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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-05-13

---Logopened Sun May 13 00:00:21 2007
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01:49<DaleStan>Website ops: (TrueBrain?) nightlies.php still tries to link to http://svn.openttd.org/<...>, but that was taken down a long time ago.
02:33|-|Wolf01 [~wolf01@host44-173-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
02:33<Wolf01>hello
02:37<@peter1138>"Is there any way the Copy & Paste patch could be implemented as a newGRF?"
02:37<@peter1138>hmm
02:41<Ailure>sounds like a typical question one of my classmates would make.
02:42<Wolf01>but would be cool :D
02:44<Wolf01>but the oddest thing i've seen is the "no exe in the nightlies"...
02:44<Wolf01>i hope he didn't clicked on the first package he found...
02:44<Ailure>I think he did
02:45<Ailure>I mean hell
02:45<Ailure>same classmate
02:45<Ailure>and tortoiseSVN
02:45<Ailure>it dosen' twork
02:45<Ailure>*checks*
02:45<Ailure>...he had downloaded the source package.
02:45<Ailure>We gone through a few programming courses by now so ngghh
02:45<Ailure>he probably quits soon xD
02:45<Ailure>dropping out
02:49<Ailure>people say that there's no stupid questions but... he manages to prove that wrong. :<
02:51<Wolf01>http://www.tt-forums.net//files/fast_3_way_225.jpg what does change between the two junctions? (something else than 2 tiles raised)
02:52<Wolf01>A:"poor signalling", B:"the best"... they are the same
02:55<Ailure>I belive A would cause slowdown though
02:56<Ailure>at least for the railway just below the sign
02:56<Ailure>hmm then
02:59<hylje>upper has a slow curve
02:59<hylje>a diagonal rail going up or down a hill is slow
02:59<Ailure>yeah that's what I thought on
03:00<hylje>fo sho
03:00<Ailure>The game dosen't like
03:00<Ailure>when the trains 'bends' in all possible ways
03:00<Ailure>or rather
03:00<Ailure>the acceleration model dosen't
03:00<hylje>several bends in the same window
03:00<hylje>from how it works it takesthat window from a % of the train length
03:01<Ailure>I noticed that train with really high HP
03:01<Ailure>such as Eurostar in the UKRS
03:02<Ailure>can do sharp turns but in a really weird way
03:02<hylje>_p
03:02<Ailure>the speed is constantly speeding up and down
03:02<hylje>:o
03:02<Ailure>looks rather funny
03:02<hylje>shinkansen railset trains can do 2tile turns too
03:02<hylje>its rather silly
03:02<Ailure>yeah
03:02<Ailure>it seems like high HP trains tend to break the sharp turn rule
03:03<Ailure>or at least temponarily
03:03<Ailure>they sitll get a slowdown, but not a heavy one
03:04<Ailure>I should play with it again
03:04<Ailure>dunno if there's been any change to the acceleration model
03:05<Ailure>there were some critism about it I heard
03:05<Ailure>well heh, it's a bit generous when it comes to acceleration
03:06<Ailure>I rarely find a use for some high HP trains unless I increase the freight multiplier
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03:06<hylje>well
03:06<hylje>long trains
03:06<Ailure>and even then, even heavy but not so powerful trains can at least reach 70-80 km/h with no problems unless you make it really extreme
03:07<hylje>make that FAST long trains
03:07<Ailure>heh
03:07<Ailure>thoose are fun to make
03:07<Ailure>10 tiles long trains
03:07<hylje>20 tile maglev
03:07<hylje>640km/h
03:07<Ailure>heh
03:07<Ailure>my limit goes at ten tiles
03:07<Ailure>mostly due to gamescale
03:08<Ailure>still hmm
03:09<Ailure>heh
03:09<Ailure>the default maglev uusally have no problems reaching max speed
03:09<Ailure>even with lots of heavy cargo
03:09<hylje>then they go up one(1) tile hill
03:10<Ailure>with what acceleration model?
03:10<Ailure>the old one is xD
03:10<Ailure>with slopes
03:10<Ailure>even the fastest trains went down to 30 km/h with even simple slopes
03:10<hylje>yes
03:11<Ailure>it was painful watching your 640 km/h maglev train
03:11<Ailure>climbing a mountain at 30 km/h
03:11<hylje>with large HP and improved accel
03:11<hylje>trains could climb massive cliffs just fine
03:11<hylje>at nearly full speed, no less.
03:13<Ailure>yeah
03:13<Ailure>I rarely see maglev trains slowing down climbing them
03:13<Ailure>I do see railway trains doing that if it's a really steep climb :p
03:13<Ailure>steep climb would be relativly and depend on the hp/weight of train
03:14<Ailure>http://194.47.44.201/openTTD/stairs.png
03:14<Ailure>I found myself doing this in some game XD
03:14<Ailure>although in a more discrete way
03:15<hylje>wtf, stair
03:15<hylje>s
03:15<Ailure>slope, flat land, slope, flat land
03:15<Ailure>with some really heavy trains you need even more flat land inbetween the slopes to maintain full speed
03:15<Ailure>or near full speed
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03:16<Ailure>and even then I try to keep terraforming ot a minium nowadays :p
03:16<Ailure>I was screwing around in that game, which is why I made a mountain in the middle of nowhere
03:16<Wolf01>when 1x2 slopes?
03:17<Ailure>heh
03:17<Ailure>sometimes I don't play with the slopes until after I built a line
03:18<Ailure>to avoid unecessary terraforming :p
03:18<@peter1138>hairpins :D
03:18<@peter1138>less terraforming
03:18<Wolf01>no i meant, now we have 45° slopes, we need 22.5° :D
03:18<@peter1138>they're distinctly not 4 degrees
03:18<@peter1138>or 45
03:18<Ailure>how many degress are the slopes though?
03:19<Ailure>It's kinda hard to tell from the isometric view
03:19<Ailure>45 degrees seems a bit much though
03:19<Wolf01>they should be 30
03:20<@peter1138>they're 1:2
03:20<Ailure>hmm
03:20<@peter1138>16 units along a tile and 8 units up
03:20<Ailure>yeah
03:20<@peter1138>dunno what that is in degrees ;p
03:20<Wolf01>ok, they are already 22.5
03:20<Ailure>half of 45
03:20<Wolf01>so we need 11.25
03:20<Ailure>...which is 22.5
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03:21<Ailure>as wolf pointed out
03:21<Ailure>heh
03:21<Wolf01>always too much for a train
03:21<@peter1138>is it simply helf?
03:21<Ailure>What else would it be?
03:21<hylje>are you implying we should Has a mesh-based terrain?
03:21<Wolf01>is mathematic...
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03:21<Wolf01>draw a line, 1:1 is 45°
03:21<@peter1138>yes, 1:1 is 45
03:22<Ailure>90 degree cliffs like seen in the Transport Tycoon 2 engine would be nice :p
03:22<Ailure>Well, I already seen 90 degree stuff in openTTD
03:22<hylje>oh yes
03:22<Ailure>:D
03:22<Ailure>halls of infinite mirrors glitching
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03:22<hylje>screenshot plz
03:22<@peter1138>you mean locomotion? :p
03:22<Ailure>that waterlevel patch
03:23<Ailure>water can be of a certain height
03:23<Ailure>anyway, whatever is below the water
03:23<Ailure>when something is flooding
03:23<Ailure>gives the halls of mirros effect
03:23<Ailure>of doom fame
03:23<Ailure>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_of_mirrors_effect
03:24<Ailure>[10:23] <peter1138> you mean locomotion? :p
03:24<Ailure>No, Transport Tycoon 2 ;)
03:24<Ailure>I was jokingly referring to all games using the engine
03:24<Ailure>from Rollercoaster tycoon
03:24<Ailure>which apparently orginally was going to be for a Transport Tycoon Sequel
03:25<hylje>oh, wow
03:26<@peter1138>deg = arctan(ratio)
03:26<Wolf01>i love that terrain engine... but i hate the game (lomo) because they should have learned from previous errors, and there are many glitches and bugs instead, like the odd transparency (half of the screen)
03:26<Ailure>Rollercoaster terrain
03:27<Ailure>made me wish it was in 3D actually
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03:27<Ailure>Digging a really deep hole could be a pain in the ass sometimes
03:27<hylje>:p
03:27<Wolf01>that's true
03:27<hylje>bottomless pits
03:27<Ailure>and sometimes it didn't matter whatever rotation you look from
03:27<Ailure>or whatever things you made transparents
03:27<Ailure>some things were hidden from your view if you made stuff cramped
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03:28<Ailure>I actually like 3D simulation games for their flexibility xD
03:28<@peter1138>so i'm right ;p
03:28<@peter1138>1:1 is 45 deg
03:28<@peter1138>1:2 is 26.5650512 deg
03:28<Wolf01>i still can't understand why they don't made the terraform tool like rollercoaster, where you had the possibility to raise cliffs when raising a single tile, like TTD
03:29<Ailure>It would made life easier yes
03:29<@peter1138>so you want 1:4 which is 14.0362435 degrees....
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03:29<Ailure>I got annoyed when I had to do manaul work on something that was easy to do in TTD
03:30<Wolf01>trains need 4 degrees (if i'm not wrong), with more you need racks to climb an hill
03:30<Ailure>that regarding 3D thread is intresting though
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03:30<hylje>peter1138! use foundations to allow silly cliffs!
03:30<Ailure>lots of misconceptions about 3D
03:30<Ailure>It's like
03:30<Ailure>3D in games is a curse
03:30<Ailure>it makes games confusing
03:30<@peter1138>needs "new map array" !
03:30<Ailure>and that itmakes gameplay worse?
03:31<Ailure>New map array
03:31<hylje>3d is harder to navigate in than plain 2d
03:31<Ailure>That's probably the holy grail of openTTD programming
03:31<Ailure>:p
03:31<@peter1138>ok, it needs more bits in the map array, heh
03:31<hylje>hence most RTS n other stuff is 2d
03:31<@peter1138>Ailure: it's a joke, now ;)
03:31<Ailure>harder to navigate? heh
03:31<hylje>well
03:31<hylje>dimensions+1
03:31<Wolf01>ten thousand of years you are talking of new map array, and we haven't seen something about it ;)
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03:32<Ailure>Most 3D games solve the navigation problems
03:32<Ailure>by hiding away the camera controls unless they are needed for some reason
03:32<Ailure>most 3D rts games does this
03:32<Ailure>but it's still possible to rotate around if you need to
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03:33<Ailure>The sims 2 is nice with it's camera
03:33<Ailure>it have a free flying mode that is fun to play with
03:34<hylje>and to be frank
03:34<hylje>most 3d implementations suck
03:34<@peter1138>Wolf01: we've got one... it's literally just another array ;p
03:34<Ailure>but some are good
03:34<Ailure>There's 2D games that sucks too
03:35<Ailure>As long you don't go 3D for the sake of going 3D it usually goes well
03:35<Wolf01>one of my friends told me that ttd sucks because is 2D
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03:35<Wolf01>i killed him
03:35<Ailure>haha
03:35<hylje>murderer
03:35<Ailure>Well some people got the idea that 3D game means that it automatically sucks
03:35<Ailure>and the other way around too :p
03:36<Ailure>Sometimes you can mix too
03:36<Ailure>Sometimes it's better to use 3D models than storing 234324234 sprites of a object in various rotations
03:37<Ailure>It dosen't have to be polygons, it can be voxels too. :)
03:37<hylje>usually 8 rotations are enough
03:37<Ailure>Pixel arts should like voxels ;P
03:37<Ailure>*artists
03:37<@peter1138>not really
03:37<hylje>voxels were used in tiberian sun
03:37<hylje>for a bunch of tanks
03:37<Ailure>yeah
03:38<Wolf01>what i like of 3D games, is that they allow (most of the times) to place buildings and other things in every direction, what i don't like of them is the same thing, because you can mess up the base by mistaking an angle, like in C&C generals/tiberium wars.. with 2D you were able to place buildings in every free tile, if sufficient space
03:38<@peter1138>they're don't give you the same level of detail as plain 2d pixel images...
03:38<@peter1138>and voxels are a bitch for 3d accelerators, heh
03:38<Ailure>well sadly
03:38<Ailure>3D acceleration technology
03:38<Ailure>dosen't exactly focus on Voxels
03:38<hylje>Wolf01: yes if the game doesnt enforce building on tiles
03:38<Ailure>Voxels are really neat
03:38<hylje>Wolf01: but if they do the situation is the same as with 2d
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03:39<Ailure>It's funny too
03:39<Ailure>someoen made a 3D model in that 3D thread
03:39<Ailure>but if it wasn't for the outlines of a box
03:39<Ailure>I could easily have confused it for a voxelmodel
03:40<hylje>:o
03:40<Wolf01>with 2D was really clear where you are allowed to build and where not, with 3D you should take count also of the degree of the terrain
03:40<hylje>Wolf01: usually in rtses buildings have foundations
03:40<hylje>Wolf01: allowing them to build in most terrain
03:40<Wolf01>not always, try to build 4 power plants in a slope...
03:41<Ailure>Simcity4 did that
03:41<Ailure>as long you don't try to build stuff on extreme slopes
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03:41<Ailure>it usally works
03:41<hylje>sc4 had silly foundations
03:41<Ailure>some special buildings have a tendancy to flat out stuff
03:41<Ailure>such as power plants
03:41<hylje>usually extreme slopes worked just fine
03:41<Desolator>hello
03:41<Wolf01>hi
03:41<Ailure>well heh
03:41<Ailure>foundations tend to look odd with extreme slopes
03:41<Ailure>I had small houses
03:41<Ailure>with really really tall foundations
03:41<hylje>yes
03:41<Ailure>in some screwy places
03:42<Ailure>but it usually looks fine
03:42<hylje>the passively built buildings did not terraform
03:42<Desolator>I'm thinking of making a new MiniIN
03:42<Wolf01>good luck
03:42<Ailure>TTD's foundations looks odd in some situations as well
03:42<hylje>but made foundations all over the place
03:43<Ailure>but heh
03:43<Ailure>with some extrene foundations
03:43<Ailure>it probably would be a bad idea to open the wrong door on some buildings
03:43<Ailure>:p
03:43<Ailure>hmm
03:44<Ailure>buildings do terraform slightly when they are built though
03:44<Ailure>but only if they can
03:44<Ailure>The extreme foundations usually happens in tight places now I think on it
03:45<Ailure>where there's not much space for terraformin, or where proper terraforming would change too much
03:48<Ailure>soon noon
03:48<Ailure>I hadn't slept over the night
03:48<Ailure>so I should do that soon lol
03:49<hylje>:o
03:49<hylje>i used to have my highways in ditches
03:50<hylje>and have buildings and park around them
03:50<Ailure>ah
03:51<Ailure>heh I should play Simcity4 again
03:51<Ailure>with Rush hour of course
03:51<Ailure>It's a good expansion pack xD
03:51<Ailure>but to be honest, it have features that should ben there from the beginning
03:51<Ailure>such as the traffic query tool that shows the paths people take in the city
03:52<Ailure>Simcity4 always had a advanced traffic algorithm, but you weren't always aware of what was going on expect for traffic congestion :/
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03:56<Wolf01>one feature that should been there from the beginning should be "show catchement areas" for existent stations
03:56<Wolf01>i'm working on it, with immense difficulty, but i have something working (thanks to frostregen)
03:57<Ailure>heh how station catchment work is kinda broken though
03:58<Ailure>but yeah, that would be useful
03:59<Wolf01>station catchement is a pain with non-uniform stations
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04:03<Ailure>and the broken station handling is more noticeable iwth non-unform stations too
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04:05<kaan>goodmorning
04:06<Wolf01>morning
04:07<Desolator>morning kaan
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04:12<Wolf01>when will newindustries be ready, it will allow also industries on slopes?
04:12|-|Tron_ changed nick to Tron
04:13<Rubidium>my calculations are summer 2008 ;) (yay for statistics)
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05:15<Desolator>what are the nightlies compiled with?
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05:17<Desolator>MinGW?
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05:18<@peter1138>gcc
05:18<Desolator>and MinGW doesn't use gcc?
05:25<Rubidium>mingw assumes that all nightlies are windows binaries and that the nightlies are compiled on Windows
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05:26<Rubidium>which both incorrect assumptions
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05:26<Rubidium>+are
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06:04<@peter1138>gah
06:04<@peter1138>stupid nvidia
06:06<@peter1138>resolution changing fucks up :/
06:08<@peter1138>works at 24 or 16 bit, but not 15 or 8
06:08<hylje>:o
06:08<Wolf01>15 O_O
06:08<hylje>5 bits per color
06:09<Wolf01>125 colors
06:09<Wolf01>is an odd resolution
06:10<boekabart>!? how did you come up with 125 colors/
06:10<boekabart>32 x 32 x 32 = eh, more.
06:10<Rubidium>5*5*5 I guess
06:11<Rubidium>2^15 = 32768...
06:11<boekabart>see, more :)
06:11<boekabart>actually usually they give one color (green i think) the extra bit. since the eye is most sensitive to green.
06:12<Wolf01>oh right... 2^15, not 5^3
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06:15<@peter1138>boekabart: that's 16 bpp
06:16<@peter1138>anyway, the weird thing is, converting from 8 to 16 bpp instead of 8 to 32 bpp is a lot quicker for me
06:16<@peter1138>shame X doesn't allow colour depth changing...
06:18<@peter1138>or just hardware 8->32bpp conversion
06:18<boekabart>half the memory bandwidth is the only diff, right
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06:18<@peter1138>it allows it for opengl textures...
06:18<@peter1138>boekabart: yeah, suppose that's right
06:19<mikk36>any of u watch MD House ?
06:20<Wolf01>i watched it
06:20<mikk36>up to which episode ?
06:20<Wolf01>all the first and second series
06:20<mikk36>ah great :)
06:20<mikk36>i just watched S02E24
06:21<mikk36>last episode of 2nd season
06:21<mikk36>that's one sick part :P
06:21<Wolf01>uhm, i don't remember it
06:21<mikk36>the one where 95% of the episode is a dream
06:21<mikk36>where house gets shot
06:21<Wolf01>oh yes
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06:22<Wolf01>then i watched also half of the third season
06:22<mikk36>at the end where he cut the tonque patient open... i was like... what the f***
06:22<mikk36>i have almost all episodes on my hdd
06:23<Wolf01>:)
06:23<mikk36>only 5-6 missing from the end
06:23<mikk36>been watching it for some weeks now
06:24<mikk36>and today is my last day as a free man again :P
06:24<mikk36>going back to work (got a new job)
06:25<Wolf01>i'm looking for a new job too
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07:12<mikk36>missing 4 episodes DL'ing :)
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07:46<xyz>hi
07:46<xyz>is there a server with "hard difficulty"?
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07:58<elmex>hm
07:59<elmex>the difficulties are no real difference either
07:59<elmex>only that it takes longer with hard to earn enough money
08:00<elmex>hm
08:00<elmex>lately there have been not many interesting games on the servers :-/
08:00<hylje>low loan
08:00<elmex>well, with low loan you just need longer
08:00<elmex>and with multiplayer that sucks because no fast-forward :)
08:01<hylje>with low loan you must get profitable with that £100k
08:01<elmex>hm, i'm used to see more network-structure games on the servers grmbl...
08:01<elmex>it's nto very hard to get profitable
08:02<elmex>the fchallenge with multiplayer is: be as profitable as others
08:02<hylje>but profitable enough
08:03<elmex>yes
08:03<elmex>it will make entrance into a game for people harder that join later
08:04<elmex>but that was always hard anyway
08:05<elmex>i mean, once you got a profitable route all you need it to wait for the money to come in and build a second train or route and after that you quickly paid your loan and start expanding further
08:06<elmex>hard difficulty would be interesting if the economy would work differntly. eg. second level industries have a upper limit of cargo they accept and such
08:06<elmex>difficulties that actually have influence on your gameplay
08:07<elmex>having servers where trains don't go 90degree or with "realisic" acceleration is already interesting as you hav to adapt your routes to that
08:08<elmex>but maybe i'm biased by my affection to large rail networks :)
08:09<elmex>and i think the server dialog should force you to enter a real nickname
08:09<elmex>other than Player
08:09<elmex>with no default :)
08:09<elmex>everytime someone named 'Player' joins i'm afraid that its someone who will messup the game
08:10<elmex>not because he's a newbie, but because i've seen lots of 'Player' people joining a unprotected company and messing up the landscape with leveling with all the money
08:10<elmex>or similiar stuff
08:11<elmex>that will of course not really change with a forced entry of the name ;-/
08:11<Ammler>hmm, does that depense on the nick? Icould join with nick "friend" and mess up the map
08:12<elmex>right
08:12<elmex>ignore that point :)
08:15<Thomas[NL]_>http://ttartist.freeforums.org/portal.php you guys knew of this site?
08:17<elmex>no
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08:18<elmex>it seems to be new
08:18<elmex>and forum isn't browsable or empty :)
08:19<@peter1138>dark on black...
08:19<@peter1138>ah, it's SAC :D
08:19<elmex>SAC?
08:22<Ammler>peter1138: Is there more, when you register?
08:22<@peter1138>nope ;p
08:22<Thomas[NL]_>whats the L & X in TTDLX ?
08:23<@peter1138>DeLuXe
08:23<Thomas[NL]_>ah
08:23<Thomas[NL]_>keep an eye on http://www.i-gameartist.com/
08:23<@peter1138>why?
08:24<@peter1138>oh, i see
08:24<Thomas[NL]_>I found the forum :/
08:25<Thomas[NL]_>my god
08:29<Wolf01>bad choice to have the forum hidden to guests
08:30<Thomas[NL]_>seems like you could only be invited first
08:31<Thomas[NL]_>SAC is online on the forums it seems
08:32<Wolf01>after the experience on the official forum, i think sac was really angry and i can understand her
08:33<Thomas[NL]_>may I ask what happened?
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08:35<Wolf01>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=8919&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=infra&start=940
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08:44<Thomas[NL]_>That's a sad story...
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08:50<elmex>hm
08:50<elmex>could someone sum it up for me? 50 pages
08:50<elmex>nvm
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08:56<Rubidium>elmex: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=538222#538222 <- just read that post
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08:57<elmex>hm,yes
08:58<elmex>SAC seems to be quite reasonable
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11:12<ewanm89>hey, how are you?
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11:14<Eddi|zuHause2>"idle" probably describes it :)
11:18<ewanm89>Anyone using latest svn?
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11:41<Wolf01>nothing interesting today, eh?
11:51<Eddi|zuHause2>no, only that arctan(1/2) != 22.5°
11:52<ewanm89>Anyone using latest svn of openttd?
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11:54<Wolf01>Eddi|zuHause2, as you can see, i'm not good at maths
11:54<Wolf01>ewanm89, yes
11:55<ewanm89>Can I play against you?
11:55<Wolf01>no
11:55<ewanm89>:(
11:55<Wolf01>i have other things to do
11:55<ewanm89>OK
11:56<ewanm89>Does anyone recommend any particular newgrf files?
11:56<Wolf01>TTRSv3
11:56<Wolf01>and UKRS
11:56<Eddi|zuHause2>DBSetXL
11:56<Eddi|zuHause2>and, of course, stolentrees :)
11:57<Wolf01>stolentrees is a must
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12:01<ewanm89>Where can I get stolen trees?
12:01<ewanm89>s/n t/nt/
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12:04<Eddi|zuHause2>from grfcrawler, i assume
12:04<Eddi|zuHause2>and it's on the forum, but it might be hidden :)
12:08<Szandor>anybody got thoughts on my overwrite roadstops patch? ( http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31893 )
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12:42<Wolf01>enhanced the adjoin patch, all station can be adjoined now
12:43<Wolf01>the patch: http://www.tt-forums.net//files/adjoin_stations_9828_2_140.diff
12:49<ewanm89_>stolentrees not on grfcrawler, could someone DCC it to me?
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12:54<ewanm89>Wolf01: Could you dcc me stolentrees?
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12:56<Thomas[NL]_>http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=527234&highlight=stolen+trees+grf#527234 10 seconds of tt-forums search magic needed
12:57<ewanm89>thanks
12:58<tormentum>!logs
12:58<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
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13:05<Wolf01>there's somebody who want to help for autoroad tool?
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14:27<Ammler>help invite
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14:48<Wolf01>'night
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15:06<eJoJ>Where can i submit a bug?
15:06<glx>bugs.openttd.org
15:06<glx>check if it isn't already reported first
15:06<eJoJ>oki
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16:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9831 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle.h): -Codechange: more refactoring of the loading/unloading.
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16:45<Sacro>ooh its him
16:46<Bjarni>damn it's dark outside
16:46<Bjarni>something killed the streetlights
16:46<Sacro>hehe
16:46<Sacro>amish invasion?
16:46<Bjarni>I wonder
16:47<Bjarni>it could also be a power failure, but then again why should I have power? :)
16:47<Bjarni>but the other houses appears to be dark as well
16:47<Sacro>indeed
16:47<Sacro>surely one out, all out?
16:47<Bjarni>that's the usual way
16:48<XeryusTC>maybe you got hooked up with a giant UPS
16:48<XeryusTC>like, a ninja UPS :P
16:48<Bjarni>err
16:48<Sacro>ooh
16:48<Bjarni>my UPS reports that the external power is ok
16:48<Sacro>the amish with wire cutters vs ninjas with their ups's
16:49<Bjarni>o_O
16:49<XeryusTC>:P
16:50<Sacro>the end is nigh
16:50<Eddi|zuHause2>err...
16:50<Bjarni>don't ask
16:51<Bjarni>it's Sacro after all
16:51<Bjarni>you don't want to know the reason
16:51<Bjarni>:p
16:51<Sacro>:o
16:52<Eddi|zuHause2>you're probably right. but i can't help it, it's my nature to try to understand reasons :p
16:52<Bjarni>NEVER ASK QUESTIONS WHERE YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW THE ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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16:53<Tefad>why do electrons behave as waves when there is no observer.
16:55<Eddi|zuHause2>did you observe that behaviour? :p
16:56<Bjarni>if you don't observe them, how can you be sure that they will?
16:57<Tefad>the outcome
16:57|-|XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:57<Tefad>if a tree falls in a forrest with no one around.. the tree still fell
16:58<Rubidium>Schrodinger's cat ;)
16:58<Tefad>yes yes indeed.
16:58<valhalla1w>schrödinger \o/
16:58<Tefad>i like schrodinger's fridge better.
16:59<valhalla1w>a fridge that ceases to exist when some radioactive atom......?
17:00<Tefad>http://www.loadingreadyrun.com/videos/view/102
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17:02<valhalla1w>:P
17:02<Tefad>http://www.angryflower.com/schrod.gif
17:02<Tefad>the source
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17:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9832 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix: leave the station when manually skipping to the next order and we are currently (un)loading.
17:12<Bjarni>btw the news today talked about some weird guy, who decided to get onto the roof of a train to get a ride.... The jerk didn't think as far as the bridge ahead o_O
17:12<Bjarni>now he isn't thinking at all anymore
17:13<Bjarni>why would anybody do something like that???
17:13<Rubidium>justice is swift
17:14<Rubidium>Bjarni: because the person didn't have any money?
17:14<Rubidium>and it's fairly normal
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17:14<Bjarni>surprisingly it appears that he had a valid ticket
17:14<Rubidium>in countries like Brazil and India
17:15<Bjarni>well, I know that a lot of poor Indians ride outside trains to save money, but here....
17:16<Rubidium>ofcourse trains in India hardly go anywhere near fast
17:17<Eddi|zuHause2>the only situation i remember seeing people on trains in europe wss during documentaries about WWII
17:19<Bjarni>I have a solution to this problem: put up catenary
17:20<Eddi|zuHause2>ah, right, that's why we don't have that problem anymore :p
17:21<Eddi|zuHause2>although... we already had catenary up during WWII, on some main routes
17:23<Eddi|zuHause2>especially on hilly routes in south germany and austria
17:23<Bjarni>go figure
17:23<Bjarni>electric traction is the best for hill climbing
17:24<Eddi|zuHause2>you probably don't have enough hills :)
17:24<Bjarni>also they use 16 2/3 Hz, a frequency produced by hydro power plants
17:24<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, i don't know the reasoning why this frequency was chosen
17:25<Bjarni>I do
17:25<Eddi|zuHause2>most power was probably produced by coal power plants
17:26<Bjarni>when they had to pick a frequency, they couldn't pick DC because that wouldn't work with the transformers, but each time the polarity changed, a spark would be produced in the engine
17:26<Bjarni>50 Hz would produce so many sparks, that the engine would overheat and melt
17:26<Eddi|zuHause2>uhhm... that does not sound very convincing
17:27<Bjarni>16 2/3 Hz turned out to be high enough for the transformers and low enough for the engines
17:27<Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause2> uhhm... that does not sound very convincing <-- not by modern standards, but it was a real issue when the catenary was built
17:28<Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause2> most power was probably produced by coal power plants <-- 16 2/3 Hz needs lower RPM at the powerplant, so hydro power has always been used and is still used to supply the railroads
17:28<Bjarni>they have their own 16 2/3 Hz power grid
17:29[~]Bjarni wonders why the spark reason isn't convincing
17:31<Bjarni>the reason for using 16 2/3 Hz died when the high power AC-DC converter was invented
17:31<Bjarni>but by then it was too expensive to replace all the catenary power grid and electric engines
17:32<Bjarni>they simply had built too many by then
17:32<Bjarni>USA managed to switch from 25 Hz to 60 Hz though. They built engines that could handle both for years and then they started replacing the power grid then most engines could survive it
17:33<Bjarni>GG1 was retired though because it's a 25 Hz only engine
17:33<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't know anything about american engines
17:34<Eddi|zuHause2>or american power systems...
17:34<Bjarni>the American power grid uses 60 Hz
17:34<Bjarni>the European one uses 50 Hz
17:34<Bjarni>I guess you heard that before ;)
17:34<Bjarni>Japan uses both (what a mess :p)
17:35<Bjarni>anyway I know the spark reason to be the real reason for picking 16 2/3 Hz
17:39<Bjarni>http://www.l-eriksen.dk/toge/vet/klubber/bryrup_vrads/1/pic00007.jpg <-- LOL. There is a sign toward the train.... like people will have problems finding the train when they reach this sign :D
17:42<Eddi|zuHause2>hmm... a lot of stations i know have a sign saying "to the trains"... usually inside the waiting hall, though
17:43<Bjarni>yeah, I have seen those as well
17:43<Bjarni>... but right next to the only platform on the station :D
17:44<Eddi|zuHause2>well... :p
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18:34<Ailure>toot
18:35<Bjarni>hi Ailure
18:36<Ailure>hello
18:36<Bjarni>what do you mean by "toot"?
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18:39<Ailure>:o
18:39<Ailure>Toot like a steam engine
18:39<Bjarni>you aren't supposed to say that
18:39<Bjarni>you are supposed to make the engine say that :p
18:40<Bjarni>http://www.veterantoget.dk/materiel/damp/s1307.html <-- like I have done with this one :D
18:40<Ailure>Danish
18:41<Ailure>:o
18:41[~]geoffk choo choo, beep beep
18:41<Ailure>Nice steam engine
18:42<Ailure>Been awhile since I saw one RL now
18:42<Ailure>Would be cool seeing a old steam engine next to a X2 on a train station. :P
18:42<Ailure>I like clashes.
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18:43<Bjarni>hehe
18:43<Ailure>ah
18:43<Ailure>that train is b
18:43<Ailure>Swedish too
18:43<Bjarni>I have been on this engine and looked at an X2000 on the nearby track
18:44<Ailure>hehe
18:44<Ailure>X2000 make a rather cool noise :o
18:44<Ailure>It sounds more like a airplane landing than a train
18:44<Bjarni>heh
18:44<Bjarni>this particular X2000 didn't move
18:45<Bjarni>loading passengers or some other lame excuse for not driving as fast as possible :p
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18:48<valhalla1w>!coffee
18:48|-|valhalla1w changed nick to valhallasw
18:48<valhallasw>;(
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18:48[~]Bjarni hands a container with some black liquid to valhallasw
18:48<valhallasw>\o/
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18:49<valhallasw>I suspect it will be 4 o'clock when I finally can get some sleep >_<
18:49<Bjarni>you mean you are going to drink it?
18:49<valhallasw>yes
18:49[~]valhallasw smells
18:49<valhallasw>wait.
18:49<valhallasw>that is motor oil
18:49<valhallasw>>:(
18:49<Bjarni>actually not
18:49<Bjarni>it's lube oil
18:50<Bjarni>thick lube oil
18:50<Bjarni>from the locomotive I just posted a link to
18:50<Bjarni>you know how lube oil for cars is named like 10-30 for thin oil and 15-40 for thick one?
18:51<valhallasw>it has something to do with the pressure you need to exert
18:51<valhallasw>probably
18:51<Bjarni>the lube oil for the rods is something with 135 and it is usually heated so it can be thin enough to apply
18:51<valhallasw>I only know it is about as evil as PSU's and BTU's
18:51<valhallasw>PSI's :+
18:52<Bjarni>PSI?
18:52<valhallasw>hm, psi's
18:52<valhallasw>pounds per square inch-evilness
18:52<Ailure>haha
18:52<Ailure>that fork thread amuses me everytime
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18:54<Ailure>like forking it from a old revision D:
18:54<Ailure>and that c++ is the evul
18:55<Bjarni>the fork thing?
18:55<Ailure>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=30976
18:55<Ailure>this thread
18:55<Tefad>pascal replaces PSI
18:55<Ailure>it's not going anywhere as you can see
18:56<Ailure>I also laugh everytime people complain about coding style
18:56<Ailure>I have no problems adapting myself to whatever people want :D
18:57<Bjarni>well, I do have a problem adapting to whatever people want
18:57<Ailure>there's also problems that converts coding styles too
18:57<Bjarni>specially if they want odd stuff like a free taxi or gay sex
18:57<Ailure>*programs
19:03<Sacro>free taxi?
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---Logclosed Mon May 14 00:00:04 2007