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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-05-18

---Logopened Fri May 18 00:00:35 2007
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02:24<robert___>hi all
02:24<robert___>I am getting desync errors when playing on local lan
02:24<robert___>the server does not run a firewall
02:24<robert___>anyone has an idea on what to try next?
02:25<robert___>im playing 0.5.2-RC1
02:25<@Rubidium>can you reproduce them reliably?
02:26<robert___>well
02:26<robert___>if i connect to the server
02:26<robert___>i get thrown off within 2 mins
02:26<robert___>every time
02:26<robert___>so i guess yes :-)
02:27<robert___>can it be because we set the map size to 512 * 512?
02:27<@Rubidium>nope
02:27<robert___>hmmmmm
02:27<robert___>on my client should i do special firewall things?
02:27<@Rubidium>desyncs are mismatches in the game state (thus a bug somewhere)
02:27<robert___>ic
02:28<robert___>perhaps i should role back to 5.1?
02:28<@Rubidium>can you reproduce it "from" scratch, i.e. saving the current savegame of the server and restarting the server and then joining after a few seconds
02:28<robert___>ok let us try
02:28<@Rubidium>robert___: rather not, because I want to debug the desync ;)
02:28<robert___>ok :-)
02:31<@Rubidium>and to be of any use for debugging, the desync should preferably happen in the first minute after starting the server and joining the client
02:32<@Rubidium>oh, are you using any newgrfs?
02:33<robert___>no
02:33<robert___>somehow it seems to work now...
02:33<robert___>strante
02:33<robert___>strange
02:33<robert___>the first time, we just opened a new map
02:33<robert___>new game
02:33<robert___>with only 2 players
02:33<robert___>each player running an own company
02:33<robert___>on our lan
02:34<robert___>and i tried to connect in the start of the game for like 4 times, every time got disconnected
02:34<robert___>but now it seems to work
02:34<robert___>is the game perhaps in some kind of start-up phase in the beginning?
02:34<robert___>still initializing stuff?
02:34<@Rubidium>no
02:34<robert___>mmmmmmm
02:34<robert___>strange
02:34<robert___>i will try to start a new game ok
02:35<robert___>and see whether it still goes wrong
02:35<robert___>when i got disconnected, i didn't built anything; i was just panning over the map
02:35<@Rubidium>the error was something with the word desync in it right?
02:36<robert___>on the client side it was dbg: [NET] Sync error detected!
02:36<robert___>and the server side said desync error
02:36<robert___>(according to my girlfirned)
02:37<@Rubidium>ok, that's a genuine desync, not somebody who interprets disconnecting *always* in desyncs ;)
02:37<robert___>lol
02:37<robert___>i'm a programmer ;-)
02:37<@Rubidium>the problem is that I've seen to many people saying the game desynced when they just lost they wireless connection for too long or so
02:38<robert___>oic
02:38<@Rubidium>oh, what hardware are both machines (OS + processor type)
02:39<robert___>client: opensuse 10.0, AMD 2 gig
02:39<robert___>server: opensuse 10.2, AMD 2.4 gig
02:40<@Rubidium>did the player on the server or the player on the client do anything before the desync that changes the game state (looking at the map etc doesn't do that)
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02:41<robert___>the player on the server was building
02:41<robert___>i was only panning
02:41<robert___>of course i did launch a new company
02:41<robert___>so that appearantly changed state
02:41<robert___>but further i did nothing
02:41<robert___>how do i get rid of the game console??
02:42<robert___>ah `
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02:48<@Rubidium>any idea what was build on the server before the client joined?
02:48<@Rubidium>oh and can you send me the savegame?
02:52<robert___>yes but it doesnt give the crash anymore
02:52<robert___>and we are playing for quite a time now, and all works correctly
02:53<@Rubidium>I know, but you said it started to desync from the beginning of the game, right?
02:54<@Rubidium>and the seed to generate the map and all settings that influenced that are stored in the savegame IIRC
02:54<robert___>ok
02:54<robert___>where can i send it to?
02:55<@Rubidium>rubidium @ openttd . org or you can put it on your website or maybe dcc
02:56<robert___>dcc doesnt work cuz im to lazy to set my port forwards :-)
02:57<robert___>i will mail it to you ok?
02:57<robert___>in a few hours ill send it
02:57<robert___>first gotta play :-)
02:57<@Rubidium>yup, otherwise I wouldn't give you that option ;)
02:57<robert___>:-)
02:57<robert___>ok i told my gf to keep it :-)
02:57<robert___>we will send it later today
02:57<robert___>thanks for your help!
02:57<@Rubidium>you're welcome
02:57<robert___>bye
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04:07<@peter1138>tron :D
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04:09<ln->ain't it impolite to laugh at him
04:19<Kittysune>but but
04:19<Kittysune>this is the internet
04:19<Kittysune>ok wtf
04:19<Kittysune>Ailure been dead for hours
04:20<Kittysune>talk about a laggy IRC oh
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04:20<Ailure> somehow I had joined this channel twice
04:20<Ailure>xD
04:20<Ailure>Or rather
04:20<Ailure>stupid mIRC
04:25<@peter1138>has been!
04:35<Ailure>:(
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05:30<Ailure>http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/pictures/network_psg_40_pr.png
05:30<Ailure>I wonder how that image was generated o_O
05:42<@peter1138>giant screenshot, scale/rotate, then some blobs
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06:09<+tokai>peter1138: seems its not that easy. I had to rotate, skew, crop and scale to get a similiar result (or I did something wrong). :)
06:11<+tokai>right, maybe scaling first does the trick.
06:12<+tokai>ok, thats better.. indeed:)
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06:57<kaan>hi all
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06:57<hnsn>y0 kaan
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09:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r9868 /trunk/src/industry.h: -Codechange: bring external declaration of functions togueter and adjust a comment
10:05<Ailure>togueter?
10:05<Ailure>:)
10:06<Ailure>sounds like french
10:06<Sleepie>funny typo I guess
10:08<@Belugas>let's get TOGETHER!
10:08<@Belugas>Right now
10:09<@Belugas>true... in french, the english "ge" sound wold be written "gue"
10:10<@Belugas>and i guess i've been going some phonetic typing :S
10:10<@Belugas>dong
10:10<@Belugas>doing
10:10<@Belugas>gaaaa...
10:10[~]Belugas minimizes irc
10:10<Ailure>lol
10:10<Sleepie>:D
10:11<Sleepie>maybe buy a new keyboard ;)
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11:07<yeti_>uh, did you raise the amount of time that a crashed plane lies on the runway before being removed from the game?
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11:15<@peter1138>yeah, it's a bug
11:15<@peter1138>3 * longer
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11:30<yeti_>two other problems i've noticed with latest trunk:
11:31<yeti_>oilfield show "0 litres of oil" as production value, but they do produce oil
11:32<yeti_>and the transported ranking for one of my farms just cannot work. it says 414 pc of livestock (1% transported), but i'm transporting nearly all of it, the station has a 75% rating for livestock
11:40[~]Belugas is checking for 1st industry problem
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12:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9869 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: replace some bytes with VehicleType, i.e. more type strictness.
12:33<elmex>hmm, what are the rules production rates go up and down? i've read http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Game_Mechanics#Industry_Production but it somehow doesn't reflect the game much in my experience.
12:33<elmex>eg. when delivering 80-90% of a coal mine it wents down like crazy
12:36<Patrick>did you have stable economy on or off?
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12:37<elmex>it's enabled
12:38<elmex>smooth economy that is
12:38<Patrick>sorry, I mean
12:39<Patrick>economy: stable/fluctuating
12:39<elmex>fluctuating
12:39<Patrick>there you go then
12:40<elmex>hmm
12:40<elmex>so in fluctuating economy industries also go down randomly?
12:42<Sleepie>yep
12:42<elmex>⋅       ⋅       if (_economy.fluct <= 0) cw = (cw + 1) / 2;
12:42<elmex>hmm
12:44<elmex>http://www.ta-sa.org/files/txt/d81fedcdfa69cae0bc6b6e3647f5eccb.txt
12:44<elmex>so basically fluctuating economy takes the waiting cargo and halves it?
12:46<elmex>hm, ok, i don't understand it :)
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12:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r9870 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp industry.h industry_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Silence two compiler warnings and give proper type to the "type" member of industry struct
12:56<@Belugas>yeti, i gave it a try and oil wells are showing proper production. maybe give some more informations?
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13:07<elmex>don't really have more informations, that were only experienced from onliengames where i wondered that productions went down pretty much even thought the transported percentage was at 90%
13:07<elmex>but maybe it was the fluctuating economy indeed
13:08<@Rubidium>transporting 90% doesn't mean that there is a 0% chance that the production goes down
13:09<@Rubidium>like you can flip a million coins and always get tails, only the chance is pretty small
13:10<elmex>well, i know that, but it seemed to go down nearly everytime... but i'm maybe wrong, i will observe it better next time
13:11<@Rubidium>elmex: that's the problem with random, it can go down nearly every time and still be correct
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13:12<@peter1138>also the rate is random (for smooth)
13:12<@peter1138>as someone pointed out
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13:12<elmex>well, even when it affects every industriy i'm servicing with 90%? :)
13:13<@peter1138>if it goes down 10% 4 times, then up 10% 4 times you're left with 96%...
13:13<@Rubidium>elmex: theoretically that is possible
13:13<@Rubidium>as I said, you can flip coins and get tails a million times in a row, it's just unlikely
13:13<@Rubidium>but not impossible
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13:15<elmex>yes
13:17<@peter1138>hmm, max change is 23%
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13:18<@peter1138>after 4 downs and 4 ups you get to 80% of the original
13:20<Patrick>rounded to the nearest multiple of 8
13:20<Patrick>or however it goes
13:21<Patrick>or are you using shorts now
13:21<Patrick>ints even
13:21<@Rubidium>probably rounded down too
13:21<Patrick>istr at one point industry production used a single byte scaled up so that the max was 4096
13:21<Patrick>so that'd be multiplied by ... uuh ...
13:21<Patrick>2**6
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16:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9871 /trunk/src/ (cargotype.cpp table/cargo_const.h): -Fix (r8826): Some cargo costs were wrong for different climates. Multiple definitions of the same cargo type are sometimes required.
16:51<@peter1138>only a thousand revisions
16:53<Sleepie>lol
16:53<+glx>how testers are bad :)
16:54<Sleepie>I'm a tester, I'm a player so I can't be bothered :P
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16:54<Sleepie>ups forget the 'not' ;)
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17:27<skidd13>Is there a possibility to use HASBIT for a switch?
17:29<@peter1138>no
17:29<skidd13>:(
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18:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9872 /trunk/src/ (vehicle.cpp vehicle.h): -Codechange: more type strictness for vehicle types
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20:17<UndernotBuilder>boekabart isn't here :(
20:20<UndernotBuilder>I wanted to ask him if he can redesign the high-level rivers feature so it looks more like the ttdpatch ones (like canals but less artificial-ish)
20:21<UndernotBuilder>also will be good shipstations like this http://www.tt-forums.net/files/scr447_216.png
20:22<@peter1138>...
20:22<@peter1138>that's a canal and lock
20:23<UndernotBuilder>but something like that can be used for shipstations...
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22:34<Touqen>I'm bored.
22:34<Touqen>Entertain me.
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---Logclosed Sat May 19 00:00:09 2007