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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-05-20

---Logopened Sun May 20 00:00:43 2007
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00:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9887 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r9867): Industry production statistics messed up...
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03:25<haclet>Hi gays
03:25<@peter1138>really
03:30<haclet>I have some queston about ottd for developers, is there any :) ?? :)
03:30<hylje>no ottd does not have developers
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03:31<haclet>Ups ;) But I though I can share with my ideas, echh :)
03:31<haclet>OK to be serious. I have some ideas and I would like to discuss about them.
03:32<hylje>go ahead
03:32<haclet>And I would like to write patch, but I need some little help for do it.
03:33<haclet>I think that good idea will be create in game two new windows: First - window with keyshorts - as I saw in sorce code - is a lot of keyshort in game.
03:33<hylje>i'd rather have the shortcuts shown in context
03:34<hylje>(button etc. help text)
03:34<haclet>But no all are descibe on website ottd. And a lot of people don't read manual :)
03:35<haclet>defenetly you are right
03:35<hylje>also shortcut remapping? ;)
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03:37<haclet>But i think that would be nice when the gamers can swich on windows and there will see: list: (main screen: F1 - pause, F2 - some esle, F3 - some else, and that , Rail mode, 1 - first track, 2 - secound, 6 - dynamite), etc .. etc
03:37<haclet>do you mead that gamers can change keyshortcat - hmmm, maybe in the future...
03:38<haclet>I talking about some little help inside a game - where gamers can know what and how can they do it.
03:40<haclet>For example combination with - SHIFT (check cost of building) -- I read this from ottd page but is no access from game menu, is it?
03:40<haclet>Combination for signals. It is fany, I plaid TTD long time ago and I didn't know that are pre-signals, since I read manual for ottd :)
03:41<hylje>no hotkey is marked up in the menus
03:41<haclet>And my really question is? How can I create a new window in game. I checked code and I know about 'Wiget' - And I successfulyt creat new window based on game options.
03:43<haclet>But when I am playing and my window will appear - I cant close it - button close - doesn work - And this is execly what I would like to ask developers :) But if is noone here :) ....
03:43<haclet>hylje: are you still there ?
03:43<hylje>yes
03:43<haclet>So: what do U think?
03:43<hylje>iirc you have to handle the window close event
03:44<haclet>but how - wait I look to my code (10 sec.:)
03:44<hylje>and i'd not have a hotkey window around -- rather show the relevant hotkey(s) in the help text
03:44<hylje>i don't code ottd.
03:47<haclet>Could you more descibe what do you mean: 'in the help text'? (my english sometimes is not enough to correct understand).
03:47<hylje>right-click on an item
03:47<hylje>a text pop ups
03:47<hylje>pops up
03:48<haclet>ok - but where should be information about for example (combination with shift?)
03:48<hylje>key -- do something
03:48<hylje><shift>key -- do something else
03:48<haclet>yes yes --
03:49<hylje>in the end those texts need to be relayed to our translators
03:49<hylje>but the help texts need to know what the relevant keys are
03:49<haclet>but i think - where you click all icons for building - track, depots, etc - when you clik right on them - there will appear popus windows
03:49<haclet>and all of them should have information: <shift>key - do something...
03:50<haclet>hmmm - i think is a good idea.
03:50<hylje>think of a way to pair shortcuts to keys
03:50<hylje>and provide that info to the button help texts
03:52<haclet>I checked sorce code - is no mechanism to do that now.
03:52<hylje>exactly!
03:54<haclet>I will think about it.
03:55<haclet>And the second question is: I would like to join to development team, could you tell me witch who I should to talk? And do you know what is required to join them?
03:55<hylje>make some patches, you'll see :)
03:56<haclet>hehe - right answer :)
03:57<haclet>But for example: we were talking about some futures, and now for example I will make patch - I will send it to forum, and them accept it?
03:57<hylje>you can post here as well, but forum is good too!
03:57<haclet>Or is some place where we can talk first - like with you. No I have your point of view for my idea (or many people are thinking about it as well) :)
03:58<Patrick>make some patches and if they're just another "ooh, a feature" then it'll get rolled into the miniIN and never accepted
03:58<hylje>oh, to that
03:58<hylje>be persistent!
03:58<Patrick>if it's a bugfix or making the code nicer to work with without changing the game, then it'll be better :)
03:58<Patrick>just ask about your idea here tho
03:59<haclet>I just did that :)
04:00<haclet>Thak you for your help..
04:00<haclet>Are playing ??? In some server ?
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04:02<haclet>okey - I have to go
04:03<haclet>Thank for advices and have a nice days.
04:03<haclet>See you sortly (I don't know when) ...
04:03<hylje>np
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04:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9888 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_cargo.cpp station_gui.cpp): -Codechange: [NewGRF] allow non-spec cargo action2s to work, and using the goods sprite if really nothing is returned.
04:18<@peter1138>hmm, context :p
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04:27<kaan>mornig all
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04:43<[BDS]-Klaus>hi all
04:44<[BDS]-Klaus>could somebody tell me how i can add KI-Player in Multiplayer modus?
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05:01<[BDS]-Klaus>i have set config with this:
05:01<[BDS]-Klaus>ai_in_multiplayer = true
05:01<[BDS]-Klaus>ai_disable_veh_train = false
05:01<[BDS]-Klaus>ai_disable_veh_roadveh = false
05:01<[BDS]-Klaus>ai_disable_veh_aircraft = false
05:01<[BDS]-Klaus>ai_disable_veh_ship = false
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05:03<@Rubidium>you need to have the "new ai" for that, but even then I'm wondering whether it works
05:07<Thomas[NL]>ainew_active = true
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05:09<Osai>hi all
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05:13<Thomas[NL]>my PC doesn't like the new zoom-levels
05:13<@peter1138>hehe
05:13<@peter1138>mine neither
05:14<hylje>zoooom levelz
05:15<Thomas[NL]>strange thing is it is not slow but to fast.. in some way
05:16<@peter1138>too... fast?
05:17<Thomas[NL]>I don't know how to describe it,
05:17<hylje>noises from larger area?
05:17<Thomas[NL]>I try to go slowly to the right and suddenly woosh I on the other side of the map
05:18<hylje>woosh
05:18<[BDS]-Klaus>thx... i will test it
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05:19[~]peter1138 tries it on a huge map
05:20<@peter1138>the sort i can't run at normal speed anyway :o
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05:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9889 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Codechange: Use cargo's freight status for choosing livery scheme.
05:28<elmex>hmm
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05:31<TrueBrain>hmmmmm
05:33<@peter1138>hmm?
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06:22<valhallasw>is there a special reason ottd is using a recursive make system?
06:22<TrueBrain>recursive? it isn't.
06:23<TrueBrain>it does call sub-makefiles
06:23<valhallasw>it calls make -C <sub-makefile>
06:23<valhallasw>oh wait
06:23<TrueBrain>and how is that recursive?
06:24<hylje>if sub-makefiles call sub-sub-makefiles and so on..
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06:24<TrueBrain>recursive it would be if it calls its own makefile
06:24<TrueBrain>which of course is never true
06:25<valhallasw>in this case, recursive is calling make itself
06:26<TrueBrain>that even isn't recursive :)
06:27<TrueBrain>But again, it does call sub-makefiles
06:28<valhallasw>make calling make isn't recursive? ;)
06:29<TrueBrain>is calling abs(myfunc()) , where myfunc calls abs() recursive?
06:30<TrueBrain>which in fact would make many many things recursive...
06:30<hylje>circular
06:31<valhallasw>then in your terms, ls -R is not recursive
06:31<TrueBrain>and by my terms how exactly?
06:32<valhallasw>that would be ls(/) calling ls(/bin)
06:32<valhallasw>where, in your terms, '/' is calling 'ls(/bin)'
06:33<TrueBrain>calling itself directly, very good!
06:33<valhallasw>ls -R is completely comparable to calling make in subdirectories
06:33<TrueBrain>only if my example holds as recursive too
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06:34<@Rubidium>valhallasw: but... ls -R is internally recursive
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06:34<valhallasw>Rubidium: agreed
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06:35<Szandor>is anybody here a mod for the OTTD dev forum? If so, could they rename this topic: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31893
06:36<TrueBrain>valhallasw: anyway, the need for something to be resurcive is that exactly the same code is called, with possible different param values. I once had a very nice definition of it, but I can't find it now :(
06:37<TrueBrain>I like the math way of defining it: F(0) = a; F(n + 1) = f(F(n))
06:37<valhallasw>TrueBrain: with that defenition, make calling make with another makefile would be recursive (the text one)
06:38<TrueBrain>valhallasw: not on our level of design :)
06:38<valhallasw>and that math way does not include all 'true' recursive functions
06:38<TrueBrain>anyway, a key word missing in my line: repeatidly :)
06:38<TrueBrain>that math statement is _the_ recursion theorem :)
06:38<valhallasw>i fail to see how it would cover ls -R
06:39<TrueBrain>(Assuming f works from X to X, and F from N to X of course)
06:39<valhallasw>oh wait
06:39<TrueBrain>you should open the source code of 'ls' and it will come to you :p
06:39<valhallasw>let's reed for one thing
06:39<valhallasw>>_<
06:39<valhallasw>but still that recursive theorem does not include expanding recursion
06:39<TrueBrain>darn, who would have guessed those Lineair Algabra leasons were good for something :p
06:40<valhallasw>that absolutely has nothing to do with LA
06:40<TrueBrain>lol, wikipedia has a nice one:
06:40<TrueBrain> Recursion
06:40<TrueBrain> See "Recursion".
06:40<TrueBrain>euh, AN of course :) haha
06:41<valhallasw>lets try that theorem with ln -R /... F(0) = '/'; F(1) = ls('/'); F(2) = ls('/bin'), F(2) = ls('/usr'), F(2)= ???
06:43<valhallasw>hm, it might work when we define f(a b c (...)) to be concat(f(a), f(b), f(c) ...)
06:43<TrueBrain>nothing wrong with your creativity :)
06:43<valhallasw>:p
06:43<TrueBrain>anyway, nuff said
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07:18<TrueBrain>burp
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08:20<l_Blue_l>Hey if there are any devs on here i was wondering if you could comment on my Advanced non_stop patch here http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31945 . All it does is split the non-stop into two types basically VIA (TTDpatch non-stop) and Stop All Stations (The inverse of the original non-stop).
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08:24<skidd13>l_Blue_l: I'd say one thing comment your functions (->wiki)
08:24<TrueBrain>wasn't there a patch setting already doing so?
08:25<l_Blue_l>but this removes it as a patch option. HAHAHA yes yes sorry i will comment on the functions.
08:26<skidd13>IIRC The patch setting applys global. The patch let the player choose indicvidual.
08:27<skidd13>s/indicvidual/individual/
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08:29<l_Blue_l>sorry i dont understand
08:31<skidd13>The patch setting applys to all non-stop orders. l_Blue_l's patch creates an additional order bit.
08:31<skidd13>better. ;)
08:34<l_Blue_l>yes yes
08:36<skidd13>l_Blue_l: I read a while through your code and it's very hard to read (IMO). It'll be much easier if there are more comments and more newlines to group some code together.
08:39<ln->the feature will probably be considered useless
08:43<l_Blue_l>There is even a comment within the OpenTTD code to split it into two (original and ttfpatch style handling)
08:43<ln->settable per train?
08:44<skidd13>ln-: yes
08:44<l_Blue_l>@skidd13: I will give the code a good going over as i agree with you as i still dont understand some things i have done.
08:45<skidd13>@l_Blue_l: :) I did that too with my order_gui code after I realised that too. ;)
08:46<@Rubidium>l_Blue_l: first, that patch contains much more than just changed nonstop stuff
08:47<ln->in locomotion this setting is called local/express, it's settable per train, and i think it's a great feature.
08:47<@Rubidium>secondly I suggest to have "go to X", "go to directly to X" (non-stop), "go via X" (waypoint) and "go directly via X" (non-stop + waypoint)
08:47<ln->but only one dev has shown even some interest in such featuer.
08:47<ln->-er +re
08:50<l_Blue_l>it includes non-stop and new way to display text .... there no other fetures included in the advanced non-stop patch just left over code. (i have just started to use svn (thankgod) and i just had to remove all the unrelated code bnut i realised i have missed a lot.
08:53<l_Blue_l>@Rubidium: On the subject of "go directly to X" i felt that this is to long for what i would consider the normal order type. But to be honest i dont mind what it is
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09:14<@peter1138>non-stop!
09:16<@Rubidium>I'd rather have trains waiting for a red signal than just going through red signals ;)
09:16<TrueBrain>bad joke :p
09:21<ln->http://store.artlebedev.com/catalog/computer_add-ons/optimus/
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09:58<@Bjarni>ln-: I read about it like two days ago
09:58<@Bjarni>it's too old to even be yesterday's news :p
09:58<@Bjarni>but
09:58<@Bjarni>it's still cool
09:59<@Bjarni>it would be cool to add icons for OTTD hotkeys in it
09:59<@Bjarni>now if only somebody would donate a keyboard to test it on...
10:00<ln->the price is unexpectedly high
10:00<TrueBrain>just two days ago? That is _very_ old news
10:00<+glx>yeah it's old
10:01<TrueBrain>I really wonder how long a keyboard like this survives normal usage...
10:01<ln->i saw it on slashdot, so of course it is old.
10:01<@Bjarni><ln-> the price is unexpectedly high <-- they have a patent from 1996. I think they spent a great deal in research to make this work
10:01<@Bjarni>the actual price of the keyboard is likely much lower, but if it is to cover the cost of research since 1996...
10:02<@Bjarni><TrueBrain> I really wonder how long a keyboard like this survives normal usage... <-- me too. However if you are rich enough to buy such a keyboard, you can pay for another one when it's broken :p
10:02<ln->but the big audience is not ready to pay the price of two modern computers for a cool keyboard.
10:02<@Bjarni>(or not, because you are broke when you paid the first one)
10:02<TrueBrain>http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/optimus_maximus_01.jpg
10:03<TrueBrain>at least they finally have an any key
10:03<valhallasw>Bjarni: there is a reason that thing is a top-10 vaporware item
10:03<TrueBrain>takes away a lot of stupid questions
10:03<valhallasw>just like spore >_<
10:04<@Bjarni><TrueBrain> at least they finally have an any key <-- when it comes out, somebody will release an app to change a button into saying "any"
10:04<TrueBrain>I wonder, if I would have such a keyboard, I think it would never change of layout :p
10:04<TrueBrain>Bjarni: did you view the image?!
10:04<@Bjarni>yeah
10:05<@Bjarni>it points to keys and call them any, but it doesn't say any on the keys themselves
10:05<valhallasw>3d realms actually free'ed duke3d's source :o
10:05<@Bjarni> <TrueBrain> I wonder, if I would have such a keyboard, I think it would never change of layout :p <--- well, apps and games would have to apply hotkeys to it by themselves to make it really useful
10:07<@Bjarni>it needs external power :(
10:08<hylje>:o
10:08<@Bjarni>they should combine it with that thin LCD Sony just published. That one will only need power when changing pixels. That way it could be powered though USB only
10:09<@Bjarni>however placing a 0,3 mm LCD screen on top of each key might not be durable enough
10:10<Phazorx>hmm UKRS's 3xFreightliner Container Rake has a bug with gradual loading :/
10:10<@Bjarni>0,3 mm thick (or thin), that is
10:10<ln->the screen doesn't move
10:11<ln->only the transparent key cap
10:11<@Bjarni>hmm
10:11<@Bjarni>I usually don't look at keys from the top. I usually look at them angled. This will not be good if the image is too low in the key
10:12<@Bjarni>I'm pretty sure that there is a future in this keyboard idea, but I'm not so sure that the first generation will be a hit
10:13<ln->not with that price tag
10:13<@Bjarni>with improved technology, I guess it would be likely to make them standard so it's one keyboard for the entire world and all OSes. Then the computer will set up the keys it needs
10:14<@Bjarni>the patent of using changing icons on a keyboard is from 1996. When will it run out?
10:14<@Bjarni>I mean how long should we wait until some other company will try to take over? :)
10:14<ln->with that key layout in the picture it's not possible to use the normal fin/swe layout.
10:15<@Bjarni>or the Danish
10:15<ln->i don't recall ever seeing a danish keyboard
10:16<@Rubidium>Phazorx: what's wrong with it?
10:16<@Bjarni>as I said: it's not likely that the first generation will be a great hit like later (and cheaper) versions might become
10:16<ln->(but i can believe they exist)
10:16<@Bjarni><ln-> (but i can believe they exist) <-- you trust something that you have never seen?
10:16<@Bjarni><ln-> i don't recall ever seeing a danish keyboard <-- funny. I have
10:16<@Bjarni>in fact I'm using one right now
10:17<@Bjarni>let me take a screenshot so you can see it
10:17<@Bjarni>:p
10:18<Phazorx>Rubidium: it is considered 1 vagon
10:19<Phazorx>so all 3 load X unit of cargo per day
10:19<Phazorx>so it's not 3 40 cargo cars
10:19<Phazorx>but one 120
10:19<Phazorx>with length of 3
10:19<Phazorx>and it loads tree times longer
10:21<@Rubidium>why does that wagon only take goods? now I need to build a whole network to fill the wagon :(
10:21<Phazorx>heh
10:21<Phazorx>join coopers game
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10:47<@Rubidium>Phazorx: it seems to work in trunk with ukrs 3.04
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10:52<Phazorx>Rubidium: try loading 2 trains of similar capacity
10:52<Phazorx>or join coopers
10:53<Phazorx>1x120t in form of 3x40 loads much longer than 1x40
10:53<Phazorx>it is UKRS issues i;d say since gradual loading has per car per time algorithm
10:53<Phazorx>5 something per whatever
10:53<Phazorx>if car is sold as one it treats it as one
10:54<Phazorx>so instead of 8 ticks to load 40 it is 24 ticks to load 120
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10:56<@peter1138>seems fine for me
10:56<@peter1138>11 crates every tick
10:58<+glx>gradual loading is fully configurable by grf author
10:58<Phazorx>hmm
11:01<Phazorx>something was weird i guess
11:01<Phazorx>i dons see a problem anymore :/
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11:11<skidd13>A question about new *.h files: should all enums and static stuct's placed there or only the global used suff?
11:11<@peter1138>only if it's used elsewhere, really
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11:15<skidd13>Can someone of the dev's check my order-gui patch. (http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31074).
11:15<skidd13>I'd like to see it in trunk (If it's clean ;) ).
11:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9890 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Don't allocate space for 0 spriteset ranges
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12:32<Wolf01>hello
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13:07<MiO>i have troubles to get ottd to compile unter vs8, is there any package that includes the required libraries ?
13:09<@Rubidium>yes
13:10<@Rubidium>it's called openttd-useful.zip and it's on the SF page, but there's a link of the wiki
13:11<MiO>thx
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13:23<Scarzzurs>Lo there :-)
13:24<Scarzzurs>I just got an assertion on openttd with the passengers/mail with specific destination patch...
13:24<Scarzzurs>Would you guys know if the author comes around here?
13:24<@peter1138>nope, he doesn't
13:24<Scarzzurs>Otherwise i guess i could post it on the forums, although i'd prefer hand it here...
13:24<Scarzzurs>Hmm, ok. Thanks :-)
13:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9891 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#787]: the manage list menu wasn't removed/updated when changing to another group making it able to perform "group" actions for "all vehicles", which would cause a crash.
13:39<Wolf01>i just seen this on the forum: "Now that there are 2 more zoom levels (8x and 16x)..." but... i want zoom IN not zoom OUT!!!!
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13:51<@Rubidium>Wolf01: zooming isn't as easy as zooming out
13:51<@peter1138>just press ctrl-D ;)
13:52<@peter1138>but really, the game's mechanics can't take a larger size
13:52<Wolf01>but ctrl-D is ugly, all the ui are so big
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13:55<@peter1138>Wolf01: so is http://fuzzle.org/o/glitch2.png :p
13:55<Wolf01>the zoom out need some optimization as asked in the forum, trees not visible seem bad, but don't draw vehicles is way better
13:55<Wolf01>that is a 4x zoom in?
13:56<Wolf01>2x is sufficient imho
13:56<@peter1138>4x is what the 32bpp artists wanted, heh
13:56<hylje>the more the merrier!
13:57<hylje>implement 16x
13:57<@peter1138>16x!
13:57<hylje>heh
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13:58<skidd13>hi
13:58<hylje>hi
13:59<Wolf01>hi
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14:00<Wolf01>hi lolman!
14:00<lolman>Ello Wolf01!
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14:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9892 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: lots of ground work for allowing multiple types of "road" with multiple owners on a single tile.
14:16<boekabart>!logs
14:16<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
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14:20<Biff>ooh
14:20<Biff>new zoom
14:20<Biff>that was quite laggy :D
14:22<Osai>SpComb: my nick is on second place of the most referenced nicks oO
14:22<SpComb>in the stats? Who knows
14:23<Osai>yes, at your logs
14:24<boekabart>TrueBrain: good work on the zoom levels, i'm checking that diff right now, looks good.
14:27<MiO>PBS !
14:27<@Rubidium>ooh, MiO's just telling he's going to implement PBS ;)
14:27<Wolf01>Rubidium, can you explain to me that commit message? i mean what it will allow to do
14:27<MiO>i want to do this
14:27<@Rubidium>Wolf01: my last one?
14:27<Wolf01>yes
14:27<@Rubidium>it does absolutely nothing at the moment
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14:28<Wolf01>yeah, i already noticed the "ground work"
14:28<boekabart>Rubidium: Q was: what will it allow to do
14:28<@Rubidium>"multiple types of "road" with multiple owners on a single tile"
14:29<boekabart>Rubidium: can you give us an example?
14:29<Wolf01>like a step forward for single ways?
14:29<Wolf01>and maybe road waypoints
14:29<@Rubidium>just read the diff
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14:33<Wolf01>i can see TRAM
14:33<Patrick>I SEE DEAD TRAMS
14:33<Patrick>they drive around like normal trams
14:33<Patrick>they don't even know they're dead
14:33<hylje>:o
14:33<@peter1138>ghost trams
14:33[~]hylje drives a tram several times a week
14:34<hylje>s/drive/use/
14:34<@peter1138>fairly large difference :)
14:34<Wolf01>really don't you know the ghost tram?
14:34<Patrick>y
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14:38<Wolf01>the ghost tram: http://tuber.underskog.no/cache/photo/159002_500x500.jpg
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14:50<MiO>it seems to be easy to implement PBS, any coder interested in coop work on a new PBS System ?
14:50<@Bjarni>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWAuLdRYP24 <--- speaking of funny pics/video clips of rails, look at this guy :D
14:50<@Bjarni>don't do that at home
14:51<@Rubidium>MiO: you should start with some (very) good design before even attempting to code it
14:52<MiO>i'm searching for an ottd coder, to give me an short introduction on the ottd design
14:52<hylje>Bjarni: i was expecting something silly involving trains
14:54<@peter1138>design of what? heh
14:54<Patrick>hackykid's work on PBS was hgood
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14:55<@peter1138>oh, the crossing goes down, heh.
14:55<MiO>Rubidium: it's my first day on ottd code and i must say, it is very hard to read. sometimes oop and sometimes kernel mode c style code
14:56<@Rubidium>that's known
14:56<MiO>i have found the section where pre signals are checked for switching to green
14:56<Wolf01>:OOO i just seen a ghost: starcraft 2 is being developed!!!
14:57<hylje>Wolf01: welcome to yesterday
14:57<Scarzzurs>:-)
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14:57<@peter1138>some guy was doing something with pbs last night
14:57<Scarzzurs>looks great though :-)
14:57<Wolf01>"Wolf01 and the world of the past day"
14:57<MiO>now i'm searching for a method to block a path for yapf
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15:03<@Bjarni><hylje> Bjarni: i was expecting something silly involving trains <--- well, it did involve tracks. Did you expect me to record me doing something stupid and put it online?
15:04<@Bjarni>like I ever do anything stupid on the rails :p
15:04<hylje>no, never
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15:09<@Bjarni>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVoesxeETQI&mode=related&search= <-- maybe this is more like you were expecting. Some US cop tries to run over a railroad track, jams his car and then a train arrives
15:09<@Bjarni>I like when he says that the rails were higher than he expected xD
15:11<ln->does that happen in OTTD world, as there's a 90-degree crossing?
15:15<@Bjarni>you can make an X rail crossing in OTTD if you like
15:15|-|alanin changed nick to Alanin
15:17<ln->what i meant was.. how common are 90-degree crossings in real life, as seen on the video?
15:17<Ailure>hmm
15:17<Ailure>there's one not too far from here I think
15:17<Ailure>although only slightly
15:17<Ailure>notice that the gate breaks too
15:18<Ailure>they're made for breaking easily
15:18<hylje>:o
15:18<Ailure>or usually are
15:18<Ailure>incase someone get's stuck inbetween
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15:19<Ailure>unless that was some kind of signal failure
15:19<Ailure>the guy only have himself to blame
15:19<@Bjarni><ln-> what i meant was.. how common are 90-degree crossings in real life, as seen on the video? <-- I have never seen them in real life, but I know that specially tramways, harbour lines and other lines in buildup areas can use them
15:19<boekabart>in Utrecht, NL there is a double one (as in, 2 double tracks cross at approx 90 degrees)
15:20<@Bjarni>however it's preferred to make lines cross at different altitude because it makes the signals way simpler and it's safer
15:20<hylje>ie. bridges?
15:21<@Bjarni>or tunnels
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15:22<@Bjarni>damn, now I can't find it. The other day I found a video of a Japanese station with platforms on both sides of a road crossing. A train comes in, stops on the road and opens the doors next to both platforms, but not the ones on the road. The doors appears to be opened by the train (not the passengers), so it's build into the system to do that o_O
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>gnaa... i hate parents
15:23<boekabart>Eddi|zuHause: move away :)
15:24<@Bjarni>I have seen crossings at the end of platforms with trains in them because they were too long, but in the middle of the platform!!!
15:24<@Bjarni>never :)
15:24<hylje>japs are silly
15:24<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause> gnaa... i hate parents <--- maybe they hate kids
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure they'd find a way to annoy me anway, boekabart :)
15:25<Wolf01>'night
15:25<lolman>Parents are nothing but trouble anyway
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15:25<Eddi|zuHause>like this time... i am away for 4 days
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>and leave the computer running
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>of course my parents go into the room, and close the window
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15:26<Eddi|zuHause>when i come back, there's 50°C in the room, and the computer locked up
15:26<@Bjarni>:p
15:26<lolman>Least it locked up and didn't fry itself to death
15:26<@Bjarni>you should build in auto opening windows based on indoor temperature
15:27<ln->how warm is it outdoors?
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>there's no need for that... the window is open all the time
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>except, when someone else messes around
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15:29<@peter1138>um
15:29<@peter1138>in that video
15:29<@peter1138>why don't they just... er... push?
15:29<boekabart>as title reads: stupid cop
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15:33<Ailure>people don't think propely when paniced
15:33<Ailure>:p
15:34<ln->peter1138: for the same reason americans hardly ever walk?
15:34<ln->+that
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15:36<@peter1138>Ailure, yeah, true
15:37|-|glx|away changed nick to glx
15:37<Ailure>heh
15:37<Ailure>after all
15:38<Ailure>panic is pretty much a state where the brain shuts down and all that it cares about is 'getting away'
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15:38<Ailure>which would work if it was a natural disaster or a dangerous animal, but not as well with thigns that requires thinking :p
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15:48<MiO>performance vs readable code that is the question
15:50<Ailure>comments dosen't cause bad perfomance
15:50<Ailure>;)
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15:52<MiO>but virtual function calls do and i can't find any on ottd :(
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>openttd has lots of function pointers
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>which is a reason why NPF is slow
15:54<MiO>function pointers are not very read freandly
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15:56<MiO>i'm reading the yapf code for some hours now, and can't find a place to block a path for PBS
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15:57<@Rubidium>YAPF is pathfinding, it doesn't control the vehicles
15:58<@Rubidium>you can only give penalties in YAPF, not block a train from moving
15:58<@Rubidium>when you want to block/stop a train, you need to be in train_cmd.cpp
15:59<MiO>i try to block a path for the pathfinding
15:59<MiO>so he will not use blockes tracks for other trains
15:59<MiO>blocked
16:00<MiO>can i give him an "infinite" penalties for the tile ?
16:01<@Rubidium>almost, but that doesn't prevent YAPF from choosing that path when it is the *only* path
16:01<MiO>and that is the problem
16:02<@Rubidium>no
16:02<@Rubidium>it isn't
16:02<@Rubidium>red signals do also not prevent YAPF from choosing that path as "best" path
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>YAPF should not need much modifying for PBS, the actual path reserving must be done outside YAPF
16:03<@Rubidium>the train controller, which is in train_cmd.cpp, does the actually stopping of trains for red signals
16:03<MiO>makes sense
16:03<@peter1138>that's actually good
16:03<@peter1138>you need a penalty, but not too high
16:03<Progman>zoomed completely out looks weird if you stare to much on the seas ;)
16:04<@peter1138>otherwise it might find another route that is stupidly long, just because a little bit is currently reserved
16:04<MiO>so why nobody adds the pbs ?
16:04<@peter1138>nobody's bothered working on it
16:04<@peter1138>i did a tiny little bit that doesn't do much at the moment
16:04<@peter1138>it likes crashing though :D
16:05<MiO>can i read this ?
16:06<MiO>it can help me to understand how ottd works
16:17<MiO>peter1138: can i please take a look at your tiny pbs ?
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>temperature seems to be down to like 30°C now :p
16:18|-|Zr40 [~Zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:18<Eddi|zuHause><ln-> how warm is it outdoors? <- the day wasn't exactly cold either
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16:24<@Bjarni>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7tETeNEaq8&mode=related&search= <--- found the clip where the platform is divided by a road :D
16:24<@Bjarni>sorry that I forgot the name of it :(
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16:27<@Bjarni>no comments... does that mean that everybody left? :(
16:27<@Bjarni>or you don't care :p
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
16:31<Thomas[NL]>both
16:31<@Bjarni>yes by itself is not a very good answer since I asked two questions :p
16:31<Sacro>Bjarni: depends if you stated AND or OR
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>which is exactly the reason why i answered like that :p
16:31<@Bjarni>well, you did add a point to your answer
16:31<@Bjarni>so it's not yes by itself
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16:33<Eddi|zuHause>so... i have some cleaning up to do after being away...
16:33<Sacro>Pis mig i øret!
16:33<@Bjarni>pervert
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro quoting uncyclopedia again?
16:33<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: maybe
16:33<@Bjarni>he is
16:34<@Bjarni>he just said something so perverted that I don't even want to translate it
16:34<Sacro>:( can't find a translator
16:34<@Bjarni>well, I'm not going to translate for you this time
16:35|-|Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has left #openttd [Må jeg smage dine lakrisser]
16:35<@Bjarni>:D
16:35<+glx>and this one?
16:35<@Bjarni>err
16:35<Biff>hehe
16:35<ln->lakriss must have some perverted double meaning...
16:35<@Bjarni>he asked for candy, but I think there is a double meaning to it
16:37<Thomas[NL]>Can I taste some of your licorices?
16:38<ln->that's right
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>it's not hard to understand :(
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>;)
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>i always hit the wrong bracket
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16:40<@Bjarni>I think the double meaning is something uneatable
16:41<@Bjarni>at least he finally figured out that I'm not Dutch
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>or he thinks that is dutch :p
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>it's Sacro, you never know :p
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16:43[~]Sacro yawns and stretches
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16:43<@Bjarni>The bridge with a funny name (Øresundsbroen) connects Denmark with Sweden, allowing Swedes to come and buy cheap alcoholic beverages in Denmark. If you are lucky, you might see Carl XVI Gustaf, the King of Sweden, buying loads of beer for the weekend. <-- LOL
16:44<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: good point
16:44<Patrick>hehehe
16:45<Sacro>Spark mig i nødderne
16:45[~]Sacro learns more dutch
16:45<@Rubidium>@kick Sacro go learn some real Dutch...
16:45|-|Sacro kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [go learn some real Dutch...]
16:46|-|Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
16:46<Sacro>D:
16:46[~]Sacro is disliked
16:46[~]Bjarni kicks Sacro in his groin region as requested
16:46|-|mikk36|away changed nick to mikk36
16:46<Sacro>:o
16:46<Patrick>@calc 3!
16:46<@DorpsGek>Patrick: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (line 1)
16:46<Patrick>what does it use on the backend for calculations?
16:46<Sacro>Rubidium: Ik weet waar je huis woont
16:47<Patrick>@calc help
16:47<@DorpsGek>Patrick: Error: 'help' is not a defined function.
16:47<Sacro>!calc 3!
16:47<_42_>Sacro: (standard_in) 2: parse error;
16:47<Sacro>Patrick: 6
16:47<Patrick>Sacro: I know what three factorial is,I'm wondering what is used on the backend :)
16:48<Sacro>i think !calc uses bc
16:48<Patrick>of either or both bots
16:48<Sacro>i dunno what @calc uses
16:48<@Rubidium>Sacro: ga met een poes spelen
16:48<Sacro>eh?
16:48<Patrick>whoever created DorpsGek
16:49<+glx>DorpsGek is supybot (python)
16:50<@Bjarni>damn. Sacro stopped saying crazy stuff
16:50<@Bjarni>now I lack a reason to kick him
16:50<+glx>do you really need one?
16:50<@Bjarni>@ kick Sacro no reason
16:50<Sacro>:(
16:51<mikk36>aww
16:52<Sacro>Weet je wat ik wil, een opblaaskrokodil... :'(
16:52<ln->!calc define f(x) { if(x==0) return 1; return x*f(x-1); } f(3)
16:52<_42_>ln-: 6;
16:53<ln->see
16:53<Sacro>!calc define f(x) { if(x==0) return 1; return x*f(x+1); } f(3)
16:53<Sacro>mwahahaha
16:53<ln->i think you just killed it
16:53<Sacro>nah, it's just thinking...
16:54<mikk36>lol
16:55<mikk36>u murderer...
16:55<Sacro>!calc 1+1
16:55<_42_>Sacro: 2;
16:55<Sacro>it ignored me
16:56<mikk36>!calc define f(x) { if(x==0) return 1; return x*f(x-1); } f(3)
16:56<_42_>mikk36: 6;
16:56<mikk36>!calc define f(x) { if(x==0) return 1; return x*f(x1); } f(3)
16:56<_42_>mikk36: 3;
16:56<mikk36>!calc define f(x) { if(x==0) return 1; return x*f(x+1); } f(3)
16:56<mikk36>!calc define f(x) { if(x==0) return 1; return x*f(x-1); } f(3)
16:56<_42_>mikk36: 6;
16:56<ln->!calc define f(x) { if(x==0) return 1; return x*f(x-1); } f(2^10)
16:56<_42_>ln-: 541852879605885728307692194468385473800155396353801344448287027068321061207337660373314098413621458671907918845708980753931994165770187368260454133333721939108367528012764993769768292516937891165755680659663747947314518404886677672556125188694335251213677274521963430770133713205796248433128870088436171654690237518390452944732277808402932158722061853806162806063925435310822186848239287130261690914211362251144684713888587881629252104046295315949943900357882
16:56<mikk36>it just couldn't get an answer so it silenced
16:56<ln->_42_: that's not the whole answer
16:56<MiO>4294967296 turns to x == 0 and ca 12 cycles per calc
16:57<ln->MiO: wrong
16:57<@Bjarni>Sacro: now that you want to speak many langauges, then try to say something like you yarinige your sekkusufurendo
16:57<MiO>why ?
16:57<ln->MiO: bc uses arbitrary precision integers, and it won't overflow.
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>IRC messages have a maximum length
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>so it just gets truncated
16:57<MiO>so its endless
16:57<Patrick>it will have hit the 512 limit
16:58<mikk36>(00:53:06) (_42_) ln-: 541852879605885728307692194468385473800155396353801344448287027068321061207337660373314098413621458671907918845708980753931994165770187368260454133333721939108367528012764993769768292516937891165755680659663747947314518404886677672556125188694335251213677274521963430770133713205796248433128870088436171654690237518390452944732277808402932158722061853806162806063925435310822186848239287130261690914211362251144684713888587881
16:58<@Bjarni>Sacro: still here?
16:58<mikk36>that wasn't the limit yet
16:58<Sacro>Bjarni: yes
16:58<@Bjarni><Bjarni> Sacro: now that you want to speak many langauges, then try to say something like you yarinige your sekkusufurendo
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>mikk36: what? it ended with 7882 here
16:59<Sacro>why? :S
16:59<+glx>mikk36: the bot has an internal limit (to not flood)
16:59<mikk36>ahh
16:59<mikk36>k
16:59<@Bjarni>Sacro: because you like to say stuff that you are completely clueless on what they mean :p
16:59<ln->maybe the bot could end its line with "..." when it truncates it
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>[...]587881629252104046295315949943900357882
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>your message was also truncated
17:00<@Bjarni>ln-: then it would need some sort of overflow detection
17:00<@Bjarni>it's a fairly simple bot
17:00<Sacro>Bjarni: je heb een bos hout voor de deur
17:00<ln->simple but honest
17:00<MiO>how does it work ?
17:01<@Bjarni>I'm not sure if it could be made aware of the length of it's output without changing a great deal in it
17:01<MiO>looks like c code that will be compiled and run
17:01<@Bjarni>Sacro: see. You want to say stuff that you don't know what mean
17:01<@Bjarni>you act like a politician >_<
17:01<@Rubidium>MiO: it's bc
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17:02<Eddi|zuHause>i just came from luxemburg, i have enough of people speaking languages i barely understand
17:04<ln->what was in luxemburg?
17:04|-|Progman [~progman@p57a1c7db.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9893 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp road_gui.cpp road_map.h station_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r9892): various small bugs that only act up when using something different than plain roads.
17:04<@Bjarni>the local population, I guess
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>it's a long story :)
17:04<@Bjarni>the night is young
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>i don't feel like telling
17:05<@Bjarni>you met a girl?
17:05<Sacro>girl?
17:05<MiO>pbs is like pre signals but the signal must change his state based on the path of the passing train. if i'm right the signals don't have an callback before an train passes
17:05<ln->Sacro: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girl
17:06<ln->Sacro: also: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman
17:06<Sacro>http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Human-woman.png :o
17:07<@Bjarni>they added that drawing on the satelite that they sent out of the solar system
17:07<@Bjarni>so if some aliens eventually finds it, they can see what we looked like
17:07<+glx>in one pioneer IIRC
17:07<@Bjarni>odds are that we will be long gone before anybody ever finds it
17:08<ln->and when that happens, they'll be offended by the full frontal nudity
17:08<@Bjarni>I saw one of the people behind it on TV. After the point of no return, he started thinking about how it's possible that alien cultures would attack all other cultures and he isn't sure that it was such a good idea after all
17:08<@Bjarni>but we can do nothing about it :p
17:09<Sacro>it might not meet anything
17:09<@Bjarni><ln-> and when that happens, they'll be offended by the full frontal nudity <--- nahh. They will just call us primitive animals
17:09<Sacro>it may just crash into a planet
17:09<Sacro>or fall into a black hole
17:09<@Bjarni>odds are that it will be destroyed before leaving the solar system
17:10<ln->the voyager probe will be found in Star Trek I
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17:10<Sacro>mmm
17:10<@Bjarni>or at least when it reaches the edge of it (solar radiation vs the cosmic radiation line)
17:10<Sacro>ooh, tis almost 50 years till first contact
17:11<@Bjarni>Sacro: well, you will not see it since it happens in Montana and it will be after WWIII
17:11<Sacro>Bjarni: i plan on leaving this crappy country
17:11<Sacro>and seeing the world
17:11<@Bjarni>but I don't think it would be logical to assume that the Star Trek writers can tell when vulcans arrive on earth
17:12<Sacro>why not?
17:12<Sacro>perhaps the vulcans have seen star trek and think its a prophecy
17:13<@Bjarni>logically one would assume that TV series writers would be no better at telling the future than any other human being
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17:13<Sacro>and they are logical...
17:13<@Bjarni>so they show up here to make friends with us after they notice that we insult them
17:14<@Bjarni>better yet: we sneak attack them (in the Enterprise episode... something where everybody backstabs everybody)
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17:17<@Bjarni>hmm
17:18<@Bjarni>why do people close their homepages once they make the URL public?
17:18<@Bjarni>I just tried to follow a link from a readme that says copyright 1999 and the page is not there :(
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17:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9894 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r9892): catenary was drawn on road bridges ;)
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21:04<Pontiac>Is there somewhere in the wiki what the acronyms are, like YAPF?
21:05<Pontiac>Theres also mention of using apt-get for Debian. Whats the command, specifically? I can't find anything with TTD or Transport
21:08<Pontiac>What repositories do I have to add?
21:11<Touqen>Pontiac: well yapf is yet another path finder
21:11<Touqen>if I recall correctly
21:12<Pontiac>heh.. I shoulda guessed that one.
21:12<+glx>NPF=New Path Finder
21:13<Touqen>I think you need to add/enable unstable
21:13<Touqen>or check the debian package search too
21:13<Touqen>l
21:13<Touqen>-tool +website
21:14<Touqen>It's in unstable.
21:14<Touqen>http://packages.debian.org/unstable/games/openttd
21:15<Touqen>And generally if you search for something, it'll probably turn up it's definition.
21:17<Pontiac>Every time I install KUbuntu, I turn on all the repositories. But the search for even tycoon in the Adept manager turns nothing up.
21:17<Pontiac>No mention of what to add/change either.
21:18<Touqen>There must be something you miss then. I'm on ubuntu and apt-cache search turns up openttd for me
21:18<Pontiac>Oh really? Mind sending me your sources.list file?
21:19<Touqen>what version are you on? (I'm still on breezy)
21:19<Pontiac>Edgy for me.
21:20<Touqen>http://pastebin.co.uk/14814
21:21<Pontiac>Tanx
21:23<Pontiac>Same as mine (Other than edgy/breezy calls)
21:24<Touqen>strange
21:24<Pontiac>Yeah
21:30<Pontiac>Interesting. i found on the wiki the aptitude command to get the apps needed to compile, but still nothing specific to apt-get install openttd
21:32<Touqen>What do you mean? What other information do you need for "apt-get install openttd"
21:32<Touqen>For whatever reason it wasn't added to the edgy repository.
21:33<Pontiac>Thats exactly what I mean. When I run apt-get install openttd I'm told it can't find the app.
21:33<Pontiac>But I've found instructions on how to get around that. Just a bunch more work and manual compiling.
21:33<Touqen>Okay so what do you want he wiki to tell you?
21:34<Touqen>Someone has to actually add it to the repository for it to be there. The maintainer of the package didn't.
21:35<Pontiac>I realize someone has to add it. ;) I just happen to be using the wrong distro to get what I want done. This constantly happens with me and Linux OS's. ;)
21:35<Touqen>You could just download the package yourself, and ask dpkg to resolve the dependencies for you.
21:36<Touqen>There shouldn't be much of a problem.
21:36<Pontiac>I'm skeered of linux. {chuckle} Too many panics in my past. But anyways... Next step would probably be RTFM?
21:38<Pontiac>I'll fight with that later. Got some time tomorrow. Caffination wearing off, and GF just made a proposal. {chuckle} L8r gents
21:38<Touqen>later
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23:39<amazon10x>hello
23:39<amazon10x>anybody home?
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23:56<@Rubidium>yes, but 80-90% is still sleeping or preparing to go to work I guess
23:56<hylje>:o
23:56<Jerub>:)
23:57<staniel>sleep is for the weak
23:58<Jerub>or for the week, it depends if you're unemployed.
23:58<staniel>lol, funny you should say that since im currently unemployer
23:59<staniel>err unemployed
23:59<Jerub>:p
---Logclosed Mon May 21 00:00:17 2007