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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-04-20

---Logopened Fri Apr 20 00:00:19 2007
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00:54<peter1138>and hello again
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02:03<ln->don't tell me there's still 30°C in germany?
02:04<SpComb>there was 30°C here on the 14th
02:05<ln->and 50°C here last summer, but let's not count the cases when the sun hits the sensor.
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02:07<roboman>is there such thing as diagonal bridges?
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02:07<ln->have you ever seen a diagonal bridge in real life?
02:08<ln->see, they cannot exist.
02:08<roboman>I read someone said it in a thread
02:08<roboman>I assume they meant bridges over everythin
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02:14<roboman>although IRL it depends what you call diagonal as RL isnt bound by square boxes
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02:30<peter1138>bit slow there roboman :p
02:41<boekabart_>why would diagonal bridges not exist in real life? isn't every fly-over a diagonal bridge?
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02:42<Rubidium>or, when it is actually true, we support (some) diagonal bridges in OTTD
02:49<peter1138>boekabart_: IRL, bridges are just bridges...
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02:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9682 /trunk/src/ (saveload.cpp saveload.h): -Codechange: Add support for saving/loading std::lists containing object references (REF_*)
02:51<boekabart_>lol. anyway: are there any plans for diagonal bridges in ottd?
02:54<Eddi|zuHause3>i would call that "dream", not "plan"
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03:00<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9683 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix [FS#423]: improved loading does not use a huge amount of processing power anymore when having a lot of trains.
03:02|-|Taikaponi changed nick to Zavior
03:03<SpComb>omg ponies
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03:59<Eddi|zuHause3>somehow "Taiga" and "Pony" do not really mix...
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04:36<boekabart_>anyone here who knows (a lot) about canals and the map-array?
04:36<boekabart_>Q: wondering what the thing is with ownership: is the owner of a canal tile OWNER_WATER, yes, no or sometimes?
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04:44<peter1138>it used to be, but now it's not.
04:45[~]roboman remembers on Brianetta's Starndard when he went broke and had a cala wit a dock on it that weh deleted caused the city to be submerged
04:46<boekabart_>in the startup game, it still is
04:49<peter1138>boekabart_, yes, because retroactively changing the owner is not really possible
04:49<peter1138>because... you don't know who the owner is...
04:50<boekabart_>i think you can: if owner water and height > 0 shouldn't be owned by water
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04:50<boekabart_>ah , problem is : if not water, then who?
05:00<Rubidium>the person who has paid for making it water
05:01<peter1138>boekabart_, exactly
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05:01<peter1138>Rubidium: yes, but not when converting old games, heh
05:02<Rubidium>nope, then it's always water ;)
05:03<boekabart_>yeah, which sucks
05:04<Rubidium>there is no way to know who has paid for those canals (anymore), so it will always suck
05:04<peter1138>but not majorly
05:05<peter1138>i don't generally replay old games...
05:06<boekabart_>well you do every time you start up the game
05:06<peter1138>yeah but who gives a shit about that?
05:07<boekabart_>either no-one or everyone who starts up the game
05:07<peter1138>you don't play it, it just sits there running itself
05:07<boekabart_>so, every recent game has canal owner to someone, not water
05:08<boekabart_>how about canals built in scenario editor?
05:08<peter1138>owner_none probably
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05:14<Rubidium>typically someone from England ;)
05:14<Rubidium>anyway, morning Maedhros
05:14<Maedhros>morning Rubidium
05:15<Maedhros>Rubidium: in r6983, why are vehicles added to the loading_vehicles list in Vehicle::LeaveStation?
05:16<Maedhros>also, v->LeaveStation doesn't seem to be called for aircraft anywhere
05:17<Rubidium>oops ;), Maedhros can you fix it?
05:17<peter1138>.remove(this) i guess
05:17<peter1138>i could but i've got a ton of other changes in there :(
05:18<Maedhros>ok :)
05:21<peter1138>hmm, and do you know where to put LeaveStation for aircraft?
05:22<Maedhros>judging by all the others, it should be at the end of HandleAircraftLoading in aircraft_cmd.cpp
05:22<Maedhros>although i have a feeling more calls need to be added for when vehicles leave the station for other reasons
05:23<Maedhros>like going to the depot, or having the order changed manually
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06:06<CIA-2>OpenTTD: maedhros * r9684 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp):
06:06<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Fix (r9683): Remove vehicles from the station loading list instead of adding
06:06<CIA-2>OpenTTD: them again when they leave, and add a v->LeaveStation() call for aircraft.
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06:06<Maedhros>as far as i can tell, it's just forcing vehicles to go the depot that doesn't call v->LeaveStation now
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06:20<peter1138>skipping does the right thing?
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06:23<Maedhros>it seems to, as does deleting the current order, but i haven't worked out how yet
06:27[~]Sacro reads rail_cmd.cpp
06:29<Sacro> return 15 + 8 + (tileh == SLOPE_STEEP_W ? 4 : 0
06:32<Brianetta>I have inherited a gold pen
06:32<Brianetta>It's an heirloom
06:33<Rubidium>nice, does it write in gold too?
06:33<Brianetta>It writes in whatever you fill it with
06:33<Brianetta>Currently, blue-black Quink
06:34<Brianetta>It started off black, but apparently it was last filled from two bottles
06:36<boekabart_>How about this:
06:36<Maedhros>does this look sensible?
06:37<Maedhros>i can't think of any other things that cause vehicles to leave stations
06:37<peter1138>looks reasonable
06:38<peter1138>boekabart_, lol
06:39<boekabart_>wait, i'll add the diff to the page
06:39<CIA-2>OpenTTD: maedhros * r9685 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r9683): Call v->LeaveStation() when a vehicle in a station is sent to a depot.
06:39<peter1138>boekabart_, i think it should raise the tile corners, in the last picture
06:39<peter1138>hmm, maybe
06:39<peter1138>it looks a bit weird :/
06:39<boekabart_>peter1138: no, tried that, really complicated plus deep sea is cooler.
06:40<peter1138>yeah, i realised that wouldn't allow deep sea :/
06:40<boekabart_>now you're not able to tunnel under deep see, need to raise sea floor 1 level
06:41<peter1138>where's the diff? :p
06:41<boekabart_>so the scenario can have un-tunnable sea (tunnelable after big investment :) ) and tunnelable sea
06:42<peter1138>yeah, what happens when terraforming deep sea?
06:42<boekabart_>nothing at first, only after 2nd level you see it
06:42<Brianetta>It should cost a f***load.
06:42<boekabart_>well it does i guess, let me test
06:42<Brianetta>No, additional f***loads
06:43<Brianetta>Disproportionately expensive job.
06:43<peter1138>problem is it makes the normal sea look totally flat
06:43<peter1138>and the deep sea looks like how it should be normally
06:43<peter1138>is deeper deep sea possible?
06:44<boekabart_>yes, sea level can be raised up to 15
06:44<Brianetta>I think deep floods should propagate more quickly
06:44<Brianetta>If the sea's higher than a polder, rather than level with it, and the dyke breaks... flush!
06:45<boekabart_>Brianetta: should be doable
06:45<Brianetta>boekabart_: With the additional benefit that the hovering sea effect isn't so bad
06:45<Brianetta>because it's over so quickly
06:45<boekabart_>hovering sea effect can be less sucky if we make the sprite transparent
06:46<boekabart_>by the way lowering also works, land dries up slowly.
06:46<Brianetta>or use house foundations (:
06:46<boekabart_>yes, NICE idea! :)
06:46<boekabart_>(old water-owned canals dry up now, by the way, if > sea level)
06:46<Brianetta>Get some custom ones drawn that look like frothy waves
06:47<boekabart_>actually, the brown ground is drawn just to get rid of black holes
06:47<boekabart_>i'll request 'waterwall' sprites on the forum
06:47<Brianetta>Why not draw water under there?
06:47<boekabart_>doesn't look good
06:48<Brianetta>I see you tried it (:
06:48<boekabart_>plus, you need the slopes
06:48<Brianetta>yes, of course
06:48<peter1138>you've added a *huge* comment? :p
06:48<Brianetta>So, if you raise water level, do you get a brown border at the bottom of the map?
06:49<boekabart_>huge comment: yes, that was the raising-terrain code i think
06:49<boekabart_>of course i need to clean up the patch
06:49<peter1138>new disaster...
06:49<peter1138>global warming... rising sealevel...
06:49<boekabart_>very bad disaster
06:49<boekabart_>should be announced a couple of months in advance, right?
06:49<Brianetta>peter1138: Disasters should be triggerable from console (:
06:49<boekabart_>current UI: scenario editor, raise/lower tile 0,0 (upper corner)
06:50<Brianetta>It'd be cool if a server admin could request a recession, for example
06:50<boekabart_>or a flood if all the players are sinners
06:50<Brianetta>A drought could lower the sea level
06:50<boekabart_><0 is not possible, uint ....
06:50<Brianetta>Well, default it to 2 or something
06:51<Brianetta>The TGP has a "sea level" setting
06:51<Brianetta>You could adjust that to match at generation time
06:51<boekabart_>tgp =?
06:51<Brianetta>Terragenesis Perlin
06:51<Brianetta>The landscape generator
06:51<boekabart_>right. anyway currently WATERLEVEL is deffed as TileHeight((TileIndex)0)
06:52<peter1138>should be a separate setting
06:52<boekabart_>would like a separate setting
06:52<Brianetta>I still think it'd be nice to have differing water levels
06:52<Brianetta>so you could do lakes on hills, reservoirs, etc
06:52<peter1138>that's more tricky...
06:52<boekabart_>well you can
06:53<Brianetta>boekabart_: People will start to want to bear your children if you do that
06:53<boekabart_>ah no you can't now.
06:53<boekabart_>would have to change the drying up code for that
06:54<Brianetta>Drying up would really need "boggy ground" tiles
06:54<Brianetta>so that it could happen in stages
06:54<boekabart_>waterlevel info per tile?
06:54<Brianetta>You know how grass grows back in stages?
06:54<Brianetta>Water should dry up in stages too
06:55<boekabart_>it does
06:55<boekabart_>but the 'if' now is: if water (not canal) and height > sealevel then dryup
06:55<boekabart_>should be neighbor related.
06:55<boekabart_>or so
06:55<Brianetta>but dryup is instant?
06:56<boekabart_>lowering sea-level-sprite is instant-instant
06:57<boekabart_>turning in to land is done in tileLoop
06:57<boekabart_>anyway it was meant to be set in scenario editor and not changed after
06:59<boekabart_>ah by the way, i don't think drawing the water with DrawGroundSprite is all that correct if it's floating.
06:59<boekabart_>any idea how to do it better?
07:00<peter1138>x = 0, y = 0, w = 16, h = 16, dz = 0, z = sealevel? or maybe sealevel - tileheight
07:03<boekabart_>setting the last z doesn't work
07:04<boekabart_>... but setting ti->z to WATERLEVEL temporarily works
07:09<peter1138>maybe it's dz then... i can't remember :(
07:09<peter1138>d would be delta though...
07:09<peter1138>try it
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07:16<boekabart_> AddSortableSpriteToDraw( SPR_FLAT_WATER_TILE, PAL_NONE, ti->x, ti->y, 16, 16, 0, ti->z + dz );
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07:36<Sacro> :\
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07:45<hnsn>hi fellow ottd player
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08:08<Maedhros>hey Belugas
08:08<@Belugas>hello Maedhros
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08:13<peter1138>Belugas Belugas Belugas
08:16<@Belugas>#Someone's screaming my name
08:16<@Belugas>#Come and make me Holy again
08:16<@Belugas>#I'm the man on the Silver Mountain
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08:17<boekabart_>peter1138: updated site
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08:17<boekabart_>and posted on
08:17<peter1138>nooo! secret feature :/
08:17<boekabart_>gotta go, later
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08:18<peter1138>but tho...
08:18<peter1138>those defines should not be defines
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10:04<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9686 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Update a couple of NewGRF TTDPatch flags
10:04<Sacro|Laptop>:o newsomethings?
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10:09<antichaos>peter1138 does newcarogs allow a grf to completely change the existing cargos, such that st->goods[CT_PASSENGERS] might not refer to a passengers at all?
10:15<peter1138>avoid using CT_*, basically, except CT_INVALID.
10:21<Eddi|zuHause3>Sacro|Laptop: rofl @ underground ;)
10:24<Sacro|Laptop>Eddi|zuHause3: hehe, i thought so
10:25<hylje>silly germans
10:25<peter1138>oh, that pic
10:25<@Belugas>Sacro|Laptop ain't a german...
10:26<Sacro|Laptop>Belugas: ich bin ein berliner
10:26<peter1138>Belugas! SLUSH!
10:27<@Belugas>desole, j'comprends pas un mot d'allemand
10:27<@Belugas>slush ... brrrr
10:27<Eddi|zuHause3>some of the translations are really funny :)
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10:36<SpComb>hmm... so many places have their logs online these days
10:37[~]SpComb needs to dust off SpBotII, fix it and start using it some day Real Soon (tm)
10:37<SpComb>configureable timestamp! Timezones! Funky AJAX magic!
10:38<peter1138>but it's tedious
10:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: miham * r9687 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
10:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-04-20 17:51:25
10:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: romanian - 2 fixed by kneekoo (2)
10:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 9 fixed by Fishingsnow (9)
10:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: slovak - 2 fixed by lengyel (2)
10:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: slovenian - 2 fixed by Necrolyte (2)
10:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 2 changed by xbddc (2)
10:53<Eddi|zuHause3>who needs all those languages?
10:54<@MiHaMiX>Eddi|zuHause3: a whole lot of users... if you're not interested, don't use it, but please don't make rude or offensive remarks
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11:17<Sacro|Laptop>oh noes
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11:19<Eddi|zuHause3>you killed him!
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11:29<Wolf01>hello lolman
11:29<lolman>Ello Wolf01
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11:56<CIA-2>OpenTTD: bjarni * r9688 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_cmd.cpp engine.cpp engine.h): -Codechange: Created a function to get default cargo type for a cargo type
11:57<peter1138>default cargo type for a cargo type?
11:57<@Bjarni>for engines
11:57[~]Bjarni hides
11:57<@Bjarni>EngineIDs in fact
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11:58<peter1138>you did a me
11:58<peter1138>and mucked up your commit message :D
11:59<peter1138>now to try boekabart's patch
11:59<hylje>link again to it
11:59<hylje>i failed to fetch it
11:59<@Bjarni>what patch?
11:59<hylje>its a sikrit
12:00<hylje>oh noes
12:06<peter1138>hmm, not sure how this is supposed to work
12:07<Progman>what does "dbg: [misc] NUM_SSD_STACK too small" mean?
12:08<peter1138>too many signals
12:08<peter1138>in a block
12:08<Progman>ou, that could be the reason for a crash...
12:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: bjarni * r9689 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix: Clone vehicles will no longer refit for free
12:09<hylje>how does the sealevel patch work
12:13<Eddi|zuHause3>this time for real?
12:14<@Bjarni>I think so
12:14<@Bjarni>I didn't hack it. I added an estimated cost instead
12:15<@Bjarni>the previous time was a dirty hack
12:15<@Bjarni>(because I didn't do it :p )
12:15<@Bjarni>basically I made use of a function I added after I wrote cloning
12:16<@Bjarni>and it would be really tricky to do without it
12:16<@Bjarni>the previous attempt hacked to accept that the estimated cost guess was wrong, which ended up with some not so nice side effects
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12:18<@Bjarni>well, with my luck, some insane newGRF can figure out how to break this, but it worked with everything I tested it with
12:19<@Bjarni>it's your job to figure out which one of the many grf sets that are insane enough to trigger such an event ;)
12:19<@Bjarni>(which would likely be an 'res == res2' assert)
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12:23<dihedral>hello there
12:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9690 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Update another couple of NewGRF TTDPatch flags
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12:23<@Bjarni>hi dihedral
12:24<dihedral>rememer yesterday's topic (gradual and improved loading)?
12:25<dihedral>well - we figured out that when 'full load' is not enabled in the order, multiple trains load at the same time
12:25<dihedral>just thought i'd let you guys know :-)
12:26<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9691 /trunk/src/saveload.cpp: -Fix (r9683): Forgotten savegame bump...
12:26<peter1138>dihedral: yeah, we knew that
12:26<Eddi|zuHause3>i did not know that...
12:26<dihedral>no-fair :-P
12:26<dihedral>i feel so happy
12:26<peter1138>neither did i. i though i'd make it up
12:27<hylje>i think we have full load+gradual load working in openttdcoop
12:27<hylje>we just disabled FIFO
12:27<dihedral>but fifo is not a patch option right?
12:27<Eddi|zuHause3>it's not even real FIFO, hylje
12:27<peter1138>improved loading, sort off...
12:27<hylje>Eddi|zuHause3: wtf is it then
12:27<dihedral>sort of fifo is not really fifo
12:28<dihedral>how about calling it cuo_fifo
12:28<dihedral>(closing up on)
12:28<Eddi|zuHause3>something like "lowest id, first out", but i am not really sure
12:28<peter1138>well we now have a list
12:29<peter1138>when a vehicle enters the station it is pushed to the end of the list
12:29<peter1138>could be used to do the fifo
12:29<Rubidium>peter1138: isn't it fifo since 9683?
12:29<peter1138>might even work now, heh
12:29<dihedral>how hard would it be to add a little something to ignore one players actions?
12:29<peter1138>Rubidium: did that actually make it a fifo, or just speed it up?
12:29<hylje>dihedral: its called spectator mode
12:30<Rubidium>well, it did speed it up, but I'm not 100% sure it made it fifo
12:30<peter1138>Rubidium, sadly, i'm trying to think of other places i could use SLE_LST :/
12:30<dihedral>hylje: i mean as an admin, run a rcon command that would from there on refuse a players actions
12:31<dihedral>i mentioned my thoughts on the current banning system more that once
12:32<dihedral>and having to pause an entire game just because of one guy is not as nice i think
12:32<Rubidium>peter1138: with improved load _and_ the full-load flag turned on it is fifo, otherwise it ain't
12:32<peter1138>so we just need to fix the improved loading / gradual loading bug
12:33<hylje>it's indeed a feature
12:33<dihedral>why does it then not work fifo style when the 'full load' order is not given?
12:33<hylje>because the trains leave automagically when they dont get any more load
12:33<peter1138>dihedral: are you playing a version since r9683?
12:33<dihedral>i am playing only the latest official stable
12:33<hylje>full load means the trains wait for full load no matter what
12:33<peter1138>oh, misread :P
12:34<peter1138>but ... latest stable? yuck
12:34<hylje>thus fifo is useless on non-full load conditions
12:34<dihedral>i play latest stable because of the game servers
12:34<peter1138>hylje: not necessarily
12:34<Eddi|zuHause3>well, if you already have a list, you need to retrieve the remaining capacity of the first train, and look if there is "spare" cargo
12:34<Rubidium>yeah, 0.5.0... it's so ancient ;)
12:35<dihedral>compared to trunk ? yeah it is
12:35<dihedral>but that is what most normal players play
12:35<Eddi|zuHause3>for each loading step, you have to cycle each vehicle anyway
12:35<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: true, but ... when you rework the loading algorithms completely, you can do it much nicer
12:36<Eddi|zuHause3>so additionally calculate a "remaining cargo" that is the previous remaining cargo, minus the just loaded cargo, minus the remaining capacity of the vehicle
12:36<Eddi|zuHause3>and stop loading if remaining cargo = 0
12:37<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: true, but for _every_ wagon/vehicle you want to load you have to calculate that value if you simply hack it into the current system.
12:37<Eddi|zuHause3>for each loading cycle, you initiali[sz]e remaining cargo with the currently available cargo
12:37<Rubidium>what is much better is just iterating over the 'fifo' queue of each of the stations
12:38<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: do you know how the current loading stuff is coded?
12:38|-|Sacro|Laptop [~ben@adsl-87-102-15-154.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:38<Eddi|zuHause3>not really :)
12:38<Eddi|zuHause3>i guess i'd rather not want to know :)
12:39<Rubidium>it basically needs to be rewritten from scratch to support fifo and gradual loading and improved loading properly
12:40<peter1138>gah, stupid assert
12:40<peter1138>the one in Vehicle::LeaveStation
12:40<peter1138>triggers if a station gets flooded
12:41<Eddi|zuHause3>but what it probably should work like would be: for each (train) { for each (wagon) { if (remaining > 0) {load(min(load_amount, remaining)); calculate remaining; } } }
12:42<dihedral>how about splitting cargo up at the station into tracks too?
12:42<Rubidium>yes, but that isn't the way it happens right now
12:43<dihedral>you know how much cargo fits into a waggon
12:43<dihedral>and you know how many waggons fit into one tile
12:43<dihedral>and you know how long that station is
12:43<Eddi|zuHause3>oh, and when the train does not have "full load" on, skip the capacity for the "remaining" variable
12:44<Eddi|zuHause3><dihedral> and you know how many waggons fit into one tile <- i doubt that
12:44<Eddi|zuHause3>newgrf wagons can have different length
12:44<dihedral>hehe - and with that more gargo?
12:45<dihedral>so the amount of cargo -> tile stayes the same, or not?
12:45<dihedral>clears that thought :-P
12:48<dihedral>btw. it would be nice to have a few more console commands for dedicated servers :-)
12:50<dihedral>e.g. setting a companies password, display the game date (useful for when connected via ssh),
12:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9692 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r9683): don't try to remove vehicles from the queue of a non-existing station.
12:52|-|Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:53<+glx>you can set company password via console, but only the player can do it
12:55<dihedral>yeah - but it has often happened that a player asked me if i could reset his password as he forgot it
12:55<dihedral>which IMHO is his tough luck, but it would still be nice
12:55<Eddi|zuHause3>you can probably change the password handling locally without breaking multiplayer
12:56<hylje>patched server ftw :p
12:56<hylje>for the win
12:57<dihedral>whats wrong with a patched server?
12:57<hylje>nothing, its just somewhat evil :P
12:58<dihedral>depends on the patch and the admin
12:58<hylje>because a server can do a lot of things
12:58<dihedral>sure can
12:58|-|Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
12:58<dihedral>i run my servers patched
12:58<hylje>iirc you can demolish anything from server
12:58<hylje>given you have a way of doing it
12:58<lolman>Oh noes
12:58<Sacro>lolman: ah ha
12:59<Eddi|zuHause3>hylje: some actions will probably instantly desync every client
12:59<dihedral>desyncs - good topic
13:00<dihedral>yesterday someone connected and got a desync before the game even unpaused :-(
13:00<hylje>grf :p
13:00<dihedral>but i though you could not connect if you had different grf's included than the server
13:01<hylje>not sure about that
13:01<Eddi|zuHause3>dihedral: that description is totally useless without a reproduceable case
13:01<hylje>the grfs are in the savegame, and the savegame gets handed over after you join the server
13:01<Eddi|zuHause3>i.e savegame, and list of actons
13:01<dihedral>i know - but what kind of reproducable stuff can i give you
13:01[~]Sacro gets visions of bukkake
13:01<dihedral>as the player had no chance of doing any actions
13:01<dihedral>and any savegame would also not have included that player
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13:02<dihedral>game was paused, then desync, then unpause - or something like that
13:03<Rubidium>dihedral: something like a savegame that you can load in the server and when the client joins around day Y it desync
13:03<dihedral>that must be a lot of hard testing to find a desync
13:03<Rubidium>dihedral: the server isn't paused when the savegame is being transferred I believe
13:04<dihedral>is on
13:04<dihedral>hence -> <dihedral> game was paused, then desync, then unpause - or something like that
13:05<dihedral>i was watching via ssh
13:05<dihedral>pretty sad :-P
13:05<dihedral>o know that is not very helpful
13:10<peter1138>ok, got this sealevel patch going...
13:10<peter1138>modified a lot though :p
13:10<hylje>thats great
13:12<peter1138>though... terraforming under water is freaky
13:12<Eddi|zuHause3>deep water should probably get darker colour
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13:13<Eddi|zuHause3>under water slopes could then be fading between the colours
13:14<hylje>ooo the 32-bit colour gets some use
13:14<dihedral>q: has there been some performance work on rc3?
13:14<dihedral>or better "included in rc3"
13:15<Rubidium>read the changelog
13:15<Rubidium>but the answer is yes
13:15<dihedral>why is it that i never think of that myself?
13:16<hylje>32-bit water tiles would be some serious awesome :o
13:16<dihedral>just was wondering
13:16<Rubidium>(only for AIs though)
13:16<dihedral>my dedicated server is running at 3.3 % CPU compared to the 14% of RC2
13:16<dihedral>we... - anyhow - makes me happy
13:20<peter1138>i can wipe out tons with sea level set to 2
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13:28<dihedral>and what is that?
13:29<dihedral>look like an ai is at work to someone who only playes stables
13:30<scia>peter1138: that is black magic :D
13:31<hylje>dihedral: tunnels and below-water terrain
13:31<dihedral>i saw that on the last screeny
13:31<dihedral>but in this one i dont...
13:32<Thomas[NL]>interesting pics:
13:33<Thomas[NL]>tourists-cargo :o
13:36|-|Sacro_ [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
13:36<@Bjarni>peter1138: about that water screenshot. What happens if you flood the tunnels?
13:36<Thomas[NL]>I see some kind of diagonal station :o
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13:36<peter1138>they disappear
13:36<hylje>what if there is a train inside
13:36<@Bjarni>I meant about the hole in the ground
13:37<@Bjarni>and this will be really unsafe if all other players in MP can just flood your rails
13:37<dihedral>so what is that second pic showing peter1138 .... i am sorry but i dont see more than reforming terrain
13:38<Thomas[NL]>The damage a flood did I guess
13:38<peter1138>the affects of sealevel rising and falling
13:38<peter1138>or a flod, heh
13:38<peter1138>FLOOD :/
13:38<Thomas[NL]> mockup?
13:39<peter1138>Bjarni: well obviously players can't adjust sealevel...
13:39<dihedral>thanks - that is pretty cool :-)
13:39<peter1138>Thomas[NL]: no, but it didn't work very well
13:39<@Belugas>Thomas[NL], old stuff...
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13:40<Thomas[NL]>too good to be true :)
13:40<peter1138>it might work better now
13:40<peter1138>that was before tons of other changes
13:41<@Bjarni> <peter1138> Bjarni: well obviously players can't adjust sealevel... <-- I didn't mean that. What if some other player decides to dig a hole in the "hill" around the tunnel so it gets flooded? Don't you think this will open for easy access to severely damage MP games?
13:41<hylje>the player will obviously block that by bying the land
13:41<peter1138>Bjarni: *shrug*
13:41<peter1138>happens anyway with land at sealevel
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13:42<Naksu>ttd needs to be 3d
13:42<peter1138>it is
13:42<Naksu>with real water
13:43|-|scia [~scia@] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
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13:43<Naksu>so you could have a lake in the mountains
13:43<Naksu>and flood a mountain village with it
13:44<dihedral>how unstable is trunk?
13:45<hylje>does the sealevel patch involve underwater terrain?
13:45<Wolf01>i think i'll need to make transparent water
13:46<Thomas[NL]>kinda like roller-coaster tycoon water?
13:46<Wolf01>if you use AddSortableSpriteToDraw() i would have to add only the last parameter
13:47<peter1138>it does...
13:47[~]peter1138 wonders...
13:48|-|HMage [~HMage@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:48[~]peter1138 tries it :D
13:49<peter1138>looks odd
13:50<peter1138>because normally water is very very thin
13:50<hylje>magic water
13:50<Sacro_>hmm, an intresting idea springs to mind
13:50<Sacro_>if you build a bridge at ground level, will water destroy it?
13:50[~]Sacro_ creats an underwater bridge
13:50|-|Sacro_ changed nick to Sacro
13:52<peter1138>sealevel of 2
13:52<Sacro>maybe have dark blue sea tiles for underwater
13:53<hylje>shouldnt we rise the overall terrain height to let us have a high default sealevel?
13:53<Wolf01>[20:53:04] <Sacro> maybe have dark blue sea tiles for underwater <- i was thinking it yestarday
13:53<peter1138>there's only 16 height levels
13:53<Sacro>Wolf01: its a good idea
13:53<Sacro>peter1138: 12/4?
13:53<hylje>peter1138: i mean, raise
13:53<Sacro>12 above, 4 below
13:53<peter1138>Sacro: it's configurable
13:54<peter1138>this is 14/2
13:54<@Bjarni> <--- looks like #tycoon get visitors like that as well
13:54<Wolf01>when 24 above 8 below?
13:54<hylje>24/8 would be sheer awesome, just for the looks
13:55<hylje>but this is fine too
13:55<hylje>for a start
13:55<Sacro>peter1138: commit!!!
13:56<peter1138> < hehe
13:56<Thomas[NL]> < hehe
13:56<peter1138>yours truely
13:57<hylje>eek.jpg :p
13:57<hylje>but lets not be distracted !
13:57<@Bjarni>don't post so scary pictures
13:57<@Bjarni>now I'm scared for life :(
13:57<Thomas[NL]>poor bastard O.o
13:59<peter1138> heh
13:59<hylje>talking about distractions
14:01<peter1138> < that's silly
14:01<hylje>testing bridges are we
14:01<dihedral>can it grow when it catches a bubble?
14:01<@Bjarni>I'm not going to click that link
14:01<hylje>its scary indeed
14:01<peter1138>hylje: last year, that was
14:01<@Bjarni>being the internet, it's likely some sexual act or something
14:02<hylje>we all know peter1138 is such a perv
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14:02<@Bjarni>Sacro: yeah... some people have sex
14:02<@Bjarni>it's not just some porn magazine fiction even though it could be in your world
14:03<Sacro>i've had sex
14:03<@Bjarni>with that freaky girl, who got committed :p
14:03<peter1138>yeah, what could "trans.png" be?
14:03<Wolf01>i've never had sex :D
14:03<peter1138>Bjarni's transsexual lover?
14:04<peter1138>i should clear some of this shit out
14:05<@Bjarni><peter1138> Bjarni's transsexual lover? <-- I don't have such a thing and I don't want to
14:05[~]lolman wonders what he's wandered into
14:05<@Bjarni>lolman: peter1138 is posting links to his perverted pictures
14:05<lolman>Ah, ok
14:05<@Bjarni>so it's a normal night
14:05<@Bjarni>or something
14:06<lolman>Yeah, sounds like it
14:13<CIA-2>OpenTTD: KUDr * r9693 /trunk/src/yapf/ (yapf_base.hpp yapf_rail.cpp yapf_road.cpp yapf_ship.cpp): -Codechange [YAPF]: GetBestNode() now returns pointer to node instead of reference
14:16[~]peter1138 considers beer
14:16<@Bjarni>it has sideeffects
14:16<@Bjarni>like it can make you a drunk driver
14:16<@Bjarni>or even worse: a drunk coder
14:17<@Bjarni>somebody might even mistake you for a Microsoft coder
14:17<lolman>That'd be suicide
14:17<peter1138>20:13 <@Bjarni> it has sideeffects
14:17<peter1138>yes, that's the point
14:18<@Bjarni>also they aren't free
14:18<lolman>Damn! I shoulda gone and got a takeaway while I could take money out my bank :(
14:19<@Bjarni>now you are broke?
14:19<lolman>Nah, the place with the cash machine is closed
14:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: KUDr * r9694 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_ship.cpp: -Fix [YAPF][FS#736]: the guessed path (when PF stopped on max. # of nodes passed) was ignored for ships (desolator)
14:19<@Bjarni>like the bank closed the account because it went into minus?
14:19|-|helb [~helb@] has quit [Quit: Logout]
14:20<lolman>Bjarni, oh it's not in minus
14:20<@Bjarni>btw did any of you get an offer on some cheap SPARC CPUs lately?
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14:23<peter1138>cash points close? huh?
14:24<lolman>peter1138, it's inside a shop that closed 25 minutes ago
14:25<peter1138>living the sticks, eh...
14:26<@Bjarni>you know there are places where you can use them 24 hours a day, right?
14:26<@Belugas>Living on the EDGE!
14:26<lolman>Bjarni, a few miles walk yes :)
14:26<lolman>peter1138, I live in the city now :P
14:29<Eddi|zuHause3>nice "city" that only has one cash machine :p
14:30<lolman>Eddi|zuHause3, it has plenty, I just can't be bothered walking to them :)
14:30<@Bjarni>and it's even inside a closed shop
14:30<Eddi|zuHause3>ever heard of public transport?
14:31<lolman>No physical cash on me, hence the need for a cash machine
14:31<@Bjarni> <-- Sacro has another name as well?
14:31<@Bjarni><EddizuHause3> ever heard of public transport? <--- if not, then a bike could do the trink
14:31<lolman>Bjarni, wouldn't trust a bike to not be stolen
14:32<@Bjarni>I know
14:32<@Bjarni>lot's of bikes get stolen
14:32<Eddi|zuHause3>it's pretty hard to get a bike stolen while you sit on it
14:32<lolman>Eddi|zuHause3, it's the fact I don't have a bike that works that makes it kinda hard ;)
14:33<@Bjarni>I read that the police decided to stop all bikes one morning to check for stolen bikes and they found a lot
14:33<@Bjarni>several of them was used by the person, who reported it stolen to the police and insurance company
14:33<+glx>how can they check if they are stolen?
14:33<@Bjarni><glx> how can they check if they are stolen? <-- that's easy. They look at the number
14:34<+glx>I don't have number on my bike
14:34<lolman>Nor do I (but mine's broke)
14:34<@Bjarni>it's like a car number, only made so small that people usually don't know that they are there
14:34<Eddi|zuHause3>i have never heard of bike numbers
14:34<peter1138>they like to stamp them under the bottom bracket
14:34<peter1138>usually fucking up the paint work and causing it to start rusting
14:35<@Bjarni>it's stamped into the "chassis" itself with some mechanical stuff, so it's not even possible to paint it to remove the number
14:35<Eddi|zuHause3>and if most people do not know them, how can they report them to the polce?
14:35<lolman>Right need a reboot for new kernel
14:35<lolman>brb :)
14:35|-|lolman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:36<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause3> and if most people do not know them, how can they report them to the polce? <--- because they use the number from the insurance (added when the bike was bought)
14:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9695 /branches/0.5/lang/ (6 files): [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r9668, r9680, r9681, r9687): language updates.
14:41<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9696 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix: --without-application-bundle did not disable the custom language/second data directory stuff that is used for application bundles.
14:42|-|HMage [~HMage@] has joined #openttd
14:43<CIA-2>OpenTTD: KUDr * r9697 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_ship.cpp: -Fix [YAPF](r9694): 'unused variable' warning (glx)
14:44|-|DJ_Mirage [] has joined #openttd
14:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9698 /branches/0.5/ (5 files in 4 dirs): [0.5] -Prepare 0.5 branch for release of 0.5.1.
14:47<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9699 /tags/0.5.1/ (6 files): -Release 0.5.1.
14:48<hylje>release \o/
14:48<ln->Bjarni: stupid question: if i set -mcpu=G4, i suppose it'll still run on G5?
14:48<ln->(not related to openttd)
14:48<@Bjarni>it should work
14:49<@Bjarni>but it should fail if you go the other way
14:50<ln->another question: do you happen to know what's the optimal -mcpu setting for intel macs?
14:50<@Bjarni>you see, Apple was clever enough to make a design so all commercially bought apps compiled for G3 and G4 would still work on G5 unless they really used CPU specific stuff (which is really rare. I only know that VPC had problems with this)
14:51<peter1138>yeah, like all those clever PC designers with their x86 chips? :p
14:52[~]HMage laughs out loud. The updater of msvc2005 to sp1 eats ~6GB of free space. 1) it self-extracts update .msp from exe, then launches that msp. 2) the launched starts copying itself into %TMP% 3) then that .msp copies itself into %TMP% with a new name 4) then it copies itself into %TMP% with a new name 5) then it copies itself into %TMP% with a new name 6) that starts looking for data to actually patch, then checks for free space.
14:53<HMage>needless to say that .msp file is 466Mb big
14:53<Ailure>bridges looks way all glitchy now for me
14:53<Ailure>seems to be TTRS3 causing it somehow
14:56<@Bjarni><ln-> another question: do you happen to know what's the optimal -mcpu setting for intel macs? <--- err... I read it once, but I can't remember that right now... is that good enough? :p
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14:58<ln->Bjarni: yeah, very sufficient :)
14:58<ln->i'll assume it's i686
14:59<@Bjarni>but what do you need it for?
14:59<hylje>intels chips have been i686 for liek ten years
14:59<ln->i'm compiling ffmpeg
14:59<Eddi|zuHause3>Ailure: check for a TTRS update
14:59<@Bjarni>I mean usually the system will just figure it out on it's own
14:59<Eddi|zuHause3>there was something concerning bridges and ottd
14:59<hylje>remember to use sse1-3 too
14:59<ln->correction: i'm *cross*-compiling ffmpeg
14:59<Ailure>Eddi, I was just on my way to the ttdpatch graphics forums
15:00<@Bjarni>ln-: whenever I cross compile to make universal binaries, I use the -arch argument instead. It appears to work every single time
15:01<ln->hmm, well yeah, i'm using that too.
15:01<Ailure>expect it do seems like I have the latest version of TTRS3
15:01<@Bjarni>depending on configure and the makefile, you might be able to just write "-arch ppc -arch i386" and then it will make a universal binary on it's own without you doing anything else
15:01<HMage>correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't -mcpu switch deprecated?
15:01<HMage>as far as I remember, -march is recommended to use instead of -mcpu
15:02<ln->HMage: the situation might be different on the OS X platform
15:02<@Bjarni>OTTD uses -mcpu to specify if it compiles for G5
15:02<ln->the gcc isn't very vanilla either.
15:02<@Bjarni>and it appears to work just fine
15:03<@Bjarni><ln-> the gcc isn't very vanilla either. <-- like it accepts multiple -arch arguments ;)
15:03<@Bjarni>actually Apple added several features to gcc that the GCC people rejected, hence the reason why generic GCC can't compile for OSX
15:04<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, wasn't there supposed to be like 1 week waiting time between release of RCs and final version?
15:04<@Bjarni>Apple released the source though, so you can crosscompile from other OSes if you want to spend the time to set it up
15:04<@Bjarni>like we did on the nightly build server
15:05<Ailure>I just had to reorder sprite priotery
15:05<Ailure>the brigdes works now
15:05<ln->Apple's gcc had support for precompiled headers a long time before the regular GCC...
15:05<HMage>Ailure: are you going to commit that?
15:05<hylje>commit? with what privileges? :-)
15:06<Ailure>I didn't even touch the source code
15:06<Ailure>I just gave TTRS3 highest priotery or whatever
15:06<peter1138>grf priority, not sprite priority
15:06<Ailure>good point
15:06<HMage>I suspect we're going to have sprite priority wars
15:06<peter1138>but there is no priority :)
15:06<@Bjarni><hylje> commit? with what privileges? :-) <--- there is a reason why we don't allow everybody to commit
15:06<Ailure>I suspect it's the order they are loaded in or something
15:06<@Bjarni>one is alexfili
15:06<@Bjarni>another one is jez
15:07<hylje>Bjarni: that doesn't explain your commit privs
15:07<peter1138>what's loaded *last* is what is used, when they affect the same thing
15:07<Ailure>like most games
15:07<Ailure>I done that in some other games
15:07<peter1138>Bjarni: the other reason is we're evil selfish bastards
15:07<Ailure>like insert a object with same id that loads later
15:07<Ailure>so it overwrites a orginal object in the game
15:07<@Bjarni>peter1138: you beat me to write that :p
15:07<HMage>I mean, come on, no matter in which order you load newgrf's it shouldn't glitch the drawing of them
15:08<Ailure>that's what I found weird
15:08<Ailure>the GRF's I had below TTTRS3
15:08<Ailure>hadn't anything to do with bridges
15:08<peter1138>HMage: bridges are just sprite replacements
15:08<HMage>Ailure: are you talking about newbridges or stock ttd ones?
15:08<peter1138>so if two grfs replace the same set of sprites, things can get mixed up
15:08<Ailure>newGRF's in general
15:09<Ailure>I only had the UKRS set and the addon below the TTRS3
15:09<Ailure>but I don't see how thoose would cause glitches with bridges
15:11<HMage>ok, maybe I've overreacted. What I wanted to be fixed is that I've observed a strange behaviour in drawing of original bridges if there are signals underneath them. I can try to reproduce that.
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15:13<Ailure>AI can quickly ruin a titlescreen savegame
15:13<Ailure>I wads making one
15:13<Ailure>but the AI thought it was good idea making random busstations and buses going around in that little town
15:13<Ailure>in a rather ugly way too
15:14<HMage>All your bus are belong to us
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15:20<Ailure>there should be a titlescreen contest
15:20<Ailure>I just made up something quick so I wo't have to hear 324234234 sounds at teh same time xD
15:20<Ailure>there's still making noises and stuff
15:21<Ailure>just calm engine noises
15:21<Ailure>instead of "BLING BLING BLING BLIGN VROOOM"
15:21<@Bjarni>how can engine noises be calm?
15:22<Ailure>Sonme of the noises in the UKRS set
15:22<Ailure>I find them soothing
15:22<Ailure>Then I find the freight train going by here soothing too so I'm weird
15:22<hylje>ottd needs some $$$ sfx
15:23<|2rB>$$$ sfx?
15:23<hylje>sound effects worth monies
15:25<|2rB>I kind of didnt understand that... but that probably tells more about me than you... or?
15:25<@Bjarni>Ailure: have you found real life trains with calm engine noises?
15:26<hylje>the local emus are rather quiet
15:26<Ailure>I like the sound of X2 :)
15:26<hylje>the rails make more noise than the train
15:26<Ailure>When X2000 slows into the train station
15:26<Ailure>that's gotta be one of the coolest train noises I heard
15:27<@Bjarni>actually I was thinking about locomotives... fair enough. EMUs can be quiet
15:27<@Bjarni>but I have yet to find a calm locomotive
15:27<@Bjarni>specially if it's not electric
15:27<hylje>combustion engines tend to go bbbbbbbbbb
15:27<Ailure>I should look for a GRF with X2000
15:27<hylje>which isnt good for silence
15:27<Ailure>or X2 as it's actually called
15:28<Ailure>X2000 is mostly a marketing thing
15:28<@Bjarni>even steam is noisy... more noisy than most people realise
15:28<hylje>its noisy in a cool way
15:28<@Bjarni>but it's a whole different kind of noisy
15:28<hylje>choo choo
15:28<@Bjarni>specially the safety vents are really noisy
15:28|-|lolman [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
15:28<@Bjarni>and injectors
15:29<Ailure>been awhile since I saw a steam engine
15:29<Ailure>real one that was running
15:29<Ailure>three years ago i think
15:29|-|e1ko [~L@] has quit [Quit: bye, Im going off]
15:29<@Bjarni>I saw one.... hmmm last December
15:30<hylje>yeah, fair enough you train nut
15:30|-|[Bjarni] changed the topic of #openttd: 0.5.1 | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs)
15:30<Ailure>just noticed I had futuuristic wagons on that steam engine
15:30<Ailure>oh well
15:31<@Bjarni>and the last time I saw a steam locomotive (or at least parts of one) was last Monday
15:31<Ailure>the game defaults to water if there's no GRF
15:31<Ailure>I mean
15:31<Ailure>if there's no titlescreen
15:31<Ailure>I remember how TTO did
15:31<Ailure>on TTO it was just grass
15:31<@Bjarni>Ailure: I know
15:31<Ailure>if you removd the titlescreen file
15:32<@Bjarni>Ailure: it also reverts to water if it fails to load the titlescreen.... so if you get a water titlescreen when you don't expect one will indicate a saveload error
15:32<@Bjarni>I had plenty of those when porting to mac in the first place
15:32<@Bjarni>first big endian OS to use OTTD
15:33<Ailure>I like this titlescreen much better
15:34<Ailure>becuse it's simple
15:34<Ailure>the offical titlescreens in TTO, TTD and openTTD likes to squeeze in as much as possible
15:34<hylje>Ailure: move the rail a bit north
15:34<hylje>or the viewport
15:34<Ailure>yeah I just noticed that it covered the xD
15:34<Ailure>but eh
15:34<Ailure>I don't really mind it that way either
15:35<HMage>Ailure: Psychologically wise, I think it's a plus that there are many things shown on one screen.
15:35<@Belugas>Ailure : bad screenshot, you are hiding everything :(
15:35<@Belugas>no station, no houses, just... treeacks and forest!
15:35<@Bjarni>Ailure: no way
15:35<@Bjarni>we can't have winamp in the titlescreen for legal reasons
15:36<Ailure>good point
15:36<HMage>plug xmms there though :)
15:36<hylje>xmms brings massive dependencies !
15:36<HMage>oh, wait, xmms isn't for win32
15:36<+glx>use vlc
15:36|-|lolman [] has joined #openttd
15:36<@Bjarni>vlc rules
15:37<+glx>it plays everything without need to search for codecs
15:39<@Bjarni>I once found a file it failed to play.... it turned out that all other players failed to play it as well, so I will not blame the vlc guys for it
15:39<@Bjarni>must have been broken in transfer or something
15:39<@Bjarni>actually I once had a working file that it failed to open. Downloading a new version fixed it though
15:40<Ailure>I didn't plan making it a zomg serious titlescreen
15:40<Ailure>just wanted something that wouldn't give me ADHD each time I start the game
15:40<@Belugas>Bjarni : i prefer your japanese-understanding story :D
15:40<ln->wow, i think i just compiled ffmpeg libraries as universal binaries.
15:41<Ailure>of course that titlescreen get's very boring with low resoultions as there wouldn't be any rail at all ;)
15:41<Ailure>b7ut having just nature as titlescreen would be nice as well
15:41<@Bjarni>Belugas: yeah... I like it too.... I started to wonder about how many words I picked up and I counted like 8 or 9
15:42<@Bjarni>at this rate I will learn Japanese in just a few years without actually trying :D
15:42<@Bjarni>(like that will ever happen)
15:43<@Bjarni>btw I noticed something: Japanese grammar appears to be very different from grammar in European languages
15:43<Ailure>in next generation we probably won't speak English anymore
15:44<lolman>Ailure, have you seen what some NATIVE speakers are like now?
15:44[~]Belugas just had a thought about picking random intro scenes, if more than one available...
15:44<@Bjarni>most people speak Engrish anyway
15:44<Ailure>all r would been dropped in favor of l, or the other way around
15:44<hylje>Bjarni: ORLY
15:44[~]Ailure isn't really serious
15:44<Ailure>Native spakers
15:44<Ailure>Swearing in my own language is fun ;D
15:44<@Bjarni>hylje: hi
15:44<lolman>Hmm need to test something, brb :)
15:44|-|lolman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:44[~]Belugas wonders what country speaks Native
15:44<Ailure>It's especiall fun when people aren't sure if you gave them a compliment or... not.
15:45<@Bjarni>Belugas: Native Americans.... I guess
15:46<peter1138>who's going to get r9700, anyway?
15:46<@Bjarni>somebody with commit rights.... I guess
15:46<@Belugas>or with something to commit :P
15:46<@Bjarni>or both
15:47<peter1138>i know...
15:47<@Belugas>not or...
15:47<@Belugas>AND both
15:47<peter1138>r9700 (Belugas) -Feature: NewIndustries
15:47<hylje>moments like this make me think why i havent bluffed myself commit rights
15:47<@Belugas>that will scrap nighlies for quite a long time :D
15:47<hylje>then i'd ninja all the GETs
15:48<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9700 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Merge: Release changes from 0.5 branch back to trunk.
15:48<@Belugas>Perfect timing Rubidium :D
15:48<hylje>that was lame
15:49<peter1138>Belugas: better save it for r9800...
15:49<Rubidium>for 10000 ofcourse ;)
15:49<hylje>or 9999
15:50|-|DJ_Mirage [] has joined #openttd
15:51<@Belugas>i wonder if i can finish it by then
15:51<@Belugas>somehow, i doubt
15:51<hylje>good luck
15:52<@Belugas>courage, actually, not luck...
15:52<@Belugas>but thanks anyway
15:56<@Belugas>going home at last
15:56<@Belugas>enjoy the weekend guys
15:57|-|Desolator [Desolator@] has joined #openttd
15:59<Digitalfox[Home]>you too Belugas
16:00<Digitalfox[Home]>Have a nice weekend :)
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16:02<Thomas[NL]>arg stupid cat
16:05|-|Ammler [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:06[~]Bjarni wonders about Thomas[NL]'s encrypted message
16:07<@Bjarni>it could be important
16:08<rahikkala>Cat-like typing detected
16:12<@Bjarni>this reminds me of when my computer was "attacked" by a child. She wanted to use the computer like she had seen I did, so while I was somewhere else, she went for it and pressed random keys and when I got back, I noticed that the front app was IRC (in #openttd) and the whole channel was talking about my strange messages
16:12<@Bjarni>turned out that she had managed to produce a whole lot of long lines of random chars
16:13<@Bjarni>so when I looked at the monitor, I could see nothing but those random chars and people wondering about what went on in my end
16:14<@Bjarni>it filled the whole screen and I actually had to scroll way back to see the last "real" message
16:14<@Bjarni>oh well
16:14<@Bjarni>she didn't manage to start kicking random clients or anything
16:14<@Bjarni>now that would have been interesting
16:14<@Bjarni>anybody here?
16:14<Digitalfox[Home]>yeah :)
16:15<@Bjarni>except cats, that is
16:15|-|lolman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:15<Digitalfox[Home]>it happens ;)
16:15<@Bjarni>random kicks?
16:15<Digitalfox[Home]>no strange things
16:15<Thomas[NL]>still here i think
16:15<@Bjarni>reminds me of the bash quote where a guy gets +o and then the op said "oops, I wanted to kick him"
16:16<@Bjarni> <Thomas[NL]> still here i think <-- wow, the cat improved it's typing skills
16:16|-|Desolator [Desolator@] has quit []
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16:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9701 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Add support for returning 'ttdpatch variables' -
16:20[~]Thomas[NL] = :o
16:20<Digitalfox[Home]>One time i was repairing a pc on a sawmill, and i started looking for the mouse ( pc mouse ), and i found the usb conector plugged to the box, and start searching for the mouse using the cable, but then something really strange happen the cable was broken in the end and no mouse.. Then after scratching my head i saw a real cat with it in his mouth .. :| My boss at the time saw that too and...
16:20<Digitalfox[Home]>...told me to call the sawmill boss, and the sawmill boss got crazy trying to catch the cat.. Well he buyed another mouse, but the cat hide the old mouse... :|
16:21|-|Osai [] has joined #openttd
16:21<Thomas[NL]>haha, cat's are funny :P
16:21<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9702 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_engine.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle.h): -Codechange: Add livery support to newgrf vehicle var 43
16:22<@Bjarni> <-- this is a very valid reason why you shouldn't learn Japanese on IRC
16:23<@Bjarni>well, people should really be more specific when they tell their cats to catch mice
16:29|-|setrodox_ [] has joined #openttd
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16:29<Eddi|zuHause3>am i the only one to think that Thomas[NL] looks evil?
16:30<@Bjarni>he is on IRC -> he looks evil
16:30<@Bjarni>until proven otherwise
16:31<Thomas[NL]>you all look evil? :o
16:31<Eddi|zuHause3>i mean on the totally reliable picture of him he posted above
16:32|-|setrodox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:33<ln->Bjarni: what is a framework supposed to contain?
16:33<ln->in particular, is it supposed to contain dylibs?
16:34<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: it's the usual. Somebody posts a picture on the internet of themselves while in reality it's actually an (almost) naked person much younger and lighter than themselves
16:34|-|Sacro__ [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
16:34<@Bjarni>ln-: hmm
16:35<@Bjarni>ln-: check the frameworks in your system
16:35<ln->i.e. what the hell are the SDL.framwork and SDL_net.framework at good for, since they seem to contain headers but no dylibs?
16:35<Eddi|zuHause3>you mean all the young ladies in #lesbians? no, they must be real!!!
16:36<@Bjarni>maybe there is no such thing as lesbians.... but the porn industry invented it and fooled all of us :p
16:36<Thomas[NL]>noway... that would be so gay
16:39|-|Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
16:39<@Bjarni><ln-> in particular, is it supposed to contain dylibs? <-- my SDL framework contains headers, SDLMain.nib (some file to help Xcode... or something) and a nearly 900k file called SDL
16:40<@Bjarni>I presume the last is the actual binary code that you are searching for
16:40<@Bjarni>the .nib could actually be linking info
16:40<@Bjarni>but I'm not sure
16:40<@Bjarni>I didn't really play around with frameworks that much. I mainly add what other people compiled or use libraries in unix style
16:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9703 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp newgrf_engine.cpp newgrf_engine.h): -Codechange: support callback 36 in vehicle purchase lists
16:43|-|Sacro|Laptop [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
16:45|-|Purno [] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.]
16:47<Eddi|zuHause3>what?!? lesbians are as real as the santa claus, for sure!!!
16:48<Eddi|zuHause3>wow, that took long
16:48<Eddi|zuHause3>he only answered to the 3rd mentioning
16:48<@Bjarni>well, he is slow
16:48<peter1138>he's too busy
16:48<@Bjarni>Sacro|Laptop: we had a visit of two lesbian OTTD players. They left like 10 minutes ago
16:49<peter1138>with lesbians
16:51<Sacro|Laptop>zomg? lesbians OTTD?
16:52<Sacro|Laptop>Bjarni: best kicking incident was with me and lolman
16:52<Sacro|Laptop>!kick _42_
16:52<Sacro|Laptop>:( you fixed it
16:53<lolman>Sacro__, I remember that one :)
16:53<@Bjarni>me too
16:53<+glx>lolman: you are talking to the wrong ghost
16:53<@Bjarni>I had to do some fast typing because I never scripted kicks
16:53<lolman>Yeah, damn tab-complete
16:54<Sacro|Laptop>hmm, Sacro__ is here
16:54<@Bjarni>hi Sacro__
16:54<@Bjarni>long time no see
16:54<Sacro|Laptop>hmm, what IP is he on :\
16:55<lolman>Same as Sacro|Laptop is
16:55<@Bjarni>let's ban that domain to get rid of all the ghosts
16:55<Sacro__>ah i found him
16:55|-|Sacro__ kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [now you lost him]
16:56<Sacro|Laptop>how cruel
16:56<@Bjarni>I got scared of the idea of cloning Sacros
16:58<Sacro|Laptop>i could unleash a few
16:58<Sacro|Laptop>but then i will get G-Lined on quakenet again
16:58<@Bjarni>I could ban the cloning device
16:58<@Bjarni> <--- I got to remember that one. It's awesome
17:00<@Bjarni>this guy really thought about this
17:00[~]Bjarni wonders about trying it
17:01<@Bjarni>but it will clearly not work with everybody
17:03<@Bjarni>I once made a battery out of a potato. After draining some power from it, my sister decided to add legs to it (matches or something) and painted a face on it and used the poles as arms. Now it was a potato man. After a while it started growing, so we buried the potato man in the garden and he gave us a decent amount of potatoes
17:03<@Bjarni>potatoes are cool
17:03|-|Sacro^ [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
17:03|-|Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
17:03<lolman>Oh noes, the clones
17:04|-|mode/#openttd [+b *!*Ben@*.karoo.KCOM.COM] by Bjarni
17:04<@Bjarni>no more clones
17:04|-|Sacro^ [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit []
17:04<@Bjarni>dammit, why do I always do this????
17:04<Eddi|zuHause3>didn't a ban also mute the person (if not kicked)?
17:04<@Bjarni>yes, he is mute
17:05|-|Sacro|Laptop [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
17:05<@Bjarni>he will still read the channel, but he can't say anything and he can't join
17:05<@Bjarni>and now he has a problem
17:05<@Bjarni>you see... once again I forgot how to unban :p
17:05<Eddi|zuHause3>there's one clone left
17:05<+glx>mode -b
17:05|-|Osai^2 [] has joined #openttd
17:05|-|Osai [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:05<Eddi|zuHause3>i'd suggest /unban, but that'd help him :p
17:06|-|mode/#openttd [-b *!*Ben@*.karoo.KCOM.COM] by Bjarni
17:06|-|Osai^2 changed nick to Osai
17:06<@Bjarni>but then again why would we care for Sacro's issues?
17:06|-|Sacro^ [~Bjarni@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
17:06<@Bjarni>I mean we could spent days just listing all of them
17:07[~]Sacro^ saunters back in
17:07<+glx>Sacro^: nice workaround but you were already unbanned
17:07<Sacro^>glx: i see that now
17:08<Eddi|zuHause3>actually, circumventing a ban should be a candidate for death penalty :p
17:09[~]Sacro^ disagrees
17:10|-|Sacro^ kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [Bjarni agrees with Eddi|zuHause3]
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17:11<neli>I have a train station, 4 wide, with 4 trains retrieving goods from it; sometimes they all arrive at once, blocking all 4 tracks, so that no train can deliver wood anymore -> deadlock; how to prevent this ?
17:12|-|Sacro^ [~Bjarni@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
17:12<Eddi|zuHause3>have separate stations for delivery and pickup
17:12<Sacro^>:( ow
17:12<+glx>neli: reserve a platform for incomming stuff
17:13<neli>glx: how ?
17:13<+glx>waypoints and layout
17:14<Eddi|zuHause3>neli: you could prepare waypoints to separate incoming trains, and only have tracks to 3 of the 4 platforms from the pickup waypoint
17:14<neli>another Q: the loading time penalty for 'too long' trains seems a little high: train of length 6 in a length 5 station takes ~3 times as long to load ?
17:14<Eddi|zuHause3>this means, the 4th train will wait at the waypoint
17:15<neli>hmm I need more space then :(
17:15<neli>I can make a waypoint but it will block the entrance anyway
17:15<Eddi|zuHause3>neli: naturally, a wagon not on the platform will take much longer to load, this will not distribute over the length of the train
17:17<neli>but how much longer ?
17:17<neli>it really seems way more than 2 times
17:17<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't know, must have changed with gradual loading
17:18<Eddi|zuHause3>if i had to guess, if standard loading is 5 items per second (or is it days?), it would be 1 item per second on "overhang" wagons
17:19<Eddi|zuHause3>meaning 5 times longer
17:19<neli>where's the logic in that ?
17:19<Eddi|zuHause3>but that is really just a guess
17:19<Eddi|zuHause3>in general, you should never have trains longer than stations
17:20|-|Peakki [] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä]
17:20[~]neli would like an option to let one of the 4 full load trains leave again if they're all waiting for the same thing and station is full
17:20<neli>I know, but sometimes space is little :-S
17:22<neli>also, why are is new cargo for a station evenly divided for all trains that are waiting ?
17:22<neli>if it were given first to first arrived train, etc... then the deadlock problem would also be less
17:22|-|Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:23<Eddi|zuHause3>you can activate "improved loading", but that might conflict if you have more than 2 trains loading
17:23<neli>never heard of it, what does it do ?
17:23<+glx>that conflicts with "gradual loading" (not true since today's nightly)
17:24<Eddi|zuHause3>it does more or less what you want, only one train loads
17:24<neli>glx: ok cool
17:25<neli>no fundamental conflict, just implementation, I assume ?
17:25<Eddi|zuHause3>it's not technically a conflict, just a misfeature...
17:26<Eddi|zuHause3>i.e. if you had cargo to fill 2 trains completely, still only one train would load
17:26<Eddi|zuHause3>making busy stations a lot slower
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17:27<neli>well if cargo is abundant it should load in parallel of course
17:27<Eddi|zuHause3>it would, if it was designed properly
17:27<neli>abundant == available cargo > sum(train capacities)
17:28<Eddi|zuHause3>we had that discussion earlier today
17:28<Eddi|zuHause3>read the log, if you are interested
17:28<neli>oh oops :P
17:28<neli>have a timestamp for me ?
17:29<Eddi|zuHause3>it's spread througout the whole previous day
17:30<Eddi|zuHause3>e.g. today 19:24 CEST
17:30<Eddi|zuHause3>the previous discussion is out of my buffer, so i'm too lazy to check
17:30<Eddi|zuHause3>but it was less than 24 hours before
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17:31<Eddi|zuHause3>there've also been commits regarding this issue today
17:31<Eddi|zuHause3>but i'm not sure what exactly was changed
17:32<Ammller>!seen prissi
17:32<_42_>Ammller, I don't remember seeing prissi.
17:33<Ammller>has prissi from forum another name here?
17:33<Eddi|zuHause3>why would we know if somebody would be here incognito?
17:34[~]Sacro^ is here incognito
17:35<dihedral>i have upgraded to 0.5.1 :-)
17:35<dihedral>i know you dont like stables but i thought i'd share my joy
17:35<dihedral>and show my appreciation :-)
17:35<Wolf01>i wait for the 0.6.0, meanwhile i continue to play with the nightlies
17:36<Eddi|zuHause3>we should distribute a MiniIN as "stable", that'll confuse people :)
17:36[~]Sacro^ plays with himself nightly
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17:37<dihedral>Sacro - we dont need to know
17:38<dihedral>i am considering one of the nightly's to keep noobs out :-P
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17:38<neli>Eddi|zuHause3: thanks for the info
17:39<neli>good night
17:40<+glx>Sacro^ plays with himself nightly <-- somehow that doesn't suprise me
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17:52<@Bjarni>There is nothing more terrible than dying as a virgin <--- how do they know? They made a survey of people, who tried dying as virgins and people, who had done it when they died?
17:52<Eddi|zuHause3>dying, as in dye your hair blond?
17:53<@Bjarni>dying as in die
17:54<Eddi|zuHause3>but wouldn't that be dieing?
17:54<@Bjarni>you just labelled yourself as an Engrish speaking person
17:54<Eddi|zuHause3>says you, as the english grammar expert you are
17:54<@Bjarni>at least when it comes to grammar
17:55<@Bjarni>once again Sacro failed to tell countries apart :p
17:55<@Bjarni>I'm not Dutch even though he keeps saying so
17:55<@Bjarni>and yes, I can read (some) Dutch
17:55<@Bjarni>and no, I'm not planning on moving
17:56<@Bjarni>btw I wonder about that link
17:57<@Bjarni>is it from the first of April?
17:57<@Bjarni>on the other hand, some freaked out people in NL could do that
17:57<Eddi|zuHause3>it says 20th april
17:57<Eddi|zuHause3>which means today
17:59<@Bjarni>reminds me of a press release the Danish police published on the first of April about issues in the harbour of a certain (inland) town. It actually made it into the news so the police had to send a new one telling that it was a joke
17:59<@Bjarni>that particular town has no harbour at all
18:00<@Bjarni>it makes you wonder about the media... they just published it as being real without thinking
18:02<ln->oh yes, the big SDL binary seems to be a Mach-O fat file
18:02<ln->however, i still need to figure out how to use it :/
18:03<ln->basically it should be a matter of simply adding those frameworks to the Xcode project..
18:03<@Bjarni>add it to your project file or add it as an argument to gcc
18:04<@Bjarni>the argument should be -framework SDL or something
18:04<@Bjarni>you should never link directly to the file. Use the framework access to do so
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19:32<@Belugas>hard to find :S
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19:51<@Belugas>f*** it
19:52<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't suppose that's gonna help a lot :)
19:53<@Belugas>nope, but it's better than yelling and waking the kiddo :)
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19:55<@Belugas>memory fault, somewhere after saving a game and exiting back to intro menu
19:56<@Belugas>looks like stuff that i forgot to free, or memory overriding
19:56<@Belugas>or something :(
19:56<@Belugas>newindustries are a bit frustrating
19:56<@Belugas>i guess i may have to go with plan b)
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20:22<TheJosh>Hey I have a quick development question: How do you add a price to the prices class? I Added one, and added a default value,etc to economy.cpp, but now I get an assert when I start the game "openttd: /home/josh/svn/openttd-nightly/src/saveload.cpp:901: void SlLoadChunk(const ChunkHandler*): Assertion `SlGetOffs() == endoffs' failed."
20:38<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't know what a price class is, but you have to update the saveload code, to update old savegames on load
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20:39<Eddi|zuHause3>old savegames especially include the title screen savegame
20:39<Eddi|zuHause3>that is very old
20:41<TheJosh>So if I add a price, I need to do a savegame bump?
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20:43<TheJosh>i always feel bad that Im bumping the savegame. Its like im making a prefectly good format invalid just because I want to have user-creatable towns
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20:45<DandMan>hello all
20:45<DandMan>can anyone help with openwrt?
20:45|-|Eddi|zuHause3 [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20:49<DandMan>does anyone know where i could get some help?
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20:49<TheJosh>what is openwrt
20:51<DandMan>it's the firmware in routers, ex. dd-wrt
20:52<TheJosh>and you want to tell it to let openttd through?
20:53<Eddi|zuHause>and why would we know something about that?
20:54<DandMan>ok sorry
20:55<TheJosh>i dont even know the port it uses, but i might beable to find out
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21:10<+glx>!openttd ports
21:10<+glx>!openttd port
21:10<_42_>glx: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
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21:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: belugas * r9704 /trunk/src/table/build_industry.h: -Documentation: Add comments on industry data macro
21:46|-|maad_ changed nick to maad
21:48<CIA-2>OpenTTD: belugas * r9705 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp table/industry_land.h):
21:48<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Merge some data arrays together, making a bit more logical units.
21:48<CIA-2>OpenTTD: Calculate with a macro (for _industry_anim_offs_toys) the value of x, instead of doing it at run time.
21:48<CIA-2>OpenTTD: And give some more descriptive names too...
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22:16<DaleStan>Rubidium: You said "Link to RC2 forum post:" twice, instead of saying "Link to RC3 forum post:" the second time.
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---Logclosed Sat Apr 21 00:00:57 2007