug build, and run that from gdb
08:55<Sacro|Laptop>hmm, a debug build
08:55<Sacro|Laptop>how to create that...
08:56<TheJosh>Belugas: I was going to make it just the same rail, but with a flag that tells it to draw a bit higher or something...
08:56<TheJosh>still working that bit out
08:56<Eddi|zuHause3>TheJosh: you'll also need ramps and stuff
08:56<@Belugas>so it will look like floating??
08:56<@Belugas>you'd need poles, at least
08:57<TheJosh>yeah that as well
08:57<TheJosh>and ramps
08:57<peter1138>bridges
08:57<peter1138>basically like locomotion :P
08:57<@Belugas>indeed, that's waht i've said
08:57<@Belugas>well.. not the locomotion part but...
08:57<Sacro|Laptop>peter1138: i have a memory location, in SDL.lib
09:02<TheJosh>do not worry Belugas, i will probably give up on raised monorails sometime soon anyway.
09:02<TheJosh>i just thought it would be a cool idea, especially in large, hard-to-get-station-into cities
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09:03<@Belugas>i don't deny the coolness of the idea
09:03<@Belugas>just that the realisation would be... hard
09:03<@Belugas>to say the least
09:03<TheJosh>yes, i agree
09:04<TheJosh>just then i was playing with gui, and its annoying and messy, even to do somehting simple like add a single button
09:11<TheJosh>so Belugas, what do you work on the most?
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09:11<@Belugas>newindustries, doxygen stuff, making bugs...
09:12<@Belugas>and work@work too!
09:12<TheJosh>cool
09:13<TheJosh>im good at that last one.
09:16<TheJosh>is the openttd devel team looking for someone to reopen MiniIN?
09:16<TheJosh>perhaps with a slightly different structure?
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09:19<@Belugas>TheJosh : no, not really.
09:20<TheJosh>it wasnt working?
09:21<@Belugas>(most) users did not care of maintiaining their own patch, instable, confusing regular users as been a lab test for devs (which was never be the case), etc etc...
09:21<@Belugas>really hard to debug,
09:22<@Belugas>and... no
09:23<hylje>ottd totally needs a functionality plugin system :P
09:23<TheJosh>so where did all those patches we loved go?
09:23<Eddi|zuHause3>hylje: you mean like newgrf? :p
09:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: maedhros * r9667 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs):
09:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Feature: Add the concept of cities. A (configurable) proportion of towns can
09:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: start off larger, and will grow twice as quickly as other towns. They can also
09:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: be placed specifically in the scenario editor. Thanks to TheJosh for the
09:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: initial patch and the idea.
09:23<hylje>Eddi|zuHause3: newgrf for code
09:23<TheJosh>like i really really liked in MiniIN the advanced ordering
09:24<rane_>why is it that you cannot change currency to euro during the game?
09:24<rane_>i find it wird
09:24<rane_>+e
09:24<Eddi|zuHause3>miniin had some nice patches, but it was impossible to keep them up to date
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09:25<TheJosh>I will have to find some of my favourites, and bring them up or something
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09:26<@Belugas>rane_, it is possible to, if you write a grf file to change it yourself. otherwise, there is already a conversion system going on.
09:27<@Belugas>it just follows the rules....
09:27<@Belugas>look in currency.cpp
09:27<@Belugas>or something...
09:27<@Belugas>TheJosh, i can't tell you about the faith of those miniIN patches
09:28<TheJosh>the faith of a patch? huh?
09:29<peter1138>yeah, christian, muslim, catholic...
09:29[~]blathijs ventures Belugas meant fate, not faith :-)
09:29<@Belugas>oups...
09:29<@Belugas>yup
09:29<@Belugas>thanks for translating my mind :D
09:30<TheJosh>there were a few patches that made re-downloading the entire thing, everytime you want to play on the net worthwile
09:32<TheJosh>oh well
09:32<TheJosh>anyway, my patch (not really, better said my idea) is done, and Im off to bed. Thansk again maedhros for all your work, its pure brilliance!
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09:39<peter1138>a happy customer
09:40<Maedhros>indeed :)
09:42<@Belugas>NEXT!
09:43<peter1138>i need guinea pigs to test this cb36 patch
09:44<Eddi|zuHause3>what is a cb36?
09:44[~]Maedhros raises a hand
09:44<peter1138>callback 36, used to modify some properties on the fly
09:44<peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/o/callback36d.diff
09:44<Maedhros>what can i use it with? ukrs?
09:44<peter1138>(missing bit is either saving or reloading cached var on game load)
09:44<peter1138>av8
09:45<peter1138>ukrs uses it too, but i don't remember any visible effect, heh
09:45<peter1138>in av8 it affects speeds
09:45<Maedhros>ooh, nice
09:47<Ailure>hmm
09:47<Ailure>I wonder where I should post a bug report next time
09:47<Ailure>:)
09:47<Ailure>Probably the locomotion forums
09:47<Ailure>they look nice
09:47<peter1138>yes, that'll do
09:48<Ailure>I wish I knew what went through me xD
09:48<Ailure>I used the flyspray tracker before, but instead I thought "durrr let's harass the GRF author"
09:48<Eddi|zuHause3>i vote for alcohol :)
09:49<valhallasw>I vote for asperin
09:49<hylje>shrooms
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09:50<peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3: i'll whatever ale is on...
09:50<Kittysune>!logs
09:50<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
09:51<Kittysune>I blame caffeine
09:51<Kittysune>;P
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09:52<Ailure>stupid network
09:52<hylje>:o
09:52<peter1138>oh, it's you
09:52<Ailure>How are you gentlemen!
09:52<peter1138>so does anyone else want a go at the planespeed option?
09:53<Ailure>the current nightlies have the equilant of planespeed 4x on ttdpatch currently?
09:53<Ailure>At least that's the impression I got.
09:53<peter1138>not really
09:53<Ailure>hmm
09:53<peter1138>they're four times faster
09:54<peter1138>but it's done differently to how ttdpatch does it
09:54<Ailure>ah
09:54<hylje>ie. our planes go at 1:1 speed by default? ;p
09:54<Ailure>thing is that I managed to get ride of my TTD binaries with TTDpatch and all when I moved to my new computer
09:54<Ailure>So I can't really check
09:54<Ailure>(ironically I somehow managed to transfer the TTO backup I had)
09:55<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, looks like i do not even have av8...
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09:56<Ailure>hmm
09:58<Eddi|zuHause3>how do i set up a central newgrf directory that is used by all openttd versions i have?
09:58<Maedhros>symlinks
09:58<hylje>symlinks!
09:59<Ailure>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS_symbolic_link
09:59<Ailure>If you happen to be a windows user :p
09:59<Ailure>Not many who knows that it's possible on NTFS
09:59<Ailure>but it is
09:59<Eddi|zuHause3>i am not... and i do
10:00<Ailure>heh
10:00<Ailure>but I suspect symlink is there to live up to some NIX standard or something
10:00<Ailure>and it's not implented very well or somethng
10:00<Eddi|zuHause3>but wasn't the newgrf system supposed to do that without symlinking?
10:00<Maedhros>peter1138: heh, the planes in the intro screen are barely moving at all with your patch
10:01<Ailure>[newgrf]
10:01<Ailure>L:\Program\openTTD\OTTD-win32-nightly_build\data\pb_viaduct.grf
10:01<Ailure>L:\Program\openTTD\OTTD-win32-nightly_build\data\pb_av8w.grf
10:01<Ailure>L:\Program\openTTD\OTTD-win32-nightly_build\data\basic_platformsw.grf
10:01<peter1138>indeed
10:01<Ailure>well
10:01<peter1138>because it doesn't update the cached values on load
10:01<Ailure>you can just write the full file path now
10:01<Maedhros>ah, i see
10:01<peter1138>Ailure: but the gui doesn't let you do that
10:01<Ailure>Is it really that hard to like
10:02<Ailure>do it on one GUI
10:02<peter1138>(cos the gui was written to understand a single data/...)
10:02<Ailure>then copy it over for the rest?
10:02<peter1138>no
10:02<peter1138>you're better off using symlinks
10:02<Ailure>reminds me I should clean up my data folders now
10:02<Ailure>heh
10:02<Ailure>well
10:02<peter1138>because it won't find them for network games either
10:03<peter1138>or even any games. hmm.
10:03<Ailure>I have five diffrent openTTD folders xD
10:03<Ailure>each one with almost same GRF's, but copied over the folders
10:03<Ailure>hmm
10:03<Ailure>thing is that windows can be confused with some NTFS features
10:04<Ailure>saw a hilarious screenshot
10:04<peter1138>well, at some point in the future i think you may be able to specify a single directory to use
10:04<Ailure>where it reported something like 1 TB used of 30 GB
10:04<peter1138>which'll do what you want
10:04<Ailure>it was just a file being linked over and over again
10:04<peter1138>heh
10:04<Ailure>well that does make sense though
10:05<Ailure>and the custom GRF's get's hard to differ from 'core' ones
10:05<Ailure>...unless oTTD also looks for newGRFS in subfolders
10:05<hylje>:o
10:06<Eddi|zuHause3>it always looked into subfolders
10:07<Eddi|zuHause3>i always had them in data/newgrf
10:07<hylje>does ottd break if i symlink into /?
10:07<hylje>or to ../ ?
10:07<Ailure>hmm
10:07<Ailure>I see then
10:07<Eddi|zuHause3>i have no idea :)
10:08<Rubidium>hylje: yes
10:08<Rubidium>once it is out of memory
10:08<Ailure>guess that's a excuse to clean my newGRF files
10:08<Ailure>and sort them
10:08<hylje>i suppose
10:08<hylje>it's not a given to check for recursion
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10:13<DaleStan>Is there even any portable way to check a whether a FS recurses?
10:16<ln->what's a(n) FS?
10:16<hylje>file system
10:16<ln->are you sure?
10:16<hylje>rather
10:17<hylje>considering the context
10:17<ln->context = the irc channel for a computer strategy game
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10:17<hylje>at the moment context involves recursion on symlinking to a parent directory
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10:18<Maedhros>ln-: that's more the location of the discussion than the context
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10:25<eJoJ>Hmmm, I can't start my ottd, it's output is "Error: Cannot open file 'data/srgw.grf'" what could be wrong?
10:26<Maedhros>wrong file permissions?
10:28<eJoJ>Same error with root
10:28<peter1138>clear out the [newgrf] section in the config, probably
10:28<eJoJ>nothing stated under [newgrf] in the config
10:29<peter1138>hmm, newgrf-static? clutching at straws...
10:30<eJoJ>static is also blank
10:31<@Belugas><s>rgw.grf?
10:32<eJoJ>srssgw.grf
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10:49<Digitalfox>Hi :)
10:50<Digitalfox>Hello peter1138
10:50<Digitalfox>Are you thinking of supporting "action 5, feature 0x12: aqueducs. " ?
10:50<peter1138>no
10:51<Digitalfox>no ? :\
10:51<Digitalfox>You don't like this feature?
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11:22<@Belugas>i am bored
11:22<@Belugas>to the point of boredom
11:22<Digitalfox>hi belugas :)
11:22<Prof_Frink>Do something then.
11:22<Digitalfox>bored?
11:22<Digitalfox>Play open
11:23<@Belugas>hello DaleStan
11:23<@Belugas>shit...
11:23<@Belugas>hello Digitalfox
11:23<Digitalfox>lol ;)
11:23<@Belugas>sorry DaleStan
11:23<Digitalfox>No work today?
11:23<@Belugas>Prof_Frink, i cant do any ottd stuff. Forgot my sd card at home :(
11:23<@Belugas>it has everything for ottd on it
11:24<Digitalfox>oh no... One mora day for newindustries :(
11:24<Eddi|zuHause3>i take it your work work is very boring?
11:24<@Belugas>yup.
11:25<@Belugas>i have to schematize and analyse in full detail how the sku entry goes in our point of sales app.
11:25<Prof_Frink>Belugas: This is why you should do all development in vim in a screen session on a remote server
11:25<@Belugas>really boring
11:25<@Belugas>maybe...
11:25<@Belugas>too much stuff to learn on a single day :P
11:26<Prof_Frink>Vim is easy. :wq
11:26<@Belugas>plus, i'm working on WinXP. Means habits to change
11:26<Prof_Frink>Screen is easy. C-a d
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11:57<Wolf01>hello
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12:28<CIA-2>OpenTTD: miham * r9668 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt french.txt hungarian.txt korean.txt swedish.txt):
12:28<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-04-18 19:27:38
12:28<CIA-2>OpenTTD: catalan - 2 fixed by arnaullv (2)
12:28<CIA-2>OpenTTD: french - 2 fixed, 2 changed by glx (4)
12:28<CIA-2>OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 fixed by miham (2)
12:28<CIA-2>OpenTTD: korean - 2 fixed by darkttd (2)
12:28<CIA-2>OpenTTD: swedish - 2 fixed, 1 changed by daishan (3)
12:29[~]Wolf01 nods
12:29<hylje>:3
12:29<Wolf01>i'm really bored :/
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12:51<peter1138>har har
12:51<peter1138>no idea why
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12:58<dihedral>hello all
12:58<Wolf01>hi
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13:00<CIA-2>OpenTTD: belugas * r9669 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Documentation: some more doxygen fixes
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13:03<Wolf01>i want to improve ships, anybody want to help?
13:04<dihedral>i give you ideas and you code - or were you thinking of something else? :-P
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13:04<Eddi|zuHause3>improve what? usability? complexity? pathfinder optimisation?
13:04<dihedral>cpu load
13:04<ln->mobility on land?
13:04<Wolf01>i have the ideas, i can code, i can't do it without knowledge
13:05<Wolf01>maybe
13:05<Wolf01>(hovercrafts)
13:05<dihedral>what kind of 'knowledge'
13:05<dihedral>are you looking for
13:05<Eddi|zuHause3>you might want to start with the water bridges
13:05<Wolf01>something more difficult than a "for" or "if" statement
13:06<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't like the idea of hovercrafts
13:06<peter1138>hovercraft!
13:06<Eddi|zuHause3>stupid language
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13:13<dihedral>i am familiar with coding, just not c
13:15<dihedral>my packet just fell off the network stack
13:15<Eddi|zuHause3>i am familiar with theory, just not with coding
13:16<dihedral>feed us with some ideas Wolf01
13:16<Wolf01>the first is "one ship per tile"
13:17<Rubidium>that's going to be very nasty in canals/locks
13:17<Wolf01>the second is "realistic locks"
13:17<Wolf01>the third "better pathfinding"
13:17<hylje>pathfinding that works at all
13:17<dihedral>what you thinking off for "realistic locks"
13:17<hylje>slow turning?
13:18<Wolf01>maybe
13:18<Wolf01>avoid 90 degrees turns sure
13:18<dihedral>looking at the size of a ship and that of a cannal: no turning?
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13:20<Wolf01>Rubidium, if you plan to build a single tile narrow canal for double ways ship traffic you are wrong... you should think canals like track tiles, i think you don't use a single track for double way traffic and without signals
13:20<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9670 /trunk/src/ (station_map.cpp tunnel_map.cpp unmovable_map.h void_map.h): -Documentation: add documentation to some the _map files.
13:20[~]Wolf01 should have dinner
13:20|-|Wolf01 changed nick to Wolf01|AWAY
13:20<dihedral>hehehe
13:20<dihedral>Rubidium: quite true
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13:21<Eddi|zuHause3>Wolf01|AWAY: but you have no way of forcing directions on water tile, like you can on track tiles with signals
13:21<hylje>yet
13:21<Eddi|zuHause3>so you can end up with 4 ships
13:22<Eddi|zuHause3>-> <-
13:22<Eddi|zuHause3>-> <-
13:22<Eddi|zuHause3>blocking each other
13:22<hylje>canals might need signals
13:23<dihedral>yes
13:23<dihedral>how about a tool to draw a water route
13:23<dihedral>which would work like rail tracks, just not visible to other players
13:23<hylje>and make water routes like railroad
13:23<hylje>brilliant
13:24<Rubidium>Wolf01|AWAY: well, in the NL they do run trains on single track without signals...
13:26<Rubidium>(something with maintainance some 4 weeks ago went horribly wrong and the signalling still doesn't work on that piece of track)
13:28<Rubidium>(oh, I shouldn't forget to tell that the maintainance was planned to take 2 days)
13:29<dihedral>btw guys, had a little odd situation today on one of the game servers
13:30|-|Wolf01|AWAY changed nick to Wolf01
13:30<dihedral>one town
13:30<dihedral>2 facktories
13:30<dihedral>with the exact same name
13:30<dihedral>2 players delivering to one factory each
13:30<dihedral>but only one factory was showing the iron and the goods
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13:31<dihedral>sorry - the steal
13:31<dihedral>and the goods
13:32<Wolf01>[20:24:04] <hylje> and make water routes like railroad
13:32<Wolf01>i was thinking about using buoys and draw a thick line to show where the ship will travel, not the exact path, but neither the bird fly path
13:33<hylje>:o
13:33<Wolf01>locks should have signals, maybe you can place signals on them like on the tracks
13:34<Wolf01>and if you use 2 tiles wide canals you don't have problems with ships
13:34<Wolf01>i offten use 2 locks and 2 buoys to tell which lock a ship should take
13:35<hylje>:o
13:35<Wolf01>and the most important thing: rename buoys!!!!!
13:35<Eddi|zuHause3>Wolf01: like i already said, you have no means to prevent 2 ships from driving next to each other
13:35<hylje>sea signals
13:35<hylje>buoys
13:35<Wolf01>yes, but if you have enough room it is not a big problem
13:35<dihedral>afk
13:36<Wolf01>is like when some newbies try to use 4 trains with a single track line with only double ways signals
13:36<Wolf01>they will get stuck
13:37<Wolf01>you have to transpose this think to ships
13:37<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9671 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: Implement NewGRF callback 36, which allows changing of various properties which were previously static. Vehicle max speed and train power/te/running costs are adjustable.
13:37<hylje>while you're at it, do the same for road vehicles
13:38<hylje>one-way roads plz
13:38<Wolf01>yes, this was another point i wanted to improve
13:39<Wolf01>but when i asked for help i got no response and so i left
13:39|-|HMage`afk changed nick to HMage
13:39<hylje>but do the boats first
13:39<hylje>boats are way more useless than RVs
13:39<peter1138>i had a patch somewhere to implement multistop for ships
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13:40<hylje>i think the most elegant way to do waterways is to have buoy-connected straight paths, also diagonal
13:40<hylje>the buoys could be double-way or one-way as signals are
13:42<Wolf01>Frostregen once did more docks per station when i was working with him at the distant join patch, but we never tried if it really worked
13:55<Eddi|zuHause3>how about this: place buoys in between tiles, and reserve two paths between them, one on the right and one on the left
13:56<Eddi|zuHause3>this would also mean, ships will not go "over" the buoys anymore, but actually pass them
13:58<peter1138>has to be turn on and offable, heh
13:58<hylje>ships would become ridiculously small then
13:58<Eddi|zuHause3>hylje: what? there was no change in ships in there...
13:59<Eddi|zuHause3>ships would still be 1 tile wide
13:59<hylje>ah
13:59<hylje>in between
13:59<hylje>that could work
13:59<hylje>if you mean the buoys would mark waterways much like railroad
14:01<Eddi|zuHause3>well, i read the intention of Wolf01 as follows: buoys mark the end points of waterway segments, and the paths inbetween are fixed (automatically) as a more or less straight line
14:01<hylje>yes
14:01<hylje>i'd not make it too intelligent
14:01<Eddi|zuHause3>ship pathfinding would then reduce to buoy hopping
14:01<hylje>and make it just mark straight lines
14:02<Eddi|zuHause3>well, "straight" is not a very good concept in tile based space
14:04<Eddi|zuHause3>you could say something like "max. 2 45° turns"
14:05<Eddi|zuHause3>max. 1 should be easier
14:05<hylje>perhaps
14:05<Eddi|zuHause3>but that might cause problems on canals/rivers with a lot of corners
14:06<hylje>people could be expected to put down more buoys there
14:07<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, but people putting buoys on every 2nd tile could kinda defeat the purpose of simplifying things
14:07<hylje>thats their choice
14:07<Wolf01>docks might be handled like tracks with all track segments in one tile
14:07<Wolf01>*canals
14:07<Wolf01>s/docks/canals
14:07<Eddi|zuHause3>Wolf01: i believe renaming buoys is just a matter of correctly handling buoy owners
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14:14<Wolf01>hello MeusH
14:14<MeusH>heyahello
14:14<MeusH>hey Wolf01, have you made some new patches? :)
14:15<Wolf01>i'm crying here and poking some people to get an help for my next work :)
14:15<MeusH>what kind of work?
14:16<Wolf01>i'm planning to improve a bit the ships
14:16<MeusH>wow, that's great
14:16<MeusH>do you have some more details somewherre?
14:16<Wolf01>you can read the logs, all i've thought is all here :D
14:16<MeusH>well, you could help me a bit - to describe newest features. could you?
14:17<Wolf01>i'll try :)
14:18<MeusH>seems there are new types of towns, called Cities
14:18<MeusH>is that right?
14:18<MeusH>for example here:
14:18<MeusH>Proportion of towns that will become cities
14:19<MeusH>what the difference between cities and towns?
14:19<hylje>cities grow faster
14:19<Wolf01>yep
14:20<MeusH>thanks
14:21<MeusH>brb
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14:37<Wolf01>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/New_Ships i got the idea to improve the ships from here :P
14:37<Wolf01>and i was thinking some others improvements
14:38<Wolf01>i think the reserved path in front of a ship is not difficult to code, but i think also that it will use more cpu
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15:01<MeusH>Wolf01, regarding towns and cities: does "Town growth speed:" mean that towns do grow, and cities do not (or their growth is not under control)?
15:01<Wolf01>both should grow
15:02<Wolf01>but cities more quickly
15:04<MeusH>hmm
15:04<MeusH>well, I don't really get it :(
15:04<MeusH>the patch allows player to change groth rate of cities/town/villages/whatever you call it, right?
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15:05<MeusH>and the other thing is adding a "city" that has different parameters than "town"?
15:07<hylje>some grf maker should make a ship with a rowing excavator
15:08<hylje>(ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9GOJt5mRIg)
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15:13<MeusH>haha that owns :D
15:14<hylje>do it! :D
15:15<Eddi|zuHause3>MeusH: "cities" always grow twice as fast as "towns"
15:15<MeusH>aha, thank you :)
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15:32<MeusH>are cities going to be somehow marked to be distinguished from casual towns, soon?
15:32<eJoJ>Is it no ways to seperate them ingame now?
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15:33<MeusH>dobry wieczór Sacro :)
15:35<Sacro>MeusH: eh?
15:35<MeusH>good evening dude :)
15:37<Sacro>evening MeusH
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16:02<@Belugas>bye bye
16:02<Digitalfox[Home]>bye
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16:15<Sacro>ZOMG
16:16<Sacro>USER PATCH MERGING?
16:16<peter1138>lies
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16:19<MeusH>bye
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16:22<eJoJ>Why does the fast speed option run at variable speed?
16:25<Eddi|zuHause3>fast forward goes as fast as your CPU can handle
16:25<Eddi|zuHause3>if there is more to calculate, it is going slower
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16:26<ln->does it even do a sched_yield() ever?
16:26<Wolf01>night
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16:27<eJoJ>Eddi|zuHause3 is it a command to make a dedicated server go in fast mode?
16:27<Eddi|zuHause3>i do not think it is possible in multiplayer
16:28<Eddi|zuHause3>because it is impossible to synchronise
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16:44<peter1138>not so
16:44<peter1138>the server provides the 'clock' in multiplayer mode
16:46<peter1138>somehow :p
16:53<peter1138>i can't see how now
16:53<peter1138>ne'r mind
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17:01<Rubidium>it's just that every client has to run (much) faster than the server, otherwise they will never catch up when joining
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17:10<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9672 /trunk/src/ (62 files in 9 dirs): -Cleanup: lots of coding style fixes around operands.
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17:41<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9673 /trunk/src/ (21 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: remove spaces before tabs and replace non-indenting tabs with spaces.
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18:11<Sacro>oh noes
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19:16<Sacro>!logs
19:16<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
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20:34<UndernotBuilder>so for when we will have a openttd:// syntax?
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21:21<@Belugas>stange comment, UndernotBuilder
21:22<@Belugas>too bad you're not there to explain that a little bit :S
21:26<roboman>Ive heard of people talk about having openttd use a openttd:/ syntax for mp. dunno why. maybe to allow anyone to write a program that could easily join an mp game
21:29<@Belugas>i still don't kow whta that's mean :(
21:29<@Belugas>what is a openttd:/ sintax??
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21:40<eJoJ>It means like a hyperlink, you press f.eks openttd://ipaddress.to.server.and:port and it automaticly launches the game and connect to the server
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21:47<@Belugas>ho
21:47<@Belugas>mmh
21:48<@Belugas>and it's so vital??
21:48<@Belugas>seems like a bit laziness to me :S
21:49<@Belugas>anyway...
21:50<@Belugas>i hope he can find someone to give him a patch for that
21:50<@Belugas>as for me, going to snore
21:50<@Belugas>bye
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---Logclosed Thu Apr 19 00:00:09 2007