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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-05-04

---Logopened Fri May 04 00:00:18 2007
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01:58<elmex>re
01:58<elmex>Eddi|zuHause2: did you see my last try at the bridge?
01:58<elmex>err.. junction
02:04<elmex>and could someone tell me why the layout in the wiki is completly broken?
02:05<elmex>http://www.ta-sa.org/files/sc/ttd_brokenlayoutwiki.png
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02:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9775 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: Remove arbitrary limit on length of NewGRF strings.
02:10<peter1138>it's not broken, it's... advanced
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02:13<elmex>lol??
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02:22<elmex>somehow building bridges on diagonals doesn't look very realistic ;-/
02:22<elmex>http://www.ta-sa.org/files/sc/ttd_bridgejunction8.png
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02:26<elmex>i don't like that junction, it makes trains that go right fast and trains that go straight slow
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02:41<Wolf01>hello
02:41<Patrick>well, tune your junctions for which way is the most importan
02:41<Patrick>and it's a junction, so the main line will get periodically interrupted anyway
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03:00<peter1138>pompiedom
03:01<Rubidium>lalala
03:01<peter1138>i was looking back through pre-r1000 newgrf stuff
03:02<peter1138>it's... funny
03:02<peter1138>blatantly trying to get a couple of sets working rather than following the spec...
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03:22<Ashley>I give up, there seems to be something wrong with the grfs in the openttcoop grf pack. I've downloaded and installed them but I'm still getting four grf mismatches, any ideas on how to fix it?
03:22<Ammller>Ashley: for what are you using this pack?
03:23<peter1138>it worked for me
03:23<Ashley>Trying to join the Sandbox server
03:23|-|raimar3 [~hawk@p5489F89E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
03:23<peter1138>did you restart ottd after installing them?
03:24<Ashley>Several times, the same four keep complaining
03:25<Ammller>I can't believe, that its still possible to join with wrong grf's.
03:27<Ammller>Ashley: when did you download the pack?
03:27<Ashley>About half an hour ago
03:28<Ammller>from here: http://openttdcoop.ammler.ch ?
03:28<Ashley>Yes
03:28<Ashley>Perhaps I downloaded the wrong one?
03:29<Ammller>there is no wrong one, not that I know of
03:29<Ammller>which one did you take
03:30<Ashley>Hmm, we may be on to something here. The first one ending in .exe
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03:31<Ammller>btw, join #openttdcoop
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03:45<elmex>hm
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03:47<elmex>peter1138: hm, are you a main developer?
03:48<TrueBrain>elmex: you do know there is a very pretty website which defines who is what inside OpenTTD developers blabla
03:48<TrueBrain>?
03:48<elmex>nope
03:48<TrueBrain>try www.openttd.org
03:48<TrueBrain>you might like it
03:49<elmex>i know that website, but does that contain a mapping of irc-nicks to developers?
03:49<TrueBrain>if you just would have looked around....
03:50<peter1138>why bother looking when you can ask :)
03:50<elmex>TrueBrain: i'm sorry, i've never looked in the 'Contact' section
03:50<TrueBrain>peter1138: in that case, I have many questions for you..... :p
03:50<TrueBrain>elmex: :)
03:50<peter1138>by some rare coincidence, i do happen to be the same peter1138 as listed in the credits...
03:50<elmex>ah :-)
03:50<peter1138>TrueBrain: the answer is yes, no, and maybe.
03:51<TrueBrain>yes, you do own me money, no, you are not giving it back, and maybe you want to die for it
03:51<TrueBrain>hmm
03:51<TrueBrain>okay :p
03:51<TrueBrain>own = owe
03:51<peter1138>no, i own your money
03:51<peter1138>mwahaha
03:51<TrueBrain>:'(
03:51<TrueBrain>See, there things go wrong
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03:57<elmex>uh, extending the gui isn't a trivial task
03:58<elmex>i would love to implement a 'estimated income' thingie in the train detail
03:58<elmex>s
04:01<elmex>i guess i will do it when i have more concentration ;/
04:02<TrueBrain>I doubt you can make an estimated income value that is ever reached for real
04:02<elmex>yes, but it is still useful imo
04:03<TrueBrain>and then I mean that I doubt it will be even near the value estimated :)
04:04<elmex>well, i think more of a 'estimated income at next stop' thingie
04:04<TrueBrain>without breakdowns, you can estimate that, sort of
04:04<elmex>yes
04:05<elmex>its woudl just be an estimation of course after all :-)
04:06<Rubidium>elmex: the estimated income thingy is useless, because you really cannot estimate at the moment you leave
04:06<elmex>estimation is always possible
04:06<elmex>even the constant 0 would be an estimation :-)
04:06<TrueBrain>let's talk about an estimate that is no more wrong then 3% of the real value
04:06<Rubidium>that is an useless estimation
04:07<Rubidium>(about elmex' 0)
04:07<elmex>yes
04:08<elmex>but an estimation that becomes better as the vehicle gets nearer to the station would be possible
04:08<elmex>or ok. lets not call it estimated income but 'cargo value'
04:09<elmex>you could calc the current theoretical income with the distance you have from the station of the cargo and the current time
04:09<Rubidium>elmex: the only thing you can do is give the cargo value at the travelled distance/time since departure. No more, no less, because all other estimates are going to be totally crap
04:09<elmex>yes
04:09<elmex>ok
04:10<Rubidium>ofcourse for transfered cargo that's going to be pretty tricky
04:11<elmex>why?
04:12<Rubidium>because you need to calculate multiple travelled distance/times and apply some math to get the correct cargo value
04:13<elmex>hmm
04:13<elmex>damn, i've too few time ;-/
04:15<elmex>i just would love to have more help with finding out how much of the income of a train is decimated by the time
04:16<TrueBrain>I can understand that you do, it is just a bit tricky in current model :)
04:17<elmex>:)
04:19<elmex>hm, the fixed pixel guil layout sometimes breaks with translation in german
04:19<elmex>s/guil/gui/
04:20<elmex>lol, i've just found this on a server: http://www.ta-sa.org/files/sc/ttd_headquarter_train.png
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04:25<elmex>hm it's really painful when you build a network all day and then you have to leave the server
04:25<elmex>at least it's possible to do a savegame
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05:05<waroffice>lo
05:05<waroffice>im stuck with developing
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05:08<Patrick>give us time
05:11<elmex>:)
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05:25<elmex>this heightmap thingie is really scary: http://www.ta-sa.org/files/sc/ttd_heightmap.png :-)
05:26<Rubidium>;)
05:27<Rubidium>I'd bulldoze your head, so you get rid of the water ;)
05:30<Patrick>hahaha, that's hilarious
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05:36<elmex>hm
05:37<elmex>i would love a heightmap of germany, so one could do a scenario for it ;/
05:44<Patrick>yes, freight trains full of passengers in germany
05:44<Patrick>because that always ends well
05:45<peter1138>who what?
05:46<Patrick>design a custom industry to turn passengers into luggage and gold teeth
05:50<elmex>?
05:50<elmex>lol
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06:06<Osai^zZz>hi all
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06:26<elmex>i geuss this would be another possibility with a 4 way junction: http://www.ta-sa.org/files/sc/ttd_bridgejunction10.png
06:26<elmex>onfortunately one line is slowed down by a long bridge where the other is slowed down by bridge+tunnel
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06:27<Progman>this junction looks cool anyway ;)
06:28<elmex>i havent tested it yet
06:28<elmex>but it doesn't consume much space
06:28<elmex>and isn't that hard to build i guess
06:29<elmex>compare it to: http://www.ta-sa.org/files/sc/ttd_bridgejunction8.png
06:29<elmex>that one is more symmetric, which means: each line has the same slowdown
06:30<elmex>the junction8 als has no 90degree turns
06:30<elmex>(the junction10 could be extended to prevent 90 degree turns of course)
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06:34<neli>elmex: but it has no signalling
06:35<elmex>i guess the signalling can be added in an actual application :)
06:35<neli>but there are splits+bridges
06:35<neli>that do not allow signal after split
06:36<elmex>you mean at the end of the yellow ones?
06:37<elmex>ah
06:41<elmex>neli: http://www.ta-sa.org/files/sc/ttd_bridgejunction8_2.png - i guesss this one should do
06:42<Patrick>wherever possible, you should land the longer bridges, put signals there, then do another bridge
06:42<Patrick>the junction gets bigger but throughput goes up
06:42<elmex>yes, thats right
06:43<neli>elmex: ah I see the bridges were too long anyway
06:43<elmex>neli: yea
06:43<elmex>Patrick: in the end it all depends on the space you have
06:43<neli>elmex: wait, you're missing a signal on the topright gray bridge
06:44<elmex>neli: oh, damn, i knew it :)
06:44<elmex>well
06:45<neli>it has space for it though
06:45<Patrick>http://patrickthomson.ath.cx/junction.png
06:45<elmex>a cloverleaf would be smaller
06:45<Patrick>that's what I came up with
06:45<Patrick>the template, so it's got no signals
06:46<elmex>yep
06:46<Patrick>join up the middle with bridges whichever way you want
06:46<elmex>it even fits into the same space
06:46<Patrick>grow it bigger if you want 10-car trains to turn fast with realistic acceleration
06:46<Patrick>remember, 7 angled bits for 8-car, 9 angled bits for 10-car
06:47<Patrick>the distance tool gets it right
06:47<elmex>distnace tool?
06:47<Patrick>some option shows you the distance on every drag-drop rail laying
06:47<elmex>ah
06:48<Patrick>see also http://patrickthomson.ath.cx/tjunction.png
06:48<Patrick>for a three-way
06:48<Patrick>I also have designs where some of the branches are at angles
06:48<elmex>ah, yes
06:49<elmex>damn, why didn't i come up with http://patrickthomson.ath.cx/junction.png ;-/
06:49<elmex>it's way more simple
06:49<peter1138>but... the middle!
06:49<Patrick>like I said, hook it up how you want
06:49<elmex>the middle needs bridges :)
06:49<Patrick>that was one I just played with
06:49<Patrick>bridge it whichever way has less traffic
06:49<Patrick>although technically that doesn't matter
06:50<Patrick>the best junction, ideally, is one where you can specify one route that's high-capacity and that one doesn't get its signal spacing interrupted
06:50<peter1138>or use cheating tunnels, heh
06:50<Patrick>and in this respect I've failed
06:50<elmex>well, i've failed too :)
06:50<neli>Patrick: how to go from bottom to right ?
06:51<Patrick>which junction?
06:51<Patrick>it should work
06:52<Patrick>there are hardly any signals, sorry
06:52<Patrick>I do left-hand drive but that won't make a difference
06:53<peter1138>hmm, i still need to fix that up/down bug
06:53<Patrick>--> le shop
06:56<RobertGrammig>the calculation of passenger or good value is done based on the closest distance of one station complex to the other one, right?
06:57<elmex>it's the manhattan distance between the stations, yes
06:57<Patrick>but where is the station position taken from
06:57<elmex>Patrick: well, http://patrickthomson.ath.cx/junction.png could be build with tunnels too
06:57<Patrick>I always thought it was the position of the station's sign
06:57<Patrick>elmex: ugly though
06:57<Patrick>and take up too much space unlessyou use build on slope
06:57<Patrick>and slop building is ugly so I turn it off
06:58<antichaos>Patrick I think it is from the tile you clicked on when you placed the station
06:58<Patrick>yes.
06:58<elmex>Patrick: oh, ok, it's on per default, so i take it as granted :)
06:58<Patrick>and then you can "ladder" the station around
06:58<RobertGrammig>manhattan distance?
06:59<Patrick>X + y
06:59<Patrick>not pythagorean distance, (x**2 + y**2) ** 0.5
06:59<Patrick>means that diagonal runs are root2 more profitable
06:59<RobertGrammig>ok I see that is fai
06:59<elmex>:)
06:59<RobertGrammig>fair
06:59<Patrick>it's not, it's exploitable :/
06:59<Patrick>anyway
07:00<RobertGrammig>Its a bit stupid that you dont take the nearest station tiles though
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07:01<RobertGrammig>that way you can really easily shorten the actual track the train has to run
07:01<antichaos>That would take alot of extra time to calculate
07:05<RobertGrammig>but wouldnt it be possible to make the payoff propotional to the distance between the place where the train did unload the goods and the station tile that is used to calculate the distance?
07:06<RobertGrammig>and you should be able to set the relevant tile as well, of course
07:07<RobertGrammig>for example payoff will be decreased by 5% for each tile that the arrival tile of the train is away from the central tile of the station complex
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07:09<elmex>??
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07:13<RobertGrammig>I can found, for example, a station A and a station B with both being 50 X tiles and 10 Y tiles apart. Now I build additional station blocks to reduce the actual track distance the train has to cover is 48 X tiles and 0 Y tiles, but I still get the 50+10= 60 tile difference payout, right?
07:17<elmex>hm, will the copy/paste patch ever get into openttd?
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08:01<@Belugas>hello
08:01<Wolf01>hi
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09:11<Touqen>Give me your soul!
09:11<Touqen>cough...
09:13<hylje>no
09:13<@Belugas>only my wife and my boss give me orders
09:13<@Belugas>so, no
09:14<Touqen>Darn...
09:14[~]Touqen will try again in a week
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09:19<Touqen>So...How's PBS coming along?
09:21<@Belugas>nowhere
09:21<@Belugas>or so i think,
09:21<@Belugas>unless someone is working on it secretly
09:21<Touqen>Boo.
09:22<peter1138>y7eah
09:22<Touqen>I know that it was to be implemented on YAPF and YAPF seems to have gotten quite far since the last forum post regarding PBS.
09:27<peter1138>but not pbs though
09:47<Touqen>hmmm...
09:56<RobertGrammig>does my reputation in a town have an impact on the number of passengers I get?
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10:08<Sionide>RobertGrammig, no.. only on the councils leaniency in letting you build round their town
10:08<Sionide>RobertGrammig, if you want more passengers, fund an advertising campaign (by clicking the name of the town)
10:22<Cipri>Is there any newGRF that contains bridges the Cimaera can take at full speed(643kph)? Max tube bridge has a 611kph speed limit.
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10:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r9776 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AITileListSlope as valuator to see if tiles are flat or not
10:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r9777 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: renamed AITileListFlat to AITileListSlope and returnt he slope value
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11:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r9778 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix r9776: forgot to update regression output (tnx glx)
11:03<SpComb>but did you remember to submit a regression test for this omission?
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11:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r9779 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
11:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature: Add the possiblity to choose different road patterns for towns to use.
11:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Possible patterns are :
11:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: No Road (not available in scenario editor)
11:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Original (for the nostalgics)
11:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Better Roads (same as original, but based on distance of 2 tiles instead of one)
11:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: 2x2 grids
11:29<hylje>what about 2-tile-wide town roads?
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>go code them? :)
11:29<hylje>wut no
11:29<hylje>maybe someday
11:30<peter1138>woo :D
11:30<hylje>2-wide roads could make big towns seem really big
11:30<peter1138>2-wide roads are a job for the scenario editor, and SAC :D
11:30<hylje>sac=?
11:30<peter1138>SAC!
11:30<hylje>omg sac
11:34<hylje>hm
11:34<hylje>does SDL get massive boost from architecture optimization?
11:34<hylje>on my gentoo install ottd was snappy and all, on ubuntu it seems just sluggish
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11:38<@Belugas>mmmh
11:38<@Belugas>following :
11:39<@Belugas>3x3 grids
11:39<@Belugas>Patch by skiddl13
11:39<hylje>:D
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11:41<antichaos>Belugas I've got the shared delivery patch ready.
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11:42<@Belugas>nice :)
11:42<@Belugas>send it, please
11:45<antichaos>just putting some details in an email
11:50<hylje>r we getting patches to trunk?
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>no, patches never ever go to trunk
11:53<hylje>thats why i'm most astonished
11:54<@Belugas>we've been paid
11:55<@Belugas>antichaos: got it, thanks
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12:03<@Belugas>antichaos, function comment starts with /** and should end with <NEWLINE><SPACE>*/
12:03<@Belugas>just starting reading...
12:04<@Belugas>on the second line of a if (), add another indent
12:04<@Belugas>very nice and descriptive comments :)
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12:11<@Belugas>antichaos: looks pretty nice
12:11<antichaos>where's the bad if?
12:11<@Belugas>on ShareGoodsToIndustry
12:12<@Belugas>so, ind->accepts_cargo[1] = +1 tab
12:12<@Belugas>same for 2
12:13<@Belugas>and "total_tiles += (*iter)..." + -1 tab
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12:13<@Belugas>and "total_tiles += (*iter)..." = -1 tab
12:13<@Belugas>sorry
12:13<@Belugas>same for iter++
12:13<antichaos>ah ok
12:13<@Belugas>code style, really...
12:13<@Belugas>i need to check it at home tonigh, for the rest
12:15<@Belugas>are you sure "te->params_2 = GetDParam(4);" is a bug, by the way?
12:16<@Belugas>waht's the implications?
12:16<@Belugas>if ever it gets called?
12:16<antichaos>GetDparam(4) could be junk
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12:17<antichaos>since they aren't cleared after use.
12:18<antichaos>obviously you could work around it by calling SetDParam(4) for your second argument
12:18<@Belugas>ok
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12:21<@Belugas>about the DeliverGoodsToIndustry, since it is standard behaviour, i think it should still be available,
12:21<@Belugas>but this is open to discussion
12:22<antichaos>I'll put in a setting to switch between them, then we can compare performance and behaviour.
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12:25<@Belugas>indeed
12:25<@Belugas>but for now, let's just resume work@work
12:25<@Belugas>and thanks again
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12:45<peter1138>hmm, yes
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13:38<dihedral>hello there
13:38<TrueBrain>hi dihedral
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13:58<peter1138>well i never
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14:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9780 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: [NewGRF] Add support for variable vehicle weight for trains (callback 36, property 16)
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14:28<Ammler>peter1138: did you fix the grf problem?
14:28<peter1138>not yet
14:28<Ammler>ok, thx anyway :)
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14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r9781 /branches/noai/ (10 files in 4 dirs):
14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AIVehicleListProfit[This|Last]Year as valuator
14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AIVehicleList(Max)Age(Left) (3 functions) valuators
14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AIVehicleList and some valuators
14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added regression test for AIVehicleList
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15:11<Wolf01>how much far is the development for noai?
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15:22<Eddi|zuHause>i doubt it is anywhere close to finished...
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15:27<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/blog/?p=7 <- Wolf01: I just wrote a piece about it
15:28<Wolf01>yeah, now stations, tomorrow the world!
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>only together with TruePinky :)
15:36<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I am still wondering when someone nicks itself like that :)
15:36<TrueBrain>"What are we going to do today Brain?"
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>i was actually wondering if i should, but i am too much of a brain myself to pose as pinky ;)
15:40<TrueBrain>I love 'git' :)
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15:47<Eddi|zuHause>hm, is that a word i should recognise?
15:48<TrueBrain>if you do 'svn' and 'cvs', yes
15:48<TrueBrain>if you do 'linux kernel development', yes
15:48<TrueBrain>if you do 'wine development', yes
15:48<TrueBrain>if you do 'vlc development', yes
15:48<TrueBrain>:p
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>i rarely do any of that :)
15:50<Wolf01>that's all folks, for today, night
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16:10<Zuu>I've made a scenario in the scenario editor to ensure the map is good. Then when I start a dedicated server with it using the -g flag an "unnamed" company is created. Is this a feature or a bug?
16:11<+glx>-D -g or -g -D ?
16:11<Zuu>-D -g
16:12<Zuu>So it should be in reverse order?
16:12<Zuu>Tried -g -D, same problem.
16:13<TrueBrain>and '-g' without a map behind it?
16:13<TrueBrain>(so just: ./openttd -D -g)
16:13<Zuu>I have a map behind -g, but I'll try w/o.
16:13<TrueBrain>why I ask: the bug can be in two places, this rules out one :)
16:14<Zuu>-g -D or -D -g without a map gives no unnamed company.
16:15<TrueBrain>so the problem is when loading the scenario :) Most likely it isn't dedicated-server aware :)
16:15<TrueBrain>make a bug report :)
16:15<Zuu>Shall I upload my openttd.cfg + scenario?
16:15<Zuu>Okay, bugreport will be :)
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16:18<Zuu>hmm, happens on default openttd.cfg.. but no worry, there will be a bugreport soon :)
16:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r9782 /branches/noai/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: add information functions to AIVehicle, like the valuators of AIVehicleList
16:29<Zuu>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/765
16:29<TrueBrain>Zuu: I already noticed ;)
16:29<Zuu>TrueBrain: Hehe :)
16:29<TrueBrain>[23:29] <_42_> Flyspray: [FS#765] New Bug Report (sev: Low, prio: Normal): 'Unnamed company when starting dedicated server...', by Leif Linse - http://bugs.openttd.org/task/765
16:29<TrueBrain>:)
16:30<Zuu>Is that from the top secret dev-channel? :p
16:31<TrueBrain>haha, top secret it is not, but it is on a side-channel yes, as we don't want to spam that information in here (yet)
16:32<Zuu>Well, the channel name is not sateted anywere I've been looking at least. But probably it is just to guess some names :)
16:33<+glx>Zuu: you can use your irc client to find it ;)
16:33<TrueBrain>you won't 'guess' it, but there is also no need to be there :p Most people who have been there, run away VERY fast :)
16:33<TrueBrain>all except XeryusTC, but oh well "onkruid vergaat niet" :p :p :p
16:33[~]TrueBrain pets XeryusTC
16:34<XeryusTC>huh?
16:34<TrueBrain>hahahahaha :)
16:34[~]XeryusTC slaps TrueBrain with -18°C
16:34<TrueBrain>I went to the beach today :)
16:34<TrueBrain>it was cold, but fun :)
16:34<XeryusTC>i got "ingewerkt" in the freezer today :P
16:34<XeryusTC>and i was sweating like a pig
16:34<TrueBrain>lol :)
16:35<XeryusTC>and that was with my jacket open
16:37[~]Zuu was on a lecture about traffic modeling yesterday
16:37<XeryusTC>i need to do some work on my AI once again
16:37<XeryusTC>but then, i also need to do homework :P
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16:37<Zuu>I reread the list of API-classes and it have grown a bit since last. :)
16:38<XeryusTC>yeah
16:38<TrueBrain>slowly, it is :)
16:38<XeryusTC>well, it's time to use the TileList :P
16:38<XeryusTC>so i can reincarnate my old AI somewhat
16:38<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=noai/.git;a=blob;f=bin/ai/tb/main.nut;h=84b1fcab3a5dfa7d1fdaf23c386dda725f2bd1e8;hb=tb
16:38<TrueBrain>my attempt so far :)
16:38<XeryusTC>which was even more stupid than the default TT ai i must say
16:38<Zuu>TrueBrain: Have you concidered to add some way to populate a TileList with tiles from a town?
16:39<TrueBrain>Zuu: what exactly do you mean?
16:39<XeryusTC>it isnt possible to populate a TL?
16:39<Zuu>As it is now you can only get the town centre and guess the town radius to calculate a rectangle that you then add.
16:40<Zuu>right?
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16:40<TrueBrain>town radius is always guessing
16:40<XeryusTC>TrueBrain: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31789
16:40<TrueBrain>you want to get all the tiles the town own or something?
16:40<Zuu>With buildings or town road on.
16:40<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=noai/.git;a=blob;f=bin/ai/tb/main.nut;hb=tb <- ha, even better :)
16:41<TrueBrain>Zuu: town radius isn't predefined, so that is almost impossible
16:41<TrueBrain>scanning the whole map is too expensive
16:41<Zuu>Well, I will probably not use it in close future, so don't implement it because I said it now. :)
16:42<TrueBrain>Zuu: such functions should be called with great care, so I rather not add them at all :p
16:42<Zuu>:)
16:42<TrueBrain>I just made a 14x14 rectangle around city-core
16:42<Zuu>Just though that it is something that many AIs would like to do :)
16:42<TrueBrain>but I agree that it is a bit of gambling :)
16:43<TrueBrain>my AI makes 2k profit per bus, local city routes only
16:43<TrueBrain>not bad :)
16:43<Zuu>:)
16:43<XeryusTC>nice :)
16:43<TrueBrain>try to beat it ;)
16:43<XeryusTC>my AI sets its name from a predefined list :P
16:44<XeryusTC>oh, and one of the persons on that list died :'(
16:44<TrueBrain>auch
16:44<XeryusTC>actually, the person the AI is called after :P
16:44<XeryusTC>TrueBrain: it is just an anime, although it rocks all other animes :P
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16:46<Zuu>XeryusTC: Well, stop watching the anime and build her up again :p :)
16:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r9783 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: make naming more consistent between Valuators: don't add Get before them.
16:47<XeryusTC>Zuu: i'll probably get special lenses in her honor :P
16:47<XeryusTC>blood red :9
16:48<XeryusTC>i should first get colorless lenses though :P
16:48<Zuu>hehe, got glases now?
16:49<XeryusTC>yes
16:49<XeryusTC>until monday :P
16:49<Zuu>hehe
16:54<Zuu>I'm a lucky one, I got nither glases nor lenses. :)
16:54<TrueBrain>me neither :)
16:54<Zuu>But I got two DSPs :)
16:57<TrueBrain>My AI is dying :)
16:58<TrueBrain>I really do need station managing
16:58<Zuu>More features in a DSP than in siple lenses :)
16:58<Zuu>TrueBrain: as in amout of buses?
16:58<TrueBrain>Zuu: no, -3k profit per year in total
16:58<TrueBrain>mostly because of full loan
16:59<Zuu>You could copy my ugly bank acount manager or write your own :)
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17:00<Zuu>But that only helps as in not loaning to much in the begining. :)
17:01<Zuu>It won't stop you from using up all your money or take a maximum loan.
17:02<XeryusTC>Zuu: what's a DSP?
17:02<Zuu>XeryusTC: Digital Sound Processor
17:02<XeryusTC>oh
17:02<XeryusTC>i've got 2 of those too :P
17:02<Zuu>So, if you have not guessed yet, hearing aids :)
17:02<XeryusTC>in my pc though :P
17:03<XeryusTC>:o
17:06<setrodox>Zuu, Signal, not Sound
17:06<setrodox>atleast in the common definition of dsp
17:06<Zuu>setrodox: Okay :)
17:06<setrodox>sorry, didn't want to sound nit picky xD
17:06<Zuu>setrodox: No problem..
17:07<setrodox>:)
17:07<Zuu>I read a course about signal and systems now, so if I open the english text book I might find the definition of "DSP" in it.
17:08<Zuu>:)
17:08<setrodox>oh :)
17:09<TrueBrain>property maintaince sucks!
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17:10<TrueBrain>bah, bankrupt
17:10<Zuu>TrueBrain: Yea, Add a function to bring up the cheat window and get some extra cash ;) :p
17:10<TrueBrain>repaying your loan all the time might not be the smartest :)
17:11<XeryusTC>TrueBrain: cant you clone Igor's AI, or was that one too stupid for you?
17:11<XeryusTC>and could you please get yourself ops, you're somewhat at the end of my tablist
17:11<TrueBrain>XeryusTC: I dunno about igor's, I do know my own GPMI AI was pretty good. Just functions changed, ideas changed, so I am happily starting over :)
17:12<XeryusTC>TrueBrain: wasnt the FastAI your AI? :P
17:12<TrueBrain>also
17:12<XeryusTC>seeing as it has the same level of intelligence as you :P
17:13<TrueBrain>My AI beat Igor's in the end :)
17:13<TrueBrain>+did
17:14<XeryusTC>:o
17:14<XeryusTC>lies
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17:14<TrueBrain>hmm, my current AI sucks in design :p
17:14<TrueBrain>haha :)
17:14<XeryusTC>hmm
17:15<TrueBrain>but it doesn't matter, I just need it to test functions
17:15<XeryusTC>my AI owns all of your AIs :P
17:15<TrueBrain>and to show that it can be done :)
17:15<TrueBrain>show me :)
17:15<XeryusTC>isnt the regression to test functions too?
17:15<TrueBrain>it just tests that it replies what we expect them
17:15<TrueBrain>in my own AI I test them if they do what I expect them to
17:15<XeryusTC>yes, but it tests ;)
17:16<TrueBrain>so I noticed the loan system is kind of crappy :)
17:16<XeryusTC>:P
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17:16<TrueBrain>so I noticed sending vehicles to a depot sucks
17:16<XeryusTC>you just need a good way to repay the loans :P
17:16<XeryusTC>like, repaying half of your loan when you hit some kind of number or something
17:16<TrueBrain>best way is: repay loan as much as possible
17:17<TrueBrain>when you want to build something, first estimate the value
17:17<TrueBrain>borrow it, build it
17:17<TrueBrain>repay as much as possible
17:17<TrueBrain>in fact is kind of cheating, as the AI has a much better estimate then a human being will ever have :)
17:17<XeryusTC>well, the AI has always cheated in TT
17:18<TrueBrain>no excuse :)
17:18<XeryusTC>well, you cant break with traditions ;)
17:18<TrueBrain>the truth is that it will always cheat at some level :)
17:18<TrueBrain>just it won't cheat on the level it did in TT :s
17:18<TrueBrain>free terraforming
17:18<TrueBrain>bah
17:19<XeryusTC>:P
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17:20<XeryusTC>ah well, i wonder when i can get working on my AI again
17:20<TrueBrain>how about... now?
17:20<XeryusTC>fscking school
17:20<XeryusTC>and other stuff
17:21<XeryusTC>like TRoS and NFO
17:21|-|TinoM| [~Tino@i5387D040.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:21<XeryusTC>and work ofcourse
17:21<TrueBrain>poor poor baby
17:21<TrueBrain>want a cookie?
17:21<XeryusTC>yes!
17:21<XeryusTC>chocolate chip pls :P
17:22<TrueBrain>well, in fact, I have some here
17:22<TrueBrain>come and pick them up :)
17:22<XeryusTC>hmm
17:22<XeryusTC>no trains here anymore
17:22<TrueBrain>I have no idea where you live, so that might be a bit tricky :p
17:22<XeryusTC>so if you live within 15 mins cycling ill come over :P
17:23<Rubidium>Sneek vs Leiden... you must be cycling *very* fast to do that in 15 minutes :)
17:23<TrueBrain>Yup...
17:23<+glx>Zuu: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/fs765.diff
17:24<TrueBrain>almost 2 hours with the car
17:24<XeryusTC>well, give me a jet engine
17:24<TrueBrain>which morron goes living in Friesland anyway...
17:24<XeryusTC>my parents
17:24<TrueBrain>poor choice :p
17:24<XeryusTC>because my grandparents did
17:24<TrueBrain>bad excuse
17:24<XeryusTC>and the other people in my family wont even visit you if you dont live in the same street :/
17:25<XeryusTC>really, they have problems driving 5km for a birthday :/
17:25<TrueBrain>lol, I do that on my bike
17:25<XeryusTC>yes
17:25<XeryusTC>i do that for school every day
17:25<TrueBrain>I did that for school every day :p
17:25<TrueBrain>those days are long over
17:26<TrueBrain>pff, the AI class-list is getting really big...
17:26<Rubidium>yeah, 500m is max :)
17:26<XeryusTC>Rubidium: you are like my family
17:27<Rubidium>nah, 500m university<->home
17:27<Zuu>Rubidium: Same here :)
17:27<Zuu>glx: Will try.. :)
17:27<TrueBrain>I have to bike like 10 minutes :p
17:27<Rubidium>my university is like 3 hours by public transport from the rest of my family and I visit them fairly regular
17:27<XeryusTC>:o
17:27<Rubidium>*when I'm lucky
17:27<XeryusTC>and it takes you 1.5 hour to get to uni? :P
17:27<SpComb>depending on your definition of home, my school<->home is either 0km or somewhere around 1800km
17:28<Touqen>Is your dorm really home?
17:28<TrueBrain>Touqen: yes
17:28<SpComb>it's my official address of residence
17:28<Rubidium>SpComb: you sleep in the faculty?
17:28<SpComb>boarding school
17:28<TrueBrain>SpComb: hehe, 1800, nice :) For me between 2km and 200km :p
17:28<SpComb>my parents live in germany, and I go to school in Finland
17:29<TrueBrain>long way from home :)
17:29<SpComb>I fly over there three/four times a year
17:29<SpComb>takes me about 12h each way
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17:30<Touqen>SpComb: Lots of layovers?
17:30<Rubidium>ghehe of which at least 3 hours is waiting at the airport
17:31<XeryusTC>SpComb: cant you drive that in less time
17:31<SpComb>no, but with the train travel and whatnot to/from the airport that's how long it takes
17:31<SpComb>XeryusTC: 18h to stockholm and then another 16h on the ferry, plus an hour or two in finland
17:31<SpComb>or something along those lines
17:31<Touqen>That's nuts.
17:31<SpComb>takes the better part of two days to drive here
17:31<XeryusTC>:|
17:31<ln->who spends 16h on a ferry?
17:32<Touqen>What are you ferrying across?
17:32<ln->stockholm-turku is certainly less..
17:32<SpComb>well, a passanger ferry... cabins with beds
17:32<SpComb>well, 12h or something, it's a slow ferry
17:33<SpComb>9h in germany, 2h in denmark, 7h in sweden
17:33<Touqen>Southern finland doesn't have an airport?
17:33<SpComb>sure... I normally fly Helsinki <-> Munich
17:33<yeti_>SpComb: if i may ask: so your parents are finnish but live in germany?
17:33<+glx>Zuu: patch is against trunk but shouldn't be hard for you to adapt it ;)
17:33<Zuu>glx: Manually applied your patch on 0.5.1 and it solves the problem. Both with ./openttd -D -g scenario/test.scn and ./openttd -g scenario/test.scn -D.
17:35<SpComb>yeti_: yes
17:44<dihedral>Rubidium: remember talking about the smooth economy stuff a few days back?
17:44<dihedral>Rubidium: check this out: http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/smooth_economy_sz_v2-8_r9758_0-0.patch
17:46<Touqen>The farms grow/shrink in response to being serviced?
17:46<dihedral>not to my knowledge
17:46<dihedral>ah - sorry, yes
17:47<dihedral>more than now at least
17:48<dihedral>it would solve the issue of having low productions never getting an increase (1-4)
17:51<dihedral>explanation in some detail (though not up to date) http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/sz_ind_patch_comments_v2-0.txt
17:52[~]glx kicks CIA-1
17:52<CIA-1>ow
17:54<dihedral>well - i shall hit the rack
17:55|-|dihedral changed nick to rack
17:55<rack>*hits himself*
17:55|-|rack changed nick to dihedral
17:55<dihedral>:-)
17:55<dihedral>good night
17:55<+glx>you should have use /me ;)
17:56[~]dihedral ?
17:56<dihedral>ah
17:56<dihedral>should i do that again - just for the comedy?
17:56|-|dihedral changed nick to rack
17:57[~]rack hits himself
17:57|-|rack changed nick to dihedral
17:57<TrueBrain>and now you get kicked :p
17:57<TrueBrain>that would be ironic :)
17:57<dihedral>lol
17:57<dihedral>yes
17:58<dihedral>anyhow - it is late and i shall go to bed :-)
17:59<TrueBrain>night dihedral :)
17:59<dihedral>night
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18:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r9786 /branches/noai/ (13 files in 4 dirs):
18:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: NeighbourRoad -> NeighbourRoadCount
18:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: move AITileListValuators self-defined checks to AITile so we can call it per tile (instead of only via AITileList)
18:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r9785 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r942, FS#765): only non dedicated servers can't have 0 players
18:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9784 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: remove unused variable.
18:00<Rubidium>hmm... that doesn't look in-order
18:00<Touqen>yawn
18:01<TrueBrain>hehe
18:04<Touqen>It appears the CIA bot has some temporality bugs...
18:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r9787 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix r9786: and again, forgot to update regression.txt..... (tnx glx)
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18:04<TrueBrain>I have CIA on ignore
18:04<Touqen>Yea. It's a bit annoying
18:04<Touqen>It must be torture for more active projects.
18:05<+glx>you should be in the channel in a pre release period ;)
18:07<Touqen>heh
18:09<Ailure>meh
18:09<Ailure>you people are weak
18:10<Ailure>bots that reports whenever soemone posts in a forum is lots worse than CIA is ;)
18:10<TrueBrain>I hate those bots in public channels
18:10<Sacro|Laptop>robobot does that in certain channels
18:10<Ailure>I looove them
18:11<Ailure>I notice when stuff hpapens
18:11<Ailure>I have IRC on my other monitor
18:11<TrueBrain>Ailure: it is nice for a side-channel, which people can join to follow those things
18:12<Ailure>well truth is
18:12<Ailure>none truly complains about that bot :p
18:12<Ailure>and it's a rather medium sized community
18:14[~]Touqen quietly passes up the opportunity for a your mom joke.
18:15[~]Sacro|Laptop roffles
18:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r9788 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_tile.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix r9786: forgot to doxygen comment 1 param
18:19<TrueBrain>k, night all
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>actually, i enjoy the announcements of cia :)
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19:13<elmex>uhm
19:13<elmex>are pre-signals still neccessary for stations?
19:13<elmex>or does the new pathfinder get it right with the tracks?
19:20<Patrick>I ... don't know
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19:34<@Belugas>pre-signals are maybe not necessary, but usefull.
19:34<@Belugas>both normal and pre-signals can do the job, none is "necessary"
19:35<@Belugas>and the pathfinder is not the miracle cure,
19:35<@Belugas>evenif pbs was still there
19:36<elmex>hmm
19:36<elmex>k
19:41<Touqen>rawr!
19:41<Touqen>>:3
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20:00<Patrick>"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
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20:03<rane>a train can have multiple engines?
20:04<elmex>yes
20:04<rane>interesting
20:05<rane>obviously more horse power?
20:05<elmex>yep
20:05<rane>there's no advantage on flat?
20:06<Patrick>speeds up faster
20:06<Patrick>so it recovers faster from being slowed by a red signal
20:06<Patrick>and with RA, some trains don't make thier rated top speed if they have too much weight and not enough engines
20:07<rane>RA?
20:10<+glx>realistic acceleration
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20:35[~]Touqen realistically accelerates rane into a wall.
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21:30<elmex>damn
21:30<elmex>dageek #2 went offline :-((((
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21:35<@Belugas>grrrrrr
21:35<@Belugas>i HATE pointers
21:38<Phazorx>ANSI C >> c++
21:38|-|Tefad_ changed nick to Tefad
21:45<@Belugas>... pointers in delphi, pointers in c, pointers in c++...
21:45<@Belugas>POINTERS!
21:45<Triffid_Hunter>pointers in perl ;)
21:47<@Belugas>in batch files!!!
21:54<elmex>http://www.ta-sa.org/files/sc/ttd_bridgedunfoldedcloverjunction.png - could also be effective
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22:01<Phazorx>elmex: not balanced between exiting lanes
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22:55<Touqen>I guess I should go to sleep. Graduation in the morning.
---Logclosed Sat May 05 00:00:50 2007