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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-04-24

---Logopened Tue Apr 24 00:00:41 2007
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00:48<boekabart_>hm. Don't let AI play scenarios with lakes.
00:48<boekabart_>... people will die ...
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00:53<boekabart_>how to add sealevel to the save game?
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01:12<peter1138>add it to settings.cpp as a SLE_CONDVAR
01:12<peter1138>and bump the savegame version
01:12<peter1138>probably also add it to settings_gui.cpp
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01:20<boekabart_>settings.cpp: done; savegame version: done; but how does the game know how to handle the last and the new versions?
01:21<boekabart_>gui: how to do this 'scenario editor only' ?
01:21<boekabart_>ignore in handler fn?
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02:41<blathijs>jordi: :-D
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03:29<boekabart_>peter1138: Why did you think it's better to store sea level in a patch?
03:30<boekabart_>in _patches, that is
03:30<peter1138>it's not entirely
03:30<peter1138>initial_sealevel would be better
03:30<peter1138>but
03:31<peter1138>i dunno
03:31[~]peter1138 gets back to work :p
03:31<boekabart_>ok
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04:04<Maedhros>morning
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07:30<boekabart_>updated my deep water patch: http://boekabart.googlepages.com/deepwater
07:32<peter1138>rivers :D
07:32<peter1138>though
07:32<peter1138>need to add river graphics... hmm
07:32<peter1138>boekabart_, if this will work right
07:32<peter1138>boekabart_, we all want your babies
07:33<hylje>just post screenshots and a request for sprites in some ttd forum
07:33<hylje>i'm fairly sure some grf makers / other artists are interested
07:33<boekabart_>hylje: Doing that now
07:34<boekabart_>re river graphics: different water and 'waterfall' gfx?
07:34<peter1138>river's fine, just need slopes i think
07:34<boekabart_>at least the latter
07:34<boekabart_>yea
07:34<peter1138>also: can ships go up rivers?
07:34<peter1138>i'd guess no
07:34<peter1138>the water slopes can be made rocky, then
07:34<hylje>yes
07:35<hylje>and locks are required for bypass
07:35<peter1138>yeah
07:35<peter1138>hmm, corner slopes too
07:37<_Ben_>would the river graphics be able to be animated like the water?
07:37<peter1138>only in exactly the same way
07:37<peter1138>i don't think you'd be able to make it look like it's flowing
07:37<peter1138>probably can do on the slopes though
07:38<_Ben_>I've not looked at how thats done. Is there x seperate sprites, or is there some automatic variation of 1 sprite or something?
07:38<peter1138>no, it's palette animation
07:38<boekabart_>flowing: no, definately not possible, tile doesn't know where to, where from
07:38<boekabart_>locks in river/lake work perfectly, i tested that.
07:38<hylje>by the way
07:39<boekabart_>should i make an extra posting in the graphics forum (current post is in dev) ?
07:39<hylje>seeding a lake on top of a mountain will flood most of the map?
07:39<boekabart_>(with the request for waterfall gfx?)
07:39<boekabart_>hylje: yes, if you don't design the riverbed well, it will
07:40<peter1138>scenario editor only :)
07:40<hylje>oh, goodie
07:40<peter1138>damn
07:40<hylje>gameplay it would be rather lame
07:40<peter1138>my X server is... laggy :/
07:40<boekabart_>yes, it's scenario editor only. also changing sea level.
07:40<boekabart_>by design.
07:40<hylje>good
07:41<peter1138>*nod*
07:41<peter1138>did you remove the patch option? heh
07:41<peter1138>well
07:41<hylje>is it a map option?
07:41<hylje>or a global?
07:42<peter1138>hylje: very little difference
07:42<peter1138>why don't i look at the diff.. hehe
07:42<hylje>:p
07:42<hylje>its easier to just ask
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07:49<boekabart_>no, i made this the UI: in patches, you set the default sea level. If in scenario editor, this will be applied immediately. If not, it will apply when starting a new scenario or starting a new (generated map) game
07:54<Thomas[NL]>nice work with the sealevel-patch
07:54<hylje>boekabart_: so sealevel is map-specific?
07:55<boekabart_>yes, saved in _m[0].m3
07:57<peter1138>mmm, hidden data :)
07:57<peter1138>sort of
07:58<boekabart_>problem is that I can't prevent patches.sealevel to be changes in game-mode
07:58<boekabart_>and in callback, don't know last value
07:59[~]boekabart_ is hungry. Going to get a couple of McKroket for 1 euro each
07:59<hylje>cheezy
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08:12<_Ben_>finally...I suck at searching. I proposed the raised lakes and flowing water ages ago and did an image, but looking at it it wouldn't fit the current request, theres multiple different tiles. http://www.tt-forums.net//files/raised_lake_170.jpg
08:13<hylje>think the code is flexible enough to have that kind of gradient
08:14<nowhere>looks cool ben
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08:16<_Ben_>I wonder what it would look like if some one added either a) 1 river bit on a slope and the slope conitnued, or 2) a river bit that went to the bottom of a hill and met a hill slope on the other side, so channeled down a midtile gulley
08:20<@Belugas>boekabart_ : you may ask lepkka, on the TTDPatch forums. He's the one behind the newwater grf file. If there's one guy who knows how to draw water with palette animations, he must be the one!
08:21<Thomas[NL]>_Ben_, you may want to post that picture on the forum to inspire gfx-artists. (http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31644)
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08:24<TheJosh>Hey is it possible to compile an openttd binary for windows on linux? I keep getting requests for openttd with a patch I made applied, but people dont understand source patching
08:24<peter1138>yes
08:24<Thomas[NL]>http://wiki.openttd.com/index.php/Cross_Compiling
08:24<peter1138>but not that trivial
08:24<Thomas[NL]>never tried it myself though
08:24<peter1138>best solution: tell them to stfu :)
08:25<TheJosh>I saw the configure option, but didnt know the different values to use
08:25<TheJosh>Thanks
08:25<blathijs>TheJosh: What patch is it?
08:25<peter1138>TheJosh: i tried to make it network safe but didn't have much luck :/
08:25<Sacro>hmm, cross compilinig
08:26<Sacro>TheJosh: try searching for MinGW in your distros repo
08:26<TheJosh>I cant be bothered, too much effort
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08:26<TheJosh>peter1138: I will get it, i need to make a DoCommand hook
08:26<peter1138>TheJosh: no, it's not that
08:26<peter1138>it's the command itself
08:27<TheJosh>blathijs: Its the 'fund a town' patch
08:27<peter1138>the patch is fine and does it correctly
08:27<TheJosh>Was i was about to say, my hook will need to be smarter than the current code
08:27<TheJosh>this patch is basically proof-of-concept
08:28<TheJosh>because i had seen the funciton when i made my last patch, and then when i saw the discussion, i thought 'ohh, that might be easy'...
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08:29<TheJosh>what do you think I would need to do to get networking to work?
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08:39<TheJosh>peter1138: How should networking be done do you think?
08:39<peter1138>by making CmdBuildTown work as expected, some how
08:40<TheJosh>And tunneling it all through a DoCommand, rather than calling it direct
08:41<peter1138>last time i looked at your patch, it did
08:41<peter1138>+DoCommandP(tile, size, mode, CcBuildTown, CMD_BUILD_TOWN | CMD_MSG(STR_0236_CAN_T_BUILD_TOWN_HERE));
08:41<peter1138>+//CmdBuildTown(tile, DC_EXEC, 1, TSM_FIXED);
08:41<peter1138>you tried it both ways :)
08:46<TheJosh>alright
08:46<TheJosh>this patch is pretty hacked
08:47<TheJosh>The original CmdBuildTown needs to be left, and i need to create CmdFundTown (cos the original function is used by the scenario editor)
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08:49<peter1138>it just needs fixing
08:50<Ailure>woah
08:50<TheJosh>it should be split though. different functions for different functuality
08:51<peter1138>i don't see it as different
08:51<peter1138>but anyway
08:51<peter1138>lunch-sort-of-thing...
08:51<Ailure>bah
08:51<Ailure>it's not on thelocal
08:52<Ailure>but anyway
08:52<Ailure>someone was hit by a train and survived with only light wounds
08:52<Ailure>the train actually ran over him and stuff
08:55<TheJosh>anywya im off, tired (tis almost midnight) i am trying to recover data off a ntfs drive one of the pastors at my church gave me
08:55<TheJosh>i was able to remount it, but its got about 45gig od stuff on it, and i only have 15gig free on the box im doing the recover
08:56<TheJosh>so i keep deleting files (starting with movies, then music, next up is probably games or whatever)
08:56<TheJosh>how boring!
08:56<TheJosh>anwyay im off
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09:01<yeti_>is anyone familiar with the track upgrade code? i'm looking at rail_cmd.c, lines 915-918 (0.5.1 release sourcecode), and those lines look to me as if a monorail train in a depot should be upgraded to a maglev one when i use convert tracks on the depot
09:02<yeti_>but in the game it just says "cant convert, train in the way"
09:02<yeti_>so what do those line 915.918 actually do?
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09:09<+glx>yeti_: this part do the conversion, but the check is before the call of this function
09:10<+glx>hmm, I'm wrong
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09:11<+glx>yeti_: line 893: the important checks are here
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09:15<yeti_>i'd like to try and write a patch that, when you try to convert a full depot, asks whether the player would like to upgrade all trains in there for a certain price
09:15<yeti_>should not be that difficult, no?
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09:22<Eddi|zuHause2>upgrade to what?
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09:25<yeti_>eddi: for example i have a monorail depot with two trains in it, then i want to be able to use the convert-to-maglev function on the depot tile so that the depot and the trains inside will be upgraded to maglev, so that i don't have to rebuild every train and copy orders
09:27<peter1138>yes, but upgrade to what? :)
09:27<peter1138>well, i suppose you can modify the autoreplace gui...
09:28<Eddi|zuHause2>you need to hsve a replacement rule for every vehicle in the depot
09:28<yeti_>ah, now i see the problem... hmmm well you're right. no easy solution for that one. i first thought about letting older vehicles run on newer tracks(because we could use the existing autoupgrade feature then), but a steam engine on maglev tracks would definitely be stupid
09:29<Eddi|zuHause2>and you need an exception for upgrading to a compatible railtype (normal->electric)
09:30<peter1138>one problem is all the wagons are actually different too
09:30<Eddi|zuHause2>and you need to be prepared for other railtypes to come
09:30<@Belugas>[10:26] <peter1138> well, i suppose you can modify the autoreplace gui... <--- sadistic!
09:30<peter1138>yes
09:34<Sacro>all gui things are sadistic
09:37<+glx>autoreplace is worse than others
09:37<peter1138>the build vehicle gui is a bit mad now ;p
09:37<peter1138>coincidence...?
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09:38<yeti_>another idea: modify the "clone train"-feature so that it will even 'clone' a train that is not compatible with the depot's track type, but will then ask which engine to use
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09:38<Eddi|zuHause2>as long as you have one guy understanding the gui :p
09:38<yeti_>that sounds reasonable, no?
09:39<peter1138>Eddi|zuHause2, who's that? :p
09:39<Eddi|zuHause2>yeti_: that sounds pretty stupid
09:39<Eddi|zuHause2>peter1138: i have no idea :p
09:39<Zuu>yeti_: I don't think that will help that much for the players.
09:40<@Belugas>[10:38] <Eddi|zuHause2> as long as you have one guy understanding the gui :p <--- that guy must always be arouind, or he must have documented HEAVILY his... mmm.. stuff
09:40<Eddi|zuHause2>yeti_: again, you also have to replace each wagon
09:40<@Belugas>i was about to say code, but...
09:40<@Belugas>stuff is good ;)
09:40<peter1138>STUFF!
09:40<peter1138>hackykid had a stuff build
09:40<Sacro>yeah, i remember that
09:40<Sacro>hackykid by name...
09:41<yeti_>okay then never mind, 'twas just an idea :)
09:41<peter1138>hackystuff by nature?
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09:41<Sacro>peter1138: indeed...
09:41<peter1138>still, at least pbs worked
09:41<peter1138>mostly
09:41<peter1138>well, some of the time
09:42<Sacro>so long as you never edited a live junction
09:42<Eddi|zuHause2>if you know what to do :p
09:42<Sacro>oh i loved PBS
09:42<Sacro>my networks aren't the same without it
09:43<Sacro>and in roughly a month, when i finish college, i will get back into coding
09:43<Eddi|zuHause2>actually, editing the junction is fine, you just need the signal gui to directly place pbs signals, or you will destroy the signal block
09:45<Sacro>peter1138: are you an OpenTTD Mod?
09:45<Eddi|zuHause2>there are some fun situations, like when you place a signal in the already reserved path, the train gets stuck :p
09:45<Sacro>hehe
09:45<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: did i show you my NOR signals?
09:46<Sacro>it only goes green when all exits are blocked
09:46<Eddi|zuHause2>i have seen some nor signals, and i find them stupid
09:46<peter1138>Sacro: depends what you want
09:46<Sacro>its quite pointless
09:46<Sacro>peter1138: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=578721#578721 is that allowed?
09:46<peter1138>no idea
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09:58<Brianetta>Well, it's crossposting, but it's also on-topic
09:58<Brianetta>I say escalate the question
09:58<Brianetta>poke Owen
09:58<Sacro>i proded him on #tycoon
09:59<Brianetta>So you did
09:59<Brianetta>I have written two letters in the last four days
09:59<Sacro>now, i need to backup this laptop to my external drive
09:59<Sacro>but im wary of virii
09:59<Brianetta>Strangely enough, I've written two letters in the past decade
09:59<Sacro>i haven't written a letter in ages
09:59<Brianetta>Although I did type one letter up and post that
10:00<Brianetta>I just inherited a gold fountain pen, though
10:00<Sacro>oh damn
10:00<Brianetta>Not gold plated
10:00<Brianetta>gold
10:00<Sacro>i said i'd go into work tommorow
10:00<Brianetta>as in, when you scrath it, it's still gold
10:00<Sacro>but i also told my housemate i'd take her into beverley
10:00<Brianetta>It's beautiful
10:00<Brianetta>and it's scrawley
10:00<Sacro>Brianetta: nice
10:00<Sacro>i got a gold pen for my 18th, never used it though
10:00<Brianetta>Why wouldn't you go to work?
10:00<Brianetta>Use th epen
10:00<Brianetta>The pen is upset
10:00<Sacro>Brianetta: hot housemate :p
10:01<Brianetta>and feels unwanted
10:01<Sacro>i should
10:01<Sacro>its at my mums though i think
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10:01<Brianetta>What sort of pen is it?
10:01<Sacro>err...
10:01<Brianetta>Mine's a Parker 17
10:01<Sacro>yeah, its a parker i belive
10:01<Brianetta>12 carat gold
10:01<Sacro>hmm, dunno how many carats
10:04<Brianetta>http://www.andys-pens.ukhome.net/pa25301.jpg
10:04<Brianetta>That pen, but
10:04<Brianetta>http://www.king-pen.com/park12-07.jpg
10:04<Brianetta>in that finish
10:04<Brianetta>(the top one)
10:05<Sacro>thats the same as the one my mum uses
10:05<Sacro>the 12-07
10:05<Brianetta>Not available any more
10:05<Brianetta>Yeah, that's a ball pen
10:05<Brianetta>in 12 carat gold
10:05<Brianetta>It's the identical finish used on my pen
10:05<Sacro>hers looks more silver
10:05<Brianetta>My pen was used by my grandmother
10:06<Brianetta>My grandfather was presented with it when he retired from the Army as a Sgt Maj
10:06<@Belugas>bic, blue, out of the box
10:06<Brianetta>Belugas: They have a whole set of their own advantages!
10:06<Brianetta>Not least that they cost under 2% of the price
10:07<Brianetta>if you buy them by the box, taht is
10:07<peter1138>viruses!
10:07<Brianetta>I was so chuffed with my pen that I went out and bought Basildon Bond stationery
10:08<Brianetta>Then I wrote to Helen's boss
10:08<Brianetta>and my (other) grandmother
10:09<Sacro>nobody handwrites to me :(
10:09<peter1138>especially not me
10:09<peter1138>mind you
10:09<peter1138>i don't type letters either
10:09<Sacro>i don't really e-mail much either
10:10<Sacro>most of my communications are msn, or irc
10:10<Sacro>i hardly use sms
10:10<Brianetta>SMS is an evil
10:10<hylje>:o
10:10<Brianetta>It takes me ten minutes to tap out a message. When I send one to my sister, she replies with a lengthy message within ten seconds.
10:10<Brianetta>She *HAS* to have some sort of brain interface.
10:10<hylje>or a keyboard
10:10<Zuu>Web SMS is nice, :)
10:11<Zuu>Speed of email, but reaches your friends directly :)
10:11<Brianetta>If they're likely to be holding their phone, I tend to just ring the phone
10:12<Brianetta>I can say a lot more and hang up without even reaching the cost of an SMS
10:13<Zuu>An SMS costs the same as the call connection fee for me, but I usually call anyway unless it is to noisy.
10:14<Eddi|zuHause2>virussians? (*hmm, that sounds funnier in german*)
10:14<Zuu>But I don't think SMS are evil. :)
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11:34<Wolf01>hello
11:34<Thomas[NL]>hi
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11:47<Chrissicom>hi guys :)
11:47<Chrissicom>Rubidium: I've been here because of problems when compiling OpenTTD with VC++ 2005 Express
11:47<Chrissicom>I installed the full Visual Studio 2005 now and the problems are gone
11:47<Chrissicom>so it must have been some kind of config problem :)
11:48|-|eisimoes [~eduardo@200.199.198.225] has joined #openttd
11:49<Chrissicom>I just have one more question
11:49<Chrissicom>when I compile some custom patches in the game, is there anything else I need to replace except the newly compiled openttd.exe in my game folder?
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11:54<@Belugas>language file (*.lng) maybe?
11:57<Wolf01>and grfs if you need
11:57<@Rubidium>*.lng when there are language changes and maybe some GRFs that are required for the patch (and not in trunk)
11:59<Chrissicom>I only want to change the length of the days and implement the alt station patch from Mini IN in the 0.5.1 source that's all :)
11:59<Chrissicom>so no GRFs required but I think there are additional strings in the language file
11:59<Chrissicom>can I change the version numer in the source somehow actually?
11:59<@Rubidium>somewhere at the top of network.h or network.c
12:00<Chrissicom>thx :)
12:01<Wolf01>i'm going to add "invisible trees on ctrl+click on the transparent trees widget" to the transparency options
12:01<Wolf01>anybody have something to say?
12:01<Wolf01>(talk now or STFU forever) :P
12:02<mikegrb>I finally got my old ttd cd out and got the data files yesterday
12:02<mikegrb>I've been playing since then :<
12:02<Chrissicom>that's nice Wolf01
12:02<mikegrb>my boss will be mad
12:02|-|Ekipa kanalu #openttd: Wszystkich: 92 |-| +op [4] |-| +voice [3] |-| normalnych [85]
12:02<Chrissicom>in the miniin you have the option to make only city or only trees invisible instead of everything
12:02<Chrissicom>that's a very nice option
12:03<@Rubidium>Wolf01: maybe I'm not going to like it, maybe I am going to like it... ;) <- so now I don't have to keep quiet forever ;)
12:03<Wolf01>grr :D
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12:11<Thomas[NL]>Wolf01, what will be the difference with normal click on the widgit?
12:11<Wolf01>normal: you toggle the transparency, CTRL: you toggle the invisibility
12:12<Jezral>...aren't those the same, in the long run?
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12:13<Thomas[NL]>ah ok, I always use the Invisible trees patch option :)
12:16<Osai>hello, we have some problems with depots and trains :/ when sending a train to depot we have an assertion
12:16<Osai>openttd: /home/ottdcoop/svn-sandbox/src/vehicle.cpp:2936: void Vehicle::LeaveStation(): Assertion `IsTileType(tile, MP_STATION) || type == VEH_SHIP' failed.
12:16<Osai>the strange thing: no ships in our game
12:16<Osai>we use the latest nightly r9712
12:17<Jezral>Looks like it should have been && instead of ||
12:17<Osai>I'll change it, recompile and test
12:18<peter1138>no, it's not
12:18<peter1138>it's because a the engine of the train was sticking out of the station
12:18<peter1138>-a
12:19<Osai>can this be fixed easily?
12:20<hylje>its been rather known for a while
12:20<hylje>im doubting on oneliner fix
12:22<Maedhros>what's the point of the assert anyway? the tile isn't used in that function at all
12:24<@Rubidium>Jezral: no, because vehicles that leave a station are either on the station tile (aircraft, road vehicles and trains) or are ships (ships are loading when on a water tile)
12:25<peter1138>or not as the case sometimes is
12:27<hylje>yes, when you flip a too long train around
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12:29<dihedral>hello
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12:34<dihedral>just got of the phone with kirk
12:34<dihedral>prindel that is
12:34<dihedral>*prindle
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12:35<dihedral>he forwarded the email on, but has not heard anything himself yet
12:35<dihedral>just thought i'd update you guys
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12:38<@Belugas>thanks dihedral
12:38<Wolf01>uhm... now i got it to work by pressing CTRL after enabling transparent trees
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12:42<dihedral>he also said he will ask for an answer himself, but was very careful not to give any comment whatsoever :-)
12:43<@Belugas>of course...
12:43<@Belugas>does not want to take any responsabilities
12:43<@Belugas>did he said anything about the content itself?
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12:44<dihedral>well - he rememberd the topic very quickly
12:44<@Belugas>good :)
12:44<dihedral>but only gave me the answer that he will ask the people he forwarded the mail to for a responce
12:45<@Belugas>since it's not an urgent issue, it would be best to let them do their internal work, i think
12:46<dihedral>i was not going to bother him any further
12:46<dihedral>just making sure that it has not been dropped
12:46<dihedral>and stickes in the guys head
12:46<@Belugas>cool :)
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12:55<Wolf01>can i mix click and keypress alltogether?
12:56<Wolf01>i think i'm doing a lot of unnecessary work
12:57<Wolf01>eheh
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13:06<Wolf01>now i only need to draw something over a widget.. mission impossible :D
13:07|-|Phazorx [PACO@CPE0011d8690c25-CM001225db7ae8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd
13:07<Phazorx>hola anybody home?
13:08<Wolf01>yes, i'm at home
13:08<Phazorx>that's good :)
13:09<Phazorx>got a minor bug along with suggested fix, wonder if anyone can take a loook at the problem
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13:11<Wolf01>boekabart, nice screenshots :D
13:11<boekabart>thanks
13:12<Wolf01>and very good patch
13:12<Wolf01>i can't wait to play with it
13:12<boekabart>you don't have to
13:12<boekabart>wait
13:12<boekabart>the diff is right there
13:12<Wolf01>i know, but i wait for trunk :P
13:13<boekabart>next thing I want to do (tomorrow i guess) is clean up the code. And I hope someone will make the waterfall gfx.
13:14<Wolf01>yeah, waterfalls ... sloped water :D
13:14<Wolf01>http://paste.openttd.org/54 i think there is a lot of improvement to do, any suggestion?
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13:15<boekabart>last thing i did but didn't publish was a small modification to the flooding algorithm, now waterfalls only flood downwards not sideways. Makes river-designing a bit easier
13:15<Maedhros>Phazorx: what's the bug?
13:15<Wolf01>good
13:15<Phazorx>Maedhros: sending to depot loading train that is longer than station causes assertion at check if train is at station tile
13:15<Phazorx>correction
13:16<Phazorx>sending to depot REVERSED loading train that is longer than station
13:16<Maedhros>oh, that
13:16<Maedhros>yeah, we know that one
13:16<Phazorx>i didnt find it at flyspray
13:16<Phazorx>and i assume it isnt hard to fix
13:17<Phazorx>since i hope trainlength and station size is know so disabling button will do the trick
13:17<Maedhros>nah, it shouldn't assert in the first place
13:18<Phazorx>well it is a logic problem
13:18<Phazorx>check is valid
13:18<Maedhros>no it isn't
13:18<Phazorx>however separating train head beingh at station and loading flags might be a cleaner approach
13:18<Maedhros>the assert happens because when it turns around the train is no longer in the station
13:19<Phazorx>well... but that doesnt stop loading process and train is not moving
13:20<Wolf01>so if i turn around a train which is loading it stops loading because it's not more in the station?
13:20<Maedhros>no
13:20<Maedhros>if the train is longer than the station it will assert when calling v->LeaveStation()
13:20<Phazorx>it wont assert till it reversed
13:21<Phazorx>since headpeice registers at MP_STATION tile
13:21<Wolf01>oh, because the *engine* in not in the stations
13:21<Phazorx>but after reversuing it's outisde
13:21<Maedhros>exactly
13:21<Phazorx>so my idea was make reversing impossibel if it is longer
13:21<Phazorx>since i think the check is proper
13:22<Phazorx>it should confirm that train is at station before leaving it
13:22<Wolf01>the problem is not to make the reversing impossible, but telling a train that is in the station because it is still loading
13:22<Phazorx>perhaps train at station criteria can be extended to
13:22<Phazorx>either phisically or loading
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13:23<Phazorx>Maedhros: should i file the bug btw?
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13:24<Phazorx>Wolf01: making reversing impossible is probably easier to implement
13:24<Phazorx>but i havent seen mich code, actually this is 1st time i looked at it
13:24<Wolf01>but not the correct way
13:24<Maedhros>it might be best to file a bug, so we don't lose track of it, year
13:25<Maedhros>*yeah
13:25<Phazorx>kk will do
13:25<Phazorx>hoping that wont get exploited
13:25<Wolf01>because if somebody has "reverse at stations" enable, it won't do anything
13:25<Maedhros>and it's the check that's wrong; stopping trains reversing only avoids the problem rather than fixing it
13:26<Sacro>ooh an exploit?
13:26<Maedhros>no, just as assert
13:27<Phazorx>well it can be used to crash any server on MP
13:27<Maedhros>that's the risk you take with a nightly server ;)
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13:27<Phazorx>Maedhros: i tihnk 5.1 has it too
13:28<Phazorx>will check ina few
13:30<Maedhros>i've just checked, and it doesn't happen in 0.5.1
13:30<Phazorx>that's good
13:34<Phazorx>actually... will sprite limit wuill ever get increased in official release?
13:34<Phazorx>cuz i'd like to play 5.1 but with DB and LV4
13:34<peter1138>no, we're going to remove it from trunk
13:34<Phazorx>remove spritelimit alltogether?
13:35<peter1138>trunk already no sprite limit
13:35<peter1138>well
13:35<Phazorx>so how come 5.1 has it
13:35<peter1138>technically it does
13:35<peter1138>because 0.5.1 is not trunk
13:35<Phazorx>so back to my question
13:35<Phazorx>will official release have it remvoed soon ?
13:36<peter1138>the next major release will have have trunk features, including the sprite limit changes
13:36<Phazorx>is that like 0.6 ?
13:36<Phazorx>or mroe like 5.2?
13:36<peter1138>yes
13:36<peter1138>no
13:36<Phazorx>i see
13:36<Phazorx>thanks
13:39<Phazorx>well in mean time so i can patch the bug here
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13:40<Phazorx>can i change this: assert(IsTileType(tile, MP_STATION) || type == VEH_SHIP);
13:40<Phazorx>to something that checks loading as well ?
13:41<Phazorx>like assert(IsTileType(tile, MP_STATION) || type == VEH_SHIP || current_order.type == OT_LOADING);
13:42<@Rubidium>then what if you reverse the train when unloading?
13:42<Phazorx>i guess 2 criterias then :)
13:43<@Rubidium>yes, but in that case you can drop the first two, as the last two will always be true...
13:43<Phazorx>why in the hell that check is even there
13:44<Phazorx>however - train can be passing by through statioon as well
13:44<Phazorx>not loading or unloading
13:44<@Rubidium>then it doesn't enter and leave the station
13:44<Phazorx>even better
13:45<Phazorx>so only check of loading/unloading makes sense
13:45<Phazorx>what's the type for unloading then?
13:45<@Rubidium>it's added cause somebody thought that the assert would be usefull when refactoring some code. Apparantly the assert is bogus
13:45<Phazorx>OT_UNLOADING?
13:45<Phazorx>well it's a sanity check
13:45<Wolf01>and what about stopping the train, so it isn't not anymore in the station, reverse it and then restart it all in one tick?
13:45<Phazorx>train should not be elaving the stationunless it is there
13:46<Phazorx>Wolf01: all good
13:46<hylje>Wolf01: the train is not in a station and nothing special happens
13:46<Phazorx>asserting codes is in void Vehicle::LeaveStation()
13:46<@Rubidium>ever thought about the fact that sanity checks aren't always sane?
13:46<@Rubidium>(sadly enough)
13:46<hylje>:>
13:46<Phazorx>Rubidium: kinda defeats the purpose then :)
13:47<Wolf01>do you mean that if you remove the asset it works normally?
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13:47<Wolf01>*assert
13:47<peter1138>yes
13:48<peter1138>OT_LOADING
13:48<Phazorx>peter1138/Rubidium : what is the OT for unloading ?
13:48<@Rubidium>Phazorx: the problem is that there are about two dozen cases where this function is called; all under different circumstances.
13:48<peter1138>none
13:49<peter1138>it's OT_LOADING either way
13:49<Phazorx>Rubidium: i have a feeling all of them are called when train should lave the station
13:49<Phazorx>and quite possible that criteria is good enough
13:50<@Rubidium>Phazorx: and what 'flags' a train to be leaving a station?
13:50<@Rubidium>OT_LOADING could mean that it is still loading and shouldn't leave the station, so do the 'other' parts of the assert
13:50<Phazorx>to be loading or unloading
13:51<Phazorx>exactly so assert is emant to check if train is at station in a first place
13:51<Phazorx>otherwise there is no need to leave
13:51<@Rubidium>precisely
13:51<@Rubidium>adding OT_LOADING doesn't tell whether you are at the station
13:51<Phazorx>condition of being at station most likely match loading/unloading
13:52<Phazorx>it's ot really adding
13:52<Phazorx>code is there on next line
13:52<peter1138>no need to add OT_LOADING, it's already there
13:52<Phazorx>problem is with check before
13:52<Phazorx>whcih checks engine phisical localtion
13:52<peter1138>all the uses look valid
13:52<peter1138>but that's assuming it's in the right place anyway, heh
13:53<@Rubidium>Phazorx: and that check is totally bogus as trains (engines) can apparantly be outside of the station when leaving the station
13:53<Phazorx>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/747
13:57<peter1138>as i said (somewhere, i'm sure)
13:57<peter1138>should just remove it
13:58<boekabart>LOL I just had to PM sergej_s for something; what I did was write in english and used translate.google.com to translate it into Russian. So he'll know how we feel all the time ;)
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13:59<@Rubidium>boekabart: hope you did translate it first to spanish, then to german and then to russian ;)
13:59<boekabart>rofl
13:59<@Rubidium>maybe add japanese and swahili too
14:00<boekabart>google can DO that!?
14:00<@Rubidium>don't know
14:00<@Rubidium>but the worse the russian, the better you make your point... automatic translators suck as they do not understand any of the context needed to do proper translations
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14:01<Thomas[NL]>can transparent water be made for non 32bpp openttd?
14:02<boekabart>i think yes
14:02<hylje>we still have non 32bpp ottd?
14:02<peter1138>yes if you're brave
14:02<boekabart>there exists transparent roofs, right
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14:03<peter1138>you need a recolour map to make it blueish, instead of darker
14:03<hylje>for non-32bpp i'd think blue seafloor would do it
14:03<boekabart>the trick is to choose the right colors and set the palette for drawing to PAL_TRANPARENT
14:04<boekabart>i know that PAL_TRANSPARENT for the sea-blue will just draw 'blue' (1 color blue)
14:05<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9714 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r8110): Remove invalid assertion triggered by overly long trains being reversed while loading.
14:05<hylje>zomg!
14:05<hylje>the bug description is priceless though :>
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14:35<mikegrb>somewhere around year 2020 it stopped letting me build helicopters :<
14:35<mikegrb>my heloports are useless!
14:35<hylje>stop vehicles from expiring
14:35<mikegrb>I built a couple of new ones and then went to build a chopper :<
14:35<hylje>in patch opts
14:35<mikegrb>oh?
14:35<mikegrb>k
14:36<mikegrb>thanks
14:36<hylje>yw
14:36<hylje>its a feature
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14:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: miham * r9715 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
14:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-04-24 21:45:15
14:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: italian - 2 changed by lorenzodv (2)
14:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: portuguese - 9 fixed by izhirahider (9)
14:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: russian - 3 fixed, 328 changed by HMage (331)
14:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 7 fixed by Fishingsnow (7)
14:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 1 changed by xbddc (1)
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14:47<mikegrb>yeah I can understand how it is intended, was just surprised
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14:59<Phazorx>for these who use google for translating to russian - dont
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15:00<Phazorx>if you want to know what it does - translate it back to where it came form, yes this is as bad as it looks
15:01<Rubidium>Phazorx: we know Sergej_S and he does that all the time...
15:02<Rubidium>and Sergej_S doesn't understand us nor do we understand him
15:02<+glx>at least he starts to use the translation fix advices :)
15:02<Phazorx>well i know both russian and english, online translator applied to any technical text is not working
15:02<Phazorx>use HMage or myself if you want to translate :)
15:03[~]HMage is a brain-manipulated translation bot, private query with "hey b@#$h translate me this - blahblahblah" and the bot will translate that promptly (if not properly, though:)
15:04<peter1138>TO ME
15:04<peter1138>To MEEEEEE
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15:06<HMage>I hope it was worthy fixing those 300+ lines
15:08<Phazorx>HMage: are you still running your server?
15:08<Phazorx>i wasnt able to connect ver
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15:08<HMage>it wasn't my server :)
15:08|-|Guest20 [~knoppix@202.pool80-102-170.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #openttd
15:09<Phazorx>well whatever it was where you invited me i never got there :)
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15:11<HMage>actually I guess it was for the best :) that server was a monumental failure :)
15:11<HMage>I immediatedly started building in ottdcoop-style, which was quite a bit too much for russian users.
15:12<HMage>"two lanes? wtf do we need this?", "why do we need 3-tile long trains if we can take all cargo with 10-tile one?", etc
15:12<Phazorx>well :)
15:12<Phazorx>coop is different style
15:13<Phazorx>btw check this http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/2007/04/22/express-and-local-ml-separation/
15:13<peter1138>h,,
15:13<Phazorx>i got 550 train on single 900 tile lane
15:13<HMage>Phazorx: yup, i've read that.
15:13<Phazorx>model works pretty good
15:14<HMage>http://forums.ttdrussia.net/viewtopic.php?t=2052&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 -- read from first post to last. :)
15:14<Phazorx>okay will do that
15:14<Phazorx>Alver != HMage ?
15:15<HMage>that's true
15:15<HMage>I'm HMage there
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15:16<Phazorx>is alver keen on dooing it coop style tho ?
15:16<HMage>yup, but he doesn't have any time
15:17<Phazorx>for playing or setting it up?
15:17<HMage>both
15:17<HMage>read on
15:17<Phazorx>okay sorry :)
15:22<dihedral>night ladies
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15:46<@Belugas>bye bye
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17:34<TheJosh>Hey how does networking work in openttd?
17:38<Sacro_>TheJosh: black magic
17:38<Sacro_>PBIMOTTD XD
17:38<TheJosh>is it going to get a rewrite oneday (out of interest)?
17:39<Sacro_>not that i know of
17:39<Rubidium>why does it need a rewrite?
17:40<TheJosh>i assumed when Sacro said black magic he meant it was just holding together
17:40<TheJosh>must a misinterpriation, my bad
17:41<Rubidium>Sacro_ isn't a developer...
17:41<Rubidium>and I wonder whether he actually knows how the network protocol works
17:41<TheJosh>Oh ok sorry.
17:41<TheJosh>I have not been doing this long, sorry I dont know much
17:42<Sacro_>Rubidium: :o what about "Sacros daylength patch"
17:43<Rubidium>should I laugh?
17:44<Sacro_>:o
17:44<Sacro_>it was the best 3 line patch i've seen yet
17:44<Rubidium>replacing every daylength constant you find in the code with something to make daylength configurable
17:45<Sacro_>originally it was just going to affect the #define
17:45<Rubidium>very useful if you want to make the chat messages stay like 32 times longer..., but not what should happen
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17:45<ln->TheJosh: the networking has already been rewritten.
17:46<Rubidium>the real question is, what about the network do you want to know?
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17:50<Wolf01>[00:42:22] <Sacro_> Rubidium: :o what about "Sacros daylength patch" <- lol :D
17:51<Wolf01>U_U i just updated to ubuntu F and the ethernet interface doesn't work
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17:52<TheJosh>I want to be able to so something on one computer and have it show up on another...currently it desyncs
17:53<TheJosh>its going through DoCommandP, but it still decyncs
17:53<TheJosh>it is code for fund a town
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17:55<Rubidium>before a command is send over the network it is ran once with DC_EXEC unset in flags
17:56<Rubidium>later it is ran again with DC_EXEC set in flags on all clients; the one with DC_EXEC unset is only on the sending client
17:57<Rubidium>as the Random must be the same for all clients (that's the way the network algorithm can be as efficient as it is now), you cannot call Random when DC_EXEC is unset
17:58<TheJosh>Ok now you have lost me, sorry.
17:59<Rubidium>what don't you understand?
18:00<Rubidium>it's (fairly) simple, the 'command' is ran once before sending it to the server to test whether it is actually allowed. In that 'test'-phase you cannot call Random.
18:01<Rubidium>later, once the server has received the command and send it to all clients, all client execute the command and then they may call Random (as the command is then executed at all clients at the same time)
18:01<Rubidium>this because Random must be the same for all clients, due to the network protocol
18:02<Rubidium>(or rather, the whole gamestate must be the same for all clients)
18:03<TheJosh>so my CmdBuildTown is called with a flag set, and when that flag is set, i cant do anything that uses random
18:03<Rubidium>basically yes
18:04<Rubidium>though you may only call random when DC_EXEC is set and you may *not* use random when DC_EXEC is *not* set
18:04<TheJosh>alright
18:04<TheJosh>thanks
18:05<Rubidium>basically the problem is CreateTownName
18:05<Rubidium>but...
18:06<TheJosh>yes
18:06<Rubidium>the function may not give errors when the DC_EXEC flag is set, thus you must use some method to make sure you can make a town name
18:07<TheJosh>the code has this line
18:07<TheJosh> if (flags & DC_EXEC) {
18:07<TheJosh>DoCreateTown(t, tile, townnameparts, (TownSizeMode)p2, p1);
18:07<TheJosh>}
18:08<Rubidium>without the use of Random, that makes it impossible that CreateTownName gives an error when DC_EXEC is set
18:08<TheJosh>DoCreateTown does not return any errors though
18:09<Rubidium>no, but CreateTownName does when it cannot find a town name
18:10<Rubidium>so what you should do is pass the townnameparts into the command and generate those townnameparts before doing the DoCommandP and check in the CmdBuildTown whether the townnameparts give a unique town name
18:11<TheJosh>ok
18:11<Rubidium>(you can use InteractiveRandom if the code isn't called from a command)
18:13<TheJosh>I told it to just not execute the generate name on test, and the network is fine now
18:14<Rubidium>until you run out of town names and all clients crash
18:14<TheJosh>can i just check the number of town names is valid, without using random?
18:15<TheJosh>and check that on the test call ?
18:15<+glx>it depends on the townname language
18:15<+glx>some have more available names than others
18:15<+glx>but I don't know if there's a way to know how many
18:16<Rubidium>there is one
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18:16<Rubidium>just pass every value from 0..2^32-1 into the namegen function
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18:17<TheJosh>2^32 - 1? that is a big number
18:17<+glx>and count all the non-duplicate?
18:17<Rubidium>yup (for both)
18:17<TheJosh>a function like that could take quite a while
18:18<Rubidium>therefor you shouldn't do that
18:20<TheJosh>i will do what Rubidium suggested earlier
18:20<TheJosh>thanks for all your help
18:20<TheJosh>im off now, things to do, people to see
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18:21<TheJosh>thanks for all your help
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18:22<Rubidium>he should be happy that CmdBuildTown exists :)
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18:31<ln->2^32-1 isn't that much when one can use a computer.
18:33<ln->even if all of those names (including duplicates) were saved in a file, it would take only roughly 40 GB.
18:37<ln->considering that the number of possible names is small, it can be kept in memory and duplicates dropped immediately.
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18:47<Wolf01>'night
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20:02<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: in what kind of memory do you want to store 40GB?
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20:40|-|glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye]
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21:36|-|Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> panulirus.oftc.net quits: lugo, Rubidium, lolman, Eddi|zuHause3, eJoJ
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21:54|-|mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
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---Logclosed Wed Apr 25 00:00:23 2007