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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-04-23

---Logopened Mon Apr 23 00:00:43 2007
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00:47<boekabart_>where can i find a log of this channel?
00:48<boekabart_>or : peter1138: can you give me a link again to your version of my patch? (@ another pc now)
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01:03<boekabart_>answer to my own question:
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01:10<SpComb>boekabart_: !logs
01:11<boekabart_>apparently more than 1 site is logging :)
01:11<SpComb>I was the first one, though :P
01:11<boekabart_>hm, the thegrebs one is prettier :)
01:11<SpComb>423 days logged since Feb 25 2006
01:11<SpComb>I have a prettier version that works, but I haven't had the time to make it production-ready
01:12<boekabart_>totally unimportant anyway. Thanks, found the info i needed
01:12<SpComb>but I have had this big nagging feeling recently that I need to pick it up again and finish it off
01:14[~]peter1138 nags SpComb
01:14<boekabart_>look who's alive :)
01:14<boekabart_>peter1138: the link you sent me yesterday still points to your latest version?
01:15<peter1138>removes that bit you mentioned
01:15<peter1138>and adds transparency option
01:16<boekabart_>what's that option?
01:16<boekabart_>and what is the 'UI' for changing sea level?
01:17<peter1138>UI? you want a UI?
01:17<peter1138>i was just adjusting it with a debugger ;p
01:17<peter1138>but... easy to add it to the patches window
01:20<boekabart_>ok, just checking
01:20<boekabart_>wondered if i missed it :)
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01:20<boekabart_>i fixed bridge drawing
01:21<peter1138>was it broken?
01:21<boekabart_>well yes, it drew the pillars under water
01:24<boekabart_>well they were sorted out after
01:25<boekabart_>still, pixels for nothing
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01:48<boekabart_> if (GetMaxTileHeight(tile) <= _patches.sealevel + 1) break;
01:48<boekabart_>is not OK according to vs80
01:48<boekabart_>types are uint / uint8
01:48<boekabart_>but this IS ok:
01:48<boekabart_>if (GetMaxTileHeight(tile) <= _patches.sealevel) break;
01:49<boekabart_>apparently, unsigned char + 1 = int ?
01:49<peter1138>+ 1U ?
01:49<boekabart_>yea, that helps
01:49<boekabart_>same thing with * TILE_HEIGHT
01:50<boekabart_>(uint)TILE_HEIGHT fixes that
01:50<peter1138>le sigh
01:54<boekabart_>what to do with building depots... only on 0-deep water?
01:54<boekabart_>sounds reasonable, doesn't it
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02:10[~]peter1138 bahs at plane speed patch
02:11<peter1138>our taxi speed is reduced, so if i just /4 then taxiing takes days
02:11<boekabart_>peter1138: do you think it's a good idea to modify the GetSlopeZ_Water and GetSlopetileh_Water functions to return water level/slope instead of sea-floor slope?
02:11<boekabart_>it does fix the ship movements, but i'm not sure what it might break
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02:12<peter1138>i don't know
02:17<boekabart_>i like the transparent option :) but to call water a building....
02:19<peter1138>oh, the menu option, heh
02:19<peter1138>use the transparency toolbar
02:19<peter1138>press ^X
02:19<roboboy>or call it underwater view?
02:19<roboboy>like RCT
02:20<peter1138>08:07 < Tama00> lol
02:20<roboboy>so add it as an extra option?
02:20<peter1138>it is an extra option
02:20<peter1138>^8 toggles it, heh
02:21[~]peter1138 goes
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02:47<peter1138>time to put the coffee on
02:53<SpComb>time to reboot quakenet
02:58<boekabart_>what happens when a train depot with trains in it, is flooded?
02:58<boekabart_>everything gone?
03:07<boekabart_>peter1138: changing GetSlopeZ_Water influences too much.. better let ship controller call a specific GetSlopeZ_WaterSurface function
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03:13<peter1138>does it need it?
03:14<peter1138>can be fixed easily, i should think
03:15<peter1138> ?
03:15<peter1138>no that won't do for low canals
03:16<peter1138>so just test if it's a canal first :D
03:16<boekabart_>i've fixed it already
03:17<boekabart_>actually i've thought of a sealevel patch that is a LOT better, but it requires an extra uint8 in map array
03:17<boekabart_>that's not acceptable, right?
03:17<peter1138>another one? why?
03:17<boekabart_>it's more realistic
03:18<peter1138>so *all* tiles need to store sea level?
03:18<boekabart_>makes lakes and stuff possible
03:18<peter1138>not possible to store it just for water tiles?
03:19<boekabart_>well yes
03:19<boekabart_>do water tiles have 8 bits left?
03:19<peter1138>they have 50 bits free
03:20<peter1138>all of m2, m3, m4 and m7, bits 2-7 of m5 and bits 2-5 of m6
03:20<boekabart_>you know that by heart? :)
03:20<peter1138>i lied ;p
03:21<boekabart_>first we'll finish this, i need to focus...
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03:58<boekabart_>peter1138: only m7 would be usable, other are in use by dock, oilrig
04:01<Eddi|zuHause3>doesn't that suffice?
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04:02<Rubidium>I guess m7 will be used for oilrigs in newindustries
04:04<peter1138>and i'll be using it for stations, though probably not for docks, yet
04:12<hylje>with several water levels, rivers and other aquatic constructs might be a breeze
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04:15<peter1138>hylje: they'll be a breeze if you code it for us :D
04:15<hylje>yes, sure
04:15<peter1138>Rubidium: planespeed/taxiing
04:15<peter1138>Rubidium: if i apply a 'planespeed 1' patch, taxiing is really slow. acceptable? ;p
04:16<peter1138>(i gather that celestar doesn't care)
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05:00<boekabart_>hylje: I'm thinking the same thing and have the code in my head already.
05:00<hylje>thats great!
05:01<hylje>but i dont think any draining mechanisms can be had
05:01<boekabart_>I think they can
05:01<hylje>if so, that'd be totally sweet
05:02<boekabart_>But first i'll finish the basic high-sealevel-patch. I'm fighting with the drying-up after lowering sea level again... I don't want lakes to dry up....
05:03<hylje>lakes in this context?
05:03<Eddi|zuHause3>just start "anti-flooding" from 0x0
05:03<Eddi|zuHause3>anything not connected to the sea will then not dry out
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05:16<boekabart_>Eddi|zuHause3: how do you suggest that drying up propagates then? instantaneously?
05:16<boekabart_>currently it's like flooding
05:16<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, i thought like flooding
05:17<Eddi|zuHause3>but i do not know how flooding is exactly implemented
05:18<Eddi|zuHause3>you could implement it like a BFS
05:18<boekabart_>flooding is in tileLoop: if a tile is water and the neighbour is not, it will become wet too.
05:19<boekabart_>basically, drying up works the same now for water tiles that are above sea level: if any neighbour at same height is dry, dry up too
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05:24<boekabart_>i got it to work so that lakes stay wet
05:24<boekabart_>but they won't get larger if modified: they will dry up
05:25<boekabart_>since drying up is stronger than flooding, above sea level
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06:05<Rubidium>peter1138: does that slow taxiing mean that it is possible to get them stuck?
06:06<Rubidium>then it's ok by me; planespeed should (ofcourse) be on all speeds of a plane ;)
06:07<peter1138>can always be adjust later, of course
06:07<peter1138>default to 1 or 4?
06:09<Rubidium>I'd say default to TTDs speed
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06:12<peter1138>so taxiing is slow? :p
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06:22<boekabart_>ever been in a plane? taxiing IS ALWAYS ANNOYINGLY SLOW!
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07:41<Eddi|zuHause3>it's the letter next to g
07:42<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: what a strange keyboard you have
07:43<peter1138>it's a letter next to f...
07:43<Sacro>its like that on mine too
07:43<peter1138>but not *the* letter...
07:43<peter1138>Sacro fails
07:43<Sacro>indeed he does
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08:20<peter1138>Belugas :D
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08:26<@Belugas>#water water everywhere!
08:27<@Belugas>how's life, Master?
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08:31<@Belugas>it looks like i should start reserving bits and bytes for newindustries, if i don't want to see any left ones used up by the new water scheme :)
08:32<@Belugas>kick in the butt boy!
08:39<boekabart_>Belugas: You can relax, I've now got High Seas, Rivers and Lakes working with no extra bit used
08:40<@Belugas>congratulations :)
08:40<boekabart_>i hope
08:40<@Belugas>either way, i have stuff to clean on industries. requirements of a *certain* project of mine ;)
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08:41<@Belugas>map-oriented-stuff, might i add...
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08:44<maddy>how can i use newindustries from the nightlies?
08:46<@Belugas>you can't
08:46<@Belugas>it's not in the nighlties
08:46<@Belugas>it's not even on my own machines
08:46<@Belugas>welll not finished,that is...
08:46<@Belugas>far form it
08:46<@Belugas>far FROM it
08:48<maddy>ah, because in the logs i see every time new changes for newindustries
08:48<maddy>i thought maybe it is already available
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08:49<maddy>or was it newcargo...
08:49<maddy>i meant newcargo
08:49<Eddi|zuHause3>those are two different things
08:49<Sacro>its newcagoes
08:49<maddy>yes, i meant newcargos, not newindustries
08:49<maddy>how can i use them?
08:50<Eddi|zuHause3>new car goes? you better hope it drives :p
08:50<maddy>Eddi|zuHause3: :p
08:50<Eddi|zuHause3>you can't use newcargos without industries
08:50<maddy>then i forget about newcargos and newiindustries
08:51<Thomas[NL]>some people are talking about the new map-array format, what will be different at what will be the advantages?
08:52<Eddi|zuHause3>there were lots of different plans for that... not all lead anywhere
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08:52<@Belugas>they do not know whata they are talking about
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08:53<@Belugas>they are confused by the evilish wiki!
08:54<Eddi|zuHause3>the last plan i heard was stacked tiles, in preparation of flexible bridges
08:54<Eddi|zuHause3>but apart from the C++ port, i have not seen anything happening towards that direction
08:56<@Belugas>can addition of m7 counts?
08:57<Eddi|zuHause3>m7 has nothing to do with stacked tiles :)
08:57<@Belugas>no, but for new map array, it could, since it's a new array in the map!
08:57<Eddi|zuHause3>err... yes :)
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09:04<ln->boris yeltsin is dead
09:05<boekabart_>i just heard
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09:14<peter1138>was he doing anything?
09:21<boekabart_>no, except for drinking a lot, apparently.
09:22<peter1138>now that i aspire to
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09:39<hylje>all we need is stream sprites?
09:41<boekabart_>yea, we do need those.
09:42<boekabart_>going home.. later!
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10:05<Eddi|zuHause3>i'd like to see: lake water, stream water (with direction), waterfalls, shallow sea, deep sea and ocean ground (when transparent) sprites
10:05<maddy>me too
10:06<Eddi|zuHause3>and also streams affecting ship speeds :)
10:07<@Belugas>steam ships
10:08<ln->what about frozen lakes with temporary ice roads over them?
10:08<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't think anyone outside finland thinks this is a great idea :p
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10:09<ln->or frozen lakes with temporary railroads over them?
10:10<Eddi|zuHause3>somehow i knew that one was coming :p
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10:11<hylje>i didnt expect that
10:11<@Belugas>roads on lakes are known in here too.
10:11<@Belugas>trains on lake were used
10:11<@Belugas>not aymore
10:11<@Belugas>since eons
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10:12<@Belugas>frozen lakes...
10:12<Eddi|zuHause3>hylje: a while ago he showed a picture of rails over ice, because the bridge was destroyed (by germans retreating in WWII)
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10:13<yeti_>hi :)
10:14<yeti_>when you upgrade your railways to monorail, what's the easiest method to upgrade your trains? build new depots, the trains, then copy orders?
10:14<yeti_>or is there something easier :) ?
10:15<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't think so
10:16<yeti_>okay :) still a lot better than original ttd though. is it known when PBS will be back?
10:17<Eddi|zuHause3>well, yes, the PBS you know will never come back
10:17<Eddi|zuHause3>the new signal system will be much more than just PBS
10:19<blathijs>oeh, are there designs for a new signal system?
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10:23<@Belugas>ho... xyz is from Montreal
10:23<@Belugas>welcome then :)
10:24<@Belugas>don't know blathijs.
10:24<@Belugas>You might ask KUDr
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10:26<xyz>what's with Montreal?
10:26<peter1138>pom te pom
10:26<xyz>what is that?
10:28<@Belugas>xyz, i am too :) i saw that on your address ;)
10:28<xyz>finaly spring coming
10:29<@Belugas>you bet!
10:36<@Belugas>and gardening too. Nothing is for free :(
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10:36<maddy>i love gardening
10:40<maddy>is a change from the programming the whole day
10:40<Ailure>It's like
10:40<Ailure>RL terraforming
10:41<maddy>something like it
10:45<peter1138>press a few buttons to plant stuff...
10:47<@Belugas>or maybe obey the Grand Manager
10:48<@Belugas>your wife!!!
10:48<peter1138>i need that bulldozer tool...
10:50<HMage>and if you don't have much time, use copy-paste patch
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10:52<@Belugas>that would be so cool
10:53<HMage>but it would mess your terrain if you make a mistake
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11:42<adumitru007>how do I use xmlNodeGetContent(NodePtr cur) to extract the info in an xml-sequence like this one? <tag1><tag2><text>CONTENT</text></tag2></tag1> ?
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11:45<xyz>adumitru007 ro>
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11:46<@Belugas>wrong channel :D
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11:47<Digitalfox[Home]>Belugas this a little offtopic, but do you know anything about cars tyres?
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11:47<yeti_>why do planes always fly a circle around the airport before landing?
11:47<@Belugas>Digitalfox[Home] : cars tires?
11:48<Digitalfox[Home]>I need to change my car tyres.. And i'm having a hard time to pick the right ones
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11:48<@Belugas>i know about winter tires and 4 seasons ones...
11:48<Digitalfox[Home]>so many companys and models
11:48<@Belugas>that';s about it
11:48<Digitalfox[Home]>It's an Audi A3 205/60/15
11:48<+glx>expensive size :)
11:48<Digitalfox[Home]>i'm seraching for sites with reviews
11:49<@Rubidium>Digitalfox[Home], tip: go to a company that sells lots of tyres
11:49<@Belugas>my father-in-law owns a garage. he's the one selling me what i need
11:49<@Belugas>i never know the details...
11:49<@Belugas>i don't even know the pressure required :S
11:49<Digitalfox[Home]>Rubidium: I did, to 3, but all have diferent tyres and models and prices.. It's so confusing
11:49<+glx>Belugas: look at the sticker when you open the door :)
11:50<@Belugas>i may do that :)
11:50<Digitalfox[Home]>And the you have tyres that cost 55€, 65, 75 120, etc...
11:50<Digitalfox[Home]>Anyway it's offtopic, so thanks :)
11:51<Digitalfox[Home]>Anyone knows a good review site for tyres?
11:52<Digitalfox[Home]>glx: Thanks a lot :) :)
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11:54<Chrissicom>good afternoon =)
11:55<xyz>i think there is a bug in the intercontinental aeroport plane handeling code
11:55<Digitalfox[Home]>xyz: What's the bug?
11:56<Chrissicom>do you also have the problem that planes seem to use only one runway?
11:56<xyz>the plane that is taking of from the second runway (the cosest to the camera) makes a 450 degree turn
11:56<xyz>in stead of 90
11:57<xyz>450 anti-clockwise in stead of 9 clockwise
11:57<@Rubidium>what version are we talking about?
11:57<xyz>all til latest AI build
11:57<xyz>let me check
11:57<@Rubidium>(450 anti-clockwise != 90 clockwise)
11:57<xyz>360 + 90
11:58<xyz>is 36-90
11:58<xyz>sorry :P
11:58<xyz>so 270
11:58<xyz>is r9634 -noAI
11:59<xyz>i have a savegame if you want
11:59<xyz>or a screenshot
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11:59<@Rubidium>can you reproduce it in trunk?
11:59<xyz>let me try
12:01<Chrissicom>I just got a strange missing include when compiling the 0.5.1 source
12:01<Chrissicom>.\music\dmusic.cpp(15) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'dmksctrl.h': No such file or directory
12:02<Chrissicom>what file is that?
12:02<@Rubidium>you miss directX stuff
12:02<@Rubidium>so you need to install some DirectX SDK
12:03<Chrissicom>can I use the April 2007 SDK or is the 8.1 required mentioned in the readme?
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12:04<xyz>iep it is happening in the trunk also
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12:04<@Rubidium>and in 0.5.1?
12:05<xyz>le me see
12:05<@Rubidium>Chrissicom: have you added the correct paths to the configuration of MSVC?
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12:06<Chrissicom>I am using a standard install of VC++ 2005 Express and didn't change any dirs
12:06<Chrissicom>and I copied the PSDK files to .../VC/PlatformSDK/include ./bin etc....
12:07<Chrissicom>that solved the problem of a missing winsock2.h and windows.h
12:07<Chrissicom>I am trying to install the DX SDK right now :)
12:08<@Rubidium>< Chrissicom> can I use the April 2007 SDK or is the 8.1 required mentioned in the readme? <- under the assumption that it's backward compatible, it should work
12:08<xyz>0.5.1 also
12:09<Chrissicom>I'll see if I can reproduce the problem xyz describes, I have a game open with icont airports right now
12:09<@Rubidium>can you make a bugreport @ for 0.5.1 and attach the 0.5.1 savegame?
12:11<xyz>can i use the forum username for that?
12:11<xyz>or i have to register
12:11<@Rubidium>it should allow unregistered reporting, but I'm not really sure about it
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12:13<Chrissicom>do you have YAPF enabled in the patch settings xyz?
12:13<Chrissicom>I can't reproduce the problem in my game
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12:14<xyz>Chrissicom: yes
12:14<Wolf01>Belugas: oh dear :P
12:14<@Rubidium>the pathfinder settings shouldn't bother the airplanes
12:15<xyz>it is just for trains roads and ships
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12:16<Chrissicom>oh my the DX SDK has 441 MB :D that'll take me 6 or 7 mins till I can try if it solves my problem
12:17<Chrissicom>oh you're right hmm
12:17<Chrissicom>send me the link to your bugreport when you made it and I'll check your savegame here :)
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12:21<xyz>Notice: Undefined variable: register_text in /www/ on line 602
12:21<xyz>Notice: Undefined index: project_title in /www/ on line 605
12:21<xyz>Notice: Undefined index: flyspray_userid in /www/ on line 264
12:23<boekabart>Chrissicom: on my site you can find a torrent to a super lite version of DX-SDK (jan2007), install-less, perfect for building ottd
12:24<@Rubidium>MiHaMiX: why is flyspray still throwing warnings at new users?
12:24<hylje>the other solution is of course to use linux
12:24<boekabart>that's even more work than installing the full dx-sdk
12:27<Chrissicom>oh cool link boekabart I'll give that a try :D although installing the DX SDK just fixed my problem already
12:27<Chrissicom>but I'd prefer a few files to a big installation :D
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12:28<@Belugas>Wolf01 : thanks, saw it, tried to cool down the expectations
12:28<Sacro>ooh tis a boekabart
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12:31<xyz>here is the link
12:32<dihedral>can someone tell me what that is about?
12:33<dihedral>i was spectating one of my games
12:33<+glx>what were you doing?
12:33<dihedral>hehe - was faster
12:33<dihedral>just toggling that button gave me that window
12:33<dihedral>every single time
12:34<dihedral>i have seen an empty error message box more often
12:34<dihedral>like when simply joining a game
12:34<dihedral>not that it influenced anything
12:34<dihedral>but it only started coming in 0.5.1 (RC3)
12:35<peter1138>dihedral: "that" button?
12:35<dihedral>as you can see
12:35<dihedral>when looking at the 2 screenies
12:36<peter1138>not obvious from one :p
12:36<dihedral>but like i said - it happens on more occations - though this being the reproducable one
12:36<dihedral>no - it's not
12:36<dihedral>thats why there are 2 :-D
12:37<dihedral>also once happened when i was spectating and ran a connect command...
12:38<yeti_>if i set my airplanes to autoupgrade to a larger model, will it rebuild the planes to carry the goods that the old ones carried?
12:38<peter1138>yes, in theory
12:38<+glx>if it can yes
12:39<dihedral>any ideas what could be causing these empty error message boxes?
12:40<Chrissicom>@xyz I downloaded your savegame and tried it, now I got what you exactly meant before :)
12:41<Chrissicom>it's 100% reproducable in any game with 0.5.1
12:41<xyz>i think it is in the game till the introduction of the intercontinental airport
12:43<Chrissicom>I've just checked the behaviour on other airports
12:43<Chrissicom>and e.g. when landing on a metropolition or international airport they do this same full circle turn when leaving the runway
12:44<Chrissicom>it's not really a bug but not choosing the best path I think
12:45<xyz>well i gave it a low severity
12:47<+glx>dihedral: did that happen in RC2?
12:48<dihedral>not when i ran the connect command but i did not try it with the autorenew...
12:49<dihedral>i should still have a binary on my server i could test it quickly
12:52<dihedral>yes it does happen with autorenew
12:52<dihedral>i'll try one of the versions before (0.5.0 and RC1)
12:53<dihedral>i feel 0.5.2RC1 coming soon :-P
12:55<Chrissicom>hmmm I still have an error when compiling 0.5.1 source
12:55<Chrissicom>I have a file C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\PlatformSDK\Include\mfc\afxres.h
12:55<Chrissicom>but when compiling I get this error:
12:56<Chrissicom>2>.\ottdres.rc(15) : fatal error RC1015: cannot open include file 'afxres.h'.
12:57<dihedral>well - it happens in 0.5.0 too
12:57<MiHaMiX>Rubidium: err... i don't really know, i'll test it
12:58<dihedral>i have also got more than one report of private messages not working
12:59<dihedral>but only if the server has been up for more than 5 games or so
12:59<dihedral>could it possibly be because of the higher client numbers?
13:02<@Rubidium>higher client numbers?
13:02<dihedral>i dont know
13:03<dihedral>connected clients get numbers
13:03<dihedral>at some part the number reach 2000+
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13:04<@Rubidium>I see no reason why it would stop working at around the number 2000
13:04<dihedral>i have no idea
13:04<dihedral>but it seems to be a reocuring issue
13:05<@Rubidium>but is it at 2000, or maybe ~256?
13:05<dihedral>i do not play there that much myself - i only go around and check up on the games
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13:06<dihedral>sometimes the pm's worked
13:06<dihedral>but very often (when the server has been running for some time) i get a report from players that it aint working
13:07<dihedral>SirkoZ just mentioned "after serving the 5th game or so"
13:08<dihedral>for my games that means running for about a week
13:08<dihedral>but to be honest
13:08<dihedral>i just updated to 0.5.1
13:08<dihedral>and i have a client count at 423
13:09<dihedral>so the 256 could be closer to the issue than the 2000 :-P 2000 really does not make that much sence
13:14<Chrissicom>I can't get rid of this error 3>.\ottdres.rc(15) : fatal error RC1015: cannot open include file 'afxres.h'. :-(
13:14<Chrissicom>the file is there though
13:14<Chrissicom> < done this, didn't help
13:16<Chrissicom>it also can't be my NTFS permissions, I also get the error when allowing everyone full access
13:17<Wolf01>i just saw the tv: in italy the theft of copper is very common, thieves cut the copper wires on the railroads too :P
13:17<dihedral>some players also report that the key below esc does not open the console for them
13:17<Zuu>dihedral: Depends on the keyboard-layout.
13:17<Zuu>It is the ~ that does it.
13:18<dihedral>Wolf01: you could add that do the list of disasteres... have a little italian run around the map and take some wires form the rails so the e-trains cannot run there anymore :-)
13:18<Chrissicom>Shift+Key below Esc opens the console for me
13:18<Chrissicom>(on German kayboard layout)
13:18<Wolf01>that's what i was thinking :)
13:18<dihedral>it does that form me to on german layout
13:18<dihedral>on uk layout it's the backtick (`)
13:18<dihedral>on the slovanian layout it does not seem to work with either
13:19<Zuu>For me it works to use the ~ atleast which is on the button bellow "x".
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13:19<Wolf01>hello Maedhros
13:20<Chrissicom>ok I fixed the RC1015 error by copying the afxres.h file from the PSDK dir to the ./VC/include dir
13:20<Chrissicom>but now I got 64 new errors when linking lol
13:21<Chrissicom>like this: 3>fontcache.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol __imp__RegCloseKey@4
13:21<Chrissicom>I have no idea what causes this tho
13:22<Wolf01>comment the lines that give you errors.. worked for me
13:22[~]Wolf01 hides
13:22<@Rubidium>Chrissicom: have you followed the guideline on the wiki?
13:22<@Rubidium> <- that one to be precise
13:22<Chrissicom>I did everything like it told me in the readme
13:22<Chrissicom>I haven't read that wiki page tho *sorry* doing that now :)
13:24<dihedral>Wolf01: now i know where all the new features are...
13:24<dihedral>in the comments
13:26<dihedral>so you backport a lot of comments Wolf01 ?
13:26<Chrissicom>Rubidium: Just read the wiki and I have actually done all these steps. Downloaded the Source, Installed VC++ 2005 Express, Installed PSDK, Installed DX SDK, Setup Directories
13:27<Chrissicom>it compiles fine until the linking errors occur
13:30<Chrissicom>fontcache.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol __imp__RegCloseKey@4 < hmmm the file fontcache.obj doesn't seem to exist here
13:30<Chrissicom>isn't it supposed to be in one of the packages?
13:31<@Rubidium>Chrissicom: do you probably don't have the latest
13:31<@Rubidium>s/do //
13:31<Chrissicom>I downloaded the useful file 1.2 from sourceforge just a few hours ago, but I re-check if I clicked the wrong file
13:38<Chrissicom>hmmm that doesn't fix it, there are 3 files missing
13:38<Chrissicom>win32.obj, win32_v.obj and fontcache.obj
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13:40<Chrissicom>oh lol I just see these files aren't from the dev tool installation but reside in the ottd source code dir
13:40<Chrissicom>then I don't know anymore what these linkage errors mean
13:43<@Rubidium>sounds like it doesn't compile those files when it should
13:45<Chrissicom> < damn it I hate it when people write "Yeah I solved it." but don't say how
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13:45<Chrissicom>because this guy is having pretty much the same problem as me
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13:52<Chrissicom>hmmm I found some MSDN entry which tells me that __imp__ in front of the linker error means it's a problem with a dynamic link library
13:52<Chrissicom>the OTTD Source compiles with the /MT switch tho shouldn't it be /MD when using dynamic instead of static libraries?
13:53<Chrissicom>sorry if I am a headache with questions right now :p
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14:07<Ailure>[20:51] <Chrissicom> hmmm I found some MSDN entry which tells me that __imp__ in front of the linker error means it's a problem with a dynamic link library
14:08<Ailure>Or that you need to grab your shotgun and kill taht imp
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14:20<mikegrb>how does one get airplanes? to have trains you have to build a depot, is there something ssimilarfor planes?
14:21<Wolf01>build an airport, there is the hangar
14:23<mikegrb>I was clicking on the airport in general, not the hangar
14:24<Digitalfox[Home]>Since celestar changed the planes speed, i was wondering if an option could be introduced to chose between the old speed and the new one...
14:25<peter1138>go ahead
14:29<Digitalfox[Home]>I would go ahead, but my knowledge of c and c++, is a big 0, so i have to wait for a spare time from a developer, and we all have a real life, so time is always little :)
14:29<peter1138>if you don't try, you won't learn...
14:29<Ammler>the new console command list_patches is cool, but is there something like list_patches | more?
14:30<Wolf01>[21:29:36] <peter1138> if you don't try, you won't learn...
14:30<Wolf01>i learnt :D
14:31<dihedral>use shift+page up
14:32<peter1138>gah, slow pc :/
14:32<peter1138>doing nothing and my loadavg is 0.50+
14:32<Ammler>dihedral: thx
14:33<dihedral>but you cannot see the whole lsit
14:33<dihedral>i find the wiki page on openttd.cfg very helpful here
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14:34<Ammler>yeah, but if you use a patched game, its more worse
14:35<@Belugas>Digitalfox[Home], it's true that Real Life his a big burden, but a good book of programming is a good start
14:35<@Belugas>there is much rewards when you start to understand stuff
14:36<@Belugas>not to the point of understanding Bjarni's stuff, but that's another story :P
14:36<Digitalfox[Home]>Belugas: I am thinking on that, there are some patchs i would like to see in openttd.. But my real life is working in networks, so it's not easy to change my first priority that is learning more about networks :)
14:37<@Belugas>got a point...
14:37<@Belugas>but in the other end, lack of knowledge is worse than useless knowledge
14:38<@Belugas>you never know when you'll need it ;)
14:38<peter1138>Digitalfox[Home]: beware the speed of taxiing ;/
14:38<yeti_> <- help :) trains from SE did not arrive at sadston, even with weighpoints, they would loop around sadston heights an flonnley market heights forever
14:38<yeti_>the extra track south of sadston heights solved it. why?
14:38<Digitalfox[Home]>Well i do some web design so there is a little of understand from my part about how to code some stuff, but there are so many programming languages..
14:38<@Belugas>my wife offered me a book on c++ along time ago (5 years i think) by mistake, she did not knew the difference between Delphi and c++.
14:38<Chrissicom>There is no such thing as useless knowledge =) knowledge is power!
14:39<@Belugas>now, it servers
14:39<yeti_>i dont think it's a signalling problem because trains went (and still go) ta sadston without problems, just the two new ones :(
14:39<Digitalfox[Home]>peter1138: taxiing? What do you mean?
14:40<peter1138>yeti_: hard to see anyuthing at that zoom level
14:40<yeti_>peter, okay, i'll make a more detailed shot
14:41<peter1138>Digitalfox[Home]: taxiing... when the plane moves from the runway to the terminal
14:41<Digitalfox[Home]>Belugas: But you also got a point.. So what books should i start reading to able to understand openttd code?
14:41<yeti_> <- more detailed shot
14:41<Digitalfox[Home]>peter1138: Oh, ok i see now..
14:41<@Belugas>Digitalfox[Home] : start by an easy book on C programming
14:41<Chrissicom>maybe try a nonstop order for the way back
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14:42<Digitalfox[Home]>Belugas: But if openttd is now in c++ shouldn't i start there?
14:42<Chrissicom>as they are forced to go through the train station which trains sometimes don't like
14:42<@Belugas>Digitalfox[Home]: openttd code is a bit complicated if you want to learn C/C++ out of it :P
14:42<@Belugas>Opentt id not fully C++, far form it
14:42<Digitalfox[Home]>It's a mix of c and c++?
14:42<@Belugas>in fact, if is mostly C code compiled ion C++
14:42<+glx>it's C with some C++ features
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14:43<@Belugas>hey glx :)
14:43<dihedral>is anybody working on
14:43<Digitalfox[Home]>Going to a book store tomorrow, i hope i don't get a wrong book.. :|
14:43<@Belugas>and if you want to, you can start learning openttd code, but do it in small chunk
14:43<peter1138>dihedral: not afaik
14:43<@Belugas>i don't know what is available in portugal :)
14:43<@Belugas>cannot helop you there
14:43<Maedhros>Digitalfox[Home]: you might be better off looking through libraries first
14:44<dihedral>just curious because i asked someone to have a look at it
14:44[~]peter1138 nods at Maedhros
14:44<Digitalfox[Home]>Well i portugal most of technical books are in english, so ...
14:44<@Belugas>good point Maedhros. New books a re pretty expensive!
14:44<dihedral>New books are created a lot faster than new stations :-D
14:45<Digitalfox[Home]>hum... Well i must say that technical books here in portugal at least for networks, are not much expensive, so for programming they should be equal in price
14:45<@Belugas>can't say :(
14:45<@Belugas>never touched networking
14:45<Digitalfox[Home]>i'll take a look :)
14:45<elFarto>hi everyone
14:46<Thomas[NL]>If you find a good book you can recommend I'd like to now which :)
14:46<elFarto>can anyone give me some comments on my shiney new patch?
14:46<elFarto>it's located here:
14:47[~]Belugas will in a few momentts
14:47<elFarto>it (unsurprisingly) allows the the autoreplace dialog to replace say an electric with a monorail/maglev
14:47<elFarto>then lets you convert the depot with the trains still inside
14:47<hylje>elFarto: how does that work? arent depots one (or two in case of elrail) railtype only?
14:48<elFarto>hylje, it works coz the patch removes those checks :D
14:48<hylje>what happens when you start an incompatible train in the depot?
14:48<elFarto>becuase i couldn't bare the pain of upgrading my network from elrail to maglev
14:48<elFarto>it doesn't start, it complains about "No Power"
14:48<peter1138>solution: don't upgrade it :D
14:48<@Belugas>elFarto : src/players.cpp : please use tabs instead of spaces
14:49<hylje>so it might actually work
14:49<elFarto>peter1138, but but...:P
14:49<hylje>i'd have this in trunk
14:49<elFarto>damn it, i made sure to turn that off in vim too :(
14:50<elFarto>there are a couple of problems with the patch
14:50<elFarto>afaik, it doesn't upgrade the wagons, but they still work on the new railtype
14:51<hylje>wagon upgdare
14:52<@Belugas>hehehe... i jusst imagine the comments : a lot of "Cool!", of "Bravo!" and the inevitable "It's not like taht in Real Life!"
14:53<hylje>undocumented feature
14:53<hylje>people arent going to try that by themselves
14:54<elFarto>i'd rather have an easy way to upgrade a network rather than total realism
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14:55<@Belugas>code style wise, apart from what i told you, it looks clean.
14:56<elFarto>ok, i've fixed that
14:56<@Belugas>code wise, dunno, i don't have my stuff around nor do i know enough about rail conversion, to be honest
14:56<Maedhros>imho, the possibility of running wagons on tracks that should be incompatible is a showstopper
14:57<@Belugas>feature wise, although the idea is good, a lot of people claim the game is too easy.
14:57<elFarto>it doesn't work Maedhros
14:57<elFarto>the train can't be started
14:57<Maedhros>ah, ok
14:57<Sacro>but what about attaching maglev wagons to a monorail train?
14:58<@Belugas>but do you really upgrade the rails?
14:58<@Belugas>no, you just let the trains run on them, right?
14:58<elFarto>wagons are another thing
14:59<elFarto>all my patch does is allow the auto-replace to convert to engines that are not of the same railtype
14:59<elFarto>it also lets you convert a depot when there are trains inside
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14:59<dihedral>have another player reporting ~ to not open the console on US keyboard
14:59<dihedral>and only since 0.5.1RC1
15:00<@Belugas>elFarto : how? all i see is just some conditions been overriden by your setting
15:00<@Belugas>told you i don't knwo the rail code well enough ;)
15:01<elFarto>well, overriding those conditions lets you :)
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15:01<elFarto>pfft, i hadn't even looked at openttd code till yesterday night :)
15:02|-|io]nowhere changed nick to nowhere
15:02<elFarto>so i went "right, what needs to be commented out for my life to be easy" :)
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15:04<nowhere>is there a known bug causing console to be no longer opened via keyboard?
15:04<elFarto>hmm, maybe the wagons are going to be a problem...
15:04<nowhere>started after installing 0.5.1-RC2
15:05<DaleStan>nowhere: I'm not familiar with such, but that means approximately nothing. Check
15:05<nowhere>I heard others were having the same
15:06<nowhere>I noticed there have been some console improvements, maybe it's related.
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15:10<elFarto>actually, wagons won't be a problem, if the user has a issue with running elrail wagons on maglev, they can just replace them at the same time as the engines
15:10[~]elFarto < lazy developer
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15:20<@Belugas>Digitalfox[Home] : try to get your hand on "The C++ Programming Language" by Bjarne Stroustrup. a good one
15:20<Digitalfox[Home]>Belugas: Ok, will try :)
15:20<Digitalfox[Home]>I don't know exactly what's in the market here in portugal
15:20<@Belugas>that's the guy who wrote c++, so it might be good :D
15:21<Digitalfox[Home]>thak you :)
15:21<Digitalfox[Home]>ops.. Thank you
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15:21<peter1138>not to be confused with bjarni
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15:21<hylje>speaking of confusion,
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15:22<elFarto>my favourite comment about C++: "C++: an octopus made by nailing extra legs onto a dog"
15:23<elFarto>hylje, wtf?
15:24<hylje>i dont know
15:24<@Belugas>mine : "Discusting... all those members"
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15:25<elFarto>give me Java any day of the week :)
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15:26<@Belugas>give me Delphi any day of the week
15:26<@Belugas>oups... i already have that :P
15:27<hylje>i has python
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15:27<Chrissicom>what about Haskell ;)
15:27<elFarto>Chrissicom, sane languages only
15:27<@Belugas>Basic Objects?
15:27<Chrissicom>While ?
15:28<elFarto>brainfuck :)
15:29<Wolf01>whitespace is teh best
15:29|-|boekabart [] has left #openttd [Your eyes grow heavy.. you grow very sleepy..... zzzz...]
15:29<Wolf01>specially when you print the sources
15:30<Wolf01>night boys
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15:34<Ailure>[22:20] <hylje> speaking of confusion,
15:34<Ailure>all I can say is
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15:40<peter1138>Ailure: wut!?
15:40<hylje>lol wut?
15:42<@Belugas>good night, going home
15:43<Maedhros>night Belugas
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15:48<Chrissicom>gnight :)
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15:55<Chrissicom>good night from me too
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15:58<Maedhros>and me, good night
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16:05<elFarto>and good night from me, too! :)
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16:06<Sacro>it should be "and a good night from him"
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16:11<HMage>anyone knows how can I add a case via webtranslator ui?
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16:18<HMage>thanks, glx
16:20<HMage>what if I want to change the list of available cases or rename them?
16:20<+glx>dunno, ask MiHaMiX
16:21<+glx>my language doesn't need cases :)
16:21<HMage>we have 6 cases in russian
16:21<+glx>I know that :)
16:21<+glx>and 32 letters ;)
16:22<HMage>2^5 :)
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16:42<@Bjarni>hi channel
16:43<Sacro>Hello Bjarni
16:43<@Bjarni>did I miss anything?
16:43<@Bjarni>!seen anything
16:43<_42_>Bjarni, anything? hmm... I'm trying to remember... maybe... I'm not sure... no. I don't remember anything.
16:44<@Bjarni>I guess not
16:44<@Bjarni>actually that's quite an answer from _42_... I didn't plan that one :D
16:46<@Bjarni>looks like nothing goes on right now :s
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16:47<@Bjarni>bye _42_
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16:48<peter1138>hello bjarni
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16:48<peter1138>fancy looking into the clone/refit bug?
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16:51<yeti_>another beginner's question: the faster you deliver your cargo, the more money you get. is the delivery time counted from when the train leaves the station or from when it begins loading?
16:51<yeti_>i.e. is there any sense in setting trains to "full load" or not?
16:53<Eddi|zuHause3>well, yes, the loading time count, and yes, "full load" makes sense for most cargos
16:53<Eddi|zuHause3>because while the train waits you get better station rating, so the industry produces more cargo overall
16:54<HMage>does the time start to count since cargo gets loaded or when train exits the station?
16:55<yeti_>so in general use full load for coal, iron ore, etc, but not for passengers, right?
16:55<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, that is usually a good rule
16:55<Eddi|zuHause3>passengers lose a lot of value fast
16:55<Eddi|zuHause3>while coal loses value only slowly
16:56<yeti_>now i see why there are stations with that many tracks on some screenshots :)
16:56<yeti_>can i use any map size or do i have to use powers of 2?
16:57<+glx>powers of 2
16:57<Eddi|zuHause3>maps are always powers of 2, the values in the cfg denote the powers, not the actual size
16:58<Eddi|zuHause3>so if map_x = 8, you get a 2^8 wide
16:59<yeti_>okay, thank you :)
17:00<@Bjarni><peter1138> fancy looking into the clone/refit bug? <-- yes, but not right now. It's kind of late :s
17:00<@Bjarni>remind me tomorrow
17:03<HMage>Trying to fill this into webtranslator: "{WHITE}{COMPANY} - {COMMA} Станц{P 2 ия ии ий}", this works in OpenTTD, and doesn't if I don't put 2 after P, but webtranslator tells me that there's an error. :(
17:05<peter1138>wt2 is buggy then
17:05<peter1138>but openttd is buggy too, it should work without the 2
17:08<HMage>shame the proper plural won't work there, it will be a strain for the eye
17:09<@Bjarni>remember the name of this string
17:09<@Bjarni>eventually the problem will be solved
17:09<@Bjarni>also post a bug report
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17:13<HMage>Bjarni: for wt2 or for ottd?
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17:19<peter1138>Bjarni: there's already a report
17:19<@Bjarni>then don't post another one ;)
17:22<Naksu>running out of spacebucks sucks
17:23<@Bjarni>running out of any kind of bucks sucks
17:23<@Bjarni>money will not make you happy by itself, but it sure helps ;)
17:25<Naksu>whoops, wrong channel
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17:27<jordi>oi people
17:27<@Bjarni>there are people here?
17:28<@Bjarni>I thought it was a geek only channel :(
17:28<HMage>Bjarni: oops, I just did
17:29<jordi>blathijs: done!
17:29<@Bjarni>I will not kill people for reporting bugs
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17:30<@Bjarni>specially not when I tell them to do so (even though it turns out to be duplicates)
17:30<jordi>okay, 0.5.1 just uploaded to Debian
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17:31<ln->Bjarni, do you know about Carbon?
17:31<@Bjarni>not much
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17:31<Sionide>we are made from it...?
17:31<ln->I'd like to enable "click-through" for some buttons, but I'm having difficulties finding information on how to do that.
17:32<ln->(completely off-topic, I know)
17:32<@Bjarni>are you making some sort of GUI with Xcode?
17:33<ln->i'm using wxWidgets which then uses Carbon.
17:33<@Bjarni>well, I tried to do that once... and the result told me that I'm not the right person to ask :p
17:33<@Bjarni>I never figured out how to make the code aware of click events
17:34<+glx>wxwidgets should handle that for you
17:34<@Bjarni>didn't try extremely hard though. When I had problems setting it up, I went for the CLI solution instead
17:35<@Bjarni>glx: most likely, but Xcode aren't that tricky to use either. I just didn't try very hard on it
17:36<@Bjarni>my need was virtually not there since I know how to use CLI apps and make them
17:36<+glx>wxwidgets is a cross-platform GUI framework :)
17:37<@Bjarni>I know
17:37<@Bjarni>cross platform is nice if you plan on porting your app. If you plan on using it locally only on one system only, then cross platform isn't an issue
17:39<@Bjarni>but it could indicate that if you should learn only one system, the cross platform one could be the way to go
17:42<+glx>even without porting app, it's easier to code for win32 using wxwidgets than using win32 api directly
18:02<yeti_>good night everybody
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 24 00:00:41 2007