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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-05-21

---Logopened Mon May 21 00:00:17 2007
00:00<staniel>Though Im avoiding sleep for a totally different reason
00:16|-|Tron_ changed nick to Tron
00:42<mikk36>Rubidium, or already at work :)
00:43<mikk36>k, i guess i'm in the 10-20% :)
00:43<mikk36>though i just arrived a minute before u said that
00:44<Jerub>(I've been at work for 6 hours or something now)
00:45<mikk36>you live in australia too
00:45<mikk36>we're in europe
00:45<Jerub>I played openttd for the first time last night. It's a significant improvement over ttd.
00:45<mikk36>ofc :)
00:46<Jerub>I can't wait for the busstop patch to get into the stable build :)
00:47<staniel>heh, the first night I had it (last week) I was up till 5 in the moring
00:47<Jerub>I was playing last night and I got up to 1964 and had 19 million pounds, so I was thinking I was the best ttd player in the world.
00:47<staniel>I found the game by accident and was like, shit, I gotta play taht
00:48<Jerub>then I saw some of the tutorials on advanced signal placement and felt like a rank amateur.
00:48<staniel>Im so terrible for rail line.... I run a line for each train pretty much
00:49<Jerub>it's worth it to learn how to do interesting rail lines.
00:49<staniel>though I had quite the circuit of trains.. about 10 on this one loop, I was impressed till I upgraded the lines
00:49<Jerub>so you can run 4 coal trains on 2 tracks, that kind of thing.
00:50<mikk36>lol @ Jerub
00:50<mikk36>you don't wanna know what guys do in the coop games :P
00:51<Jerub>mikk36: I do wanna know, I'm interested.
00:51<Jerub>mikk36: but as I said, I felt like a rank amateur after seeing some screenshots.
00:52<staniel>openttd just crashed on me
00:52<Jerub>This is the first time I've ever made money using busses too.
00:52<staniel>time to run debug mode and have it run...
00:53<staniel>oh my god, it actually crashed in debug
00:54<mikk36>here's one
00:54<staniel>openttd: tile.h:36: TileHeight: Assertion `tile < MapSize()' failed.
00:55<staniel>train 1000??!?!?!?!
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01:11<Ailure>how long is a gameyear in seconds now
01:12<Smoky555>did somebody know, is it somewhere a patch to allowing more then 2 airports in 1 town?
01:13<Smoky555>OR what i must to change in the source to make this?
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01:19<Jerub>mikk36: Back in my ttd days I had a train network that let me ship oil from one side of the map to the other, with passenger and goods trains running on the same lines.
01:20<Jerub>mikk36: I thought that was totally shithot :(
01:21<Ailure>My TTO networks were lots worse :p
01:21<Ailure>but then since theres only two-way signals it's hard to make advanced networks
01:21<Jerub>TTD had 1 way signals.
01:21<Jerub>but none of the real advanced ones.
01:22<Ailure>eh no
01:22<Ailure>it hadn't
01:22<Ailure>I can confirm as I played around with it
01:22<Ailure>you are thinking of plain TTD now
01:23<Jerub>uh, is 'O' "Original"
01:23<Ailure>which had one-way signals but no pre-signals
01:23<Jerub>because I was saying D for Deluxe.
01:23<Ailure>I misread it as a o
01:23<Ailure>I have two monitors :)
01:23<staniel>how quick do you guys pay off your initial loan?
01:23<Ailure>the second one is a bit more far away and is little fuzzy, so some details isn't too clear
01:24<Jerub>3 years? less?
01:24<Jerub>I don't recall.
01:25<staniel>yeah, thats about the same... I normally get a few trains in there that are gauranteed to make money, and coast a little
01:25<Jerub>My next game I will have to up the skill level of the competitors a fair way.
01:25<Ailure>well I tend to constantly build with the money I have
01:25<Jerub>they're all hideously in debt and I'm working on breaking 20 million
01:25<Ailure>until I earn so much that the loan can be paid back with no problems
01:25<Ailure>that's pretty much fastest way of repaying loan too
01:25<Ailure>since the intrest is so low
01:26<Jerub>yeah, I always end up with a maxloan until I can't spend the money I have.
01:26<staniel>ahh, yeah, if a good subsidy comes up I take the loan back out lol
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01:26<Jerub>I put a pair of docks on a lake for shits and giggles, between two small towns.
01:27<Jerub>and I put a goods trucking service into one of those towns very early on, not thinking about it much.
01:27<Ailure>most subsidies aren't that good D:
01:27<Ailure>usually becuse they consist of missions where you connect two points that is sometimes in the same screen
01:28<Jerub>now the one I was trucking goods into ended up being the biggest town, and I had 10 ferries going between the two before the hovercraft was released.
01:28<Jerub>Ailure: yeah, it'd be good if the subsidy thing was more along the lines of:
01:28<Jerub>"Ship coal to power station X otherwise it will close down"
01:29<staniel>well it can help though
01:29<Ailure>I would prefer if it didn't have limited range
01:29<staniel>in the early stages
01:29<Jerub>playing on a 512x512 map I saw so many industries go out of business because of no supply.
01:29<Ailure>that it randomly takes two stations on the whole map
01:29<Ailure>and that it should give more time for really long distances of course
01:29<Jerub>Ailure: a larger range perhaps.
01:29<Jerub>unlimited is a bit much.
01:29<Ailure>depends on the map
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01:30<Ailure>but it wouldn't be too much for a 256x256 map
01:30<Jerub>:( I didn't know about the rule "Every month you don't ship anything into a town"
01:30<Ailure>might be too much for a 2048x2048 one
01:30<Jerub>No wonder some towns hated me when I had a station that wasn't connected up yet.
01:31<Ailure>I made lines going over 1000 tiles
01:31<Jerub>Ailure: how many years for a return trip?
01:31<Ailure>It's fun when trains reports losses as they take more than one year to make profit within one run
01:32<Ailure>for really huge networks, average in last few years is probably more intresting than last year
01:32<Ailure>unless of courtse the time is multiplied
01:32<Jerub>well, it depends.
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01:32<Jerub>I had a situation where my big station had a gridlock outside it, and I wasn't aware.
01:32<Jerub>on average, the trains were doing alright.
01:32<Jerub>but for a year they were sitting at signals.
01:33<Jerub>I <3 that message in those situations
01:39<staniel>I found that alot of the passenger ones come up again and again
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01:40<Jerub>I was awarded subsidies for passenger transport I was already doing.
01:40<SpComb>that's a win
01:40<staniel>it was great cause you got money for nothing
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01:40<Jerub>SpComb: it would be, if it weren't a bus line.
01:40<SpComb>now you just need to ensure that you transport all available passangers
01:41<staniel>dodododod.... subsidy offered.... (3 seconds pass) dodododod.... subsidy awarded
01:41<Jerub>(iirc, I hit clone vehicle 10 times then just to be sure)
01:41<SpComb>the subsidy isn't on the vehicles or anything, I think it's just on the source town and destination town
01:43<staniel>I hate the whole within 9 blocks of the city center
01:44<staniel>mainly if I have other stations withing the city
01:45<Jerub>staniel: oh, is that why I don't get subsidies when I use air transport sometimes?
01:45<Jerub>hey, are helicopters a good investment?
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01:46<Jerub>I've yet to have a look to see if they're worth it, I just use them sometimes.
01:46<staniel>Jerub: yeah
01:51<staniel>i've had some helicopters that have made me money
01:51<staniel>but its no jet
01:52<Jerub>Yate :)
01:52<Jerub>I love the yate.
01:53<Jerub>Oh, dang, that reminds me, I have the darwin 300 prototyoe and I forgot to build it.
01:53[~]Jerub will have to remember to do that when he gets home.
01:53<Jerub>Whats the earliest you can start playing? I wound the clock back to 1900 and there were no vehicles you could buy.
01:53<staniel>I really should turned on the new ai
01:53<staniel>holy shit, he actually got it
01:54<Jerub>got what?
01:54<staniel>hes train line to connect up
01:54<Jerub>oh, the ai :)
01:54<Jerub>I hate seeing them do stuff like do bridges over their own train lines :(
01:55<Jerub>It makes me want to buy them out and fix it.
01:55<staniel>my ultimate pet peeve is the road bridge over a road
01:55<Jerub>There's one place where the AI is delivering wood to a place I'm shipping (by cargo boat) goods from.
01:55<Jerub>and I feel like buying him out so I can improve his trains.
01:56<Jerub>hey, how do I delete signals form a train line?
01:56<Jerub>control-click doesn't remove, it does the advanced signals.
01:56<staniel>in the train line there, click the signal, then click the bulldozer
01:57<Jerub>oh, I see.
01:57<staniel>the click on the square on the line and it'll remove it
01:57<Jerub>I would always control-click to delete things.
01:57<Jerub>Now I know :)
01:57<@peter1138>or press r
01:58<@peter1138>hotkeys ftw :D
01:58<Jerub>peter1138: verily.
02:02<Smoky555>more then 2 airports in 1 town, did somebody knows something about this?
02:02<staniel>Smoky555: yeah, you've probably pissed off the local authority
02:03<@peter1138>no, it's just not allowed
02:03<staniel>oh I guess a heliport and an airport are considered 2 different things?
02:04<@peter1138>both considered airports
02:05<staniel>ohh maybe I bought a competitor out and thats how I got 2...
02:05<@peter1138>that's fine. you can't have _more_ than 2
02:05<Smoky555>but i want :(
02:06<@peter1138>now that just sounds like a 5 year old
02:06<@peter1138>station_cmd.cpp:1546, if you fancy changing it
02:06<@peter1138>(in trunk, not 0.5.x)
02:07<Smoky555>1 privat airport (near the headquarters), 2 (South and North) Federal airports, 1 National airports :)
02:11<staniel>was the detailed performance rating a new thing with openttd?
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02:20<Smoky555>peter1138 : thanks, it's work :)
02:20<@peter1138>no, "it works", not "it's work"
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04:05<Eddi|zuHause3><Jerub> Whats the earliest you can start playing? I wound the clock back to 1900 and there were no vehicles you could buy. <- some newgrf vehicle sets have trains from 1920, the default set starts like 1935, but i don't remember exactly
04:06<@peter1138>some sets have vehicles before 1920 now
04:06<Eddi|zuHause3>i have not seen any of those yet :)
04:07<hylje>roman vehicle set
04:07<hylje>chariots and oxen
04:09<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, i'd really like to see you playing 2500 years, until trains get available :)
04:09<boekabart>noone ever made an EU or US 'early age' trainset?
04:09<boekabart>starting in 1829 or so?
04:09<boekabart>- and carriages instead of trucks/busses -
04:10<Eddi|zuHause3>boekabart: dates before 1920 don't exist that long
04:10<boekabart>would be interesting, in those days ships were THE de-facto standard for transporting goods.
04:10<boekabart>Hi peter1138
04:10<hylje>Eddi|zuHause3: why not, it would make a extensible road network and big towns for trains to work around
04:10<hylje>and yes, ships
04:16<Eddi|zuHause3>canals were built mostly from the 17th century
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06:47<maddy>Brianetta, is your gameserver still in debugmode?
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07:00[~]peter1138 ponders disabling the new zoom levels
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07:03<boekabart>peter1138: why?
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07:08<boekabart>peter1138: why disable the new zoom levels?
07:08<Ailure>Maybe he don't like blown up pixels?
07:09<boekabart>new zoom levels are only zoom-out, right?
07:11<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, what is the magic svn incantation for getting all log entries of the last 4 days?
07:13<@peter1138>boekabart: because it's harder to get to the 4X out now
07:13<Touqen>`svn help` maybe?
07:14<Eddi|zuHause3>it says: -r "{" DATE "}", but it does not tell me what format the date should be
07:15<boekabart>Eddi|zuHause3: svn log -r {2007-05-20}
07:15<boekabart>that's not 4 days though :)
07:16<boekabart>Eddi|zuHause3: Sorry, it's: svn log -r {2007-05-20}:HEAD
07:16<hylje>lol wut
07:17<hylje>a loco-and-2-pax-wagons train just ran by
07:17<Eddi|zuHause3>now it actually works :)
07:17<Eddi|zuHause3>i tried -r {2007-05-17}, but i got nothing in return
07:17<Thomas[NL]>thats only one day
07:17<boekabart>hylje: Is it 'lol wut' because there is no railway outside?
07:18<Thomas[NL]>svn log -r{2007-05-17}:HEAD
07:19<hylje>nah because it is such a silly train format
07:20<boekabart>a tram or bus would be more efficient, true
07:20<Eddi|zuHause3>Thomas[NL]: yes, i already said that worked, but if i said -r {2007-05-17} i'd expect it to return all commits on that date, but all i got was a line "--------"
07:20<hylje>trains drop gprs connection like crazy
07:21<hylje>i recall an intercity train not letting the connection establish at all
07:21<hylje>high speeds not all good it seems
07:23<ln->i've used gprs all the way from north of parkano to turku on the train
07:23<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, in germany, long distance trains have special "cell phone" wagons
07:24<boekabart>with an in-car antenna??
07:29<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't know what is special about them, i just know they exist
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07:52<boekabart>What is the font in these screenshots?
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07:56<hylje>a newfangled tram
07:56<hylje>i didnt know these vehicles ran this line
07:56<boekabart>no-one knows how they got that font in there?
07:57<hylje>no apparently
07:59<Thomas[NL]>Born Acorn uploaded it
08:01<Thomas[NL]>looks like Arial to me
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08:06<@peter1138>boekabart: probably arial
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08:10<boekabart>Yea, it's arial. Thanks
08:18<@peter1138>what's the status on your two projects?
08:20<boekabart>deepwater+river: I got a bugreport, have to check it out. I'd actually like to propose it te be included without the river thing. Simple and safe.
08:20<boekabart>so just the sealevel
08:21<boekabart>I plan to strip the rivers out and clean it up these days
08:21<boekabart>and then give it to you ;)
08:22<hylje>at least we got sumthin
08:22<boekabart>just the higher sealevel is pretty clean and safe, imho, and adds to the possibilities of the game, without breaking any existing concept.
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08:24<@peter1138>boekabart: ok
08:24<@peter1138>boekabart: i'm happy for rivers to be separate, especially if it involves all that flow stuff...
08:24<hylje>finite amount of water is necessary for rivers?
08:24<boekabart>yeah, the way it's done there is too unsafe and too unrealistic to be included, i think
08:24<@peter1138>hylje: yes
08:24<boekabart>hylje: I think so, yes
08:25<hylje>and to make sure rivers dont actually run out, springs
08:25<@peter1138>water sources, yes
08:25<boekabart>but for that one to work, I need to do a little more work.
08:25<hylje>first things first
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08:38<boekabart>peter1138: are there any plans for, let's call it 'newvehicles' -> adding instead of replacing vehicles?
08:39<@peter1138>i have some, yes
08:39<@peter1138>i had a patch, in fact
08:39<@peter1138>though it's pre-src/ and pre-c++
08:40<@peter1138>i have been doing little bits of work that go towards it though
08:40<boekabart>would it treat existing newgrfs like 'additions' instead of 'replacements?
08:40<@peter1138>probably with some option to remove the default set
08:40<hylje>so we could have several vehicle newgrf sets active?
08:40<hylje>newgrf-ize the default se
08:41<boekabart>do the same plans exist for bridges?
08:41<@peter1138>a different plan, ackcherly
08:41<boekabart>of course, but similar goal?
08:42<boekabart>(I just started using newgrfs these days, that's why I come up with the Q now)
08:42<boekabart>newhouses pretty much does just this for houses, right?
08:43<@peter1138>and newstations did it from the outset too
08:43<@peter1138>as they don't exist in ttd
08:43<boekabart>actually, that was what I thought when I saw that you can just add as many station newggrfs as you like, but with vehicles you get conflicts
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08:45<+glx>that's by design in newgrf specs
08:45<boekabart>-> which were probably designed after ttdpatch limitations?
08:46<hylje>lets just give each grf its own namespace
08:46<hylje>so they can conflict with just itself
08:46<boekabart>.. and I saw some commits this weekend, by Rubidium, will this actually allow selecting roadsets per tile?
08:46<+glx>not roadset but roadtype
08:47<+glx>(normal, tram, whatever)
08:47<@peter1138>tram tracks are a road type ;/
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08:49<boekabart>I see. But that would mean that some vehicles can drive on more than 1 road type? (cars can drive on road_with_tram type, for example). This is unlike the railtype system, right
08:49<hylje>boekabart: diesel and steam trains can drive on elrail and non-elrail
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08:53<boekabart>hylje: a good point you make there :)
08:54<hylje>and really, if you somehow get a train on incompatible track
08:54<hylje>it will run there just fine
08:54<boekabart>try that in real life :)
08:55<hylje>i think ill refrain
08:55<Eddi|zuHause3>there already exists a "compatible rail" concept, which is supposed to be a half-ordering over railtypes (currently "elrail < conventional" is the only non-trivial relation, but that should be extended by things like 'high speed rail'), it should be relatively easy to transfer that concept to roads
08:56<hylje>speed classed rails!
08:58<boekabart>with no level crossings!
08:58<boekabart>and no 45/90 deg corners!
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08:59<boekabart>Brianetta is German??
08:59<hylje>i was thinking of just having an arbitrary amount of rail classes, with diminishing returns
08:59<Eddi|zuHause3>no, he is not
08:59<boekabart>Eddi|zuHause3: don't tell me you aren't either....
08:59<Eddi|zuHause3>but afaik he took some german classes a while ago :)
08:59<hylje>so you could upgrade a piece of rail as much as you like, but the benefit diminishes and costs go up
09:01<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, different rails distinguished by build costs, upkeep costs, decay rates and maximum speed (including curve radius)
09:04<hylje>maybe even have % speed modifier on top of that
09:05<hylje>to make crazy rich players spend all their monies on perpertually upgrading their network
09:05<Eddi|zuHause3>boekabart: i am german :)
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09:07<boekabart>Eddi|zuHause3: well I won't hold you responsible for the 'stau' I was in for hours yesterday on your country's fine freeway A3
09:07<hylje>enjoy your nature expedition on a highway
09:07<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... i was on the A3 yesterday...
09:08<Eddi|zuHause3>there was no "Stau" when i was there :)
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09:09<boekabart>going North or South?
09:09<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, south i believe
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09:11<Eddi|zuHause3>we came from the A1, made a stop in Koblenz, went on "conventional" roads to Montabaur, and left the A3 in Limburg
09:12<boekabart>that is the good piece
09:12<boekabart>nurnberg/fra was the problem
09:12<Eddi|zuHause3>this is funny, within one day, we went on all odd-numbered one-digit routes :)
09:12<Eddi|zuHause3>A1, A3, A5, A7, A9
09:12<Eddi|zuHause3>(in that order)
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09:16<Eddi|zuHause3>all jams we saw were in the opposite direction
09:16<boekabart>very funny
09:17<Eddi|zuHause3>the only slow section was the piece of A7 between "Hattenbacher Dreieck" (A5-A7) and "Kirchheimer Dreieck" (A7-A4), which is only like 4km
09:20<Eddi|zuHause3>for the fact that we effectively went from west to east, we took an awful lot of odd numbered routes :p
09:21<Eddi|zuHause3>(a route gets an odd number, if it goes (mostly) north-south, and an even number if it goes (mostly) east-west
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09:48<peterbrett>Eddi|zuHause3: That's so... European. ;)
09:49<boekabart>peterbrett: did you ever look at a US freeway map?
09:50<peterbrett>boekabart: Fortunately not :D
09:50<peterbrett>I think the system of numbering roads with darts and a blindfold works quite well, thank you very much :D
09:50<boekabart>north/south: odd, east-west, even.
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09:51<boekabart>and the numbering starts in the south with 10, and in the west with 5
09:52<independence>is it bad to transport to much from an industry?
09:52<independence>I read something like that in the forums, that the industry will produce less if you trasport 99% or something like that
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09:53<boekabart>99%? I have never been able to transport more than 88% i think..
09:54<independence>88% then :P
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09:56<Thomas[NL]>independence, this might be interesting
09:57<arex\>When transporting passengers from city to city by train, what's best; Full load/Unload or just Goto?
09:57<@peter1138>i use just goto
09:57<@peter1138>passengers don't like waiting around, or somesuch
09:58<arex\>It's harder to know when you have enough trains when using goto :D
09:59<independence>Thomas[NL]: ya, but I'm playing r9879 from svn, and I think someone said that they changed it recently?
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10:15<Eddi|zuHause3>lots of things change, depends what exactly you mean
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10:17<@peter1138>regarding the amount you pickup, nothing has changed for quite some time
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10:24<boekabart>where did this suddenly come from? ini: error in array 'data\newgrf\dbsetxlw.grf'
10:25<@peter1138>your config is stuffed?
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10:39<kaan>hello all
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10:41<boekabart>peter1138: stuffed? it's the only newgrf in there
10:41<@peter1138>what is the line in the config?
10:42<kaan>i have a suggestion for you guys
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10:42<boekabart>what so what did you mean by stuffed
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10:42<@peter1138>boekabart, broken
10:42<kornerr>where can i get ttd data files?
10:42<@peter1138>kornerr: from... your ttd cd?
10:42<kornerr>i don't have one :P
10:42<@peter1138>ah ha
10:42<kaan>oh, now i cant find it, never mind then
10:43<kaan>oh here it is
10:43<kaan>enum {
10:43<kaan> YEAR_ENGINE_AGING_STOPS = 2050,
10:44<kaan>shouldnt that be following the year that the user specifies as the ending year?
10:44<kaan>its in engine.cpp
10:44<@Rubidium>no, because then in 2100 all maglevs have a reliability of 0
10:45<kaan>oh, thats a good reason :)
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10:47<boekabart>peter1138: I put a # behind the grf name
10:48<boekabart>thought that was allowed
10:49<@peter1138>foo.grf# ?
10:49<@peter1138>#foo.grf is fine...
10:53<kornerr>why won't anyone make some free map?:)
10:53<kornerr>without original ttd
10:54<@peter1138>you mean free graphics?
10:54<kornerr>free map
10:54<kornerr>that files that are on ttd cd
10:54<@peter1138>lots of people make scenarios
10:55<kornerr>so i can play without original ttd?
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10:57<@peter1138>it's the graphics you need
10:57<@peter1138>the map... the map is randomly generated anyway
10:57<kornerr>so i can't play without original one?
10:57<kornerr>awful :(
10:57<boekabart>you can buy it on the net, the original
10:58<kornerr>i wish i had money, lol
10:58<boekabart>sometimes you can even buy a download version for veeeeeeery little money.
10:58<kornerr>how veeery?
10:58<Ammler>boekabart: where?
10:58<boekabart>oh come on get a hint. i'm not saying more
10:59<kornerr>is there any other similar free game?
10:59<@peter1138>ttdpatch? ;-p
10:59<@peter1138>but, oh wait, that needs ttd, heh
10:59<@peter1138>simutrans? if you have a stupidly fast computer
10:59<@peter1138>freetrain if you want something that isn't similar at all
11:00<kornerr>ttd is an economical game, right?:)
11:00<@peter1138>lies, it's a train game :)
11:00<boekabart>... with buses and planes as scenery. eyecandy
11:00<@peter1138>but anyway
11:01<@peter1138>be wary of buying from ebay
11:01<Ammler>boekabart: I mean that serious, is it really possible to buy TTD?
11:01<@peter1138>as there are a lot of, uh, non-original copies
11:01<@peter1138>yes it is
11:01<boekabart>Ammler: no, i meant illegal download. it is very very hard to find original copies nowadays
11:01<kornerr>is there an on-line something like ttd?:)
11:02<kornerr>so illegal
11:02<kornerr>is what i want
11:02<boekabart>a lot of people call it abandonware and offer it for download... it just officially isn't
11:02<boekabart>but that word ^^ will help you so much on your google journey
11:02<+glx>and we won't provide links here
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11:02[~]boekabart is shutting up now
11:02<+glx>but you can ask google
11:02<kornerr>so the word is abandonware?
11:03<@peter1138>is it really that hard to use a search engine?
11:03<kornerr>it's hard to know what to search for
11:03<boekabart>what? there are links on the forum? did not know that
11:03<@peter1138>if i was to search a download for something, i'd start with, er, download
11:04<@peter1138>heh, that page is, guess what, first hit on google for "download ttd"
11:04<@peter1138>maybe that was too imaginative...
11:04<@peter1138>"I really would urge people wanting TTD not to download it illegally since that means Chris Sawyer will miss out on the income he might have recieved should"
11:04<kornerr>i don't search for download word, it always redirects to payware or whatever
11:05<kornerr>links are good
11:05<boekabart>anyway, problem solved
11:05<kornerr>in case, i came here from ReactOS screen shot page, i didn't know it's ttd i've played a while ago
11:06<Ammler>can't believe that it was easier to find this channel than a download page
11:07<boekabart>have fun playing openttd, then
11:08<kornerr>are patches just files?
11:08<kornerr>i don't need windows, right?
11:08<+glx>openttd can run on many platforms
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11:09<kornerr>i mean that patch...
11:09<Ammler>kornerr: download only the graphics
11:09<kornerr>without patch?
11:09<+glx>.patch or .diff?
11:09<Ammler>and ottd of course
11:09<kornerr>no need for that?
11:09<+glx>not needed for openttd
11:10<Ammler>ttdpatch is only for windows
11:10<+glx>Ammler: wrong, there's a dos version
11:10<Ammler>:), ok
11:11<Ammler>thats my original, (only tt)
11:15<Prof_Frink>glx: And it works under wine
11:18<Sionide>is ttdp still going then?
11:18<Sionide>i never saw why there's a need for both projects..
11:20<@peter1138>there isn't
11:20<@peter1138>hence 0.5.2 is the last openttd release
11:20<Sionide>very funny
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11:30<kornerr>thanks for help
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11:33<skidd13>As far as I remember TTDPatch isn't limited to Windows. It is limited to x86.
11:34<@peter1138>there are emulators :D
11:34<Sacro>peter1138: wine is not an emulator
11:35<@peter1138>yes it is
11:35<@peter1138>it emulates windows syscalls
11:36<skidd13>I wan't talking about emulators. I ment native. It's written in assembler so it's limited to the architecture (x86). :)
11:37<@peter1138>hmm, tyan s2915a2nrf
11:37<skidd13>But enougth from that Patch stuff.. We are in #openttd. ;)
11:37<@peter1138>2x socket f mobo
11:37<@peter1138>mmm, ginormous :D
11:37<hylje>socket f?
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11:37<hylje>is dat sum opteron socket
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11:39<@peter1138>hmm, 14 SATA ports on board
11:40<skidd13>There is an assertion "road_map.h:22 RoadTileType GetRoadTileType(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_STREET)' failed.". It happens if I try to remove the roadstop (bot not the road -> shortcut "R")
11:40<@peter1138>2 pci-e x16, 2 pci-e x16 (x8), 2 pci-x, 1 pci
11:40<@peter1138>heh, sli too
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12:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9895 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: assertion when removing roadstop.
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12:33<Ailure>soon r99xx
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12:59<Wolf01>Ailure: like in 1999 we din't know if we are already in the 21st century or still in the 20th, because of ancient date errors, we don't know if we have already passed 10000 because of the first svn crash, or at least, we have, the first svn had 193 revisions if i'm not wrong :P
13:00<Ailure>But isn't that for a relativly long time ago?
13:00<Ailure>then it seems like
13:01<Ailure>revisions comes more often nowadays, but the revisions themself dosen't change as much stuff :p
13:01<@peter1138>Wolf01: for certain values of 193 meaning 975
13:03<@peter1138>i am assuming, of course, that the first svn was really the first svn
13:04<ln->why didn't someone push the revision back to 975 when importing the stuff to the new svn?
13:04<@peter1138>because life's too short?
13:04<Wolf01>there is the 9 ;P
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13:42<guru3>Anyone know why my make of 0.5.1 from source is saying version 0.4.8 in the title window?
13:42<@Rubidium>because you didn't make 0.5.1
13:42<@Rubidium>*or* you are running the wrong binary
13:42<guru3>yeah... stupid question on my part
13:42<guru3>forgot ./
13:43<guru3>so you know, don't mind me
13:43<guru3>i'm off in crazy land
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14:18<hylje>monty python is silly
14:18<peterbrett>O RLY?
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14:20<hylje>YES, REALLY!
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14:24<mikk36>2 extra zoom-out levels
14:24<mikk36>this rocks
14:25<Wolf01>and rocks are a little heavy for old pc
14:25<mikk36>i aint got an old pc :)
14:29<Wolf01>have you ever tried with a 2k*2k enough crowded map?
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14:30<mikk36>i got a buggie again :)
14:32<mikk36> description: keep new vehicles window open and then enable wagon speed limits
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14:35<mikk36>argh, now remove signals button greyed itself automatically, but is still enabled
14:35<mikk36>signal button still down
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14:39<@peter1138>stupid galleries that 'scale down' but make image file sizes way way larger
14:40<@peter1138>and, heh, changing wagon speed limits during a game is a bad idea
14:40<@peter1138>especially on a server (desyncs ahoy)
14:41<Wolf01>i use directly 1024*768 images for thumbnails on my site :P
14:41<@peter1138>640x487 is hardly a thumbnail
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14:42<@peter1138>and at 446KB is 1.5x larger than the original at 298KB...
14:42<@peter1138>ne'r mind
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14:51<mikk36>crash :)
14:51<mikk36>peter1138, it's a single player game anyway
14:51<mikk36>and, peter1138, u can click on it to get full pi
14:52<@peter1138>yes, after wasting time on the 'small' version :p
14:52<mikk36>yeh, noticed myself too now
14:52<mikk36>almost twice the size
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14:52<mikk36>but i have those 640x480's for default for huge 1600x1200+ renders
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14:53<Wolf01>sacro, i have a new game for you
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14:54<mikk36>lol Wolf01
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14:54<Kjetil>Hi. I am back :P
14:55<Wolf01>hi, welcome back
14:55[~]Kjetil notices that bjarni is absent
14:56<Wolf01> lol
14:57<+glx>mikk36: what were you doing when it happened?
14:57<mikk36>uhm, almost nothing
14:57<mikk36>trying to recreate
14:58<mikk36>i have a savegame right before it
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14:59<mikk36>hmh, doesn't happen
14:59<mikk36>i was... basicly doing nothing
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14:59<mikk36>just watching things happening
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15:28<@Bjarni>hi Kjetil
15:28<@Bjarni>nice to see you again :)
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15:30<@Bjarni>looks like this channel is playing a quiet game right now
15:30<@Bjarni>so be it
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15:49<@Bjarni>lol. I just read a nice signature on a (non-OTTD) forum. Translated it says "Don't watch porno while you talk on skype - people can hear it"
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15:56<mikk36>heh, nice error i got from printer :)
15:56<mikk36>Electromagnetic clutch error, please shut down printer and then resume. documents will continue to print after you switch printer on.
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15:58<@Bjarni>"please shut down printer and then resume" <-- didn't it skip the turn on again part? :D
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16:02<Kjetil>So.. any exiting new stuff ?
16:03<jlaw>hi, i am trying to get openttd to run in ubuntu feisty 64 dchrooted 32 bit system. when i start it i hear the first sound but it exits without any error message. is ther a known issue with connecting to xserver or something?
16:04<Kjetil>tried -vo null ?
16:05<jlaw>behaves exactly as mentioned, sdl gives an error and the other "seemingly" works (sound is present) there is some positive console output about generating map, but no gui
16:05<mikk36>Bjarni, sry, i didn't remember what exactly was written
16:05<mikk36>but the error itself was fun, some device inside me has given error, please restart me :P
16:10<guru3>How about earning interest on money stored in the bank?
16:10<Eddi|zuHause3>jlaw: tried "-d 1" or something?
16:11<guru3>jlaw: also tried running xhost local:localhost ?
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16:16<ln->there's no 64-bit port?
16:16<jlaw>guru3, other programs like opera work flawless out of th dchrooted system ... but i'll give it a try
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16:19<Eddi|zuHause3>there are win64 builds, so with the correct librarys it should compile and run on 64 bit linux systems
16:23<guru3>I just compiled it on my 64-bit gentoo myself and it's running fine.
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16:24<Sleepie>question to the devs: the new zoom levels are really a great improvement, are there any plans to implement something similar for the minimap?
16:25<Eddi|zuHause3>minimap zoom is planned
16:26<Eddi|zuHause3>but it's ages ago that i have seen any progress on that
16:27<@Rubidium>Sleepie: if you can fix the bugs with it...
16:28<@Rubidium>there's a patch in the tracker that is still a little buggy
16:28<Sleepie>hmm I think you which one you mean
16:28<Sleepie>the one I mentioned in my suggestions thread some weeks ago
16:29<@Rubidium>don't know
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16:30<Sleepie>or did you mean something different?
16:31<@Rubidium>yes that one
16:32<Sleepie>hmm, I'm in too much projects atm
16:33<Sleepie>perhaps in a month or two I'll have a little time to look into it
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16:34<Sleepie>Are there further infos about it that are not mentioned in the flyspray entry?
16:36<@Rubidium>not really, only that it's pre C++, so you need to mess a little with the patch file itself to get it applied
16:38<Sleepie>of course, it's also very outdated (Nov. 06) so I guess many other things have changed since the last update
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16:43<@Rubidium>Sleepie: to that particular piece of code probably not more than the merge of C++
16:45<Sleepie>Rubidium: even better then :) but as I said very low priority on my todolist atm ;)
16:46<Eddi|zuHause3>some minimap stuff was affected by newindustries stuff, but i don't know if that part is already in trunk, or if it will have any influence
16:48<Sleepie>that was probably only more industry icons, because with new industries we will have more of them
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16:49<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: that doesn't affect the scaling of the inner window
16:52<Sleepie>Rubidium: Exist more information sources about the code internals besides the code itself and the wiki?
16:52|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^zZz
16:52<@Rubidium>not really
16:52<@Rubidium>unless you count some pieces of TTDP that might give you inspiration
16:53<Eddi|zuHause3>the commit messages might also give you hints
16:53<Sleepie>no prob it was just to be sure I haven't overlooked something ;)
16:54<@Rubidium>and the wiki doesn't talk about the 'deep' internals
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16:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9897 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: prepare the toolbar for more road types.
16:59<Sleepie>When I'm on it I'll ask my question here if don't understand something in the code ;)
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17:13<@Bjarni> is dangerous
17:13<@Bjarni>when it's working, it steals your time
17:13<@Bjarni>now it decided to save me from doing that by crashing firefox when entering
17:14<ln->you're using firefox?
17:14|-|TinoM| [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:14<@Bjarni><ln-> you're using firefox? <-- I was a moment ago
17:16<totalwormage><ln-> i thought 'that tag i don't know'
17:16<@Bjarni>Sacro: every time I tried something else than the command line interface for SVN I ended up with something unexpected
17:16<@Bjarni>like a slowdown
17:17<@Bjarni>CLI access to svn is reliable, fast and not a hassle to set up
17:17<ln->have i said something like that?
17:17<@Bjarni> <Bjarni> Sacro:
17:18<@Bjarni>ln-: I'm not talking to you about SVN ;)
17:18<Sacro><Bjarni> <Bjarni> Sacro:
17:18<@Bjarni>even though you are welcome to read it anyway
17:18<@Bjarni><Sacro> <Bjarni> <Bjarni> Sacro: <-- this is getting boring :p
17:18<Sacro><Bjarni> <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Bjarni> Sacro: <-- this is getting boring :p <-- true
17:19<@Bjarni><Sacro> <Bjarni> <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Bjarni> Sacro: <-- this is getting boring :p <-- true <--- next person to do that will be kicked
17:19<Eddi|zuHause3><Bjarni> <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Bjarni> Sacro: <-- this is getting boring :p <-- true <--- next person to do that will be kicked <<-- yes please :p
17:19<@Rubidium>@kick Eddi|zuHause3 as requested
17:19|-|Eddi|zuHause3 kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [as requested]
17:19<@Bjarni>@kick Sacro you know why
17:20<Sacro><Eddi|zuHause3>> <Bjarni> <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Bjarni> Sacro: <-- this is getting boring :p <-- true <--- next person to do that will be kicked <<-- yes please :p <-- AND ME :D
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17:20<@Rubidium>@kick Sacro as requested
17:20|-|Sacro kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [as requested]
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17:20<Sacro>@kick Bjarni
17:20|-|Sacro kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [manual activation never failed]
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17:20<Sacro> how worrying
17:23<Sacro>i wonder what happens if you unplug it
17:23[~]Bjarni wonders if Sacro will be more careful not to puncture the ground in the future
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17:27<@Bjarni> <--- heh. Doesn't sound Japanese at all :P
17:31<Jerub>how does "Transfer" work in terms of the money you receive?
17:32<Jerub>I set up a train from a coal mine to a dock, and then transported the coal by ship to a power station.
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17:32<Jerub>So I seemed to receive the money for transporting the coal to the docks as soon as it got there.
17:32<@Bjarni>no you don't
17:33<@Rubidium>Jerub: that's only virtual money so the train doesn't get a negative profit
17:33<Jerub>oh, i see.
17:33<@Bjarni>you get virtual money on the vehicle income
17:33<Jerub>that makes sense.
17:33<@Rubidium>you are finally paid when the coal has been delivered
17:33<@Bjarni>but you will not get real money before the cargo reaches it's real destination
17:33<Jerub>This isn't noted on the wiki.
17:33<@Bjarni>maybe it looks better if only one of us tries to explain this at any given time :)
17:34<@Bjarni>multiplexing two explanations for the same thing didn't look professional :p
17:34<Jerub>shrug :p
17:34<Jerub>I op over in #python, sometimes things get explained 4 ways.
17:34<Jerub>and sometimes nearly 2 explanations are actually correct.
17:36<@Bjarni>you mean you get two wrong explanations as well?
17:36<@Bjarni>lol, I just opened X11 by mistake xD
17:38<@Rubidium>Bjarni: you were just slow ;)
17:39<Sacro> hahahaha
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17:46<@Bjarni>Sacro: either it's not funny or I'm missing the point :/
17:47<Sacro>Bjarni: the latter
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17:47<@Rubidium>Bjarni: you totally missed that Sacro thinks *everything* is funny
17:50<Jerub>The thing that I was thinking this morning was "It would be nice if I could tell a train to go upgrade itsel"
17:51<@Rubidium>yeah, Bjarni had the same idea ago I believe ;)
17:53<Jerub>Also with ships.
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17:53<Jerub>going from ferries to hovercraft was annoying.
17:54<@Bjarni>. . .
17:54<Jerub>(I love how boats don't collide with each other, I can move 2000 people a month from a city using hovercraft)
17:55<@Bjarni>I think I added this in 0.3.6, but it might be even older than that
17:55<Jerub>okay, awesome.
17:57<@Bjarni>I think so too
17:57<Kjetil>Has depot replace been implemented ?
17:57<Kjetil>*blows the dust of his old patch*
17:57<@Bjarni>why was it that I stopped looking at that? :)
17:58<Jerub>I haven't gone to monorail or maglev yet.
17:58<Jerub>Is it hard to move a reasonable sized network to monorail?
17:58<@Bjarni>I just wondered. It's called monorail when there is one rail. Is normal railroad tracks called dualrail?
17:59<Jerub>Bjarni: When I talk about tracks I usually talk about its gauge.
17:59<Kjetil>*goes to the corner and starts crying* "It has hardcoded values" :/
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17:59<Jerub>I live in Qld, Australia, most of our trains here are narrowgauge.
18:00<Jerub>But you can't talk about monorail in terms of its gauge.
18:00<Jerub>having only 1 rail and all :p
18:01<@Bjarni>then what do you call the width of the track...
18:01<Kjetil>1AWG track
18:01<@Bjarni>"track width"?
18:02<@Bjarni> <Jerub> Bjarni: When I talk about tracks I usually talk about its gauge. <--- I usually refer to a track as "a track". We only use standard gauge here
18:03<@Bjarni>when talking about a different gauge, then the gauge is indicated and it's usually a far away place as well
18:03<@Bjarni>or a closed railroad
18:03<@Bjarni><Kjetil> *goes to the corner and starts crying* "It has hardcoded values" :/ <--- that's stupid. Beat up the coder :p
18:04<Kjetil>*finds the cluebat and beats the living crap out of a younger version of himself*
18:05<Jerub>Bjarni: we have too many different gauges :(
18:05<@Bjarni>that's cruel
18:05<@Bjarni>you beat up your younger brother?
18:06<Kjetil>Nah.. I used a timemachine and made sure that I wouldn't write such horrible code
18:06<@Bjarni><Jerub> Bjarni: we have too many different gauges :( <-- do as we did. Use 3 rail systems for a while and only buy/build standard gauge rolling stock. Eventually you will get rid of the narrow gauge shit
18:07<Jerub>Bjarni: hehehe, one problem is that the best run and most timely and profitable train company in australia is narrow gauge.
18:07<@Bjarni>every single rail line in the country uses the same gauge and are connected (with the exception of a few closed ones used for vintage operation only)
18:08<Jerub>our interstate and longdistance rail is on standard gauge I think.
18:08<@Bjarni><Jerub> Bjarni: hehehe, one problem is that the best run and most timely and profitable train company in australia is narrow gauge. <-- interesting. Japanese railroads are all narrow gauge and they are never late. The only exception is Shinkansen, which uses standard gauge. However it's never late either
18:09<Jerub>I think it's got more to do with who runs the railways than the railways themselves, but yeah, it's interesting.
18:09<@Bjarni>maybe we picked the wrong gauge when selecting the standard one. If we picked another one, the trains would not be late anymore
18:09<@Bjarni>somehow I don't think that's the case
18:11<@Bjarni> <-- even though the trains are on time, I wouldn't like so crowded trains :/
18:13<@Bjarni>I like how people keep trying to get in when they try to close the doors and the railroad staff pushes people inside
18:13<@Bjarni>it's fun as long as you don't have to be on the train :p
18:13<Jerub>I used to live in hong kong.
18:13<Eddi|zuHause3><Bjarni> when talking about a different gauge, then the gauge is indicated and it's usually a far away place as well <- a lot of routes in the mountains of germany are narrow gauge, usually when sharp turns were required
18:13<@Bjarni>I know
18:13<Jerub>hk trains simply don't have timetables, they just run as many as are needed.
18:14<Eddi|zuHause3>also, about half the tram systems are narrow gauge
18:14<Jerub>hong kong.
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18:16<Jerub>no idea about the gauge there though.
18:16<@Bjarni>well, running without a timetable will only work with frequent departures and one way traffic on each track
18:17<Jerub>oh, there might have been a timetable internally, but there wasn't one that a member of the public could read.
18:17<Jerub>you just go to the station and get on the next train.
18:17<Jerub>it's 98% underground too.
18:18<Jerub>so yeah, 1 way traffic on the tracks, that kind of thing.
18:18<@Bjarni>In Hong Kong, the Mass Transit Railway uses 1432 mm gauge, 3 mm narrower than standard gauge. <-- taken from wikipedia
18:18<Jerub>3mm narrower than standard gauge.
18:18<@Bjarni>you can easily fit a 1435 mm train there
18:18<Jerub>always gotta be different.
18:18[~]Jerub ponders.
18:18<@Bjarni>it will fit
18:19<Jerub>I wonder how hard a 'subway' station would be in openttd.
18:19<+glx>very hard
18:19<+glx>the map doesn't support it
18:19<@Bjarni>we lack a decent way to allocate memory for it
18:19<Jerub>Just thinking about it. we already have tunnels.
18:20<+glx>fake tunnels indeed
18:20<Jerub>So if you had a 'station' which was aboveground but could only be put there when a tunnel was underneath.
18:20<Jerub>then a train could stop there.
18:20<+glx>tunnels are not real in openttd
18:22<Eddi|zuHause3>you'd need submaps or stacked tiles for that
18:22<@Bjarni>I like how trains travelling from Russia to China stops to replace bogies to continue on a new gauge
18:24<Jerub>I just had an entirely evil idea.
18:25<Jerub>What if you made subways invisible flying trains.
18:25<@Bjarni>you are right
18:25<@Bjarni>that's an evil idea
18:25<@Bjarni>it wouldn't work though
18:26<@Bjarni>Japan converted its British-derived buffer and chain couplings to the American Janney coupling over a period of a few days in the early 1920s, after considerable preparation. <--- wow. That was quick
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19:26<UndernotBuilder>well I don't mind about higher sea/river levels because with an grf I can change the canals graphics for making them look as ttdpatch rivers
19:27<UndernotBuilder>or a patch for an aditional type of canals that can be built only in scenario editor :)
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19:29<UndernotBuilder>that would be a nice patch for a starter like me but my projects generally end in the nothing
19:31<staniel|home>I'd like to be able to build a dock on the canal... is that possible?
19:33<Jerub>staniel|home: I don't think so, not at the moment.
19:33<UndernotBuilder>also we should try to steal ttdp's aquaducts
19:34<Jerub>staniel|home: I do one of two things. either I flatten the land to sea level all the way to the destination, flattening it at the coastline last.
19:34<Jerub>or, I build a train statioh that connects with the dock to extend its catchment area.
19:35<Jerub>oh, right, UndernotBuilder is talking about a patch..
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19:46<Jerub>It kinda feels like cheating to use hovercraft for passenger transport.
19:47<staniel|home>Jerub: how so?
19:47<Jerub>you don't have to lay any track, there's no collisions for ships so they can all just run straight through each other.
19:48<Jerub>I transport over 2000 passengers a month via hovercraft from a single city with a single dock.
19:49<Jerub>I think it's over 2000.
19:51<Jerub>it's a huge number, regardless.
19:52<Jerub>and it makes the city grow like buggery.
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19:55<staniel|desktop>gah! POS router!
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20:02<Jerub>staniel: do you ever use ships?
20:02<staniel>yeah, oil tankers
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20:46<Jerub>staniel: is that it?
20:47<staniel>for ships? yeah
20:48<Jerub>interesithg. I might have to write up my experiments with ships.
20:49<staniel>in TTD I think I might have used hovercraft, but not to often
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20:49<staniel>I prefer trians for cargo and planes for passenger/mail
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20:50<Jerub>I really need to sit down with a pad and paper and work out how much my ships actually cost me.
20:50<staniel>just cause of speed, ships and road vehicles are slow
20:50<staniel>plus, I hardly break even with road vehicles really
20:51<Jerub>yeah, road vehicles are insanely slow.
20:51<Jerub>they're only useful in very limited circumstances. like if you want some towns to grow or something.
20:52<Jerub>just setting up a bus service between 4-6 towns early on in the game is enough to turn those into huge cities by 1970.
20:52<staniel>I guess buses aren't really there for money grab then, just to increase the city to allow for other services to enter that city
20:53<staniel>though I did notice in this game the buses I had running between 2 cities greatly expanded them...
20:53<staniel>they kinda meshed together lol
20:53<Jerub>I make about 200k/year off my road at the moment, and about 3m/year off my trains.
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20:55<staniel|home>damn router!!!
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21:02<Jerub>I was actually surprised how much my road vehicles netted me.
21:03<Jerub>I occasionally go and see my bus stations and clone vehicles if there were more than 1000 passengers waiting.
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21:12<staniel|home>I do that with planes
21:12<staniel|home>though that tends to mess you over later if you need to upgrade the airport
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22:12<Jerub>I'm tempted to get openttd running on the olpc.
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22:20<Jerub>Is there a free tileset?
22:20<Jerub>Like, is it possible to distribute openttd totally free without ever needing the grf's from the original game?
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22:21<Jerub>Sacro^: What's missing/needed?
22:22<Sacro^>Jerub: check the wiki
22:23<Jerub>what do I look for?
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22:26<Jerub>I mean, I see the GRF stuff, but I don't see a List of Missing Graphics or something.
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22:35<Jerub>I see now.
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23:29<staniel|desktop>wow, those 'disasters' can happen more then once
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---Logclosed Tue May 22 00:00:52 2007