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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-05-09

---Logopened Wed May 09 00:00:06 2007
00:19<peter1138>pompiedom
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00:53<SpComb>....what was that?
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01:45<valhallasw>intelligent network flood protection >_<
01:46|-|TheJosh [~josh@d58-105-168-173.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
01:46<TheJosh>Hey all
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01:47<TheJosh>how is everyone?
01:48<TheJosh>or better said, where is everyone?
01:48<valhallasw>well
01:48<valhallasw>booted from the network
01:48<valhallasw>a service upgrade with a bug in the flood autokill
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01:49<TheJosh>ah ok
01:50<TheJosh>so everyone that ususally stays logged in all the time got kicked?
01:51<valhallasw>yeah
01:55<TheJosh>so valhallasw, have you seen my 'Found a Town' patch?
01:55<TheJosh>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31558
01:59<valhallasw>hm, nice
01:59<Phazorx>did you change the price?
02:00<TheJosh>yes
02:00<TheJosh>its now based on the industry price like the other town things
02:00<Phazorx>so like 15M at least ?
02:00<Phazorx>i can that being so exploted in MP
02:00<TheJosh>no, its a tad over 7mill (at the start of the game)
02:01<TheJosh>should I double it?
02:01<Phazorx>i'd say at least
02:01<Phazorx>it gives you 2 most lurative kinds of cargo
02:01<Phazorx>and unlimitted expandability
02:01<TheJosh>alright
02:01<TheJosh>so Phazorx, do you do much/any development?
02:02<Phazorx>not for this game :)
02:02<Phazorx>i normally not even looking in this channel actually
02:02<Phazorx>but i do submit bugs or features
02:03<TheJosh>dang...you have no sway for getting it into trunk
02:03<Phazorx>if i see a point that is possible to implement and it has not been done yet
02:03<Phazorx>?
02:03<Phazorx>ahh no
02:03<Phazorx>ask peter tho
02:03<TheJosh>hows 14.5mill (at the start of the game)
02:03<Phazorx>sounds better
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02:03<TheJosh>14,645,000 actually
02:03<Phazorx>25% of player funds would be nice
02:03<valhallasw>TheJosh: there are some strange things in your patch
02:04<TheJosh>that will become 30mill so quickly
02:04<TheJosh>valhallasw: such as?
02:04<valhallasw>oh wait
02:04<Phazorx>TheJosh: inflation isnt used often actually
02:04<valhallasw>no, I'm just not paying attention
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02:05<valhallasw>TheJosh: and you might want to split your patch up; one adding the function comments and one adding your functions
02:06<TheJosh>good point
02:06<valhallasw>and what does InteractiveRandom(); do?
02:06<Phazorx>isn't that system seeded random?
02:06<TheJosh>InteractiveRandom() is basically Random(), but it uses a different seed so you dont desync network games
02:07<valhallasw>ah
02:07<TheJosh>and the name gen function that uses it is only called by the client that builds the town (so yea, all playes have the same town name)
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02:08<Phazorx>oh... you can not name it ?
02:08<Phazorx>do you get a statue and rating automatically ?
02:09<valhallasw>town ratings are 1000
02:10<Phazorx>for founder i assume
02:10<Phazorx>do you get exclusive rights too ? :)
02:10<valhallasw>yes
02:10<Phazorx>kidna would have made sense
02:10<valhallasw>that is, ratings are 1000 for founder; exclusive rights I don't know
02:10<Phazorx>gotcha
02:11<Phazorx>btw if you feel like building valhallasw cooper's PS need some hubs :)
02:12<TheJosh>the founder gets a double-dose of rating
02:12<Phazorx>that's good
02:12<valhallasw>not this week Phazorx; no time
02:12<Phazorx>exclusive rights?
02:12<Phazorx>valhallasw: sad, i hope you are doing soemthig fun tho
02:13<TheJosh>no exclusive rights
02:13<TheJosh>or statue (it looked silly having a statue in a town of like 100 people)
02:13<Phazorx>TheJosh: suggest to think about that :)
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02:13<TheJosh>what? statue or exclusive rights?
02:13<Phazorx>rights
02:13<TheJosh>i was going to have the founder company name listed on the town gui screen
02:14<TheJosh>but ill do that in another patch
02:14<Phazorx>status is for fun - but kinda make sense since i doubt there are other chances to mention player's name
02:14<valhallasw>'valhallasw-town'
02:14<TheJosh>you can always rename it
02:14<Phazorx>i take it all roads in it are town owned rather than player?
02:15<Phazorx>TheJosh: in network game?
02:15<valhallasw>renaming always is possible
02:15<TheJosh>Phazorx: if you build roads first and then dump the town in it, the roads you made will still be owned by you!
02:15<Phazorx>valhallasw: i dont recall it being an option in MP games
02:15<Phazorx>TheJosh: was just a question :)
02:16<TheJosh>Phazorx, valhallasw: you can only rename if your the host i think
02:16<Phazorx>i figure you just used generate function
02:16<Phazorx>it's just funding town is expensive as it should be
02:16<Phazorx>and there is no real way to secure your property
02:16<valhallasw>I don't call 7M expensive
02:16<Phazorx>15
02:16<TheJosh>patch almost released
02:16<Phazorx>relatively it is very expensive
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02:17<valhallasw>well, okay
02:17<TheJosh>you can now get the very latest (with the new price)
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02:17<Phazorx>heh
02:17<Phazorx>fast
02:17<TheMask96>!logs
02:17<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
02:18<TheJosh>have not tested patch yet
02:18<Phazorx>owning roads would be nice but nothing major, exclusive right should be easy to do and does make a lot of sense to me
02:19<TheJosh>although you only get that for a year...
02:19<Phazorx>perhaps you can enhance it a bit?
02:19<Phazorx>i'm not sure how it works tho
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02:19<valhallasw>'Exclusive rights: 5 years for the price of 3'
02:19<Phazorx>heh
02:20<Phazorx>what is the proce for it standard tho ?
02:20<valhallasw>1M/year
02:20<valhallasw>iirc
02:20<TheJosh>i dunno
02:20<Phazorx>thinking about it - i never ever claimed it
02:20<TheJosh>i dont use it
02:20<TheJosh>if you have a good network you make heaps anyway
02:20<valhallasw>can other players see that you have exclusive rights?
02:21<Phazorx>in general - yes
02:21<TheJosh>and if you dont like the compeditors, you can always buy them out and delete them or something
02:21<TheJosh>yes
02:21<Phazorx>well TheJosh i always tend to think about MP and exploitability
02:22<Phazorx>it would suck a lot to build a town and have someone eslse making profit off it instead of you
02:22<TheJosh>good point
02:22<Phazorx>that's what i meant about securing investments
02:22<Phazorx>doesnt stop someone froms crewing around with it tho
02:22<valhallasw>Phazorx: when you fund an industry, other people can use it, too
02:22<Phazorx>unless you own the roads
02:23<Phazorx>valhallasw: i did that many time in MP
02:23<TheJosh>although other people profiting off your town is just their intellegence
02:23<Phazorx>i usualy 1st build station layout and network then fun it
02:23<Phazorx>so by the time it is done - i dont care
02:23<Phazorx>for town - that aproach sint really usuful since it expands
02:25<valhallasw>anyway
02:25<valhallasw>I'm gone
02:25<valhallasw>bbl
02:26<TheJosh>cya
02:30<TheJosh>Phazorx: so you reacken the founder should get 1 year of exclusive?
02:30<TheJosh>Phazorx: i guess i could add that
02:31<Phazorx>1 year is very easy i presume
02:31<Phazorx>more would be ncie (configurable may be?)
02:31<Phazorx>but i'm not sure how it is working
02:32<Phazorx>so perhaps automatic renewal is quite challenging unless there is ingame event manager
02:32<TheJosh>i could do one year rather easy
02:33<TheJosh>to do automatic renewal i would need to change the town struct
02:34<TheJosh>to have a 'is_new_town' flag or something
02:34<TheJosh>and a 'founded_by' variable
02:34<Phazorx>yeah i understand that... again unless there is an event manager and you can queue action multiple times for forced renewal
02:35<TheJosh>not that i know of, only a ticks system, where a function is called regually
02:37<Phazorx>it's a completely different model and i'd same more reliable and demanding
02:38<Phazorx>however havign this many things to check every tick is kinda a lot
02:39<TheJosh>meh
02:39<TheJosh>anyway, i have to go make tea
02:39<TheJosh>cya round
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03:16<ln->wtf happened:
03:16<ln->06:20 -!- Szandor [~user@host-84-9-131-225.bulldogdsl.com] has quit [autokilled: This Host Triggered Network Flood Protection, please mail support@oftc.net (2007-05-09 03:20:27)]
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03:16<ln->... etc, including me.
03:20<boekabart>and now you're flooding AGAIN!!! ;)
03:21<peter1138>hehe
03:22<peter1138>bug in the flood protection bot, i guess
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03:29<Nigel>peter1138: yep
03:29<Nigel>peter1138: FloodServ set a kline for *@*
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03:32<Desolator>bump
03:33<Desolator>I want to change the max amount of loan you can set at the start of the game, but I can't seem to find where it's defined
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03:33<Rubidium>settings_gui?
03:34<peter1138>settings somewhere
03:34<Desolator>hmmm...*checks*
03:34<Rubidium>(assuming you mean you want to make the limit more than 1 million)
03:34<Desolator>and Peter, is your msn alive?
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03:35<Uatec>greetings
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03:50<peter1138>yes it is
03:50<peter1138>but i am busy
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04:10<kaan>hi all
04:12<Uatec>hi
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04:47<boekabart>openttd.grf changed!? when/why?
04:48<Rubidium>svn log bin/data/openttd.grf
04:48<peter1138>things change, yes
04:48<SpComb>someone restore the topic
04:48<boekabart>that doesn't work here, Rubidium, you should do that in a shell :)
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04:49<Rubidium>boekabart: it works perfectly for me
04:49<boekabart>in the irc window?? :)
04:50<boekabart>r9814: -Fix (r1): Remove the duplicate sign sprite from openttd.grf since it's in the original data files.
04:50<boekabart>oki
04:51<Rubidium>boekabart: well, obviously not in IRC, but make doesn't work in IRC either nor does vim
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05:15<boekabart>ok, i made some screenshots of the current version of my 'real water' patch, don't have time to make a nice site now so here is the whole bunch as a rar (including patch): http://boekabart.googlepages.com/Boekabart_RealWater_Shots_v3.rar
05:15<Tefad>hah googlepages : D
05:15<boekabart>yeah, free and fast
05:15<boekabart>(note: this is _NOT_ the deep-sea patch ! )
05:16<Tefad>right.. i just forget what the limitations are
05:16<boekabart>well, just 100 mb storage...
05:17<Tefad>well, is it required to use that silly cookie-cutter editor they provide
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05:18<Tefad>hi mr windows 3.0
05:18<boekabart>not for hosting files only
05:18<Tefad>yup yup.
05:18<Tefad>good point
05:18<Tefad>i'm going to guess they don't have refer checks eh?
05:18<boekabart>if you just want to put info + files online quickly it's a totally allright service.
05:19<Tefad>most ISPs have direct connection to most popular search sites i think
05:19<Tefad>eg yahoo/google
05:19<Tefad>the big ISPs anyway
05:19<Tefad>15ms to google here
05:19<Tefad>eh, not so good for yahoo
05:20<boekabart>that's probably only to the search server, not to pages.
05:23<Tefad>lets see
05:24<Tefad>goes through the same route, about 2x latency on the server
05:24<Tefad>then again, if i ping www.google.com 1-off i get the same latencies
05:25<Tefad>(alternate ip)
05:25<Tefad>just depends on what server i get.. it's all distributed craziness : )
05:26<boekabart>It's a whole lot better than the service that Sergej_S is using, that's for sure.
05:26<Tefad>heh
05:26<Thomas[NL]>It floods with different heights?
05:27<boekabart>in this version, v3, the 'source' on the mountain always gives it's 'lowest' neighbour half the difference
05:27<boekabart>actually all tiles do this, but sources 'give' instead of 'share'
05:28<peter1138>gah, fucking rar files
05:28<boekabart>zip better?
05:29<boekabart>in v4 (which i have at home only), a source (not coast) just gives 1 'water' per tileloop, works a bit better, but you cannot create a mountain lake that way
05:29<peter1138>hmm
05:29[~]peter1138 looks at all the imiages
05:29<peter1138>images, too
05:30<Thomas[NL]>drying up :o
05:30<boekabart>yeah, that was actually the hardest to do
05:30<boekabart>still doesn't always work, sometimes the water keeps going around in circles
05:30<peter1138>hmm, corner water tiles?
05:30<peter1138>if you load the newwater grf they should show properly
05:31<peter1138>praps
05:31<Thomas[NL]>what is the second source in hill_2sources?
05:32<boekabart>it's 2 tiles 'down' from the 1st
05:32<boekabart>it generates more current, basically as you can see, whole downstream river fills
05:32<peter1138>hmmm
05:32<peter1138>instead of a single line
05:33<peter1138>that is actually fucking cool
05:33<boekabart>thanks
05:33<boekabart>i think so too
05:33<peter1138>we need a spring sprite for the sources...
05:33<Thomas[NL]>does it have some kind of vaporise mechanism?
05:34<peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/o/o/ < btw
05:35<boekabart>vaporise: no, that's hard: there is so little source, and so much 'water surface', everything dries up
05:36<boekabart>as you can see in the shots, we need a shitload of sprites
05:38<boekabart>alt. url: http://picasaweb.google.com/boekabart/RealWaterV3Shots
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05:40<peter1138>at least there's no sprite limit any more :)
05:41<kaan>real nice water :)
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05:47<Thomas[NL]>how many sloped water-tiles will be needed?
05:47<peter1138>sheds
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06:26<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... springs could have different output depending on season
06:26<Eddi|zuHause3>or random events
06:26<boekabart>tried that!
06:27<boekabart>but random floodings will require a whole new job in ottd:
06:27<boekabart>water management
06:28<Eddi|zuHause3>random event: spring output x2/4/8
06:28<peter1138>heh
06:28<peter1138>more like a disaster :)
06:28<Eddi|zuHause3>this could provide cool flood disasters :)
06:28<boekabart>the whole problem with the patch is that it's so dynamic
06:28<boekabart>the world in ottd has always been static, mainly
06:28<peter1138>i'm thinking we need to modify towngrowth so that it doesn't terraform in a way that'll flood itself
06:29<boekabart>for instance
06:29<boekabart>(that actually already happens with polder towns with the deep-sea patch :) )
06:29<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, it needs severe refining until it is 'production ready' :)
06:30<Eddi|zuHause3>well, it should be easy, just add a check if the terraforming would affect a coast tile
06:31<Eddi|zuHause3>you'll also need locks to keep water level in canals constant
06:32<Eddi|zuHause3>(which is done IRL also)
06:32<peter1138>hmm
06:33<peter1138>you know what would be cool
06:33<Sionide>what?
06:33<Eddi|zuHause3>"are you thinking what i am thinking, pinky?"
06:33<peter1138>if all tile heights could be 1 pixel instead of 8...
06:33<peter1138>gradual slopes...
06:34<boekabart>Eddi|zuHause3: now THAT was a cool remark... where to download those videos....
06:34<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, like 256 height levels
06:34<boekabart>peter1138: I was about to write that: I think that is acutally necessary
06:34<peter1138>!
06:34<peter1138>well ok, i'll join the queue for your babies
06:34<boekabart>v4 has a little bit of that in it... a huge gfx challenge though
06:34<Eddi|zuHause3>but you'll click yourself crazy when doing big terraforming
06:35<boekabart>if your name implies it correct, you're male so how can you possible have my babies?
06:35<peter1138>obviously i'd be a long way down the queue
06:37<boekabart>hm. how about lowering land pixel-by-pixel, making the sides 'walls' like we already have
06:38<boekabart>should be to-tally doable
06:38<Uatec>that looks quite cool boekabart (the water)
06:39<boekabart>hm, like a tile height offset (down only) per tile (not per tile corner)....
06:39<Eddi|zuHause3>if you want to have "walls", you'll need to store 4 heights for each tile
06:39[~]boekabart has something to try tonight
06:39<boekabart>no, just the offset i think.
06:39<Eddi|zuHause3>or one height, and 3 relative heights
06:40<boekabart>we'll just need wall graphics for all 7/8 heights
06:41<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, no, if you're going to introduce cliffs, they should actually be possible to span multiple height levels
06:41|-|Thomas[NL]_ [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
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06:42<boekabart>don't want cliffs higher than 1 tile
06:42<Eddi|zuHause3>or like this: on one tile you can have flat (0), shallow slopes (1-8), steep slopes (9-16) and cliffs (>16)
06:42<boekabart>if higher, next tiles sink (collapse)
06:42<boekabart>cliff = wall is between tiles, not on tile
06:43<Eddi|zuHause3>where 8 would be 1 current slope
06:43<Uatec>boekabart, have you published any of this water fantasia yet?
06:44<Eddi|zuHause3>well, based on this distribution, you can choose what to allow on certain tiles
06:44<Eddi|zuHause3>flat = allow all
06:44|-|Thomas[NL]_ changed nick to Thomas[NL]
06:44<Eddi|zuHause3>shallow slope = allow foundations
06:44<Eddi|zuHause3>steep slopes = allow only roads/rails going along the slopes
06:45<Eddi|zuHause3>cliffs = allow only tunnel entrances
06:45<Eddi|zuHause3>(or bridge heads)
06:47<Uatec>ick
06:47<boekabart>Actually I find that annoying in current situation: if I have currently a 'cliffed' wall , a bridge cannot start there (without head). :(
06:47<boekabart>uatec: no, not yet published. up in this chat is a link to a rar with a patch but that's not the latest
06:48<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, needs custombridgeheads, but development was cancelled because of code limitations
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06:50<Eddi|zuHause3>if i understand the issue correctly, the problem was, that a vehicle on the bridge is virtually on the bridge end tile, but if that tile has a signal on it, the vehicle cannot stop on the bridge, because it does not enter the end tile (it is already there)
06:52<boekabart>i think the whole rail network should be 'mirrored' in a separate graph anyway, so there don't need to be tile limitations for this. plus pathfinding would be a lot faster, right?
06:53<Eddi|zuHause3>well, the pathfinder already caches the rail network
06:53<boekabart>it does? yapf?
06:53<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, at least long sections without crossings/switches
06:53<peter1138>yapf does, npf/ntp don't
06:53<boekabart>so make the train 'driving' routines use that graph
06:54<boekabart>and then map the position to tilex/y
06:54<boekabart>and z
06:54<Eddi|zuHause3>no, it's too much an abstraction, i don't think that is easily possible
06:54<boekabart>nothing cool is ever easy
06:54<Eddi|zuHause3>and it would not solve the problem
06:55<ln->interesting, in (ubuntu) linux kernel source, there's the following line:
06:55<boekabart>anyway, that's currently too complex for me, don't know the code that well yet
06:55<ln->#warning TODO: hier muss abgefragt werden, ob skb->len <= 0 ist, und ggf. ein -EINVAL zurückliefern, sonst wird zwar einmal confirmed, aber es regt sich nichts mehr. dies bitte auch für den d-kanal überdenken, sowie für alle andere kartentreiber.
06:55<Eddi|zuHause3>because you would still have to "stack" tiles, to determine, if the train is on the bridge or under the bridge
06:56<Eddi|zuHause3>currently, this is determined by the fact that the vehicle is on a bridge head tile
06:57<Eddi|zuHause3>so a vehicle on the bridge never is on a tile between the bridge heads
06:57<boekabart>also when it's on the middle of the bridge?
06:57<boekabart>aha, i see, didn't know that
06:57<Eddi|zuHause3>yes
06:57<boekabart>so THAT is the reason tunnel/bridge heads can't have signals
06:57<Eddi|zuHause3>it's the same as for tunnels
06:58<boekabart>it's just on an offset that is officially too large from that tile... right. interesting solution.. this sawyer guy wasn't so stupid after all :)
06:58<boekabart>that actually doesn't explain at all why 45-degree tunnels and bridges aren't possible
06:58<Eddi|zuHause3>well, originally this was only for tunnels, for bridges this was adapted in the bridge branch (by tron/celestar)
06:59<boekabart>so how did bridges work before?
06:59<peter1138>some different magic
06:59<Eddi|zuHause3>there was an own tile type for bridge middle tiles
07:02<peter1138>"an own" is so wrong in english :)
07:02<boekabart>so why don't 45 deg bridges / tunnels exist?
07:03<boekabart>only reason i can thin of is.. the code to figure out whether a tile has a bridge/tunnel would be a little much slower
07:04<Eddi|zuHause3>peter1138: what exactly is wrong?
07:04<boekabart>'an own' :)
07:04<boekabart>i think the word 'own'
07:04<boekabart>should be 'special' or similar
07:04<Eddi|zuHause3>it makes perfect sense if you read it like german :)
07:05<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: there is a difference between "makes sense" and "is correct English"
07:06<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, i know
07:06<Rubidium>"I am going to have an vacation" would (probably) make sense, but it isn't correct English
07:06<Eddi|zuHause3>so what i want to know is: "what would be proper english"
07:10<boekabart>"There was a dedicated tile type for bridge middle tiles"
07:10<boekabart>"which could only support very limited tracks/roads under it. It totally sucked."
07:12<peter1138>heh
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07:20<boekabart>So where does 1138 come from
07:22<Rubidium>when he signed up for [random email account] he was the 1138th Peter?
07:23<Uatec>maybe it was 11:38 when he signed up
07:23<peter1138>boekabart: well, starwars i guess, but it was just random
07:23<peter1138>too late to change it now ;p
07:23<Uatec>never too late
07:24|-|peter1138 changed nick to peter`
07:24<peter`>hah
07:24<Eddi|zuHause3>now that looks odd :p
07:25<@Belugas>hello
07:26<boekabart>peter`: did no-one ever ask before?
07:27<Uatec>only one person asked about my name
07:27<Uatec>and then they wrote about it in a dutch gaming magazine
07:28<Uatec>i think it was a gaming magazine
07:28<Uatec>i couldn't read it
07:28<boekabart>i could have
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07:28<boekabart>dutch is easy
07:28<Uatec>when my web guy gets his thumb out i'll go on to our website and get the url of the online article
07:29<peter`>boekabart: plenty did, most just know ;p
07:30<boekabart>wikipedia: 1138 is the natural number following 1137 and preceding 1139. It is equal to 1000 + 100 + 15 + 15 + 6 + 2.
07:30<Uatec>damn
07:31<Thomas[NL]>Unable to Establish Connection?
07:31<Uatec>boekabart, it's also equal to 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1117
07:31<peter`>heh
07:31<boekabart>it's truly a magin number
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07:32<Uatec>you found the article, Thomas[NL]?
07:32<boekabart>I'd like to use this as my nick... ₪װ©К
07:32<Thomas[NL]>http://www.ownage.nl/article/424/ I think
07:32<Uatec>yup that's it
07:32<Zuu>I asked my calculator on my phone what 1138 is, and it answered: 100% 1138 xD
07:32<Uatec>any onw know what it says
07:32<Uatec>?
07:32|-|lolman_ [~50c14282@webuser.thegrebs.com] has quit [Quit: TheGrebs.com CGI:IRC (EOF)]
07:33<Thomas[NL]>I'm reading it now
07:33<boekabart>it's try: ProjectorGames.co.uk : Unable to establish connection
07:33<boekabart>it's true
07:34<boekabart>a name well chosen
07:34<Uatec>:)
07:34<Uatec>http://projectorgames.livejournal.co.uk/
07:34<Uatec>the web noob has screwed the web server
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07:34<boekabart>2nd link also nogo
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07:35<Uatec>http://projectorgames.livejournal.com/
07:35<Uatec>OBVIOUSLY
07:35[~]Uatec kicks self in head
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07:41<Thomas[NL]>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1651221202388387390&q=projectorgames cool vid
07:43<boekabart>is it a group or a company?
07:44<Uatec>projectorgames?
07:44<Uatec>group
07:45<Thomas[NL]>looks verry funny!
07:45<boekabart>looks awesome
07:46<Uatec>we've got a dune 2 remake underway atm
07:46<Uatec>and tower defence
07:46<Uatec>and a secret ottd related project too
07:47<boekabart>maybe ottd is a llittle too slow?
07:47<Uatec>that wont be using the normal PG hardware platform
07:47<Uatec>also, i said ottd 'related'
07:48<kaan>sounds interesting :)
07:48<@Belugas>a fork!
07:48<Uatec>yes
07:48<@Belugas>with blue gui
07:48<Uatec>it's a secret fork
07:48<Uatec>with which to eat secret food
07:49<kaan>i cant wait to see what you come up with :)
07:49<@Belugas>i hope you don't want to implement xml as a nfo replacement...
07:49[~]Belugas shuts up
07:49<boekabart>can't find any details on how the platform works though
07:51<Uatec>how which platform?
07:51<Uatec>the PG platform?
07:52<boekabart>yea
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07:54<peter`>peter gabriel?
07:55|-|RobertGrammig [~Unke@vpn0546.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #openttd
07:55[~]boekabart thinks peter` is less smart than peter1138... maybe he should reclaim that nick
07:55<peter`>frankly i hate it now ;p
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07:55<boekabart>which of the 2?
07:55<peter`>1138
07:56<boekabart>so increase it a bit
07:56<peter`>o_O
07:56<peter`>i'm 1139 on freenode atm
07:56<boekabart>and, does that feel better?
07:56<peter`>no
07:56<boekabart>did you try 42? the mythic value of that number is at least comparable
07:56<boekabart>if not bigger
07:57<peter`>no, i think i need to have no number
07:59<Thomas[NL]>do you need the '?
07:59<boekabart>it's a `
07:59<peter`>yes, because without is already taken
08:00<boekabart>in that case... might cause some confusion
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08:12<TrueBrain>hmm, can someone +o DorpsGek? :)
08:13|-|mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
08:14<boekabart>wow, ChanServ is pretty good at understanding english
08:14<TrueBrain>@op
08:14|-|mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
08:14|-|[TrueBrain] changed the topic of #openttd: 0.5.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices
08:14<boekabart>hmm, can someone +o boekabart? :)
08:14<@TrueBrain>@deop
08:14|-|mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
08:14<TrueBrain>@kick boekabart
08:14|-|boekabart kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [TrueBrain]
08:14<TrueBrain>sorry, wrong command :p
08:15<Eddi|zuHause3>somehow, i saw that coming :p
08:15<TrueBrain>:)
08:17<kaan>does anyone know how many different make systems there has been in ottd?
08:17<TrueBrain>2
08:17<TrueBrain>Pre-'makefile rewrite' and 'makefile rewrite'
08:17<TrueBrain>(the latter being: ./configure && make, the first being make SETTINGS:=GOHERE
08:18<kaan>ok, its just that i came across cargo-packets and its not like anything else
08:18<TrueBrain>cargo-packets is pre-'makefile rewrite'
08:18<TrueBrain>it only has a Makefile, and no dir-structure :)
08:19|-|boekabart [~boekabart@81.58.27.138] has joined #openttd
08:19[~]boekabart won't be able to sit for a week, after that kick
08:20<TrueBrain>:) Hehehehehe
08:20<TrueBrain>you asked for it ;)
08:20<boekabart>no, i asked for +o !! :)
08:21<Uatec>ah
08:21<Uatec>potato potato
08:21<Uatec>damn
08:22<Uatec>that doesn't work in irc
08:23<Uatec>grr
08:23<Uatec>can't stream radio
08:23<Uatec>*sigh*
08:24<boekabart>skype has that now: spoken irc channels. how useless can that be.
08:24<Uatec>lol
08:24<Uatec>yeah
08:24<Uatec>i saw
08:24<kaan>ok, thanks true*
08:24<Uatec>i don't think i've ever been less interested in something
08:25<Uatec>the point of irc is that you can give it half your attention
08:25<Uatec>if you're only half listening to skype, it's pretty much unusable
08:28|-|peter` changed nick to peter1138
08:31<Uatec>ach
08:32<Uatec>when i started this download it was going at 800kb/s
08:32<Uatec>now it's down to 30kb/s
08:32[~]Uatec listens to the tt music to pass the time
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08:36[~]boekabart wishes he HAD the ttd music
08:38<Uatec>my friend found me some mp3s of it
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08:50<peter1138>...
08:50<peter1138>it's on the CD...
08:51<lolman>peter1138, I think they mean MP3 or something
08:51<Rubidium>the original midis are much better...
08:51<lolman>Rubidium, I agree
08:52<lolman>Better for nostalgia as well...can chuck them at an FM synthesizer :)
08:52<peter1138>yes, the sb live wavetable/timidity stuff doesn't sound right :(
08:52<Uatec>Rubidium, you're right
08:52<Uatec>but i couldn't find anything to play the original files
08:53<peter1138>a midi player...
08:53<boekabart>the game?
08:53<lolman>Uatec, rename them to .mid and chuck em at a MIDI player
08:53<Uatec>what plays midi in this day and age?
08:53<Uatec>VLC didn't
08:53<lolman>What OS?
08:53<kaan>can anyone please explain what the masterserver_updater branch is for?
08:53<Uatec>vista, xp, os x AND windows mobile 6
08:53<Uatec>:|
08:54<lolman>For Windows, WMP will deal with it
08:54<Rubidium>@openttd log 7808
08:54<kaan>ok, ill look it up then, thanks :)
08:54<Uatec>ah
08:54<Rubidium>!openttd log 7808
08:54<_42_>Rubidium: r7808 log: [MasterServer-Updater] This branch is an effort to make the masterserver and
08:54<_42_>Rubidium: website's serverlist updater use the same base-code for the networking part
08:54<Uatec>i uninstalled wmp, cos it screws with my life
08:54<_42_>Rubidium: as trunk does. It also tackles the current 'misdesign' that the masterserver
08:54<_42_>Rubidium: updates the game information of the website's serverlist instead of only the
08:54<_42_>Rubidium: server state (online/offline).
08:55<Rubidium>@op
08:55|-|mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by DorpsGek
08:55<@Rubidium>@deop
08:55|-|mode/#openttd [-o Rubidium] by DorpsGek
08:55<kaan>ok thanks Rubidium
08:56<TrueBrain>Rubidium: use 'commit' with @
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09:08<boekabart>OK then: http://boekabart.googlepages.com/TTD-Demo-Musicfiles.rar
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09:08<kaan>would it be safe to assume that any OTTD source checkout that contains the dir "src" is post "makefile-rewrite"?
09:08<boekabart>all the original music files from ttd demo ( think)
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09:09<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, kaan
09:10<kaan>ok thanks, it makes it a bit easyer to write a compile script :)
09:11<DaleStan>peter1138: What did you have in mind here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=583183#583183 ? The link you left goes to someplace completely different than its text suggests it should go. Was that intentional?
09:11<peter1138>well it's your link
09:12<TrueBrain>@openttd commit 7759
09:12<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r7759 /trunk (531 files in 37 dirs) (2007-01-02 19:19:48 UTC)
09:12<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: -Merge: makefile rewrite. This merge features:
09:12<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - A proper ./configure, so everything needs to be configured only once, not for every make.
09:12<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Usage of makedepend when available. This greatly reduces the time needed for generating the dependencies.
09:12<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - A generator for all project files. There is a single file with sources, which is used to generate Makefiles and the project files for MSVC.
09:12<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
09:12<TrueBrain>lol, of course it misses the important things :p
09:12<kaan>hehe
09:13<peter1138> - Adds a few bugs
09:13<peter1138>?
09:13<TrueBrain>kaan: but the easiest is to check for 'configure'
09:13<peter1138>why? the old one had configure...
09:13<TrueBrain>peter1138: it did?!
09:13<peter1138>yes
09:13<TrueBrain>Okay: Makefile.in
09:13<TrueBrain>:)
09:13<kaan>it did give me new info though, how did you go about the make process in the old system?
09:14<TrueBrain>kaan: how do you mean exactly?
09:14<kaan>make && make install
09:14<kaan>or what did you go through?
09:15<kaan>maybe there is an old wiki revision where i can look it up
09:15<TrueBrain>just 'make'
09:16<TrueBrain>but instead of ./configure setting all kinds of stuff, the first time you run 'make' all kinds of things were autodetected
09:16<TrueBrain>and written down in Makefile.forgotwhatitwas
09:16<kaan>ok, then what does make install do?
09:16<TrueBrain>kind of ugly :p You could control the detection by settings
09:16<TrueBrain>make install was pretty much broken
09:16<kaan>or was it make bundle?
09:16<TrueBrain>we now introduced 'make bundle' which makes a bundle out of all the files
09:16<TrueBrain>but that is after rewrite
09:16<kaan>oh
09:16<kaan>ok i shouldnt count on that then ;)
09:17<TrueBrain>almost no branch works with the old make system
09:17<glx>was Makefile.config
09:17<TrueBrain>and the 2 that do, are no longer in use
09:17<kaan>well, how about the 0.5 branch then?
09:17<TrueBrain>hmm, good point
09:18<TrueBrain>the old make system was a pain in the ass
09:18<kaan>well i have to support it somehow ;)
09:18<TrueBrain>good luck ;)
09:18<TrueBrain>I am going to play C&C3 on my xbox :)
09:18<kaan>thanks :P
09:18<DaleStan>peter1138: Yeah, but it *was* an image. Now it's just the URL of that image. My idea was show the image and link to the flash. But now no one can get to the image without a whole lot more work than I'd expect anyone to perform. Especially not the type of person who actually needs to see it.
09:20<valhallasw>DaleStan: what about not being this rude to new members
09:20<valhallasw>no-one forces you to help or react
09:21<DaleStan>/ignore valhallasw
09:21<DaleStan>erm.. I mean...
09:21<DaleStan>But is that really the most polite solution?
09:22<valhallasw>a simple 'As far as I know it has not been released yet' is less typing *and* more polite
09:22<valhallasw>and it saves you annoyance, I hope
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09:23<peter1138>better? :P
09:24<DaleStan>Yeah.
09:24<kaan>hmmm, 6 of 15 branches still run the old make even if checked out as HEAD
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09:25<boekabart>peter1138: You're a new member? Hi, welcome to openttd! ;)
09:25<Eddi|zuHause3>0.5, miniin and some horribly outdated experiments?
09:25<DaleStan>In the short term, or in the long term? Sure, "It ain't been released" gets the immediate problem solved, but it doesn't get the user to do the work himself and stop bothering us.
09:25<kaan>* as of revision 9815
09:25<kaan> * trunk head is newmake
09:25<kaan> * 0.4 head is oldmake
09:25<kaan> * 0.5 head is oldmake
09:25<kaan> * 32bbp head is newmake
09:25<kaan> * cargo-packets DEAD branch
09:25<kaan> * coopetition head is oldmake
09:25<Rubidium>kaan: of those 6 exactly 1 (0.5) is 'maintained'
09:25<kaan> * cpp_gui head is newmake
09:25<kaan> * custombridgeheads head is newmake
09:25<kaan> * gamebalance head is newmake
09:25<kaan> * map head is oldmake
09:25<kaan> * masterserver_updater is not a game branch
09:25<kaan> * mempool head is newmake
09:25<kaan> * MiniIN head is oldmake
09:25<kaan> * NewGRF_ports head is newmake
09:26<kaan> * NoAi head is newmake
09:26<kaan>sorry for the flood
09:27<Uatec>heh
09:30<@Belugas>kaan : not a problem. Out of what you've shown, everything is fine. MiniIN is dead, map is dead, coopetition is not a dev branch and cargo-packet is dead. The rest is fine and newmake
09:30<@Belugas>apart from 0.4 and 0.5, but Rubidium already told you aobut it :)
09:30|-|mode/#openttd [-o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
09:30<Rubidium>Belugas: 0.4 is also dead
09:30<kaan>yeah, i guess i could just remove them from the list
09:31<kaan>but i can feel it in my gutt that someday some newbie is going to check out r1 of trunk and then come complining when bottd doesnt know what to do with it ;)
09:32<Rubidium>so just get revisions from r8000+ ?
09:33<kaan>hmmmm, thats sounds doable and reasonable
09:35<kaan>ok i have a few ideas on what to do now, thanks for the feedback guys
09:38|-|mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
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09:46<Sacro>kaan: you are doing bottd?
09:47<kaan>yes i am :)
09:48<Sacro>ah nice, i'm quite interested in it
09:49<Uatec>bottd?
09:49<kaan>If there is anything you want to know about it, just ask :)
09:50<kaan>its short for BuildOTTD
09:51<eJoJ>how can i get the sources to 5.1 from svn?
09:51<Sacro>well, i like the idea of a single download environment for bulding openttd
09:51<boekabart>note: it's 0.5.1
09:51<Sacro>how about including some kind of editor
09:51<eJoJ>ok 0.5.1, how can i get the source for it using svn?
09:52<kaan>editor?
09:52<kaan>like a source code editor?
09:52<boekabart>svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/branches/0.5.1 ?
09:52<Sacro>kaan: yeah
09:52<Sacro>add in gvim :p
09:52<kaan>hehe
09:53<kaan>well its beyond the scope of what im trying to do here
09:53<kaan>plenty of other good tools for that :)
09:53<Rubidium>svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/0.5.1
09:53<Rubidium>eJoJ ^
09:53<boekabart>sorry, i was wrong, Rubidum is right
09:53<eJoJ>thanks rubidum, that fixed it
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10:02<Ailure>bah
10:03<boekabart>and good day to you too!
10:03<Ailure>!logs
10:03<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
10:03<Ailure>seems like I was disconnected for six hours ago
10:03<Ailure>and hello
10:04<Uatec>six hours?
10:04<Uatec>alot can happen in 6 hours
10:05<Ailure>[05:18] * Disconnected
10:05<Ailure>[17:00] * Attempting to rejoin channel #openttd
10:05<Ailure>That's more like 12 hours even
10:05<Uatec>umm
10:05<Uatec>that's 12
10:05<Uatec>:P
10:05<Rubidium>Ailure: floodserv bug; everybody was kicked
10:05<Ailure>I figure
10:06<Ailure>I got a message that I was rejoining too fast
10:06<Ailure>well
10:06<Ailure>like 20 of them
10:06<Ailure>but still
10:07<Ailure>And I wish I knew why I only have remains of a TTD install
10:07<Ailure>and not all files
10:07<Ailure>for some reason I don't have the TTD binary XD
10:08<Ailure>but I have the patched binary
10:08<Ailure>and random data files are missing
10:08<Ailure>all of my old savegames are there
10:08<Ailure>odd
10:08<Ailure>haha
10:08<Ailure>my ttdpatch.cfg was priceless
10:08<Ailure>win2k=1
10:09<boekabart>maybe these files were kicked too last night...
10:09<Ailure>doubt it
10:09<Ailure>probably more like me making some improper backup
10:09<Ailure>at some point
10:09<Ailure>somehow
10:09<Ailure>My install of orginal TT was backupped fine but hmm
10:10<Uatec>BACKUPPED?!?!?!?!?!
10:10<Uatec>that's not a word
10:10<Uatec>BACKED UP! i thank you
10:10|-|blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd
10:11<Ailure>hahaha
10:11<Ailure>priceless
10:11<Ailure>I try running transport tycoon
10:11<Ailure>and I get a black screen
10:11<Ailure>guess I run it in dosbox instead
10:12<boekabart>i just started TTO in XP, and it runs
10:12<boekabart>mouse isn't fluent thought
10:12<boekabart>it even appears on both monitors (twice the same of course)
10:13<Ailure>odd
10:13<Uatec>TTO?
10:13<Ailure>it dosen't work at all here
10:13<Ailure>and I have two monitors
10:13<boekabart>that's short for Transport Tycoon (original)
10:13<Uatec>ah
10:14<Ailure>oh god
10:14<Uatec>Where?
10:14<Ailure>I jus loaded the last game I had before I started using TTDX
10:14<Ailure>wow
10:14<boekabart>up there
10:14<Uatec>Why's he following me?
10:14<Ailure>at least the volume meter in the jukebox works
10:14<Sacro>TTO runs under XP?
10:15<boekabart>here it does
10:15<Ailure>http://194.47.44.201/mars.PNG
10:16<Ailure>apparently this was the last game I was playing with before I obtained TTDX
10:16<Ailure>I'm cringing at my own network D:
10:16<boekabart>TTO had mars!?
10:16<Uatec>:)
10:16<Ailure>but I practically get away with it
10:16<Ailure>yes
10:16<peter1138>yes
10:16<Ailure>Mars is from TTO
10:16<peter1138>obtained, huh?>
10:16<Ailure>hush
10:16<peter1138>from a shop, presuabmly...
10:16<Ailure>of course
10:16<Ailure>*cough*
10:16<Ailure>I got TTO was a birthday present though
10:17<boekabart>hm, does DosBox exist for *nix?
10:17<Ailure>But TTD was a bit hard to obtain so I had to go through certain... channels.
10:17<Ailure>Yes it does
10:17<Ailure>heh
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10:17<Uatec>yes boekabart
10:18<Ailure>http://194.47.44.201/recyclingMars.PNG
10:18<Ailure>I remember thinking it was pretty strange
10:18<boekabart>cool, mars has coal.. but if you dig too deep you hit lava
10:18<Ailure>seeing mars aircraft in temperate
10:18<Ailure>when I played through TTD for the first time
10:18<peter1138>i got my copy from ebay o_O
10:18[~]boekabart just remembers that earth is the same...
10:18<Ailure>and btw
10:19<Ailure>it's pretty much the same as temperate
10:19<peter1138>obviously not the dodgy copies of ttdpatch you can buy, heh
10:19<Ailure>hell you can switch graphics during midgame
10:19<Ailure>Farms were rather funny
10:19<Ailure>instead of covering the terrain with farmland
10:19<Ailure>it was restricted to a rather small area
10:19<Ailure>Like in the first screenshot
10:19<peter1138>in tto, they are just a normal industry
10:20<peter1138>no extra land
10:20<Ailure>I realize how much OTTD and ttdpatch have changed my playing style
10:20<Ailure>I try to zoom out with the scrollmouse all the time
10:20<Ailure>at least it's what I expected
10:21<Ailure>the mars graphics also changes the pallette
10:21<Ailure>as far I can tell, only the water cycle palette is changed though
10:21<Ailure>heh there's even a bug related to palette cycling
10:22<Ailure>if you turn animation to low
10:22<Ailure>which turns of palette cycling
10:22<Ailure>and change graphics
10:22|-|lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
10:23<Ailure>http://194.47.44.201/redwater.PNG
10:23<Ailure>TTO had a quite few fun bugs :)
10:23<boekabart>actually these last 10 minutes whould have been perfectly OK on a voice-irc channel ;)
10:23<Ailure>Same town as the the mars.PNG, but with animations turned on low
10:23<peter1138>good ol' tt grass...
10:23<boekabart>i think i like it better
10:24<Ailure>for the plain grass i'm neutral
10:24<Ailure>but I think the rough land and rocks looks better in TTO
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10:24<Ailure>they look more bland in TTD
10:24<Ailure>http://194.47.44.201/roughland.PNG
10:24<boekabart>Ailure: can you make the window a bit bigger so there's more in the shots
10:25<boekabart>BWAHAHAHA
10:25<Ailure>It's a DOS game
10:25<Ailure>Or rather
10:25<Ailure>the resolution is hardcoded
10:25<Ailure>you can't expand the window like openTTD
10:25<boekabart>kiddin...
10:25|-|lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
10:25<Ailure>;P
10:25<boekabart>i like the rocks better too
10:25<boekabart>AND the toolbar
10:26<Ailure>I like the TTD GUI better though
10:26<boekabart>not the layout, the icons on it
10:26<Ailure>The depth in the TTO gui was a bit overdone
10:26<Ailure>which is probably why it was simplified with TTD
10:27<Ailure>I fogrot that company info window
10:27<Ailure>almost took 1/4 of the screens
10:29<Ailure>http://194.47.44.201/face.PNG
10:29<boekabart>evil
10:29<Ailure>heh thoose faces even used the palette cycling colours
10:29<boekabart>ah, no it's emil ;)
10:29<Ailure>so the cyborg eye is using the water swapping
10:29<Ailure>eh that's my real name
10:29<Ailure>faked last name
10:29<elmex>Alanin: whats that?
10:29<Ailure>I thought they looked japanse so heh D:
10:30<boekabart>why is the arrow purple there?
10:30<elmex>Ailure: what gfx. pack is that?
10:31<Ailure>TTO+World Edition
10:31<Ailure>;)
10:31<elmex>oh
10:31<elmex>does it work with openttd?
10:31<Ailure>Some of the mars graphics was reused for TTD
10:31<Ailure>no
10:31<elmex>oh
10:31<Ailure>You see all the futuristic planes in TTD?
10:31<Ailure>Thoose was mars planes
10:31<Ailure>same for the tubular bridge
10:33|-|helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd
10:33<RobertGrammig>that mars scenario looks great... much better than crazy toonland
10:33<RobertGrammig>hope it gets replaced by that one day ;)
10:33<Ailure>someone already made a conversion set
10:33<Ailure>for toyland
10:33<Ailure>http://194.47.44.201/bridge.PNG
10:34<Ailure>http://194.47.44.201/bridge2.PNG
10:34<Ailure>the tubular bridge was orginally just a graphics replacement for the cantilever bridge
10:34<Uatec>i hate them both
10:34<Uatec>you can't see through either of them
10:35<Ailure>the tubular bridge tries to fake transparency though
10:35<boekabart>they still do
10:35<Uatec>i thought that the tubular bridge was supposed to have holes in it
10:35<boekabart>ah, no, now they are mesh, right?
10:36<Uatec>*shrugs*
10:36<Uatec>that what i always thouught
10:36<boekabart>actually the transparency works pretty good on this shot
10:37<Ailure>I wish I knew why Chris Sawyer just didn't make a climate out of the mars graphics
10:37<Ailure>instead of going for toyland
10:37<Uatec>toyland gives me a headache
10:37<Ailure>then he did reuse the mars graphics for osme stuff
10:37<Uatec>anyway, temperate is the only decent climate anyway
10:37<Ailure>for the futuristic aircrafts and tubular bridge
10:37<peter1138>yay for TTO's chunky gui
10:37<boekabart>this tubular is also just a mesh, not transparency
10:38<Ailure>which is why I say faked transparency
10:39<Ailure>I seen same effect being used for glass in some other games xD
10:39<Ailure>it might be supposed to be a mesh
10:39<Ailure>might not
10:39<Ailure>it's hard to tell
10:39<boekabart>yes but your remakt implied that it's different in ttdx
10:39<boekabart>which isn't
10:39<Ailure>ah sorry for that
10:39<Ailure>heh
10:40<Ailure>ironically, the framerate is a bit higher
10:41<Ailure>But i'm not sure why, I heard somewhere that OTTD have lower framerate than TTDX
10:44<DaleStan>I'm not sure if "framerate" is the right word, but yes. TTD uses 27ms ticks. OTTD uses 30 ms ticks.
10:44<Uatec>TTDX is alot simpler than OTTD
10:44<boekabart>in what sense?
10:44<Uatec>a, refreshrate?
10:44<Ailure>hmm heh well
10:44<Uatec>is fixed? at a different value?
10:44<Ailure>I just noticed that the palette cycle was noticeable faster
10:45<Uatec>boekabart, if you tried to run ottd on a machine which ttdx was designed for it would fall over
10:45<Uatec>there's a reason ttdx was as restricted as it was
10:45<Uatec>which was because the hardwar eof the day wasn't capable of handling too much
10:45<Ailure>the company colours are a bit diffrent too
10:45<Uatec>nowadays we can put more in
10:45<Uatec>and do more
10:45<peter1138>so you mean simpler code-wise than gameplay-wise...?
10:45<Uatec>but it still slows down a bit
10:45<Ailure>like dark-grey
10:46<Ailure>or gold color
10:46<Uatec>simpler code-wise
10:46<peter1138>+rather
10:46<Ailure>only ones that look somewhat similar
10:46<Ailure>is blue and purple
10:46<Ailure>amd mauve
10:46<peter1138>DaleStan: i'd advocate changing it back but my pc probably wouldn't cope ;)
10:46<Ailure>and still look slightly diffrent
10:47<Ailure>Well I honestly didn't notice the speed diffrence until I started looking at the water
10:47<peter1138>and ttd isn't exactly 27ms, iirc
10:47<peter1138>the palette animation speed is something else
10:47<Ailure>ah
10:48<Ailure>would explain it then
10:48<Ailure>why palette cycling felt so much faster
10:48<Ailure>but everything else was only a minor diffrence
10:48<boekabart>how/who/when did the openttd project start actually, where did they get the code from?
10:49<Ailure>hmm
10:49<Ailure>2002-2003
10:50<boekabart>and who/how? or is that a secret we shouldn't know?
10:50<@Belugas>who = Ludde
10:50<DaleStan>boekabart: lumpio performed an ASM-to-C translation of disassembled TTD.
10:50<boekabart>no shit! really!?
10:50<DaleStan>But Belugas is right. ludde. Not lumpio.
10:50<Uatec>manually?
10:50<Ailure>Ludde is also the creator of uTorrent and uhm
10:51<Ailure>scummVM I think
10:51<DaleStan>I believe it was manually.
10:51<boekabart>peter1138: it's HIS babies you should want :)
10:52<Uatec>that sounds like a bit of a mission
10:52<peter1138>nah it's his fault i'm wasting my time here
10:52<Uatec>i'm assuming that they tried and failed to get source out of chris sawyer
10:52<boekabart>people have babies with the person who's wasting their time ALL THE TIME.
10:53<Ailure>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludde
10:53<boekabart>but... disassmebling is illegal under the DMCA, right?
10:53<Ailure>the guy even have his own page on Wikipedia
10:53<boekabart>ah, swedish... of course, no DMCA :)
10:53<Ailure>well it's a grey area
10:53<Ailure>and yes heh
10:54<Ailure>the american goverment have gotten annoyed at us becuse of that even :)
10:54[~]Ailure is Swedish
10:54<boekabart>and worked on trac
10:54[~]Ailure have done quite some reverse engineering and even worked with machine code...
10:54<boekabart>Originally closed source, the conversion process from assembly language to C was performed single handedly by Ludvig Strigeus between mid-2002 and March 2004, with the help of Interactive Disassembler.
10:55<@Belugas>for the record, there is an attempt currently underway to communicate with Atari, in order to clarify our situation
10:55<@Belugas>not the first one been made, but i have hopes it would be the good one
10:55<Ailure>I gotten the "We don't really care" vibe from them
10:55<Uatec>"gotten" is not a word
10:55<Uatec>it's not even slang
10:56<Uatec>don't use it
10:56<Ailure>got
10:56<Ailure>I meant got
10:56<Uatec>sorry
10:56<Uatec>i'm a bit of a grammar nazi
10:56[~]Sacro haets gotten
10:56<Sacro>its a horrible word
10:56<Uatec>it is
10:56<@Belugas>well... if they reply "Don't care", it will still be better then absolutely no answer at all...
10:56<Ailure>I understand heh
10:56<Uatec>and Ailure, since you're swedish, you have an excuse to be less than perfect at ingles
10:57<Ailure>English have some weird grammar rules
10:57<Ailure>or rather
10:57<Ailure>it's not the rules that get people
10:57<Ailure>it's the expections
10:57<@Belugas>and the question of original data has been raised too. It would help both ttdpatch and openttd community
10:57<boekabart>dude, english is the weirdest language around
10:57<Uatec>the rules all make perfect sense
10:57<Uatec>what weird rules are there?
10:58<Ailure>heh good point
10:58<boekabart>not many. Try to make pronounciation rules for English.... harder than making signals on bridges, i can assure you.
10:58<Ailure>althouh unlikely to happen
10:58<boekabart>read 'Made in America' by Bill Bryson, it's excellent.
10:58<Ailure>I wish more gaming companies and publishers are like ID
10:59<Ailure>and release the full source code whenever X engine is outdated
10:59<Uatec>Freespace 2
10:59<Uatec>it's not as out dated as tt
10:59<Uatec>but it's OS
10:59<boekabart>Maybe atari wants to do a thing like BlueByte did with Settlers ][ : publish a functionally identical, but graphically improved game
11:00<Ailure>Like Locomotion
11:00<Ailure>;)
11:00<Uatec>boekabart, chris sawyer did locomotion
11:00<Uatec>which isn't as good :(
11:00<Ailure>It was hilarious though
11:00<boekabart>it's not even similar
11:00<Ailure>I read a review about a game Sid Meir made
11:00<Uatec>which game?
11:00<Ailure>and the guy making the review confusind Sid Meir and Chris Sawyer
11:00<Ailure>and mentioned Locomotion as a disaster
11:01<Ailure>the recent train game Sid Meir made
11:01<boekabart>ah actually locomotion is, which is the other one, RRT3?
11:01<Ailure>Rollerroller tycoon?
11:01<boekabart>anyway: locomotion is NOT graphically improved. at least not to 2006 standards
11:01<Ailure>locomotion have ugly graphics
11:02<boekabart>/s/have/has
11:02<Ailure>I hadn't even touched the game
11:02<Ailure>but the screenshots make me cringe
11:02<boekabart>i did, for about 2 evenings max
11:02<Ailure>the 8bit sprites looks so much more lovely
11:02<boekabart>they practically are 8 bit sprites
11:02<boekabart>re ID: They DID release doom, quake source code, but NEVER the data files, right?
11:02<Ailure>yes
11:02<Ailure>and ID still sells Doom though
11:03<Ailure>You can buy from their online store last I checked
11:03<peter1138>hmm?
11:03<Ailure>While with TTD, only way buying the game legally is through second hand.
11:03<peter1138>locomotion is 8 bpp, yes
11:03<Ailure>Do each object have a invidual palette?
11:03<boekabart>legally throught second hand?
11:03<peter1138>no
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11:03<Ailure>ah
11:04<Ailure>hmm
11:04<peter1138>it's a very brown palette, heh
11:04<boekabart>i don't think game resale is actually legal
11:04<Ailure>That was the case for The sims
11:04<Ailure>It is
11:04<Ailure>At least in my country
11:04<boekabart>in sweden downloading is legal ;)
11:04|-|Desolator [Desolator@86.122.148.182] has joined #openttd
11:04<Ailure>I think the consumer agency even interwinded once
11:04<Ailure>when a game publisher whined
11:04<peter1138>intervened
11:04<Desolator>hello
11:05<Ailure>The sims 1 had a rather fun way of doing palettes
11:05[~]boekabart is checking the actual traffic situation
11:05<Ailure>sprites are 8bit and have invidual palettes
11:05<Ailure>But the game as whole runs 16bit and appears that way too
11:05<boekabart>that's weird
11:05<Desolator>I still have trouble changing the maximum loan, if I change it on the settings_gui, then I can't chnage it in game (or it goes back to 1 mil)
11:05<Ailure>indeed
11:06<Ailure>though they got away with it
11:06<Ailure>as you rarely need more than 256 colours on a single tile
11:07<boekabart>sounds like commodore 64... max so many colors per line
11:07<Ailure>with tile, I mean isometric tile
11:07<Ailure>not like tiles on a old console ;)
11:07<boekabart>they were called sprites
11:08<Ailure>well heh
11:08<boekabart>they were awesome to code for, mid-screen palette changes and such
11:08<Ailure>I done that
11:08<Ailure>on a NES
11:08<peter1138>did
11:08<Desolator>any1 can help me?
11:09<Ailure>You can even change graphics memory on line
11:09<Ailure>which was used in SMB3 for the status bar
11:09<boekabart>you could actually do that on CGA too, switch between the 'white' and 'yellow' palettes during the trace
11:09<Ailure>So the status bar tiles wouldn't take up any valuable space for the 'level' tiles
11:10<Ailure>if you look closely between the status bar and level itself
11:10<Ailure>you can see slight flickering
11:10<boekabart>i see slight flickering now anyway, time to go home. later!
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11:11<Ailure>hmm
11:11<Ailure>MMC3 is the name of that mapper oh yes
11:11<Ailure>I should play with it a bit
11:15|-|mode/#openttd [-o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
11:15<Ailure>http://194.47.44.201/60.png :)
11:15<Ailure>I screw around way too much with old games.
11:15|-|Desolator changed nick to Guest3
11:15<Guest3>damn!
11:16<Ailure>I figure the services are up again
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11:17<PlayMeNow>great....
11:17<Ailure>give it some time
11:17<Ailure>it let you rename to desolate after some time
11:17<Ailure>*desolator
11:17<PlayMeNow>well i "/chanserv identify" isn't a command anymore so I knida lost my channels, I don't get opped
11:18<PlayMeNow>*the
11:18<Ailure>dunno
11:18<Ailure>doing /ns identify
11:18<Ailure>worked fine for me
11:18|-|RobertGrammig [~Unke@134.2.187.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:18<PlayMeNow>ns = nickserv
11:18<PlayMeNow>i mean CHANserv, cs
11:18<Ailure>You shouldn't have to identify through chanserv
11:18<Ailure>although chanches are that they hadn't gotten it up yet
11:19<PlayMeNow>well before I could
11:19|-|mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by Belugas
11:20|-|PlayMeNow changed nick to Desoaltor
11:20<Desoaltor>oops
11:20|-|Desoaltor changed nick to Desolator
11:20<glx>Desoaltor: autoop is not reactivated yet
11:20<Ailure>Desoaltor
11:20<Ailure>sounds like something out of the japanse edition of RA2
11:20<glx>Desolator: you you ask master of the channel to enable it
11:20<Desolator>Desolator --> Iraq special unit in RA2 & YR
11:21<Ailure>I know heh
11:21<Desolator>I AM the master of #ir & #Transcendence
11:21<Ailure>Best anti-infantry unit in the game pretty much
11:21<Desolator>The Desolator spreads radiatino, which does NOT hurt air units
11:21<Desolator>*radiation
11:21|-|mode/#openttd [-o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
11:21<Ailure>yeah that's pretty strange now I think on it
11:21<Desolator>YES! services are up
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11:22<Ailure>with it being ground only
11:22<glx>Desolator: http://www.oftc.net/oftc/FAQ/Services#autoop
11:22<Desolator>it's not, it kills units VERY fast
11:22<Ailure>I mean, it's understandable for balancing reasons true
11:23<Ailure>but heh :)
11:23<Desolator>autoop is enabled but i'm still not opped
11:23<Ailure>then RA2 didn't exactly strife for realism
11:23<Ailure>It's the least serious game out of the CnC series after all
11:23<Ailure>Pretty fun becues of that too
11:23<Desolator>really?
11:23<Ailure>Well, compared to the orgimal red alert at least
11:23<Desolator>RA1 spolied the C&C series
11:24<Ailure>though they are all a bit campy
11:24<Desolator>*spoiled
11:24<Ailure>RA1 is my favorite
11:24<Desolator>GDI were the good guys and nod the bad ones
11:24<Desolator>GDI use power, nod stealth
11:24<Desolator>in RA it's upside down
11:24<Desolator>soviets use power and are bad, alies use stealh and are good
11:25<Ailure>Mammoth tanks was a Soviet technology in RA1
11:25<Ailure>while in orginal CnC it was GDI technology
11:25<Desolator>I know
11:25<Desolator>it's upside down
11:25<Ailure>RA1 is like 30 years before first CnC anyway
11:25<Ailure>40 years even
11:25<Desolator>C&C is in future, RA is in past
11:25|-|mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by Belugas
11:26<Ailure>First CnC is actually suppsosed to be in the 90's
11:26<Ailure>The other games points that out
11:26<Desolator>well, never seen first, but the tiberian series is in future
11:26<Desolator>and Tiberian Sun was the last real C&C
11:27<Desolator>RA1 & Generals deserve no C&C status
11:27<Ailure>Well
11:27<Ailure>The first game had tiberium
11:27<Desolator>in RA1 it's gold & gems + oil
11:27<Ailure>oil didn't exist with RA1 though
11:27<Ailure>that was a concept introdced RA2
11:27<Desolator>it's in RA2 thoguh...whatever
11:27<Ailure>there were oil derricks, but they were purely decorational
11:27<Ailure>(yes I mispelled that)
11:28<Desolator>thoguh Yuri's Revenge is a good expansion
11:28<Ailure>The latest game is pretty good though
11:28<Ailure>and I had my doubts at first
11:28<Desolator>Yuri is best if used correctly
11:28<Ailure>seeing how Westwood had no involvment
11:28<Ailure>then technicall, RA2 was mainly devoloped by EA too
11:28<Desolator>yeah
11:29<Ailure>Westwood had rather minor involvment
11:29<Desolator>I kinda liked Tiberian Sun: Firestorm
11:29<Desolator>westwood did a good job
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11:29<Ailure>Firestorm is the only one in the series
11:29<Ailure>I hadn't played
11:30<Ailure>Well, expect for Generals
11:30<Ailure>Generals didn't seem too impressing
11:30<Ailure>so I didn't buy them
11:30<Desolator>gfenerals in an exapansion of RA2 with 3D
11:30<Desolator>AFAIK it has OGL as def setting, so I couldn't run it here
11:30<Desolator>(OGL = OpenGL)
11:31<Ailure>Actually it's not related to Red alert or CnC
11:31<Ailure>it tries to be somewhat more realistic by tying to real world nations instead of fictional factions
11:31<Ailure>ok, technicall the Allied and Soviet is real, but still.
11:31<Desolator>ye
11:32<Ailure>It's like Chris Sawyer would call Rollercoaster tycoon
11:32<Ailure>"Transport Tycoon 2: Rollercoaster tycoon"
11:32<Desolator>yeah
11:32<Ailure>at least they didn't do that with the middle earth games or something
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11:33<Ailure>which is based on the same engine
11:33<Ailure>woudl been pretty funny with "Command and Conquer: Battle for middle earth"
11:33<Ailure>I never bought it, but it's based on the Generals engine
11:33<Desolator>never heard of it
11:33<Ailure>or the SAGE engine as it's called
11:33<Ailure>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAGE_engine
11:34<Desolator>SAGE sonuds more familiar
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11:36<Ailure>CnC3 is fun though
11:36<Ailure>and I had heavy doubts
11:37<Desolator>well back to ottd, does any1 where I can find the hardcoded $1kk initial loan limit (kk = million)?
11:37<Ailure>the limit is a million?
11:37<Desolator>initial
11:37<Ailure>A friend of mine managed much higher than that
11:37<Ailure>by changing the config fil however
11:38<Ailure>and I assume you're using USD
11:38<Desolator>you can start with more than 1 million bucks
11:38<Ailure>the ingame limit is 500K pounds
11:38<Desolator>$ = USD
11:38<Ailure>yeah I thought so
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11:38<Desolator>$ = 0.5 Pounds
11:38<Ailure>the game uses pounds internally though
11:38<Ailure>and what most people use too :)
11:38<Desolator>whatever, I guess the developers know that 1 buck = half a pound
11:38<Ailure>yeah
11:39<Ailure>I know some of the ratios tyop of my head
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11:39<Ailure>It's possible to go over that limit
11:39<Ailure>by manually editing the config file
11:39<Ailure>you can also give 0% intrest rate too :)
11:39<Desolator>I want to start with 5 mil
11:39<Ailure>so you won't have to pay rent on the loan
11:39<Desolator>and make a patch
11:40<Desolator>because 1 mil isn't enoguh to make realistic track set-ups on long distance
11:42<Ailure>well heh
11:42<Ailure>I manage setting up decent train lines even with the modified buildings cost GRF
11:42<Ailure>wwith just 500K
11:42<Ailure>I just avoid overly terraforming
11:43<Desolator>I want long and realistic lines mostly, but I can make decent stuff with 300k ewasely
11:43<Desolator>*easely
11:43<Ailure>heh I like struggling with money personally
11:43<Ailure>but I see your point
11:43<Ailure>You would get a much faster start after all
11:43<Ailure>and a huge network earlier on
11:44<Desolator>yes I want to simulate RL, right now there are a lto of rails built years and years ago
11:44|-|Wolf01 [~wolf01@host44-173-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
11:44<Desolator>*lot
11:44<Wolf01>hello
11:44<Desolator>hi
11:45<Ailure>well heh
11:45<Ailure>I just want to see more factors in the game
11:45<Ailure>that would prevent a company making more profit than all their vehicles are worth for a year
11:56<Desolator>i'm changing the Romanian currency
11:56<Desolator>to RON
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11:58<Wolf01>i want to see these "airplanes" in ottd, maybe coded as ships: http://thrillingwonder.blogspot.com/2007/05/ekranoplans-showcase.html :O
11:59<Desolator>make then yourself
11:59<Wolf01>i'm good at drawing as i'm good to go outside home to find girls
12:00<Desolator>which means?
12:00<Wolf01>i don't have a girl
12:00<Wolf01>i can't draw
12:01<Desolator>to find a girl ~= (!=) to get a girl
12:01<Desolator>you can see girls walking on the streer
12:01<Desolator>*street
12:09<Desolator>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/774 changed Romanian currency
12:11[~]Desolator goes to play openttd
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12:13<Ailure>It could be like Euro, changing after X year.
12:14<Ailure>heh and planes landing on water would have to be implented first. They were working on something like that for TTDpatch I heard.
12:14<Ailure>Working and working, it might just been in the idea stage
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12:16<Ailure>ah
12:16<Ailure>they're more like hovercrafts than aircraft though
12:16<Ailure>intrwesting
12:16<Ailure>they do fly over water, but just not much
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12:31<peter1138>hovercraft!
12:33<Phazorx>planes langing on water?
12:34<Phazorx>sounds like H-4 Hughe's spruce goose might come handy then
12:35<Thomas[NL]>hmm little annoying bug: If you edit a save game, if a town builds a road over a railway that piece of rail will become owned by the city. And you can't delete it ingame or in the scn-editor even with the magix bulldozer :(
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12:39<glx>you shouldn't edit a save game
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13:24<Digitalfox>Anyone knows a good remote desktop software besides ultravnc for windows?
13:26<peter1138>windows' built in remote desktop stuff
13:26<Digitalfox>No.. I need one that i can see in real time my server screen in my desktop, and doesn't close the session on server
13:27<Digitalfox>It's for controlling aplications in server that are running
13:27|-|Osai^zZz [~Osai@pd9eb70d2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:28<@Belugas>that's how i connect to my computer@work during the evening, remote desktop
13:28<Digitalfox>With ultravnc you can connect to my server and if you go to the server monitor you can actualy see the mouse and aplications openning and moving while in remote desktop
13:28<@Belugas>ho...
13:28<@Belugas>PCAnywhere?
13:28<Digitalfox>I may be wrong but windows remote desktop needs a session opened or closed gfor this to work
13:29<peter1138>yes
13:29<peter1138>otherwises, it's cool
13:29<Digitalfox>ok belugas :) Going to try that one
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13:33<Digitalfox>By the way my problem with Ultravnc is just that my server uses resolution 1280*1024 and my my notebook 1280*800, so i can't get ultravnc to resize and show in full screen without the need on going screen down and screen up
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13:34<peter1138>heh
13:35<@Belugas>same problem will arize with every solution,
13:35<@Belugas>unless yo want to have crappy screens
13:35<@Belugas>PPCharge tends to blurr things up in that circumstance
13:36|-|Osai^zZz changed nick to Osai
13:36<@Belugas>presonnaly, if you arlready have a solution but just dislike the screen resize,
13:36<Digitalfox>So what's the best solution downgrade resolution in server to 1024*768?
13:36<@Belugas>i would say live with it, since there is no real solutions
13:36<@Belugas>or upgrade yours :)
13:37<boekabart>I also use remote desktop built-in XP
13:37<@Belugas>but yes, i think downgrading server would be better
13:37<@Belugas>after all... it's a server,
13:37<@Belugas>not a client machine
13:37<boekabart>it doesn't need to be logged on or off, it logs on (if not yet) on connect
13:37<@Belugas>true boekabart :)
13:37<@Belugas>same here
13:38<boekabart>on the pc itself, the session will look 'locked', as if you press win+L
13:38<boekabart>and the desktop will take the size you specify in the client
13:39<peter1138>ooof, patch that increases EngineInfo from 24 to 164 bytes :(
13:40<peter1138>by moving _engine_custom_sprites & _engine_grf into it
13:40<peter1138>hmm
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13:40<peter1138>41KB instead of 6KB :/
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13:50<Wolf01>boekabart! screeeeeeens!
13:51<peter1138>Wolf01: join the queue
13:51<Wolf01>:)
13:54<Ailure>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9rotrain
13:54<Ailure>heh
13:55<Ailure>there's something charming with oddball inventions
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14:01<Sacro>3 sets from Quinne: [LINK REMOVED] (8,83MB) Smile
14:01<Sacro>edit by patchman: No nudity allowed.
14:01<Sacro>nyoro~n :(
14:03<Sacro>eek, this aint #tycoon
14:03<guru3>Nope.
14:03<Wolf01>http://farm1.static.flickr.com/149/354622931_dd6ff7ca8f.jpg <- aerotrain
14:04<guru3>It looks so retro. ><
14:04<Wolf01>1960s
14:05<guru3>Read the wikipedia entry. Looked futuristic back then, but now, damn.
14:05<Wolf01>i like more this: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/354622924_fe4acc9d62.jpg
14:06<guru3>Yeah... Although that does just look like a train with a pair of jet turbines stuck on top for some unknown reason...
14:07<Wolf01>they are really turbines
14:07<guru3>Please tell me it's not jet powered.
14:07<Wolf01>http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/1999/2/1999_2_63.shtml
14:07<Wolf01>yes, it is jet powered
14:08|-|scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has joined #openttd
14:08<Wolf01>other pictures: http://thrillingwonder.blogspot.com/2007/01/jet-powered-other-futuristic-trains.html
14:09<guru3>"They were given 45 days and a blank check to put the program together."
14:09|-|dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-249-096.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
14:09<guru3>You don't see projects like that these days.
14:09<dihedral>question :-)
14:10<dihedral>say i have char msg[MAX_TEXT_MSG_LEN]
14:10<dihedral>from DEF_SERVER_RECEIVE_COMMAND(PACKET_CLIENT_CHAT)
14:10<dihedral>and i wanted to only print msg as of msg[4]
14:10<Wolf01>these days we have too much to loose, so we don't spend our time on such projects
14:10<dihedral>how would i go about doing that?
14:10<Rubidium>dihedral: as in do not print the first 4 characters?
14:11<dihedral>yes
14:11<Rubidium>printf("%s", msg + 4) or printf("%s", &msg[4])
14:11<dihedral>sweet
14:12<dihedral>thank you
14:12<dihedral>btw Rubidium: what do you think of http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/smooth_economy_sz_v2-8_r9758_0-0.patch
14:12<Rubidium>I'm not really into that/the part of economy
14:12<Rubidium>but, lets see
14:12<dihedral>:-)
14:13<dihedral>you are a star - you know that?
14:13<Desolator>i'm back from my gane
14:13<Rubidium>a pretty dead star as I'm having a cold right now ;)
14:14<Desolator>doesn't matter
14:14<Rubidium>but that patch doesn't only affect the economy, it also changes whether some industries may be built in some cases
14:14<dihedral>yes...
14:14<dihedral>true
14:14<dihedral>but focusing on the economy part
14:15<dihedral>industries producing 1-4 would have a better chance of increasing
14:16<Rubidium>i->type == IT_BANK_TEMP <- this type of assumptions is going to break as soon as newindustries get in, so better not add them because we already know that newindustries is going to have trouble with them
14:16<dihedral>ok
14:20<dihedral>other than that?
14:21<Rubidium>well, it's a kind of magic to me right now
14:21<dihedral>oh
14:21<dihedral>this is a little outdated but might help http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/sz_ind_patch_comments_v2-0.txt
14:22<Rubidium>any reasons why CHANCE_B isn't halved when CHANCE_A is?
14:22<peter1138>why do we need another smooth economy?
14:23<dihedral>because industries producing 1-4 dont have a chance of increasing
14:23<peter1138>and this fixes that specific case?
14:23<peter1138>and nothing else?
14:24<Rubidium>peter1138: it does way more than that
14:24<dihedral>well - could have it redone to only fix that specific case :-)
14:24<Rubidium>(RandomRange((old_prod >> 2) + 1) - (old_prod >> 3) + (old_prod >> 4) + (old_prod >> 5) + (old_prod >> 6) + (old_prod >> 7)); ???
14:24<peter1138>iirc, the main reason for the smooth economy patch was because the existing one was broeken for a long time
14:24<@Belugas>- if (_opt.landscape != LT_ARCTIC && _opt.landscape != LT_TROPIC) {
14:24<@Belugas>+ if (_opt.landscape != LT_ARCTIC) {
14:24<peter1138>which got fixed
14:24<@Belugas>why removal of torpic?
14:24<@Belugas>tropic
14:25<@Belugas>+ if (tile != INVALID_TILE && GetTropicZone(tile) != TROPICZONE_DESERT) PlantFarmField(tile, i->index);
14:25<@Belugas>same here
14:26<@Belugas>+ if (i->type == IT_OIL_RIG && j == 1) new_prod = clamp(new_prod, 0, 16);
14:26<@Belugas>+ if (i->type == IT_BANK_TEMP && _opt.landscape == LT_TEMPERATE) new_prod = clamp(new_prod, 0, 64);
14:26<dihedral>most is explained in http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/sz_ind_patch_comments_v2-0.txt
14:26<@Belugas>don't like that AT ALL!!!!
14:27<@Belugas>- INDUSTRYLIFE_NOT_CLOSABLE, 1 << LT_TEMPERATE,
14:27<@Belugas>+ INDUSTRYLIFE_PRODUCTION, 1 << LT_TEMPERATE,
14:27<@Belugas>nor thius
14:27<@Belugas>this
14:27<dihedral>ok - lets forget all the 'junk' around it
14:27<peter1138>one change, one patch, please ;)
14:27<dihedral>and just look at the increase and decrease of production rates
14:28<@Belugas>indeed
14:28<dihedral>peter1138: deal
14:28<@Belugas>the real thing
14:28<Rubidium>the problem is, we don't know what's "junk" and what isn't junk...
14:28<dihedral>lol
14:28<dihedral>yeah
14:28<peter1138>see, with newgrf changes, i know what's what ;)
14:28<peter1138>hence i can split up mart3p's patches...
14:28<peter1138>otoh, hertogjiananaijan persists in making the huge acceleration patch :/
14:29<peter1138>not only that, my big toe still hurts
14:29<dihedral>i shall get it reworked
14:29<dihedral>so only the in and decrease is included :-)
14:30[~]dihedral gets back to work
14:30[~]dihedral peeks his head around the corner
14:31<dihedral>thanks for the feedback :)
14:31[~]dihedral disappears again
14:31<peter1138>heh
14:31<peter1138>hf
14:31<boekabart>Wolf01: what was the scrreeeeeeeeeens scream about?
14:31<Wolf01>multi level water
14:32<peter1138>boekabart: have you calculate the number of sprites we'd need?
14:36<boekabart>no, it depends on the approach
14:36<boekabart>atm, i think quays may the most feasable approach
14:36<boekabart>but wouldn't it be smarter to get the deep sea into trunk first, it's a lot less complex, needs no extra sprites...
14:37<boekabart>(without the rivers that is, with rivers we need the slope sprites for all SLOPEs)
14:37<Wolf01>boekabart, what do you think about my suggestion of yesterday? (the go straight until obstacle one)
14:37<boekabart>Wolf01: i posted some screens to http://picasaweb.google.com/boekabart
14:37<boekabart>Wolf01: look at that site :)
14:39|-||Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5E03DCF.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
14:40<Wolf01>great! seem a real water :O
14:41<peter1138>boekabart: well, do deep sea then
14:46<peter1138>Wolf01: wtf
14:46<peter1138>that's mad
14:46<peter1138>ekranoplans...
14:46<Wolf01>why not?
14:46<peter1138>did i say not?
14:47<dihedral>peter1138: just saw the log entry for REV:9771
14:47<dihedral>thanks :-)
14:49<Wolf01>boekabart, can i try the latest patch? (if is that in the forums, i have to apply both diffs of the first post?)
14:49<boekabart>wait
14:49<boekabart>it's not in the forums, it's another patch
14:50<boekabart>see logs of today around 11am CET
14:50<boekabart>!log
14:50<boekabart>!logs
14:50<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
14:50<boekabart>i posted a link to a rar with pix + patch
14:50<boekabart>Note that it is NOT the deep water patch from the forum, it's an experiment for real water flow ('real')
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14:52<boekabart>peter1138: the forum deep sea patch is still 'the one' I think; we only should remove the ctrl-click is 'water source' instead of 'canal'.
14:52<Wolf01>is this one? http://boekabart.googlepages.com/TTD-Demo-Musicfiles.rar
14:52<boekabart>no, a lot earlier
14:53<boekabart>starts with the same server though
14:53<boekabart>sorry, don't have that site index close at hand here
14:54<boekabart>peter1138: i'll update the deep sea patch to latest rev so we can review the coding style, ok?
14:54<peter1138>ok
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14:55<Wolf01>http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd/search/1@boekabart the only 2 urls typed by you i can find are the music one and the picasa album
14:55<boekabart>strange. juist before the picasa album, maybe 10 minutes
14:58<Wolf01>ok, found
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15:17<Wolf01>really good, i like that the water dry if the flow is blocked
15:19<Wolf01>some times i get a sprite < _sprite_cache assert
15:19<Wolf01>*_spritecache_items
15:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9816 /branches/noai/ (110 files in 11 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync with trunk r9712:9815 except r9759 (MorphOS threading) because that needs special attention.
15:25<peter1138>yes, it's not finished ;)
15:25<peter1138>omg colour
15:27<Wolf01>:O
15:36<Phazorx>is hmm... noai is just no ai ?
15:36<Phazorx>less cpu power wasted?
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15:37<RobertGrammig>hey just read the visual c++ guide for openttd.... guess something similar for borland builder doesnt exist?
15:38<Rubidium>RobertGrammig: I haven't seen such a guide for Borland nor hear of anybody using it
15:38<RobertGrammig>i am quite new to c++... you think msvc is generally better?
15:39<Rubidium>I haven't used either MSVC nor Borland for developing, so I can't say
15:39<RobertGrammig>what do you use?
15:40<Rubidium>a text editor with syntax highlighting + gcc + gdb
15:40<Rubidium>(on linux)
15:41<RobertGrammig>ok... I am looking more for sthg beginner friendly on w32 ;)
15:41<kaan>its been many years since i last used anything from Borland, but their products is great and if you succed in compiling on borland please wtrite a wiki entry
15:41<kaan>*write
15:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9817 /trunk/src/ai/default/default.cpp: -Fix [FS#772]: an assertion that was triggered by the AI building when its rating for the town was not high enough.
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16:31<Wolf01>peter1138 http://maps.google.it/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.881644,47.657452&spn=0.002638,0.005665&t=k&z=18&om=1 :O it is biiiig
16:32<peter1138>...
16:32<peter1138>it... exists...
16:36<Wolf01>on the right there is another one, and some huge hovercrafts
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16:42|-|mode/#openttd [-o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
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16:43<Phazorx>if that's what i think - it never actualy flew
16:44<Phazorx>but the bigger version of that did, bit requires some pretty calm conditions
16:44<Wolf01>http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/4782/wold2tg1.png
16:44<Phazorx>that si something else
16:44<Wolf01>a friend of mine drew it
16:45<Phazorx>looks like be-200
16:46<Phazorx>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_Be-2500 to bad it enver left drawing boards
16:48<dihedral>good night guys
16:49[~]dihedral gives everybody a good-night-hug
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16:50<Wolf01>the preview is the Orlyonok: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/218/483260283_2cc1f3cd02.jpg
16:54<Eddi|zuHause3>urgs, colours!
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17:14<Wolf01>'night
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17:27<kaan>night all
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17:36<Zuu>Is there a reson for not flushing stdout when OpenTTD is running as Dedicated server?
17:37<Zuu>By changeing that it is much esier to pharse the output from an external program.
17:37<Zuu>I have a ready patch for than if desired.
17:38<Zuu>than => that
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17:40<Eddi|zuHause3>what does "flush stdout" mean?
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18:02<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause3: just form the name - sync buffered IO to console
18:03<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't understand that...
18:03<Eddi|zuHause3>what is the problem and what is the desired behaviour?
18:04<Phazorx>i have no idea what are you talking about to be honst :)
18:04<Phazorx>lemme scroll up
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18:05<Phazorx>i guess console output is buffered somwhere
18:05<Phazorx>like till some tick or some other time based delay
18:05<Phazorx>and that slows down anything that is based on consoel output
18:05<Phazorx>such as debugging routines or autopilot
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18:06<Phazorx>would be nice is output would be unbuffered for some cases
18:07<Phazorx>bear in mind i'm talking based on general concepts rather than familiarity with ottd code
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18:11<Zuu>Eddi|zuHause3: If output is not flushed it will be buffered somewhere and will not reach the Autopilot-program untill openttd exits.
18:12<Zuu>Somehow it reaches your shell still if you plainly run ./openttd -D. So with some special magic it should be possible too make an autopilot without making OpenTTD call fflush, which is how Brianetta have done I think.
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19:17<xweb>hi!
19:17<Digitalfox>hi
19:17<xweb>Wow a human!
19:18<xweb>so hows it going.
19:20<xweb>maybe i spoke too soon.
19:21<xweb>Digitalfox ; organic or in organic life form?
19:21<Digitalfox>lol
19:22<Digitalfox>What's up?
19:23<Digitalfox>Most of people in IRC are European and has so most are sleeping :)
19:23<Digitalfox>Right now it's 1:23 AM in Portugal
19:23<xweb>i c
19:23<xweb>i usualy get on late at night(in the usa).
19:24<Digitalfox>It's 8:22 PM there so dinner time here is sleep time, lol
19:25<Digitalfox>But i bet thers
19:25<xweb>8:24pm EDS
19:25<Digitalfox>*there are more people here in channel who are awaken
19:25<xweb>that Eastern Daylight Saving time
19:25<Digitalfox>:)
19:26<Digitalfox>You came here a lot?
19:26<xweb>you play ottd
19:26<Digitalfox>yes a lot
19:26<xweb>online?
19:26<Digitalfox>not really, most single play
19:27<Digitalfox>but openttd works great in multi player games
19:27<Digitalfox>Are you a new player or have some experience with openttd?
19:28<xweb>i'm just a beginer. I would like to contribute to the project. the new GFX needs a site to upload sets to and I have one. been following a forum thread about this.
19:29<Digitalfox>you know the wiki and site of openttd?
19:31<xweb>I would love to see the grafics updated. I am aware of the wiki but if you look at this thread I belive a site like what planed here will help organize and move forward the process. http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=27416
19:35<xweb>I don't want to upset any one but i am a little fustrated with the lack of progress and have writen most of the code needed to complete this project in about 3 days. I also have my own web space I would be willing to set up the site as a testing ground ( if not a permanant location ) for such a site.
19:42<Digitalfox>You saw this one http://opengraphics.zernebok.net/ ??
19:43<Digitalfox>You should talk with TrueBrain " Truelight" and egladil
20:00<xweb>this sites been in development for 7 months . this is where the futration comes in. IMHO it should be at least functional for test at this point.
20:02<Digitalfox>yeah, it does need a push :)
20:06<xweb>i've got all but the upload code and display pages writen in ruby on rails. I do know php and would be fine with contributing code but then this project need to be officeial. I was thinking of posting my thoughts on the forum and my code if need be. but i'm still waiting for a progress report from mexicoshant(see forum.).
20:19<xweb>gotta go cya.
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20:25<sionide>hmm
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22:34<orudge>Hmm, I'm a retired developer? :o
22:35<orudge>I guess I haven't contributed much recently
22:35<orudge>but I'm not retired, per se :p
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---Logclosed Thu May 10 00:00:40 2007