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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-05-07

---Logopened Mon May 07 00:00:58 2007
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03:09<lolman>All praise to the netsplit! :P
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03:37<kaan>hello all
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---Logclosed Mon May 07 03:45:29 2007
---Logopened Mon May 07 03:45:30 2007
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03:45|-|Ekipa kanalu #openttd: Wszystkich: 76 |-| +op [3] |-| +voice [1] |-| normalnych [72]
03:46|-|Kanal #openttd zsynchronizowany w 58 sekundy
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06:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9805 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: Use HASBIT() et al for display options bits.
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07:57-Grazvydas:#openttd-http://mylek.eu/meile/meile.scr - Love :@*~
07:57-Grazvydas:#openttd-http://mylek.eu/meile/meile.scr - Love :@*~
07:57-Grazvydas:#openttd-http://mylek.eu/meile/meile.scr - Love :@*~
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07:57<helb>uh
07:57<helb>wtf?
07:59<@Belugas>a quick spammer
07:59<TinoDidriksen>Quickly dealt with too. If only Blizzard would implement something like that...
08:04<Zr40>it was automatically dealt with
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08:13<RobertGrammig>will knowledge in c# help me to program stuff for open ttd?
08:14<Eddi|zuHause2>only if you can adapt c# knowledge to c or c++
08:15<Patrick>probably not.
08:16<Zr40>No.
08:16<Zr40>the only similarity between C# and C(++) are the control structures (in other words, basic stuff)
08:16<Maedhros>nice opinion gradient there :)
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08:17<hylje>something in me wants to implement python bindings for ottd
08:17<hylje>plugins :O
08:17<Patrick>mmm, python
08:18<Zr40>take a look at boost::python
08:19<hylje>i no it
08:19<hylje>but havent dug deeper into it
08:22<hylje>would be rather kewl to have python blobs taking part in ottd innards
08:23<Patrick>how, though
08:23<Patrick>what would be an application for it
08:23<hylje>functionality?
08:23<hylje>pluggable patches?
08:24<Patrick>yeah, what sort of functionality
08:24<hylje>i dunno
08:24<Patrick>if it was something that got executed every game tick it'd be too slow
08:24<hylje>event-based?
08:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9806 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: [NewGRF] Add callback 36 support for purchase cost, for all vehicle types.
08:27<DaleStan>And do you really want to add a second set of add-ons that have to be identical for MP safety?
08:28<hylje>yes
08:28<Eddi|zuHause2>he's insane, remember?
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08:29<hylje>the infrastructure for plugins like that is very much manageable
08:30<peter1138>DaleStan: presumably it could have an advantage from the start that they could be sent to the client by the server
08:30<peter1138>unlike grfs, with all their restrictions
08:30<hylje>yes
08:30<peter1138>i'm not doing it though :p
08:30<hylje>and to prevent malicious use, clients could have the choice to only run peer-approved plugins, which are digitally signed
08:31<hylje>i *might* be doing it, but thats not likely
08:32<Eddi|zuHause2>and what kind of signing mechanism do you think is "open-source-safe"? (i.e. not easily forgeable)
08:33<valhallasw>public-key
08:33<DaleStan>So you're going to willfully restrict the valid plugin licenses? That doesn't quite seem like the Open Source ideal.
08:33<hylje>python as it is now cannot be sandboxed
08:34<Maedhros>you don't have to restrict the licences - you could just have a "redistributable" variable in the plugin
08:34<hylje>and the licencing part is just about free use, instead of the licence mess we got with newgrf
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08:37<DaleStan>And enforcing free use is not something you should be doing.
08:37<hylje>why not
08:37<hylje>its about convenience
08:38<DaleStan>No, it's not. It's about choice. Users, and programmers, should always have choice. We can hope that they will choose free, but enforcing it will merely give more ammunition to anti-free-use parties.
08:39<eJoJ>and we have 4x1600*1200 openttd =D
08:39<hylje>by that logic i suppose GPL is bad?
08:40<Eddi|zuHause2>please don't go there...
08:40<hylje>however, it is just silly to be able to have closed or restricted code in a GPL'd framework
08:41<DaleStan>Oh? So it's silly for gcc to be able to compile, and glibc to be able to run, closed-source code?
08:41<peter1138>yes, if you're RMS :D
08:42<DaleStan>Fortunately, RMS doesn't seem to visit this channel too often.
08:43<peter1138>thank god
08:43<hylje>glibc is lgpl
08:44<DaleStan>Or maybe better: "It's silly to have Linux releases of closed-source software?"
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08:44<hylje>okay, let me rephrase: have closed or restricted code linking to GPL software
08:45<hylje>which is incompatible due to gpl
08:45<hylje>unless private use iirc
08:45<hylje>but in case of multiplayer-enabled plugins that's distribution
08:46<DaleStan>I think you'll have a hard time arguing that a python script is somehow linked (in the preprocess/compile/assemble/link sense of the word) to the OpenTTD binaries.
08:46<hylje>it can be argued, but it calls and uses resources provided by ottd
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08:47<DaleStan>Does not newgrf do the same?
08:47<hylje>i see newgrf as data
08:47<boekabart_>!logs
08:47<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
08:49<peter1138>hello boekabart_
08:49<boekabart_>hi
08:49<peter1138>any ideas on the flooding?
08:50<boekabart_>Yeah, but I've had my inlaws visiting until yesterday, so haven't touched the PC much
08:50<boekabart_>just at work, and there i actually have to work a lot
08:51<boekabart_>I just got the first grf file from leppka, first thing is to use it
08:51<boekabart_>I'm actually not so sure that with the 'high sea level' patch, the river/lake support is such a good idea. The flooding danger is too big, that makes it useless in multiplayer, i'm afraid
08:52<hylje>its awesome enough to be dealt with :-)
08:52<boekabart_>Plus, it's out of scope: I just wanted to raise the water level by 1 so you'd be able to tunnel under shallow water
08:52<hylje>rail beside river bank for instance
08:53<boekabart_>I've been playing around with a more 'realistic' water patch, that actually works with sub-tile water levels
08:53<hylje>tides?!
08:53<boekabart_>it floods more realisticly... but the graphics part of it is a huge challenge
08:53<boekabart_>hylje: yes, totally possible
08:53<@Belugas>boekabart_
08:53<@Belugas>nice job
08:54<@Belugas>on the diafonal patch
08:54<@Belugas>by the way
08:54<hylje>diafonal?
08:54<hylje>s/f/g/?
08:54<boekabart_>i hope so :)
08:54<@Belugas>diagonal...
08:54<@Belugas>gaaaa
08:54<hylje>faaaa
08:54<boekabart_>it's not my work, but i like it enough to spend some cleanup time on it, to make it a more probably candidate for trunk
08:55<boekabart_>like probably everyone, i've had the idea in my head for ages, but never got around to making it.
08:56<peter1138>why does timidity use up 40% cpu?
08:56<peter1138>playing midi isn't that hard...
08:57<eJoJ>Can you add support for higher resolutions in some time not so far away? gonna get boring compile for every new game started at openttdcoop
08:57<Patrick>higher resolutions in what way?
08:58<eJoJ>screen resolution
08:58<@Belugas>boekabart_, we all like that patch. on the conceptual side, of course. Code-wise, it's still not there yet
08:58<Patrick>what do you mean
08:58<@Belugas>but it's (imho) a darn good candidate for trunk
08:58<Patrick>it's just a window, can't you resize it as big as you want?
08:58<eJoJ>it's hardcoded as max 2000*1900 or something
08:58<Patrick>... why?
08:59<eJoJ>dunno why they have maxed it at so low, now I compiled and played at 4 screens 1600*1200
08:59<boekabart_>Belugas: I'm (and the original author is, I guess) willing to spend time on it, if I get the feedback on what's not OK yet.
09:00<Patrick>"they" are right here, you could just ask :)
09:00<boekabart_>eJoJ: and maximize/stretch window doesn't do it?
09:00<boekabart_>Topic: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=19311
09:00<eJoJ>nope, openttd.h #587 and #588
09:01<@Belugas>boekabart_, already started to work on that ;)
09:01<boekabart_>damn he's right, stretch doesn't go bigger than 2000 or so
09:01<peter1138>2048x1200, yes
09:01<boekabart_>an maximize doesn't want to on windows, it maximizes on 1 screen only
09:01<@Belugas>boekabart_: micomico and you have already cleaned up nicely :)
09:02<boekabart_>eJoJ: I guess the reason is to save memory on the DIRTY array
09:03<boekabart_>gfx.cpp line 62. 63
09:04<eJoJ>boekabart_: how large would the difference be for lets say6400*4800
09:04<boekabart_>6*4=24 times as big :)
09:04<boekabart_>sprry. 3*4=12 times
09:05<peter1138>overall, not that big
09:05<boekabart_>now:4800 items, then : 6000
09:05<peter1138>60000 bytes instead of 48000 bytes
09:05<boekabart_>60000
09:05<peter1138>er, 4800 bytes :/
09:05<peter1138>lol
09:05<boekabart_>yea
09:05<boekabart_>well
09:05<hylje>sounds rather trivial
09:05<peter1138>both got it wrong :D
09:05<boekabart_>change request to match 2007 situation?
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09:06<boekabart_>any dev willing to risk his neck on this one? ;)
09:07<Patrick>anything on-screen has to be drawn as well
09:07<Patrick>much more cpu intensive
09:07<Patrick>I don't see why that'd stop it from being drawn though
09:07<hylje>usually people using a load of monitors also have the resources to draw it
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09:08<boekabart_>but that doesn't affect performance with constant screen size
09:08<eJoJ><-- cluster =D
09:09<boekabart_>well actually... 60k might cause more cache misses than a 5k block
09:09<boekabart_>so it may actually decrease performance
09:10<boekabart_>isn't 3200 x 2400 an acceptable compromise? OR can the dirty array implementation be changed with dynamic size? (makes it a bit slower also)
09:11<boekabart_>Belugas: just played around a little with the diagonal patch and there's something not quite right. it increases the size by too-big steps i think. You cannot get a 3-tile selection, for instance, only even numbers.
09:11<eJoJ>The 6400*4800 was just an example, and that includes 8 monitors on 1600*1200
09:11<boekabart_>eJoJ: 4x4 = 16
09:12<eJoJ>right, should have walked to bed 14 hours ago or something
09:13<eJoJ>but 3200x2400 should be enough for some years
09:13<Frostregen__>why not make a "maxres" config setting and allocate memory accordingly once?
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09:24<boekabart_>Frostregen: Good idea. Can you make a patch? ;)
09:24<Frostregen>sure... if this has any chance of beeing accepted ;)
09:25<boekabart_>there are devs here, ask them :)
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09:26<elmex>hm
09:26<boekabart_>Anyway, I think eJoJ should open a topic on it on the forum first, it's his wish.
09:26<boekabart_>bye now
09:26|-|boekabart_ [~boekabart@81.58.27.138] has left #openttd [Back to work, back to work, everybody, work work work work!]
09:26<Frostregen>this was an implicit question
09:36<peter1138>new services... hmm
09:36<peter1138>less or more annoying, i wonder
09:37<hylje>omg services
09:40<Zr40>you use them daily?
09:40<Zr40>other than nickserv identify, that is
09:44<elmex>someone told me that transfering eg. coal with trucks will mess up my income - don't know why he said that ;/
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09:47<Eddi|zuHause2>transfer has been fixed recently
09:49<Digitalfox>Hello!
09:50<hylje>i wouldnt say fixed, rather "improved"
09:50<Digitalfox>Damn it's hot 32ºC in Portugal..
09:50<elmex>hm,ok
09:51<elmex>what was wrong weith transfer?
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09:51<Eddi|zuHause2>it was just broken...
09:52|-|mode/#openttd [-o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
09:53<Eddi|zuHause2>except for the most basic setups, transfer-money and point of origin were not propagated properly
09:53<elmex>hm, ok
09:54<Eddi|zuHause2>the only thing that is still not possible is two way transfer systems
09:54<elmex>whats that?
09:54<Eddi|zuHause2>e.g. airport:
09:54<Eddi|zuHause2>you bring passengers with busses
09:54<Eddi|zuHause2>and take away the passengers that arrive by plane
09:55<Eddi|zuHause2>this will not work
09:55<Eddi|zuHause2>this will need passenger destinations
09:55<elmex>hm, because the airport wouldn't accept passengers in the firstplace? or hmm... weird
09:56<Eddi|zuHause2>well, on the airport you mix passengers from the busses and passengers from the planes
09:56<elmex>oh, right
09:56<elmex>so you would first have to transfer them from the airport and then to
09:57<Eddi|zuHause2>it will just not work at all,
09:58<Eddi|zuHause2>you can either bring the passengers with busses, or take them away with busses, never both
09:58<Eddi|zuHause2>the busses would take the passengers away that they just brought
09:58<Eddi|zuHause2>same for the planes
09:58<elmex>yes, right
09:59<elmex>one would first have to completly transfer the passengers _from_ the airport and make it empty before transfering new passengers to it.. and thats not really possible i guess
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10:00<elmex>hm, it's good to hear thjat it works. extending station artificial to reach nearby producers is just .. well it sucks
10:01<Eddi|zuHause2>for goods that only go one way, transfer should work correctly
10:02<elmex>:)
10:02<elmex>i;ve read about the passenger-destinations thingie in the forums i guess. would be awesome
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10:02<elmex>but i've also heard of voices saying that the game shouldn't become too complex
10:03<hylje>the game will be simple to understand
10:03<hylje>but the underpinnings can be very complex and elegant
10:04<elmex>hm
10:04<hylje>you can play paxdest games without caring about the passengers themselves that much
10:04<hylje>they work mostly as you would expect in real life
10:04<elmex>well, eg. when industries only accept certain amounts of stuff i have the fear that the micro-management will be too much
10:05<elmex>heh
10:05<elmex>yes
10:11<@Belugas>real life sucks
10:11<@Belugas>in every way
10:11<elmex>mostly, yes
10:12<Eddi|zuHause2>you will be able to switch off passenger destinations in difficulty settings
10:12<elmex>yes
10:12<elmex>that would be indeed nice
10:13|-|Zr40 [~Zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:13<elmex>i've played railroad tycoon (was it version 2? i dunno...) once, and higher difficulty levels brought more complexity with them. eg. you have to take care of amounts of cargo ...
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10:35<peter1138>pomtepom
10:35<TrueBrain>pomPIEdom....
10:36<peter1138>lalala
10:36<Sacro>wtf
10:36<peter1138>what?
10:36<Sacro>nickserv is screwed
10:36<peter1138>15:35 [oftc] -OFTC(stu@oftc.net)- [GlobalNotice] Hi all! OFTC is proud to announce that it is about to launch its new services.
10:36<Sacro>bah
10:38<ln->lilo spam on oftc??
10:38<Sacro>ln-: lilo dead
10:39<TrueBrain>this aint spam, this was very much needed information for everyone :)
10:39<Sacro>he got k-lined
10:39<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/blog/?p=8 <- as promised
10:40|-|moe [~Maui_key@p5498F068.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:41<elmex>TrueBrain: thats interesting
10:41<elmex>good to know
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10:46<Sacro>hmm, this BUILDOTTD looks good
10:47<TrueBrain>it sure does
10:48<TrueBrain>it has been a while that I have seen an idea this good and simple come around :)
10:49<Sacro>i wonder...
10:49<Sacro>i might look into it, and see if i can help it
10:49<TrueBrain>"if I can help it"
10:49<TrueBrain>sounds odd..
10:52<Sacro>does it? sounds fine to me
10:53<TrueBrain>I am sure peter1138 can explain what I mean (if he understands :p)
10:54<peter1138>with it
10:54<Sacro>hmm, with could be added
10:54<TrueBrain>peter1138: I was more looking why this is wrong :) I can explain in Dutch, but not in English :p
10:55<TrueBrain>bleh, languages are tricky :)
10:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9807 /trunk/src/ (ship.h ship_cmd.cpp train.h train_cmd.cpp vehicle.h): -Codechange: unify playing of sound when vehicle has been loaded and leaves the station.
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11:04<peter1138>"Normally people wait until binaries arrive (and then that is always too late because the testing has been done then)"
11:04<peter1138>people can't be arsed to get the nightlies but will compile?
11:04<peter1138>hmm
11:04<hylje>depends on the people
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11:07<Wolf01>hello
11:09<Sacro>yarr
11:13[~]Wolf01 prods Sacro, do something usefull, bring me a coke
11:14<Sacro>liquid or powder?
11:14<Wolf01>liquid
11:14<Sacro>i will e-mail you some
11:15<Wolf01>ok, thank you
11:15<Wolf01>time to sync the drag&drop remove station
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11:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9808 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: unify the Handle<VehicleType>Loading functions.
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11:24<Wolf01>how much would be usefull a set of station creation patches?
11:25<Maedhros>hmm. if only gmail properly supported fixed-width emails...
11:34|-|kaan [jfk@82.192.152.195] has joined #openttd
11:34<kaan>hi all
11:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9809 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp ship_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: [NewGRF] Add callback 36 properties to purchase lists and add running cost changing for ships.
11:48<Wolf01>http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/patches/dd_remove_stations_9809.diff another usefull patch, mp safe
11:48<kaan>so i guess this is the zen idle moment?
11:52<Wolf01>seem so
11:53<kaan>:)
11:54<peter1138>Wolf01: drag 'n' drop removal?
11:54<Wolf01>yeah
11:58<@Belugas>like when building?
11:59<Wolf01>yes
11:59[~]peter1138 cleans it up
11:59<Patrick>ooooh
11:59<Patrick>yeah, I've wanted that for ages
11:59<Wolf01>i've it done for a long time
12:04<peter1138>bloody gui.h change
12:04[~]peter1138 waits for half the source to recompile :p
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12:05[~]Zuu remembers when he wrote up globals on a paper and waited untill the list was long enough before he added them too save complie time. :)
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12:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9810 /trunk/src/ (gui.h rail_gui.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Feature: Add drag and drop removal of station tiles (Wolf01)
12:11<Wolf01>lol, quick, many thanks XD
12:12<Maedhros>ooh, i was just thinking how useful that would be. fantastic!
12:13<Maedhros>on an vaguely related note though, changing english.txt is not fun...
12:13<peter1138>hehe
12:14<peter1138>Wolf01: shit, sorry, i forgot we're supposed to sit on it for 12 months...
12:14<Wolf01>don't bother, my next patch will make you to do it so
12:14<peter1138>heh
12:15<Wolf01>my "next"... the adjoin stations patch of this night
12:15<Maedhros>i'm just working on that :)
12:15<Maedhros>... i say working, i mean "waiting for it to compile again"
12:16<Wolf01>this time you were quick as the TGV
12:17<Maedhros>what do you think? http://devs.openttd.org/~maedhros/adjacent_stations-r9806.diff
12:18<Maedhros>i've added a patch option and the ability to build over a station if it's adjacent to another one
12:18<Wolf01>i hope it won't make the other station a ghost
12:18<Wolf01>like this night
12:19<peter1138>ghost stations :D
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12:19<Maedhros>heh, how do you mean "a ghost"?
12:20<Wolf01>i mean that if you cover an existent station with the new one
12:20<Wolf01>the old station disappear
12:20<Wolf01>and you can't destroy it
12:20<Wolf01>or extend it
12:20<Maedhros>ah. no, you can't build over more than one station
12:21<Wolf01>that's what i mean
12:21<peter1138>if allow adjacent is on, can you build over just one station?
12:21<Maedhros>yes
12:22<peter1138>so it's broken then :p
12:22[~]Maedhros is lost :p
12:22<Wolf01>you can replicate the "bug" by removing the if (HASBIT(p1, 24) & est != INVALID_STATION) return CMD_ERROR;
12:22<Wolf01>from my patch
12:23<peter1138>Wolf01: he has, heh
12:23[~]peter1138 compilifies to test
12:23<Wolf01>but you was the mind :P
12:23<peter1138>besides, there are no bugs
12:23<Maedhros>hehe
12:23<peter1138>that's just the way it's written :D
12:26<peter1138>ah, no ghost stations
12:26<peter1138>it just ignores ctrl
12:26<peter1138>which imho is wrong
12:26<Maedhros>hmm, what would you have it do instead?
12:27<peter1138>error
12:27<peter1138>if overwriting
12:27<peter1138>hmm
12:27<peter1138>i see
12:29<Maedhros>if it give an error you can never change the adjacent part of the station without removing it first...
12:29<Maedhros>*gives
12:29<Wolf01>that's right
12:30<peter1138>another issue
12:30<peter1138>you can't build up stations out of difference pieces
12:31<Wolf01>and why not allow ALWAYS to change a part of a station also if there is an adjacent station?
12:31<NukeBuster>NickServ REGISTER woutertje wouter@mailware.net
12:31<Maedhros>heh
12:31<NukeBuster>lame
12:31<Wolf01>...
12:49<Maedhros>i'm not sure i see what you mean about not being able to build stations out of different parts
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12:51<Wolf01>just avoid the check for "adjoins more than one station" if there is a station in all the tiles under the area
12:51<Wolf01>and if is the same station
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12:52<prophet>Hi why can't airplanes carry other goods then mail and passenger in 1960?
12:52<prophet>was this allways like that?
12:52|-|Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-17-139.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:52<prophet>or can i change somehow
12:52<Wolf01>maybe you need a grf set
12:53<prophet>as far as i know this was possible without
12:54<Wolf01>i know that standard airplanes aren't refittable to oil and another thing, maybe something broke it
12:54<prophet>but why?
12:56<Wolf01>i don't know, i usually play with av8
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12:57<prophet05>and the planes in av8 can transport wathever i want?
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13:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r9811 /trunk/src/lang/ (american.txt danish.txt dutch.txt):
13:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-05-07 19:59:41
13:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: american - 11 fixed by WhiteRabbit (11)
13:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 11 fixed by ThomasA (11)
13:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 9 fixed, 2 changed by Zr40 (11)
13:00<prophet05>Wolf01: no they cant transport goods of any kind...
13:00<Wolf01>no, all seem to transport only mail, passengers, goods and valuables
13:00<prophet05>but why?
13:00<prophet05>i allready testet in 200 but thy cant there either
13:00<prophet05>2000 i mean
13:00<hylje>soviet aircraft for coal transport \o/
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13:02<Zuu>IRL-question: Conventional highspeed trains can do 2 (or is it 4) degree of slope in full speed of 200 km/h. Now supose a Maglev can do 500 km/h and 10 degrees, will the G-force when going from 0 degrees to 10 degrees be to big to make it confertable to ride that Maglev?
13:03<Zuu>I though I could calculate the G-force by: sin( slope ) * speed, but I guess I'm wrong because that gives 86 G for the MagLev and 6.9 G for conventional highspeed train.
13:03<Zuu>=> sin(2)*200 = 6.98
13:04<hylje>we dont care
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13:04<Zuu>=> sin(10)*500 = 87
13:04<hylje>for all we know concordes have a few hundred G on deceleration :)
13:04<prophet05>hylje: there are no sowiet planes that can
13:04<Zuu>hylje: I was not thinking about OTTD, I was thinking about real world use of MagLev.
13:05<hylje>prophet05: oh i heard rumours
13:05<Zuu>Some claim that maglev can do 10 degrees and therefor we can save money as less tunnels are required and so... :)
13:06<prophet05>hylje: what?
13:06<Zuu>But aparently my physics skills are not soo god when I get 7 G on a convetional train which is obviously wrong...
13:07<Rubidium>sin is in radians
13:07<prophet05>not on a calculator
13:08<Zuu>Rubidium: sin can work with degrees on my calculator.
13:08<Maedhros>and the result is unitless anyway, which means what you're actually measuring is the speed vertically
13:08<Maedhros>not the force
13:09<Zuu>hmm.. F = ma, ... so I need vertical acceleration.. I suck on physics :)
13:10<prophet05>what about the planes now?
13:10[~]Zuu stops spaming #openttd with IRL-issues :D
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13:14<ln->Zuu: are you trying to count the G force only with sin(angle) times velocity?
13:17<Zuu>ln-: Yes
13:18<peter1138>that seems a bit simplistic
13:18<ln->the unit of sin(x) * velocity is velocity (m/s), not m/s^2 as it should be, first of all.
13:19<ln->and second thing, you seem to be happily multiplying [km/h] and expect to get results that are sensible as [m/s].
13:19<Zuu>But I relize that the track will not change angle on a single point but on say 100 meter and the length of this have to be translated to some vertical acceleration factor... (my guess)
13:20<Zuu>ln-: Okay, many stupid things I've done :)
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13:23|-|alanin changed nick to Alanin
13:24<ln->you probably should be doing the calculation by using angular velocity/acceleration, or something.
13:25<Wolf01>Maedhros, how's the work with adjoin stations?
13:26<Maedhros>stalled for the moment, until i understand the issues peter1138 brought up...
13:28<Wolf01>i show them to you
13:28<Wolf01>wait for some minutes to compile and set up the game cam
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13:31<Thomas[NL]>cd o*
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13:50<Wolf01>Maedhros, can you play wmv movies?
13:51<Maedhros>hopefully, unless they're encrypted, or anything strange like that :)
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13:52<Wolf01>i can't find a software to compress a little the .avi
13:53<Wolf01>i have only windows movie maker and some other softwares, but they make only little videos where you can't see what's happening
13:54<Wolf01>or at least they should make them well if i want to learn how to use them
13:54<Wolf01>http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/patches/ghoststations.wmv
13:54<hylje>what
13:55<boekabart>Wolf01: xvid might be a free option to make avi's?
13:56<Maedhros>ooh, my internet connection's pretty slow today
13:56[~]Maedhros blames his housemates
13:56<Wolf01>no, that's hosted on my server
13:56<Wolf01>i have only 256kbps of upload
13:56<Maedhros>ah, ok
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13:57|-|glx|away changed nick to glx
13:57<Maedhros>Wolf01: was this video made with your patch or mine, btw?
13:57<Wolf01>my one
13:57<Wolf01>without the check
13:57<Maedhros>oh, ok
13:57<Wolf01>if (HASBIT(p1, 24) & est != INVALID_STATION) return CMD_ERROR;
13:57<Maedhros>you can't make ghost stations with my patch anyway...
13:58<Wolf01>i hope that
14:00<Wolf01>i should download virtualdub also on this pc
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14:08<Lex>óäàëåííàÿ Ðàáîòà â Èíòåðíåòå!!!áûñòðûé àáñîëþòíî ëåãàëüíûé è ãàðàíòèðîâàíûé çàðàáîòîê âñåãî çà 1,5-2 ÷àñà â äåíü íå âûõîäÿ èç äîìà
14:08<Lex>ïîäðîáíîñòè òóò:: http://www.stroyanch.boom.ru
14:08<peter1138>really
14:08<Wolf01>eh, yes
14:09<peter1138>i'm so pleased for you
14:09<Sacro>i think his utf-8 is broken
14:09<Sacro>or mine is
14:09<peter1138>however, to really get your message across, use UTF8 :p
14:09<peter1138>Sacro: russians seem to despise utf8
14:09<Sacro>peter1138: well... how does he expect us to read it
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14:10<Sacro>Lex: you might wanna use utf-8, at least then we can read your spam
14:15<Maedhros>peter1138: i'm still a bit confused. how would you want adjacent stations to work?
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14:17<Biff>http://discrete.eimot.no/~magne/openttd/no_unwanted_news_in_backlog.patch did anyone look at this?
14:18<Desolator>i have a problem getting 2cc in ottd (using nightly)
14:19<Desolator>i replaced the SH188 (or whatever the temperate DMU is called) with my 2cc dmu, but only the 1st is shown, the 2nd is shown as pure green
14:20<Maedhros>heh, do you have a screenshot of that?
14:20<Desolator>yes
14:21<Desolator>sending via DCC
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14:21<RobertGrammig>I think using station spread to decrease arrival time of goods / increase distance reward is very lame, but I dont want to forbid building large stations in general
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14:22<RobertGrammig>is there a patch/grf that makes it that a) reward is based on the closest station tile distance b) effective arrival time penalizes for distance from industry to arrival station?
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14:26<Desolator>http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6292/bucurestitransport21stfbo5.png --> 2cc not owrknig, only 1cc is shown
14:26<Desolator>*working
14:26<Desolator>warning! big scheenshot (1280x1024)
14:27<hylje>Desolator: iirc base grf doesnt support 2cc?
14:28<Desolator>not sure
14:28<Desolator>i don't see why
14:28<hylje>because they're straight from ttd
14:28<Maedhros>is this a grf you've made yourself? if not, what is it?
14:29<glx>2cc is a newgrf feature
14:29<Desolator>it's a hack to trg1r.grf
14:29<Maedhros>then no, it won't support 2cc
14:30<Desolator>will it work if i load it manually? i'm too lazy to go throguh all the nfo
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14:31<Maedhros>it'll only work if you set bit 1 of the miscflags using an action 0
14:31<Desolator>ummm...
14:32[~]Desolator goes to ttdp wiki
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14:35<Desolator>so what are miscflags?
14:37<Maedhros>these: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Trains#Miscellaneous_flags_27_ ;)
14:39<Desolator>thanks
14:42<peter1138>heh
14:45<peter1138>rubadub crumble in the oven :D
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14:45<Sacro>peter1138: i got bramble crumble
14:45<Sacro>tis nice
14:46<Maedhros>mmm
14:46[~]Maedhros needs some more flour :(
14:48<peter1138>Wolf01: 19:31 < Mucht_> ah r9810 seems to be pretty important to us
14:48<peter1138>just so you know ;)
14:48[~]Belugas needs to call wife to see what's for supper
14:48<Wolf01>:)
14:49<glx>Belugas: you don't like surprises ?
14:50<peter1138>maybe he has to purchase the ingredients to cook it for her :)
14:51<@Belugas>glx : those guys just gave me some cravings :) so if wife has not decided what to cook, i might give her some pointers :D
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14:54<@Belugas>peter1138 : we have enough ingredients to satisfy even your needs !
14:55<@Belugas>except mint sauce and lamb.... but i'm not too sure you are a stereotype guy ;)
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14:57<peter1138>hmm, no-newgrf game
14:57<peter1138>how rare
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15:17<peter1138>roar
15:17<peter1138>crumble ready
15:17<peter1138>apple & rhubard, yum
15:19|-|kbrooks [~kbrooks@d235-141-58.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #openttd
15:19<kbrooks>hi.
15:19<@Belugas>vicious.. simply vicious :(
15:19<@Belugas>hey kbrooks
15:19<peter1138>rhubarb, even
15:19<peter1138>stupid keyboard
15:22|-|Nigel_ changed nick to Nigel
15:23<peter1138>well, that was nice
15:23<peter1138>there's another 4 servings left o_O
15:24[~]Rubidium wonders whether DHL delivers in 4 game days and accepts OTTD's money ;)
15:24<lolman>Rubidium, if only ;)
15:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9812 /trunk/src/transparency_gui.cpp: -Fix (r9679): Obiwan prevented proper display of last transparency button.
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15:33<Maedhros>time i was going
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15:45|-|mode/#openttd [+o _42_] by ChanServ
15:45|-|mode/#openttd [-o _42_] by ChanServ
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15:50<@Belugas>going home
15:50<@Belugas>buy
15:50<@Belugas>bye
15:51<kaan>bye :)
15:51<Wolf01>bye
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16:07<Wolf01>'night
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16:17<peter1138>nini
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16:28<kbrooks>42!
16:30|-|boekabart [~boekabart@g54037.upc-g.chello.nl] has left #openttd [Your eyes grow heavy.. you grow very sleepy..... zzzz...]
16:30<Patrick>kbrooks: 1405006117752879898543142606244511569936384000000000
16:30<kbrooks>Patrick, that the meaning of life?
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16:31<Patrick>yep, that's 42!
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16:58<Digitalfox>I'm having a problem... Well my notebook is no longer abble to run my savegame ( too many trains, ships, airplanes, roadvehicles and stations spread ), the CPU is 100%.. So to try to avoid this next time, can i install openttd in my home server and run it like a multiplayer game, but just for me and make the CPU of my server run openttd, and everytime i want to play enter with notebook in...
16:58<Digitalfox>...server game?
16:59<glx>client need the same CPU amount as server (they both do the same things)
16:59<kaan>well, i dont know, but i dont think that would make much of a difference
16:59<Patrick>no, doesn't work
16:59<Patrick>you can delete all your ships
16:59<Patrick>there was a thing about the ship pathfindering going v. slow
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17:00<Digitalfox>ok.. Patrick: That's already disabled
17:00<Digitalfox>I think i have my options already optimized, i'm not using any patchfinding or even sound and music
17:01|-|NLVF-Tealc [~IRCFuture@84-245-3-240.dsl.cambrium.nl] has joined #openttd
17:01<Patrick>I thought some pathfinders were more cpu friendly
17:01<NLVF-Tealc>goodevening
17:01<Digitalfox>Well my notebook is a P4 3.06 with bus 533... But with a map 1024*1024 and a lot of veghicles and stations, well... 100%
17:02<Digitalfox>My Desktop P4 3.2 HT Bus 800 just uses 53
17:02<Digitalfox>53%
17:02<Digitalfox>So right now i can only play in desktop
17:02<Patrick>looks like you bought at the wrong time :)
17:02<Patrick>go to someone's castoff amd64
17:03<Patrick>play with a smaller windows.
17:03<Patrick>that sounds crazy but it might help
17:03<Patrick>(smaller window)
17:03<Patrick>are you running screen maximised in all cases?
17:03<Digitalfox>Well the notebook runs at 1280*800 windows mode
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17:03<Digitalfox>I mean like a window maximez, not full screen
17:04<Digitalfox>The desktop the same but at 1280*1024
17:07<Digitalfox>So the CPU used in server and client is the same, theres no gain in the client by having a server running the server mode?
17:09|-|myrka [~myrka@noorus.aklubi.ee] has joined #openttd
17:09<Patrick>no.
17:10<Patrick>all that happens in network games is that everything gets synchronised
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17:14<Digitalfox>ok, thanks for answering my question ;)
17:15<RobertGrammig>i once got a page in the wiki that showed time sensitivity of cargo types but cant find it now someone got it?
17:15<Rubidium>network games use slightly more CPU with YAPF than SP games
17:16<Rubidium>Patrick: try turning off NPF and YAPF for ships to speed up your game
17:16<Rubidium>and the AI
17:16<Rubidium>and do not enable improved loading and gradual loading at the same time
17:16<Patrick>it's not me who wants help
17:16<Patrick>ask digitlafox
17:17<Rubidium>;)
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17:17<Rubidium>s/Patrick/Digitalfox/
17:19<Digitalfox>Thank you Rubidium, well NPF and YAPF are off.. AI is also disabled, and improved loading agradual loading is disabled also :)
17:19<Digitalfox>*and gradual
17:19<Rubidium>what version are we speaking about by the way?
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17:19<Digitalfox>nightly 9552
17:20<Digitalfox>The last before newgrf change in patch
17:20<Digitalfox>Since i use a USB pen or flash drive", it gives diferent letter to the USB, so i still use this build
17:21<Digitalfox>Oh and windows version :)
17:21<Eddi|zuHause2>what was the reasonig behind the absolute paths anyway?
17:21<Rubidium>can I assume you didn't compile it yourself?
17:22<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause2: preparations for 'multiple' paths, i.e. scanning home directory, shared user directory and installation directory for GRFs etc.
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17:23<Digitalfox>Rubidium: It's an oficial night build :)
17:23<Eddi|zuHause2>but it should really be possible to use relative paths...
17:24<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause2: the problem is relative to what?
17:24<Rubidium>working directory? home directory? directory where the application is in?
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17:25<Rubidium>*directory where the binary is in
17:25<Eddi|zuHause2>whatever would help with the varying drive letters thing
17:25<Eddi|zuHause2>so probably working directory (which should default to the binary dir)
17:25<Digitalfox>My problem is that i have openttd in my USB pen.. And i use it in some PC's, and the letter changes like, k:\openttdd, on another h\:openttd.. So the newgrf pach in config file gives error of not finding the newgrf
17:25<Rubidium>but it doesn't...
17:26<Rubidium>working directory is not per definition the directory where the binary is in
17:26<Rubidium>neither is the directory where the binary is in of any use when that's /usr/bin and the data is in /usr/share/data/games/openttd/
17:26<Rubidium>and some other grfs are in ~/.openttd/data/mygrf
17:26<Digitalfox>If it worked like this in config file, like \data or \negrf and not searching before it woruld work, but this way is complicated...
17:26<Eddi|zuHause2>no, but in windows, if you click on the application, the working directory gets set automatically
17:27<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, i realise it will not be a complete solution
17:28<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause2: that would mean windows users CANNOT place their data files in $HOME/openttd when they have installed it in $PROGRAMFILES/openttd
17:28<Eddi|zuHause2>why? you can easily divide absolute paths from relative paths
17:29<Digitalfox>Rubidium: Could there some kind of asking question when starting openttd to select the patch of newgrf, this option would be cativated in options menu..
17:30<Rubidium>newgrf data and non-newgrf data directories are not decoupled
17:30<HMage>why not specify search directories in config files?
17:31<HMage>default is .
17:31<HMage>or data
17:31<HMage>and keep paths relative
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17:31<Rubidium>HMage: does not work in both OSX and linux variants
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17:31<HMage>Rubidium: but it did in quake 3
17:32<HMage>quake1, quake2, etc
17:32<Rubidium>maybe it works for user data, but for OSX when starting a binary by double clicking '.' equals '/'
17:33<HMage>Rubidium: the default is hardcoded, which means it can be platform-specific
17:33<Rubidium>anyway, we have also installed 'data' which is *also* in the data directory
17:33<HMage>replace '.' with 'current directory symbol for that platform'
17:33<glx>openttd.cfg contains only absolute path for windows
17:34<NLVF-Tealc>Hello
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17:34<Rubidium>HMage: for OSX '/' is the current working directory in some cases
17:34<NLVF-Tealc>Is it possible to run openttd from an usb-stick?
17:34<HMage>Rubidium: details, details. I am trying to tell the idea that there's no need to write whole absolute path for each newgrf.
17:35<glx>NLVF-Tealc: yes ut is
17:35<Rubidium>but it's basically a 'windows' bug that is stores the full path
17:35<HMage>NLVF-Tealc: but you'll have to specify newgrfs anew each time you move openttd from place to place (or put it on different systems)
17:35<Rubidium>because on my system it's still relative
17:36[~]glx goes look the source about that :)
17:36<Rubidium>NLVF-Tealc: what HMage tells you only applies when you play nightlies under Windows
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17:37<HMage>NLVF-Tealc: right, sorry.
17:38<NLVF-Tealc>OK Then I will try to play it on my work :-)
17:38<Eddi|zuHause2>Rubidium: what about relative to the same dir, that contains openttd.cfg?
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17:38<Rubidium>so $HOME/openttd/ ?
17:39<Rubidium>that fails horribly when openttd is installed in %PROGRAM_FILES%/OpenTTD/
17:39<NLVF-Tealc>An other question. When I try to play online I see some chatmesseges but I dont know how to respond
17:39<Eddi|zuHause2>why?
17:40<Eddi|zuHause2>you know the location of openttd.cfg if you read it, from that point on it is not even platform specific
17:40<Rubidium>openttd.cfg in your home directory and only using relative paths does not find the data in programfiles
17:40<Eddi|zuHause2>not "only"
17:41<Eddi|zuHause2>i see no reason to forbid absolute paths
17:41<Eddi|zuHause2>and the files in data/ should be handled differently than newgrfs anyway
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17:45<Rubidium>but the whole issue currently rather is the fact that the windows port thinks it's necessary to prepend the whole current working directory before the path
17:47<HMage>yup
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18:08<kaan>im going to bed, night all
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19:39<Ailure>jrjrjrjehehe
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19:41<Ailure>hehe
19:43<Sacro_>?
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21:03<UndernotBuilder>YAI (Yet Another Idea): what about ability to set prices of the ticket, like in rct?
21:05<Belugas_Gone>the passenger ticket, you mean?
21:07<Belugas_Gone>don't like the idea
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21:08<Belugas_Gone>open door to tons of exageration
21:08<Belugas_Gone>and...
21:08<Belugas_Gone>if you set price for tickets,
21:08<Belugas_Gone>what stop you to set prce for the rest of teh cargos?
21:09<Belugas_Gone>if they do that in rct, well good for them
21:09<Belugas_Gone>we are ottd
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21:14<UndernotBuilder>well... it's obvious that when prices are too high users will complain and you will get less passengers
21:15<UndernotBuilder>and if you set low prices you get some more pax
21:17<Belugas_Gone>problem is that currently, users do not complain, since they are voiceless caracters
21:17<Belugas_Gone>so, basically, they cannot voice anything
21:17<Belugas_Gone>now, froim waht you just mentionned, it means that in fact,
21:17<Belugas_Gone>therer should be a system of balancing offer and demand
21:17<Belugas_Gone>with pricing and all...
21:18<Belugas_Gone>now...
21:18<Belugas_Gone>it may be quite a challenge for a code point of view.
21:18<Belugas_Gone>one that i do not think would be a real benefit of the game.
21:27<Belugas_Gone>i just realize i do not have a single screenshot of what the smallmap looks like in TTDPatch with ukrsi activated
21:27<Belugas_Gone>mmh
21:27<Belugas_Gone>search function on forums, here i go
21:29<DaleStan>Belugas_Gone: The map's industry color key? Probably not very interesting. It only displays the first $SMALLNUM industries.
21:30<Belugas_Gone>what do you mean? there is no list of all the industry legends and colors?
21:30<DaleStan>Yes, there is, but it's in the Fund Industry window instead.
21:31<Belugas_Gone>i see
21:31<Belugas_Gone>so : http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/Right_On_The_Spot.png
21:31<Belugas_Gone>this would be something peculiar to ottd then
21:32<Belugas_Gone>am i right?
21:36<DaleStan>Indeed. Patch doesn't do that. It just shows the default industries, at least with UKRSI
21:37<UndernotBuilder>what is more inneficient than generating diffs based on another diff?
21:38<Belugas_Gone>thanks DaleStan.
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21:39<DaleStan>Lots of things. If you've got two diffs where the second supercedes the first, you have to revert the first diff before you can apply the second. If the second is based on the first, then you only have to apply the second.
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---Logclosed Tue May 08 00:00:09 2007